Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.01.2012 06:29 John Clark said the following: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Craig Weinbergwhatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Sure, our belief in simulations can make them seem quite realistic to us. That doesn't make them real though. And so simulators join a long long long list of things

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: If to talk about Galileo, then it would also good to remember Feyerabend (for example Against method). Feyerabend has studied the way Galileo has made science a lot and his conclusion: The church at the time of Galileo was much more

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.01.2012 17:08 John Clark said the following: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: If to talk about Galileo, then it would also good to remember Feyerabend (for example Against method). Feyerabend has studied the way Galileo has made science a lot and his

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 06 Jan 2012, at 17:54, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 17:08 John Clark said the following: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: If to talk about Galileo, then it would also good to remember Feyerabend (for example Against method). Feyerabend has studied the

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Bruno, I have recently finished listening Prof Hoenen's Theorien der Wahrheit where he has also reviewed Feyerabend's Science in a Free Society. Today I wanted to learn more about that book and have found in Internet Paul Feyerabend, 1975 How To Defend Society Against Science

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread meekerdb
On 1/6/2012 1:23 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 05.01.2012 06:29 John Clark said the following: On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Craig Weinbergwhatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Sure, our belief in simulations can make them seem quite realistic to us. That doesn't make them real though. And so

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread meekerdb
On 1/6/2012 8:54 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 17:08 John Clark said the following: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: If to talk about Galileo, then it would also good to remember Feyerabend (for example Against method). Feyerabend has studied the way

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.01.2012 20:13 meekerdb said the following: On 1/6/2012 8:54 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 17:08 John Clark said the following: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: ... This statement contradict to a normal scientific world view but it is based on

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread meekerdb
On 1/6/2012 11:26 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 20:13 meekerdb said the following: On 1/6/2012 8:54 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 17:08 John Clark said the following: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru wrote: ... This statement contradict to a normal

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread meekerdb
On 1/6/2012 10:14 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Bruno, I have recently finished listening Prof Hoenen's Theorien der Wahrheit where he has also reviewed Feyerabend's Science in a Free Society. Today I wanted to learn more about that book and have found in Internet Paul Feyerabend, 1975 How To

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.01.2012 20:35 meekerdb said the following: On 1/6/2012 11:26 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 20:13 meekerdb said the following: On 1/6/2012 8:54 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 17:08 John Clark said the following: On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 Evgenii Rudnyiuse...@rudnyi.ru

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread meekerdb
On 1/6/2012 12:07 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 20:35 meekerdb said the following: On 1/6/2012 11:26 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 20:13 meekerdb said the following: On 1/6/2012 8:54 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 06.01.2012 17:08 John Clark said the following: On Fri, Jan

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 06.01.2012 21:15 meekerdb said the following: On 1/6/2012 12:07 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... I do not know, I cannot exclude that German authorities have some censorship in Internet (or Google censors its content to Germany) but when I run Google scholar http://scholar.google.com/ and

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread meekerdb
On 1/6/2012 12:37 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Whatever the numbers I'm sure you take my point that the number of citations has very little to do with the correctness or importance of an author. Nobody cites Isaac Newton in physics papers anymore. Brent Run Isaac Newton in the Google Scholar

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: This does not mean that everybody has to agree with him [Feyerabend] but a statement about an idiot looks exaggerated. If one can not use the word idiot to refer to someone who says things like The church at the time of

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: In fact I do agree often with John Clark, but then he exaggerates also very often the point. I've told you a million times I never exaggerate. The church was asking to Galileo to present his view as a theory or

Re: Self-driving cars

2012-01-06 Thread Charles Goodwin
Black hole evaporation. I am thinking about some work by Hawking. Could you point me towards it? I know Hawking conceded a bet on this recently but I'm not sure why. But $any* true erasing of information is forbid in any theory where QM applies universally. Unitary evolution cannot erase

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Only one reason, we can't make a good enough simulation for that because we don't have enough INFORMATION. If our contemporary knowledge of physics is so complete, then that should be all the information we need.

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread John Clark
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 3:55 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: But you are right, Feyerabend is no idiot. He is insightful. He knows that reputation in philosophy is most easily gained by taking a position contrary to common wisdom. If Feyerabend believed what he said about Galileo

Re: JOINING Post and On measure alteration mechanisms and other practical tests for COMP

2012-01-06 Thread acw
On 1/6/2012 18:57, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 05 Jan 2012, at 11:02, acw wrote: Hello everything-list, this is my first post here, but I've been reading this list for at least half a year, and I'm afraid this post will be a bit long as it contains many thoughts I've had on my mind for quite some

Re: An analogy for Qualia

2012-01-06 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Jan 6, 10:33 pm, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote: Only one reason, we can't make a good enough simulation for that because we don't have enough INFORMATION. If our contemporary knowledge of physics is so