Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04.02.2015 19:07, Alexander Buchner wrote: On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote: I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system: @@@:~$ gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16 Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Home: ~/.gnupg Supported algorithms: Pubkey: RSA, RSA-E, RSA-S, ELG-E, DSA Cipher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH, CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256 Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, Now I tried gpg2 under Ubuntu and directly stumbled upon a bug with refreshing public keys: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnupg2/+bug/1421640 For those of you who have the same problem, please support this bug report. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 06.02.15 23:30, Doug Barton wrote: [...] By that same token, what compelling use case does 2.0.x provide that 1.4.x does not? The gpg-agent is interesting, and potentially useful for heavy command line PGP users; but for Enigmail's purposes you've already got that covered. Personally I would still not have upgraded any of my systems if I hadn't needed to work on 2.0.x support for my (Al)pine PGP package. For example the ability to properly handle different passwords for different keys. Plus the fact that the password is better not kept in Thunderbird but in a separate process, where it cannot be attacked by a combination of a buggy mail client and a malicious mail. OTOH, if you want to use Enigmail to advocate for the position that users _should_ migrate to 2.0.x, that's a whole different kettle of fish. I disagree quite strongly with your position, but I can't stop you either. :) More and more this sounds like you've already made up your mind. So again, good luck with the support burden you're creating for yourself. Not at all. I certainly have my position, but if someone would bring up a _strong_ reason that I was not aware of I could change my mind. However, this didn't happen yet ;-) - -Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU1dbeAAoJENsRh7ndX2k75Z0P/i0vBHQ1884UXP7JFZQ9he2O tAMw+FiVUNZ7q9Ig7gs+knD0k0pgy8FgOXJH0fboChh+rON4j4B0Yk9nJL56KmC4 J8dVcqbRrXf2gKfU9yuGPHVTlwtElPuuIFQhL/1BuCMx+Ctwba22w5Bgl28yMs3s WVSksKrzlbENrKcgZxqTtyZfxY0JNUEKYK0vom0dTk4g466boQm31lAfC7KwW7Ir qUSf0TU/J1nejMtDLrUpF60jg1bPjpXaaiJhwCaIel38ua48bE/gYRVe+aKIhQcd 9hvUp7wJAPquaITM81PENrjHDFJNnNmOFqVJxssuNZXkNIjVPdHk53n7qlH7jX4b NCyh2Cshz3al6JPsqXGoLG10zA/RYevJqyQhGZvtBx9ghDoJ+jXUtUlEJ3YO3NCR HrshchBQ4SUY8u/7UoCwflxIS9SqsFdQDxdh3iMfJNRfIoSqGI/KqiCnF1oDuzzK ce3nt/2smqWOyWmXkXMelOmlGJ9dTZk/3QXdfXJy/S1vJ07YhEWiYdxeJERe87Ru Y3atl0ilN/wf23WiWUIYWCzHWYjjQyQnfF+1LwjD5h+7H/DKzkReJLzPZOgQGuAz yNdMPb2HvHVG6K2PCzJLcEzLbaPtTkjtWSpORqnYEPyGs/K9jS4tKFMGQraBny/u 2J6e9DLHcqR6J3KK01i+ =snOt -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 07.02.15 00:24, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/6/15 3:05 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: By that same token, what compelling use case does 2.0.x provide that 1.4.x does not? Werner has several times made various noises about stopping work on 1.4, as for a very long time he's been operating on a paper-thin budget of time and resources. If the workload on 2.1 increases 1.4 won't get dropped, but it'll get further and further behind feature parity with the 2.1 series. Doing an upgrade now to 2.0 guarantees that we won't be caught flat-footed if-and-when GnuPG 1.4 stops receiving updates. ... except that the support for GnuPG 2.0.x is already in Enigmail. Removing support for 1.4.x helps exactly 0 users, unless you agree with Patrick that Enigmail should be used as a lever to encourage users to upgrade. The gpg-agent is interesting, and potentially useful for heavy command line PGP users; but for Enigmail's purposes you've already got that covered. Except for bugs in it. I see no clamor from 1.4.x users to improve password caching for Enigmail. Am I missing something? FWIW, I collected a list of bugs that are either only related to GnuPG 1.4, or that are only there because we still support GnuPG 1.4. I'm sure there are more bugs that my quick search didn't find. Most of these bugs are wont-fix, but in fact they are all true unfixed bugs. If I would want to fix all of these bugs _properly_, I'd estimate it would take at least a full release cycle and cause major changes to the code in Enigmail. https://sourceforge.net/p/enigmail/bugs/search/?q=labels%3Agpg1.4 - -Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU1fWdAAoJENsRh7ndX2k7TjQP/RLZxGbnfIBVxm44yzC9ObeQ WaLza3fVM7A2HwbOOIcOR2uLWyg0YRzPWwvHn7YI7H1VnwOCUPJxcAlV5aGUMjVi BAIbcaPW2EDvGqn7MoGEvHWK0iAerZEJQ/DSHUOLdnsqHael+B1nwnMiUZ3cLQOf WB5IxzAhDL6DjzZGhJyHR6d5YiC3ujqgC6wxsSKKdi9O3uNXJjprufapR/9lNoxr IqTrsEKNBOcdW7cmCweRVQZ+m8hyAQrsXrMGaxXiAhjsHxPLIjZQpYvXmGjUbPSY ymLHFbRIVTjwSX6cq+KixtZv7aaQo5AC5+CPEM4XFNhMLXPQyo+a7VgUJPKA5KpO CwYI3kCj+ruOtVYEK5OM92h71XqiyiJ34fcxSHcS58dqXTdv6RmJrErmA9tGDMOO DPzhMl2XCcC9L4V6BQ3T03JqidRkycUDIhSDd5FkK0vi9JsmqOVekcTOcQthU02l VXiXQ2mavWxHpjdloWpJu6pZW7a/jzHoNsQKzC6ftpYocpEvwgpoYnseQCzIeyOX +P0GOTxVC45yLsRXU4Vl6xK6Zx4TCG3U4LXsA8FLiIz1hDz7TQLxGK2VLtrUu1QA yRoIKAlXZjJ5aoR+Sbi7dumHlt3DdZlEU1IN1vnz79qUING2qwzyYnY3crR3lbh/ OUeqkSBrA/MYfv4mY1nN =lvs9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
You're contradicting decades of experience with users being dragged kicking and screaming to upgrade to new versions of things, long after the one they're using is EOL. How many requests for help do we get on gnupg-users related to prehistoric versions of PGP, for example? Not many anymore. And the choice is between an orderly upgrade path or a panicked one, and that's an easy call to make. And I sincerely doubt that Werner is going to yank the rug out from under the community on a 1.4.x EOL in any case. So I find your scenario here very dubious. It's come very close to happening, multiple times. Until very recently Werner had been underpaid and undersupported, and he's got a wife and young daughter to support. Summer of 2013 he almost pulled the plug on the whole thing in order to take a regular paying job to support his family. http://www.propublica.org/article/the-worlds-email-encryption-software-relies-on-one-guy-who-is-going-broke Nicolai, speaking for Enigmail, said If there is one nightmare that we fear, then it's the fact that Werner Koch is no longer available ... It's a shame that he is alone and that he has such a bad financial situation. And he's absolutely right. I'm breathing easier now that Werner's got some funding, but if you think we haven't been close to losing Werner -- or that it couldn't happen again -- then you're just naïve. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
By that same token, what compelling use case does 2.0.x provide that 1.4.x does not? Werner has several times made various noises about stopping work on 1.4, as for a very long time he's been operating on a paper-thin budget of time and resources. If the workload on 2.1 increases 1.4 won't get dropped, but it'll get further and further behind feature parity with the 2.1 series. Doing an upgrade now to 2.0 guarantees that we won't be caught flat-footed if-and-when GnuPG 1.4 stops receiving updates. Right now he's maintaining three distinct branches. I'm (pleasantly!) surprised he's managed to do it this far, but I don't expect it will go on much longer. The gpg-agent is interesting, and potentially useful for heavy command line PGP users; but for Enigmail's purposes you've already got that covered. Except for bugs in it. Upgrading to 2.0 means we eat our broccoli, deal with some support issues, and manage to cut a large chunk of the codebase which we know has bugs in it. That, too, is a compelling case for 2.0.x. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/5/15 11:35 PM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: On 05.02.15 21:02, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/4/15 11:01 PM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: The question is not so much the effort - you won't get a figure from me. The main concern is code complexity, which makes things hard to read, understand, develop, improve or fix. Yes, I get that. :) But without some sort of quantification it's impossible to intelligently answer the question, Is the cost of keeping the 1.x code in worth it compared to the benefit of allowing Enigmail users to continue to use 1.x? From my perspective, until the majority of OS' that ship GnuPG are shipping 2.x by default, removing 1.x support is premature. I should add that I'm using that transition as a bellwether of sorts, as I *think* that seeing this transition will also indicate that the majority of end users have switched, and are comfortable with the ways that GnuPG 2 is different. The majority of the OS would be Linux and other Unix derivatives only. ... which according to Ludwig's stats are 42% of your user base. On Windows and Mac OS X, the two most common GnuPG tools would ship 2.0.x. For OS X I tend to agree. For Windows (51%) I continue to maintain that there are way more 1.x users than you seem to be accounting for. I would guesstimate that they are probably still the majority, but I have no hard data on that. It's worth pointing out that for Unix'y users (Linux and OS X) being able to do gpg-agent and ssh-agent in the same binary provided *some* compelling use case for the upgrade. However even that didn't exist for Windows users until very recently, and anyone who needs ssh-agent on Windows already has PuTTY. And for Linux, how long do you want to wait any longer? As I wrote, GnuPG 2.0 was released *8* years ago. If that transition didn't happen automatically by now, then I think it's time to enforce it. The arguments for Linux distributions to stick to GnuPG 1.4 seem to be quite weak to me. By that same token, what compelling use case does 2.0.x provide that 1.4.x does not? The gpg-agent is interesting, and potentially useful for heavy command line PGP users; but for Enigmail's purposes you've already got that covered. Personally I would still not have upgraded any of my systems if I hadn't needed to work on 2.0.x support for my (Al)pine PGP package. OTOH, if you want to use Enigmail to advocate for the position that users _should_ migrate to 2.0.x, that's a whole different kettle of fish. I disagree quite strongly with your position, but I can't stop you either. :) More and more this sounds like you've already made up your mind. So again, good luck with the support burden you're creating for yourself. Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/6/15 3:58 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: ... except that the support for GnuPG 2.0.x is already in Enigmail. You're misunderstanding who I'm talking about when I say we're caught flat-footed. I don't mean us-the-developers. I mean us-the-community. If 1.4 gets EOLed there's going to be a mad rush of people trying to upgrade, and then that tidal flood you're worried about *will* happen. You're contradicting decades of experience with users being dragged kicking and screaming to upgrade to new versions of things, long after the one they're using is EOL. How many requests for help do we get on gnupg-users related to prehistoric versions of PGP, for example? And I sincerely doubt that Werner is going to yank the rug out from under the community on a 1.4.x EOL in any case. So I find your scenario here very dubious. If that was the only reason for doing this, it would still be sufficient -- IMO -- to justify the decision. Ok, so this move is at least partially about encouraging users to move off of 1.4.x, and AFAICS is a done deal in any case. That's different from what we were told, but it's neither my decision, nor my problem. :) Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
... except that the support for GnuPG 2.0.x is already in Enigmail. You're misunderstanding who I'm talking about when I say we're caught flat-footed. I don't mean us-the-developers. I mean us-the-community. If 1.4 gets EOLed there's going to be a mad rush of people trying to upgrade, and then that tidal flood you're worried about *will* happen. Compare this to if the next version of Enigmail checks to see if GnuPG 1.4 is being used, and if so, puts up a one-time screen saying Hello! You're using an old version of GnuPG. In 2016 Enigmail will start requiring GnuPG 2. You can download it for your operating system at... [insert OS-specific link here]. And the check could be repeated once a month, giving polite prompts to people still running 1.4 to upgrade. One involves a mad rush, and the other is a more orderly walk towards the exit. If that was the only reason for doing this, it would still be sufficient -- IMO -- to justify the decision. Removing support for 1.4.x helps exactly 0 users... It helps users by encouraging them to migrate to a newer codebase which has much better support and maintenance. And it helps users by axing out a large chunk of code that has been the source of serious bugs in the past, and which -- IMO -- almost certainly still has serious bugs in it. (Which is absolutely no slight on the skill or professionalism of the developers.) I see no clamor from 1.4.x users to improve password caching for Enigmail. Am I missing something? Yes. Look at the bug tracker. For the Enigmail devs, sure, that's a compelling use case. :) And again, I sincerely hope I'm wrong that some support issues will actually be a tidal wave of unhappy users ... I'm pretty sure you're wrong. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/6/15 3:05 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: By that same token, what compelling use case does 2.0.x provide that 1.4.x does not? Werner has several times made various noises about stopping work on 1.4, as for a very long time he's been operating on a paper-thin budget of time and resources. If the workload on 2.1 increases 1.4 won't get dropped, but it'll get further and further behind feature parity with the 2.1 series. Doing an upgrade now to 2.0 guarantees that we won't be caught flat-footed if-and-when GnuPG 1.4 stops receiving updates. ... except that the support for GnuPG 2.0.x is already in Enigmail. Removing support for 1.4.x helps exactly 0 users, unless you agree with Patrick that Enigmail should be used as a lever to encourage users to upgrade. The gpg-agent is interesting, and potentially useful for heavy command line PGP users; but for Enigmail's purposes you've already got that covered. Except for bugs in it. I see no clamor from 1.4.x users to improve password caching for Enigmail. Am I missing something? Upgrading to 2.0 means we eat our broccoli, deal with some support issues, and manage to cut a large chunk of the codebase which we know has bugs in it. That, too, is a compelling case for 2.0.x. For the Enigmail devs, sure, that's a compelling use case. :) And again, I sincerely hope I'm wrong that some support issues will actually be a tidal wave of unhappy users ... Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 06.02.15 00:33, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/5/15 3:26 PM, Ian Mann wrote: With old equipment can the user remain on 1.x with an old version of enigma? No, that's the point of this exercise, to remove 1.x support altogether. :) I'd formulate it a little differently. As long as you stick to an old version of Thunderbird, you won't need the latest Enigmail version and as long as this is true, you won't need GnuPG 2.0. But if you keep Thunderbird up to date (which is what I recommend) than you will need to upgrade GnuPG. But on which old equipment would GnuPG 2.0 not run? It doesn't require more resources than GnuPG 1.4. As long as you can run Thunderbird, you will also be able to run GnuPG 2.0 -- and that's true for _all_ versions of Thunderbird down to 1.0. - -Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU1HEOAAoJENsRh7ndX2k7GFEQAKv1JM8Yah1KaMjQYbAmXNKb EiZnM+K+bEr44s1DHBOOIVFtWyeJwC2Z6ZB98kRShBFIGkLzq5t91KR7KFCUiSh+ xaS8TExJ88LQ5UE+cIQnHdR+6anlSdOnQXB2HoJKkFU6YqKk3AjAgvbx+bruiUjp lwP9F2/HkAEK/rnGaIvovaaFO/46m3wgjJC79eCfMyVTC3VL6VRhenqfiTG8PMnU RVwWc/e6fW1KS+sDmbYGyt3kpC5a+To1NeyJn/1dvvE4uf3sIVLpsXaPEh3NYoTG DALKFPYl4O3yhy6bnGP0InkLYU+Kk4c7ydodDdDzP3qRG9lmZlgeuBfPhik5Odp5 UNPJKJ74bS7DEGTGBGlpxXMQ47bHYntGAeRyXUS/V67MKBRahgYAP2pVYva6jw2u 0yw7n6zB1WP9DQFKQP/EKOm3049rCkkGXvaspdniUkcgEeCVk2YEBYsyVVVEVzzK y4labdaF1RJh5fTLc44ueyLVLbjgznTk58g98apNoN+CJN8UIX9lpgtyuUj+PKBn IZ6VTUsT4W+oujWe8VC6Ov8wGcaTVDpyjcwWsEYDeMGAo3Bp4CTabQ94J4GWKfN8 Si9RWGWMGCU9o6/LsjhS0JGVbHEsx8UGWnBe54rjbSUzILCLrDjA/EbcQHtG7iH7 ePK6CNau/oybSh5WCKhp =4WYs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 05.02.15 21:02, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/4/15 11:01 PM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: The question is not so much the effort - you won't get a figure from me. The main concern is code complexity, which makes things hard to read, understand, develop, improve or fix. Yes, I get that. :) But without some sort of quantification it's impossible to intelligently answer the question, Is the cost of keeping the 1.x code in worth it compared to the benefit of allowing Enigmail users to continue to use 1.x? From my perspective, until the majority of OS' that ship GnuPG are shipping 2.x by default, removing 1.x support is premature. I should add that I'm using that transition as a bellwether of sorts, as I *think* that seeing this transition will also indicate that the majority of end users have switched, and are comfortable with the ways that GnuPG 2 is different. The majority of the OS would be Linux and other Unix derivatives only. On Windows and Mac OS X, the two most common GnuPG tools would ship 2.0.x. And for Linux, how long do you want to wait any longer? As I wrote, GnuPG 2.0 was released *8* years ago. If that transition didn't happen automatically by now, then I think it's time to enforce it. The arguments for Linux distributions to stick to GnuPG 1.4 seem to be quite weak to me. - -Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU1G7ZAAoJENsRh7ndX2k7oJgP/2DRtbfFXjhd3zjLgwCXc+g8 Zcs5US5IdG6NP397JJ/VKsqtbKYaiVFPw4LEoGmsfj1ZizRWpkopU6P1JqyrYayH gcI5QDN7FPVLcg8I/fjGK03HhKOOyw1eL4wR7WC4ZWSh9NNdBAGXbZII2p1xWyDt 6H+A8N0v8yT5SeGyPzIPmc3nS+YvoS3QFY0rqCKxtwZgg8ch5aNA7+TqqFxrn+o4 5BzQRe1Ii8IQHAJM/S0156/GX/S3bmTTLJpU8CGeQREwDvV+oraUi21msg7mBJTJ 7XJ7kd7BPUZOi03LnsG9ZwQ/E6n60jNHR5rzhkpDACdlO3Iaq5zj4CL4NVAxMQaR 3vnkWonJcqnl+JNWr0PYtmwkkTZDydH6Viw3NifEdBVTJW3rQMSggdwm+MxDFt01 ywH7IyMzf6WWTpYKex7LTjN+X8toTACJtL/e6oXRs7eyb3/x8RZtR5RCoucqZqZp /uRYIRWFMYtEc9xE1AaASV/QgtJUEtJgtgRByUMthGOx3j65jm02gih2t65JduBv wAU/6Hu8jMnPTWWopBuWw+rHYoHn+qrNcLVhjafcBukRQQaxSVSlGssIa8tHMNGf 83gTifd4hbfrIfu5O56v53N3KY3zCi3ZdsEF6+z+/Z2ti1got3+cFdjdbp2PDx29 5VPuLAG/F1wkcaDxrHzk =GxRd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 05.02.15 16:46, Philip Jackson wrote: On 04/02/15 18:13, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: My plan is as follows: * Enigmail 1.8.x will still support GnuPG 1.4.x. However, if Enigmail detects GnuPG 1.4.x, a message will be displayed saying that GnuPG 1.4.x is considered deprecated and will no longer be supported in future major versions of Enigmail. * Enigmail 1.9.x will not support GnuPG 1.4.x anymore. We will either point users to a web page from where they can download GnuPG 2.x, or we will offer to install GnuPG 2.x directly from Enigmail (just like the wizard already does it). A decision for which way to go is not yet taken. I expect to release Enigmail 1.9 in late Q3 or Q4 2015. Please let me know if this would cause major issues that I'm not aware of. I've read the whole thread (and sub-threads) so far but no-one has mentioned GnuPG 2.1 (with the exception of Ludwig who points out that it cannot co-exist with 2.0). Patrick comes close in that he refers to 2.x. I use 2.0.26 with latest enigmail nightlies and although the number of emails using ECC is low at present, it will surely increase. Enigmail presently does not give a satisfactorily complete response to an email signed with an ECC certificate. Would it be worthwhile having enigmail pass straight to GnuPG 2.1 ? I would say that's a too big step. We waited for 8 years for GnuPG 2.0 to be rock-solid; GnuPG 2.1 is not yet there. There are still a number of issues that would disturb users who come from GnuPG 1.4 (e.g. dropped support for OpenPGP v3 keys). - -Patrick -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJU05RRAAoJENsRh7ndX2k7SYEP/2Bqt226Y9dF+fvXFgG6TZOt 6ASAZBzGNFRVE757+FMjjdzFcTkM6BgXlzNb1WZFvIR37Yfk/aGfnet+sf3cFzIZ 9k9toZPhhyOhAT5HqG0PmFPaDQ6Hgat0mq64yTHEm/tHvZw0dxQXLfBybut5qZA9 4x8s+z3RfaQKZ0YE2ibkv29ioENsEZxqWds5+ochgjtDC72skCtdz/L0qfePn0s4 hT/wcGOrvo9sUbbDzrrvKHXBKMoqXdBtim+jV6bp8B9r3yAt7hDggcnZbKh4u8mp rqYexqJ/Vxkc1Tth+sDZXSNa/cRP1sd4jFOpnZ1DXEY6AiI2UUye2XFsX0RTD4X6 FImAiZs1ULqqVUTgx20cpcjKFNqF2JRhU9zvzaN7DPX49G6akVHUTcgDeDQUJ07O 2Xi9qS8dvg6l2ZuL9iKUPlzClQ4bSmaNu1QakY6ugFP92teag/1uIQ7E7pspLAUS p2RxBnX4Nyn0MOy9EyudHOeC8Tw9t5FUPtdce7UhIzmqcWxLBbWbwxutLvp5jrpH B/hnNGvaxrxNit88nn8MbudRy6SEVLNtrvajw/jtE3BNAF7G39IKecYg2pkcuOSy uz3VWPGXXSOPGovmVPWnZJ4KHPJDnd82jnVEdKHgzwTHXYZyEPgaqoGhsetzNXq3 R/kjrxt6Ud8w7lkeCAOn =zjNT -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 05/02/15 21:02, Doug Barton wrote: From my perspective, until the majority of OS' that ship GnuPG are shipping 2.x by default, removing 1.x support is premature. I should add that I'm using that transition as a bellwether of sorts, as I *think* that seeing this transition will also indicate that the majority of end users have switched, and are comfortable with the ways that GnuPG 2 is different. I used Gpg4win very successfully on Windows7, 64 bit for quite some time and became 'addicted' to Kleopatra. So when I changed from Windows to Ubuntu last year, I was disappointed to find that the distro 'only' had Gnupg 1.4.16 running as standard. Gnupg 2.0.22 was available as a package so I installed it, hoping to regain use of Kleopatra amongst other things. Unfortunately, I couldn't get the Ubuntu package of 2.0.22 to work for reasons that I did not understand and was glad that I had 1.4.16 to fall back on for emails etc during the time it took me to learn how to build my own from source which I eventually did with gnupg 2.0.26. It worked fine. (Unfortunately, I did not find Kleopatra as good as I had remembered with Windows.) I get the party line that we encourage people to use the packaged version, which will fix the dependency problem, etc. etc. But we've benefited from a significant decrease in support problems ever since the machine-dependent code was removed from Enigmail, and You must use the packaged version! became untrue. As noted above, I had no success with the packaged 2.0.22. I never used the packaged version of enigmail although Thunderbird is the distro packaged version. I have not yet had a problem with enigmail's releases and nightlies downloaded directly from the enigmail website. What you're proposing will create a whole new set of support problems, starting with the return of You must use the packaged version! on Linux, and similar platforms. Add to that the whole new set of support problems that you're going to create by dragging your happy GnuPG 1.x using userbase kicking and screaming into using 2.x It seems that eventually, we shall have to move to gnupg 2.1 which cannot co-exist with 2.0. If support for gnupg 1.x is abandoned in enigmail, what will we have to fall back on for email encryption and signing when the new installations of 2.1 fail to work out-of-the-box ? Philip signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 05.02.15 21:02, Doug Barton wrote: What you're proposing will create a whole new set of support problems, starting with the return of You must use the packaged version! on Linux, and similar platforms. No, this requirement will not start the You must use the packaged version case again. This will get into a either use the packaged version or install gpg2. So user convenience/benefit/etc. aside, is the Enigmail team ready to take on the support cost of what you propose? We have seen several requests for additional help for the team in recent months, have your numbers swelled so greatly that this is no longer an issue? The rush of support for a not working gpg-agent (especially on Linux) has declined really significantly, both here and on gpg-users. I think the distributions now do a very good job in implementing this right. Concerning user base: We've 51% windows and 7% Mac OS users, both of which have a very good working gpg2 packages with installers working out of the box (and will be installed by the setup wizard). The remaining 42% Linux users can be said apt-get gpg2 and it will work. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/enigmail/statistics/? last=365 I don't think the support for linux users to install gpg2 will overwhelm us. That said, the call for support is more for our forum at sourceforge (https://sourceforge.net/p/enigmail/forum/support/) than for the mailing list here which has a great support from willing and skilled people. Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU09qWAAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+fFUP/AiVaXC935CJ4cayNKpczXgy pwee/qSiYp4hxJvYVp6KOHrvzGwiwVxLYpoEaQ+HBuGj3DTlQEhkfLsPtpMMSlv2 8JyWe7kxo63GAMA5G2mkDNbUyVpZ2NXXLPI8BDTKnH4yP4F4rKOruXhC3cQfvV97 reOkcWnB+oCym5OVd00gOKv0LSSjNesjUmh6glcgqMLy44rgP+qKpgwXyPQBReqn 4TsmIaYREs33xkOtSdOJD6aFimpVpnpBEnGzvZAz630jd/9ZLDzumCpYxQrlIAxq tgLvthq5MoI3wn7egjTHkOmtxNCu+qk+TsKy6LNGo1nEunweCrYO7448qh5pyPp+ dQoM6xYUClKfp1p2m1QUj6oUeJOJ0QeYo38cuoC64v1fE/ua/5lov7qZo+ofi4H8 X4xMgKF4NvveKHDUB3ZaKCSWRsAbPjdfFq8glM1+CdAS71AKEEk619yfzZhmcwtq epkBee08HxLWYtGL7vlVarMpty31ZFQphZl+3++IDa3YzSVUl9dUlcp+EsNikNoM xM7hJaDI5V9+vDpGeYNMYIu32pSCpmyEPaS6IwJxbym6MiwR7+wQCY5IcQE8Ii7I Lwb9GXiZIWEr5MOr/STzD+WrvgQl/4QXulXlWq25NStToAmDIfBeFUt0Dtbj4MYi jQJjHC0hhrU2aM46GiaS =HN/E -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/5/15 1:03 PM, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote: On 05.02.15 21:02, Doug Barton wrote: What you're proposing will create a whole new set of support problems, starting with the return of You must use the packaged version! on Linux, and similar platforms. No, this requirement will not start the You must use the packaged version case again. This will get into a either use the packaged version or install gpg2. Sure, but those problems are roughly equivalent. IMO you(pl.) are dramatically underestimating the number of users who are still on 1.x, and would be quite shocked/dismayed at having to switch. We are used to it by now, but even with the socket version of gpg-agent it's a non-trivially different method of operation. So user convenience/benefit/etc. aside, is the Enigmail team ready to take on the support cost of what you propose? We have seen several requests for additional help for the team in recent months, have your numbers swelled so greatly that this is no longer an issue? The rush of support for a not working gpg-agent (especially on Linux) has declined really significantly, both here and on gpg-users. I think the distributions now do a very good job in implementing this right. Again, I think you're underestimating the transition difficulty. Concerning user base: We've 51% windows and 7% Mac OS users, both of which have a very good working gpg2 packages with installers working out of the box (and will be installed by the setup wizard). The remaining 42% Linux users can be said apt-get gpg2 and it will work. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/enigmail/statistics/? last=365 I don't think the support for linux users to install gpg2 will overwhelm us. So my disagreement with your analysis aside, isn't the better question the one I posed in my message (which you snipped)? There is no question that making this change will be an inconvenience to some users (whether the number is high as I believe, or low as you seem to believe), and will create _some_ support burden. Is the code to support 1.x in Enigmail really *that* difficult to work with/work around that it justifies taking on these burdens now, rather than some time down the road when more people have already transitioned? Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
From my perspective, until the majority of OS' that ship GnuPG are shipping 2.x by default, removing 1.x support is premature. This would be a problem if the OSes that ship Enigmail had no way to make GnuPG 2 a dependency. Virtually all of them do, so I don't see the problem. I get the party line that we encourage people to use the packaged version, which will fix the dependency problem, etc. etc. But we've benefited from a significant decrease in support problems ever since the machine-dependent code was removed from Enigmail, and You must use the packaged version! became untrue. It didn't become untrue. The point still remains that packagers are allowed to do basically anything they want to Thunderbird, and we only check the Enigmail available on our site against the Thunderbird released by Mozilla. Your distro does QA testing on the Enigmail it ships with its own Thunderbird. When you use our Enigmail release with your distro's Thunderbird release, there is *no* QA testing on that configuration. As a rule, I refuse to recommend packages without QA testing to everyday users. For that reason, I think the rule we have is a good one and I want to see it continue. And if we keep that rule, then this entire argument becomes moot. What you're proposing will create a whole new set of support problems, starting with the return of You must use the packaged version! on Linux, and similar platforms. It's not the return of. Our guidance on that has never changed. Regular users should use packages provided by their distros, and only use our package if they downloaded Thunderbird from Mozilla. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
will create _some_ support burden. Is the code to support 1.x in Enigmail really *that* difficult to work with/work around that it justifies taking on these burdens now, rather than some time down the road when more people have already transitioned? Ah, the broccoli argument. I hate broccoli, but it's on my plate, and Mom and Dad won't let me have ice cream until I finish all my food. So do I want to eat the broccoli now or later? My vote: eat the broccoli now and enjoy the rest of your meal, rather than try to enjoy your meal while dreading the broccoli. Also, users have had eight years to transition. What are we supposed to do, wait another seven years? Letting Enigmail users know today, in about a year you'll have to be using GnuPG 2.x with Enigmail, is hardly ripping the rug out from beneath people's feet. I'm not in any way worried about this transition. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/5/15 3:08 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: will create _some_ support burden. Is the code to support 1.x in Enigmail really *that* difficult to work with/work around that it justifies taking on these burdens now, rather than some time down the road when more people have already transitioned? Ah, the broccoli argument. I hate broccoli, but it's on my plate, and Mom and Dad won't let me have ice cream until I finish all my food. So do I want to eat the broccoli now or later? My vote: eat the broccoli now and enjoy the rest of your meal, rather than try to enjoy your meal while dreading the broccoli. Sorry, that's a poor analogy. In your example there is no cost associated with eating the broccoli, other than your mythical child having to choke down a food they don't like. You also ignore more attractive alternatives, like the perennial favorite, just put some ketchup on it. :) Also, users have had eight years to transition. What are we supposed to do, wait another seven years? Straw man, argumentum ad absurdum ... should I go on? I didn't suggest this, and agree that it's not practical. Letting Enigmail users know today, in about a year you'll have to be using GnuPG 2.x with Enigmail, is hardly ripping the rug out from beneath people's feet. I'm not suggesting that either. What I have said several times now is that there are still a large number of users on 1.x, and that making this change at this time will create a large inconvenience to them, and a large support burden for the Enigmail team. You're saying, I'm Ok with that, which is fine ... but Patrick specifically asked for feedback, so I'm providing some. If the Enigmail team is prepared to take on the support burden, and endure/ignore the backlash from angry users, that's their choice, and not my problem. :) Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
If the wizard takes users to 2.x then I cannot see an issue. With old equipment can the user remain on 1.x with an old version of enigma? Ian On 06/02/15 10:08, Robert J. Hansen wrote: will create _some_ support burden. Is the code to support 1.x in Enigmail really *that* difficult to work with/work around that it justifies taking on these burdens now, rather than some time down the road when more people have already transitioned? Ah, the broccoli argument. I hate broccoli, but it's on my plate, and Mom and Dad won't let me have ice cream until I finish all my food. So do I want to eat the broccoli now or later? My vote: eat the broccoli now and enjoy the rest of your meal, rather than try to enjoy your meal while dreading the broccoli. Also, users have had eight years to transition. What are we supposed to do, wait another seven years? Letting Enigmail users know today, in about a year you'll have to be using GnuPG 2.x with Enigmail, is hardly ripping the rug out from beneath people's feet. I'm not in any way worried about this transition. ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/5/15 3:03 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: From my perspective, until the majority of OS' that ship GnuPG are shipping 2.x by default, removing 1.x support is premature. This would be a problem if the OSes that ship Enigmail had no way to make GnuPG 2 a dependency. Virtually all of them do, so I don't see the problem. Yes, the fact that you don't see the problem is in fact, part of the problem. :) You seem to be equating A solution exists for this problem with This problem will cause no inconvenience to users, or support burden for the Enigmail team. That is a faulty equivalence. I get the party line that we encourage people to use the packaged version, which will fix the dependency problem, etc. etc. But we've benefited from a significant decrease in support problems ever since the machine-dependent code was removed from Enigmail, and You must use the packaged version! became untrue. It didn't become untrue. The point still remains that packagers are allowed to do basically anything they want to Thunderbird, and we only check the Enigmail available on our site against the Thunderbird released by Mozilla. Yeah, you've made that point a million times, and I'm not disagreeing with you. MY point, which you seem determined to ignore, is that users either don't know or don't care about that advice, especially first time users who are perusing the Mozilla addons page. All this in spite of your best intentions, since users are notorious for not following instructions, even when they know about them. So let me rephrase my argument ... The fact that the machine-dependent code has been (almost completely) removed from Enigmail means that when users are ignorant of and/or ignore the advice to get Enigmail from the same source they get their Thunderbird the negative consequences to the user are now very minimal, to the extent that messages to the list requesting support on this topic have dropped dramatically, and to levels approaching zero. By changing the structure of Enigmail to once again make loading it from your OS' package repo a practical necessity the number of support requests on this topic will rise again. Now you can disagree with me on how much they will rise, and you can state confidently that no matter how much they do rise the Enigmail team is prepared to handle it, but you cannot disagree with me that they will go up from present levels. So my question is, Is inconveniencing users and increasing support costs worth it? So far everyone that has answered has had some indirect variety of Yes; either because they think that I am overestimating these factors, or that the team can handle them, regardless of how large they turn out to be. Given that I've made my point several times now, I will step aside and let others offer their own perspective. Doug PS, I hope I'm wrong. ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/5/15 3:26 PM, Ian Mann wrote: With old equipment can the user remain on 1.x with an old version of enigma? No, that's the point of this exercise, to remove 1.x support altogether. :) ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Thanks Doug, Ian On 06/02/15 10:33, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/5/15 3:26 PM, Ian Mann wrote: With old equipment can the user remain on 1.x with an old version of enigma? No, that's the point of this exercise, to remove 1.x support altogether. :) ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Would it be worthwhile having enigmail pass straight to GnuPG 2.1 ? No. GnuPG 2.1 seems like it should be a minor revision (after all, it’s just a .1 increment), but quite a lot has changed: the addition of ECC, the new keybox format, changing how supporting programs work, and more. Like any substantial change, we don’t want to push this on to users prematurely. Let’s let the early adopters discover bugs in 2.1 and let 2.1 mature a bit. Once that happens we can have the discussion about whether Enigmail should require 2.1. Even then, though, I imagine it’ll be a few years before we require 2.1 or later. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 05/02/2015 6:55 am, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: On 04.02.15 20:16, Bob Henson wrote: On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait until there is a standalone official version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows. Excuse me but that's rubish. You can install gpg4win-vanilla, which delivery only GnuPG and pinentry, no other tools. That's what Enigmail downloads in the Wizard. P.S. I've got it to work OK now. I set the preferences to override gpg.exe with gpg2.exe and the top GPG was found in line duly changed to reflect that. I assumed that it would stay that way and unticked the override, and Enigmail reverted itself to use gpg.exe. I had assumed, incorrectly, it turned out, that once it was set it would stay set. All appears to be fine now. Regards, Bob signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04/02/2015 8:15 pm, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/4/15 11:16 AM, Bob Henson wrote: On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under Windows 64 bit. I am not sure where you are getting your information. I have used the Gpg4win-Light installer (which does not include Kleopatra) successfully on 64-bit Windows 7, and on XP before that, for many years. Doug I had the full version here, and tried to install from that. I've got the vanilla version now, and have installed it - although I can't get the system to use it yet. ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04/02/2015 19:20, Andreas Hirsch wrote: Bob Henson schrieb am 2015-02-04 um 20:16: On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait until there is a standalone official version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows. I agree! Kleopatra installed fine, but as you say, it's not very good on 64-bit. Instead I use a mixture of gpg command-line and kgpg for Windows. That pulls in a raft of libraries, but works better than Kleopatra. Anne ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 2/4/2015 12:13, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. So I have gone into my Enigmail preferences and I've set the override option to use gpg2.exe. I have 1.4.15 and 2.0.26 in the same sub-directory. I'm basically testing this here. - -- http://www.glib.com/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU1CnGAAoJEO7wDftAWiXlvlUP/jOdpx6cNnB3jSQ5Icyr7ERx SYsPETuonQ0vftWvPSHoQAg86Abv31tqSvOM6SdZyht9TSW2c+acpz3ulqb1vCHA mEEiCVWNx7KxNnyjVW3LlknYPzlRrGGAj8A/pxjjtRz6pu6Jn71WcsGv4jxiVEpD 2F40ebo3ZLntv99M0lY9mUxdVBNZIyB42sxkA3iBSR+r//hQV7yI+JPLVqPyRvCK rfZyoyAcJkIfBQA6hQm1ycZ480EO8MpGGyMuVHzs1yo+PUHBnVf04YemWC+RZAiK GJ5dDeBZSfiF/H68h9Tfckd/mvugpRCBoiYJ3li17K75nLLa1bXBy1ireyDPWB8O DQzstTTk9uqxUGwnFpNVYT/LOsgpv1jxr1ACxP/rxi21pG788hghS9QWYKnlV+iT jOvZ1c+lykJyzjZXv6qBKMLnZBu8InuifoiQDFt3J7iXb/sNnOCH72PV1WsePlu1 AD4cJHYFOQh+YH4jrUE0vGWLYOAaDTiqhDq/emjiVD5NADA8z9rxsMANWNIC/0gA en4aI9C2lFIFT+JaGfWl85ecN/ocCKTk6LRmfy07vE2T5ob1+io4jKAYFng6bmKk IlmpR8WxHf9NNAd4ncRooV4hNnZ/KlmQpL84qs5dpZrv3/DjnoVfhUgQJk0No1yG cKNH6aDuf4xornyYZeIJ =viYF -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/4/15 11:01 PM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: The question is not so much the effort - you won't get a figure from me. The main concern is code complexity, which makes things hard to read, understand, develop, improve or fix. Yes, I get that. :) But without some sort of quantification it's impossible to intelligently answer the question, Is the cost of keeping the 1.x code in worth it compared to the benefit of allowing Enigmail users to continue to use 1.x? From my perspective, until the majority of OS' that ship GnuPG are shipping 2.x by default, removing 1.x support is premature. I should add that I'm using that transition as a bellwether of sorts, as I *think* that seeing this transition will also indicate that the majority of end users have switched, and are comfortable with the ways that GnuPG 2 is different. I get the party line that we encourage people to use the packaged version, which will fix the dependency problem, etc. etc. But we've benefited from a significant decrease in support problems ever since the machine-dependent code was removed from Enigmail, and You must use the packaged version! became untrue. What you're proposing will create a whole new set of support problems, starting with the return of You must use the packaged version! on Linux, and similar platforms. Add to that the whole new set of support problems that you're going to create by dragging your happy GnuPG 1.x using userbase kicking and screaming into using 2.x. So user convenience/benefit/etc. aside, is the Enigmail team ready to take on the support cost of what you propose? We have seen several requests for additional help for the team in recent months, have your numbers swelled so greatly that this is no longer an issue? :) You asked for feedback, and my feedback is that while this may be a good idea in a few years, it's premature at this time. hope this helps, Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu. Ian On 05/02/15 04:13, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Reasons: * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long time to be stable. * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs. * We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG (e.g. password handling / bug 287). My plan is as follows: * Enigmail 1.8.x will still support GnuPG 1.4.x. However, if Enigmail detects GnuPG 1.4.x, a message will be displayed saying that GnuPG 1.4.x is considered deprecated and will no longer be supported in future major versions of Enigmail. * Enigmail 1.9.x will not support GnuPG 1.4.x anymore. We will either point users to a web page from where they can download GnuPG 2.x, or we will offer to install GnuPG 2.x directly from Enigmail (just like the wizard already does it). A decision for which way to go is not yet taken. I expect to release Enigmail 1.9 in late Q3 or Q4 2015. Please let me know if this would cause major issues that I'm not aware of. -Patrick ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04.02.2015 20:07, Alexander Buchner wrote: On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote: I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system: @@@:~$ gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16 ... Ubuntu 14.10 will expire soon anyway. The non-LTS release now have only a 9-month life cycle. Coming up, 15.04 will have GnuPG version 1.4.18, which is still 1.4.x The current LTS desktops, 12.04 and 14.04, use 1.4.11 and 1.4.16. They will be around until 2017 and 2019. A search of backports for 14.04 LTS shows nothing in regards to GnuPG. Regards, /Lars ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Hi Patrick, Patrick Brunschwig schrieb am 2015-02-04 um 18:13: Please let me know if this would cause major issues that I'm not aware of. In the past, I tried twice to switch to GnuPG 2.x (in case of setting up a new pc) and wasn't able to use my existing private key anymore. Andreas -- Andreas Hirsch Klarweinstr. 5a 82467 Garmisch-Partenkirchen ++49 8821 947477 GPG PublicKey https://mediencenter.t-online.de/auth/guest/shareToken/D96B3BA4667F2FE5101A2DEE73E8DC40E8CAE888 Fingerprint 81D6 6C24 3AA8 E250 E034 CAF5 A1E8 D5E8 806C 3CB8 ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/02/15 18:53, Robert J. Hansen wrote: Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade. It's not necessary. Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail; thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency. Or, you could just open a terminal window and type: sudo apt-get install gnupg2 Either way works fine. Thank you. I was surprised because the distribution I use, openSUSE, has shipped GnuPG version 2 for some time. :~ gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.26 libgcrypt 1.6.1 Bob - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlTSbJwACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU4xGQCeP/IxBEcVmUqC5wBOnZIgYmNR 27MAoJCU+5HPgs1xL9/uTEctiQasMiHr =lg2x -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04.02.15 19:58, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote: This surprises me. GnuPG 2.x understands and keeps the same formats of files and keys/keyrings. Correction: 2.0.x 2.1.x is another story... Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0mx4AAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+3z8QAJPn50gHrFKkWFtxOA1G4OAW 0ZivF6oAv498RnD9VdI8z8yCW6EqyZqNxyiS0iutc6x3q5OWWRTiLW+G5jecO/s5 92hhmJmtZ2frYWBUfb/JQIi3SIKSr5GJ5HNlQvmjPN7YR0hIeco3tL52iPauvFPJ oBDy5jVhPc1gf4rdSCjdZBqKk5T5730mbnyyVAIoeAq16/dFF56REmU7iFPm9Q4G Z+zUVgvNvF8CNCl6Ikd7jKe9Rj6lb6F7dZ0GFJv7M91PmY6C7R5JOlfTw753A9KL TR2YAxUT2U6S9t4wQi9SW3OnhW7u7Bl13zlHtr6QBgTpfrl3l4URvKQEn7/w1ARG KNF/MHYDtMNimDKvoytCKWT1tzLWGunai574HPcSEhoGH7/FDJfr0ytxaMIgUCc4 Laim3HXvg8HV7H9t2VP/w4W16w3GWWGUF8JWJY1+d60DMbWGFnGV2aNL1VzckFQN 6BLh/gNE9eU7pyGVk24wA3cPHuxWW/CLKWls4Dm6z377zQZQPM9wXIVfTZkn7PPV vm/Q86xCTJDFckbkR1V8h4aCM3ZqN2hI8kLVx5hxIokauKPqBUnwcuJbbvWWUd4u FNJoDyBA4vZciUQLnhDqLCtJXfVUMyzxE8LoiWiD8RrR+gIGYeRuHHWN2svp5z2V XVuQBeYQgrBstGllPpaW =xiGs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. There may be a few problems with Windows users only being able to get GnuPG 2.x as part of GPG4Win - that might put many people off using it. I'm not use how well it functions on 64 bit Windows systems - it certainly failed here when I tried it some time back - but maybe that was probably GPG4Win not GnuPG - it was very flaky. I can't remember what the problem was so I'll have a go at installing just GnuPG and see what happens - maybe all is OK now. Regards, Bob ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Bob Henson schrieb am 2015-02-04 um 20:16: On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait until there is a standalone official version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows. I agree! Andreas -- Andreas Hirsch Klarweinstr. 5a 82467 Garmisch-Partenkirchen ++49 8821 947477 GPG PublicKey https://mediencenter.t-online.de/auth/guest/shareToken/D96B3BA4667F2FE5101A2DEE73E8DC40E8CAE888 Fingerprint 81D6 6C24 3AA8 E250 E034 CAF5 A1E8 D5E8 806C 3CB8 ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade. It's not necessary. Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail; thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency. Or, you could just open a terminal window and type: sudo apt-get install gnupg2 Either way works fine. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04.02.15 19:53, Andreas Hirsch wrote: In the past, I tried twice to switch to GnuPG 2.x (in case of setting up a new pc) and wasn't able to use my existing private key anymore. This surprises me. GnuPG 2.x understands and keeps the same formats of files and keys/keyrings. It can even peacefully coexist with a 1.4.x installation. BTDT. Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0mvhAAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+1uYP/iKtnRsD6ry7swz/Lxqzau7r 6m+1eLtgzXRxblK97trtntvAzd/0wNU9fEnOjI0GklkkTAQFWZWdB7w3VdK48wyZ /Xl+N5pJwK5hNGBHJiDduveesExrbCqryPtpoNvKE1nq/Hma0Je+WSee4EhOptRU oGauOTDDLn7PzKXu+wsdaUqxa+NelxJbAN11Gi/bZbh/TpDcLHBH9Mjiy1NSnEIO mgi6y4lNE9n0EDZRVZkDiyoTWDdXn+lUYk/HRGPCQcY8XswLE/CQD8XNcEw9InEY yucdHMOcpDvhrcNRy5EGwJdfbvUjHPFq1/jXcQDGxRsQ1D0dpR1sLARTEuek7+Qz gMK9zZY8t0JGLK1KULaC/Kb3k+c6CsXaHjSGVI+R5EfczjYNmZa2Ha0D6riYoAGe qW451xB0helbRY3rN2AhqVw3MLiYmoTlneIZKDAMLSCkb2dCo72xKZfep+pkp9h4 GyrSHBMvTAZdGBPoTeq5DyiQB92nsr5PNZO7RzyNLLZh2JJAP7q4+IGeFz4lnIIz RZiWF8Y1oJUhjNBA+D89T9lt3ahbHbAIXS56NbTixFNpP6QCnJBC2/NVx+Nv5feM XqT7dl/dKsj5wDBPd5brzW32lflPcna0PDxi9aonHo4I6OBYDF1Vb6M5VL8CAPz0 o0WZ8u0zwH1IapCvVmAg =xXL1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04.02.15 20:08, Bob Henson wrote: On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. There may be a few problems with Windows users only being able to get GnuPG 2.x as part of GPG4Win - that might put many people off using it. I'm not use how well it functions on 64 bit Windows systems - it certainly failed here when I tried it some time back - but maybe that was probably GPG4Win not GnuPG - it was very flaky. I can't remember what the problem was so I'll have a go at installing just GnuPG and see what happens - maybe all is OK now. You'll need gpg4win, as it brings the required (and fully windows integrated) pinentry. gpg4win 2.23 works well on Win7 64 bit. Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0nAlAAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+I5IQAIQS+SU3RYKQsQcd7bXNwL/2 JfyqFpkIU0I6CLjcbJ9VWNeC5Klsr/O1K2/SDUMU5UjCMTe0UTXb6fqzKpmXiroA wF6Sw5hE/D8lu6V3WFPD/gClud0lI2gXxebQUxT2FqLleadhMK8oVF2X7n5yU+lh lH/SfqXM+whgr2GWjH5u6vdakYVzxQQHQhApTZjrKUCnm7RvaUZTI95ifIovZ5J5 0H1UrBohtnmIE7WulAXTXnX59anlLHAfNecezjgunl5+bI8madVE3aWKARuEvKMP Ou3kAXrm3/Em7gKGGv2GQQOq3T8qsHU3UWBsyXAkAMdwp74t95tGoUZnKT2lzST+ qvyxEmZJdlE+0Iw+uFfBvjar0gnJ+sGGwg0vuSZ8jSRN1JeFoKxaC2/MlBkTOdHA qA0Z1XOh57TLF+kCmaeCDeKP/8h6YG84AU45rshgseRHTdKLM19S3r1TkDlGktPs 6eM51Gx8e6UqVXec0wuB53ZeHQK5VfAQXhqoKmBciKihiAG/JPkOCjqhErelyACn 0mbC3yg+JSn5kZZOYLbBu5auOgY4eOH67Ckwca4Hk7hj7lYl5z/KcbokT5oY4IAf YO0X+1SeHlZKEcgb8d/rhSuP+D3L5PBapBmz3mIJvViCy9K7TvkTsmFInENIsHRK jpKzRr/O4LilGNeaZvPG =w7St -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait until there is a standalone official version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows. Regards, Bob ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Ludwig, That worked after putting in the Path, Thank you Ian On 05/02/15 07:01, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote: On 04.02.15 20:36, Ian Mann wrote: OK looks like I have GnuPG 2.0.22 on the system now. Do I have to tell enigmail to use that now? If so how do I manage that? It may be sufficient to restart Thunderbird, but I'm not sure. If not: You first have to know where gpg2 resides. This depends on the flavour of the linux system you have installed. Open a command shell window and type: which gpg2 copy the path which is reported into Enigmail - Preferences - Override with setting. Make sure the checkbox left to it is set. If everything works, you'll be prompted by pinentry for your passphrase, not by enigmail itself. The pinentry used depends on your Linux flavour. HTH Ludwig ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
bin_uRbgS43DJ.bin Description: PGP/MIME version identification encrypted.asc Description: OpenPGP encrypted message ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16 Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Home: ~/.gnupg Supported algorithms: Pubkey: RSA, RSA-E, RSA-S, ELG-E, DSA Cypher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH, CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256 Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224 Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2 On 05/02/15 05:00, Bob Williams wrote: On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote: I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu. Ian I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04.02.15 20:36, Ian Mann wrote: OK looks like I have GnuPG 2.0.22 on the system now. Do I have to tell enigmail to use that now? If so how do I manage that? It may be sufficient to restart Thunderbird, but I'm not sure. If not: You first have to know where gpg2 resides. This depends on the flavour of the linux system you have installed. Open a command shell window and type: which gpg2 copy the path which is reported into Enigmail - Preferences - Override with setting. Make sure the checkbox left to it is set. If everything works, you'll be prompted by pinentry for your passphrase, not by enigmail itself. The pinentry used depends on your Linux flavour. HTH Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0nq0AAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+OK4QAK8FvjwH7KSmKR6sf0wOociy b+vnmZ2LxtYNOIgUmUQ9cPX63K73GW2lt2GvR5xlLrGpiCRK5y34fbY6CsimxVBK ERoHXO8Z15/dxgjGQDY2hcDmAQ70yZbkgmW7juNW4RvtHOpJX4HKFulkgZLDOu1D BjHvCIia7v2lB9pdV77OyPk7y+aUTCQ6yQgWC2pteao+LcdSIxCCdKuOC7AxX2OE ze8gNXlUnNdaBz4Dg+wUoUOsztvmrdxD9IB9iUeoxW+h3pKarMb9sGFcKC032XOT sCF2+/46tmXS8rq3EwPLsLJTWBC++tHcucmiBLasdQ9/KC4xJHhSzmVFxU521RFP RncFZcWSECQy4Ig0DW5J5iW49+U9/6NAmnoPkl87jeZieVtqSLGU7POHq+Wl0PaG ASC8xA42vABZJ30pJbMtZuO3XXLP2zMtsl7tUgJ2cADEEQrPWi+5UbPwxVwd1BAM aMcjsGMiUt6ON2Q5bRt+bz8sX039/3AbkXlOzfSPZmXMCNRBXOJ+xaOW4clqCeA+ 2Q9AtRJAHHcW8Zn4NzXvt61v95Wb8c+BWk4pD1Z2wdkyCVQhsi7v+a0XoTbWsR6h oAMBpqZk/QqD12t6qcnf5SYt75f7hIcRcsSqHWcg7oNhYmGzc2bQqMqy5oaXvrJQ sHCEBXPT7hy4BFmKgRT5 =FnKj -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 El 04-02-2015 a las 15:07, Alexander Buchner escibió: On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote: I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system: @@@:~$ gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16 ... If I'm not wrong, gpg 1.4.16 had a security flaw so it's strange ubuntu has not upgraded to 1.4.17 or 1.4.18. But that flaw may have been too specific to be considered exploitable... it was something about denial of service. Best Regards -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJU0nx0AAoJEMV4f6PvczxAV+YH/2VtnBrh1vVAUv2Lg4jgFnSE AQIw30k/XxHnNcgqlFBthr86iMqwwc5r/cFK+/mo8jUQ9WWPqJO2o5EC42wlZ8lj zsdz8GGbPsfpDy3jSYxJi5t5LqzDJmjtgEtrOM3aM+sTH1unrTE9aHNHCO7NC4Jx Tozd7w98BwSdB7eltuENa6n4wcwPBNUq/deYcu1KsReZJmXQORo/vxebRa9AYB9U rRkW5kDHutYvVtje/ZCfErDjZlv+AlAQMd0jpIWr5KjddfsLEiGfhmM7ULe/fIN4 zemJrhy/XeIrVcxUsXtEnoIXvaOWzbF8O9zaJURd8OxjIy3uN6oJYaWrC42Pkho= =dVrd -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote: I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu. Ian I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlTSXkUACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU5GdQCdEjIgcl6ywcelBOuqbVZAoQAB MwwAnijTi06O9f0sMaaznMSZ3u0aFO1a =pg7t -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Yes, I don't know much about tinkering with the system. I just want to use the applications. For me to upgrade GnuPG to 2.x by myself would be stressful, I would be sure to stuff it up Bob. On 05/02/15 05:26, Bob Williams wrote: On 04/02/15 18:18, Ian Mann wrote: On 05/02/15 05:00, Bob Williams wrote: On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote: I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu. Ian I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16 Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade. Bob ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04.02.15 20:02, Andreas Hirsch wrote: If I remember correctly, there comes a new instance of handling the passthrase instead of Enigmail and so my passthrase was not recognized. Did your passphrase contain special characters like accent or umlauts? If yes, please change it with 1.4 and then you can use it with 2.0.x :-) Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0m2JAAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+v10QAMIZy+O1v1iUOYgupsmHteAn tk1SFZsw7+aLKsvKh/yzyClgl4Ivv/dU/y4JZizgfr/pwQwEe2KBvQ6MSB5Crpt5 EsjZpEauMX3tDsIAyEJK3N7fLEMnRdItbKqOHueoja1R35HVTTh/iEY41gkRrwZF JS+GtqkNevSnTMyWlj4enP+x+2AMFckwv6OKuIAhOCr/yXIGFnA0Oh+nF+0/eXlz 22j65S6TW3tcBsUZQ5AnRqVaQGUo6m6tLMfhO5oMGtfC+U5BDZRA89WFZ4N1zcSs EWS2tm2W/GxXDrDad1XtbYICo/l33UtTpKmpKxtMFYcm/ZajGQuPxPI/xrlE5jjp JPugrGMdMaZHVvIEqD83XdqksYheaYW21K9TYHINL96gmFA2CBlwsXrhf/rGMRuk DW7ToYNeRhhXJk5FMYe/NkDvJAqYkaisWFHAVxc0sV+bGUNkdtSaI5euavJnMD9O MjAMIilpUR2LAHGleYe4UH75W3GZM/xw95Q2wYg2erKWQrF9KC9Y949Ae2uocU2T lDGqyoPQaU7L0YHE1m6nZ8I6ktr9/cJCJV/hI3gMEnEWtg57dX7BFzfD8AMimjJL SytjRQJnFfCe5D4EI+peajjYJGozIL/P9L17Ska2wYI8qKVjSiW8LYND/4mv6olA ZP1Ec99bnMZDN9jD30Gv =U8nu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Do I have to uninstall 1.4? Nope. They coexist beautifully. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04/02/2015 7:27 pm, Samir Nassar wrote: On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 07:16:26 PM Bob Henson wrote: Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait until there is a standalone official version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows. Did you try the Vanilla installer? http://files.gpg4win.org/gpg4win-vanilla-2.2.3.exe This install gnupg only. Samir Hmm. I just gave it a try and it seems to be fine - however, I sent myself a test message and when I had a look at the details it said :- Version: GnuPG v1 All I did was changed Enigmail to use gpg2.exe instead of gpg.exe - maybe I need to do more than just that to get it to use v2 ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 05:09:24 PM Faramir wrote: If I'm not wrong, gpg 1.4.16 had a security flaw so it's strange ubuntu has not upgraded to 1.4.17 or 1.4.18. But that flaw may have been too specific to be considered exploitable... it was something about denial of service. Depending on the bug and how patchable it is, some distributions like Debian, and so Ubuntu, might apply patches to an existing version instead of pumping the version level. Samir signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 04/02/15 18:18, Ian Mann wrote: On 05/02/15 05:00, Bob Williams wrote: On 04/02/15 17:43, Ian Mann wrote: I hope it is directly from Enigmail as I don't feel confident to install GnuPG 2.x it separately on Ubuntu. Ian I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16 Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade. Bob - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlTSZFUACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU6LswCggS+L3VrkCAm6RAaMrOJzN1eY wsgAniTtndTk1kL4ZhM0xq+wx372WIjv =KPgC -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Thanks for that information Lars, Ian On 05/02/15 05:46, Lars Noodén wrote: On 04.02.2015 20:07, Alexander Buchner wrote: On 04.02.2015 19:00, Bob Williams wrote: I'd be surprised if Ubuntu gives you GnuPG 1.4. What is the output of gpg --version? I have a Ubuntu 14.10 system: @@@:~$ gpg --version gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.16 ... Ubuntu 14.10 will expire soon anyway. The non-LTS release now have only a 9-month life cycle. Coming up, 15.04 will have GnuPG version 1.4.18, which is still 1.4.x The current LTS desktops, 12.04 and 14.04, use 1.4.11 and 1.4.16. They will be around until 2017 and 2019. A search of backports for 14.04 LTS shows nothing in regards to GnuPG. Regards, /Lars ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04.02.15 20:00, Ian Mann wrote: Do I have to uninstall 1.4? No. 2.0.x can peacefully coexist with a 1.4.x installation. Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0mz9AAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+UhkP/R4QirRetOY8IpCtSkkB/Asq juqlfUOFlZI23IJk03znbHwHBm/Bp4vzaqugLJtO2IrebTQ25YmAGWrOWnMBuYTc TLHJGX0/NUelktsHEUeDUCoapXtCWHCaCGT+cnssrt7wbhRt/hVfQ4EgSgxtlVVo UMmKFzYwgGsCq3a6TvQQnNyDgK9WwrD2ajlJzjLm9yyZL/9pQ4BJpV4VHQ9VEgyI PULPImrevgLPN0issBOCxGU68PMSuvwlLoc4j2D/66ZwvT06z4TktNSRFMNOJc4L /tEhsx0C3007fWnFHkdigq3dxCnqs8D0SJRjb2dqLXv1BZ2FhGFP2nfaPKuD7IqC mUm20wWtldQoRfFipSsTCwtL2ccjiB45UWk9Xu+Yz4bP30+/pnWfQ3yM9HWyy6TQ 8DyG6jUDxKJ+MXLoLlmUuUjdTOvCdJ1PtLSYc88ljsLYEx3YbFDE0eo/3hdI4kg6 8BQsbBMFPBiiKCGKK5bRMQjhKXc1RveZ/gN4nSHpwjVsbV5L6J3WQC9aiBDVb8aR EKJAs+G+eF5DbIfrolF6K9ZmTeWIRu32bgVqUBB1VEXbVo5hHSEnv/I0jgF+UiSl xrtRHZmcn1k/71Bifc2DbZHN+pGpXzKSv9nHavR4R/HnaG+cS7h0Q2yXeNK0D7D8 hYrsQGA3pMXSA3gMeR1i =5brE -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
OK looks like I have GnuPG 2.0.22 on the system now. Do I have to tell enigmail to use that now? If so how do I manage that? Ian gpg2 --version gpg (GnuPG) 2.0.22 libgcrypt 1.5.3 Copyright (C) 2013 Free Software Foundation, Inc. License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it. There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. Home: ~/.gnupg Supported algorithms: Pubkey: RSA, ELG, DSA, ?, ? Cypher: IDEA, 3DES, CAST5, BLOWFISH, AES, AES192, AES256, TWOFISH, CAMELLIA128, CAMELLIA192, CAMELLIA256 Hash: MD5, SHA1, RIPEMD160, SHA256, SHA384, SHA512, SHA224 Compression: Uncompressed, ZIP, ZLIB, BZIP2 ian@ian-GA-970A-D3:~$ ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 04/02/2015 7:27 pm, Samir Nassar wrote: pre wrap On Wednesday, February 04, 2015 07:16:26 PM Bob Henson wrote: /preblockquote type=citepre wrap Hmm - just tried the GPG4Win installer - it won't allow the installation of GnuPG without Kleopatra too and Kleopatra is very, very flaky under Windows 64 bit. I think before you drop support of 1.4 you should wait until there is a standalone official version GnuPG 2.0 for Windows. /pre/blockquotepre wrap Did you try the Vanilla installer? http://files.gpg4win.org/gpg4win-vanilla-2.2.3.exe This install gnupg only. I didn't know about that - I'll give it a try. Regards, Bob ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On Wed 2015-02-04 12:13:18 -0500, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Reasons: * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long time to be stable. * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs. * We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG (e.g. password handling / bug 287). My plan is as follows: * Enigmail 1.8.x will still support GnuPG 1.4.x. However, if Enigmail detects GnuPG 1.4.x, a message will be displayed saying that GnuPG 1.4.x is considered deprecated and will no longer be supported in future major versions of Enigmail. * Enigmail 1.9.x will not support GnuPG 1.4.x anymore. We will either point users to a web page from where they can download GnuPG 2.x, or we will offer to install GnuPG 2.x directly from Enigmail (just like the wizard already does it). A decision for which way to go is not yet taken. I expect to release Enigmail 1.9 in late Q3 or Q4 2015. This sounds like a good plan to me. I'm glad to hear it. Regards, --dkg ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Not all Debian/Ubuntu users install Enigmail as a package, now that it no longer contains machine-dependent code. No, but it *is* what we recommend. If you get your Thunderbird from your distribution (or ports tree, for the BSDs), then please also get Enigmail from the same place. Downloading it from the web site is meant for people who have installed Thunderbird from the Mozilla web site, or for people who don't mind possibly running into problems with incompatibilities between their distro-provided Thunderbird and their website-provided Enigmail. We've had this guidance in place for at least eight years now. Maybe someday we'll change it, but we haven't yet. :) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/4/15 10:53 AM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade. It's not necessary. Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail; thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency. Not all Debian/Ubuntu users install Enigmail as a package, now that it no longer contains machine-dependent code. Or, you could just open a terminal window and type: sudo apt-get install gnupg2 That will work to get it installed, yes. And now that gnupg can use the socket method for gpg-agent on Unix it's a lot easier to set up than it used to be. Users who want to take advantage of the gpg-agent for ssh purposes still face a pretty steep learning curve, however. Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 El 04-02-2015 a las 16:16, Ludwig Hügelschäfer escibió: ... You'll need gpg4win, as it brings the required (and fully windows integrated) pinentry. gpg4win 2.23 works well on Win7 64 bit. I think it's safe to don't install Clawsmail and the outlook tool, the rest things may be a good idea to install them, just in case. Best Regards -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJU0oBAAAoJEMV4f6PvczxACy0IAJsJakxO/T2A2E2eu8ciMdRD aaU8E91RVa9h7vnRpfIHdW6ky7F56Xk99HWj5GlhaTtr2uMCAT8te3gxlWEb/Kx7 fdE3I0bdYryDsi+1GfDBtxOeFjOzn/cgqrzrrZZLaB04wW2jo8T/HjthTk40rJgg 6EiWlEwU1qJw85ef8JQjmqLBwQhBzE6HUdxvAdBlKARcGSlSTTCsC5n7Ivnvdpj1 xtDtT9cVkw341zV3g6HwDIDOFOCOeDE6MezZ3KqsX7WV/BHaWbY/kiUkOlpSzz1U 8FqdmkuZtL+ItYbfoGdTnDfEKBb2SV0+qH5Wc3cNX2johHUEkMO0kzKK74ShjT0= =tCT1 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 El 04-02-2015 a las 16:08, Bob Henson escibió: On 04/02/2015 5:13 pm, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. There may be a few problems with Windows users only being able to get GnuPG 2.x as part of GPG4Win - that might put many people off using it. I'm not use how well it functions on 64 bit Windows systems - it Now I'm using Win 7 64 bits, couldn't make gpg 1.4.18 work, so I moved to Gpg4Win 2.2.2 (now 2.2.3), and it works fine, except I'm still unsure about how to tell it to use pool.sks-keyservers.net, there is something with hkp and hkps... anyway, Gpg4win 2.2.3 seems to install very easy, and Enigmail detects and use it like a charm. Best Regards -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJU0n3eAAoJEMV4f6PvczxAf1wH/2D6NKKUQWcRsoy9r8rVS1Qc kjX57b901F9GXL5KRKtmTwqnyJK4cBYP7W1QJ75x6IkaiKlc5mfL/aBHWT/N+Uz9 B6aOUIIkX4qas3uK2IZT3Bt73hLrrFDnluJ6/0/YVP61E6/zltylJ9hkGO3i3F3A LZ9eUL5p1bDnnIWI73LrfXx8AW/obut3cl+DtStrsSL3cB/2V1kvzprUU8H+GesP QDQOM1SGZ/HlchNwGR1BrZMPlnNgSh2XBSqfnjUKAEwmkCuZPXoiEqR+q+jZOKLh oRdyHFqa38ghUiim7iezJAeXxpzzQIvD8SNBPUpuZj8MwTQVkzm2qc8OjTDrl6I= =twZu -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
Yes, I would not have been able to do it without the help of you folk. Ian On 05/02/15 07:18, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/4/15 10:53 AM, Robert J. Hansen wrote: Well, that does surprise me. I can understand why you'd prefer an Enigmail wizard to guide you through the upgrade. It's not necessary. Debian (and by extension Ubuntu) package Enigmail; thus, if you install a new version of Enigmail through the Debian (or Ubuntu) package installation mechanism, it will automagically install GnuPG 2 for you as a necessary dependency. Not all Debian/Ubuntu users install Enigmail as a package, now that it no longer contains machine-dependent code. Or, you could just open a terminal window and type: sudo apt-get install gnupg2 That will work to get it installed, yes. And now that gnupg can use the socket method for gpg-agent on Unix it's a lot easier to set up than it used to be. Users who want to take advantage of the gpg-agent for ssh purposes still face a pretty steep learning curve, however. Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04.02.15 21:21, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/4/15 9:13 AM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Reasons: * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long time to be stable. * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs. * We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG (e.g. password handling / bug 287). My knee-jerk reaction is that we're not yet at the point where 1.x usage has dropped sufficiently to warrant this change, There may have been some misunderstanding. The upcoming Enigmail 1.8 (some weeks away) does NOT remove support for gnupg 1.4. This will happen with 1.9. 1.9 will maybe released in time for Thunderbird 38, which is due by summer this year. This is all speculation. We still don't know if there will be code changes in Thunderbird 38 which make a new Enigmail release necessary. but before I cast a No vote (for whatever that's worth) I'm curious as to how much more complex development efforts are due to the 1.x code? Passphrase handling in Enigmail itself - necessary for gnupg 1.4 - is a provisional solution and has a hard to catch and ugly bug (https://sourceforge.net/p/enigmail/bugs/287/) HTH Ludwig -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJU0o1OAAoJEDrb+m0Aoeb+om8P/iFpgrU1awuVc+LA4hrHavBS pZxrwiTlcZ4F17FDonDZNtDZIm3iWDq1dUUNwZvMPw9X/GAqwBdRJXjBNTTk3j4Q /CbFVO9655P2FB2gQkkpJKxoarlFeCdofKydP9XCdE1n9dgWxSkku70IfguhwRfK GWsUOm2OY/NppxANBa6lwYp5yvZfErt1PIjTXQxFBkn0exn4RTxJ/20uoilTzpfy OeVe4j7NdTO8WE/r2RC1gLF5k56Mi80Z3KO1QhxGasUu7HNHf2wbnQbBYjF4sy1/ eP4laTPbFm3jr3NR42TArso+SsidCWxzK2HND7Lue9NZDHMVex2crzC8Seho2SPt gpdvHhKLBTtxcpyiIsv+v0YotHPNX704eE+FEPp1gOXJgqPReqgj4LyZ88dH0ZKD SLNAPMTynGi3KAXUKlCU/H160FM0PNNsUT2TZ2yu+RMS7aei768YObKl1HNcl3aT w3HHOtZ/5TsxlaRJR5l1DoYNuftJPFKj8OZRoDXM5fJcEBmmslDEPH/AZV89MWKo cdDo4TT7G36TlUffAtkRs2ONVTA7K7K1ZN5P0ntWGfd4HT+lqtiEYSBWKpU7Rx5T tWSuDgTYuCT4IpBnA+ATnOlEbwpXTS/gsTZkxHUepLeYm1PS0h+IuzpYNIurGcS/ nT9NrwvsUzJfARkwHUW6 =bWa9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On 2/4/15 1:21 PM, Ludwig Hügelschäfer wrote: On 04.02.15 21:21, Doug Barton wrote: On 2/4/15 9:13 AM, Patrick Brunschwig wrote: We recently discussed in (a part of) the Enigmail team that we should think about giving up support for GnuPG 1.4.x. Reasons: * GnuPG 2.0 was released in November 2006; it has proven for a long time to be stable. * While GnuPG 1.4 still makes sense on embedded devices and computers with limited resources, this does not hold anymore for today's PCs. * We still have quite a lot of GnuPG 1.4-specific code, and maintenance of Enigmail is more complex with more versions of GnuPG (e.g. password handling / bug 287). My knee-jerk reaction is that we're not yet at the point where 1.x usage has dropped sufficiently to warrant this change, There may have been some misunderstanding. Nope, I understood the timeline perfectly. :) There are still a lot of Linux distros that use 1.x by default, and that is not going to change any time in the next several years. but before I cast a No vote (for whatever that's worth) I'm curious as to how much more complex development efforts are due to the 1.x code? Passphrase handling in Enigmail itself - necessary for gnupg 1.4 - is a provisional solution and has a hard to catch and ugly bug (https://sourceforge.net/p/enigmail/bugs/287/) Doesn't actually answer my question. :) Put a different way, what percentage of Enigmail developer time is spent addressing issues that only affect GnuPG 1.x? And perhaps more importantly, what is the opportunity cost of leaving the code in? What good/new/exciting things will not be able to happen if the 1.x code is not removed? Doug ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
Re: [Enigmail] Medium Term Plan for Dropping GnuPG 1.4.x Support
On Wed 2015-02-04 17:28:48 -0500, Doug Barton wrote: Nope, I understood the timeline perfectly. :) There are still a lot of Linux distros that use 1.x by default, and that is not going to change any time in the next several years. fwiw, in debian, the GnuPG maintainer team has been discussing how to move to gpg2 as a default after the release of jessie. We are not actively pursuing it right now due to the freeze, though. This will take a while to propagate to debian stable, of course, and it's still not a forgone conclusion. There's work to be done to make sure that it comes out OK. However, the linux distributions are the least of your worries, since even the ones that ship gpg *also* ship gpg2. I'd be happy to make the enigmail package depend on gpg2 even if we never manage to make gpg2 the default version of gpg in debian. --dkg ___ enigmail-users mailing list enigmail-users@enigmail.net To unsubscribe or make changes to your subscription click here: https://admin.hostpoint.ch/mailman/listinfo/enigmail-users_enigmail.net
