Re: Big Bang belief

2012-02-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/2/2012 2:35 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/1/2012 11:03 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/2/2012 1:46 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/1/2012 9:46 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/2/2012 12:32 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/1/2012 8:34 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/1/2012 8:08 PM, meekerdb wrote: On

Re: Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp

2012-02-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Feb 2012, at 21:48, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/1/2012 3:06 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I don't get it. Many people have discussed this idea that Existence, in-itself, is primitive and neutral (has no properties or divisions). It is not original with me. For example,

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: Could you please give me an example of a physical property that is context dependent? Off the top of my head, mass, velocity, duration and length. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 01.02.2012 22:51 John Mikes said the following: Evgenii, I am not sure if it is your text, or Russell's: ***In general, I do not understand what does it mean that information at zero Kelvin is zero. Let us take a coin and cool it down. Do you mean that the text on the coin will disappear? Or

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 01.02.2012 21:51 Stephen P. King said the following: On 2/1/2012 3:10 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 29.01.2012 22:49 Russell Standish said the following: On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 04:23:12PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 28.01.2012 23:26 meekerdb said the following: On 1/27/2012 11:47 PM,

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2012 10:35 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes, but when we speak about information carrier (book, a hard drive, DVD, flash memory) it is exactly the same. And it has nothing to do with the total number of physical states in the device, as this example with zero temperature nicely shows.

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 02.02.2012 20:00 meekerdb said the following: On 2/2/2012 10:35 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: Yes, but when we speak about information carrier (book, a hard drive, DVD, flash memory) it is exactly the same. And it has nothing to do with the total number of physical states in the device, as this

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Jan 30, 6:54 pm, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 1/30/2012 3:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Jan 30, 6:08 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net  wrote: On 1/30/2012 2:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: So kind of you to inform us of your unsupported opinion. I was commenting on your

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-02 Thread meekerdb
On 2/2/2012 12:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Jan 30, 6:54 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 1/30/2012 3:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Jan 30, 6:08 pm, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.netwrote: On 1/30/2012 2:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: So kind of you to inform us of your

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP (was Superfluous Qualia Challenge For Comp)

2012-02-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/2/2012 1:07 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2012, at 21:48, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/1/2012 3:06 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I don't get it. Many people have discussed this idea that Existence, in-itself, is primitive and neutral (has no properties or divisions). It is not

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Jan 31, 1:33 pm, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: The Limbic system predates the Neocortex evolutionarily. As I've said on this list many times. There is no reason to think that emotion emerged after intelligence. And as I've said emotion is about 500 million years old but

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Jan 31, 3:25 pm, John Mikes jami...@gmail.com wrote: Craig and Brent: would you kindly disclose an opinion that can be deemed SUPPORTED All our 'support' (evidence, verification whatever) comes from mostly uninformed information fragments we receive by

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-02 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: My view is that the whole idea that there can be a 'functional equivalent of emotions' is completely unsupported. I give examples of puppets A puppet needs a puppeteer, a computer does not. movies, trashcans that say THANK YOU,

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Feb 02, 2012 at 07:45:53PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 01.02.2012 21:51 Stephen P. King said the following: On 2/1/2012 3:10 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: First the thermodynamic entropy is not context depended. This must mean that if it is the same as information, then the latter

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread Russell Standish
On Wed, Feb 01, 2012 at 09:17:41PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 29.01.2012 23:06 Russell Standish said the following: Absolutely! But at zero kelvin, the information storage capacity of the device is precisely zero, so cooling only works to a certain point. I believe that you have

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-02 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have any examples of an intelligent organism which evolved without emotion? Intelligence is not possible without emotion, but emotion is possible without intelligence. And I was surprised you asked me for a example of a

Re: for Craig

2012-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Jan 31, 5:24 pm, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com wrote: Craig - see below... On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 11:35 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: They are part of the same thing, although perpendicular (organization is material forms across volumetric space, experience

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-02 Thread Jason Resch
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 3:04 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi use...@rudnyi.ru wrote: On 21.01.2012 22:03 Evgenii Rudnyi said the following: On 21.01.2012 21:01 meekerdb said the following: On 1/21/2012 11:23 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: On 21.01.2012 20:00 meekerdb said the following: On 1/21/2012 4:25

Re: Qualia and mathematics

2012-02-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Jan 31, 1:25 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 30 Jan 2012, at 21:12, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Jan 30, 5:09 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 29 Jan 2012, at 03:20, Craig Weinberg wrote: How do you know that they 'occur' in the computations rather than in the