Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
Also a shame they picked such confusing names. Bolt. Volt. On Thu, Jul 9, 2020, 20:30 Peter VanDerWal via EV wrote: > This is why I believed that the 2nd Gen Chevy Bolt was the perfect vehicle > for 90% of the population. > > I.e. for 90% of the population it has enough EV range for 90% of their > driving. When they need to go further than ~50 miles the onboard generator > starts up and you get ~42mpg. > > It's a shame that GM did such a crappy job marketing it and then canceled > it just as it was getting really good. > > July 9, 2020 9:30 AM, "Lee Hart via EV" wrote: > > >> From: paul dove via EV > >> I would say that is only because people fictionally think they need a > 300+ mile range. My i-MiEV > >> goes 40 miles now after 8 years 65 miles new and rarely will it not go > where I need to go... I love > >> that car and while the range cuts it close sometimes I think With 100 > mile range I would have Zero > >> issues. > > > > I agree. What matters is how much range YOU need. > > > > I've driven EVs since the 1970's, and have never needed them to go over > 50-100 miles on a charge. > > The EVs are my daily driver, and I don't drive farther than that on a > daily basis. When I need more > > range, I'm going on a trip; so then I use an ICE car. > > > > Since 90% of my driving is local, 90% of my driving is EV. That's not > 100%; but the perfect is the > > enemy of the good. I'm not willing to pay the Tesla premium for a > perfect 100% EV solution. > > > > -- > > Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James > > -- > > Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com > > ___ > > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200709/878a4430/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
The one in Lowell is new. It wasn’t there the last time I went Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2020, at 9:00 PM, Willie via EV wrote: > > > >> On 7/9/20 8:29 PM, paul dove wrote: >> It’s definitely possible to go anywhere in a Tesla but they aren’t every 100 >> miles. Sometimes > > That's why I said "about 100 miles". > > you have to go out of the way to make your destination because of spacing. > Between Little Rock and Tulsa it’s over 300 miles and the computer in the > Model 3 long range says you cat make it. I didn’t try it the range is > supposed to be 325 miles but I don’t think it will do that on the highway. My > Model S will do it but the range on it is 375. > > I imagine Paul knows this, but for others: > Go to > https://supercharge.info/map > Set range to 100 miles > Under Map Options, set "all range circles on" > The white areas are more than 100 miles from a SuperCharger. > > Those are straight line distances, not road distances. > > The Tesla cars just keep getting better and better with each software update. > Similarly, the SuperCharger network just keeps growing and growing. I > imagine we will soon see one in Ft Smith which would relieve your anxiety > about Little Rock to Tulsa. > > Without considering Little Rock to Tulsa in detail, it looks like you could > go slightly out of your way through Lowell Arkansas. > > >>> Tesla is now dominating the EV market. With very good reason. Range is no >>> longer an issue; most are 300 mile cars, some 400, none below 200. Charging >>> is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a SuperCharger >>> and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 miles apart on >>> essentially all major routes. You can go essentially ANYWHERE in the >>> country, averaging 50+ mph, on SuperChargers. > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
On 7/9/20 9:11 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote: Willie via EV wrote: Charging is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a SuperCharger and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 miles apart on essentially all major routes. Well; if you live in the USA on the east or west coast. But they are few and far between outside of urban areas in the vast spaces between the coasts. Claim Teslas are "too expensive" if you wish. New ones can be bought for less than $40k. Obviously not too expensive for some; but I've never paid even half that for a car. I may get a used one someday (though they are pretty scarce around here -- middle of Minnesota)). I assume you have by now looked at the supercharge.info map as suggested. There IS a big white hole in northern MN! Middle and South MN seems covered now. Look and report if you are within 50 miles of Hinckley, Baxter, or Clearwater It is exciting to see the link to Winnipeg opening "soon". I look forward to taking a W/E trip all the way across southern Canada. BTW all those central Canada SuperChargers are 250kw. Charge rates, on a 3, might reach 600-700 mph. I have not yet personally encountered a 250kw. More to look forward to! Your east coast and west coast argument is no longer valid. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
Yes, I can't justify $40k for a car. That is just crazy to me. I am driving Scion xB with 250k+ miles on it that I paid $11.9k for with 9K miles on it. That is the kind of value I need for me to retire and be financially secure. Taking a loan out for $40k is not going to happen. On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 10:09 PM Lee Hart via EV wrote: > Willie via EV wrote: > > Charging is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a > > SuperCharger and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 > > miles apart on essentially all major routes. > > Well; if you live in the USA on the east or west coast. But they are few > and far between outside of urban areas in the vast spaces between the > coasts. > > > Claim Teslas are "too expensive" if you wish. New ones can be bought > > for less than $40k. > > Obviously not too expensive for some; but I've never paid even half that > for a car. I may get a used one someday (though they are pretty scarce > around here -- middle of Minnesota)). > > Lee Hart > > -- > If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find: > - something to do > - something to look forward to > - someone to love > - someone to take good care of > - and misbehave, just a little > -- > Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Michael E. Ross (919) 585-6737 Land (919) 901-2805 Cell and Text (919) 576-0824 <https://www.google.com/voice/b/0?pli=1#phones> Tablet, Google Phone and Text -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200709/f111c05a/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
It’s definitely possible to go anywhere in a Tesla but they aren’t every 100 miles. Sometimes you have to go out of the way to make your destination because of spacing. Between Little Rock and Tulsa it’s over 300 miles and the computer in the Model 3 long range says you cat make it. I didn’t try it the range is supposed to be 325 miles but I don’t think it will do that on the highway. My Model S will do it but the range on it is 375. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2020, at 4:30 PM, Willie via EV wrote: > > > >> On 7/9/20 3:28 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >> How about an answer more like, "my primary car is the EV. A few times a >> year, I need to go further than its range, so I use car X." Deflect the >> question, like a "good" politician :) > > Tesla is now dominating the EV market. With very good reason. Range is no > longer an issue; most are 300 mile cars, some 400, none below 200. Charging > is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a SuperCharger > and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 miles apart on > essentially all major routes. You can go essentially ANYWHERE in the > country, averaging 50+ mph, on SuperChargers. > > Claim Teslas are "too expensive" if you wish. New ones can be bought for > less than $40k. Sadly, they hold their resale value well and you have > difficulty find used ones for less than $20k. > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
Willie via EV wrote: Charging is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a SuperCharger and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 miles apart on essentially all major routes. Well; if you live in the USA on the east or west coast. But they are few and far between outside of urban areas in the vast spaces between the coasts. Claim Teslas are "too expensive" if you wish. New ones can be bought for less than $40k. Obviously not too expensive for some; but I've never paid even half that for a car. I may get a used one someday (though they are pretty scarce around here -- middle of Minnesota)). Lee Hart -- If happiness is on your mind, here's a daily list to find: - something to do - something to look forward to - someone to love - someone to take good care of - and misbehave, just a little -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
On 7/9/20 8:29 PM, paul dove wrote: It’s definitely possible to go anywhere in a Tesla but they aren’t every 100 miles. Sometimes That's why I said "about 100 miles". you have to go out of the way to make your destination because of spacing. Between Little Rock and Tulsa it’s over 300 miles and the computer in the Model 3 long range says you cat make it. I didn’t try it the range is supposed to be 325 miles but I don’t think it will do that on the highway. My Model S will do it but the range on it is 375. I imagine Paul knows this, but for others: Go to https://supercharge.info/map Set range to 100 miles Under Map Options, set "all range circles on" The white areas are more than 100 miles from a SuperCharger. Those are straight line distances, not road distances. The Tesla cars just keep getting better and better with each software update. Similarly, the SuperCharger network just keeps growing and growing. I imagine we will soon see one in Ft Smith which would relieve your anxiety about Little Rock to Tulsa. Without considering Little Rock to Tulsa in detail, it looks like you could go slightly out of your way through Lowell Arkansas. Tesla is now dominating the EV market. With very good reason. Range is no longer an issue; most are 300 mile cars, some 400, none below 200. Charging is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a SuperCharger and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 miles apart on essentially all major routes. You can go essentially ANYWHERE in the country, averaging 50+ mph, on SuperChargers. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
You are trying too hard! My point was most people don’t have any idea how far they drive a day. They just believe they need it because their ice will do it. I would venture to guess that most people have more than one vehicle. One could be an ice and one electric. https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1006/ML100621425.pdf Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2020, at 3:25 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > I may be the exception, but I think you are misusing the statistic. To say > 85% of the people go 35 miles a day says nothing about how often they go, > say, 150+ miles in a day. > > We need a statistic something like: 70% of people exceed 150 miles a day 5 > times a year. This is a completely different statistic. Then you can start to > ask the question of whether they would be comfortable renting something those > 5 times. > > Peri > > << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? > https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > -- Original Message -- > From: "paul dove" > To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" > > Sent: 09-Jul-20 1:07:50 PM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 > >> You are the exception not the rule. The data I have seen says 85% of the >> people go 35 miles a day. I never claimed everyone only needs 100 miles a >> day. I was also speaking of personal experience driving an EV. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>>> On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: >>> >>> Paul, >>> 300+ mile range isn't fictional. Or, maybe at least 250 miles. >>> >>> Sure, if you rarely go more than, say, 100 miles in a day you can rent >>> something for the exceptions. >>> >>> Using myself as an example, I need a vehicle that can go 200 miles RT for >>> excursions to the mountains. I go 20-25 times a year which justifies owning >>> a vehicle rather than renting. Plus, with a 15 hour day, I don't want the >>> overhead of another hour or two to rent something. Plus, rental companies >>> generally don't allow driving off paved roads, except for short driveways. >>> >>> I think there are many people who have stories, and in all sorts of >>> manners. I also agree, there are plenty of people who think they need it >>> but don't. >>> >>> Peri >>> > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200709/51900cff/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
This is why I believed that the 2nd Gen Chevy Bolt was the perfect vehicle for 90% of the population. I.e. for 90% of the population it has enough EV range for 90% of their driving. When they need to go further than ~50 miles the onboard generator starts up and you get ~42mpg. It's a shame that GM did such a crappy job marketing it and then canceled it just as it was getting really good. July 9, 2020 9:30 AM, "Lee Hart via EV" wrote: >> From: paul dove via EV >> I would say that is only because people fictionally think they need a 300+ >> mile range. My i-MiEV >> goes 40 miles now after 8 years 65 miles new and rarely will it not go where >> I need to go... I love >> that car and while the range cuts it close sometimes I think With 100 mile >> range I would have Zero >> issues. > > I agree. What matters is how much range YOU need. > > I've driven EVs since the 1970's, and have never needed them to go over > 50-100 miles on a charge. > The EVs are my daily driver, and I don't drive farther than that on a daily > basis. When I need more > range, I'm going on a trip; so then I use an ICE car. > > Since 90% of my driving is local, 90% of my driving is EV. That's not 100%; > but the perfect is the > enemy of the good. I'm not willing to pay the Tesla premium for a perfect > 100% EV solution. > > -- > Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James > -- > Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
States electrically (except Hawaii). Yes, I can reach Alaska as this has already been accomplished; several times. I make adjustments to allow for Please elaborate on your Alaska trips, please. I assume you mean up the Alaska Highway. Last summer, I went as far as Ft St John. I looked into going on to Fort Nelson but could only find "30amp" RV park charging there. After that, things looked even worse. I turned around. I had intended to give it another try this summer. But, that hasn't worked out. Maybe summer of 2021. OTOH, I hear the frozen roads are nicer than summer travel. I did find some pretty nasty summer roads but out from Edson, not on the Alaska Highway. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
Depends on the person. Where I used to work there were several people who had 150+ mile commutes, every day. In my current job, I used to travel a LOT (pre-covid). I averaged about 3 trips a month that required flying to the customers location. The trip from my house to the Airport is about 85 miles, each way. Granted an EV with ~140 miles range would probably be sufficient (extra range to handle the 3000 feet of uphill climb on the way home, plus winter time range reduction); however, the Bolt with ~240 miles range can charge up (for free) at the airport and has enough range to drive home, and then back to the airport a few days later. July 9, 2020 4:16 AM, "paul dove via EV" wrote: > I would say that is only because people fictionally think they need a 300+ > mile range. My i-MiEV > goes 40 miles now after 8 years 65 miles new and rarely will it not go where > I need to go. I have a > Tesla now and it’s so much nicer I drive it most of the time. But before > COVID I drive the > Mitsubishi everyday to work. I love that car and while the range cuts it > close sometimes I think > With 100 mile range I would have Zero issues. > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Jul 9, 2020, at 4:35 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: >> >> LiFePO4 only has about half the specific energy of metal oxide (like cobalt) >> cells. >> >> Because they are such low impedance (high specific power) you can reduce the >> weight of the cooling >> system, (or perhaps eliminate it entirely) but that in not nearly enough >> weight to make up the >> difference in an EV application. >> >> LiFePO4 is best when you are more interested in high power, or cycle life, >> or perhaps safety, than >> in maximum energy content per kg. >> Cordless tools, starting, start-stop, hybrids, all are great applications. >> EV's, not so much. >> >> Bill D. >> >>> On 7/10/2020 12:26 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: >> >> On 9 Jul 2020 at 14:30, Bill Dube via EV wrote: >> >> They altered their focus away from EV batteries and towards other >> markets that made more sense for LiFePO4 technology. >>> Obviously I'm not in any position to advise them, but I wonder if it might >>> be time for A123 to review their focus. >>> >>> I don't know how dependent they are on the US market, but with the US >>> seemingly headed for both short and long term economic contraction, they >>> might do well to look toward western Europe and Southeast Asia for growth. >>> There the market for EVs and their batteries is ramping up quickly. >>> >>> EVs there are (unfortunately IMO) getting larger, with more battery space. >>> Something of a range race is heating up, too. >>> >>> If A123 can solve the energy density problem (I mean in terms of volume, not >>> mass), I suspect that they could also grab some of the warranty and spares >>> market. >>> >>> For example, there are quite a few older 2012-2019 Renault Zoes running >>> round the EU. In most countries save Norway the majority have leased >>> batteries. Renault's contract says they'll service the batteries if they >>> fall below 75% capacity. If A123 could supply cells that would yield the >>> nominal original capacity (22kWh or 42kWh) and be the last service that that >>> battery needed, Renault's bean counters might take notice. >>> >>> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey >>> >>> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my >>> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt >>> >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been >>> fooled. >>> >>> -- Mark Twain >>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
I am down to one car and it is an EV. Granted it is a Tesla Model 3 Long Range with about 300 miles of range. I make no excuses and simply say that I can reach any part of the United States electrically (except Hawaii). Yes, I can reach Alaska as this has already been accomplished; several times. I make adjustments to allow for overnight and Supercharging along any route I plan. So far, I do not see any obstacles to reaching any destination in the USA if I want to. Granted, it does not "refill" in less than 5 minutes but when we do recharge, we use that time to go to the Rest Rooms, order a bite to eat, look at the route ahead, dispose of our trash, unplug and get back on the road; give or take 5 minutes or so. For overnight recharging, most motels have rechargers that recharge reasonably at 25 miles per hour for a reasonable fee. So an overnight stay of 14 hours (4PM to 8 AM) would add 350 miles, if I had a pack that large. In the rare incidences where I am in SE Oregon or SW Kansas (dearth of Superchargers), there are plenty of KOA camp grounds etc. with Level 2 rechargers; enough to reach a Supercharger or recharge but with overnight charging. Back home, I usually plug in when I arrive home but there are several days when I have not plugged in. Back home, I never worry about running out of juice. If I come close, I can think about installing a Level 2 and never look back. Ask an ICE driver if they ever fear of running out of gasoline (or diesel). How come? The answer is that they know where the stations are and look at their gas gauge. It is no different with an EV. You look at the charge remaining and look for a Supercharger or head for a motel with Level 2 charging. There are so many electrical receptacles in the US, they are more plentiful than gasoline stations. I love driving electrically and simply "Love it". I am not going to kowtow to some ICE driver who is not amenable to rethinking **how** they refuel. Once you have driven electrically, it's very hard to go back to an ICE. If I had a Leaf or a Bolt (I still technically own a Bolt but I "gave" it to my son to use as a commuter vehicle). (He no longer uses his Kia Forte for his 37 mile one way commute.) I might be more reticent with my comments. As EV develop and our usage of crude oil wanes, I think we shall see longer range EVs with faster charge times and cheaper packs. Just my 2 cents... Peter Eckhoff On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 6:48 PM Willie via EV wrote: > > > On 7/9/20 3:28 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > How about an answer more like, "my primary car is the EV. A few times a > > year, I need to go further than its range, so I use car X." Deflect the > > question, like a "good" politician :) > > Tesla is now dominating the EV market. With very good reason. Range is > no longer an issue; most are 300 mile cars, some 400, none below 200. > Charging is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a > SuperCharger and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 > miles apart on essentially all major routes. You can go essentially > ANYWHERE in the country, averaging 50+ mph, on SuperChargers. > > Claim Teslas are "too expensive" if you wish. New ones can be bought > for less than $40k. Sadly, they hold their resale value well and you > have difficulty find used ones for less than $20k. > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200709/0808a33a/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
You are the exception not the rule. The data I have seen says 85% of the people go 35 miles a day. I never claimed everyone only needs 100 miles a day. I was also speaking of personal experience driving an EV. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > > Paul, > 300+ mile range isn't fictional. Or, maybe at least 250 miles. > > Sure, if you rarely go more than, say, 100 miles in a day you can rent > something for the exceptions. > > Using myself as an example, I need a vehicle that can go 200 miles RT for > excursions to the mountains. I go 20-25 times a year which justifies owning a > vehicle rather than renting. Plus, with a 15 hour day, I don't want the > overhead of another hour or two to rent something. Plus, rental companies > generally don't allow driving off paved roads, except for short driveways. > > I think there are many people who have stories, and in all sorts of manners. > I also agree, there are plenty of people who think they need it but don't. > > Peri > > << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? > https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> > > -- Original Message -- > From: "paul dove via EV" > To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" > Cc: "paul dove" > Sent: 09-Jul-20 4:16:52 AM > Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 > >> I would say that is only because people fictionally think they need a 300+ >> mile range. My i-MiEV goes 40 miles now after 8 years 65 miles new and >> rarely will it not go where I need to go. I have a Tesla now and it’s so >> much nicer I drive it most of the time. But before COVID I drive the >> Mitsubishi everyday to work. I love that car and while the range cuts it >> close sometimes I think With 100 mile range I would have Zero issues. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> On Jul 9, 2020, at 4:35 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: >>> >>> LiFePO4 only has about half the specific energy of metal oxide (like >>> cobalt) cells. >>> >>> Because they are such low impedance (high specific power) you can reduce >>> the weight of the cooling system, (or perhaps eliminate it entirely) but >>> that in not nearly enough weight to make up the difference in an EV >>> application. >>> >>> LiFePO4 is best when you are more interested in high power, or cycle life, >>> or perhaps safety, than in maximum energy content per kg. >>> Cordless tools, starting, start-stop, hybrids, all are great applications. >>> EV's, not so much. >>> >>> Bill D. >>> >>> >>> On 7/10/2020 12:26 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: > On 9 Jul 2020 at 14:30, Bill Dube via EV wrote: > > They altered their focus away from EV batteries and towards other > markets that made more sense for LiFePO4 technology. Obviously I'm not in any position to advise them, but I wonder if it might be time for A123 to review their focus. I don't know how dependent they are on the US market, but with the US seemingly headed for both short and long term economic contraction, they might do well to look toward western Europe and Southeast Asia for growth. There the market for EVs and their batteries is ramping up quickly. EVs there are (unfortunately IMO) getting larger, with more battery space. Something of a range race is heating up, too. If A123 can solve the energy density problem (I mean in terms of volume, not mass), I suspect that they could also grab some of the warranty and spares market. For example, there are quite a few older 2012-2019 Renault Zoes running round the EU. In most countries save Norway the majority have leased batteries. Renault's contract says they'll service the batteries if they fall below 75% capacity. If A123 could supply cells that would yield the nominal original capacity (22kWh or 42kWh) and be the last service that that battery needed, Renault's bean counters might take notice. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled. -- Mark Twain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> ___ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >>> INFO:
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
100 is a low temperature relative to other chemistries. 80% SOC is a good CYA for expensive large packs, but depending on the chemistry you can go higher. Also, the closer you get to the extemes of SOC the more difficult for battery management. Nevertheless, in the time period I mentioned this was true for LiFePO. Worst thing you could do was charge fully and let the pack get moderately warm/hot. Maybe they have better electrolytes now. On Thu, Jul 9, 2020, 2:19 AM EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: > On 8 Jul 2020 at 23:39, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > > > Used to be, I am out of touch, that less than 100°F and 100% SOC was a > > recipe for significant battery degradation. > > I thought it was the other way round - that lithium cells at or near 100% > SOC would degrade rapidly at high temperatures. IIRC, the recommendation > was to keep SOC at or below 80% if high temperatures were expected. Do I > have it backwards? > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey > > To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my > offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > What has allowed so many psychopathic personalities to rise so high > in corporations, and now in government, is that they are so decisive. > Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the > simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. > > -- Kurt Vonnegut > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA ( > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200709/685aed0a/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
I agree! I also found that on days when I had a meeting in the evening that a 2 hour charge after I got home from work while I had my dinner was often enough to go to my meeting or run errands. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2020, at 2:55 PM, Mr. Sharkey via EV wrote: > > > 90% of my driving is local, 90% of my driving is EV. > > That's not 100%; but the perfect is the enemy of the good. > > I'm not willing to pay the Tesla premium > > for a perfect 100% EV solution. > > If more people realized this, more of them would purchase EV's. > > I'm frequently asked by interested people about my car's range. Answering > with a mileage figure is always a disappointment for them. They expect a > sound byte answer that will satisfy all their driving needs. Anything less is > a complete denial of the usefulness of the vehicle. > > It takes longer to explain that the car fulfills a large percentage of my > commuting and hauling needs. If it's snowing, or I need to tow a trailer, or > climb to a mountain-top transmitter site, I take my 4x4 pickup ICE. If I need > to take off for a weekend at a friend's beach house, and need more range and > speed, I take my diesel Rabbit. Is the EV a perfect solution to every need? > No, no tool ever is. I insure three vehicles, which is the downside to having > a wide range of transportation needs. That's my penalty for having an active > life. Renting and ICE for those times the EV won't serve would make a lot of > sense, if there was such a service available locally. > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
On 9 Jul 2020 at 0:00, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > I've driven EVs since the 1970's, and have never needed them to go > over 50-100 miles on a charge ...When I need more range ... I use an ICE > car. I don't disagree with this. I also think that media pieces about EVs have often made too much of "range anxiety." However, we're not typical of the world. Many places where EVs are advancing faster than here don't have the same percentage of households with multiple vehicles. For example, the UK's multiple vehicle household rate is about half of ours (31% vs 58%). In those places, "I use an ICE car" is more likely to mean renting or borrowing one. It's not impossible, just less convenient. So even though their countries are smaller and destinations often closer for them, folks in most other nations are more likely to need longer range EVs, or at least think they do. Also consider that as an EV ages, its range declines, range is always lower in winter, and advertised range is usually pretty optimistic. Practically speaking, you need an EV with at least twice your actual range requirement. If a 50-100 mile range is ample, you probably need an ev with a claimed range of 100-200 miles. Fortunately, that's where range is headed these days. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. -- Edward R Murrow = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
On 7/9/20 3:28 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: How about an answer more like, "my primary car is the EV. A few times a year, I need to go further than its range, so I use car X." Deflect the question, like a "good" politician :) Tesla is now dominating the EV market. With very good reason. Range is no longer an issue; most are 300 mile cars, some 400, none below 200. Charging is no longer an issue. Most everyone is within 50 miles of a SuperCharger and SuperChargers are (intelligently) spaced about 100 miles apart on essentially all major routes. You can go essentially ANYWHERE in the country, averaging 50+ mph, on SuperChargers. Claim Teslas are "too expensive" if you wish. New ones can be bought for less than $40k. Sadly, they hold their resale value well and you have difficulty find used ones for less than $20k. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
July 9, 2020 8:18 AM, "EVDL Administrator via EV" wrote: > On 8 Jul 2020 at 23:39, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > >> Used to be, I am out of touch, that less than 100°F and 100% SOC was a >> recipe for significant battery degradation. > > I thought it was the other way round - that lithium cells at or near 100% > SOC would degrade rapidly at high temperatures. IIRC, the recommendation > was to keep SOC at or below 80% if high temperatures were expected. Do I > have it backwards? > > David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey That's my understanding as well. I rarely charge the Bolt to more than 90% and when it's hot (like now) I try to keep it below 80% SOC unless I have a specific need to go higher. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
How about an answer more like, "my primary car is the EV. A few times a year, I need to go further than its range, so I use car X." Deflect the question, like a "good" politician :) We have the Leaf (2011) and it is our primary car. Even with its horribly degraded range, it is almost exclusively used on a day to day basis. (Still, only accounts for 1/2 the overall mileage since the other vehicle is used for long range stuff.) Peri << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "Mr. Sharkey via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "Mr. Sharkey" Sent: 09-Jul-20 12:53:40 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 > 90% of my driving is local, 90% of my driving is EV. > That's not 100%; but the perfect is the enemy of the good. > I'm not willing to pay the Tesla premium > for a perfect 100% EV solution. If more people realized this, more of them would purchase EV's. I'm frequently asked by interested people about my car's range. Answering with a mileage figure is always a disappointment for them. They expect a sound byte answer that will satisfy all their driving needs. Anything less is a complete denial of the usefulness of the vehicle. It takes longer to explain that the car fulfills a large percentage of my commuting and hauling needs. If it's snowing, or I need to tow a trailer, or climb to a mountain-top transmitter site, I take my 4x4 pickup ICE. If I need to take off for a weekend at a friend's beach house, and need more range and speed, I take my diesel Rabbit. Is the EV a perfect solution to every need? No, no tool ever is. I insure three vehicles, which is the downside to having a wide range of transportation needs. That's my penalty for having an active life. Renting and ICE for those times the EV won't serve would make a lot of sense, if there was such a service available locally. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
I may be the exception, but I think you are misusing the statistic. To say 85% of the people go 35 miles a day says nothing about how often they go, say, 150+ miles in a day. We need a statistic something like: 70% of people exceed 150 miles a day 5 times a year. This is a completely different statistic. Then you can start to ask the question of whether they would be comfortable renting something those 5 times. Peri << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "paul dove" To: "Peri Hartman" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Sent: 09-Jul-20 1:07:50 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 You are the exception not the rule. The data I have seen says 85% of the people go 35 miles a day. I never claimed everyone only needs 100 miles a day. I was also speaking of personal experience driving an EV. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: Paul, 300+ mile range isn't fictional. Or, maybe at least 250 miles. Sure, if you rarely go more than, say, 100 miles in a day you can rent something for the exceptions. Using myself as an example, I need a vehicle that can go 200 miles RT for excursions to the mountains. I go 20-25 times a year which justifies owning a vehicle rather than renting. Plus, with a 15 hour day, I don't want the overhead of another hour or two to rent something. Plus, rental companies generally don't allow driving off paved roads, except for short driveways. I think there are many people who have stories, and in all sorts of manners. I also agree, there are plenty of people who think they need it but don't. Peri ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
> 90% of my driving is local, 90% of my driving is EV. > That's not 100%; but the perfect is the enemy of the good. > I'm not willing to pay the Tesla premium > for a perfect 100% EV solution. If more people realized this, more of them would purchase EV's. I'm frequently asked by interested people about my car's range. Answering with a mileage figure is always a disappointment for them. They expect a sound byte answer that will satisfy all their driving needs. Anything less is a complete denial of the usefulness of the vehicle. It takes longer to explain that the car fulfills a large percentage of my commuting and hauling needs. If it's snowing, or I need to tow a trailer, or climb to a mountain-top transmitter site, I take my 4x4 pickup ICE. If I need to take off for a weekend at a friend's beach house, and need more range and speed, I take my diesel Rabbit. Is the EV a perfect solution to every need? No, no tool ever is. I insure three vehicles, which is the downside to having a wide range of transportation needs. That's my penalty for having an active life. Renting and ICE for those times the EV won't serve would make a lot of sense, if there was such a service available locally. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
>From: paul dove via EV >I would say that is only because people fictionally think they need a 300+ >mile range. My i-MiEV goes 40 miles now after 8 years 65 miles new and rarely >will it not go where I need to go... I love that car and while the range cuts >it close sometimes I think With 100 mile range I would have Zero issues. I agree. What matters is how much range YOU need. I've driven EVs since the 1970's, and have never needed them to go over 50-100 miles on a charge. The EVs are my daily driver, and I don't drive farther than that on a daily basis. When I need more range, I'm going on a trip; so then I use an ICE car. Since 90% of my driving is local, 90% of my driving is EV. That's not 100%; but the perfect is the enemy of the good. I'm not willing to pay the Tesla premium for a perfect 100% EV solution. -- Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James -- Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
Paul, 300+ mile range isn't fictional. Or, maybe at least 250 miles. Sure, if you rarely go more than, say, 100 miles in a day you can rent something for the exceptions. Using myself as an example, I need a vehicle that can go 200 miles RT for excursions to the mountains. I go 20-25 times a year which justifies owning a vehicle rather than renting. Plus, with a 15 hour day, I don't want the overhead of another hour or two to rent something. Plus, rental companies generally don't allow driving off paved roads, except for short driveways. I think there are many people who have stories, and in all sorts of manners. I also agree, there are plenty of people who think they need it but don't. Peri << Want to know about the effects of leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >> -- Original Message -- From: "paul dove via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "paul dove" Sent: 09-Jul-20 4:16:52 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4 I would say that is only because people fictionally think they need a 300+ mile range. My i-MiEV goes 40 miles now after 8 years 65 miles new and rarely will it not go where I need to go. I have a Tesla now and it’s so much nicer I drive it most of the time. But before COVID I drive the Mitsubishi everyday to work. I love that car and while the range cuts it close sometimes I think With 100 mile range I would have Zero issues. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 9, 2020, at 4:35 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: LiFePO4 only has about half the specific energy of metal oxide (like cobalt) cells. Because they are such low impedance (high specific power) you can reduce the weight of the cooling system, (or perhaps eliminate it entirely) but that in not nearly enough weight to make up the difference in an EV application. LiFePO4 is best when you are more interested in high power, or cycle life, or perhaps safety, than in maximum energy content per kg. Cordless tools, starting, start-stop, hybrids, all are great applications. EV's, not so much. Bill D. On 7/10/2020 12:26 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 9 Jul 2020 at 14:30, Bill Dube via EV wrote: They altered their focus away from EV batteries and towards other markets that made more sense for LiFePO4 technology. Obviously I'm not in any position to advise them, but I wonder if it might be time for A123 to review their focus. I don't know how dependent they are on the US market, but with the US seemingly headed for both short and long term economic contraction, they might do well to look toward western Europe and Southeast Asia for growth. There the market for EVs and their batteries is ramping up quickly. EVs there are (unfortunately IMO) getting larger, with more battery space. Something of a range race is heating up, too. If A123 can solve the energy density problem (I mean in terms of volume, not mass), I suspect that they could also grab some of the warranty and spares market. For example, there are quite a few older 2012-2019 Renault Zoes running round the EU. In most countries save Norway the majority have leased batteries. Renault's contract says they'll service the batteries if they fall below 75% capacity. If A123 could supply cells that would yield the nominal original capacity (22kWh or 42kWh) and be the last service that that battery needed, Renault's bean counters might take notice. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled. -- Mark Twain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
I would say that is only because people fictionally think they need a 300+ mile range. My i-MiEV goes 40 miles now after 8 years 65 miles new and rarely will it not go where I need to go. I have a Tesla now and it’s so much nicer I drive it most of the time. But before COVID I drive the Mitsubishi everyday to work. I love that car and while the range cuts it close sometimes I think With 100 mile range I would have Zero issues. Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2020, at 4:35 AM, Bill Dube via EV wrote: > > LiFePO4 only has about half the specific energy of metal oxide (like cobalt) > cells. > > Because they are such low impedance (high specific power) you can reduce the > weight of the cooling system, (or perhaps eliminate it entirely) but that in > not nearly enough weight to make up the difference in an EV application. > > LiFePO4 is best when you are more interested in high power, or cycle life, or > perhaps safety, than in maximum energy content per kg. > Cordless tools, starting, start-stop, hybrids, all are great applications. > EV's, not so much. > > Bill D. > > > >> On 7/10/2020 12:26 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: >>> On 9 Jul 2020 at 14:30, Bill Dube via EV wrote: >>> >>> They altered their focus away from EV batteries and towards other >>> markets that made more sense for LiFePO4 technology. >> Obviously I'm not in any position to advise them, but I wonder if it might >> be time for A123 to review their focus. >> >> I don't know how dependent they are on the US market, but with the US >> seemingly headed for both short and long term economic contraction, they >> might do well to look toward western Europe and Southeast Asia for growth. >> There the market for EVs and their batteries is ramping up quickly. >> >> EVs there are (unfortunately IMO) getting larger, with more battery space. >> Something of a range race is heating up, too. >> >> If A123 can solve the energy density problem (I mean in terms of volume, not >> mass), I suspect that they could also grab some of the warranty and spares >> market. >> >> For example, there are quite a few older 2012-2019 Renault Zoes running >> round the EU. In most countries save Norway the majority have leased >> batteries. Renault's contract says they'll service the batteries if they >> fall below 75% capacity. If A123 could supply cells that would yield the >> nominal original capacity (22kWh or 42kWh) and be the last service that that >> battery needed, Renault's bean counters might take notice. >> >> David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey >> >> To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my >> offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt >> >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been >> fooled. >> >> -- Mark Twain >> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> >> ___ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html >> INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electric Cars vs Small Electric Trucks (made of Unobtanium)
Hi Mark, I have a Ford Ranger EV 2000 which was converted to LFP batteries. About 600 remain in NA, some for sale. Might be of interest to you. Take care Denis Boutet La Vérité te libérera > Le 9 juill. 2020 à 09:47, Mark Hanson via EV a écrit : > > >> The Tesla 3 is a nice long range car or Chevy Bolt etc It’s more of a >> direct fit to make an electric car since most folks have a fixed mission >> profile, back and forth to work everyday with a few side errands. A truck >> is hard, the distance is usually variable and the load (either hauling or >> dragging) is variable cutting the range in half. Not sure how that will >> work in the open market, probably why they have to put in a *huge* battery >> with a huge price tag (also making the truck big). Guess I’m stuck with my >> smaller old gas Ford Ranger for awhile, don’t want a bulky energy wasteful >> behemoth. >> Best regards >> Mark >> >> Sent from my solar powered iPhone >>> > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html > INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20200709/8fb60909/attachment.html> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Electric Cars vs Small Electric Trucks (made of Unobtanium)
> The Tesla 3 is a nice long range car or Chevy Bolt etc It’s more of a > direct fit to make an electric car since most folks have a fixed mission > profile, back and forth to work everyday with a few side errands. A truck is > hard, the distance is usually variable and the load (either hauling or > dragging) is variable cutting the range in half. Not sure how that will > work in the open market, probably why they have to put in a *huge* battery > with a huge price tag (also making the truck big). Guess I’m stuck with my > smaller old gas Ford Ranger for awhile, don’t want a bulky energy wasteful > behemoth. > Best regards > Mark > > Sent from my solar powered iPhone >> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] LiFePo4 Cycles? Not 1M
Hi When I used to convert gassers to EVs and used Thundersky and Calb LiFePO4 batteries, I’d get about 50k miles or 1K cycles with balancersThe range would drop down some and stop making the 50 mile round trip to GE Renewable Energy (also about that time got bored with driving that particular vehicle). That was the case for the Electro Metro, E-Jeep, Porsche 914 and Karmann Ghia to 2014. (Cycles were close to what Tsky and Calb data sheet showed for 80%dod) 1M miles sounds like marketing BS or wishful thinking. Have a renewable energy day Mark. REEVAdiy.org Sent from my iPhone ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
LiFePO4 only has about half the specific energy of metal oxide (like cobalt) cells. Because they are such low impedance (high specific power) you can reduce the weight of the cooling system, (or perhaps eliminate it entirely) but that in not nearly enough weight to make up the difference in an EV application. LiFePO4 is best when you are more interested in high power, or cycle life, or perhaps safety, than in maximum energy content per kg. Cordless tools, starting, start-stop, hybrids, all are great applications. EV's, not so much. Bill D. On 7/10/2020 12:26 AM, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: On 9 Jul 2020 at 14:30, Bill Dube via EV wrote: They altered their focus away from EV batteries and towards other markets that made more sense for LiFePO4 technology. Obviously I'm not in any position to advise them, but I wonder if it might be time for A123 to review their focus. I don't know how dependent they are on the US market, but with the US seemingly headed for both short and long term economic contraction, they might do well to look toward western Europe and Southeast Asia for growth. There the market for EVs and their batteries is ramping up quickly. EVs there are (unfortunately IMO) getting larger, with more battery space. Something of a range race is heating up, too. If A123 can solve the energy density problem (I mean in terms of volume, not mass), I suspect that they could also grab some of the warranty and spares market. For example, there are quite a few older 2012-2019 Renault Zoes running round the EU. In most countries save Norway the majority have leased batteries. Renault's contract says they'll service the batteries if they fall below 75% capacity. If A123 could supply cells that would yield the nominal original capacity (22kWh or 42kWh) and be the last service that that battery needed, Renault's bean counters might take notice. David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled. -- Mark Twain = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Ford should rush-in w/ an Escort Wagon EV
https://www.hotcars.com/ford-should-make-legacy-model-electric-asap/
Ford Should Make This Legacy Model Electric ASAP
2020-07-01 Ford could charge in and reap havoc by re-introducing an
all-electric version of the Escort Wagon. As the car market moves into the
all-electric space, there appears to be somewhat of a gap when it comes to
wagon options ...
https://static0.hotcarsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/drivemag.jpg
+
https://scotteblog.com/2020/07/01/howard-county-public-school-system-is-introducing-two-electric-school-buses-in-a-pilot-program/
Howard County Public School System is introducing two electric school buses
in a pilot program
July 1, 2020 ... project will continue through June 2021 ... two electric
buses will be rotated among bus routes to various schools, and the buses
will be made available for students’ use in energy research and conservation
projects. Data will be collected on energy use and efficiency, which BGE
will analyze ... performance in terms of peak load reduction, grid
balancing, battery resiliency and other factors ...
https://i2.wp.com/scotteblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/83851536_2506378262963845_2431985932409241600_o.jpg
For EVLN EV-newswire posts view:
http://www.evdl.org/archive/
https://mail-archive.com/ev@lists.evdl.org/maillist.html
{brucedp.neocities.org}
--
Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html
INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] LiFePO4
On 8 Jul 2020 at 23:39, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > Used to be, I am out of touch, that less than 100°F and 100% SOC was a > recipe for significant battery degradation. I thought it was the other way round - that lithium cells at or near 100% SOC would degrade rapidly at high temperatures. IIRC, the recommendation was to keep SOC at or below 80% if high temperatures were expected. Do I have it backwards? David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it. Use my offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = What has allowed so many psychopathic personalities to rise so high in corporations, and now in government, is that they are so decisive. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. -- Kurt Vonnegut = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub ARCHIVE: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html INFO: http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
