On Saturday, February 8, 2014 7:26:45 AM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 6:06:17 AM UTC, Brent wrote:
On 2/7/2014 9:50 PM, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
But the question then remains the same, and the process of dealing with
it doesn't change in principle either.
I think Edgar's basic idea is that there is a plane of simultaneity which
sweeps through space-time, and that all events in space time intersect with
it - for example an astronaut moving at 0.9c will be intersecting it at the
same time as his twin on Earth, but intersecting it at an angle that
On 07 Feb 2014, at 19:03, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
Computation is 3p, and consciousness is 1p, and no 1p thing can be
a 3p thing.
Sure it can. There is no consistent definition of p
?
What is inconsistent with the
On 07 Feb 2014, at 17:59, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:52:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Feb 2014, at 19:50, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Yes. But it is not a back and forth. It just happen that when
machine looks inward, and
On 07 Feb 2014, at 20:17, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 12:33:07 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Feb 2014, at 20:54, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2014 11:22:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 05 Feb 2014, at 20:29, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On 08 Feb 2014, at 01:40, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 7:33:28 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
On 8 February 2014 07:48, Bruno Marchal mar...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 06 Feb 2014, at 21:43, LizR wrote:
Because Turing universality is a mathematical notion.
It has nothing to do with
On 07 Feb 2014, at 21:05, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Jesse,
I'm willing to accept the notion that time, like everything else is
quantized at the finest scale, but even so I would maintain that
everything is at one and only one point in time as the current state
is continually recomputed into
On 07 Feb 2014, at 23:21, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/7/2014 10:40 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Feb 2014, at 21:29, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/6/2014 12:14 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
In Kripke semantic all statements are relativized to the world
you are in. []A can be true in some world and false in
On 07 Feb 2014, at 21:36, Chris de Morsella wrote:
From: Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: Eidetic memory and the comp hypothesis
Thanks for the link Chris.
It has also been discovered, some years ago,
Seconds (1966) is also worth a look.
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On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:31:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 07 Feb 2014, at 17:59, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:52:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Feb 2014, at 19:50, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/6/2014 8:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Yes. But
Ghibbsa, Brent, Russell, Jesse,
What Ghibbsa and others are trying to do here is establish a notion of a
universal CLOCK time, and there are several approaches to doing this. The
best way we would do this is to take an observer in deep space with no
gravitational field or acceleration and
Russell,
Yes, that's correct. I'm just saying my theory predicts Omega MUST be 1
and the universe a positively curved hypersphere.
1. Because that's the only cosmological geometry consistent with p-time.
2. Because an Omega 1 results in a universe either infinite or with edges,
neither of
Liz,
No, that's not my idea. See my proximate reply to Ghibbsa.
Edgar
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:15:42 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
I think Edgar's basic idea is that there is a plane of simultaneity which
sweeps through space-time, and that all events in space time intersect with
it -
Liz,
No 5D embedding space. The rate of expansion is just the intrinsic
processor cycle 'rate'. The only real measure of that is how it manifests
in the computations it produces because only they have any measure because
only they have dimensionality. Again whenever we try to measure p-timel
Liz,
For the first part of my answer to the question of in what sense might
space be absolute see my new topic post on 'Newton's Bucket and Mach's
Principle'..
Edgar
On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:57:32 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
On 8 February 2014 15:45, ghi...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_Mathematics_Comes_From
Lakoff and Núñez's avowed purpose is to begin laying the foundations for a
truly scientific understanding of mathematics, one grounded in processes
common to all human cognition. They find that four distinct but related
processes
Brent, and Liz,
We have to be careful in our choice of words here.
It is quite clear that e.g. during relative motion of frames A and B, that
each sees the other's clock running slower. So the two frames DO NOT give
the same results here.
However when one twin returns with a different clock
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 12:52 AM, ghib...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:36:21 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 4:50:39 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:09:23 PM UTC, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
wrote:
On Thu, Feb
Jesse,
No, they do NOT have the same time coordinates in their respective frames
because their clocks read different t-values. You simply cannot invent any
frame that makes the actual difference in their ages go away. All you are
doing is trying to ignore the effect by assigning a new
Jesse,
When I say 'everything happens in the same present moment'.
1. By everything I mean everything that actually happens, not everything
you can imagine happening like Jesus not being crucified or Hitler winning
WW2. I would think that would be obvious.
2. Everything in the history of the
The invention of language was obviously of great benefit to the species
called Homo sapiens, but like all tools it is not perfect and sometimes the
brain can waste a great deal of processing power spinning its wheels over
questions of words rather than ideas. For example, a recent poll showed
that
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 3:23 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
here is no consistent definition of p
?
!
What is inconsistent with the definition of 3p and 1p
Just as there is no absolute meaning to the word motion there is no
consistent meaning to the 1p or the 3p. Your 3p
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 8:01 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Suicide Words God and Ideas
The invention of language was obviously of great benefit to the
John, and Chris,
The problem is that language evolved to describe and make sense of daily
life, what I call 'the logic of things'. Thus it is not really designed to
properly describe many of the deeper more fundamental aspects of reality.
Trying to do that often leads to wrong or misleading
Edgar, it's very frustrating trying to have a discussion with you when I
repeatedly ask you questions that are meant to clarify things that seem
unclear to me in your arguments, and you just completely ignore these
questions and just give me a broad restatement of your overall views, which
for me
On 08 Feb 2014, at 17:53, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 3:23 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be
wrote:
here is no consistent definition of p
?
!
What is inconsistent with the definition of 3p and 1p
Just as there is no absolute meaning to the word motion there is
no
Jesse,
Yes, I think there is always a way to determine if any two events happen at
the same point in p-time or not, provided you know everything about their
relativistic conditions.
You do this by essentially computing their relativistic cases BACKWARDS to
determine which point in each of
On 8 February 2014 08:43, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 07 Feb 2014, at 02:29, LizR wrote:
On 7 February 2014 09:14, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
On 06 Feb 2014, at 07:39, LizR wrote:
On 6 February 2014 08:25, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Which among
Jesse,
Yes, of course there is an objective truth that events such as you mention
happen at the clock times they did according to clocks on earth. How could
we think otherwise?
As for how to determine whether past events happen at the same p-times see
my just previous post in response to your
On 2/8/2014 12:15 AM, LizR wrote:
I think Edgar's basic idea is that there is a plane of simultaneity which sweeps through
space-time, and that all events in space time intersect with it - for example an
astronaut moving at 0.9c will be intersecting it at the same time as his twin on Earth,
On 2/8/2014 12:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
An epiphenomenalist would say that consciousness is just a necessary side effect of
intelligence. But I don't follow this: it is a phenomena having some role, I would say,
and so evolution is just not a problem.
To say it has some role implies that
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Jesse,
Yes, I think there is always a way to determine if any two events happen
at the same point in p-time or not, provided you know everything about
their relativistic conditions.
You do this by essentially computing
On 9 February 2014 11:28, Jesse Mazer laserma...@gmail.com wrote:
HOW would you back calculate it though? Even if we set aside my
questions about gravity above and just look at a case involving flat SR
spacetime, your answer gives no details. If you have any procedure in mind,
could you apply
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Jesse,
No, they do NOT have the same time coordinates in their respective frames
because their clocks read different t-values.
In the post you're responding to here I had another request for
clarification which you
Jesse,
The ages are the only 'real' clocks here because they are not arbitrary but
real and actual and cannot be reset. They show different clock times in the
same present moment. All other clocks are arbitrary.
I don't know what else I can add to this. I did address all of your
questions
Jesse,
I gave you a clear easy to follow and understand procedure that I believe
works in every case to determine if any two clock time labeled events
occurred in the same p-time moment or not.
I'm sorry if you don't see how it works. I don't see how I can make it much
clearer. It's just
Jesse,
A simple example:
Suppose A and B. Assume no relative motion but A is in a gravitational well
that makes his clock runs 1/2 the speed of B's clock. Assume both clocks
were synchronized when the gravitational field at A suddenly turned on. In
this simple case both A and B were in the
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Jesse,
I gave you a clear easy to follow and understand procedure that I believe
works in every case to determine if any two clock time labeled events
occurred in the same p-time moment or not.
No you didn't, because
I've been following this thread with some interest, waiting for one movie
to be invariably mentioned among this crowd, and surprised that it hasn't
been yet: Waking Life by Richard Linklater.
Not only would members of this list like this movie, they would also be
reminded of the different
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 2:57:44 PM UTC, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Liz,
No, that's not my idea. See my proximate reply to Ghibbsa.
Edgar
I wusn't messin' with your idea man promise! I was just ranting away full
of good intentions but basically a bit sick in the head.
On Saturday,
Not sure if that's a recommendation or just a chance to let off steam but
anyway - thanks, I will try to get hold of that.
On 9 February 2014 13:34, freqflyer07281972 thismindisbud...@gmail.comwrote:
I've been following this thread with some interest, waiting for one movie
to be invariably
On 9 February 2014 04:18, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Liz,
No 5D embedding space. The rate of expansion is just the intrinsic
processor cycle 'rate'.
What is this 'rate' ? Is it like 'time' ?
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Jesse,
Consider another simple example:
A and B in deep space. No gravity. Their clocks, t and t', are
synchronized. They are in the same current p-time moment and whenever t =
t', which is always their clock times confirm they are the same current
p-time as well as the same clock time.
Now
Liz,
See my other post that discusses the minimum p-time cycle time must be less
than the minimum possible interval of events, where I discuss that...
Edgar
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 7:49:03 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote:
On 9 February 2014 04:18, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:wrote:
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:41:14 PM UTC, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote:
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 12:52 AM, ghi...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 6:36:21 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 7, 2014 4:50:39 PM UTC, ghi...@gmail.com wrote:
On 7 February 2014 07:47, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote:
Well, I *could* be a zombie and still say that, unless you consider
the idea of zombies contradictory (which maybe it is).
I bet you are not a zombie. But you seem to illustrate my point, if
epiphenomenalism is true, despite
On 8 February 2014 05:03, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
If there were identical triplets, and one of them grew up on the other side
of the world and spoke a different language, while the others grew up in the
same state and spoke the same language, do you think that a
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 3:36:08 PM UTC, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Brent, and Liz,
We have to be careful in our choice of words here.
It is quite clear that e.g. during relative motion of frames A and B, that
each sees the other's clock running slower. So the two frames DO NOT give
the
RELATIVITY THEORY
I love it...I'm being reeled in by it. A lot of people here have said
really weird and wonderful things. A couple of things have been talked
about as if fundamental, that I'm betting is not fundamental. A lot of
other questions have been coming up for melike is
On Sat, Feb 08, 2014 at 07:18:06AM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Liz,
No 5D embedding space. The rate of expansion is just the intrinsic
processor cycle 'rate'. The only real measure of that is how it manifests
in the computations it produces because only they have any measure because
only
On 9 February 2014 14:10, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Liz,
See my other post that discusses the minimum p-time cycle time must be
less than the minimum possible interval of events, where I discuss that...
So I assume that's a yes, then.
Edgar
On Saturday, February 8, 2014
On Saturday, February 8, 2014 8:47:26 PM UTC-5, stathisp wrote:
On 7 February 2014 07:47, Bruno Marchal mar...@ulb.ac.be javascript:
wrote:
Well, I *could* be a zombie and still say that, unless you consider
the idea of zombies contradictory (which maybe it is).
I bet you are
On Sunday, February 9, 2014 3:44:09 AM UTC, Russell Standish wrote:
On Sat, Feb 08, 2014 at 07:18:06AM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Liz,
No 5D embedding space. The rate of expansion is just the intrinsic
processor cycle 'rate'. The only real measure of that is how it
manifests
On 9 February 2014 04:36, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Brent, and Liz,
We have to be careful in our choice of words here.
It is quite clear that e.g. during relative motion of frames A and B, that
each sees the other's clock running slower. So the two frames DO NOT give
the same
Heh heh. Have you ever read The Hole In The Zero by M K Joseph?
On 9 February 2014 17:17, ghib...@gmail.com wrote:
It can't be understood intellectually. I turn to art. Paint the frontiers,
string theory knackers yards. brains and their higher consciousness. The
world that has everything
On 9 February 2014 14:31, ghib...@gmail.com wrote:
Nothing phazes Edgar lol.
Edgar is like our very own Saga Norén.
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How do you know that you are really reading these words?
People misread things all the time. Maybe it just feels like you are
reading them? You could be having a brain aneurism. Logically, there is no
way to prove that you are reading these words right now.
The fact that you might not really
On Sunday, February 9, 2014 4:21:32 AM UTC, Liz R wrote:
On 9 February 2014 14:31, ghi...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
Nothing phazes Edgar lol.
Edgar is like our very own Saga Norén.
I was getting these spasms of hilarity earlier on. Not very funny thoughts
by normal standards. I
The hole in zero is like the closed circular string which in two dimensions
maps
everything outside of it to its interior with a r-1/r mapping in every
direction.
If so then infinity is mapped to the center of the zero, like 1/0=infinity.
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 11:19 PM, LizR lizj...@gmail.com
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Edgar L. Owen edgaro...@att.net wrote:
Jesse,
Consider another simple example:
A and B in deep space. No gravity. Their clocks, t and t', are
synchronized. They are in the same current p-time moment and whenever t =
t', which is always their clock times
Something like this?
[image: Inline images 1]
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