[EVDL] 3people rescued from inside after EV power failure

2020-05-12 Thread evln via EV 


https://www.gazetteherald.co.uk/news/18443907.three-people-rescued-electric-car-helmsley-power-fails/
Three people rescued from electric car after power failure
May 12, 2020  THREE people had to be rescued from an electric car after a
power failure. Fire crews were called out in Helmsley just before noon
yesterday (Monday) after reports the trio were trapped inside the vehicle.
Crews gained access to the owner's premises to retrieve spare key to let the
occupants out ...


+
https://www.ttnews.com/articles/orange-ev-places-first-electric-terminal-truck-missouri
Orange EV Places First Electric Terminal Truck in Missouri
May 8, 2020 ... announced Terminal Consolidation Co. deployed an Orange EV
T-Series battery-electric terminal truck to move shipping containers at
TCC’s Kansas City, Mo., operation ... reduce costs ...




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Re: [EVDL] FW: EnergyObserver's First Transatlantic Passage a Complete Success ...

2020-05-12 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
Moreso, because the shuttle uses hydrogen as rocket fuel.  So if they have
it, why not use it for electricity too.
bob


On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 7:08 PM Peter VanDerWal via EV 
wrote:

> > The Space Shuttle had a Fuel Cell.
> >
>
> Which produces fresh water that the astronauts drink.  Having to carry a
> battery AND a water tank would have weighed more.
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Re: [EVDL] Musk throws another tantrum

2020-05-12 Thread Michael Ross via EV 
The occurrence of OSHA violations is very dependent on the state of the
occurrences. In North Carolina we have about 10 million people, 100
counties, and 11 inspectors. You are pretty certain never to see an
inspector here unless someone dies on the job.

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 11:10 AM Mark Abramowitz via EV 
wrote:

> Good piece.
>
> There is real danger in spouting off with statistics that don’t tell an
> accurate story.
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On May 11, 2020, at 10:52 AM, paul dove via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> >  I posted a link with the facts
> >
> >>On Monday, May 11, 2020, 10:19:10 AM CDT, Peri Hartman via EV <
> ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, I completely agree with Lee on the "free pass" statement. It's
> >> really a double standard to oppose, say, the oil industry and then give
> >> Tesla a free pass just because you happen to support some aspect of the
> >> company.
> >>
> >> Peri
> >>
> >> << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ?
> >> https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
> >>
> >> -- Original Message --
> >> From: "Lee Hart via EV" 
> >> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
> >> Cc: "Lee Hart" 
> >> Sent: 11-May-20 8:15:03 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Musk throws another tantrum
> >>
> >>> paul dove via EV wrote:
> >>> 54 violations in 5 years does not constitute not caring about
> >>> employees.
> >>
> >> No; by itself, that may or may not be unusual. But David Roden said
> >> Tesla had 3 times as many OSHA violations as Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Kia,
> >> and Mercedes all put together. *That* is worrisome.
> >>
> >> When you see the tip of an iceberg, it's reasonable to assume that the
> >> rest of it is there, too!
> >>
> >>> I have yet to figure out why you hate Tesla. They are made in the US.
> >>> They are the best and safest car on the market. They are electric.
> >>> Yet you bad mouth them every chance you get.
> >>
> >> First, leave out the Ad Hominem attacks. Stick to the facts, and skip
> the "insult the messenger" stuff.
> >>
> >> Second, there is no question that Tesla makes great cars. But that does
> not give them a "free pass" in their behavior. They still have to follow
> the rules.
> >>
> >> You cannot say, "So-and-so is a great football star; so it doesn't
> matter if he beats his wife".
> >>
> >> Lee Hart
> >> -- When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it
> >> define you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
> >> -- Theodor Seuss Geisel
> >> --
> >> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] FW: EnergyObserver's First Transatlantic Passage a Complete Success ...

2020-05-12 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV 
 

"While I fully agree that a fuel cell for a car is foolish, the one
limitation of batteries is energy density. In those applications where
energy density is the MOST critical factor, such a LONG distance ocean and
air travel, H2 makes sense as it has 7 times the energy density of
batteries. Yes, it is inefficient, but it does make long distance travel
carbon free, which batteries cannot do."

I don't as a sailor agree with this engineering solution. Lithium batteries are 
heavy enough to provide ballast. The solar panels more efficiently recharge 
that battery. It could in effect be a an infinite motive solution. The fuel 
cell will have to be refueled externally unless the solar system is big enough 
which may be self limiting due to the inefficiency of fuel cells. They also 
won't supply as much ballast. But the upside is the boat won't sink due to all 
the hydrogen tanks. Lawrence Rhodes.  
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 12 May 2020 at 20:58, paul dove via EV wrote:

>  I promise it's very accurate unless you do serious design changes.
> Tesla beats (Model S 350 Wh/m 5000lb car, Model 3 260Wh/m 4000Lb car)
> this but I don't know of any others. 

2020 Renault Zoe 1502kg (3305lb)

213 wh/mi WLTP @ battery
280 wh/mi WLTP @ charger
235 wh/mi typical driver @ battery

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] FW: EnergyObserver's First Transatlantic Passage a Complete Success ...

2020-05-12 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread Peter VanDerWal via EV 
The Chevy Bolt is EPA rated for 238 miles with a 60kwh battery, that works out 
to 252 wh/mile.

Note: the EPA rating assumes you will be using the heater/AC.  During the 
spring/fall I routinely get 230-235 wh/mile driving at 55-65 mph.  This is, of 
course, from the battery and not the outlet.

May 12, 2020 1:58 PM, "paul dove via EV"  wrote:

> I promise it's very accurate unless you do serious design changes.
> Tesla beats (Model S 350 Wh/m 5000lb car, Model 3 260Wh/m 4000Lb car) this 
> but I don't know of any
> others. Bolt EV says they get 290Wh/m with a 3500lb car.
> This rule of thumb works great for conversions. You might beat it if you 
> build from the ground up
> bur it won't be like a modern car.
> 
> On Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 3:43:00 PM CDT, Lee Hart via EV  
> wrote: 
> 
> paul dove via EV wrote:
> 
>> For range... take the weight of the vehicle and divide by 10.
>> 3200lb car 320 watt hours per mile.
> 
> That's a good rule of thumb for typical cars. It will be different for
> much smaller or much bigger vehicles, or vehicles that have efficiency
> enhancements, or power wasters (silly tires, dragging brakes, bad
> aerodynamics, etc.
> 
> Lee Hart
> 
> --
> When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it
> define you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
> -- Theodor Seuss Geisel
> --
> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread Cor van de Water via EV 
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Re: [EVDL] FW: EnergyObserver's First Transatlantic Passage a Complete Success ...

2020-05-12 Thread Peter VanDerWal via EV 
> The Space Shuttle had a Fuel Cell.
> 

Which produces fresh water that the astronauts drink.  Having to carry a 
battery AND a water tank would have weighed more.
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread John Lussmyer via EV 
On Tue May 12 13:43:26 PDT 2020 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>paul dove via EV wrote:
>> For range... take the weight of the vehicle and divide by 10.
>> 3200lb car 320 watt hours per mile.
>
>That's a good rule of thumb for typical cars. It will be different for
>much smaller or much bigger vehicles, or vehicles that have efficiency
>enhancements, or power wasters (silly tires, dragging brakes, bad
>aerodynamics, etc.

Interestingly, it's not far off for my F250 conversion.  Just slightly high.


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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread Peri Hartman via EV 
I think that's exactly what Lee meant. To be extreme, if you are 
designing an e-bike, you'll need a different ratio. Same for a semi 
tractor.


Peri

<< Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? 
https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>


-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "paul dove" 
Sent: 12-May-20 1:58:40 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.


 I promise it's very accurate unless you do serious design changes.
Tesla beats (Model S 350 Wh/m 5000lb car, Model 3 260Wh/m 4000Lb car) this but 
I don't know of any others. Bolt EV says they get 290Wh/m with a 3500lb car.
This rule of thumb works great for conversions. You might beat it if you build 
from the ground up bur it won't be like a modern car.

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 3:43:00 PM CDT, Lee Hart via EV 
 wrote:

 paul dove via EV wrote:

 For range... take the weight of the vehicle and divide by 10.
 3200lb car 320 watt hours per mile.


That's a good rule of thumb for typical cars. It will be different for
much smaller or much bigger vehicles, or vehicles that have efficiency
enhancements, or power wasters (silly tires, dragging brakes, bad
aerodynamics, etc.

Lee Hart

--
When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it
define you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
-- Theodor Seuss Geisel
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread paul dove via EV 
 I promise it's very accurate unless you do serious design changes.
Tesla beats (Model S 350 Wh/m 5000lb car, Model 3 260Wh/m 4000Lb car) this but 
I don't know of any others. Bolt EV says they get 290Wh/m with a 3500lb car.
This rule of thumb works great for conversions. You might beat it if you build 
from the ground up bur it won't be like a modern car.

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 3:43:00 PM CDT, Lee Hart via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 paul dove via EV wrote:
> For range... take the weight of the vehicle and divide by 10.
> 3200lb car 320 watt hours per mile.

That's a good rule of thumb for typical cars. It will be different for 
much smaller or much bigger vehicles, or vehicles that have efficiency 
enhancements, or power wasters (silly tires, dragging brakes, bad 
aerodynamics, etc.

Lee Hart

-- 
When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it
define you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
    -- Theodor Seuss Geisel
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] FW: EnergyObserver's First Transatlantic Passage a Complete Success ...

2020-05-12 Thread paul dove via EV 
 The Space Shuttle had a Fuel Cell.

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020, 1:50:37 PM CDT, Larry Gales via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 While I fully agree that a fuel cell for a car is foolish, the one
limitation of batteries is energy density.  In those applications where
energy density is the MOST critical factor, such a LONG distance ocean and
air travel, H2 makes sense as it has 7 times the energy density of
batteries.  Yes, it is inefficient, but it does make long distance travel
carbon free, which batteries cannot do.

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:09 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> And Toyota does it again.  Promotes hydrogen even when it makes no sense!
> Someone sent me this article.
>
>
> https://www.h2-view.com/story/energy-observer-unprecedented-levels-of-performance-on-first-transatlantic-passage/
>
>
>
> But this article caused me to do some digging, because I was very
> suspicious of their claims of hydrogen power.
>
>
>
> Making one’s own hydrogen from water is a very inefficient process.  And
> sure enough, when I looked it up, the ship can only make hydrogen when it
> is pierside because it needs MORE power than all of its solar panels just
> to make hydrogen (from the grid).
>
>
>
> And as everyone (except Toyota and Honda) know, hydrogen is a boondoggle
> because there is no source of hydrogen on earth other than electrolysis
> from water (which is grossly inefficient use of electricity) when the
> electricity can be better used to power the ship or car in the first
> place.  Right now most hydrogen comes from Natural gas which just throws
> more carbon into the air making it one of the dirty fossil fuels we are
> trying to get away from..
>
>
>
> Yes, hydrogen made sense 10 years ago when it was more cost effective than
> batteries.  But that was before electric cars drove the price of batteries
> down ten-to-one!  Now it is just a boondoggle for some companies to take
> advantage of (ten year old policy) and scam the government for dollars.
> It’s a dead end.
>
>
>
> In the future, when there is so much solar and wind to provide 100% of our
> needs, then there will of course be days of excess power and then it makes
> sense to use that excess power to make hydrogen in bulk.  And then not try
> to figure out how to distribute it to every car or boat tank, but to simply
> use the hydrogen in bulk to make electricity when the solar and winds are
> less.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the article.  I t is good background material.  I cant wait to
> retire and eventually get back to making my own solar boat.
>
>
>
> Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread Lee Hart via EV 

paul dove via EV wrote:

For range... take the weight of the vehicle and divide by 10.
3200lb car 320 watt hours per mile.


That's a good rule of thumb for typical cars. It will be different for 
much smaller or much bigger vehicles, or vehicles that have efficiency 
enhancements, or power wasters (silly tires, dragging brakes, bad 
aerodynamics, etc.


Lee Hart

--
When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it
define you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
-- Theodor Seuss Geisel
--
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread Verne Pavreal via EV 
We have 10 and 30 amp our lithium ion batteries on our recumbent tandems that 
gives us 30 or 60 km of range although we do run at a nominal 48 V cheers then

> On 12/05/2020, at 10:54 PM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> For range... take the weight of the vehicle and divide by 10. 
> 
> 3200lb car 320 watt hours per mile.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 11, 2020, at 10:33 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I have just taken the first step and purchased near a hundred cells. My 
>> experience is with lead batteries.  I want to do it right but I don't want 
>> to push my system.  It is a 40amp controller 48-72vdc. the motor is 3kw.  I 
>> live in San Francisco and want a little boost for my recumbent.  These cells 
>> will put out 60 amps according to the data sheet. 1 string may be enough but 
>> I don't yet know if the BMS I am looking at will support more than one 
>> string.  I don't know if the BMS and charger will talk to each other.  It 
>> would be nice to get a complete solution.  I also don't know if 2.5amp hour 
>> 72v system will have enough range.  I have so many questions.  Lawrence 
>> Rhodes...a good book might be in order...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Monday, May 11, 2020, 6:47:14 PM PDT, Marco Gaxiola  
>> wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> A few questions Lawrence;
>> 
>> Is the charger you'll use programmable to a desired cut off voltage?
>> 
>> If so, What is the Max operational voltage for your controller? Maybe you 
>> can make your array with as many cells in series as closest to max 
>> controller operational voltage when cells at max. be top of charge. Usually 
>> this would only happen right at the end of a full charge and would last only 
>> a few minutes. But the more cells in series; the more energy and less 
>> current in the system.
>> 
>> If your charger has a fixed top off voltage, you technically have to attach 
>> to that voltage and match the right # or cells in the series circuit.
>> 
>> I'm assuming you are using LiFePO4 chemistry because of the 3.3V you 
>> mentioned. That chemistry, typically has a max V of 3.65V (3.7V some cases 
>> although I wouldn't recommend it). Typical 72V controller can support up to 
>> 90V operational (100Vish Max, depending on internal caps). 
>> 
>> That would be 90/3.65 = 24 Cells in series, then as many strings in parallel 
>> >> 87.6V charger cutoff voltage. Hope this can help.
>> 
>> 
>> Marco Gaxiola
>> 
>>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
>>> wrote:
>>> I am having trouble deciding weather 20, 21, or 22 batteries are the right 
>>> series string for a 72vdc battery.  for a 3.7 volt battery 20 seems to be 
>>> right.  However I have A123 batteries and nominal is 3.3vdc.  Videos on 
>>> YouTube are inconclusive. Sellers details not complete.  Any advice 
>>> appreciated. I'd like to run 1 or two strings for a small ebike battery.  
>>> The controller only draws 40amps.  Lawrence Rhodes
>>> 
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Re: [EVDL] FW: EnergyObserver's First Transatlantic Passage a Complete Success ...

2020-05-12 Thread Larry Gales via EV 
While I fully agree that a fuel cell for a car is foolish, the one
limitation of batteries is energy density.  In those applications where
energy density is the MOST critical factor, such a LONG distance ocean and
air travel, H2 makes sense as it has 7 times the energy density of
batteries.  Yes, it is inefficient, but it does make long distance travel
carbon free, which batteries cannot do.

On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 9:09 AM Robert Bruninga via EV 
wrote:

> And Toyota does it again.  Promotes hydrogen even when it makes no sense!
> Someone sent me this article.
>
>
> https://www.h2-view.com/story/energy-observer-unprecedented-levels-of-performance-on-first-transatlantic-passage/
>
>
>
> But this article caused me to do some digging, because I was very
> suspicious of their claims of hydrogen power.
>
>
>
> Making one’s own hydrogen from water is a very inefficient process.  And
> sure enough, when I looked it up, the ship can only make hydrogen when it
> is pierside because it needs MORE power than all of its solar panels just
> to make hydrogen (from the grid).
>
>
>
> And as everyone (except Toyota and Honda) know, hydrogen is a boondoggle
> because there is no source of hydrogen on earth other than electrolysis
> from water (which is grossly inefficient use of electricity) when the
> electricity can be better used to power the ship or car in the first
> place.  Right now most hydrogen comes from Natural gas which just throws
> more carbon into the air making it one of the dirty fossil fuels we are
> trying to get away from..
>
>
>
> Yes, hydrogen made sense 10 years ago when it was more cost effective than
> batteries.  But that was before electric cars drove the price of batteries
> down ten-to-one!  Now it is just a boondoggle for some companies to take
> advantage of (ten year old policy) and scam the government for dollars.
> It’s a dead end.
>
>
>
> In the future, when there is so much solar and wind to provide 100% of our
> needs, then there will of course be days of excess power and then it makes
> sense to use that excess power to make hydrogen in bulk.  And then not try
> to figure out how to distribute it to every car or boat tank, but to simply
> use the hydrogen in bulk to make electricity when the solar and winds are
> less.
>
>
>
> Thanks for the article.  I t is good background material.  I cant wait to
> retire and eventually get back to making my own solar boat.
>
>
>
> Bob
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>

-- 
Larry Gales
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Re: [EVDL] Musk asks that only he be arrested> reopens CA-plant

2020-05-12 Thread Haudy Kazemi via EV 
There are more than a couple parallels to Howard Hughes.

And, yes, goodwill is being unnecessarily lost, partially to things done or
said by the CEO himself, and partially by things the company as a whole
does or does not do in actions and communication. Also, the CEO's Twitter
account is, or at least at one time per a document from 2013 was,
considered to be an official communication channel for Tesla.
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2019-12-10/elon-musk-tweets-tesla

These issues are becoming more acute as Tesla goes further into the mass
market and away from the niche of early adopters. Early adopters may be
more forgiving of quirkiness of company leadership and products in exchange
for access to early products. Lost goodwill gives additional opportunities
to other companies to take mindshare and market share.


On Tue, May 12, 2020, 02:14 EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> On 12 May 2020 at 0:06, evln via EV wrote:
>
> > If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me
>
> I'm not an attorney, but it seems to me that this is a civil matter.  I
> doubt that they'll arrest anyone, just maybe levy a fine.
>
> The tweet sounds dramatic, though. "I'm an outlaw. Come and get me."  :-\
>
> Just to be clear to those who've accused me of Tesla bashing, I don't have
> anything against Tesla.  It's that Elon Musk scares me.
>
> I used to be a Musk admirer, but the more I read about him, the more
> concerned I get.
>
> I'm not alone in that.  You can see from the trends in online comments
> that
> Tesla has a big reservoir of public goodwill, but they're burning through
> it
> fast.
>
> We in the EV community NEED Tesla, and I don't want to see them damaged by
> the very force that put them where they are.  But that's what I see
> happening.  For their sake and ours, I hope I'm wrong.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
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[EVDL] FW: EnergyObserver's First Transatlantic Passage a Complete Success ...

2020-05-12 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV 
And Toyota does it again.  Promotes hydrogen even when it makes no sense!
Someone sent me this article.

https://www.h2-view.com/story/energy-observer-unprecedented-levels-of-performance-on-first-transatlantic-passage/



But this article caused me to do some digging, because I was very
suspicious of their claims of hydrogen power.



Making one’s own hydrogen from water is a very inefficient process.  And
sure enough, when I looked it up, the ship can only make hydrogen when it
is pierside because it needs MORE power than all of its solar panels just
to make hydrogen (from the grid).



And as everyone (except Toyota and Honda) know, hydrogen is a boondoggle
because there is no source of hydrogen on earth other than electrolysis
from water (which is grossly inefficient use of electricity) when the
electricity can be better used to power the ship or car in the first
place.  Right now most hydrogen comes from Natural gas which just throws
more carbon into the air making it one of the dirty fossil fuels we are
trying to get away from..



Yes, hydrogen made sense 10 years ago when it was more cost effective than
batteries.  But that was before electric cars drove the price of batteries
down ten-to-one!  Now it is just a boondoggle for some companies to take
advantage of (ten year old policy) and scam the government for dollars.
It’s a dead end.



In the future, when there is so much solar and wind to provide 100% of our
needs, then there will of course be days of excess power and then it makes
sense to use that excess power to make hydrogen in bulk.  And then not try
to figure out how to distribute it to every car or boat tank, but to simply
use the hydrogen in bulk to make electricity when the solar and winds are
less.



Thanks for the article.  I t is good background material.  I cant wait to
retire and eventually get back to making my own solar boat.



Bob
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Re: [EVDL] Musk throws another tantrum

2020-05-12 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV 
Good piece. 

There is real danger in spouting off with statistics that don’t tell an 
accurate story. 

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On May 11, 2020, at 10:52 AM, paul dove via EV  wrote:
> 
>  I posted a link with the facts
> 
>>On Monday, May 11, 2020, 10:19:10 AM CDT, Peri Hartman via EV 
>>  wrote:  
>> 
>> Yes, I completely agree with Lee on the "free pass" statement. It's 
>> really a double standard to oppose, say, the oil industry and then give 
>> Tesla a free pass just because you happen to support some aspect of the 
>> company.
>> 
>> Peri
>> 
>> << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? 
>> https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Lee Hart via EV" 
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
>> Cc: "Lee Hart" 
>> Sent: 11-May-20 8:15:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Musk throws another tantrum
>> 
>>> paul dove via EV wrote:
>>> 54 violations in 5 years does not constitute not caring about
>>> employees.
>> 
>> No; by itself, that may or may not be unusual. But David Roden said
>> Tesla had 3 times as many OSHA violations as Nissan, Toyota, Ford, Kia,
>> and Mercedes all put together. *That* is worrisome.
>> 
>> When you see the tip of an iceberg, it's reasonable to assume that the
>> rest of it is there, too!
>> 
>>> I have yet to figure out why you hate Tesla. They are made in the US.
>>> They are the best and safest car on the market. They are electric.
>>> Yet you bad mouth them every chance you get.
>> 
>> First, leave out the Ad Hominem attacks. Stick to the facts, and skip the 
>> "insult the messenger" stuff.
>> 
>> Second, there is no question that Tesla makes great cars. But that does not 
>> give them a "free pass" in their behavior. They still have to follow the 
>> rules.
>> 
>> You cannot say, "So-and-so is a great football star; so it doesn't matter if 
>> he beats his wife".
>> 
>> Lee Hart
>> -- When something bad happens, you have three choices: You can let it
>> define you; let it destroy you; or you can let it strengthen you.
>> -- Theodor Seuss Geisel
>> --
>> Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, http://www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Battery pack sizing.

2020-05-12 Thread paul dove via EV 
For range... take the weight of the vehicle and divide by 10. 

3200lb car 320 watt hours per mile.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 11, 2020, at 10:33 PM, Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
> wrote:
> 
> I have just taken the first step and purchased near a hundred cells. My 
> experience is with lead batteries.  I want to do it right but I don't want to 
> push my system.  It is a 40amp controller 48-72vdc. the motor is 3kw.  I live 
> in San Francisco and want a little boost for my recumbent.  These cells will 
> put out 60 amps according to the data sheet. 1 string may be enough but I 
> don't yet know if the BMS I am looking at will support more than one string.  
> I don't know if the BMS and charger will talk to each other.  It would be 
> nice to get a complete solution.  I also don't know if 2.5amp hour 72v system 
> will have enough range.  I have so many questions.  Lawrence Rhodes...a good 
> book might be in order...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, May 11, 2020, 6:47:14 PM PDT, Marco Gaxiola  
> wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few questions Lawrence;
> 
> Is the charger you'll use programmable to a desired cut off voltage?
> 
> If so, What is the Max operational voltage for your controller? Maybe you can 
> make your array with as many cells in series as closest to max controller 
> operational voltage when cells at max. be top of charge. Usually this would 
> only happen right at the end of a full charge and would last only a few 
> minutes. But the more cells in series; the more energy and less current in 
> the system.
> 
> If your charger has a fixed top off voltage, you technically have to attach 
> to that voltage and match the right # or cells in the series circuit.
> 
> I'm assuming you are using LiFePO4 chemistry because of the 3.3V you 
> mentioned. That chemistry, typically has a max V of 3.65V (3.7V some cases 
> although I wouldn't recommend it). Typical 72V controller can support up to 
> 90V operational (100Vish Max, depending on internal caps). 
> 
> That would be 90/3.65 = 24 Cells in series, then as many strings in parallel 
> >> 87.6V charger cutoff voltage. Hope this can help.
> 
> 
> Marco Gaxiola
> 
>> On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM Lawrence Rhodes via EV  
>> wrote:
>> I am having trouble deciding weather 20, 21, or 22 batteries are the right 
>> series string for a 72vdc battery.  for a 3.7 volt battery 20 seems to be 
>> right.  However I have A123 batteries and nominal is 3.3vdc.  Videos on 
>> YouTube are inconclusive. Sellers details not complete.  Any advice 
>> appreciated. I'd like to run 1 or two strings for a small ebike battery.  
>> The controller only draws 40amps.  Lawrence Rhodes
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
>> 
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[EVDL] VW,GM,FMC,FCA automakers restarting production plants

2020-05-12 Thread evln via EV 


% All automakers are restarting. Tesla's problem is they are
located in a quixotic county that does not care that people 
NEED to pay their bills, and that other counties are moving 
forward. 
Anti-Musk'rs should not dis/bash him for NOT-being stoic, 
and him using the media to achieve his business goals (or it 
could be his newborn child has him lack-of-sleep cranky, etc.
https://www.google.com/search?q=musk+newborn
). %


https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/covid-19-lockdown-us-auto-industry-workers-coronavirus-12723608
US auto industry workers return to jobs ...
12 May 2020 

[image]  A newly-reopened Mini dealership is seen, as the global outbreak of
the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) continues, in Santa Monica, California,
U.S., May 11, 2020. REUTERS/Lucy Nicholson

DETROIT: Factory workers began returning to assembly lines in Michigan on
Monday (May 11), paving the way to reopen the US auto sector but stoking
fears of a second wave of coronavirus infections as strict lockdowns are
eased across the country.

With millions of Americans out of work and much of the economy at a virtual
standstill, a growing number of states are relaxing tough restrictions on
commerce and social life put in place to slow the outbreak.

Some auto suppliers in Michigan, a Midwest industrial powerhouse hard hit by
the pandemic and its economic fallout, reopened plants on Monday with
skeleton crews to get ready for a resumption of vehicle production next
week.

Skilled-trades workers and salaried employees also began returning to auto
assembly plants to prepare for the wider restart.

"We're starting up our foundry this week in anticipation of the orders
coming in next week," Joe Perkins, chief executive of Busche Performance
Group, an engineering, casting and machining firm, said in a telephone
interview.

Factory workers will be issued face masks, checked for fever and required to
submit health-screening questionnaires.

"All of that's ready to go," Perkins said. "The big question is are people
going to be buying cars and trucks." ...

The manufacturing reopening approved last week by Governor Gretchen Whitmer
was crucial not only to auto plants in Michigan but to vehicle production
elsewhere because so many key parts suppliers are based in and around the
automaking hub of Detroit.

Detroit's Big Three automakers – General Motors, Ford Motor and Fiat
Chrysler Automobiles NV - said last week they planned to restart production
at North American plants on May 18. The target date was set after tacit
approval from the powerful United Auto Workers union, which previously
opposed a May restart as "too soon and too risky".

[image]  People wait outside a newly-reopened tire store, as the global
outbreak of the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) continues, in Santa Monica,
California, U.S., May 11, 2020. REUTERS/Lucy Nicholson

Ford said it had adopted safety protocols from China, where car production
resumed in late February, including personal protective garments on assembly
lines, barriers separating employees clustered together and heavily
sanitized work areas.

Much is at stake. The auto sector accounts for 6 per cent of US economic
output and employs more than 835,000 Americans ...

California Governor Gavin Newsom had given the OK for manufacturing to
reopen statewide on Friday, but Alameda County's more stringent lockdown
orders barring factory operations for another week supersede Newsom's
authority.

Musk, who had threatened to move his plant to another state unless officials
relented, said on Twitter that production resumed on Monday, adding he would
join workers on the assembly line ...

Ohio, another industrial state and key player in the US auto industry,
reopened its manufacturing last week and said most retail shops could
welcome customers back on Tuesday.

Even New York, epicenter of the US crisis, was set to ease some rules,
permitting certain low-risk activities like landscaping, tennis courts and
drive-in theaters to reopen this weekend in rural areas.

"We took the worst situation in the nation and changed the trajectory,"
Governor Andrew Cuomo said.

Pressure to loosen business constraints has mounted under a rapidly
deteriorating economic outlook. The pandemic has put more Americans out of
work than at any time since the Great Depression of the 1930s, prompting
Congress to pass trillions of dollars in emergency relief ...
[© channelnewsasia.com]


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/autos/2020/05/11/gm-arlington-prepping-to-restart-truck-suv-production-may-18/
GM Arlington prepping to restart truck, SUV production
May 18
General Motors will soon implement nationwide coronavirus safety protocols
developed, in part, at its Arlington assembly plant as it aims to restart
vehicle ...
10 hours ago


https://andoverleader.com/2020/05/10/ford-to-restart-factories-in-the-us-even-chicago/
Ford to restart factories in the US even Chicago
Michigan Governor, Gretchen Whitmer announced that Ford Motor Co. will join

Re: [EVDL] Musk asks that only he be arrested> reopens CA-plant

2020-05-12 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV 
On 12 May 2020 at 0:06, evln via EV wrote:

> If anyone is arrested, I ask that it only be me 

I'm not an attorney, but it seems to me that this is a civil matter.  I 
doubt that they'll arrest anyone, just maybe levy a fine.  

The tweet sounds dramatic, though. "I'm an outlaw. Come and get me."  :-\

Just to be clear to those who've accused me of Tesla bashing, I don't have 
anything against Tesla.  It's that Elon Musk scares me.  

I used to be a Musk admirer, but the more I read about him, the more 
concerned I get.

I'm not alone in that.  You can see from the trends in online comments that 
Tesla has a big reservoir of public goodwill, but they're burning through it 
fast.  

We in the EV community NEED Tesla, and I don't want to see them damaged by 
the very force that put them where they are.  But that's what I see 
happening.  For their sake and ours, I hope I'm wrong.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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