Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
On 12.03.15 14:46, richsh...@comcast.net wrote: Just a reminder, using this kind of equipment in the US does require a license from the FCC! It is a radio transmitter and as such it does require compliance with the rules. Had a furniture factory that used RF heating for setting glue, worked great, BTW, but there it was, an FCC station license right on the side of the power supply. Back in the days of analogue telecommunications, when telephone trunks were FDM on coax, there was a small furniture factory a few blocks from our design lab. On days when he arced his up, the needles on our level meters would jump and stay up for the duration of their heating cycle. We had to make our measurements in between workpieces in their factory. The digital revolution has a lot going for it. Erik -- The world is spending half a trillion dollars on fossil fuel subsidies every year, according to a new report. The Overseas Development Institute (ODI) says rich countries are spending seven times more supporting coal, oil and gas than they are on helping poorer nations fight climate change. - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24833153 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
Thanks to Leonardo and everyone else that replied. While I have a fair grasp of the physics associated with induction heating, CLEARLY I lack enough electronics knowledge to be anything more than dangerous. :) I think I'll push this project to the bottom of the list and put studying electronics above it. Thanks again to everyone who replied. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 03/11/2015 08:23 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-11 21:16 GMT-03:00 rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net: Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking about building a little one for my home shop, so I'm interested how they do it in the real world. If I understand correctly, you're running DC through the coil, and it oscillates from 0 amps to 40 amps between at a chosen frequency between 10-30 kHz. I'm surprised it's DC, for some reason I assumed it would be AC. Thanks again for the reply. Good luck on the project. Hello Ray. Indeed what's circulating through the coil is AC, I just gave you the aproximate voltage that the machine uses on the input of the inverter. The machine uses a IGBT transistors to switch a square wave AC and then feed this to an LC tank to generate a sine wave. I really don't know how much voltage is on the coil but I assume is a little one, because there, the current rises because of the transformation ratio. We didn't built it but we were experimenting with induction heating, and I can tell you the tricky part it's how to design the circuit for fire the IGBTs. There are some very good references on the internet if you want to build a heater that's not that big. This one has a maximum output power of 60 KW. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
I've used that drive before and I am sure it can do 0-10VDC. I'm not sure about +/- 10VDC with direction reversal. I think I remember looking at the drive you used before do the positioning and I believe it was much more capable than the Powerflex 40 drive. Didn't you use that other drive along with an encoder for full vector control??Without an encoder the drive is guessing at where the motor rotor is. I think that positioning with sensorless vector drive will be very difficult unless your positioning requirements are very loose. Dave On 3/10/2015 11:37 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-10 13:27 GMT-03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: You can set up the HAL so that the output is 0-10V + direction relays if necessary. That is how my VFD is conrtrolled (by a 7i49) Hello andy and thanks for your answer! I forgot to tell that I'm going to use this in servo mode for positioning, like I already did with another AC motor, so I need the change in direction of rotation to be really fast, that's why I don't think I can use relays for the job. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
Just a reminder, using this kind of equipment in the US does require a license from the FCC! It is a radio transmitter and as such it does require compliance with the rules. Had a furniture factory that used RF heating for setting glue, worked great, BTW, but there it was, an FCC station license right on the side of the power supply. - Original Message - From: emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2015 5:59:36 AM Subject: Emc-users Digest, Vol 107, Issue 26 Send Emc-users mailing list submissions to emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net You can reach the person managing the list at emc-users-ow...@lists.sourceforge.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of Emc-users digest... Today's Topics: 1. Re: OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question (rayj) 2. Re: Best way to get Debian (Gerhard Pircher) 3. Re: Best way to get Debian (Marius Liebenberg) 4. Re: OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question (andy pugh) 5. Re: OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question (Mark Wendt) 6. Re: Best way to get Debian (Peter C. Wallace) -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 03:16:07 -0500 From: rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: 55014b47.4020...@frontiernet.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Thanks to Leonardo and everyone else that replied. While I have a fair grasp of the physics associated with induction heating, CLEARLY I lack enough electronics knowledge to be anything more than dangerous. :) I think I'll push this project to the bottom of the list and put studying electronics above it. Thanks again to everyone who replied. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 03/11/2015 08:23 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-11 21:16 GMT-03:00 rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net: Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking about building a little one for my home shop, so I'm interested how they do it in the real world. If I understand correctly, you're running DC through the coil, and it oscillates from 0 amps to 40 amps between at a chosen frequency between 10-30 kHz. I'm surprised it's DC, for some reason I assumed it would be AC. Thanks again for the reply. Good luck on the project. Hello Ray. Indeed what's circulating through the coil is AC, I just gave you the aproximate voltage that the machine uses on the input of the inverter. The machine uses a IGBT transistors to switch a square wave AC and then feed this to an LC tank to generate a sine wave. I really don't know how much voltage is on the coil but I assume is a little one, because there, the current rises because of the transformation ratio. We didn't built it but we were experimenting with induction heating, and I can tell you the tricky part it's how to design the circuit for fire the IGBTs. There are some very good references on the internet if you want to build a heater that's not that big. This one has a maximum output power of 60 KW. -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:19:29 +0100 From: Gerhard Pircher gerhard_pirc...@gmx.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Best way to get Debian To: Marius Liebenberg mar...@mastercut.co.za, Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID: 55014c11.6020...@gmx.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Am 2015-03-12 um 07:10 schrieb Marius Liebenberg: BTW heres approximately whats needed to make a current preemt-rt kernel cd ~ mkdir rtlinux cd rtlinux wget ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/linux-3.18.9.tar.xz wget https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/3.18/patch-3.18.9-rt4.patch.gz tar -xpf linux-3.18.9.tar.xz gunzip patch-3.18.9-rt4.patch.gz cp patch-3.18.9-rt4.patch linux-3.18.9 cd linux-3.18.9 cat patch-3.18.9-rt4.patch | patch -p1 make menuconfig make sudo make modules_install sudo make install If you accept menuconfigs defaults you should get a working preemt-rt kernel (this will however make a kernel that supports
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
On 12 March 2015 at 00:16, rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net wrote: Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking about building a little one for my home shop, so I'm interested how they do it in the real world. This page is very interesting and informative: http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/indheat.html I think that somewhere I found a full schematic for a circuit that handles the sequencing etc, but I rather suspect that the way to do it now would be with an Arduino or other simple-to-program microprocessor. I have started to find that nearly any electrical circuit can most easily be realised with a £7 Arduino Nano rather than matrix board and components. I got as far as buying most of the components, and also have a suitable frequency generator chip. But then something more interesting came along. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 6:27 AM, andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com wrote: snippage I got as far as buying most of the components, and also have a suitable frequency generator chip. But then something more interesting came along. -- atp Oh look! A squirrel! ;-) Sorry Andy, couldn't help myself... Mark -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-11 13:42 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: I re-controlled one of those in the past but we simply rotated the part around the Z axis as the part moved downward through the coil in the Z direction. But then all of our parts were round. Well this machine was originally designed to heat treat camshafts of about 6 mm of lift, also the lobes were of about 42 mm of diameter so for induction heating it's pretty round and there's no need for the coil to be shaped around the lobe. So the reduction was only meant to decrease the speed of the motor, and the part turned around at a constant speed. Now we have several types of lobes, we go from 6 mm to 12 mm of lift, and the ones that have that amount of lift tend to overheat quickly on the high point and less on the rest of the lobe. This causes a pretty uneven hardening. Its a really quick way to heat treat a part! Indeed, it's beautiful to see how in 7 seconds the part reaches glowing orange. Here's a video of the heater working, I don't recall if I already show this to you guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmW3_c0-4Oc -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
I re-controlled one of those in the past but we simply rotated the part around the Z axis as the part moved downward through the coil in the Z direction. But then all of our parts were round. Its a really quick way to heat treat a part! Dave On 3/11/2015 8:30 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-11 6:07 GMT-03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: It looks a lot better than it did, but I still can't tell what it is... It's a heat treating machine for shafts, we'll be using it mostly on camshafts. The part it's holded between centers and the coil and shower move up and down to heat a certain place of the part. In our case, it's going to be used for the lobes of the cam. It's good to have a worm and gear reduction, because the coils for the lobes with more lift are better if they have the shape of the lobe, to heat more uniformly the lobe. For thar we need to rotate the camshaft a certain amount of degrees depending on the lobe to heat. Here some other pics. There you can see the reduction and the shower and where the coil is going to be plugged. http://postimg.org/image/th21yguw5/ http://postimg.org/image/4mik4ea1x/ --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
Looks like a good process. What frequency,voltage and amperage are you using? TIA Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 03/11/2015 11:39 AM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-11 13:42 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: I re-controlled one of those in the past but we simply rotated the part around the Z axis as the part moved downward through the coil in the Z direction. But then all of our parts were round. Well this machine was originally designed to heat treat camshafts of about 6 mm of lift, also the lobes were of about 42 mm of diameter so for induction heating it's pretty round and there's no need for the coil to be shaped around the lobe. So the reduction was only meant to decrease the speed of the motor, and the part turned around at a constant speed. Now we have several types of lobes, we go from 6 mm to 12 mm of lift, and the ones that have that amount of lift tend to overheat quickly on the high point and less on the rest of the lobe. This causes a pretty uneven hardening. Its a really quick way to heat treat a part! Indeed, it's beautiful to see how in 7 seconds the part reaches glowing orange. Here's a video of the heater working, I don't recall if I already show this to you guys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmW3_c0-4Oc -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-11 15:08 GMT-03:00 rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net: Looks like a good process. What frequency,voltage and amperage are you using? The heater runs up to 97 amps (per phase) and depending on the lobe to heat we're using it with more or less current. The minimum we're using is about 40 amps. Voltage is about 650 v when rectified if I'm not wrong because it takes the three phase 380 v from the line. Frequency goes from a minimum of 10 Khz to a maximum of 30 Khz depending on the coil, because it has a phase locked loop to mantain the resonance at all times. Frequency is not that critical, since you can play with the amount of power and the heating time to change the depth and the value of the hardness to reach. Also an exquisite way of controlling that is to vary the temperature of the water to cool the part. -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
It *IS* AC. 10-30kHz AC. And 40A isn't going to cut it. I think Leonardo is mentioning 97A/phase MAINS input. Compute the input power draw. Is typ goes through a high freq stepdown transformer so its only a couple volts AC and hundreds (thousands?) of amps. Takes many many kJ of energy to make that much iron glow in seconds. Simple physics. I used to work w/ a girl (20yrs ago) who did her phd in induction heating and the resonant control of it. The coils are often copper tubing and water cooled. Its very cool to watch work. On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:16 PM, rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net wrote: Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking about building a little one for my home shop, so I'm interested how they do it in the real world. If I understand correctly, you're running DC through the coil, and it oscillates from 0 amps to 40 amps between at a chosen frequency between 10-30 kHz. I'm surprised it's DC, for some reason I assumed it would be AC. Thanks again for the reply. Good luck on the project. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 03/11/2015 01:24 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-11 15:08 GMT-03:00 rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net: Looks like a good process. What frequency,voltage and amperage are you using? The heater runs up to 97 amps (per phase) and depending on the lobe to heat we're using it with more or less current. The minimum we're using is about 40 amps. Voltage is about 650 v when rectified if I'm not wrong because it takes the three phase 380 v from the line. Frequency goes from a minimum of 10 Khz to a maximum of 30 Khz depending on the coil, because it has a phase locked loop to mantain the resonance at all times. Frequency is not that critical, since you can play with the amount of power and the heating time to change the depth and the value of the hardness to reach. Also an exquisite way of controlling that is to vary the temperature of the water to cool the part. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking about building a little one for my home shop, so I'm interested how they do it in the real world. If I understand correctly, you're running DC through the coil, and it oscillates from 0 amps to 40 amps between at a chosen frequency between 10-30 kHz. I'm surprised it's DC, for some reason I assumed it would be AC. Thanks again for the reply. Good luck on the project. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second. -John Steinbeck, novelist, Nobel laureate (1902-1968) On 03/11/2015 01:24 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-11 15:08 GMT-03:00 rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net: Looks like a good process. What frequency,voltage and amperage are you using? The heater runs up to 97 amps (per phase) and depending on the lobe to heat we're using it with more or less current. The minimum we're using is about 40 amps. Voltage is about 650 v when rectified if I'm not wrong because it takes the three phase 380 v from the line. Frequency goes from a minimum of 10 Khz to a maximum of 30 Khz depending on the coil, because it has a phase locked loop to mantain the resonance at all times. Frequency is not that critical, since you can play with the amount of power and the heating time to change the depth and the value of the hardness to reach. Also an exquisite way of controlling that is to vary the temperature of the water to cool the part. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
On 11 March 2015 at 02:57, Leonardo Marsaglia leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com wrote: http://postimg.org/image/wjx74v6jf/ It looks a lot better than it did, but I still can't tell what it is... -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-11 6:07 GMT-03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: It looks a lot better than it did, but I still can't tell what it is... It's a heat treating machine for shafts, we'll be using it mostly on camshafts. The part it's holded between centers and the coil and shower move up and down to heat a certain place of the part. In our case, it's going to be used for the lobes of the cam. It's good to have a worm and gear reduction, because the coils for the lobes with more lift are better if they have the shape of the lobe, to heat more uniformly the lobe. For thar we need to rotate the camshaft a certain amount of degrees depending on the lobe to heat. Here some other pics. There you can see the reduction and the shower and where the coil is going to be plugged. http://postimg.org/image/th21yguw5/ http://postimg.org/image/4mik4ea1x/ -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-11 21:16 GMT-03:00 rayj raymo...@frontiernet.net: Thanks for the reply. I'm thinking about building a little one for my home shop, so I'm interested how they do it in the real world. If I understand correctly, you're running DC through the coil, and it oscillates from 0 amps to 40 amps between at a chosen frequency between 10-30 kHz. I'm surprised it's DC, for some reason I assumed it would be AC. Thanks again for the reply. Good luck on the project. Hello Ray. Indeed what's circulating through the coil is AC, I just gave you the aproximate voltage that the machine uses on the input of the inverter. The machine uses a IGBT transistors to switch a square wave AC and then feed this to an LC tank to generate a sine wave. I really don't know how much voltage is on the coil but I assume is a little one, because there, the current rises because of the transformation ratio. We didn't built it but we were experimenting with induction heating, and I can tell you the tricky part it's how to design the circuit for fire the IGBTs. There are some very good references on the internet if you want to build a heater that's not that big. This one has a maximum output power of 60 KW. -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
I say the original machine, because we're only using the fixture for positioning the coil, since the machine used a generator to rise the frequency up, a beast that it's now obsolete. We replaced that for a little IGBT unit. Here's a picture of the generator also. http://postimg.org/image/du5p0kvur/ 2015-03-11 22:28 GMT-03:00 Leonardo Marsaglia leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com : 2015-03-11 22:18 GMT-03:00 Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com: It *IS* AC. 10-30kHz AC. And 40A isn't going to cut it. I think Leonardo is mentioning 97A/phase MAINS input. Compute the input power draw. Is typ goes through a high freq stepdown transformer so its only a couple volts AC and hundreds (thousands?) of amps. Takes many many kJ of energy to make that much iron glow in seconds. Simple physics. I used to work w/ a girl (20yrs ago) who did her phd in induction heating and the resonant control of it. The coils are often copper tubing and water cooled. Its very cool to watch work. Haha you just came right when I was writing the response :). Yes, we're using cooper tubing, although the original machine used a single turn coil made out of cooper but not tubing. Here's a picture of the original coil that came with the machine. http://postimg.org/image/4ye12i2dd/ -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
Rayj, check out neon john at fluxeon they have kits ready to go I have been eyeing them for about 2 yrs On Mar 11, 2015 8:38 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com wrote: I say the original machine, because we're only using the fixture for positioning the coil, since the machine used a generator to rise the frequency up, a beast that it's now obsolete. We replaced that for a little IGBT unit. Here's a picture of the generator also. http://postimg.org/image/du5p0kvur/ 2015-03-11 22:28 GMT-03:00 Leonardo Marsaglia leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com : 2015-03-11 22:18 GMT-03:00 Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com: It *IS* AC. 10-30kHz AC. And 40A isn't going to cut it. I think Leonardo is mentioning 97A/phase MAINS input. Compute the input power draw. Is typ goes through a high freq stepdown transformer so its only a couple volts AC and hundreds (thousands?) of amps. Takes many many kJ of energy to make that much iron glow in seconds. Simple physics. I used to work w/ a girl (20yrs ago) who did her phd in induction heating and the resonant control of it. The coils are often copper tubing and water cooled. Its very cool to watch work. Haha you just came right when I was writing the response :). Yes, we're using cooper tubing, although the original machine used a single turn coil made out of cooper but not tubing. Here's a picture of the original coil that came with the machine. http://postimg.org/image/4ye12i2dd/ -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-11 22:18 GMT-03:00 Stephen Dubovsky smdubov...@gmail.com: It *IS* AC. 10-30kHz AC. And 40A isn't going to cut it. I think Leonardo is mentioning 97A/phase MAINS input. Compute the input power draw. Is typ goes through a high freq stepdown transformer so its only a couple volts AC and hundreds (thousands?) of amps. Takes many many kJ of energy to make that much iron glow in seconds. Simple physics. I used to work w/ a girl (20yrs ago) who did her phd in induction heating and the resonant control of it. The coils are often copper tubing and water cooled. Its very cool to watch work. Haha you just came right when I was writing the response :). Yes, we're using cooper tubing, although the original machine used a single turn coil made out of cooper but not tubing. Here's a picture of the original coil that came with the machine. http://postimg.org/image/4ye12i2dd/ -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-10 18:38 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: I'd like to see it. Please send links when you can. Hello Dave. For now I just have the following pictures so you can see how it's going. The first one is the machine as it was when it was shipped to our shop. It was a disaster. The last one shows it almost done. There's some wiring to do now, and also some covers to put on the bottom side. There where you see the opening there's an AC motor with a reduction. Tomorrow I will upload some pictures of it. The motor and reduction system was already there to turn the part (a really nice one by the way) and we only atacched an encoder to it. I hope to show you some videos of the machine running in a few weeks! [url= http://postimg.org/image/ps6s20hjv/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/ps6s20hjv/pic_01.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/qrx2xpwpn/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/qrx2xpwpn/pic_02.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/puqnoul7f/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/puqnoul7f/pic_03.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/j0gcz5skb/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/j0gcz5skb/pic_04.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/wjx74v6jf/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/wjx74v6jf/pic_05.jpg[/img][/url ] -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
Sorry, those links don't work. Here they are again: http://postimg.org/image/ps6s20hjv/ http://postimg.org/image/qrx2xpwpn/ http://postimg.org/image/puqnoul7f/ http://postimg.org/image/j0gcz5skb/ http://postimg.org/image/wjx74v6jf/ 2015-03-10 23:55 GMT-03:00 Leonardo Marsaglia leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com : 2015-03-10 18:38 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: I'd like to see it. Please send links when you can. Hello Dave. For now I just have the following pictures so you can see how it's going. The first one is the machine as it was when it was shipped to our shop. It was a disaster. The last one shows it almost done. There's some wiring to do now, and also some covers to put on the bottom side. There where you see the opening there's an AC motor with a reduction. Tomorrow I will upload some pictures of it. The motor and reduction system was already there to turn the part (a really nice one by the way) and we only atacched an encoder to it. I hope to show you some videos of the machine running in a few weeks! [url= http://postimg.org/image/ps6s20hjv/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/ps6s20hjv/pic_01.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/qrx2xpwpn/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/qrx2xpwpn/pic_02.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/puqnoul7f/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/puqnoul7f/pic_03.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/j0gcz5skb/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/j0gcz5skb/pic_04.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/wjx74v6jf/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/wjx74v6jf/pic_05.jpg[/img][/url ] -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-10 13:27 GMT-03:00 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: You can set up the HAL so that the output is 0-10V + direction relays if necessary. That is how my VFD is conrtrolled (by a 7i49) Hello andy and thanks for your answer! I forgot to tell that I'm going to use this in servo mode for positioning, like I already did with another AC motor, so I need the change in direction of rotation to be really fast, that's why I don't think I can use relays for the job. -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
The machine looks good! It looks like it needed a lot of work when it arrived. Thanks, Dave On 3/10/2015 9:57 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: Sorry, those links don't work. Here they are again: http://postimg.org/image/ps6s20hjv/ http://postimg.org/image/qrx2xpwpn/ http://postimg.org/image/puqnoul7f/ http://postimg.org/image/j0gcz5skb/ http://postimg.org/image/wjx74v6jf/ 2015-03-10 23:55 GMT-03:00 Leonardo Marsaglia leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com : 2015-03-10 18:38 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: I'd like to see it. Please send links when you can. Hello Dave. For now I just have the following pictures so you can see how it's going. The first one is the machine as it was when it was shipped to our shop. It was a disaster. The last one shows it almost done. There's some wiring to do now, and also some covers to put on the bottom side. There where you see the opening there's an AC motor with a reduction. Tomorrow I will upload some pictures of it. The motor and reduction system was already there to turn the part (a really nice one by the way) and we only atacched an encoder to it. I hope to show you some videos of the machine running in a few weeks! [url= http://postimg.org/image/ps6s20hjv/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/ps6s20hjv/pic_01.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/qrx2xpwpn/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/qrx2xpwpn/pic_02.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/puqnoul7f/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/puqnoul7f/pic_03.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/j0gcz5skb/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/j0gcz5skb/pic_04.jpg[/img][/url ] [url= http://postimg.org/image/wjx74v6jf/][img]http://s1.postimg.org/wjx74v6jf/pic_05.jpg[/img][/url ] -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-11 2:17 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: The machine looks good! It looks like it needed a lot of work when it arrived. Yes It did! Also we re manufactured the screw and nut for the chariot to move. I'll be uploading some videos as soon is all wired up, so I guess in a few weeks you're gonna see it working! -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
Hello. I have a good deal on a new Allen Bradley Power Flex 40 VFD of 3 Hp near my city and I would like to buy it but I have a little doubt about it. Since I'm going to use it with a 5i25 + 7i77 configuration I would like to be sure if this VFD accepts +/- 10 Volts for velocity command input. In the manuals it says that you can switch between 0 - 10 volts or +/-10 by means of a parameter. I'm asking for your advice because I want to be sure about this feature of switching between the two modes, since It's not that common. Also the VFD would be useless if I can't drive it with +/- volts, at least for this application. I attach some PDFs that I used as reference. http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/um/22b-um001_-en-e.pdf http://literature.rockwellautomation.com/idc/groups/literature/documents/qs/22b-qs001_-en-p.pdf Thanks as always for your help!! -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
On 10 March 2015 at 16:19, Leonardo Marsaglia leonardomarsagli...@gmail.com wrote: I'm asking for your advice because I want to be sure about this feature of switching between the two modes, since It's not that common. Also the VFD would be useless if I can't drive it with +/- volts, at least for this application. You can set up the HAL so that the output is 0-10V + direction relays if necessary. That is how my VFD is conrtrolled (by a 7i49) -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
I'd like to see it. Please send links when you can. Dave On 3/10/2015 2:29 PM, Leonardo Marsaglia wrote: 2015-03-10 17:04 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: I've used that drive before and I am sure it can do 0-10VDC. I'm not sure about +/- 10VDC with direction reversal. Hello Dave. I'm pretty sure, watching the manuals that it has both options, so I guess it will work. I think I remember looking at the drive you used before do the positioning and I believe it was much more capable than the Powerflex 40 drive. The one I used before was a C2000 from the Delta brand and indeed worked perfectly. Didn't you use that other drive along with an encoder for full vector control??Without an encoder the drive is guessing at where the motor rotor is. I think that positioning with sensorless vector drive will be very difficult unless your positioning requirements are very loose. I'm using an encoder coupled directly to the screw and the driver itself receives the analog velocity command from LinuxCNC. It works excellent considering I'm not closing the velocity loop inside the VFD, wich I would like to do in the near future. This VFD that I'm going for now (the PowerFlex 40), is for a similar application, in fact it's on the same machine. I need to turn the part a certain amount of degrees. This is going to be achieved using an AC motor driving a worm and gear reduction. The encoder will be coupled directly to the worm, and since the gear has almost none backlash I'm going to use timing pulleys to drive the shaft that turns the part. The only concern for me was if this drive was capable of +/- 10 volts. By the way, the machine is almost done, we've been working on this for almost a year and a half, so I'll be happy to share with you guys some videos and pictures of it! Thanks as always! --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: Allen Bradley PowerFlex 40 question
2015-03-10 17:04 GMT-03:00 Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com: I've used that drive before and I am sure it can do 0-10VDC. I'm not sure about +/- 10VDC with direction reversal. Hello Dave. I'm pretty sure, watching the manuals that it has both options, so I guess it will work. I think I remember looking at the drive you used before do the positioning and I believe it was much more capable than the Powerflex 40 drive. The one I used before was a C2000 from the Delta brand and indeed worked perfectly. Didn't you use that other drive along with an encoder for full vector control??Without an encoder the drive is guessing at where the motor rotor is. I think that positioning with sensorless vector drive will be very difficult unless your positioning requirements are very loose. I'm using an encoder coupled directly to the screw and the driver itself receives the analog velocity command from LinuxCNC. It works excellent considering I'm not closing the velocity loop inside the VFD, wich I would like to do in the near future. This VFD that I'm going for now (the PowerFlex 40), is for a similar application, in fact it's on the same machine. I need to turn the part a certain amount of degrees. This is going to be achieved using an AC motor driving a worm and gear reduction. The encoder will be coupled directly to the worm, and since the gear has almost none backlash I'm going to use timing pulleys to drive the shaft that turns the part. The only concern for me was if this drive was capable of +/- 10 volts. By the way, the machine is almost done, we've been working on this for almost a year and a half, so I'll be happy to share with you guys some videos and pictures of it! Thanks as always! -- *Leonardo Marsaglia*. -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
