two types of structure creation- subjective and objective

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal I have to confess that I have been of two minds on the subject of creation of structure and life: a) creation of structure by an intelligent (meaning living) body or self (which requires subjectivity) b) the act of structure creation without a self (and hence is

Re: A test for solipsism

2012-10-18 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On 18/10/2012, at 4:12 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie A philosophical zombie or p-zombie in the philosophy of mind and perception is a hypothetical being that is indistinguishable from a normal human being except in that it

The Peirce-Leibniz triads Ver.1

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
The Peirce-Leibniz triads Ver.1 This will need some clearing up later, but I have to write down what I think I know in order to understand it. Help and comments are appreciated. It appears that Peirce's three categories match the Leibniz monadic structures as follows: I. = object = Leibniz

Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Russell Standish I apologize for using two different concepts of creation of structure from randomness. There are two types of creation of structure: by life, where there is an agent or self to create things, and by a computer program, where creation is mechanical. Self-organization is

Re: Re: A test for solipsism

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Stathis Papaioannou If a zombie really has a mind it could converse with you. If not, not. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content - From: Stathis Papaioannou Receiver:

Re: Re: Solipsism = 1p

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Bruno Marchal I think you can tell is 1p isn't just a shell by trying to converse with it. If it can converse, it's got a mind of its own. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 10/18/2012 Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen - Receiving the following content

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt

2012-10-18 Thread freqflyer07281972
Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this. Cheers, Dan -- You received this message

Re: Re: The objective world of autopoesis

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
TERREN: Hi Roger, Autopoeisis says there is a boundary between the environment and the system through which no information crosses (structural closure)... ROGER: OK, it is alive. TERREN: if we apply that model to our nervous system, we can say that the reality we experience is a

Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt

2012-10-18 Thread Richard Ruquist
Dan, I think the implication for MWI is that such weak measurements do not cause the universe to split into a different version for each possible quantum state. I also think that most of us are aware of these results. Richard On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972

Representation Of, Representation As

2012-10-18 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
I have started reading Scientific Representation by Bas C Van Fraasen and I have just finished the first chapter, Representation Of, Representation As. Here there is a discussion what we mean by representation in a normal language. The author defends that a representation is p. 21 Z uses X

Re: Re: The objective world of autopoesis

2012-10-18 Thread Terren Suydam
Hi Roger, A quale as I understand it is simply a unit of subjective experience. It's a bit of an abstraction since experience does not reduce to constituent units, but as a convention for talking about subjective experience, I suppose it is sometimes useful to be able to refer to a singular

Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-18 Thread John Clark
On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: You are the one that is saying everything happens for a reason or not for a reason. Yes. Which category do laws fall under? I haven't the slightest idea, but I do know that it's got to be one or the other. Yet you

Re: Representation Of, Representation As

2012-10-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 18, 2012 3:12:54 PM UTC-4, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I have started reading Scientific Representation by Bas C Van Fraasen and I have just finished the first chapter, Representation Of, Representation As. Here there is a discussion what we mean by representation in a

Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt

2012-10-18 Thread Jason Resch
This must be what the Heisenberg compensators do in star trek. :-) Jason On 10/18/12, Richard Ruquist yann...@gmail.com wrote: Dan, I think the implication for MWI is that such weak measurements do not cause the universe to split into a different version for each possible quantum state. I

Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt

2012-10-18 Thread Jesse Mazer
There was another article about this group's work back in September, at http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-uncertainty-not-all-in-the-measurement-1.11394-- it seems as though this is not really about contradicting the mathematical form of uncertainty in the equations of quantum mechanics, but

Re: I believe that comp's requirement is one of as if ratherthanis

2012-10-18 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Thursday, October 18, 2012 5:04:10 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: You are the one that is saying everything happens for a reason or not for a reason. Yes. Which category do laws fall under? I haven't the

Re: Re: Why self-organization programs cannot be alive

2012-10-18 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 01:56:14PM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Russell Standish I apologize for using two different concepts of creation of structure from randomness. Its good to clarify these thoughts. Great! There are two types of creation of structure: by life, where there is an

Re: Re: A test for solipsism

2012-10-18 Thread Russell Standish
On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 01:58:29PM -0400, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Stathis Papaioannou If a zombie really has a mind it could converse with you. If not, not. If true, then you have demonstrated the non-existence of zombies (zombies, by definition, are indistinguishable from real people).

The Peirce-Leibniz triads Ver. 2

2012-10-18 Thread Roger Clough
Hi Craig Thanks very much for your comments Craig. I still need to digest them. Meanwhile, a flood of new ideas came to me and I just want to set them down. There are no doubt mistakes, esp. with regard to subjective/objective. The Peirce-Leibniz triads Ver.2 I Firstness object

RE: A test for solipsism

2012-10-18 Thread William R. Buckley
Just because the individual holds the position that he/she is the only living entity in all the universe does not imply that such a person (the solipsist) is incapable of carrying on a conversation, even if that conversation is with an illusion. For instance, I have no logical reason to

Re: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Doubt

2012-10-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 10/18/2012 2:16 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Is anyone here aware of the following? http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/66654-heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-in-doubt Does it have implications for MW interpretations of quantum physics? I'd love to see comments about this.