Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

On 11/22/2015 01:06 PM, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

tomw via EV wrote:

I did something similar to this, only using 240VAC rather than 120VAC.  I
have both NEMA 14-50  and J1772 power inputs to the charger.  I used this
DPST relay with 240VAC coil to switch between them:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/magnecraft-schneider-electric-w199apx15.html?p=29816731



This relay is a good choice for this application. One important feature
is that its normally-closed contacts have the same voltage-current
rating as the normally-open contacts. This is not true for many relays
(read the fine print!)



Good point, the relay I was considering was only rated at 30A for the NO 
contacts, and only 3A for the NC contacts! Back to digikey


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[tomw via EV]

Hi Jay,

One of your proposed solutions was: /"By default the J1772 is connected to
the chargers, but if you plug 120 volts AC into the RV inlet, the relay
switches the chargers over to the 120 volt side, disconnecting the J1772
inlet as a bonus."/

I did something similar to this, only using 240VAC rather than 120VAC.  I
have both NEMA 14-50  and J1772 power inputs to the charger.  I used this
DPST relay with 240VAC coil to switch between them:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/magnecraft-schneider-electric-w199apx15.html?p=29816731

I wired 240VAC from the NEMA 14-50 to the coil and connected the inputs so
that the J1772 is connected to the charger when there is no power to the
NEMA 14-50, and plugging in the 14-50 activates the relay, connecting the
14-50 to the charger.  I wired it with J1772 as the "default" (no power to
the relay coil) so that if the relay happens to fail to switch while I am
miles away from home needing to charge at an EVSE to return, the J1772 input
works.  Has worked well.


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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

That would be more "elegant" and I have one of those, the Leaf OEM one, 
which costs $200-250 to replace if somebody steals it.
A $20 extension cord is a lot less likely to be stolen, as it doesn't 
look "valuable".


The relay and inlet and wires/connectors will cost me less than 
$50...and then I could sell my  J1772 portable charger for $200 profit.



The other option is to weld a piece a piece of steel with a hole in it 
to my truck frame and buy a padlock that would go around the portable 
J1772 inlet cable, but that wouldn't stop somebody from cutting the wire 
to steal copper, and it also wouldn’t allow me to sell the portable J1772.



Jay

On 11/21/2015 09:05 PM, Haritech (Gmail) wrote:

Any reason not to just use a J1772 portable charger?

Lawrence


On Nov 21, 2015, at 13:57, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:

Here is the specific circuit I have designed.

http://s9.postimg.org/ikp4miuhb/inlet_schematic.png

I would like any feedback on the above schematic. (Note that it only shows the 
240 volt power from the J1227 and 120 volt power from the RV inlet, the 
Prox/Pilot lines from the J1227 are connected to the charger controller, and it 
handles enabling the EVSE.)

Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Lee Hart via EV]

tomw via EV wrote:

I did something similar to this, only using 240VAC rather than 120VAC.  I
have both NEMA 14-50  and J1772 power inputs to the charger.  I used this
DPST relay with 240VAC coil to switch between them:
http://www.onlinecomponents.com/magnecraft-schneider-electric-w199apx15.html?p=29816731


This relay is a good choice for this application. One important feature 
is that its normally-closed contacts have the same voltage-current 
rating as the normally-open contacts. This is not true for many relays 
(read the fine print!)


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that it needs doing. -- anonymous
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Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Roland via EV]

   
Hello Jay.

 

I have two charging inlets that is very simple to use.  One is a 50 amp 4 wire 
125/250 volt power receptacle and a 20 amp 3 wire 125V receptacle.  The 50 amp 
inlet is under the hinge license plate holder and the 20 amp is under the gas 
inlet cover.  

 

The PFC-50 charger I have can accept either 125 or 250 voltage.  There is no 
inlet relay or contactor between the commercial power and charger.  I use a 
four wire terminal power block between the charger and main power 50 amp inlet.

 

The PFC chargers uses a 4 wire input which is RED Phase 1, Black Phase 2, White 
Neutral and Green ground.  All four wires are use for 250/125 volts.  The 
Black, White and Green is use for 125 volts.  

 

Just don't plug in the 20 amp 125 volt and 50 amp 250 volt receptacle at the 
same time. 

 

A optional connection for the 20 amp 125 volt circuit, is to mount a on board 
circuit breaker chassis bars that accepts standard 20 amp breakers between the 
125 V receptacle and the charger. This breaker could be a ground fault type.

 

I install the duel voltage circuit back in 1980 and nothing blew up yet.

 

Roland 


- Original Message - 

From: Jay Summet via EV 

To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List 

Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 4:05 AM

Subject: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question



I'm upgrading my charger, and the new charge controller supports j1772 
signalling (and I have it working with a j1772 inlet).

But, it also supports 4 user selectable profiles via a rotary switch, so 
I could program one of the profiles to NOT use j1772 signalling and 
assume the input is 120 volts and 12 amps.

This would allow me to use a standard 15 amp RV shore power inlet also 
connected to the chargers with a $20 extension cord, instead of a $250 
external EVSE cordset that would be expensive to replace if stolen.


Obviously, having a 120v 15A MALE PLUGS RV inlet "energized" at 240 
volts while using the J1772 side of things isn't a good idea (even if it 
does have a small rubber door / plug that goes over it.)

I invite comments on my options for wiring this up:

Option A: Physical interlock. Have a sliding metal door such that only 
the 120v 15A RV inlet, OR the J1772 is visible at a single point in 
time.  (Simple, but may be harder to set up, as I was going to put my 
inlets in the front bumper area behind a flip down license plate holder.)

Option B: Electronic "interlock" consisting of a 120 volt coil relay 
that can switch 240 volts set up so that the common is connected to the 
chargers, the RV inlet is connected to the "NO"  side and the coil, and 
the J1772 is connected to the "NC" side.

By default the J1772 is connected to the chargers, but if you plug 120 
volts AC into the RV inlet, the relay switches the chargers over to the 
120 volt side, disconnecting the J1772 inlet as a bonus.

Here is a link to the part I'm considering (the chargers use 18 amps at 
240 volts, and would be limited to 12 amps at 120 volts, so 30A should 
be well rated...
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/T92S11A22-120/PB597-ND/678230

I'm leaning towards the "electronic interlock" because I feel that using 
a relay to join all the wires from the two inlets and charger will 
actually simplify my wiring, and be easier than making a sliding door, 
but I'd like any comments you may have about potential issues I haven't 
seen.

Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

The PFC chargers uses a 4 wire input which is RED Phase 1, Black Phase
2, White Neutral and Green ground.  All four wires are use for 250/125
volts.  The Black, White and Green is use for 125 volts.


Unfortunately, my chargers are dual voltage and only use 3 wires, L1/N, 
L2, and ground, so I cant separate the 2 phases of 240 from the 1 phase 
of 120 without active switching.



Just don't plug in the 20 amp 125 volt and 50 amp 250 volt receptacle at
the same time.


Well yes, *I* don't need any interlocks to know not to do thatbut I 
like to make it so that nobody else can do anything stupid when I'm not 
there




A optional connection for the 20 amp 125 volt circuit, is to mount a on
board circuit breaker chassis bars that accepts standard 20 amp breakers
between the 125 V receptacle and the charger.


That is the other option, have a manual switch or plug that I change 
over when opportunity charging...but I wanted to set it up so that I 
wouldn't have to open the hood and swap things around.


Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

Its use would also be an ice-head familiar inlet for them to understand and
use when the EV is under their care ("Yea, just keep it plugged-in to
protect the battery, while you wait for the parts to come in ... [keeps pack
from bricking] ).




Yes, that is exactly the type of thing that I'd like to 
support...opportunity charging and an easy way for a mechanic or friend 
who borrows the truck to keep it charged up without an EVSE.





The electrical-relay would do the same thing only use a circuit to sense
power has been applied to the j1772. If so, the L1 inlet would be (relay)
disconnected (so no one could get shocked from live power on the 5-15 inlet,
etc.).



My thought was to keep the L1 inlet disconnected by default (on the 
Normally Open relay contacts), and have the J1772 always connected (on 
the normally closed contacts). However, if you apply power to the L1, 
(attached to the relay coil) it would disconnect the J1772 via the relay 
activating and connect the L1 inlet to the charger.


No current sensing involved, just using the 120 volts AC on the L1 inlet 
to activate the relay.



Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Lee Hart via EV]

Jay Summet via EV wrote:

Just don't plug in the 20 amp 125 volt and 50 amp 250 volt receptacle at
the same time.



Well yes, *I* don't need any interlocks to know not to do thatbut I
like to make it so that nobody else can do anything stupid when I'm not
there


Lester chargers have an elegantly simply way to handle this. They have 
male 120v and 240v plugs on the front panel. You then have two cords, 
one for 120vac and one for 240vac. The trick is that there's a sliding 
door over the two connectors. To use the 120v plug, you slide the door 
over to cover the 240vac plug. And vice versa to use the 240v plug. 
There's no way to plug in two cords at once, or to touch the unused male 
plug's pins when "hot". :-)


--
Do the thing that needs to be done, even if no one else yet notices
that it needs doing. -- anonymous
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Jay Summet via EV]

Here is the specific circuit I have designed.

http://s9.postimg.org/ikp4miuhb/inlet_schematic.png

I would like any feedback on the above schematic. (Note that it only 
shows the 240 volt power from the J1227 and 120 volt power from the RV 
inlet, the Prox/Pilot lines from the J1227 are connected to the charger 
controller, and it handles enabling the EVSE.)


Thanks,
Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[Haritech (Gmail) via EV]

Any reason not to just use a J1772 portable charger?

Lawrence

> On Nov 21, 2015, at 13:57, Jay Summet via EV  wrote:
> 
> Here is the specific circuit I have designed.
> 
> http://s9.postimg.org/ikp4miuhb/inlet_schematic.png
> 
> I would like any feedback on the above schematic. (Note that it only shows 
> the 240 volt power from the J1227 and 120 volt power from the RV inlet, the 
> Prox/Pilot lines from the J1227 are connected to the charger controller, and 
> it handles enabling the EVSE.)
> 
> Thanks,
> Jay
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Re: [EVDL] Two charging inlets - relay "interlock" / safety question

[brucedp5 via EV]

If I understood correctly, your idea is similar to what I would want to do if
I had a production EV> add a standard 5-15 inlet for a L1 120VAC charging
ability. Those who know my EV history, see
http://brucedp.150m.com/blazer/blazer020504-001.jpg
 image of the 6 inlets in the grill of my Blazer EV on page
http://brucedp.150m.com/blazer/
 are aware at that time when the EVSE infrastructure was in a state of flux,
I wanted the flexibility of being able to charge off multiple outlets.

For example only, if I had a e-NV200 e-Van, I would like to add a standard
5-15 inlet in the front that would go to a separate charger  (perhaps an
Elcon PFC 2500 Battery Charger that can operate off L1 120VAC or L2
208-240VAC). I would have the flexibility of using that inlet for L1
charging, but with adapters I could use that inlet to provide 240VAC.

As was posted, charging off a cheap L1 extension cord would be a less costly
if ripped off (these things do happen: vandalism, copper-thieves, etc.). 

Its use would also be an ice-head familiar inlet for them to understand and
use when the EV is under their care ("Yea, just keep it plugged-in to
protect the battery, while you wait for the parts to come in ... [keeps pack
from bricking] ).

I suggest you consider one of two methods: low-tech> mechanical-switch
circuit, or higher-tech> electrical-relay circuit.

The mechanical-switch concept-idea would be to manually (by hand) set to the
switch to either j1772 (the 5-15 inlet would be disconnected from any power
internally), or L1 where the j1772 power was disabled (essentially making
the j1772 inoperative).

The electrical-relay would do the same thing only use a circuit to sense
power has been applied to the j1772. If so, the L1 inlet would be (relay)
disconnected (so no one could get shocked from live power on the 5-15 inlet,
etc.).

I hope whatever you decide, you make your design available for others to
view so they could also use your good ideas :-)



For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: 
http://evdl.org/evln/


{brucedp.150m.com}

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