Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Dec 2014, at 16:50, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: At one time the human race was knowledgeable enough to construct the Antikythera Mechanism, but 200 years after it was made Jesus was born and started a major world

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:49 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2014 at 23:36, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: You can notice the subtle change in the meaning of being a skeptic. The original meaning is very close to agnostic but it has been slowly sliding into a

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Dec 2014, at 19:02, meekerdb wrote: On 12/8/2014 2:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Dec 2014, at 19:26, meekerdb wrote: On 12/7/2014 4:30 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: We are better for the survival, but we might be astonished for the quality of life, even of the poors. It is very hard

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 08 Dec 2014, at 19:29, meekerdb wrote: On 12/8/2014 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Dec 2014, at 04:55, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 6:16 AM, Samiya Illias samiyaill...@gmail.com wrote: As a person who takes the Quran literally, I'm not at all surprised as it is

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi John, On 08 Dec 2014, at 22:28, John Mikes wrote: Hi, Bruno, do you have a short (reasonbly WORDED???) explanation for what you call ENERGY? I asked this question from several physicists and did not get an answer I could even follow (not: understand, of course). Math summersaults do

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Alberto G. Corona
2014-12-07 13:30 GMT+01:00 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be: We are better for the survival, but we might be astonished for the quality of life, even of the poors. It is very hard to judge. We have much more depression and suicides, we have much more elderly people abandoned by their family. We

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Dec 2014, at 00:41, LizR wrote: On 8 December 2014 at 23:44, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 07 Dec 2014, at 22:17, LizR wrote: On 8 December 2014 at 01:30, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 06 Dec 2014, at 10:37, LizR wrote: That's a curious question. The ruins and

Fwd: Consciousness

2014-12-09 Thread Richard Ruquist
-- Forwarded message -- From: richard ruquist yann...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:26 AM Subject: Consciousness To: Swines swi...@yahoogroups.com, achristianvsatheistc...@yahoogroups.com achristianvsatheistc...@yahoogroups.com, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:22 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: At one time the human race was knowledgeable enough to construct the Antikythera Mechanism, but 200 years after it was made Jesus was born and started a major world religion, and 630 years after Jesus Mohamed was born and

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Telmo Menezes
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:30 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:22 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: At one time the human race was knowledgeable enough to construct the Antikythera Mechanism, but 200 years after it was made Jesus was born and

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 09 Dec 2014, at 16:30, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:22 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: At one time the human race was knowledgeable enough to construct the Antikythera Mechanism, but 200 years after it was made Jesus was born and started a major world

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 2:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Dec 2014, at 16:50, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 5:59 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: At one time the human race was knowledgeable enough to construct the Antikythera Mechanism,

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 3:09 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:49 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com mailto:lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2014 at 23:36, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com mailto:te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: You can notice the subtle change in the

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 3:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: My point was only that material and civil well being is what makes depression and suicide more common than grief and homicide by reducing the latter. I am not convinced there are more suicide only because people are less often killed. I think it is

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 3:34 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But once you believe in a reality other than your consciousness, you are a believer. Once you believe in anything, including arithmetic, you're a believer. I know physicists who think matter is just part of a theory we made up to explain

RE: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Telmo Menezes Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 3:09 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: real A.I. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:49 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 8

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread Alberto G. Corona
Telmo: as happens often, you have been cristal clear, only by rescuing some categories from the doxa of street talking. It is a pity that, for some other issues, the categories are so immerse in the mud of modernity babble that it is impossible to talk rationally. Some day we will progrees even to

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: we should not separate science from religion. We must separate shit from chocolate cake, otherwise you won't have chocolate cake, you'll just have shit. We can make hypothesis and reason about the nature of matter,

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 8:50 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 4:30 PM, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 5:22 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: At one time the

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 9:53 AM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote: *From:*everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Telmo Menezes *Sent:* Tuesday, December 09, 2014 3:09 AM *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: real A.I. On

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-09 Thread LizR
Sounds interesting. I wish I had an hour to watch it. I don't suppose there's a summary? :-) On 10 December 2014 at 03:36, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: richard ruquist yann...@yahoo.com Date: Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:26 AM Subject:

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-09 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List
Obviously, you find the UV claims, trustworthy, Richard? Specifically, the truth could be determined by getting data that has no other explanation, other than paranormal. I know there was not any hits with Sam Parnia's AWARE study. An hour long discussion of the scientific findings of the U

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread LizR
On 10 December 2014 at 06:29, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: You can't separate religion from authority. Religion is institutionalized Platonism. From prehistoric times every tribe had their shaman who explained the world and predicted things based on his visions and revelations

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread John Clark
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 , 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List Climate skepticism is more of a political phenomenon That depends on what you mean by climate skepticism. I'm nor skeptical that the world is warmer now than it was a century ago. And I'm not skeptical that human activity is

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread Jason Resch
On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:21 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Have you read The Genocides by Thomas M Disch? Super-intelligent entities trying to destroy us, but only in the same way we try to eradicate aphids from an orchard. That reminds me a of the excellent movie Fantastic Planet (La

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-09 Thread Richard Ruquist
Liz, His first slide summarizes to entire talk. The rest are examples and elaboration. Richard On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 6:03 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds interesting. I wish I had an hour to watch it. I don't suppose there's a summary? :-) On 10 December 2014 at 03:36, Richard

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-09 Thread Richard Ruquist
Well spuddy, I do not think they are lying. However, what aspect of his talk involves the paranormal? Richard On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 6:55 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List everything-list@googlegroups.com wrote: Obviously, you find the UV claims, trustworthy, Richard? Specifically, the truth

Re: Edge: Myth of A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread zibbsey
On Friday, December 5, 2014 4:31:27 AM UTC, cdemorsella wrote: *From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript: [mailto: everyth...@googlegroups.com javascript:] *On Behalf Of *LizR *Subject:* Re: Edge: Myth of A.I. On 3 December 2014 at 17:17, 'Chris de Morsella' via

Re: World's oldest computer may be older than previously thought

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 4:17 PM, LizR wrote: On 10 December 2014 at 06:29, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: You can't separate religion from authority. Religion is institutionalized Platonism. From prehistoric times every tribe had their shaman who explained the

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-09 Thread LizR
I've been looking for the first slide, but can't find it - can you give me the time when it appears? Actually I may have found it - not the first, but around 18 minutes in - it says: Consciousness without a brain * Deathbed recovery of lost consciousness * Complex consciousness with minimal

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread LizR
Yes I've seen FP, though not for a long time. I seem to remember it's a cartoon (a very good one!) On 10 December 2014 at 14:52, Jason Resch jasonre...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 3:21 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: Have you read The Genocides by Thomas M Disch?

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread Jason Resch
On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:32 AM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 12/9/2014 3:09 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 12:49 AM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 December 2014 at 23:36, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com wrote: You can notice the subtle change

RE: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 5:48 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: real A.I. On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 , 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List Climate

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 7:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: ... As I said, I haven't developed a strong opinion in regards to anthropogenic global warming, so I certainly wouldn't label myself a climate change denier though perhaps some would take the fact that my mind is not settled as sufficient reason to

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-09 Thread meekerdb
On 12/9/2014 3:03 PM, LizR wrote: Sounds interesting. I wish I had an hour to watch it. I don't suppose there's a summary? :-) On 10 December 2014 at 03:36, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com mailto:yann...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: *richard

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-09 Thread Richard Ruquist
I do not doubt that increased CO2 in the atm causes global warming and that nowadays much of it comes from burning fossil fuels. Yet my opinion of the Vostok ice core data is that when global temperatures got to their present levels, rapid global warming abruptly turned into less rapid global