date:20151023

Depressing to consider that, even in Germany with all its solar and wind power
and now the VW diesel mess...even *that* isn't enough to launch EVs into the
mainstream.

http://phys.org/news/2015-10-vw-dieselgate-spotlight-electric-cars.html

"The government's goal 'is quite simply not achievable,' said Stefan Bratzel,
director of the Center of Automotive Research in Bergisch Gladbach.

"There was 'a lot of euphoria, but no vision for a feasible economic model' for
the electric car in Germany, he complained."

Sorry, but that's just bullshit. The Nissan Leaf makes plain that low-cost
high-quality EVs are possible. Teslas prove that EVs are the future for
no-holds-barred luxury sedans. And PIHs like the Volt and Germany's own BMW i3
demonstrate that an "80/20" solution is practical for all the edge cases people
like to latch onto.

It's not rocket surgery.

Slap a 50% tax surcharge on all passenger diesel fuel in light of the scandal
and distribute the money equally to every registered owner of an EV in monthly
payments. Problem solved.

...of course, that would harm the quarterly profit projections of the people
who buy the politicians, so it ain't gonna happen...but we need to stop
pretending that the problems are technological and realize that they are 100%
political at this point.

The technology is solved. Yes, it's going to get better, and significantly so
-- but we're already at "good enough," by any reasonable measure.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: hybrid weight and EV pickup

2015-10-23 Thread jerry freedomev via EV

 Hi Cor and All,
   The Volt likely is about 250-300lbs engine,systems and alt.  
  For some reason the i3 is 365lbs for 50% of the power. I'd 
had expected MW would have done an engine right but they blew it at 2x's the 
weight or more than needed.  Lotus had done one at 115lbs and 35kw. 
    A smart way is a Metro 3cyl which at 56hp weighs in about 130lbs with 
systems plus alt replacing the flywheel or a Prius motor as alternator. 
   I owned an 80 Luv/Isuzu pickup that looked identical to the S-10 
next yr but only weighed 2400lbs and 1700 lbs stripped.  With some aero work, 
etc I'd bet it could do 250wthrs/mile for about 80 mile range with a Leaf pack. 
       With a RE above it could do most any pickup job. 
  Or one of the factory old E10's, ERangers and convert to lithium. 
    Another could be a stretched Leaf, Volt and do an El Camino 
version.  But big auto needs to do  EV pickup's soon as a big market. 
   Jerry Dycus From: Cor van de 
Water via EV 
 To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List  
 Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 3:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup TruckBefore 
Tesla

You only need to look at the vehicles that *do* have a
range extender such as the Volt and BMW and you have
an idea what amount of weight is added for that
particular function, especially if the range extender
is optional such as on the BMW so you can compare the
weight spec with and without...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626         Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP  +31 87 784 1130         private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
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prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 11:07 AM
To: tomw; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup TruckBefore 
Tesla

On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:18 AM, tomw via EV  wrote:

> Is it capable of the 50kW continuous
> estimated for the full size pickup?

For this sort of back-of-the-envelope guesstimating, you can use a 1:1 
conversion for kW and HP. Getting 50 HP out of a 1800 cc aircooled VW motor is 
no problem. Getting even more out of something smaller and lighter using modern 
engineering methods should be trivial -- especially if designed to run only at 
the speed that corresponds with peak power output. The VW engine fully dressed, 
including clutch and intake and exhaust and the like, weighs a couple hundred 
pounds.

Generators are just motors run in reverse. The HPEVS AC-15 makes 60 HP and 
weighs 50 pounds.

If the engineering team of a major auto manufacturer couldn't make a 50 kW 
system suitable for an hybrid with a gross weight less than that of the typical 
American passenger...that team should be fired.

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

In my book, instantaneous and peak are synonymous...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of John Lussmyer via EV
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 2:11 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List; Ben Goren
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before 
Tesla

On Fri Oct 23 13:29:35 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>On Oct 23, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Willie2 via EV  wrote:
>
>> I have four of these: http://is.gd/j4BtyS on order for about $1300 each.
>
>Updates on how those work out for you would be appreciated. Oh paper, they're 
>worth considering for my PHEV Mustang

The specs are the usual jumble from chinese manufacturers.

Rated Discharge Current (A) 
30A 
Instantaneous Maximum Discharge Current (A) 40A 
Maximum Peak Discharge Current (A)  120A

See anything odd about the above?

--

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

2015-10-23 Thread John Lussmyer via EV

On Fri Oct 23 13:29:35 PDT 2015 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>On Oct 23, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Willie2 via EV  wrote:
>
>> I have four of these: http://is.gd/j4BtyS on order for about $1300 each.
>
>Updates on how those work out for you would be appreciated. Oh paper, they're 
>worth considering for my PHEV Mustang

The specs are the usual jumble from chinese manufacturers.

Rated Discharge Current (A) 
30A 
Instantaneous Maximum Discharge Current (A) 40A 
Maximum Peak Discharge Current (A)  120A

See anything odd about the above?

--

Tigers prowl and Dragons soar in my dreams...
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

On Oct 23, 2015, at 12:49 PM, Willie2 via EV  wrote:

> I have four of these: http://is.gd/j4BtyS on order for about $1300 each.

Updates on how those work out for you would be appreciated. Oh paper, they're 
worth considering for my PHEV Mustang

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV Drivers Love 'Em, But Don't Buy 'Em, Why Leasing Rules Big

2015-10-23 Thread Mark Abramowitz via EV

On Oct 23, 2015, at 12:32 PM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 23, 2015, at 12:29 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> It's essentially down to the "smartphone mentality," the report says: buyers
>> aren't interested in keeping their cars long term, because they expect
>> something better to supersede them fairly soon.
> 
> I really, really hope this trend is short-lived. Trading gas-powered cars 
> that stay on the road for a couple decades for electric vehicles that stay on 
> the road for a couple years isn't going to do the planet any favors...

There's no reason why the cars won't remain on the road for many years. They'll 
just go to new owners. This is a good thing, as there will be EVs trickling 
down to all socioeconomic levels at a faster rate.
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

2015-10-23 Thread rick via EV

I have 144v of 100Ah cells. You're going to have 120Ah so should get a 
little more range. My truck uses short bursts of 300amps to get going 
and around 60 amps to maintain 40mph on level roads. I have a couple of 
steep hills near me, however, that I need 500amps to climb. I'd be very 
concerned about such tiny wires.


--Rick

On 10/23/2015 03:49 PM, Willie2 via EV wrote:

On 10/23/2015 02:14 PM, rick via EV wrote:

I have a converted Ranger. I seem to do about 500Wh/mile which gives
me a 40 mile range. Most of the time that's plenty but I regret that I
couldn't afford big enough batteries to give me 60 or 70 miles as I
build furniture and some of the better hardwood outlets are more than
20 miles away.

The next project in my ebike battery queue is a previously converted
Ranger.
I have four of these:
http://is.gd/j4BtyS
on order for about $1300 each.  The equivalent price for monolithic
LiFePo cells is $.97 /ah/cell.  But, that <$1 includes the BMS. Each
battery should give me  4.3kwh of energy and up to 60 amps of current. I
believe that 240amps will be sufficient but, if not, the modularity
allows me to just add more batteries.  And, the same for range.  I
really expect my energy consumption to be closer to 400 wh/m or about
ten miles per battery.  If so, and 40 miles is not sufficient, I can
just add more batteries.

The previous incarnation of this Ranger had 120v of 160ah LFP cells,
just under 20kwh.  It was not driven on public roads, but I believe it
had a range of about 50 miles.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

2015-10-23 Thread Willie2 via EV


On 10/23/2015 02:14 PM, rick via EV wrote:
I have a converted Ranger. I seem to do about 500Wh/mile which gives 
me a 40 mile range. Most of the time that's plenty but I regret that I 
couldn't afford big enough batteries to give me 60 or 70 miles as I 
build furniture and some of the better hardwood outlets are more than 
20 miles away.

The next project in my ebike battery queue is a previously converted Ranger.
I have four of these:
http://is.gd/j4BtyS
on order for about $1300 each.  The equivalent price for monolithic 
LiFePo cells is $.97 /ah/cell.  But, that <$1 includes the BMS. Each 
battery should give me  4.3kwh of energy and up to 60 amps of current.  
I believe that 240amps will be sufficient but, if not, the modularity 
allows me to just add more batteries.  And, the same for range.  I 
really expect my energy consumption to be closer to 400 wh/m or about 
ten miles per battery.  If so, and 40 miles is not sufficient, I can 
just add more batteries.


The previous incarnation of this Ranger had 120v of 160ah LFP cells, 
just under 20kwh.  It was not driven on public roads, but I believe it 
had a range of about 50 miles.


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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV Drivers Love 'Em, But Don't Buy 'Em, Why Leasing Rules Big

2015-10-23 Thread Peri Hartman via EV

It might - do good, that is.  The faster used EVs get cheaper, the 
faster we'll get ICEs off the road. So what if the early adopters keep 
their EV 2 years and get another EV.  As long as they don't revert to an 
ICE, who cares?


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "Ben Goren via EV" 
To: "brucedp5" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 23-Oct-15 12:32:39 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV Drivers Love 'Em, But Don't Buy 'Em, Why 
Leasing Rules Big


On Oct 23, 2015, at 12:29 AM, brucedp5 via EV  
wrote:


 It's essentially down to the "smartphone mentality," the report says: 
buyers
 aren't interested in keeping their cars long term, because they 
expect

 something better to supersede them fairly soon.


I really, really hope this trend is short-lived. Trading gas-powered 
cars that stay on the road for a couple decades for electric vehicles 
that stay on the road for a couple years isn't going to do the planet 
any favors.


I think a good way to put the brakes on this trend...would be a real 
promise for battery upgrades.


b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV Drivers Love 'Em, But Don't Buy 'Em, Why Leasing Rules Big

On Oct 23, 2015, at 12:29 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:

> It's essentially down to the "smartphone mentality," the report says: buyers
> aren't interested in keeping their cars long term, because they expect
> something better to supersede them fairly soon.

I really, really hope this trend is short-lived. Trading gas-powered cars that 
stay on the road for a couple decades for electric vehicles that stay on the 
road for a couple years isn't going to do the planet any favors.

I think a good way to put the brakes on this trend...would be a real promise 
for battery upgrades.

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup TruckBefore Tesla

You only need to look at the vehicles that *do* have a
range extender such as the Volt and BMW and you have
an idea what amount of weight is added for that
particular function, especially if the range extender
is optional such as on the BMW so you can compare the
weight spec with and without...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com

This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.

-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Ben Goren via EV
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 11:07 AM
To: tomw; Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup TruckBefore 
Tesla

On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:18 AM, tomw via EV  wrote:

> Is it capable of the 50kW continuous
> estimated for the full size pickup?

For this sort of back-of-the-envelope guesstimating, you can use a 1:1 
conversion for kW and HP. Getting 50 HP out of a 1800 cc aircooled VW motor is 
no problem. Getting even more out of something smaller and lighter using modern 
engineering methods should be trivial -- especially if designed to run only at 
the speed that corresponds with peak power output. The VW engine fully dressed, 
including clutch and intake and exhaust and the like, weighs a couple hundred 
pounds.

Generators are just motors run in reverse. The HPEVS AC-15 makes 60 HP and 
weighs 50 pounds.

If the engineering team of a major auto manufacturer couldn't make a 50 kW 
system suitable for an hybrid with a gross weight less than that of the typical 
American passenger...that team should be fired.

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

2015-10-23 Thread Ed Blackmond via EV

> On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:07 AM, Ben Goren via EV  wrote:
> 
> If the engineering team of a major auto manufacturer couldn't make a 50 kW 
> system suitable for an hybrid with a gross weight less than that of the 
> typical American passenger...that team should be fired.
> 
Unless they were not doing exactly what they were hired not to do.

The major auto manufacturers have all proven that they can make electric 
vehicles. They know the limitations of what they have produced, how to correct 
them, and how to manufacture EVs cost effectively. Now they are waiting for 
somebody to come along and spend the money to create a market. Once that 
happens, they will all make as many as people will buy.

Even Nissan knows how much they make selling EVs compared to ICEVs. EV revenue 
is insignificant in comparison. No manufacturer is going to spend money 
creating a market just to watch other manufacturers benefit from their 
investment.

Tesla created a market that didn't exist and isn't big enough for any major 
manufacturer to notice or care if they do notice. If Tesla  creates a market 
big enough to attract the attention of the major manufacturers, then the major 
manufacturers will jump in with both feet. One that is late to the game with 
their own effort will buy what is left of Tesla's auto business.  

I think Tesla will push its market to the point just below something that will 
interest major manufacturers.  Going further will doom them.

Ed
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

2015-10-23 Thread rick via EV

I have a converted Ranger. I seem to do about 500Wh/mile which gives me 
a 40 mile range. Most of the time that's plenty but I regret that I 
couldn't afford big enough batteries to give me 60 or 70 miles as I 
build furniture and some of the better hardwood outlets are more than 20 
miles away.


I used to drive an F-150 and I do miss the 6x8 foot bed (4 feet between 
the wheel wells). On the other hand the Ranger takes up a lot less space 
in the driveway and the 4x6 bed works for most things. I think the 
Aussies have the better idea, using what they call tray bodies. Flat 
beds on top of the wheels. A little high for some things but you get a 
flat surface.


All that said if someone came out with a small EV truck with reasonable 
mileage and price, I'd consider it.


--Rick

On 10/22/2015 02:52 PM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote:

It also occurs to me that most if not all of the smaller pickups have been
discontinued by major automakers, though I read recently that Ford is
thinking about re-introducing something around the size of the discontinued
Ranger.

A light, 150 mile or so small EV pickup with a proportionally large bed for
bulky items - on inspiriation of the highly versatile snub-nose pickups all
over Asia - might not do much for the Western US wide-open-spaces crowd, but
could be a successful niche vehicle for suburbanites. These are folks who
shop tag and rummage sales, and bring home a load from the big box home
center a couple times a year.  They apparently want lots of carrying
capacity "just in case I need it."  However, when it comes to open bed
vehicles, right now all they have to choose from in the US seem to be
awkward, relatively inefficient mid-size and large pickups.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

On Oct 23, 2015, at 9:18 AM, tomw via EV  wrote:

> Is it capable of the 50kW continuous
> estimated for the full size pickup?

For this sort of back-of-the-envelope guesstimating, you can use a 1:1 
conversion for kW and HP. Getting 50 HP out of a 1800 cc aircooled VW motor is 
no problem. Getting even more out of something smaller and lighter using modern 
engineering methods should be trivial -- especially if designed to run only at 
the speed that corresponds with peak power output. The VW engine fully dressed, 
including clutch and intake and exhaust and the like, weighs a couple hundred 
pounds.

Generators are just motors run in reverse. The HPEVS AC-15 makes 60 HP and 
weighs 50 pounds.

If the engineering team of a major auto manufacturer couldn't make a 50 kW 
system suitable for an hybrid with a gross weight less than that of the typical 
American passenger...that team should be fired.

Cheers,

b&
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Re: [EVDL] World Solar Challenge results for the Cruiser Class so far.

Those darn Dutch do it again!
In the Challenger class (which does look more like the
proverbial ping pong table on sheels) both top positions
are taken by the Dutch teams, at nr 2 the Twente University
and winner is again my alma mater, the Delft University of Technology!
(sponsored and carrying the name of the energy company NUON)

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes via EV
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 8:14 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org; ev-requ...@lists.evdl.org
Subject: [EVDL] World Solar Challenge results for the Cruiser Class so far.

Cruiser Class | World Solar Challenge 2015.  Looks like the top cars have 
finished.  The Dutch & the Japanese have the best cars.  Not sure I can 
evaluate the data.  These are "normal" vehicles and not rolling ping pong 
tables.  Lawrence Rhodes


http://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/team_info/2015_classes/cruiser_class
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

I have taken a Prius transaxle apart and I can tell you that
by myself I can lift the block of the engine and I have also
wrestled the transaxle minus the largest (MG2) motor on and
off a truck bed with just my two hands, so the combination
with some external components such as air intake and exhaust
will probably come to around 300 lbs.
IIRC the rating for the Classic (which I took apart) is
15kW for the MG2, but the newer Prii have higher ratings
for the transaxle mostly due to higher operating voltage,
(500 iso 300V) so you can get at least 25 to 30 kW from it, 
more if you cool it better (these motors are splash-cooled 
without external cooler, so there is a lot to gain there, 
especially for continuous duty)
Since there are thermal sensors in the motors, it is trivial
to monitor their health.

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626  Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130  private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com



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-Original Message-
From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of tomw via EV
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 9:19 AM
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before 
Tesla

Yes, the sheet steel shroud adds weight, but not near as much as the generator 
itself, which the car engine doesn't have.  I don't know the weight of the 
Prius powertrain.  Is it capable of the 50kW continuous estimated for the full 
size pickup?  PM would definitely increase the continuous power rating.  Its 
easier for a 10kW, they only weigh around 300 lb.

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

2015-10-23 Thread tomw via EV

Yes, the sheet steel shroud adds weight, but not near as much as the
generator itself, which the car engine doesn't have.  I don't know the
weight of the Prius powertrain.  Is it capable of the 50kW continuous
estimated for the full size pickup?  PM would definitely increase the
continuous power rating.  Its easier for a 10kW, they only weigh around 300
lb.

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Re: [EVDL] Free EV Solar commuting for life

2015-10-23 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV

>> "6 Panels can full charge a Prius Everyday| FOREVER"

> That's well done, and certainly provocative.  I like the way you promote
EVs publicly.
> how many panels like that will it take to charge a Leaf or other "real"
EV every day?
> Doesn't that depend on how far you drive anyway?

Yes exactly, but that is why the Prius was such a perfect match for this
display.  Its full charge useful range is 12 miles (on all electric) and
it does charge (like any EV) at 12 amps from 120v (1.5kW) and can fully
charge in 4 hours.  So I matched that up with 1500W of solar panels (6)
and that is the basis for the claim.

So, as a baseline, 6 panels lets say gives 12 miles a day which covers
about 52% of the national average of commuters.
Up that to 12 panels is about 25 miles a day which covers 85% of all
commuters in the USA.
Up that to 20 panels and you get 40 miles a day which covers 95% of all
americans daily travel?

Humh.  So I guess the figure to remember is 2 miles a day (for life) per
solar panel (now under $200 each)... that's in Maryland.  If you lived in
Arizona, that would be more like double that.

Bob, WB4aPR
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

Apples and oranges. This is a stationary generator in a steel permanent 
mounting container. Look at car engines that easily deliver 100kw of power 
while weighing 1/10 of that diesel generator. Heck, take a transaxle from a 
Prius as the motors are already PM and bolted to an engine and you have almost 
all parts of the setup. Just add a controller for injection and throttle 
opening motor drive while reading rpm and O2 sensors and you go. If you find a 
way to send the canbus commands to the inverter then you have electric start 
and regulation of output power for charging. Neat self-contained package. 
Cor

> On Oct 23, 2015, at 8:05 AM, tomw via EV  wrote:
> 
> You will need to add the weight of the generator to estimate energy/mile with
> it on board.  Here is a 48kW Generac at home depot, with weight of 2200 lb:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Generac-Protector-Series-48-000-Watt-Liquid-Cooled-Automatic-Standby-Diesel-Generator-RD04834ADAE/205506807?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D28I-Generators|&gclid=CIPSs7zu2MgCFdgJgQodnFcNcg&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> 
> 
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVLN-GM-Would-Be-Smart-To-Launch-An-e-Pickup-Truck-Before-Tesla-tp4678263p4678291.html
> Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at 
> Nabble.com.
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[EVDL] World Solar Challenge results for the Cruiser Class so far.

2015-10-23 Thread Lawrence Rhodes via EV

Cruiser Class | World Solar Challenge 2015.  Looks like the top cars have 
finished.  The Dutch & the Japanese have the best cars.  Not sure I can 
evaluate the data.  These are "normal" vehicles and not rolling ping pong 
tables.  Lawrence Rhodes


http://www.worldsolarchallenge.org/team_info/2015_classes/cruiser_class
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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: GM Would Be Smart To Launch An e-Pickup Truck Before Tesla

2015-10-23 Thread tomw via EV

You will need to add the weight of the generator to estimate energy/mile with
it on board.  Here is a 48kW Generac at home depot, with weight of 2200 lb:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Generac-Protector-Series-48-000-Watt-Liquid-Cooled-Automatic-Standby-Diesel-Generator-RD04834ADAE/205506807?cm_mmc=Shopping|THD|G|0|G-BASE-PLA-D28I-Generators|&gclid=CIPSs7zu2MgCFdgJgQodnFcNcg&gclsrc=aw.ds



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Re: [EVDL] Free EV Solar commuting for life

2015-10-23 Thread EVDL Administrator via EV

On 23 Oct 2015 at 9:21, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote:

> "6 Panels can full charge a Prius Everyday¦ FOREVER"

That's well done, and certainly provocative.  I like the way you promote EVs 
publicly.  

Still, how many Prius owners plug in?  The vast majority of Prii on the road 
don't have plugs at all and run 100% on gasoline.  So I'm afraid that most 
Prius owners will look at that and think "Huh?  What's that all about?  I 
don't need to charge my car."

And even if one happens to be among the few with a factory plug-in Prius, 
his or her PIP can only go 6 miles (EPA rating) in EV mode.  

Maybe more to the point - how many panels like that will it take to charge a 
Leaf or other "real" EV every day?  Doesn't that depend on how far you drive 
anyway?

It's a good idea and, as I say, provocative, but I wonder whether the Prius 
is the right example to use.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

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Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Energica Electric Superbikes> The Tesla Of eMotorcycles since 2014

2015-10-23 Thread Chris Tromley via EV

Hmmm.  I don't think this kind of comparison plays as well in the sport
bike world as it does with hypercars.  There are several literbikes
available in the $16k - $20k range that will turn 3 sec 0 - 60 times, 1/4
miles in the 9s (yes, 9s!) and top speeds approaching 180 mph.  Energica
isn't there yet.

I also think it's a mistake to make high end EMs only as sport bikes.  Many
of the people who can afford the cost of entry can't tolerate the racer
crouch riding position any more.  Make EMs as sport bikes, but also build a
"gentleman's express" version with more humane ergos.  Small additional
investment, big payback in sales.

Chris
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[EVDL] Free EV Solar commuting for life

2015-10-23 Thread Robert Bruninga via EV

I just took a picture of the solar panel I put in the hallway with these
words on it:



“6 Panels can full charge a Prius Everyday… FOREVER”



That is an outside-the-box attention getter.  It can really wake people up
to the clean transportation paradigm better than just another EV parked
somewhere in the parking lot.



See photo at top of: http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html



Bob, WB4APR
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[EVDL] BBC2 explains the popularity of electric cars in Norway



http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/oct/20/tuesdays-best-tv-building-cars-live-river-24-hours-in-ae-how-gay-is-pakistan
Tuesday’s best TV: Building Cars Live ...
20 October 2015  Jack Seale ...

[images  
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/e75dfc89bb760be1242b6a34190cabe31a15ec61/0_172_4284_2570/master/4284.jpg?w=1065&q=85&auto=format&sharp=10&s=04bb0a90db8438c168c3ae2fc208e3ed
Building Cars Live: Ant Anstead, Kate Humble and James May at BMW’s Mini
plant in Oxford. Photograph: Andrew Hayes Watkins/BBC/PA
]

Building Cars Live
7.30pm, BBC2
Ninety minutes of heart-pounding action from the Mini plant in Oxford, which
knocks out more than 10% of the 1.5m cars made each year in Britain. James
May meets the people and robots responsible, while Ant Anstead tracks the
history of the Mini and Kate Humble explains, er, the popularity of electric
cars in Norway. Back in Oxford, one Mini will be followed on its journey to
completion: they go from scratch to roadworthiness in 24 hours, ...
[© theguardian.com]



http://associationsnow.com/2015/10/electric-vehicle-norway-success/
Who Saved the Electric Car? Norway, That's Who
By Ernie Smith / Oct 20, 2015 Christine Bu, the head of the Norwegian
Electric Vehicle Association, at a celebration in April honoring the
50,000th electric ...
http://associationnow.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/1020_electric-800x480.jpg



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/oslo-to-ban-private-cars-from-city-center-by-2019_562544abe4b08589ef4860db
Norway's Capital To Ban Private [ice] Cars From City Center By 2019
Kate Abbey-Lambertz  10/20/2015  Norway's capital will ban cars from the
city center within four years, part of a plan ... restricted to electric
vehicles and public transit, parking spots that hinder bike ...\
...
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1881411-oslo-to-make-city-center-car-free-in-4-years/
Oslo to Make City Center Car-Free in 4 Years
Jonathan Zhou | October 20, 2015  Norway has been a leader in
automobile-related environmental efforts. In May, the government had to cut
back on its generous benefits for owners of electric ...



http://www.deccanherald.com/content/507556/in-norway-electric-car-sales.html
In Norway, electric car sales gain with a push
David Jolly  Oct 21, 2015  Berit Nordgarden and her husband, Eivind
Tellefsen, loved their nonpolluting Nissan Leaf electric car. But they found
its 85-mile battery life too short for weekend trips to their cottage with
their two young children ...




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/


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[EVDL] EVLN: How Tesla EVs' Autopilot Work, L2auton-coast2coast +donuts (v)



'StanfordU's DeLorean rips autonomous donuts'

http://gazettereview.com/2015/10/how-tesla-motors-inc-nasdaqtsla-autopilot-works/
How Tesla Motors Inc Autopilot Works
Oct 20, 2015  Sean Farlow

[images  
http://gazettereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Model-X2.jpg
(dash)  Model X
]

The new update is a nice addition to its electric cars but not the final
version, and owners need to know that it was not added so they could sit
back and let the ...

Tesla Motors Inc recently rolled out its autopilot technology to owners of
the Model X and S. The feature pretty much makes the vehicle drive itself.
The new update is a nice addition to its electric cars but not the final
version, and owners need to know that it was not added so they could sit
back and let the vehicle do everything for them. Tesla’s Autopilot works in
certain conditions and is far from being the final version.

The company recently updated the software on thousands of its vehicles (2014
models and up) through a system called Tesla Autopilot. The technology,
which Teslawas released five days ago, allows the Model X and S to control
speed, steering, lane changing and braking.

Before the update was released, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said it would be a great
experience for those trying it out for the first time and that the company
had been testing it for a year.

How Does It Work?
The system takes in information from its twelve ultrasonic sensors that are
monitoring traffic near the vehicle. On top of that, a camera in the front
windshield and a long distance radar located in front of the car look at the
road ahead.

The information received connects to the GPS, which allows the autopilot
system to control the vehicle and decide if it can change lanes or speed up.

Be Careful
The electric car maker made it clear before the update was released that the
technology is still technically in a beta testing phase. At times, the
autopilot requires the driver to hold the steering wheel, as a way to keep
them alert. There are also notifications on the vehicle’s panel and a few
sounds to let its drivers know that the system is active or that it needs
them to drive. In the announcement, Musk repeated that users needed to be
cautious when having the feature on.

But that didn’t stop people from trying it out as if it was the final
version. In a video posted on YouTube, the car appears to dive into incoming
traffic but is assisted by the driver, who stops recording and quickly takes
control of the steering wheel.

This is what Tesla was talking about during its announcement. The feature is
still a work in progress and Tesla owners need to be careful when trying it
out. The company will have its cars driving without the need of assistance
in the future, but for now, use it when conditions are clear.

Tesla’s new autopilot technology currently has four functions: autosteer,
autopark, auto lane change and side collision warning. The technology is
nothing new as many more companies are trying it out on their vehicles or
looking to add it soon. Tesla is one of the very first to have it available
to most of its owners.
[© gazettereview.com]



http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-s-autopilots-itself-coast-to-coast-sets-two-records/
Tesla Model S Autopilots Itself Coast-To-Coast – Sets Two Records
[20151021]  Eric Loveday

[images
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-autopilot.jpg
Tesla Model S Goes Cross Country On Autopilot – Image Credit: Alex Roy

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-autopilot-2.jpg

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/route.jpg
A Portion Of The Route – Image Credit: Alex Roy


instagram
https://instagram.com/p/9B_kXKF0il/embed/captioned/?v=5
"Should we stop for massages since we're so far ahead of schedule?"
#TakeAGuessAsToMyAnswer
A video posted by Alex Roy (@alexroy144) on Oct 19, 2015 at 12:36pm PDT
]

Rally driver Alex Roy is famous for driving a highly-modified BMW M5 across
the US in a record time of 31 hours and 4 minutes in 2006. He chronicled the
years of preparation that led up to the successful attempt at the
“Cannonball Run” in his book, “The Driver: My Dangerous Pursuit of Speed and
Truth in the Outlaw Racing World.”

Roy just made the “Cannonball Run” across the country again to set two new
transcontinental records. This time, in a Tesla Model S P85D. But instead of
Roy driving the car, the car, equipped with Tesla’s Autopilot, drove him.
Well, the car drove itself with the help of Roy and two others, Carl Reese
and Deena Mastracci, who are also transcontinental driving record holders.

The trio departed the Portofino Inn in Redondo Beach, California two and a
half days ago and arrived at the Red Ball Garage on East 31st Street in New
York City around 10:30 this morning and recorded a time of 57 hours and 48
minutes. They claim to have set the fastest time to cross the country in an
autonomous driving car and broke the existing record for fastest crossing in
an electric vehicle.

Editor’

[EVDL] EVLN: Tesla is inventing a whole new platform for the Model 3



'It is a misconception that Tesla was founded to make expensive, luxury, or
high performance EVs – Our mission is make cars that everyone can afford,
and to change the electric mobility equation, so that essentially every
vehicle can have the opportunity to be electric'

'2017 Tesla Model 3 Pricing Revealed in the UK?'

% IMO this sounds like: The Tesla-3 will be a more affordable EV that is not
as expensive, luxurous, or high performance as the Tesla-S or X %

http://insideevs.com/teslas-jb-straubel-people-tesla-now-working-model-3/
Tesla’s JB Straubel: Most People At Tesla Now Working On Model 3 – Video
[20151017]  by Jay Cole

[images  
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-cto-jb-straubel-at-university-of-nevada.jpg
Tesla CTO JB Straubel Gives Some Insight To Tesla’s Mission And Happenings
Surrounding Upcoming Model 3

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-product-roadmap.jpg
Tesla Product Roadmap (via Tesla Motors)

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/tesla-projected-battery-needs-in-2020-based-on-500k-Model-3.jpg
Tesla Illustrated Battery Volume Needed In 2020 For Model 3 If Everything
Goes As Planned (via Tesla Motors)


tweet
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/musk-model-3-orders-tweet-2.jpg
Tesla CEO Elon Musk Tweets Pricing And Reveal Timeline This Past September
(via @elonmusk)


video
https://youtu.be/k10BOn-ixEU
Tesla Motors - JB Straubel - University of Nevada, Reno - 10/11/15
University of Nevada, Reno Oct 14, 2015
College of Engineering's Distinguished Lecture Series
JB Straubel, co-founder and chief technical officer of Tesla Motors, shares
an energizing overview of how advanced battery technologies and electric
cars can pave the way toward energy independence and economic development,
and how education and innovation plays a key role in reaching those goals.
Filmed by Mathewson-IGT Knowledge Center - @One Digital Media Technology
]

With the Tesla Model X just out the door, all hands are now on deck for
Tesla working on the ‘next big thing’ – the Tesla Model 3, according to the
company’s Chief Technology Officer JB Straubel, while making a very detailed
presentation on Tesla at the University of Nevada, Reno ...

“So this vehicle (the Model 3) is what we are developing today. Most of
the people inside of Tesla are no longer working on the S and the X, but
they are hard at working designing and inventing all the technologies to go
into the Model 3.”

The Model 3 is billed as the first affordable vehicle for Tesla, and a big
piece of the company’s mission to bring a compelling mass market electric
car to market quickly.   Mr. Straubel re-iterated his company’s position on
building cars like the Model 3 during the talk:

“Tesla was not founded to make expensive cars, or to make luxury or high
performance cars – this is a misconception that comes up all the time.  And
it is perhaps understandable based on the cars we built today – but it is
not our mission.   Our mission is make cars that everyone can afford, and to
change the electric mobility equation, so that essentially every vehicle can
have the opportunity to be electric.

The CTO also stresses during the presentation that the Model 3 is unlike the
Model X which shares a lot of its design with the Model S.

“…it (Model 3) is a completely new platform. Different technology base,
and aimed at building hundreds of thousands per year instead of tens of
thousands per year.”

During a question period after the seminar, Mr. Straubel is asked to expand
further on the Model 3, and details the challenges a little further.

Question: The next generation Model 3 will be a bit of a new frontier for
Tesla, given its expected market and price. How much of the car in terms of
shared or new parts are expected to be new or different from the existing
Model S and X?

“For better or worse, most of Model 3 has to be new.  (On) X we were
able to build on a lot of common components with S, but with Model 3 we
can’t do that.   So we are inventing a whole new platform for Model 3.  It’s
a new battery architecture, it’s a new motor technology.  Brand new vehicle
structure…so it is a lot of work.”

Straubel goes on say that Tesla’s Fremont factory itself is more than
capable of building the volume of Model 3 cars planned by the company in
2020 (500,000 cars), as the ‘how-to’ behind volume automotive production is
no mystery, but the problem is in sourcing the batteries to feed the
assembly line for those cars.

A handy chart ... shown by company aptly shows that Tesla will need more
battery production in 2020 than was produced in all the world in 2013. 
Hence the need for the Gigafactory.

On the Model 3 Rollout:
Tesla CEO Elon Musk has previously said/tweeted the ~$35,000, 200+ mile EV
will be revealed in March ,and the company will begin taking deposits at the
time.  Production is anticipated to get underway before the end of 2017.
—
Video ... Check out the whole talk by JB Straubel.  Th

[EVDL] EVLN: Detuned Twizy rebadged as Nissan nEV> Scoot Quad launched (v)

http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/17/scoot-quad-car-rentals/
Scoot launches electric car rentals and plans second city expansion
2015/10/17 | Roberto Baldwin

[images
http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/17/scoot-quad-car-rentals/
driver's side view door open

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/scoot-quad/#!slide=3667526
front view

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/scoot-quad/#!slide=3667518
speedometer

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/scoot-quad/#!slide=3667519
dash

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/scoot-quad/#!slide=3667520
dash

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/scoot-quad/#!slide=3667521
rear view

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/scoot-quad/#!slide=3667521

http://www.engadget.com/gallery/scoot-quad/
gallery Scoot Quad (aka Twizy)

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/ba59bff41dd53b74c25d7e5ea2001454/202818922/1017_scoot_door.gif
Scoot Quad doors opening animated gif

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/1200x800+0+0/resize/630x420!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/c74932760099ecbd906889b007e7fc21/202819756/1017_scoot_sitting.jpg
Scoot

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/crop/1200x675+0+0/resize/630x354!/format/jpg/quality/85/http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/93746a626a465ad9f3a14ea4ddff91ff/202818951/1017_scoot-3.jpg
dash
]

Scoot is moving beyond its namesake. Today the company announced the
availability of the Scoot Quad, a four-wheeled electric car from Nissan
called the New Mobility Concept (worst name ever) based on the Renault
Twizy. The company's fleet of scooters will be joined by 10 Quads as the
company evolves into a light-electric vehicle sharing company that will soon
be expanding into an unnamed second city. Mike Waltman, vice president of
fleet said, "We are narrowing it down now and we expect to be the second
city next year." But the Quad is here now and I got a chance to drive it
through the streets of San Francisco ahead of today's launch.

Right off the bat, like the rest of the Scoot line, renting it easy. The
company has been able to seamlessly add the little car into its app. Find a
vehicle in a garage, reserve it and then when you arrive, turn it on with
the app. After you complete the rather elaborate startup sequence you can
start cruising around town.

The bubble of a car is more like a go cart or really awesome golf cart then
a economy car. There's a windshield and roof, but no windows in the doors
which incidentally open up like a Lamborghini. It seems ostentatious until
you realize the doors run the length of the car and if you want to bring a
passenger along, you need the extra room.

Oh and about that passenger, they sit in the back seat. The seating
situation is like a log ride or Disney's Space Mountain ride. The passenger
sits behind the driver with their legs on either side of them.

Scoot was looking for a way to let its users give rides to passengers. It's
current line of scooters don't allow for a second person on the bike. This
solution not only lets you bring along a friend, but also opens up
opportunities for different types of rentals. Like showing off your city to
family members when they visit or a very odd date.

On the road, the narrow wheelbase and short length make for a fun, nimble
car. Then you hit 25 miles per hour and the acceleration stops (I was able
to get it to 26 miles per hour once). Scoot has limited the top speed. If
you're used to driving a car, it takes a few miles to get used too. The
speed limit of most streets in San Francisco is 25, so it's technically ok.
But drivers will need to avoid some of the main thoroughfares in the city so
they don't piss off other drivers. Fortunately, the acceleration isn't
damped by the speed cap. It's on par with an economy car. Not quick, but
adequate.

Slow top speed aside, I had fun driving the Quad and talking to the people
that approached me when I pulled over to take photos. And people will
approach you. They're not going to see this vehicle anywhere else. You can't
buy the New Mobility Concept in the United States. While Nissan has modified
the vehicle for US roads, the company isn't jumping into the market just
yet. That's where Scoot comes in. The two companies have partnered for what
they are calling a "research project." Scoot gets to expand its fleet
offerings and Nissan gets data about the car in a busy urban environment.

Scoot members can start renting the Quad today if they're fortunate enough
to receive an invitation. The 10 vehicles will most likely be in high demand
initially, so Scoot is slowly rolling out access to its members starting
with its most active. At launch the car must be picked up and returned to
select garages while the company adds the appropriate chargers to other
parking spots. The price is four times that of a regular scooter rental. So
instead of $2 for a 30 minutes ride, it'll be $8. It's pricier than the bus,
but probably cheaper than Uber or a taxi. Plus, a bit more fun.
[© 2015 AOL]
...
http://news.boldride.com/2015/10/renau

[EVDL] EVLN: EV Drivers Love 'Em, But Don't Buy 'Em, Why Leasing Rules Big

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100513_electric-car-drivers-love-em-but-dont-buy-em-why-leasing-rules
Electric Car Drivers Love 'Em, But Don't Buy 'Em: Why Leasing Rules
By Stephen Edelstein Oct 19, 2015

[images
http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2016-nissan-leaf_100527037_l.jpg
2016 Nissan Leaf

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/chevrolet-bolt-ev-concept-2015-detroit-auto-show_100496689_l.jpg
Chevrolet Bolt EV concept, 2015 Detroit Auto Show

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2016-fiat-500e_100524801_l.jpg
2016 Fiat 500e
]

Electric-car drivers love their vehicles, but that doesn't necessarily mean
they're interested in long-term commitments.

It turns out that the majority of drivers currently lease their plug-in
cars, rather than buy.

Excluding Tesla (which does not release detailed sales information), leasing
represents about 75 percent of the electric-car market in 2015--and it was
80 percent in 2013 and 2014.

In comparison, leasing accounts for only about 28 percent of the overall car
market--and 49.5 percent of the luxury-car market, where it's traditionally
been most popular.

That's because consumers see multiple advantages in not buying their
electric cars outright, according to CNBC.

It's essentially down to the "smartphone mentality," the report says: buyers
aren't interested in keeping their cars long term, because they expect
something better to supersede them fairly soon.

Right now, that's not an unreasonable assumption.

The Tesla Model 3 and Chevrolet Bolt EV are both expected to arrive in or
around 2017 with 200-mile ranges, and a redesigned, second-generation Nissan
Leaf is expected soon as well.

And while many electric cars carry a price premium over comparable
internal-combustion models, lease-rate comparisons are more favorable.

There are currently seven electric-car models being offered with leases
lower than $200 per month for 36 months.

This is because Federal, state, and local incentives are rolled into the
price of a lease, along with any discounts applied by the manufacturer or
dealer.

Incentives like the $7,500 Federal tax credit for electric cars go to the
owner--in this case the finance company holding the lease.

That means dealers can apply it to the rate of a lease, lowering the price
immediately. Individual buyers have to wait until they file their taxes to
receive the discount.

When combined with manufacturer and dealer incentives, this can dramatically
lower the monthly cost of a new electric car.

Back in March, a combination of incentives and discounts on the Fiat 500e
led to some California buyers getting leases at $82.75 per month for 36
months.

Drivers who lease also don't have to worry about residual values.

Concerns about range, battery life, and the "smartphone mentality" may be
keeping the values of cars down when they come off leases, according to
CNBC.

While most cars retain 40 to 50 percent of their original value after three
years, that figure is more like 25 to 30 percent for electric cars.
[© greencarreports.com]

https://thenewswheel.com/three-quarters-of-ev-drivers-dont-buy-their-cars/
Three Quarters of EV Drivers Don’t Buy Their Cars
October 20, 2015

[images
http://thenewswheel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Supporting-TreesCount-20-BMW-i3-Electric-Cars-Donated-to-New-York-City-Parks-side-view.jpg
Supporting TreesCount! 20 BMW i3 Electric Cars Donated to New York City
Parks side view
]

Beyonce would be disappointed in electric car drivers. According to CNBC,
while electric car drivers love their vehicles, most of them simply aren’t
putting a ring on it, with 75% of all EV drivers leasing their vehicles
(this number excludes Tesla, which isn’t really forthcoming with any
specific numbers, and whose unique sales model makes it so leasing data is
not shared with industry trackers).

While this is a light improvement on the 80% of EV drivers in 2013 and 2014,
this percentage is far, far more than leasing numbers in the car sales
industry as a whole, which comes in at 28%. EV leasing even beats luxury car
leasing, which is much more common than the industry as a whole at 49.5%.

The main reason, CNBC thinks [
http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/17/ric-cars.html
], is it doesn’t make long-term sense. To begin with, electric vehicle
technology has been rapidly improving over the past several years, with
range increasing from year to year. With technology advancing so rapidly, it
doesn’t make much sense to commit financially to a car which will soon be
outclassed.

On top of that, leases on EVs can be significantly less expensive than
leases on more mainstream vehicles. This is because any state or federal
incentives on the sale of EVs generally go to the owner of the vehicle—in
the case of leasing, the dealer. While a driver buying an EV has to wait
until the end of the year to reap these benefits, the dealer can apply them
to the lease payment right away.

Besides, EVs are generally more expensive right now. Perhaps, once
t

[EVDL] EVLN: Continental Black Chili performance tyres for Tesla-S EVs