Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 04.02.2012 21:05 meekerdb said the following: On 2/4/2012 9:09 AM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: ... As for computers having emotions, I am a practitioner and I am working right now closely with engineers. I should say that the modern market would love electronics with emotions. Just imagine

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP

2012-02-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 04 Feb 2012, at 21:11, meekerdb wrote: On 2/4/2012 10:53 AM, acw wrote: One can wonder what is the most general theory that we can postulate to explain our existence. Tegmark postulates all of consistent mathematics, whatever that is, but is 'all of consistent mathematics'

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
Bruno, I would agree that profit should be a tool. On the other hand it is working this way. There are rules of a game that are adjusted by the government accordingly and then what is not not forbidden is allowed. In such a setup, if a new idea allows us to increase profit, then it might be

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP

2012-02-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Feb 5, 2:09 am, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Stephen is objecting that such abstract systems are, well, too abstract. He'd prefer something more concrete - whatever concrete might actually be. Here is another way to look at that sentence: Stephen is objecting that such

Re: Consciousness Easy, Zombies Hard

2012-02-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Feb 2, 2:48 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Feb 2012, at 00:25, Craig Weinberg wrote: I just don't see how beliefs can be primitive. They are not. You can define M believes p in arithmetic. (Bp) You cannot define M knows p, but you can still simulate it in arithmetic by

Entropy: A Guide for the Perplexed

2012-02-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 24.01.2012 22:56 meekerdb said the following: In thinking about how to answer this I came across an excellent paper by Roman Frigg and Charlotte Werndl http://www.romanfrigg.org/writings/EntropyGuide.pdf which explicates the relation more comprehensively than I could and which also gives

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP

2012-02-05 Thread Bruno Marchal
I hope Russell will indulge my comment on that first paragraph. On 05 Feb 2012, at 15:41, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Feb 5, 2:09 am, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Stephen is objecting that such abstract systems are, well, too abstract. He'd prefer something more concrete -

Re: Entropy: A Guide for the Perplexed

2012-02-05 Thread Evgenii Rudnyi
On 05.02.2012 17:16 Evgenii Rudnyi said the following: On 24.01.2012 22:56 meekerdb said the following: In thinking about how to answer this I came across an excellent paper by Roman Frigg and Charlotte Werndl http://www.romanfrigg.org/writings/EntropyGuide.pdf which explicates the relation

Re: Intelligence and consciousness

2012-02-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Feb 5, 11:55 am, John Clark johnkcl...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: You don't understand Searle's thought experiment. I understand it one hell of a lot better than Searle did, but that's not really much of a boast. The whole point

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP

2012-02-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Feb 5, 11:19 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: I hope Russell will indulge my comment on that first paragraph. On 05 Feb 2012, at 15:41, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Feb 5, 2:09 am, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.au wrote: Stephen is objecting that such abstract systems are,

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP

2012-02-05 Thread meekerdb
On 2/5/2012 8:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: No. All universal numbers can interpret a number as a function on quantities, or as properties on quantities, which are not quantities themselves. Universal numbers can also transform, or interpret numbers as transformation of transformation, properties

Re: Entropy: A Guide for the Perplexed

2012-02-05 Thread Russell Standish
On Sun, Feb 05, 2012 at 07:28:47PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: The most funny it looks in the conclusion p. 28(142) First, all notions of entropy discussed in this essay, except the thermodynamic and the topological entropy, can be understood as variants of some information-theoretic notion

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-05 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 08:56:10PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: First, we have not to forget the Third Law that states that the change in entropy in any reaction, as well its derivatives, goes to zero as the temperatures goes to zero Kelvin. In this respect your question is actually nice,

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP

2012-02-05 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/5/2012 2:09 AM, Russell Standish wrote: On Sat, Feb 04, 2012 at 01:22:10PM +0100, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Feb 2012, at 23:24, Stephen P. King wrote: I am not missing a thing, Bruno. You are missing something that is obvious to the rest of us. If someone else can confirm this, and

Re: Information: a basic physical quantity or rather emergence/supervenience phenomenon

2012-02-05 Thread Russell Standish
On Fri, Feb 03, 2012 at 08:50:40PM +0100, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote: I guess that you have never done a lab in experimental thermodynamics. There are classical experiment where people measure heat of combustion, heat capacity, equilibrium pressure, equilibrium constants and then determine the

Re: Consciousness Easy, Zombies Hard

2012-02-05 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Feb 5, 1:23 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 05 Feb 2012, at 17:14, Craig Weinberg wrote: I just don't see how beliefs can be primitive. They are not. You can define M believes p in arithmetic. (Bp) You cannot define M knows p, but you can still simulate it in arithmetic

Re: Ontological Problems of COMP

2012-02-05 Thread Stephen P. King
Hi ACW, On 2/4/2012 1:53 PM, acw wrote: One can wonder what is the most general theory that we can postulate to explain our existence. Tegmark postulates all of consistent mathematics, whatever that is, but is 'all of consistent mathematics' consistent in itself? I have read several