Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

Atmel's Windows based IDE can also be used with avrdude as an interface 
with M$.  With that you can load into the Arduino USB port as well.

The software is really nice for being free.

Dave



On 2/27/2017 1:38 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> On 26.02.17 17:55, Martin Dobbins wrote:
>> At some point in the future you might want to alter fuses; Atmel bare
>> chips ship using the onboard 8Mhz  oscillator and divide the result by
>> 8.  If you want a chip to perform as it does on an arduino board with
>> an external 16Mhz crystal you have to change fuses (and you can with
>> Studio 7), ...
> For programming flash, eeprom, & fuses, there's also avrdude:
>
> $ apt-cache search avrdude
> avrdude - software for programming Atmel AVR microcontrollers
> avrdude-doc - documentation for avrdude
>
> which doesn't require admitting M$ onto the property. :-))
>
> I've used that with a venerable STK500 for nearly two decades now.
> It supports all sorts of DIY & buy-it-off-the-intertubes programming
> adaptors, parallel, serial, or USB.
>
> Erik
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

Yes..  they have very good service apparently!  :-)

Dave

On 2/28/2017 1:00 PM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> As a followup: I ordered the ICE from Microchip
> (http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice
> on Sunday using the $50 discount code that expires today. The ICE arrived at
> my Canadian door this afternoon (Tuesday) with no additional fees owing.
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:22 PM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [was]multiswitch Q's, now encoder
>>
>> On 28 February 2017 at 16:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> Why?
>> Because motion creates threads called servo-thread  and base-thread, and
>> that is hard-coded.
>> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/87d2a4e1f28427568a69abcab10
>> 1dec63d24bca3/src/emc/motion/motion.c#L816
>>
>> Why are you trying to jog in a separate thread to the servo thread?
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
>> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
>> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
>> tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Ken Strauss]

As a followup: I ordered the ICE from Microchip 
(http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice
 
on Sunday using the $50 discount code that expires today. The ICE arrived at 
my Canadian door this afternoon (Tuesday) with no additional fees owing.

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2017 12:22 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [was]multiswitch Q's, now encoder
>
> On 28 February 2017 at 16:53, Gene Heskett  wrote:
>
> > Why?
>
> Because motion creates threads called servo-thread  and base-thread, and
> that is hard-coded.
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/87d2a4e1f28427568a69abcab10
> 1dec63d24bca3/src/emc/motion/motion.c#L816
>
> Why are you trying to jog in a separate thread to the servo thread?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> - George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging
> tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

The software is free but the hardware debugger ICE unit is not.

But it works nicely on the AVR boards.

Dave

On 2/27/2017 4:34 AM, Lester Caine wrote:
> On 26/02/17 17:01, Dave Cole wrote:
>> I tried to buy it from the Atmel store as well and I was told the same
>> thing and I am in the US.

>> So they aren't picking on Canadians yet.  ;-)
> Am I missing something?
> Like the Microchip IDE, the Atmel one is available as a free download.
> You do not need to buy the DVD unless you don't have a reasonable
> broadband connection.
> http://www.atmel.com/tools/atmelstudio.aspx#download
>
> MPLAB will probably have the necessary profiles added at some point but
> that will bring things under the Microship licencing scheme. I was
> running free versions of MPLAB but the 'new improved' one MPLAB X is yet
> another change to style ... http://www.microchip.com/mplab/
>
> I don't actually need the stand alone IDE's as I've been running Eclipse
> for code development across many languages and platforms ( very rarely
> Java though ) and since ARM directly support the GNU ARM toolchain this
> has become a good base to expand on.
> http://www.atmel.com/tools/atmel-arm-toolchain.aspx provides the
> official Atmel Device Family Packs although most development boards have
> their own tailored set of files for the ARM toolchain ...
>

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Ken Strauss]

The software is free but the ICE hardware must be purchased.

> -Original Message-
> From: Lester Caine [mailto:les...@lsces.co.uk]
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2017 4:34 AM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
> On 26/02/17 17:01, Dave Cole wrote:
> > I tried to buy it from the Atmel store as well and I was told the same
> > thing and I am in the US.
> > So they aren't picking on Canadians yet.  ;-)
>
> Am I missing something?
> Like the Microchip IDE, the Atmel one is available as a free download.
> You do not need to buy the DVD unless you don't have a reasonable
> broadband connection.
> http://www.atmel.com/tools/atmelstudio.aspx#download
>
> MPLAB will probably have the necessary profiles added at some point but
that
> will bring things under the Microship licencing scheme. I was running free
> versions of MPLAB but the 'new improved' one MPLAB X is yet another change
> to style ... http://www.microchip.com/mplab/
>
> I don't actually need the stand alone IDE's as I've been running Eclipse
for
> code development across many languages and platforms ( very rarely Java
> though ) and since ARM directly support the GNU ARM toolchain this has
> become a good base to expand on.
> http://www.atmel.com/tools/atmel-arm-toolchain.aspx provides the official
> Atmel Device Family Packs although most development boards have their own
> tailored set of files for the ARM toolchain ...
>
> --
> Lester Caine - G8HFL
> -
> Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
> L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk EnquirySolve -
> http://enquirysolve.com/ Model Engineers Digital Workshop -
> http://medw.co.uk Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk
>
>

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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Lester Caine]

On 26/02/17 17:01, Dave Cole wrote:
> I tried to buy it from the Atmel store as well and I was told the same 
> thing and I am in the US.
> So they aren't picking on Canadians yet.  ;-)

Am I missing something?
Like the Microchip IDE, the Atmel one is available as a free download.
You do not need to buy the DVD unless you don't have a reasonable
broadband connection.
http://www.atmel.com/tools/atmelstudio.aspx#download

MPLAB will probably have the necessary profiles added at some point but
that will bring things under the Microship licencing scheme. I was
running free versions of MPLAB but the 'new improved' one MPLAB X is yet
another change to style ... http://www.microchip.com/mplab/

I don't actually need the stand alone IDE's as I've been running Eclipse
for code development across many languages and platforms ( very rarely
Java though ) and since ARM directly support the GNU ARM toolchain this
has become a good base to expand on.
http://www.atmel.com/tools/atmel-arm-toolchain.aspx provides the
official Atmel Device Family Packs although most development boards have
their own tailored set of files for the ARM toolchain ...

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk
Rainbow Digital Media - http://rainbowdigitalmedia.co.uk

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 26.02.17 17:55, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> At some point in the future you might want to alter fuses; Atmel bare
> chips ship using the onboard 8Mhz  oscillator and divide the result by
> 8.  If you want a chip to perform as it does on an arduino board with
> an external 16Mhz crystal you have to change fuses (and you can with
> Studio 7), ...

For programming flash, eeprom, & fuses, there's also avrdude:

$ apt-cache search avrdude
avrdude - software for programming Atmel AVR microcontrollers
avrdude-doc - documentation for avrdude

which doesn't require admitting M$ onto the property. :-))

I've used that with a venerable STK500 for nearly two decades now.
It supports all sorts of DIY & buy-it-off-the-intertubes programming
adaptors, parallel, serial, or USB.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Gregg Eshelman]

Vista, the other 'red headed stepchild' from Microsoft. ;) Antivirus software 
companies are abandoning it. All of the web browsers, even the 'alternative' 
ones, have already abandoned it, except for Firefox. Firefox will end Vista 
support at the end of 2017.
Windows 7 will start going the same way around 2020.
WINE keeps getting better for running Windows software on Linux, and unlike how 
Microsoft has cut various things from new versions of Windows, WINE aims to 
support as much as possible so an old XP program that will not run on newer 
Windows will run on Linux with WINE, along with software that requires newer 
Windows versions. One of the worst things about new Windows for some people are 
the words "deprecated functions". "But I need that!" So they stay with the old 
version as long as they can, or get a new system and disconnect the old from 
the net - or connect it through another system for a firewall.

ReactOS is getting closer to being usable, but still incomplete. The goal there 
is to create an open source core system compatible with Windows software and 
drivers. Sort of like Executor was for Macintosh, but free.

What may happen with Vista if someone gets interested in the challenge is a 
project like KernelEX for enabling Windows 98 and Me to run software that 
requires 2000 or XP. There's a couple of ways to go about it. Directly extend 
the Vista kernel by patching it, or use a "wrapper" that "plugs in" and adds 
new stuff from Windows 7 and later without altering any of Vista's files.

If you still have a PC with either version of Windows 98 on it, one thing 
that's very useful is the update which takes Windows Me's USB Mass Storage 
support and installs it into 98. 98's USBMS wasn't much better than the USB 
addon to 95 OSR2. 98SE was better but many USB storage devices still required 
their own drivers. WinMe had a truly universal UBS storage support. You can 
find that and other similar projects on msfn.org



  From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
 To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> 
 Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:39 AM
 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
   
Well... you might want to read this.

https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/

http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10

I'm running Atmel Studio on a Windows 10 laptop.  As much as I dislike 
Microsoft, Windows 10 is pretty good.  Its very stable.  I run "Classic 
Shell" on all of my windows machines to make them all operate like 
Windows 7.  I have to deal with Windows XP, 7, 8.1, and 10, often at 
the same time for my day job.  Classic Shell keeps me sane.

I would not waste my time with Vista.  Its just too old.

   
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

On 2/26/2017 12:38 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> My only concern with limited experience with Windows 10 is that the software 
> seems to update itself whenever it pleases.

It can, but you can limit when it updates.   So on my one laptop I told 
it could only update between 3 and 4 am  and since my laptop is almost 
never on then, it has not been an issue.   It complained initially but 
then I let a few updates through and it hasn't attempted any updates for 
weeks or months.  If you really want to shut off updates there are ways 
to do it which are documented on the web.

Apparently with Windows 10 Pro you can entirely control updates. With 
lesser versions you don't have as much control.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

Thanks,   good to know.
I had to flip one fuse and cut one trace on the board so Atmel Studio 
will work with it.
But so far so good!  :-)

Dave

On 2/26/2017 12:55 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> Dave,
>
>
> More info than you probably want right now, but.
>
>
> At some point in the future you might want to alter fuses; Atmel bare chips 
> ship using the onboard 8Mhz  oscillator and divide the result by 8.  If you 
> want a chip to perform as it does on an arduino board with an external 16Mhz 
> crystal you have to change fuses (and you can with Studio 7), but one fuse 
> setting must not be changed since it will brick the chip.  More info here:
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDUG7aJXL9k
>
>
> and here:
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VLfgOM7uS0
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> Well... you might want to read this.
>
> https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/
> You Don’t Need a Product Key to Install and Use Windows 
> 10<https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/>
> www.howtogeek.com
> Microsoft allows anyone to download Windows 10 for free and install it 
> without a product key. It’ll keep working for the foreseeable future, with 
> only a few small ...
>
>
>
>
> http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10
> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.xQRfeX-7oPf3oMf9wZbragEsC7=Api]<http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10>
>
> You do not need to Activate Windows 10 to install it, but 
> ...<http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10>
> www.windowscentral.com
> Did you know you can install Windows 10 to any PC or Mac without an 
> activation key? Here is how, what happens, and how you can buy a key later 
> without ever leaving ...
>
>
>
>
> I'm running Atmel Studio on a Windows 10 laptop.   As much as I dislike
> Microsoft, Windows 10 is pretty good.  Its very stable.  I run "Classic
> Shell" on all of my windows machines to make them all operate like
> Windows 7.   I have to deal with Windows XP, 7, 8.1, and 10, often at
> the same time for my day job.  Classic Shell keeps me sane.
>
> I would not waste my time with Vista.   Its just too old.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> On 2/26/2017 9:26 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
>> Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor in the 
>> cost of buying a windows licence to run the software.
>>
>>
>> I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7 will run 
>> on anything earlier than windows 7?
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> 
>> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>>
>>
>>>>Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>>
>> Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
>> I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
>> Amazon).
>>
>> Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!
>>
>> I followed the example in the link here:
>> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/
> [http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/debug_breakpoint_thumb.jpg]<http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/>
>
> DEBUGGING ARDUINO SKETCHES WITH ATMEL STUDIO 
> 7<http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/>
> blog.solutions-cubed.com
> Atmel’s AtmelStudio version 7 allows you to import Arduino sketches and debug 
> them. This brings the Arduino into the realm of a professional design 
> engineer tool.
>
>
>
>>
>> Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
>> Atmel studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead
>> software in the Arduino.
>>
>> I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
>> run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
>> interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered
>> the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial
>> window, so I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I
>> could see the text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel
>> Studio at the same time.
>>
>> With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program executio

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Ken Strauss]

Ordering from Microchip appears to have worked. At least I got an order
confirmation back. They added HST (Canadian VAT) so I assume that it will
arrive here without additional fees. Thanks!

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Cole [mailto:linuxcncro...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 12:01 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
> I tried to buy it from the Atmel store as well and I was told the same
thing and
> I am in the US.
> So they aren't picking on Canadians yet.  ;-)
>
> Try this:
> http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=a
> tatmel-ice
> Make sure you use the Coupon Code when you check out to save $50 which is
> good through the end of the month.
>
> Hopefully they ship to Canada.Looks like they have offices in Canada!
> http://www.microchip.com/distributors/SalesListing.aspx?market=CANADA;
> region=NA=Eastern%20Canada%20(Ontario,%20Quebec,%20Nova%20Sc
> otia,%20New%20Brunswick,%20Newfoundland,%20PEI)
>
> And they serve western Canada out of San Jose.
> http://www.microchip.com/distributors/SalesListing.aspx?market=CANADA;
> region=NA=Western%20Canada%20(Manitoba,%20British%20Columbia,
> %20Saskatchewan,%20Alberta,%20Yukon,%20N.W.T.,%20Nunavik)
>
> That is the full Atmel ICE, not the Atmel Basic, so it comes with several
cables
> and a trangular "interface PC board" which apparently I don't need yet.
:-)
>
> I'm only using the AVR interface at the moment.   Some of the cables and
> perhaps the "interface PC board" are for the SAM interface.
>
> I have several Canadian relatives on both coasts.
>
> I worked with the ICE more last night and it just gets better the more I
learn
> about it.  Its a very powerful tool for debugging.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/26/2017 11:20 AM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> > That sounds great!
> >
> > Perhaps it is because I am in Canada but the Atmel store
> > (http://www.atmel.com/tools/atatmel-ice.aspx#buy) says that I can't
> > buy the ICE online. Several versions are available from  Digikey. Did
> > you get the Atatmel ICE Basic or Atatmel ICE or...?
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:27 AM
> >> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
> >>
> >> Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor
> >> in
> > the cost
> >> of buying a windows licence to run the software.
> >>
> >>
> >> I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7
> >> will
> > run on
> >> anything earlier than windows 7?
> >>
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
> >> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
> >>
> >>
> >>   >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.
> >>
> >> Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
> >> I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
> >> Amazon).
> >>
> >> Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!
> >>
> >> I followed the example in the link here:
> >> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel
> >> -
> >> studio-7/
> >>
> >>
> >> Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
> > Atmel
> >> studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead software
> >> in the Arduino.
> >>
> >> I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
> >> run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
> >> interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously
altered
> >> the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial
> >> window,
> > so
> >> I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I could
> >> see
> > the
> >> text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel Studio at the
> >> same time.
> >>
> >> With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at
> >> anytime, and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values
> >> ju

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Martin Dobbins]

Dave,


More info than you probably want right now, but.


At some point in the future you might want to alter fuses; Atmel bare chips 
ship using the onboard 8Mhz  oscillator and divide the result by 8.  If you 
want a chip to perform as it does on an arduino board with an external 16Mhz 
crystal you have to change fuses (and you can with Studio 7), but one fuse 
setting must not be changed since it will brick the chip.  More info here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDUG7aJXL9k


and here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VLfgOM7uS0


Martin







Well... you might want to read this.

https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/
You Don’t Need a Product Key to Install and Use Windows 
10<https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/>
www.howtogeek.com
Microsoft allows anyone to download Windows 10 for free and install it without 
a product key. It’ll keep working for the foreseeable future, with only a few 
small ...




http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.xQRfeX-7oPf3oMf9wZbragEsC7=Api]<http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10>

You do not need to Activate Windows 10 to install it, but 
...<http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10>
www.windowscentral.com
Did you know you can install Windows 10 to any PC or Mac without an activation 
key? Here is how, what happens, and how you can buy a key later without ever 
leaving ...




I'm running Atmel Studio on a Windows 10 laptop.   As much as I dislike
Microsoft, Windows 10 is pretty good.  Its very stable.  I run "Classic
Shell" on all of my windows machines to make them all operate like
Windows 7.   I have to deal with Windows XP, 7, 8.1, and 10, often at
the same time for my day job.  Classic Shell keeps me sane.

I would not waste my time with Vista.   Its just too old.

Dave



On 2/26/2017 9:26 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor in the 
> cost of buying a windows licence to run the software.
>
>
> I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7 will run 
> on anything earlier than windows 7?
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> 
> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
>
>   >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>
> Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
> I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
> Amazon).
>
> Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!
>
> I followed the example in the link here:
> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/
[http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/debug_breakpoint_thumb.jpg]<http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/>

DEBUGGING ARDUINO SKETCHES WITH ATMEL STUDIO 
7<http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/>
blog.solutions-cubed.com
Atmel’s AtmelStudio version 7 allows you to import Arduino sketches and debug 
them. This brings the Arduino into the realm of a professional design engineer 
tool.



>
>
> Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
> Atmel studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead
> software in the Arduino.
>
> I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
> run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
> interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered
> the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial
> window, so I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I
> could see the text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel
> Studio at the same time.
>
> With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at
> anytime, and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values
> just as I could after a breakpoint was met.   I believe I can also set
> them.   The commands available in the Atmel Studio command window is
> extensive.
>
> I'm only scratching the surface of this Atmel IDE but it is a huge
> improvement over just having the Arduino IDE.
>
> For $90 including tax and shipping, this is a no-brainer for debugging
> difficult programs.  This will be a big time saver.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/25/2017 11:49 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>> That's really interesting.   Thanks for the link.
>> I read some things before about the Arduino overhead impacting u

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Martin Dobbins]

Thanks, it looks like Microsoft is changing their marketing tactics  (about 
time too)  so you can actually try before you buy.  At least you can check if 
your hardware will actually run the OS before spending any money, what a novel 
idea 


Actually we do have a very "thin client" Windows 10 laptop around to use for 
the inevitable work stuff , I'll check if it has enough horsepower to run 
studio 7.  I keep vista around on a dual boot system for some legacy games I 
like to play, nothing else.  I have my doubts about getting two different 
versions of Windows to peacefully coexist on one machine, or I would just use 
grub to give me a 3 boot machine.


My only concern with limited experience with Windows 10 is that the software 
seems to update itself whenever it pleases.


Martin






Well... you might want to read this.

https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/
You Don’t Need a Product Key to Install and Use Windows 
10<https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/>
www.howtogeek.com
Microsoft allows anyone to download Windows 10 for free and install it without 
a product key. It’ll keep working for the foreseeable future, with only a few 
small ...




http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.xQRfeX-7oPf3oMf9wZbragEsC7=Api]<http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10>

You do not need to Activate Windows 10 to install it, but 
...<http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10>
www.windowscentral.com
Did you know you can install Windows 10 to any PC or Mac without an activation 
key? Here is how, what happens, and how you can buy a key later without ever 
leaving ...




I'm running Atmel Studio on a Windows 10 laptop.   As much as I dislike
Microsoft, Windows 10 is pretty good.  Its very stable.  I run "Classic
Shell" on all of my windows machines to make them all operate like
Windows 7.   I have to deal with Windows XP, 7, 8.1, and 10, often at
the same time for my day job.  Classic Shell keeps me sane.

I would not waste my time with Vista.   Its just too old.

Dave



On 2/26/2017 9:26 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor in the 
> cost of buying a windows licence to run the software.
>
>
> I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7 will run 
> on anything earlier than windows 7?
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> 
> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
>
>   >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>
> Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
> I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
> Amazon).
>
> Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!
>
> I followed the example in the link here:
> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/
[http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/debug_breakpoint_thumb.jpg]<http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/>

DEBUGGING ARDUINO SKETCHES WITH ATMEL STUDIO 
7<http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/>
blog.solutions-cubed.com
Atmel’s AtmelStudio version 7 allows you to import Arduino sketches and debug 
them. This brings the Arduino into the realm of a professional design engineer 
tool.



>
>
> Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
> Atmel studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead
> software in the Arduino.
>
> I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
> run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
> interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered
> the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial
> window, so I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I
> could see the text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel
> Studio at the same time.
>
> With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at
> anytime, and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values
> just as I could after a breakpoint was met.   I believe I can also set
> them.   The commands available in the Atmel Studio command window is
> extensive.
>
> I'm only scratching the surface of this Atmel IDE but it is a huge
> improvement over just having the Arduino IDE.
>
> For $90 including tax and shipping, this is a no-brainer for debugging
> difficult programs.  This will be a bi

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

I tried to buy it from the Atmel store as well and I was told the same 
thing and I am in the US.
So they aren't picking on Canadians yet.  ;-)

Try this:
http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice
Make sure you use the Coupon Code when you check out to save $50 which 
is good through the end of the month.

Hopefully they ship to Canada.Looks like they have offices in Canada!
http://www.microchip.com/distributors/SalesListing.aspx?market=CANADA=NA=Eastern%20Canada%20(Ontario,%20Quebec,%20Nova%20Scotia,%20New%20Brunswick,%20Newfoundland,%20PEI)

And they serve western Canada out of San Jose.
http://www.microchip.com/distributors/SalesListing.aspx?market=CANADA=NA=Western%20Canada%20(Manitoba,%20British%20Columbia,%20Saskatchewan,%20Alberta,%20Yukon,%20N.W.T.,%20Nunavik)

That is the full Atmel ICE, not the Atmel Basic, so it comes with 
several cables and a trangular "interface PC board" which apparently I 
don't need yet.  :-)

I'm only using the AVR interface at the moment.   Some of the cables and 
perhaps the "interface PC board" are for the SAM interface.

I have several Canadian relatives on both coasts.

I worked with the ICE more last night and it just gets better the more I 
learn about it.  Its a very powerful tool for debugging.

Dave


On 2/26/2017 11:20 AM, Ken Strauss wrote:
> That sounds great!
>
> Perhaps it is because I am in Canada but the Atmel store
> (http://www.atmel.com/tools/atatmel-ice.aspx#buy) says that I can't buy the
> ICE online. Several versions are available from  Digikey. Did you get the
> Atatmel ICE Basic or Atatmel ICE or...?
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:27 AM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>>
>> Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor in
> the cost
>> of buying a windows licence to run the software.
>>
>>
>> I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7 will
> run on
>> anything earlier than windows 7?
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> ____________
>> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
>> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>>
>>
>>   >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>>
>> Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
>> I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
>> Amazon).
>>
>> Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!
>>
>> I followed the example in the link here:
>> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-
>> studio-7/
>>
>>
>> Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
> Atmel
>> studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead software in the
>> Arduino.
>>
>> I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
>> run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
>> interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered
>> the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial window,
> so
>> I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I could see
> the
>> text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel Studio at the same
>> time.
>>
>> With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at anytime,
>> and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values
>> just as I could after a breakpoint was met.   I believe I can also set
>> them.   The commands available in the Atmel Studio command window is
>> extensive.
>>
>> I'm only scratching the surface of this Atmel IDE but it is a huge
> improvement
>> over just having the Arduino IDE.
>>
>> For $90 including tax and shipping, this is a no-brainer for debugging
> difficult
>> programs.  This will be a big time saver.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On 2/25/2017 11:49 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>>> That's really interesting.   Thanks for the link.
>>> I read some things before about the Arduino overhead impacting user
>>> code.   That is a glaring example.
>>> I'm trying to stay as generic as possible..  if I need to dip into the
>>> hardware specifics because of the overhead in the Arduino I will, but
>>> it sure would be nice to try and keep the code generic as possible
>>> since Arduino has both 

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

Well... you might want to read this.

https://www.howtogeek.com/244678/you-dont-need-a-product-key-to-install-and-use-windows-10/

http://www.windowscentral.com/you-do-not-need-activate-windows-10

I'm running Atmel Studio on a Windows 10 laptop.   As much as I dislike 
Microsoft, Windows 10 is pretty good.  Its very stable.  I run "Classic 
Shell" on all of my windows machines to make them all operate like 
Windows 7.   I have to deal with Windows XP, 7, 8.1, and 10, often at 
the same time for my day job.  Classic Shell keeps me sane.

I would not waste my time with Vista.   Its just too old.

Dave



On 2/26/2017 9:26 AM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor in the 
> cost of buying a windows licence to run the software.
>
>
> I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7 will run 
> on anything earlier than windows 7?
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> 
> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
>
>   >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>
> Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
> I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
> Amazon).
>
> Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!
>
> I followed the example in the link here:
> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/
>
>
> Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
> Atmel studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead
> software in the Arduino.
>
> I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
> run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
> interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered
> the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial
> window, so I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I
> could see the text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel
> Studio at the same time.
>
> With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at
> anytime, and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values
> just as I could after a breakpoint was met.   I believe I can also set
> them.   The commands available in the Atmel Studio command window is
> extensive.
>
> I'm only scratching the surface of this Atmel IDE but it is a huge
> improvement over just having the Arduino IDE.
>
> For $90 including tax and shipping, this is a no-brainer for debugging
> difficult programs.  This will be a big time saver.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/25/2017 11:49 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
>> That's really interesting.   Thanks for the link.
>> I read some things before about the Arduino overhead impacting user
>> code.   That is a glaring example.
>> I'm trying to stay as generic as possible..  if I need to dip into the
>> hardware specifics because of the overhead in the Arduino I will, but
>> it sure would be nice to try and keep the code generic as possible
>> since Arduino has both AVR and  ARM boards.  And I certainly don't
>> want to toss all of the established device libraries for the Arduino
>> out the window.
>>
>> I guess it may be human nature to try and keep things cheap, but if a
>> project is not going to result in hundreds or thousands of devices
>> being made, the cost difference between a AVR or ARM seem to be almost
>> irrelevant compared to the labor/time involved. Hopefully by trying to
>> keep things fairly generic I can move between the two as it makes sense.
>>
>> Regarding the Atmel ICE and Microchip;  I ordered the ICE late one
>> night, the following day Microchip shipped it out and I had it the
>> next day.They shipped it overnight even though I didn't ask for
>> overnight shipping.   So far, Microchip has me impressed. I'll let you
>> know what I find regarding the ICE.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On 2/23/2017 10:09 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
>>> Hi Dave,
>>>
>>>
>>> Being able to step through your program might not be the only
>>> advantage according to this guy:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc
> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.njyD-G9Guel94cysnV2BxwEsCo=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc>
>
> Why I’m switching over from the awesome Arduino IDE to 
> ...<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc>
> www.youtube.com
> In this video I would like to explain why 

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Ken Strauss]

That sounds great!

Perhaps it is because I am in Canada but the Atmel store
(http://www.atmel.com/tools/atatmel-ice.aspx#buy) says that I can't buy the
ICE online. Several versions are available from  Digikey. Did you get the
Atatmel ICE Basic or Atatmel ICE or...?


> -Original Message-
> From: Martin Dobbins [mailto:tu...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 9:27 AM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
> Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor in
the cost
> of buying a windows licence to run the software.
>
>
> I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7 will
run on
> anything earlier than windows 7?
>
>
> Martin
>
>
> 
> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
>
>  >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>
> Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
> I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
> Amazon).
>
> Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!
>
> I followed the example in the link here:
> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-
> studio-7/
>
>
> Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
Atmel
> studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead software in the
> Arduino.
>
> I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
> run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
> interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered
> the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial window,
so
> I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I could see
the
> text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel Studio at the same
> time.
>
> With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at anytime,
> and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values
> just as I could after a breakpoint was met.   I believe I can also set
> them.   The commands available in the Atmel Studio command window is
> extensive.
>
> I'm only scratching the surface of this Atmel IDE but it is a huge
improvement
> over just having the Arduino IDE.
>
> For $90 including tax and shipping, this is a no-brainer for debugging
difficult
> programs.  This will be a big time saver.
>
> Dave
>
>
> On 2/25/2017 11:49 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> > That's really interesting.   Thanks for the link.
> > I read some things before about the Arduino overhead impacting user
> > code.   That is a glaring example.
> > I'm trying to stay as generic as possible..  if I need to dip into the
> > hardware specifics because of the overhead in the Arduino I will, but
> > it sure would be nice to try and keep the code generic as possible
> > since Arduino has both AVR and  ARM boards.  And I certainly don't
> > want to toss all of the established device libraries for the Arduino
> > out the window.
> >
> > I guess it may be human nature to try and keep things cheap, but if a
> > project is not going to result in hundreds or thousands of devices
> > being made, the cost difference between a AVR or ARM seem to be almost
> > irrelevant compared to the labor/time involved. Hopefully by trying to
> > keep things fairly generic I can move between the two as it makes sense.
> >
> > Regarding the Atmel ICE and Microchip;  I ordered the ICE late one
> > night, the following day Microchip shipped it out and I had it the
> > next day.They shipped it overnight even though I didn't ask for
> > overnight shipping.   So far, Microchip has me impressed. I'll let you
> > know what I find regarding the ICE.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > On 2/23/2017 10:09 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> >> Hi Dave,
> >>
> >>
> >> Being able to step through your program might not be the only
> >> advantage according to this guy:
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc
> [https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.njyD-
> G9Guel94cysnV2BxwEsCo=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648
> Tx5N9Zoc>
>
> Why I'm switching over from the awesome Arduino IDE to
> ...<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc>
> www.youtube.com
> In this video I would like to explain why I'm switching over from the
Atmel IDE
> to Atmel studio for my personal projects. And let's explain

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Martin Dobbins]

Thanks for the update Dave, it's a shame that I'd also have to factor in the 
cost of buying a windows licence to run the software.


I do have a legal copy of windows vista, but I don't think studio 7 will run on 
anything earlier than windows 7?


Martin



From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2017 6:18 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?


 >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off
Amazon).

Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!

I followed the example in the link here:
http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/


Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into
Atmel studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead
software in the Arduino.

I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it
run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could
interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered
the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial
window, so I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I
could see the text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel
Studio at the same time.

With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at
anytime, and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values
just as I could after a breakpoint was met.   I believe I can also set
them.   The commands available in the Atmel Studio command window is
extensive.

I'm only scratching the surface of this Atmel IDE but it is a huge
improvement over just having the Arduino IDE.

For $90 including tax and shipping, this is a no-brainer for debugging
difficult programs.  This will be a big time saver.

Dave


On 2/25/2017 11:49 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> That's really interesting.   Thanks for the link.
> I read some things before about the Arduino overhead impacting user
> code.   That is a glaring example.
> I'm trying to stay as generic as possible..  if I need to dip into the
> hardware specifics because of the overhead in the Arduino I will, but
> it sure would be nice to try and keep the code generic as possible
> since Arduino has both AVR and  ARM boards.  And I certainly don't
> want to toss all of the established device libraries for the Arduino
> out the window.
>
> I guess it may be human nature to try and keep things cheap, but if a
> project is not going to result in hundreds or thousands of devices
> being made, the cost difference between a AVR or ARM seem to be almost
> irrelevant compared to the labor/time involved. Hopefully by trying to
> keep things fairly generic I can move between the two as it makes sense.
>
> Regarding the Atmel ICE and Microchip;  I ordered the ICE late one
> night, the following day Microchip shipped it out and I had it the
> next day.They shipped it overnight even though I didn't ask for
> overnight shipping.   So far, Microchip has me impressed. I'll let you
> know what I find regarding the ICE.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> On 2/23/2017 10:09 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>>
>> Being able to step through your program might not be the only
>> advantage according to this guy:
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc
[https://www.bing.com/th?id=OVP.njyD-G9Guel94cysnV2BxwEsCo=Api]<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc>

Why I’m switching over from the awesome Arduino IDE to 
...<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc>
www.youtube.com
In this video I would like to explain why I’m switching over from the Atmel IDE 
to Atmel studio for my personal projects. And let’s explain it with a simple 
code ...



>>
>>
>> Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________
>> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:02 PM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>>
>> Wow,
>>
>> Thanks guys...  lots of great info!
>>
>> I did end up buying the Atmel ICE.   It turned out to be $80 plus
>> shipping and tax after a $50 coupon which expires on 2/28.   I will feel
>> better having it available.
>>
>> This is the full Atmel ICE kit, not the basic kit.
>>
>> http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice
Atmel-ICE - ATATMEL-ICE | Microchip Technology 
Inc.<http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatme

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

 >>Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Just some feedback on this Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio 7.
I loaded it up today and connected it to a Arduino Uno Clone ($10 off 
Amazon).

Atmel Studio 7 is really nice!

I followed the example in the link here:
http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/

Atmel Studio 7 can open an existing Arduino sketch and import it into 
Atmel studio and at the same time it exposes all of the overhead 
software in the Arduino.

I opened a Sketch I already had, set a few break points and watched it 
run.   The software stopped at the break points and and I could 
interrogate variables via the command window.   I had previously altered 
the sketch to output some text messages to the Arduino IDE serial 
window, so I fired up the Arduino IDE and opened the serial window and I 
could see the text messages there and watch for breakpoints in Atmel 
Studio at the same time.

With the ICE, I can now pause and resume the program execution at 
anytime, and when paused, interrogate the program for variable values 
just as I could after a breakpoint was met.   I believe I can also set 
them.   The commands available in the Atmel Studio command window is 
extensive.

I'm only scratching the surface of this Atmel IDE but it is a huge 
improvement over just having the Arduino IDE.

For $90 including tax and shipping, this is a no-brainer for debugging 
difficult programs.  This will be a big time saver.

Dave


On 2/25/2017 11:49 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> That's really interesting.   Thanks for the link.
> I read some things before about the Arduino overhead impacting user 
> code.   That is a glaring example.
> I'm trying to stay as generic as possible..  if I need to dip into the 
> hardware specifics because of the overhead in the Arduino I will, but 
> it sure would be nice to try and keep the code generic as possible 
> since Arduino has both AVR and  ARM boards.  And I certainly don't 
> want to toss all of the established device libraries for the Arduino 
> out the window.
>
> I guess it may be human nature to try and keep things cheap, but if a 
> project is not going to result in hundreds or thousands of devices 
> being made, the cost difference between a AVR or ARM seem to be almost 
> irrelevant compared to the labor/time involved. Hopefully by trying to 
> keep things fairly generic I can move between the two as it makes sense.
>
> Regarding the Atmel ICE and Microchip;  I ordered the ICE late one 
> night, the following day Microchip shipped it out and I had it the 
> next day.They shipped it overnight even though I didn't ask for 
> overnight shipping.   So far, Microchip has me impressed. I'll let you 
> know what I find regarding the ICE.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
> On 2/23/2017 10:09 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>>
>> Being able to step through your program might not be the only 
>> advantage according to this guy:
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc
>>
>>
>> Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________
>> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:02 PM
>> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>>
>> Wow,
>>
>> Thanks guys...  lots of great info!
>>
>> I did end up buying the Atmel ICE.   It turned out to be $80 plus
>> shipping and tax after a $50 coupon which expires on 2/28.   I will feel
>> better having it available.
>>
>> This is the full Atmel ICE kit, not the basic kit.
>>
>> http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice
>>  
>>
>> Atmel-ICE - ATATMEL-ICE | Microchip Technology 
>> Inc.<http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice>
>> www.microchip.com
>> Atmel-ICE is a powerful development tool for debugging and 
>> programming ARM® Cortex®-M based SAM and AVR microcontrollers with 
>> on-chip debug capability.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/23/2017 11:53 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>>> Search on ebay for STM32F103.  These are 72MHz ARM Cortex M3 (if I 
>>>> recall).
>>> I use STM32 and they are indeed very good, the others are similar so 
>>> if they are the best I do not know.
>>>
>>> --
>>>  
>>>
>>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's m

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

That's really interesting.   Thanks for the link.
I read some things before about the Arduino overhead impacting user 
code.   That is a glaring example.
I'm trying to stay as generic as possible..  if I need to dip into the 
hardware specifics because of the overhead in the Arduino I will, but it 
sure would be nice to try and keep the code generic as possible since 
Arduino has both AVR and  ARM boards.  And I certainly don't want to 
toss all of the established device libraries for the Arduino out the 
window.

I guess it may be human nature to try and keep things cheap, but if a 
project is not going to result in hundreds or thousands of devices being 
made, the cost difference between a AVR or ARM seem to be almost 
irrelevant compared to the labor/time involved. Hopefully by trying to 
keep things fairly generic I can move between the two as it makes sense.

Regarding the Atmel ICE and Microchip;  I ordered the ICE late one 
night, the following day Microchip shipped it out and I had it the next 
day.They shipped it overnight even though I didn't ask for overnight 
shipping.   So far, Microchip has me impressed. I'll let you know what I 
find regarding the ICE.

Thanks,

Dave

On 2/23/2017 10:09 PM, Martin Dobbins wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
>
> Being able to step through your program might not be the only advantage 
> according to this guy:
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc
>
>
> Good luck and let us know how you get on.
>
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> 
> From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:02 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?
>
> Wow,
>
> Thanks guys...  lots of great info!
>
> I did end up buying the Atmel ICE.   It turned out to be $80 plus
> shipping and tax after a $50 coupon which expires on 2/28.   I will feel
> better having it available.
>
> This is the full Atmel ICE kit, not the basic kit.
>
> http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice
> Atmel-ICE - ATATMEL-ICE | Microchip Technology 
> Inc.<http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice>
> www.microchip.com
> Atmel-ICE is a powerful development tool for debugging and programming ARM® 
> Cortex®-M based SAM and AVR microcontrollers with on-chip debug capability.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/23/2017 11:53 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>>> Search on ebay for STM32F103.  These are 72MHz ARM Cortex M3 (if I recall).
>> I use STM32 and they are indeed very good, the others are similar so if they 
>> are the best I do not know.
>>
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters<http://sdm.link/slashdot>
> sdm.link
> Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters. Timely news source for 
> technology related news with a heavy slant towards Linux and Open Source 
> issues.
>
>
>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> Emc-users Info Page - 
> SourceForge<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>
> lists.sourceforge.net
> This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics 
> include how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other 
> general EMC related ...
>
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters<http://sdm.link/slashdot>
> sdm.link
> Slashdot: News for nerds, stuff that matters. Timely news source for 
> technology related news with a heavy slant towards Linux and Open Source 
> issues.
>
>
>
> ___
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> SourceForge<https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users>
> lists.sourceforge.net
> This list is for users of the Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC). Topics 
> include how to obtain, install, configure, and use EMC, as well as other 
> general EMC related ...
>
>
>
> ---

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[R.L. Wurdack]

I vaguely recall the subject coming up in one of the Propeller columns in 
""Nuts'nVolts"" Magazine. You may want to search there.

R.


- Original Message - 
From: <mcgy...@tapq.com>
To: <emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?


>
>
>
> I have several brands of MCU with Arduino being one. I am wondering if 
> anyone on the list has tried a Parallax Propeller for any cnc type app. It 
> ha 8 - 32 bit processors called cogs.Robert
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 



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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Bertho Stultiens]

On 02/25/2017 09:22 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote:
> Once I've built familiarity with a chip family's peripherals, and a
> debugged library of routines to use them, then it is just dufus to rock
> up with "My cpu core is sexier than yours." They all execute code
> reliably, so the core is quite irrelevant. Yep, some cores are faster
> than others, but how flaming fast do you need to detect sunrise and
> sunset, and measure battery voltage?

IMO, this is the correct response to the "which core" question. You
could add factors as cost too.

The developer's familiarity with any particular device is often a big
factor because it takes many hours of hard work to learn a chip's
internals (AVR's mega328p datasheet is 600+ pages, many ARMs have 1200+
pages for the peripherals alone).

The biggest problem I encounter is /choosing/ one particular chip for a
job. There are so many, each with specifically tailored peripherals and
limiting combinations to use them. You normally try to balance between
time to invest to find the "best fit" versus the "this will just work",
where all factors are considered, also time to invest and (relative)
ease of use.


Taking a different perspective; The fact is that all of these chips are
on the market. Many new 8, 16 and 32 bit cores are today designed and
brought to the market. If the manufacturer could not see any profit in
them, I'd guess they would not do so. This is really a case of "you use
the tools that fit the job", which should be a familiar concept among
the milling and otherwise cutting people on this list. This sometimes
means hammering with a screwdriver ;-)


[snip]
> The AVR has GCC support, and PIC is a loser there.
[snip]
> (Would have to fire up SDCC, though, as GCC never stooped to the 8051.)

I've been using SDCC for PICs quite a lot (cost of a PIC is often less
than AVR). The compiler will do most of the things you want if you learn
the quirks.


-- 
Greetings Bertho

(disclaimers are disclaimed)

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

On Sat, 25 Feb 2017 19:22:38 +1100
Erik Christiansen  wrote:

> On 24.02.17 15:18, Stephen Dubovsky wrote:
> > If you have to use on chip peripherals such as DMA, ADC, or PWM you very
> > much have to "learn a chip" (some are part of the core, some are part of
> > the silicon manufacturer implementation.)  An Arduino OS will sield you
> > from much of that but if doing more bare metal implementation or even
> > running a commercial RTOS its very necessary.
> 
> +1
> 
> Once I've built familiarity with a chip family's peripherals, and a
> debugged library of routines to use them, then it is just dufus to rock
> up with "My cpu core is sexier than yours." They all execute code
> reliably, so the core is quite irrelevant. Yep, some cores are faster
> than others, but how flaming fast do you need to detect sunrise and
> sunset, and measure battery voltage?

There is a difference if nested interrupts with priority is available otherwise 
CPU rarely make any practical difference then programming although available 
execution power may be a limitation.

Peripherals may make a difference but it is usually not to hard to move code to 
another device with different peripherals.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 24.02.17 15:18, Stephen Dubovsky wrote:
> If you have to use on chip peripherals such as DMA, ADC, or PWM you very
> much have to "learn a chip" (some are part of the core, some are part of
> the silicon manufacturer implementation.)  An Arduino OS will sield you
> from much of that but if doing more bare metal implementation or even
> running a commercial RTOS its very necessary.

+1

Once I've built familiarity with a chip family's peripherals, and a
debugged library of routines to use them, then it is just dufus to rock
up with "My cpu core is sexier than yours." They all execute code
reliably, so the core is quite irrelevant. Yep, some cores are faster
than others, but how flaming fast do you need to detect sunrise and
sunset, and measure battery voltage?

My last commercial project (the 8-channel PABX card) could have been
done with any of many small CPUs, all selling cheaply. So my choice was
finally based exclusively on toolchain support. The AVR has GCC support,
and PIC is a loser there.

I've been using AVR for just on two decades now. I think it might see me
out for run-of-the-mill projects, not needing Linux. Heck, I have an old
tube of little 89C2051 microcontrollers. It might be a blast to revisit
my 8051 days by doing something with them and their 0.6 MIPS performance. :^)
(Would have to fire up SDCC, though, as GCC never stooped to the 8051.)

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Stephen Dubovsky]

If you have to use on chip peripherals such as DMA, ADC, or PWM you very
much have to "learn a chip" (some are part of the core, some are part of
the silicon manufacturer implementation.)  An Arduino OS will sield you
from much of that but if doing more bare metal implementation or even
running a commercial RTOS its very necessary.

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Chris Albertson 
wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:54 AM, Stephen Dubovsky 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Indeed support is VERY useful.  There are many more ARM forums (and
> > professional users) then Arduino.
>
>
> That is an odd thing to say because Arduino is moving to ARM.
>
> Tool chains used to be such a big deal.  Mostly what you'd be invested in
> was the tools.  One never learns a chip, you learn the tools used by that
> family of chips.   Then after coming up to speed you don't really want to
> go through that again.   But we are seeing a convergence of tools.   There
> is Arduino that now works for both AVR and ARM.   Eclipse is universal and
> the GNU tool chain is much the same on an ARM M3 as it is one my Apple
> iMac, it's just a GNU C compiler.  So "moving to ARM" can be very
> transparent.Almost all my AVR code runs on ARM.
>
> Back in the days of propriety programers and propriety development
> environments switching chips was hard.  Not so any more
>
> I agree it was the licensing model that case ARM to take over.
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
> 
> --
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> engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Chris Albertson]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 6:54 AM, Stephen Dubovsky 
wrote:

>
> Indeed support is VERY useful.  There are many more ARM forums (and
> professional users) then Arduino.


That is an odd thing to say because Arduino is moving to ARM.

Tool chains used to be such a big deal.  Mostly what you'd be invested in
was the tools.  One never learns a chip, you learn the tools used by that
family of chips.   Then after coming up to speed you don't really want to
go through that again.   But we are seeing a convergence of tools.   There
is Arduino that now works for both AVR and ARM.   Eclipse is universal and
the GNU tool chain is much the same on an ARM M3 as it is one my Apple
iMac, it's just a GNU C compiler.  So "moving to ARM" can be very
transparent.Almost all my AVR code runs on ARM.

Back in the days of propriety programers and propriety development
environments switching chips was hard.  Not so any more

I agree it was the licensing model that case ARM to take over.

-- 

Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[mcgyver]

 
I have several brands  of MCU with Arduino being one. I am wondering if anyone 
on the list has tried a Parallax Propeller for any cnc type app. It ha 8 - 32 
bit processors called cogs.Robert


   
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Stephen Dubovsky  wrote:
> ARM has over 80 licensees for just the Cortex family.  Atmel has... only
> themselves.  If you are going to invest the time & money to setup and
> develop for a chip, not just for a current project but unknown future ones,
> you will likely be better off starting/switching to ARM.

Of course! You can't just avoid ARM---they crept into everything, from
the lowest-lowest end 30-cent Cortex M0s to multi-core 64-bit A53
monsters that compete with Pentiums. I see other companies getting
antsy about their proprietary lines, e.g. TI announcing MSP432 which
is really an ARM with MSP430-like peripherals---although they have
been awfully quiet after announcing it with some fanfare few years
ago. I guess the good'ole MSP430 is selling well.
Such legacy demand is blessing and a curse to vendors like TI and
especially Microchip, who have the amazing zoo of architectures:
several 8, 12, 16, 18, 20 and 24-bit PICs, MIPS (disguised as PIC32)
and now AVR and an ARM line. I guess they will just keep making them
while they have legacy customers---Microchip has a reputation of
almost never abandoning existing customers. There's a nice niche for
companies like them, or Rochester, who still make the 1980's chips
like 9513.
By the same token, though, one shouldn't use them in new designs
unless there was some compelling technical reason, like an exotic
peripheral that only exists on the old chip.

Having said that, the current new kid on the block is RISC-V, which
actually IS open-sourced: it's an academic project which, however, has
some credible industrial partners that are making parts and boards.
It'll of course have hard time getting the breadth of software and
hardware support that ARM has, but I was impressed what they have been
able to achieve so far.
Stephen, did you have a look at them? I guess a guy like you would
have very little incentive to look for an ARM alternative, but maybe
there was something that caught your eye even if you wouldn't plan to
adopt it?

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 24 February 2017 09:54:13 Stephen Dubovsky wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Erik Christiansen
>  wrote:
> ...
>
> > Conversely, why is the ATtiny15
> > "best" for the job at hand? Answer: Because it has a few ADC
> > channels, I have a few of them in my goodies box, AND I'm set up to
> > develop with them.
>
> That last one is big.  "set up to develop them."  I'll expand on that
> in just one second...
>
> > > They are very good, cheap, very common and used by many
> > > manufacturers.
> >
> > Nicklas, that is true for all the microcontrollers doing well on the
> > market.
>
> ARM has over 80 licensees for just the Cortex family.  Atmel has...
> only themselves.  If you are going to invest the time & money to setup
> and develop for a chip, not just for a current project but unknown
> future ones, you will likely be better off starting/switching to ARM. 
> I've been writing embedded code professionally for decades and have
> used darn near everything.  We currently have products using
> Motorola(freescale), Atmel ATMega, Microchip, TI DSP, and ARM in
> production.  Its a *NO BRAINER* that ARM is the winner in the bang for
> the buck and is going into all new products.  The breadth of products
> available is simply unmatched by those other manufacturers combined. 
> Its not that any of the other companies are bad.  Many make a couple
> class leading products, its just their business model is limiting. 
> We've had Renesas try to court us on multiple occasions (RZ family I
> iirc).  They make some really nice products that were faster then the
> ARMs available at the time but in the end I told them - 'your only
> flaw is that it isn't an ARM'.  And that choice proved to be the right
> one as there were ARMs faster than those Renesas cores available
> shortly after.  Renesas makes ARM products too now.  FWIW, We are
> currently alpha testing the STM32H7 - super fun part!
>
> Its not a perfect analogy but ARM is the hardware equivalent to open
> source.  Pay for the core (ok, so not exactly open source) and put
> *ANYTHING* you want around it.  Since this is a forum of Linux users
> that should find broad appeal.  Chip manufacturers have certainly
> voted to support it.
>
> > As the original question specifically referred to Arduino
> > development, it may also be that being able to talk to the Arduino
> > community is also a tangible benefit. It is doubtless more useful
> > than mere CPU evangelism.
>
> Indeed support is VERY useful.  There are many more ARM forums (and
> professional users) then Arduino.  In my professional opinion: 10yrs
> from now ARM will still very much be around.  I wouldn't make the same
> bet on Arduino/ATmega.
>
> 'CPU evangelism' made me chuckle as it is a very apt description. 
> Will remember that phrase:)
>
> Stephen

What Stephen said, from the sidelines observer this battle is now in the 
clean up the casaulties phase, arm won it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Stephen Dubovsky]

On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:47 PM, Erik Christiansen 
wrote:
...

> Conversely, why is the ATtiny15
> "best" for the job at hand? Answer: Because it has a few ADC channels, I
> have a few of them in my goodies box, AND I'm set up to develop with
> them.


That last one is big.  "set up to develop them."  I'll expand on that in
just one second...


>
> > They are very good, cheap, very common and used by many manufacturers.
>
> Nicklas, that is true for all the microcontrollers doing well on the
> market.


ARM has over 80 licensees for just the Cortex family.  Atmel has... only
themselves.  If you are going to invest the time & money to setup and
develop for a chip, not just for a current project but unknown future ones,
you will likely be better off starting/switching to ARM.  I've been writing
embedded code professionally for decades and have used darn near
everything.  We currently have products using Motorola(freescale), Atmel
ATMega, Microchip, TI DSP, and ARM in production.  Its a *NO BRAINER* that
ARM is the winner in the bang for the buck and is going into all new
products.  The breadth of products available is simply unmatched by those
other manufacturers combined.  Its not that any of the other companies are
bad.  Many make a couple class leading products, its just their business
model is limiting.  We've had Renesas try to court us on multiple occasions
(RZ family I iirc).  They make some really nice products that were faster
then the ARMs available at the time but in the end I told them - 'your only
flaw is that it isn't an ARM'.  And that choice proved to be the right one
as there were ARMs faster than those Renesas cores available shortly
after.  Renesas makes ARM products too now.  FWIW, We are currently alpha
testing the STM32H7 - super fun part!

Its not a perfect analogy but ARM is the hardware equivalent to open
source.  Pay for the core (ok, so not exactly open source) and put
*ANYTHING* you want around it.  Since this is a forum of Linux users that
should find broad appeal.  Chip manufacturers have certainly voted to
support it.


>
> As the original question specifically referred to Arduino development,
> it may also be that being able to talk to the Arduino community is also
> a tangible benefit. It is doubtless more useful than mere CPU evangelism.
>

Indeed support is VERY useful.  There are many more ARM forums (and
professional users) then Arduino.  In my professional opinion: 10yrs from
now ARM will still very much be around.  I wouldn't make the same bet on
Arduino/ATmega.

'CPU evangelism' made me chuckle as it is a very apt description.  Will
remember that phrase:)

Stephen
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Martin Dobbins]

Hi Dave,


Being able to step through your program might not be the only advantage 
according to this guy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=648Tx5N9Zoc


Good luck and let us know how you get on.


Martin




From: Dave Cole <linuxcncro...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:02 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

Wow,

Thanks guys...  lots of great info!

I did end up buying the Atmel ICE.   It turned out to be $80 plus
shipping and tax after a $50 coupon which expires on 2/28.   I will feel
better having it available.

This is the full Atmel ICE kit, not the basic kit.

http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice
Atmel-ICE - ATATMEL-ICE | Microchip Technology 
Inc.<http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice>
www.microchip.com
Atmel-ICE is a powerful development tool for debugging and programming ARM® 
Cortex®-M based SAM and AVR microcontrollers with on-chip debug capability.




Thanks
Dave





On 2/23/2017 11:53 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>> Search on ebay for STM32F103.  These are 72MHz ARM Cortex M3 (if I recall).
> I use STM32 and they are indeed very good, the others are similar so if they 
> are the best I do not know.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

Wow,

Thanks guys...  lots of great info!

I did end up buying the Atmel ICE.   It turned out to be $80 plus 
shipping and tax after a $50 coupon which expires on 2/28.   I will feel 
better having it available.

This is the full Atmel ICE kit, not the basic kit.

http://www.microchip.com/developmenttools/productdetails.aspx?partno=atatmel-ice

Thanks
Dave





On 2/23/2017 11:53 AM, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
>> Search on ebay for STM32F103.  These are 72MHz ARM Cortex M3 (if I recall).
> I use STM32 and they are indeed very good, the others are similar so if they 
> are the best I do not know.
>
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 23.02.17 17:51, Nicklas Karlsson wrote:
> Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio is useful but a micro controller with a
> Cortex-M*- CPU is probably a lot better choice.

Nicklas, we are all entitled to our personal preferences, but "Which is
the god-ordained cpu to use" is in this case not the question asked. ;-)
Before saying to a working developer busy debugging an existing
software/hardware implementation, "Chuck out what you're using.", it
just _might_ be worth taking a deep breath and considering that
developer's war chest full of software libraries, reusable components of
past projects, toolchain familiarity, and far from least, understanding
of all the fiddly details of initialising and using the plethora of
peripheral hardware on the chosen microcontroller.

Secondly, "best for _which_ application? In between other stuff, I've
just started on a day/night switch to turn off my brother's goat-paddock
electric fence at night. Rather than lashing together comparator and
timer chips, I can do it on one 8 pin ATtiny15, and add battery
monitoring for free. Is it _really_ vital that we have quad-core 32 bit
cpu power with MMUs for this task? Conversely, why is the ATtiny15
"best" for the job at hand? Answer: Because it has a few ADC channels, I
have a few of them in my goodies box, AND I'm set up to develop with
them. A good cook can make a hearty soup with whatever's in the larder,
and is experienced with local ingredients.

> They are very good, cheap, very common and used by many manufacturers.

Nicklas, that is true for all the microcontrollers doing well on the
market. They are also all fit for a broad variety of purposes, and it
makes no difference on the outside of the box which microcontroller is
inside.

> Most of them if not all will be able to do PWM for DC or 3-phase
> motors and probably the same with a quadrature encoder.

Yes, that is true for so many microcontrollers, and the Atmel AT90PWM[123]
are great little chips for implementing e.g. a 3-phase motor drive, as
they have multiple PWM channels interlinked in hardware. BUT we don't
know that the task at hand _is_ a 3-phase motor drive, do we?

> Most of them if not all have UART and SPI for communication while the
> more expensive also have Ethernet.

If you can find a common and popular microcontroller range which does
_not_ have as much of that as needed, then I'd like to take a look at them.
(For 8 bit, USB can sometimes be more useful than Ethernet, though.)

As the original question specifically referred to Arduino development,
it may also be that being able to talk to the Arduino community is also
a tangible benefit. It is doubtless more useful than mere CPU evangelism.

All that said, I've long thought it would be fun to play with ARM, or
the MSP30 (as it has a higher resolution ADC than AVR, IIRC.), but
starting again at the bottom of the chip learning curve is definitely
not the quickest or most efficient way to achieve a working application
when microcontroller product ranges are mostly much of a muchness.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

> Search on ebay for STM32F103.  These are 72MHz ARM Cortex M3 (if I recall).

I use STM32 and they are indeed very good, the others are similar so if they 
are the best I do not know.

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Nicklas Karlsson]

Atmel ICE and Atmel Studio is useful but a micro controller with a Cortex-M*- 
CPU is probably a lot better choice. They are very good, cheap, very common and 
used by many manufacturers. Most of them if not all will be able to do PWM for 
DC or 3-phase motors and probably the same with a quadrature encoder. Most of 
them if not all have UART and SPI for communication while the more expensive 
also have Ethernet.



On Thu, 23 Feb 2017 19:09:54 +1100
Erik Christiansen  wrote:

> On 22.02.17 09:50, Dave Cole wrote:
> > Is anyone using the ATMEL ICE and Atmel Studio 7 IDE to do Arduino 
> > programming and debug?
> > 
> > http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/
> 
> The Atmel ICE referenced there is fancier than the one I used more
> than a decade ago, at least in the range of targets it supports.
> 
> (I just use the GNU toolchain, as "Unix _is_ the IDE" in my little
> world, and GUIs don't seem worth the inconvenience.)
> 
> > Apparently when using that combo you can do breakpoints during debug.   
>  
> ISTR that even the old one provided several breakpoints, which are
> needed if you have to capture which way the code branched, and there are
> several possibilities.
> 
> > The ICE uses the 6 pins on the Arduino rather than the USB port
> 
> Yes, it talks SPI to on-chip hardware which does the actual RT breakpoint
> matching, IIRC. (So the USB port is a completely unrelated peripheral in
> this context.)
> 
> > and circumvents the regular Arduino boot loader that is used with the
> > Arduino IDE.
> 
> Yes, it also functions a programmer, just like an STK500 or any of the
> AVR programming dongles swarming on the intertubes. It's great for
> programming a new bootloader too, if needed.
> 
> > However Atmel Studio can also be used without circumventing the
> > Arduino boot loader as well. So what is the best way to go?
> 
> Debugging and programming need not be performed with the same device,
> but is most convenient if the debugger doesn't have to be disconnected
> when downloading new code. That should be possible with USB download as
> well, probably, so whatever is easier with a cup of coffee in the other
> hand.
> 
> > I need to do some code debug which is going to be really difficult to
> > debug without using breakpoints.
> 
> For the first two decades of RT embedded software development, I always
> had an ICE, and believed they were essential for the task. Over the
> following decade I learned that a hell of a lot can be done without, and
> stopping at a breakpoint can be inferior to capturing a snapshot byte or
> two in RAM, then logging them via the UART, to a monitoring PC. BUT,
> even in that last decade, there _were_ times when we made sure there was
> an ICE at our elbow, even if it had to be shipped in from Japan, as in
> the case of the NEC V850 target.
> 
> At $60, I'd snaffle one, just as insurance for meeting project deadlines.
> (Even if the project is just DIY stuff.)
> 
> > Print statements via the Arduino IDE is not going to cut it.  Life is
> > too short.
> 
> When developing an 8-channel PABX phone interface card, using an
> ATmega64, I made sure we had the UART going first, and logged such
> things as per-channel state transitions via that. It turned out better
> than an ICE, because it gave more insight _and_ didn't stop the
> multi-threaded multi-instance state machines; the itty-bitty OS kept
> chugging, with its timer service, so that software timers could still
> elapse, even as we were capturing debug guff.
> 
> A breakpoint is a crowbar in the gears - not always the best debugging
> solution in RT applications. Development can be faster without an ICE,
> if you hold your mouth right. ;-))
> 
> > Is using the Atmel ICE the way to go, or is simply using the Atmel
> > Studio 7 IDE sufficient for difficult debugs.
> 
> > The Atmel  ICE interface is only $60, Atmel Studio is a free download,
> > so its really not expensive.
> 
> Yep, it's amazingly cheap, and it is comforting to know it's in the box
> under the desk. I'd give it a whirl, but e.g. building the code up from
> a little round-robin scheduler blinking a LED, to running two tasks,
> each blinking at a different rate, to multi-threaded multi-instance
> state machines, means each capability increment has little to debug, and
> logging might be just as good, in practice.
> 
> It's cheap peace of mind, innit?
> 
> Hopefully attempting to answer your questions is a bit more useful than
> chirruping names and numbers of other CPUs that you're not using. Yes,
> we all have our favourites, and the use-my-cpu-with-cream-cheese-and-pickles
> non-answers crop up on other lists as well. Sigh.
> 
> Sometimes I pick up a sub-$10 (including postage and USB cable) Arduino
> board and a bare "shield" on Ebay, just to use as cheap quick hardware,
> blow away the bootloader, and use it as a bare ATmega328P, hitting it
> with GCC and a programmer. (Just don't tell anyone 

Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Gregg Eshelman]

There's the STM Discovery boards like the STM32F3 and STM32F4.
There's a ton of aftermarket stuff for the F4 board.
Not so much for the F3 to start with, but a quick Google turns up some 
interesting addons for both. I also see there's a newer version of the F3 with 
some mention of mass storage support. The one I have is not that one, got it 
free right after product launch.

One of the first applications the F3 Discovery was put to was a quadcopter 
controller, utilizing its digital accelerometer and force sensors and compass. 
The F4 board can't do that because it doesn't have the gyro and compass. 
https://github.com/zegervdv/Quadcopter

Would be neat if someone wrote a dead reckoning navigation system for it that 
could bring a drone back to its launch point. During such action it would 
actually be a drone instead of an RPV.
I also have an Xmos startKIT dev board sitting unused. It has a PCIe x1 
connector (NOT actually a PCIe slot!) for their "slice card" peripherals. It 
has a spot to solder in an original Raspberry Pi compatible header. Xmos 
cheaped out on their freebie, none of the 0.1" headers are included.
Anyone want them? Send me $8 by PayPal and I'll put them both in a small flat 
rate box. Regular parcel post would likely be less but I'd have to pack them 
and know the address and get it weighed to find the postage.
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Erik Christiansen]

On 22.02.17 09:50, Dave Cole wrote:
> Is anyone using the ATMEL ICE and Atmel Studio 7 IDE to do Arduino 
> programming and debug?
> 
> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/

The Atmel ICE referenced there is fancier than the one I used more
than a decade ago, at least in the range of targets it supports.

(I just use the GNU toolchain, as "Unix _is_ the IDE" in my little
world, and GUIs don't seem worth the inconvenience.)

> Apparently when using that combo you can do breakpoints during debug.   
 
ISTR that even the old one provided several breakpoints, which are
needed if you have to capture which way the code branched, and there are
several possibilities.

> The ICE uses the 6 pins on the Arduino rather than the USB port

Yes, it talks SPI to on-chip hardware which does the actual RT breakpoint
matching, IIRC. (So the USB port is a completely unrelated peripheral in
this context.)

> and circumvents the regular Arduino boot loader that is used with the
> Arduino IDE.

Yes, it also functions a programmer, just like an STK500 or any of the
AVR programming dongles swarming on the intertubes. It's great for
programming a new bootloader too, if needed.

> However Atmel Studio can also be used without circumventing the
> Arduino boot loader as well. So what is the best way to go?

Debugging and programming need not be performed with the same device,
but is most convenient if the debugger doesn't have to be disconnected
when downloading new code. That should be possible with USB download as
well, probably, so whatever is easier with a cup of coffee in the other
hand.

> I need to do some code debug which is going to be really difficult to
> debug without using breakpoints.

For the first two decades of RT embedded software development, I always
had an ICE, and believed they were essential for the task. Over the
following decade I learned that a hell of a lot can be done without, and
stopping at a breakpoint can be inferior to capturing a snapshot byte or
two in RAM, then logging them via the UART, to a monitoring PC. BUT,
even in that last decade, there _were_ times when we made sure there was
an ICE at our elbow, even if it had to be shipped in from Japan, as in
the case of the NEC V850 target.

At $60, I'd snaffle one, just as insurance for meeting project deadlines.
(Even if the project is just DIY stuff.)

> Print statements via the Arduino IDE is not going to cut it.  Life is
> too short.

When developing an 8-channel PABX phone interface card, using an
ATmega64, I made sure we had the UART going first, and logged such
things as per-channel state transitions via that. It turned out better
than an ICE, because it gave more insight _and_ didn't stop the
multi-threaded multi-instance state machines; the itty-bitty OS kept
chugging, with its timer service, so that software timers could still
elapse, even as we were capturing debug guff.

A breakpoint is a crowbar in the gears - not always the best debugging
solution in RT applications. Development can be faster without an ICE,
if you hold your mouth right. ;-))

> Is using the Atmel ICE the way to go, or is simply using the Atmel
> Studio 7 IDE sufficient for difficult debugs.

> The Atmel  ICE interface is only $60, Atmel Studio is a free download,
> so its really not expensive.

Yep, it's amazingly cheap, and it is comforting to know it's in the box
under the desk. I'd give it a whirl, but e.g. building the code up from
a little round-robin scheduler blinking a LED, to running two tasks,
each blinking at a different rate, to multi-threaded multi-instance
state machines, means each capability increment has little to debug, and
logging might be just as good, in practice.

It's cheap peace of mind, innit?

Hopefully attempting to answer your questions is a bit more useful than
chirruping names and numbers of other CPUs that you're not using. Yes,
we all have our favourites, and the use-my-cpu-with-cream-cheese-and-pickles
non-answers crop up on other lists as well. Sigh.

Sometimes I pick up a sub-$10 (including postage and USB cable) Arduino
board and a bare "shield" on Ebay, just to use as cheap quick hardware,
blow away the bootloader, and use it as a bare ATmega328P, hitting it
with GCC and a programmer. (Just don't tell anyone that I do most of the
programming in assembler, especially the state machines, for which I
have a mini "language" created with assembler macros.)

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Chris Albertson]

These and the like are all over eBay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F103C8T6-ARM-STM32-Minimum-System-Development-Board-Module-For-Arduino-DHUS-/321569700934?hash=item4adf0c3c46:g:Q7AAAOSw0kNXhGr~

The search term is "minimum system arm"

There are two types both under $5 but I'm using the STM32F103 based parts.
  These are 72MHz clocked 32-bit CPUs with 64K flash.  No floating point.
See below if you need that.

I have several of the above and can program them with Arduino IDE.  Someone
wrote a boot loader but I mostly use the ST-Link from ST Micro and flash it
without using a boot loader.There are a number of free tool chains

Another one I like costs more ($13.83 at Digikey) but is much more powerful
as it has hardware floating point
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/stmicroelectronics/NUCLEO-F401RE/497-14360-ND/4695525

ST makes a large range of Nucleo boards.  The "401" is a good starting
point.   Notice the board is design so you can cut it.  It actually snaps
in half so you can remove the programmer.   Also you can pull the jumper
blocks and "remove it.But here is the good part the Nucleo programmer
works with the STM32F103 board from eBay if you can rig a few jumper wires
with female ends.   Or buy a clone of the ST-Link which is the same thing.

Also there is the "TI Launchpad" from Texas Instruments that sell for about
$10 and some of them have TI's ARM chip.  But for the same price I think
Nucleo offers more flexibility.

But you can't beat the price of the minimum ARM system on eBay.  I've seen
them for as low as $3 with are shipping but now it looks like they $4 each
shipped

As I said Arduino IDE works but look up  "mbed"  It is a free RTOS and IDE
that is web based or if you don't like that it can be CLI based or Eclipse
based.  It is almost as easy to use as Arduino but a real multi-tasking
RTOS that runs on these little ARM Cortex M chips.

REMEBER.  The ARM Cortex M is a micro controller that competes with Atmel
AVR and the larger 32-bit PIC.  Clock speed is on the order of 100 MHz.
The ARM Cortex A is the more powerful type that runs Linux and is likely
inside your cell phone. Clock is on the order of 1 Ghz and many of the "A
type" are multi core, up to quad core.   So, no, you can't buy a computer
that runs Linux for $2.83   To run Linux you need something like a Pi3 for
$35.   The Pi3 needs about 1 amp to run.  The typical M0 can run on
literally micro-amps, like a coin size battery.  (Well, uA if you
understand power management.  mA if you don't.)


On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 7:26 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:

> On 2/22/2017 12:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> > Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
> > moved away from AVR.
>
> I'm missing something.
>
> Where can you buy ARM based boards for under $5.00?  Or did you mean $50 ?
>
> The Arduino Zero is $54 -$40 and the Neutrino, the kickstarter clone of
> the Zero is $19 if you can buy one.
> Both boards also work with the Atmel ICE as well apparently.
>
> Dave
>
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Groups]

The Teensy3.1 is under $20
Cheers

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 23 Feb 2017, at 2:26 pm, Dave Cole  wrote:
> 
>> On 2/22/2017 12:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
>> moved away from AVR.
> 
> I'm missing something.
> 
> Where can you buy ARM based boards for under $5.00?  Or did you mean $50 ?
> 
> The Arduino Zero is $54 -$40 and the Neutrino, the kickstarter clone of 
> the Zero is $19 if you can buy one.
> Both boards also work with the Atmel ICE as well apparently.
> 
> Dave
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Ralph Stirling]

Search on ebay for STM32F103.  These are 72MHz ARM Cortex M3 (if I recall).

They are as easy to use as an Arduino Mini Pro, but a bit more trouble than an 
Arduino Nano, as you need to use a usb to ttl serial cable to download.  These 
aren't in the same league as a Pi, but way better than an AVR.

-- Ralph

On Feb 22, 2017 7:26 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:
On 2/22/2017 12:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
> moved away from AVR.

I'm missing something.

Where can you buy ARM based boards for under $5.00?  Or did you mean $50 ?

The Arduino Zero is $54 -$40 and the Neutrino, the kickstarter clone of
the Zero is $19 if you can buy one.
Both boards also work with the Atmel ICE as well apparently.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 10:26 PM, Dave Cole  wrote:
> On 2/22/2017 12:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
>> Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
>> moved away from AVR.
>
> I'm missing something.
>
> Where can you buy ARM based boards for under $5.00?  Or did you mean $50 ?
>
> The Arduino Zero is $54 -$40 and the Neutrino, the kickstarter clone of
> the Zero is $19 if you can buy one.
> Both boards also work with the Atmel ICE as well apparently.
>
Maybe it's like the audiophile market---high prices for the unwary enthusiast.
Look for STM32 Arduino instead: http://www.stm32duino.com/
and the actual product that seems to be $2-$3 on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/252412486813?lpid=82=ps_noapp=true

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Dave Cole]

On 2/22/2017 12:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote:
> Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
> moved away from AVR.

I'm missing something.

Where can you buy ARM based boards for under $5.00?  Or did you mean $50 ?

The Arduino Zero is $54 -$40 and the Neutrino, the kickstarter clone of 
the Zero is $19 if you can buy one.
Both boards also work with the Atmel ICE as well apparently.

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] OT - Arduino development - Atmel ICE useful ?

[Chris Albertson]

Now that ARM based boards are available for under $5 I've completely
moved away from AVR.  I can get 32-bits and faster performance for the
same price and form factor.Once you move to ARM the available
programming options explode.I can still use the Arduino IDE on ARM
but there are many other options almost all of which offer debugging.

But for AVR, Atmel's system is a good way to go.

There are some open source JTAG debuggers but that will not help you
with a bare AVR chip.Look at ARM M0 or M4 for the next project

On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 6:50 AM, Dave Cole  wrote:
>
> Guys,
>
> I figure if anyone would know..  it would be one of you since I know
> some of you have done a lot of Arduino development.
>
> Is anyone using the ATMEL ICE and Atmel Studio 7 IDE to do Arduino
> programming and debug?
>
> http://blog.solutions-cubed.com/debugging-arduino-sketches-with-atmel-studio-7/
>
> Apparently when using that combo you can do breakpoints during debug.
> The ICE uses the 6 pins on the Arduino rather than the USB port and
> circumvents the regular Arduino boot loader that is used with the
> Arduino IDE.However Atmel Studio can also be used without
> circumventing the Arduino boot loader as well.So what is the best
> way to go?
>
> I need to do some code debug which is going to be really difficult to
> debug without using breakpoints.
>
> Print statements via the Arduino IDE is not going to cut it.  Life is
> too short.
>
> Is using the Atmel ICE the way to go, or is simply using the Atmel
> Studio 7 IDE sufficient for difficult debugs.
>
> The Atmel  ICE interface is only $60, Atmel Studio is a free download,
> so its really not expensive.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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