Re: COMP test (ontology of COMP)

2012-03-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2012, at 19:39, acw wrote: On 3/1/2012 18:16, meekerdb wrote: But the 1p view of this is to be conscious *of something*, which you describe as the computation seen from the inside. What is it about these threads through different states that makes them an equivalence class with

Re: COMP test (ontology of COMP)

2012-03-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2012, at 19:43, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2012, at 17:54, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2012 1:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Feb 2012, at 21:05, meekerdb wrote: On 2/29/2012 10:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Comp says the exact

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 01 Mar 2012, at 22:32, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Mar 1, 7:34 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 29 Feb 2012, at 23:29, Craig Weinberg wrote: There is no such thing as evidence when it comes to qualitative phenomenology. You don't need evidence to infer that a clock doesn't

Re: The Relativity of Existence

2012-03-02 Thread meekerdb
On 3/1/2012 7:37 PM, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 7:14 PM, meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net wrote: On 3/1/2012 9:27 AM, Bob Zannelli wrote: The Relativity of Existence Authors: Stuart Heinrich

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Mar 1, 8:12 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: You do assume, though, that brain function can't be replicated by a machine. No, I presume that consciousness is not limited to what we consider to be brain function. Brain function, as we understand it now, is already a

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Mar 2, 4:43 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Mar 2012, at 22:32, Craig Weinberg wrote: There is no such thing as evidence when it comes to qualitative phenomenology. You don't need evidence to infer that a clock doesn't know what time it is. A clock has no

Re: COMP test (ontology of COMP)

2012-03-02 Thread meekerdb
On 3/2/2012 1:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2012, at 19:43, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2012, at 17:54, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2012 1:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Feb 2012, at 21:05, meekerdb wrote: On 2/29/2012 10:59 AM, Bruno

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Mar 2012, at 18:03, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Mar 2, 4:43 am, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 01 Mar 2012, at 22:32, Craig Weinberg wrote: There is no such thing as evidence when it comes to qualitative phenomenology. You don't need evidence to infer that a clock doesn't know

Re: COMP test (ontology of COMP)

2012-03-02 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 02 Mar 2012, at 19:17, meekerdb wrote: On 3/2/2012 1:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2012, at 19:43, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2012 10:23 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2012, at 17:54, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2012 1:01 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Feb 2012, at 21:05,

Re: COMP theology

2012-03-02 Thread John Clark
On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: The question is If I throw a coin, what is the probability that I see it becoming a flying pig. In front of the UD, that question is not trivial. In this thought experiment the meaning of the word I is not obvious and in fact the

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Mar 2, 2:49 pm, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On 02 Mar 2012, at 18:03, Craig Weinberg wrote: There is no such thing as evidence when it comes to qualitative phenomenology. You don't need evidence to infer that a clock doesn't know what time it is. A clock has no

Re: Entropy and information

2012-03-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/28/2012 8:20 PM, Alberto G.Corona wrote: Dear Stephen, A thing that I often ask myself concerning MMH is the question about what is mathematical and what is not?. The set of real numbers is a mathematical structure, but also the set of real numbers plus the point (1,1) in the plane is.

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 1, 8:12 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: You do assume, though, that brain function can't be replicated by a machine. No, I presume that consciousness is not limited to what we consider to

Re: COMP test (ontology of COMP)

2012-03-02 Thread Joseph Knight
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 3:03 AM, Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be wrote: Let me ask a question to everybody. Consider the WM duplication, starting from Helsinki, but this time, in W, you are reconstituted in two exemplars, in exactly the same environment. Is the probability, asked in Helsinki,

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Mar 2, 7:46 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 1, 8:12 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: You do assume, though, that brain function can't be replicated by a machine. No,

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Terren Suydam
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 2, 7:46 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: On Mar 1, 8:12 pm, Stathis Papaioannou stath...@gmail.com wrote: You do

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Craig Weinberg
On Mar 2, 9:41 pm, Terren Suydam terren.suy...@gmail.com wrote: Or, maybe it's ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger Or this... http://www.alternet.org/health/154225/would_we_have_drugged_up_einstein_how_anti-authoritarianism_is_deemed_a_mental_health_problem -- You received this

Re: COMP test (ontology of COMP)

2012-03-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/29/2012 9:54 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Feb 2012, at 13:50, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2012 5:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/2/28 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net On 2/28/2012 10:43 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: Comp substitute

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Stephen P. King
On 3/2/2012 10:17 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Mar 2, 9:41 pm, Terren Suydamterren.suy...@gmail.com wrote: Or, maybe it's ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger Or this...

Re: Yes Doctor circularity

2012-03-02 Thread Stathis Papaioannou
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.com wrote: I understand your argument from the very beginning. I debate people about it all week long with the same view exactly. It's by far the most popular position I have encountered online. It is the conventional wisdom