Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread meekerdb 

On 12/12/2014 9:35 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:23 PM, meekerdb > wrote:


> Nobody bothered to explain that it might have been volcanoes or asteroid 
strikes
as well as oribtal variations and they did that because it's completely 
irrelevant
to current global warming.  We know that CO2 has increased from 300ppm to 
450ppm and
that we put about twice that amount into the atmosphere.


But nobody has a solution for excess CO2 that won't kill far far more people than 
climate warming ever will, or at least environmentalists don't.


Donald McKay, withouthotair.com, has spelled out exactly what it will take and it doesn't 
kill anybody and it doesn't cost anymore than a small war.  In fact everybody knows what 
the solutions are, it doesn't take some future discovery.  It just takes the will to 
demote fossil fuel to few specialized applications.


Environmentalists don't have solutions for anything because environmentalists are silly 
irrational people who mix ridiculous pessimism (global warming will kill us all) with 
ridiculous optimism (windmills will save us all) and who believe it's a virtue to think 
with your gut and not with your brain.


And deniers are luddite morons who think we can fix global warming on short notice when it 
gets a lot worse but we can't screw it up in the meantime.




> So how the Earth warmed or cooled in the distant past is just your 
attempt at
diversion.


It's a diversion from the fantasy that the Earth's climate has always been the same and 
there is one true temperature that everything should be at.


Which is another bullshit attempt at diversion.  It's completely irrelevant to whether a 
4degC global temperature increase over 50yrs will cause extensive suffering, death and 
economic damage.  And note that 4degC increase is the projected worldwide average increase 
as of 2100.  The oceans tend to lag, so that corresponds to a 5 or 6degC increase over the 
continents.  And it doesn't mean the temperature increase goes to +4degC and then stops.  
Under your do-nothing scenario it will still be rapidly increasing as it crosses through 
+4degC in 2100.


Brent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread John Clark 
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 5:23 PM, meekerdb  wrote:

> Nobody bothered to explain that it might have been volcanoes or asteroid
> strikes as well as oribtal variations and they did that because it's
> completely irrelevant to current global warming.  We know that CO2 has
> increased from 300ppm to 450ppm and that we put about twice that amount
> into the atmosphere.
>

But nobody has a solution for excess CO2 that won't kill far far more
people than climate warming ever will, or at least environmentalists
don't.  Environmentalists don't have solutions for anything because
environmentalists are silly irrational people who mix ridiculous pessimism
(global warming will kill us all) with ridiculous optimism (windmills will
save us all) and who believe it's a virtue to think with your gut and not
with your brain.

> So how the Earth warmed or cooled in the distant past is just your
> attempt at diversion.
>

It's a diversion from the fantasy that the Earth's climate has always been
the same and there is one true temperature that everything should be at.

  John K Clark

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread zibblequibble 


On Friday, December 12, 2014 10:05:14 PM UTC, Alberto G.Corona wrote:
>
> This paraphrasis of the famous quote from Santayana is the best quote that 
> I have read in years:
>
> http://tldr.es/32l
>

this was good: 

 Dijkstra: Simplicity is a great virtue but it requires hard work to
 achieve it and education to appreciate it. And to make matters
 worse: complexity sells better.

FWIW. you continue to see, because you care; you're Good. you're 
distressed. try to step back,. Let it wash over you. Step away.
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List 


  From: Alberto G. Corona 
 To: everything-list  
 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:02 PM
 Subject: Re: real A.I.
   
Chris: don't think so fast.   They pay me in gasoline for my car. And use to 
drive smoking a cigarrette, just for the plasure of endangering the holy planet.

And for that pittance you produce such copious volumes of hot air?

2014-12-12 23:45 GMT+01:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List 
:


ALberto -- Hate to burst your bubble, but Exxon can find better spinmeisters 
than you will ever be. Why would they throw good money away hiring you to do 
their spin?-Chris
  From: Alberto G. Corona 
 To: everything-list  
 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 2:08 PM
 Subject: Re: real A.I.
   
Meekerdb

Of course, because, as you said some threads ago, I´m payed by Exxon to stop 
you saving the planet. Don´t you remember?

2014-12-12 22:47 GMT+01:00 meekerdb :
  On 12/12/2014 12:02 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
  
  Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black helicopters 
are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and fear, let me give 
you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the paranoia squirming around 
inside your mind. 
  Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses 
with. 
  Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
   
|     |
|     ||     |     |     |     |     |
|   Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction? A stream of gamma rays aimed at 
Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440 million years ago, according to a new 
paper that says a similar celestial catastrophe could...|
| 
  |
|  View on news.nationalgeograph...  |  Preview by Yahoo  |
| 
  |
|     |

   
   
 
 Mass extinction...Alberto would be all for that.  He'd just be against doing 
anything to stop it.  Anybody who'd propose that is a pinko atheist commy set 
on world domination.
 
 Brent
 -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





-- 
Alberto.-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
Alberto.-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread LizR 
On 13 December 2014 at 10:42, Alberto G. Corona  wrote:
>
> The permo-triassic extinction was caused by vulcanism (a superplume) in
> Siberia. That is the most accepted hypothesis.
>
> Yeah I know (Wikipedia said so, after all) but just suppose it's really
"The Poison Belt" ???

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread LizR 
I remember that video. Some spoilsport said those ladies couldn't really
play their guitars.

On 13 December 2014 at 10:49,  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Friday, December 12, 2014 5:37:01 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:
>>
>> >> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year
 Milankovitch cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's
 ever been 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two
 billion years 360 million years ago.

>>>
>>> > you asked this in previous climate row thread months back. I actually
>>> answered at the time and it was a pretty answer
>>>
>>
>> Your answer would have been even prettier if it actually existed. I just
>> did a search on that old thread and neither you nor anybody else explained
>> how the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle made the Earth
>> colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago and made the Earth hotter
>> than any time in the last two billion years 360 million years ago.
>>
>>   John K Clark
>>
>
> I had a different nick I should think. I was off the meds, went all 80's
> retro. I think I was Robert Palmer or one of the models
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcATvu5f9vE
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread LizR 
Glad you like it. It certainly seems extremely appropriate when there is an
obesity epidemic, and the most watched TV programmes are things like
"Dancing with the stars" and "Celebrity Big Brother".

Mind you if Wikipedia is right, "bread and circuses" was originated by the
Romans - Juvenal to be exact.

… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have
abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out
military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains
itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: *bread and circuses*[6]


[...] *iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam
qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet
atque duas tantum res anxius optat, /* *panem et circenses*. [...]
 (Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Unless you meant "plus ca change" - but I think you'll find that there is
an expression in most languages along the lines of "the more things change,
the more they stay the same" - see for example
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/plus_%C3%A7a_change,_plus_c%27est_la_m%C3%AAme_chose

I imagine people were saying this when they invented a new way of chipping
flints.

On 13 December 2014 at 11:04, Alberto G. Corona  wrote:

> This paraphrasis of the famous quote from Santayana is the best quote that
> I have read in years:
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
Chris: don't think so fast.   They pay me in gasoline for my car. And use
to drive smoking a cigarrette, just for the plasure of endangering the holy
planet.

2014-12-12 23:45 GMT+01:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com>:
>
> ALberto -- Hate to burst your bubble, but Exxon can find better
> spinmeisters than you will ever be. Why would they throw good money away
> hiring you to do their spin?
> -Chris
>
>   --
>  *From:* Alberto G. Corona 
> *To:* everything-list 
> *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2014 2:08 PM
> *Subject:* Re: real A.I.
>
> Meekerdb
>
> Of course, because, as you said some threads ago, I´m payed by Exxon to
> stop you saving the planet. Don´t you remember?
>
> 2014-12-12 22:47 GMT+01:00 meekerdb :
>
>  On 12/12/2014 12:02 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
>
>  Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black
> helicopters are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and
> fear, let me give you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the
> paranoia squirming around inside your mind.
>
>  Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses
> with.
>
>  Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
> 
>
>
>  [image: image]
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
> 
> A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440
> million years ago, according to a new paper that says a similar celestial
> catastrophe could...
>
>  View on news.nationalgeograph...
> 
>  Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
> Mass extinction...Alberto would be all for that.  He'd just be against
> doing anything to stop it.  Anybody who'd propose that is a pinko atheist
> commy set on world domination.
>
> Brent
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alberto.
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>   --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
Alberto.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List 
ALberto -- Hate to burst your bubble, but Exxon can find better spinmeisters 
than you will ever be. Why would they throw good money away hiring you to do 
their spin?-Chris
  From: Alberto G. Corona 
 To: everything-list  
 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 2:08 PM
 Subject: Re: real A.I.
   
Meekerdb

Of course, because, as you said some threads ago, I´m payed by Exxon to stop 
you saving the planet. Don´t you remember?

2014-12-12 22:47 GMT+01:00 meekerdb :
  On 12/12/2014 12:02 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
  
  Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black helicopters 
are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and fear, let me give 
you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the paranoia squirming around 
inside your mind. 
  Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses 
with. 
  Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
   
|     |
|     ||     |     |     |     |     |
|   Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction? A stream of gamma rays aimed at 
Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440 million years ago, according to a new 
paper that says a similar celestial catastrophe could...|
| 
  |
|  View on news.nationalgeograph...  |  Preview by Yahoo  |
| 
  |
|     |

   
   
 
 Mass extinction...Alberto would be all for that.  He'd just be against doing 
anything to stop it.  Anybody who'd propose that is a pinko atheist commy set 
on world domination.
 
 Brent
 -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.





-- 
Alberto.-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread meekerdb 

On 12/12/2014 2:13 PM, zibblequib...@gmail.com wrote:



On Friday, December 12, 2014 5:37:01 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM, > wrote:

>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year 
Milankovitch cycle can explain why the
Earth was colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago and 
hotter than
any time in the last two billion years 360 million years ago.


> you asked this in previous climate row thread months back. I actually 
answered
at the time and it was a pretty answer


Your answer would have been even prettier if it actually existed. I just 
did a
search on that old thread and neither you nor anybody else explained how 
the21,000
or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle made the Earthcolder than it's 
ever been
450 million years ago and made the Earth hotter than any time in the last 
two
billion years 360 million years ago.



Nobody bothered to explain that it might have been volcanoes or asteroid strikes as well 
as oribtal variations and they did that because it's completely irrelevant to current 
global warming.  We know that CO2 has increased from 300ppm to 450ppm and that we put 
about twice that amount into the atmosphere.  And we know how CO2 acts as a greenhouse 
gas.  So how the Earth warmed or cooled in the distant past is just your attempt at diversion.


Brent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread zibblequibble 


On Friday, December 12, 2014 5:37:01 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM, > 
> wrote:
>
> >> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year 
>>> Milankovitch cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever 
>>> been 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion 
>>> years 360 million years ago.
>>>
>>
>> > you asked this in previous climate row thread months back. I actually 
>> answered at the time and it was a pretty answer
>>
>
> Your answer would have been even prettier if it actually existed. I just 
> did a search on that old thread and neither you nor anybody else explained 
> how the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle made the Earth 
> colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago and made the Earth hotter 
> than any time in the last two billion years 360 million years ago.
>
>   John K Clark
>

It definitely happened dear fruitI was ghibbsa I should think. If you 
tell me the name of the thread I'll go look.Or if you are happy do that 
bit,  I'll do the washing up

>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
Meekerdb

Of course, because, as you said some threads ago, I´m payed by Exxon to
stop you saving the planet. Don´t you remember?

2014-12-12 22:47 GMT+01:00 meekerdb :
>
>  On 12/12/2014 12:02 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
>
>  Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black
> helicopters are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and
> fear, let me give you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the
> paranoia squirming around inside your mind.
>
>  Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses
> with.
>
>  Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
> 
>
>
>  [image: image]
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
> 
> A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440
> million years ago, according to a new paper that says a similar celestial
> catastrophe could...
>
>   View on news.nationalgeograph...
> 
>  Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
> Mass extinction...Alberto would be all for that.  He'd just be against
> doing anything to stop it.  Anybody who'd propose that is a pinko atheist
> commy set on world domination.
>
> Brent
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
Alberto.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
This paraphrasis of the famous quote from Santayana is the best quote that
I have read in years:

http://tldr.es/32l

2014-12-12 22:33 GMT+01:00 LizR :
>
> On 13 December 2014 at 10:24, Alberto G. Corona 
> wrote:
>>
>> There are many kind of dumb people, but there are one kind of the dumbest
>> ones, for which the  Western Wold  produce a massive surplus nowadays: the
>> ones that think that, because they are born and they are so pretty and so
>> nice and so intelligent, and because they are iphones, plasma TVs and
>> documentaries about the universe, there would be no more dictatorships, no
>> more deaths, no more hunger, no more turmoil in his country never forever
>> again.
>>
>> The Romans called it "bread and circuses" I believe. Plus ca change.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
Alberto.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread zibblequibble 


On Friday, December 12, 2014 5:37:01 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM, > 
> wrote:
>
> >> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year 
>>> Milankovitch cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever 
>>> been 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion 
>>> years 360 million years ago.
>>>
>>
>> > you asked this in previous climate row thread months back. I actually 
>> answered at the time and it was a pretty answer
>>
>
> Your answer would have been even prettier if it actually existed. I just 
> did a search on that old thread and neither you nor anybody else explained 
> how the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle made the Earth 
> colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago and made the Earth hotter 
> than any time in the last two billion years 360 million years ago.
>
>   John K Clark
>

I had a different nick I should think. I was off the meds, went all 80's 
retro. I think I was Robert Palmer or one of the models
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcATvu5f9vE

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread meekerdb 

On 12/12/2014 12:02 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black helicopters are coming 
for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and fear, let me give you some more fodder 
to fuel the mental fires of the paranoia squirming around inside your mind.


Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses with.

Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction? 



image 






Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction? 

A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440 million years 
ago, according to a new paper that says a similar celestial catastrophe could...


View on news.nationalgeograph... 



Preview by Yahoo




Mass extinction...Alberto would be all for that.  He'd just be against doing anything to 
stop it.  Anybody who'd propose that is a pinko atheist commy set on world domination.


Brent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
The permo-triassic extinction was caused by vulcanism (a superplume) in
Siberia. That is the most accepted hypothesis.

2014-12-12 22:36 GMT+01:00 LizR :
>
> Has anyone noticed that it is almost exactly one galactic year since the
> Permian-Triassic extinction? (96% of marine and 70% of land life died - the
> only extinction event known to have wiped out insect species, apparently).
> So we're back in the same part of the galaxy as we were when it
> happenedlast time!
>
> Of course the galaxy is a dynamic thing and "the same part" loosely
> defined at best, but ... something else to worry about?
>
> :-)
>
>
> On 13 December 2014 at 10:26, Alberto G. Corona 
> wrote:
>>
>> they are -> they have
>>
>> 2014-12-12 22:24 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
>>>
>>> There are many kind of dumb people, but there are one kind of the
>>> dumbest ones, for which the  Western Wold  produce a massive surplus
>>> nowadays: the ones that think that, because they are born and they are so
>>> pretty and so nice and so intelligent, and because they are iphones, plasma
>>> TVs and documentaries about the universe, there would be no more
>>> dictatorships, no more deaths, no more hunger, no more turmoil in his
>>> country never forever again.
>>>
>>> 2014-12-12 21:02 GMT+01:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <
>>> everything-list@googlegroups.com>:

 Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black
 helicopters are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and
 fear, let me give you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the
 paranoia squirming around inside your mind.

 Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the
 masses with.

 Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
 


 [image: image]
 





 Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
 
 A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth may have caused a mass die-off
 440 million years ago, according to a new paper that says a similar
 celestial catastrophe could...
 View on news.nationalgeograph...
 
 Preview by Yahoo



   --
  *From:* Alberto G. Corona 
 *To:* everything-list 
 *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2014 3:45 AM
 *Subject:* Re: real A.I.

 There is hope anyway. For example slip the attention of the power
 hungry and their pawns, the obsessive people with other menaces. For
 example, the possible impact of an asteroid:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGMDMNeWh0

 To divert world efforts to create a body of the UN to conjure that
 menace. That way the heads of state and the megaburocracies can meet, they
 can increase taxes, they can marry their sons among them, the mases will be
 indoctrinated and will be happy with the new fears watching the TV.
 scientifics that are deniers of the asteroid consensus would be harrassed
 by prominent figures of the mass media and everyone will be happy.

 But I´m affraid that this would not work, unless the asteroid require
 harder sacrifices to the political elite, more than taxes. for example
 blood sacrifices. For example abortions in masse. That is the attractive of
 ecologism and global warming: The commitment to the cause produced by blood
 sacrifices and the consequent psychological slavement of women. Once you
 alienate women from their men, you have enslaved a country.




 2014-12-12 11:43 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :

 The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.



 2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :

 On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:


 > We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate
 of the Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.


 When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent
 than anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of
 intelligence is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental
 conditions.


  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the
 Earth was super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years
 ago and everything in-between since?

  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.

 Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year
 Milankovitch cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's
 ever been 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread LizR 
Has anyone noticed that it is almost exactly one galactic year since the
Permian-Triassic extinction? (96% of marine and 70% of land life died - the
only extinction event known to have wiped out insect species, apparently).
So we're back in the same part of the galaxy as we were when it
happenedlast time!

Of course the galaxy is a dynamic thing and "the same part" loosely defined
at best, but ... something else to worry about?

:-)


On 13 December 2014 at 10:26, Alberto G. Corona  wrote:
>
> they are -> they have
>
> 2014-12-12 22:24 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
>>
>> There are many kind of dumb people, but there are one kind of the dumbest
>> ones, for which the  Western Wold  produce a massive surplus nowadays: the
>> ones that think that, because they are born and they are so pretty and so
>> nice and so intelligent, and because they are iphones, plasma TVs and
>> documentaries about the universe, there would be no more dictatorships, no
>> more deaths, no more hunger, no more turmoil in his country never forever
>> again.
>>
>> 2014-12-12 21:02 GMT+01:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <
>> everything-list@googlegroups.com>:
>>>
>>> Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black
>>> helicopters are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and
>>> fear, let me give you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the
>>> paranoia squirming around inside your mind.
>>>
>>> Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses
>>> with.
>>>
>>> Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: image]
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
>>> 
>>> A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440
>>> million years ago, according to a new paper that says a similar celestial
>>> catastrophe could...
>>> View on news.nationalgeograph...
>>> 
>>> Preview by Yahoo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   --
>>>  *From:* Alberto G. Corona 
>>> *To:* everything-list 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2014 3:45 AM
>>> *Subject:* Re: real A.I.
>>>
>>> There is hope anyway. For example slip the attention of the power hungry
>>> and their pawns, the obsessive people with other menaces. For example, the
>>> possible impact of an asteroid:
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGMDMNeWh0
>>>
>>> To divert world efforts to create a body of the UN to conjure that
>>> menace. That way the heads of state and the megaburocracies can meet, they
>>> can increase taxes, they can marry their sons among them, the mases will be
>>> indoctrinated and will be happy with the new fears watching the TV.
>>> scientifics that are deniers of the asteroid consensus would be harrassed
>>> by prominent figures of the mass media and everyone will be happy.
>>>
>>> But I´m affraid that this would not work, unless the asteroid require
>>> harder sacrifices to the political elite, more than taxes. for example
>>> blood sacrifices. For example abortions in masse. That is the attractive of
>>> ecologism and global warming: The commitment to the cause produced by blood
>>> sacrifices and the consequent psychological slavement of women. Once you
>>> alienate women from their men, you have enslaved a country.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-12-12 11:43 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
>>>
>>> The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> > We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate
>>> of the Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.
>>>
>>>
>>> When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent
>>> than anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of
>>> intelligence is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental
>>> conditions.
>>>
>>>
>>>  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth
>>> was super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago
>>> and everything in-between since?
>>>
>>>  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.
>>>
>>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year
>>> Milankovitch cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever
>>> been 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion
>>> years 360 million years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>> >> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic
>>> says the global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon,
>>>
>>>  > It's the 95% upper confidence bound of the IPCC projection for 2100.
>>>
>>>

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread LizR 
On 13 December 2014 at 10:24, Alberto G. Corona  wrote:
>
> There are many kind of dumb people, but there are one kind of the dumbest
> ones, for which the  Western Wold  produce a massive surplus nowadays: the
> ones that think that, because they are born and they are so pretty and so
> nice and so intelligent, and because they are iphones, plasma TVs and
> documentaries about the universe, there would be no more dictatorships, no
> more deaths, no more hunger, no more turmoil in his country never forever
> again.
>
> The Romans called it "bread and circuses" I believe. Plus ca change.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread LizR 
On 13 December 2014 at 10:23, meekerdb  wrote:
>
> On 12/12/2014 11:33 AM, LizR wrote:
>
>> The point is that none of these previous events involved such rapid
>> change as we're seeing now, but even if they did, so what? We know what's
>> going on, it isn't hard to monitor. We've known how the greenhouse effect
>> works for more than 2 centuries, we can measure the amount of carbon
>> dioxide in the atmosphere, we know it's gone up just over 40% since the
>> industrial revolution, we have a reasonable model of the likely results -
>> not perfect of course for such a complex system, but we're seeing the sorts
>> of results that have been predicted. Ice melting over the arctic, glaciers
>> retreating, sea levels rising, more extreme weather and now a disruption to
>> the jet stream. If this was, for example, the detection of a new
>> astronomical object or fundamental particle there wouldn't be any question
>> about whether it existed.
>>
>
> Exactly so.  But if the new astronomical object were an asteriod that was
> predicted to hit the Earth in 20yrs and preventing this would require some
> effort and expense on the part of the rich and comfortable there would be
> deniers pointing out that many objects have struck the Earth in the past
> and life survived and besides it will probably just strike the ocean and
> nobody but environmental elitists care about the ocean and it's really just
> a hoax by astronomers to make them rich and we all know that those orbital
> mechanics programs can be tweaked to give any answer you want and besides
> the asteroid may contain precious metals we can mine and if it hit the
> middle east wouldn't we all be better off anyway and let's just wait
> because we're sure to invent some magic bullet to solve this problem in the
> next 19yrs.
>
> True. That is simultaneously amusing and terrifying.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
 they are -> they have

2014-12-12 22:24 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
>
> There are many kind of dumb people, but there are one kind of the dumbest
> ones, for which the  Western Wold  produce a massive surplus nowadays: the
> ones that think that, because they are born and they are so pretty and so
> nice and so intelligent, and because they are iphones, plasma TVs and
> documentaries about the universe, there would be no more dictatorships, no
> more deaths, no more hunger, no more turmoil in his country never forever
> again.
>
> 2014-12-12 21:02 GMT+01:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <
> everything-list@googlegroups.com>:
>>
>> Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black
>> helicopters are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and
>> fear, let me give you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the
>> paranoia squirming around inside your mind.
>>
>> Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses
>> with.
>>
>> Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
>> 
>>
>>
>> [image: image]
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
>> 
>> A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440
>> million years ago, according to a new paper that says a similar celestial
>> catastrophe could...
>> View on news.nationalgeograph...
>> 
>> Preview by Yahoo
>>
>>
>>
>>   --
>>  *From:* Alberto G. Corona 
>> *To:* everything-list 
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2014 3:45 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: real A.I.
>>
>> There is hope anyway. For example slip the attention of the power hungry
>> and their pawns, the obsessive people with other menaces. For example, the
>> possible impact of an asteroid:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGMDMNeWh0
>>
>> To divert world efforts to create a body of the UN to conjure that
>> menace. That way the heads of state and the megaburocracies can meet, they
>> can increase taxes, they can marry their sons among them, the mases will be
>> indoctrinated and will be happy with the new fears watching the TV.
>> scientifics that are deniers of the asteroid consensus would be harrassed
>> by prominent figures of the mass media and everyone will be happy.
>>
>> But I´m affraid that this would not work, unless the asteroid require
>> harder sacrifices to the political elite, more than taxes. for example
>> blood sacrifices. For example abortions in masse. That is the attractive of
>> ecologism and global warming: The commitment to the cause produced by blood
>> sacrifices and the consequent psychological slavement of women. Once you
>> alienate women from their men, you have enslaved a country.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-12-12 11:43 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
>>
>> The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
>>
>>
>> > We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate of
>> the Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.
>>
>>
>> When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent
>> than anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of
>> intelligence is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental
>> conditions.
>>
>>
>>  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth
>> was super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago
>> and everything in-between since?
>>
>>  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.
>>
>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch
>> cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever been 450
>> million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion years
>> 360 million years ago.
>>
>>
>> >> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic says
>> the global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon,
>>
>>  > It's the 95% upper confidence bound of the IPCC projection for 2100.
>>
>>
>> Bureaucratic agencies have a survival instinct, if people thought there
>> was no need to be in a environmental panic there would be no reason for
>> a agency like the IPCC to exist, and I don't give a damn if they're
>> confident I only care if they're correct and predictions about what things
>> will be like in 85 years almost never are. For heavens sake that's like
>> demanding that the Wright Brothers find a solution to airport congestion;
>> if in 85 years global warming turns out to be a real problem our toolkit
>> for fixing things will be VASTLY larger and more powerful than it is now,
>> and in the

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
There are many kind of dumb people, but there are one kind of the dumbest
ones, for which the  Western Wold  produce a massive surplus nowadays: the
ones that think that, because they are born and they are so pretty and so
nice and so intelligent, and because they are iphones, plasma TVs and
documentaries about the universe, there would be no more dictatorships, no
more deaths, no more hunger, no more turmoil in his country never forever
again.

2014-12-12 21:02 GMT+01:00 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com>:
>
> Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black
> helicopters are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and
> fear, let me give you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the
> paranoia squirming around inside your mind.
>
> Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses
> with.
>
> Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
> 
>
>
> [image: image]
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?
> 
> A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth may have caused a mass die-off 440
> million years ago, according to a new paper that says a similar celestial
> catastrophe could...
> View on news.nationalgeograph...
> 
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>   --
>  *From:* Alberto G. Corona 
> *To:* everything-list 
> *Sent:* Friday, December 12, 2014 3:45 AM
> *Subject:* Re: real A.I.
>
> There is hope anyway. For example slip the attention of the power hungry
> and their pawns, the obsessive people with other menaces. For example, the
> possible impact of an asteroid:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGMDMNeWh0
>
> To divert world efforts to create a body of the UN to conjure that menace.
> That way the heads of state and the megaburocracies can meet, they can
> increase taxes, they can marry their sons among them, the mases will be
> indoctrinated and will be happy with the new fears watching the TV.
> scientifics that are deniers of the asteroid consensus would be harrassed
> by prominent figures of the mass media and everyone will be happy.
>
> But I´m affraid that this would not work, unless the asteroid require
> harder sacrifices to the political elite, more than taxes. for example
> blood sacrifices. For example abortions in masse. That is the attractive of
> ecologism and global warming: The commitment to the cause produced by blood
> sacrifices and the consequent psychological slavement of women. Once you
> alienate women from their men, you have enslaved a country.
>
>
>
>
> 2014-12-12 11:43 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
>
> The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.
>
>
>
> 2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
>
>
> > We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate of
> the Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.
>
>
> When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent
> than anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of
> intelligence is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental
> conditions.
>
>
>  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth
> was super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago
> and everything in-between since?
>
>  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.
>
> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch
> cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever been 450
> million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion years
> 360 million years ago.
>
>
> >> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic says
> the global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon,
>
>  > It's the 95% upper confidence bound of the IPCC projection for 2100.
>
>
> Bureaucratic agencies have a survival instinct, if people thought there
> was no need to be in a environmental panic there would be no reason for a
> agency like the IPCC to exist, and I don't give a damn if they're confident
> I only care if they're correct and predictions about what things will be
> like in 85 years almost never are. For heavens sake that's like demanding
> that the Wright Brothers find a solution to airport congestion; if in 85
> years global warming turns out to be a real problem our toolkit for fixing
> things will be VASTLY larger and more powerful than it is now, and in the
> meantime there are plenty of more important problems that need fixing right
> now.
>
>
>
> > Bullshit.  You're just making up straw man "environmentalist".  One of
> my close friends is president of t

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread meekerdb 

On 12/12/2014 11:33 AM, LizR wrote:
The point is that none of these previous events involved such rapid change as we're 
seeing now, but even if they did, so what? We know what's going on, it isn't hard to 
monitor. We've known how the greenhouse effect works for more than 2 centuries, we can 
measure the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, we know it's gone up just over 
40% since the industrial revolution, we have a reasonable model of the likely results - 
not perfect of course for such a complex system, but we're seeing the sorts of results 
that have been predicted. Ice melting over the arctic, glaciers retreating, sea levels 
rising, more extreme weather and now a disruption to the jet stream. If this was, for 
example, the detection of a new astronomical object or fundamental particle there 
wouldn't be any question about whether it existed.


Exactly so.  But if the new astronomical object were an asteriod that was predicted to hit 
the Earth in 20yrs and preventing this would require some effort and expense on the part 
of the rich and comfortable there would be deniers pointing out that many objects have 
struck the Earth in the past and life survived and besides it will probably just strike 
the ocean and nobody but environmental elitists care about the ocean and it's really just 
a hoax by astronomers to make them rich and we all know that those orbital mechanics 
programs can be tweaked to give any answer you want and besides the asteroid may contain 
precious metals we can mine and if it hit the middle east wouldn't we all be better off 
anyway and let's just wait because we're sure to invent some magic bullet to solve this 
problem in the next 19yrs.


Brent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List 
Alberto... you sound like someone who is convinced that the black helicopters 
are coming for you. Since you seem to thrive on paranoia and fear, let me give 
you some more fodder to fuel the mental fires of the paranoia squirming around 
inside your mind.
Here is another scary fear your godless UN elites can enslave the masses with.
Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?

|   |
|   |  |   |   |   |   |   |
| Gamma-Ray Burst Caused Mass Extinction?A stream of gamma rays aimed at Earth 
may have caused a mass die-off 440 million years ago, according to a new paper 
that says a similar celestial catastrophe could... |
|  |
| View on news.nationalgeograph... | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |

  
  From: Alberto G. Corona 
 To: everything-list  
 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 3:45 AM
 Subject: Re: real A.I.
   
There is hope anyway. For example slip the attention of the power hungry and 
their pawns, the obsessive people with other menaces. For example, the possible 
impact of an asteroid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGMDMNeWh0
To divert world efforts to create a body of the UN to conjure that menace. That 
way the heads of state and the megaburocracies can meet, they can increase 
taxes, they can marry their sons among them, the mases will be indoctrinated 
and will be happy with the new fears watching the TV. scientifics that are 
deniers of the asteroid consensus would be harrassed by prominent figures of 
the mass media and everyone will be happy.

But I´m affraid that this would not work, unless the asteroid require harder 
sacrifices to the political elite, more than taxes. for example blood 
sacrifices. For example abortions in masse. That is the attractive of ecologism 
and global warming: The commitment to the cause produced by blood sacrifices 
and the consequent psychological slavement of women. Once you alienate women 
from their men, you have enslaved a country.




2014-12-12 11:43 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.



2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :
On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
 
> We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate of the 
> Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.


When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent than 
anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of intelligence 
is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental conditions.   



  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth was 
super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago and 
everything in-between since?
 
  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.


Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle 
can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago 
and hotter than any time in the last two billion years 360 million years ago.
 
 
>> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic says the 
>> global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon,



  > It's the 95% upper confidence bound of the IPCC projection for 2100.  

Bureaucratic agencies have a survival instinct, if people thought there was no 
need to be in a environmental panic there would be no reason for a agency like 
the IPCC to exist, and I don't give a damn if they're confident I only care if 
they're correct and predictions about what things will be like in 85 years 
almost never are. For heavens sake that's like demanding that the Wright 
Brothers find a solution to airport congestion; if in 85 years global warming 
turns out to be a real problem our toolkit for fixing things will be VASTLY 
larger and more powerful than it is now, and in the meantime there are plenty 
of more important problems that need fixing right now. 

 

 > Bullshit.  You're just making up straw man "environmentalist".  One of my 
 > close friends is president of the Sierra Club and he's *for* nuclear power.  


We've been down this road before.  I don't know who your mystery friend is but 
I do know that the Sierra Club official website says:
 
"The Sierra Club remains unequivocally opposed to nuclear energy." 


> And even those who are against it only hold that opinion because they think 
> solar and wind can replace oil. 


Then they are fools.

  John K Clark

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
Alberto.


-- 
Alberto.-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group a

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List 

  From: LizR 
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 11:33 AM
 Subject: Re: real A.I.
   
>>The point is that none of these previous events involved such rapid change as 
>>we're seeing now, but even if they did, so what? We know what's going on, it 
>>isn't hard to monitor. We've known how the greenhouse effect works for more 
>>than 2 centuries, we can measure the amount of carbon dioxide in the 
>>atmosphere, we know it's gone up just over 40% since the industrial 
>>revolution, we have a reasonable model of the likely results - not perfect of 
>>course for such a complex system, but we're seeing the sorts of results that 
>>have been predicted. Ice melting over the arctic, glaciers retreating, sea 
>>levels rising, more extreme weather and now a disruption to the jet stream. 
>>If this was, for example, the detection of a new astronomical object or 
>>fundamental particle there wouldn't be any question about whether it existed.
This is what happens when trillions of dollars of "wealth" are pegged to the 
future value of the fossil carbon deposits, it creates a massive incentive to 
obstruct science and policy and to continue on with a business as usual 
approach. If the world seriously began transitioning away from the burning of 
fossil carbon in order to produce mechanical work -- extremely powerful mega 
fortunes with vested outsized influence over the political bodies and the 
courts (and every other facet of society as well) -- would see the future 
evaluations of their vast carbon reserve holdings evaporate. These future 
evaluations are counted as significant current assets on balance sheets.I 
suspect many global multinational energy corporations would go belly up if the 
current market evaluation of their future carbon reserve evaluations 
collapsed.-Chris


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


   

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List 

  From: Alberto G. Corona 
 To: everything-list  
 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2014 2:43 AM
 Subject: Re: real A.I.
   
>>The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.
Precisely... for once you say something that actually makes some sense... 
though not in the way you intended it to. The key nexus of power is the power 
of the fossil lobby protecting the future evaluation of its fossil energy 
reserves -- and hence the current bottom line balance sheets of the global 
fossil energy giants. As long as the world remains fixed on the fossil carbon 
treadmill these huge fortunes will be protected and their power -- both 
economic and political -- preserved. This provides a powerful and clear motive 
to lie, distort, obfuscate, censure, oppose, and obstruct.-Chris



2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :
On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
 
> We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate of the 
> Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.


When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent than 
anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of intelligence 
is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental conditions.   



  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth was 
super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago and 
everything in-between since?
 
  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.


Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle 
can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago 
and hotter than any time in the last two billion years 360 million years ago.
 
 
>> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic says the 
>> global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon,



  > It's the 95% upper confidence bound of the IPCC projection for 2100.  

Bureaucratic agencies have a survival instinct, if people thought there was no 
need to be in a environmental panic there would be no reason for a agency like 
the IPCC to exist, and I don't give a damn if they're confident I only care if 
they're correct and predictions about what things will be like in 85 years 
almost never are. For heavens sake that's like demanding that the Wright 
Brothers find a solution to airport congestion; if in 85 years global warming 
turns out to be a real problem our toolkit for fixing things will be VASTLY 
larger and more powerful than it is now, and in the meantime there are plenty 
of more important problems that need fixing right now. 

 

 > Bullshit.  You're just making up straw man "environmentalist".  One of my 
 > close friends is president of the Sierra Club and he's *for* nuclear power.  


We've been down this road before.  I don't know who your mystery friend is but 
I do know that the Sierra Club official website says:
 
"The Sierra Club remains unequivocally opposed to nuclear energy." 


> And even those who are against it only hold that opinion because they think 
> solar and wind can replace oil. 


Then they are fools.

  John K Clark

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
Alberto.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


  

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread LizR 
The point is that none of these previous events involved such rapid change
as we're seeing now, but even if they did, so what? We know what's going
on, it isn't hard to monitor. We've known how the greenhouse effect works
for more than 2 centuries, we can measure the amount of carbon dioxide in
the atmosphere, we know it's gone up just over 40% since the industrial
revolution, we have a reasonable model of the likely results - not perfect
of course for such a complex system, but we're seeing the sorts of results
that have been predicted. Ice melting over the arctic, glaciers retreating,
sea levels rising, more extreme weather and now a disruption to the jet
stream. If this was, for example, the detection of a new astronomical
object or fundamental particle there wouldn't be any question about whether
it existed.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Newcomb's Paradox

2014-12-12 Thread Bruno Marchal 


On 12 Dec 2014, at 02:22, Jason Resch wrote:




On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:10 PM, LizR  wrote:
On 11 December 2014 at 18:59, Stathis Papaioannou  
 wrote:


On Thursday, December 11, 2014, LizR  wrote:
Maybe it's a delayed choice experiment and retroactively collapses  
the wave function, so your choice actually does determine the  
contents of the boxes.


(Just a thought...maybe the second box has a cat in it...)

No such trickery is required. Consider the experiment where the  
subject is a computer program and the clairvoyant is you, with the  
program's source code and inputs. You will always know exactly what  
the program will do by running it, including all its deliberations.  
If it is the sort of program that decides to choose both boxes it  
will lose the million dollars. The question of whether it *ought to*  
choose both boxes or one is meaningless if it is a deterministic  
program, and the paradox arises from failing to understand this.


Not trickery, how dare you?! An attempt to give a meaningful answer  
which actually makes something worthwhile from what appears to be a  
trivial "paradox" without any real teeth.


But OK since you are determined to belittle my efforts, let's try  
your approach.


1 wait 10 seconds
2 print "after careful consideration, I have decided to open both  
boxes"

3 stop

This is what ANY deterministic computer programme (with no added  
random inputs) would boil down to, although millions of lines of  
code might take a while to analyse, and the simplest way to find out  
the answer in practice might be to run it (but each run would give  
the same result, so once it's been run once we can replace it with  
my simpler version).


I have to admit I can't see where the paradox is, or why there is  
any interest in discussing it.



It's probably not a true paradox, but why it seems like one is that  
depending on which version of decision theory you use, you can be  
led to two opposite conclusions.



Yes, I think that initially it was a test to see if you believe in  
"free-will". here I add quotes for reason which I explain later.


The idea is that those who take the two boxes believe in "free-will",  
because they believe that if they decide to take only the box B, then  
there is money in the two boxes, and they leaves money on the table  
for nothing. They believe that somehow they can fool the predictor  
just because if it was correct, then the two boxes are full of money,  
so why not taken them both!


But in this list I guess most people have no problem with determinism,  
and conceive some predictor, outside of the box, and capable to take  
into account the reasoning above. So we take one box.





About half of people think one-boxing is best, and the other half  
think two-boxing is best, and more often then not, people from  
either side think people on the other side are idiots.


It usually mirror well the believer in "free-will", and indeed in the  
sense that John Clark mocks a lot, and here I agree with him. That  
notion of free-will negates determinacy, and consider that our  
decision are not predictable.


That notion of free-will can be refuted. It really makes no sense. But  
the weaker notion of free-will, which is that that our decision are  
not predictable *by ourself*, still make sense. If we could find a way  
to predict ourselves, we would be cured against hesitation and doubt,  
but computationalism entails, by computer science, that there is no  
complete cure or vaccination against doubt and hesitation. Even  
inconsistency does not prevent you from doubting, only unsoundness  
(insanity) can, in theory.





However, for whatever reason, everyone on this list seems to agree  
one-boxing is best, so you are missing out on the interesting  
discussions that can arise from seeing people justify their  
alternate decision.


You might try to see if what I say above is corroborated. Believer in  
strong (say) free-will choose two-boxing, and the non believer (like  
most people here I guess) in that strong free-will choose the one- 
boxing.






Often two-boxers will say: the predictor's already made his  
decision, what you decide now can't change the past or alter what's  
already been done. So you're just leaving money on the table by not  
taking both boxes. An interesting twist one two-boxer told me was:  
what would you do if both boxes were transparent, and how does that  
additional information change what the best choice is?


You are right with the analogy that it is a form of the surprise  
examination paradox. In this case the teacher says just "today I will  
do a surprise examination".


The more you take the teacher seriously, the more you make him  
inconsistent, even insane if you push a bit.


It is a bit like  "I predict that tomorrow you will act in in a manner  
to make this prediction wrong".


Smullyan is correct in seeing a relationship between the examination  
paradox with the self-referential senten

Re: Intelligence & Consciousness

2014-12-12 Thread John Clark 
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 2:33 AM,  wrote:

> I apologize for this unreadable drivel
>

But with a real flare for writing unreadable drivel you could go far in the
psychology or philosophy departments at any university.

  John K Clark

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 

what of snowball earth, where phyto plankton chilled the earth over, entirely? 
This was at least 600 million years ago, make the epoch of the reptiles, and 
later, dinosaurs, 300-400 million years in the future of snowball earth. 
Freaky, that.
 
 
-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Fri, Dec 12, 2014 12:37 pm
Subject: Re: real A.I.


On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM,   wrote:






>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch 
>> cycle can explain why the Earth was   colder than it's ever been 
>> 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion years 
>> 360 million years  ago.




> you asked this in previous climate row thread months back. I actually 
> answered at the time and it was a pretty answer



Your answer would have been even prettier if it actually existed. I just did a 
search on that old thread and neither you nor anybody else explained how the 
21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle made the Earth  
colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago and made the Earthhotter than 
any time in the last two billion years 360 million years  ago.


  John K Clark







 




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-12 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 

Yes, I just read your reply from after my post, so thanks, again
 
Mitch
 
 
-Original Message-
From: spudboy100 via Everything List 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Fri, Dec 12, 2014 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: Consciousness


Thanks, Professor Marchal, I will retry the link here. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXZOhqbQsOw
 
Its called the afterlife dysfunction, on youtube, and I am not sure if the 
producer of the video is the good professor at Antwerp? (Athenewins) Its seems 
to be a celebration of the biocentrism theory by cell biologist, Robert Lanza, 
and astronomer, Bob (uncle bob) Berman. My only questions for Dr, Van Der 
Vedken, is, do you still hold biocentrism as physically, valid, and why do you, 
as it, like quantum suicide, promotes all kinds of horrible and irrational 
worlds to suffer through? Worlds where our next experience is to survive for a 
view minutes because humans arrive with no skin, worlds where there are no 
arrivals with cerebrums, earths of acids and salts, relatively, nice worlds, 
where people have three eyes, and then there's the discussion that our world 
lines split, and all we get to be is relatively older, and older, before the 
next split off. 
 
Surely, as the old Christmas carol goes, no, "tidings of comfort and joie," 
found here. 
 
Mitch
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Thu, Dec 11, 2014 10:23 am
Subject: Re: Consciousness




On 11 Dec 2014, at 03:53, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:




Sent from AOL Mobile


Perhaps unrelated, is a young theoretical physicist at the university of 
antwerp, named van der veeken, who under his nom de guerre, went by the name of 
athene, for the video on youtube, afterlife dysfunction. I wonder if professor 
Marchal has heard of him? I have viewed this video before, but tomorrow, after 
the ale fades (porter) I will review this video. It might contribute to this 
exchange of views.


http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=aXZOhqbQsOw




I don't know him, except he might have sent to me a message some years ago, but 
I don't find it. Currently I don't succeed to get that video. Are you sure of 
the link? It is broken on my mail messages.


Bruno






Mitch



-Original Message-
From: meekerdb 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 09:21 PM
Subject: Re: Consciousness


 
 
On 12/10/2014 2:00 PM, LizR wrote:
>
>
> So, with all due respect, I would like to know if there are peer-reviewed 
> papers by 
> experts in the relevant fields, which also make these claims? The IQ 130 
> student, who is 
> presumably still around to be studied, might be a good place to start. If she 
> really is 
> what is being claimed that would seem to be very strong evidence that 
> high-functioning 
> consciousness can exist in a much reduced brain, and maybe even without one.

Google can't find her.

Brent

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

 
  


 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



 
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



 



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at ht

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread John Clark 
On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 10:44 AM,  wrote:

>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year
>> Milankovitch cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever
>> been 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion
>> years 360 million years ago.
>>
>
> > you asked this in previous climate row thread months back. I actually
> answered at the time and it was a pretty answer
>

Your answer would have been even prettier if it actually existed. I just
did a search on that old thread and neither you nor anybody else explained
how the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch cycle made the Earth
colder than it's ever been 450 million years ago and made the Earth hotter
than any time in the last two billion years 360 million years ago.

  John K Clark

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Consciousness

2014-12-12 Thread spudboy100 via Everything List 

Thanks, Professor Marchal, I will retry the link here. 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXZOhqbQsOw
 
Its called the afterlife dysfunction, on youtube, and I am not sure if the 
producer of the video is the good professor at Antwerp? (Athenewins) Its seems 
to be a celebration of the biocentrism theory by cell biologist, Robert Lanza, 
and astronomer, Bob (uncle bob) Berman. My only questions for Dr, Van Der 
Vedken, is, do you still hold biocentrism as physically, valid, and why do you, 
as it, like quantum suicide, promotes all kinds of horrible and irrational 
worlds to suffer through? Worlds where our next experience is to survive for a 
view minutes because humans arrive with no skin, worlds where there are no 
arrivals with cerebrums, earths of acids and salts, relatively, nice worlds, 
where people have three eyes, and then there's the discussion that our world 
lines split, and all we get to be is relatively older, and older, before the 
next split off. 

Surely, as the old Christmas carol goes, no, "tidings of comfort and joie," 
found here. 

Mitch
 
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Bruno Marchal 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Thu, Dec 11, 2014 10:23 am
Subject: Re: Consciousness




On 11 Dec 2014, at 03:53, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:




Sent from AOL Mobile


Perhaps unrelated, is a young theoretical physicist at the university of 
antwerp, named van der veeken, who under his nom de guerre, went by the name of 
athene, for the video on youtube, afterlife dysfunction. I wonder if professor 
Marchal has heard of him? I have viewed this video before, but tomorrow, after 
the ale fades (porter) I will review this video. It might contribute to this 
exchange of views.


http://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=aXZOhqbQsOw




I don't know him, except he might have sent to me a message some years ago, but 
I don't find it. Currently I don't succeed to get that video. Are you sure of 
the link? It is broken on my mail messages.


Bruno






Mitch



-Original Message-
From: meekerdb 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Dec 10, 2014 09:21 PM
Subject: Re: Consciousness


 
 
On 12/10/2014 2:00 PM, LizR wrote:
>
>
> So, with all due respect, I would like to know if there are peer-reviewed 
> papers by 
> experts in the relevant fields, which also make these claims? The IQ 130 
> student, who is 
> presumably still around to be studied, might be a good place to start. If she 
> really is 
> what is being claimed that would seem to be very strong evidence that 
> high-functioning 
> consciousness can exist in a much reduced brain, and maybe even without one.

Google can't find her.

Brent

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

 
  


 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
 For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



 
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



 



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread zibblequibble 


On Friday, December 12, 2014 6:20:05 AM UTC, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  > wrote:
>  
>
>> > We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate of 
>> the Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.
>>
>
> When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent 
> than anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of 
> intelligence is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental 
> conditions.
>





>>  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth 
>>> was super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago 
>>> and everything in-between since?
>>>
>>>  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.
>>
>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch 
> cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever been 450 
> million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion years 
> 360 million years ago.
>

you asked this in previous climate row thread months back. I actually 
answered at the time and it was a pretty answer I answered all your 
questions I saw in that post. 

Do you know what you did? you totally ignored me for the rest of 
the climate row. And you carried on asking the same questions.. 

Si come on! You aren't interested in answers to any of your questions..

And nor should you be.. You love this sort of john against the world thing, 
Climate is the mother of all john against the world You lurve climate

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread zibblequibble 


On Thursday, December 11, 2014 8:02:23 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
>
> On Wed, Dec 10, 2014 at 10:37 PM, meekerdb  > wrote:
>
> > What evidence can you cite that in the past the Earth's temperature has 
>> risen more than 0.7degK in 40yrs?
>>
>  
> Except for the Ordovician period 450 million years ago and a few very 
> brief ice ages during the last few hundred thousand years the last billion 
> years has always been warmer than now, occasionally MUCH warmer.  In the 
> last billion years it has never been warmer than during the Carboniferous 
> Era 360 million years ago, and I don't believe life has ever been quite 
> that lush and plentiful again.
>

John - the eco-system in the Carboniferous Era  was whole levels less 
complex than now. We live in the period of most complexity. If you actually 
visited the Carboniferous what would strike (just before the other thing 
behind you ate you) the mot would be how little diversity there was. There 
were no flowers, ferns  carpeted a lot of the planet. No bees. much less in 
the sky. 

And animals were much more simple, and they were all cold blooded. Don't 
get me wrong, they had a great life. They loved eating each-other. ,

Not that it isn't an interesting theory though. You're sort of lining up 
epochs like the Carnivorous, surveying their responses to steamy hot 
period.. Finding they wee making hy bby. So then what we is use the market 
reactions of the pre-amphibian meg tongues, and the humungus mcfungi 
crocahungergonnaeatas,they definitely kept coming back to the steamy 
stinky outdoor bathing lidos and it was blasted hot there

Yes. I'm on board. We use that as proxy for the situation now. John, johnny 
boy, gosh I do fancy you roitten

>
>> > But in this case we don't need to look for "super complex factors".  We 
>> know exactly how much CO2 we've added to the atmosphere and we know exactly 
>> how it traps heat. 
>>
>  
> And yet we don't know why during the Ordovician period 450 million years 
> ago there was a HUGE amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, about 4400 ppm verses 
> 380 today, but the world was in a severe ice age, much colder than the more 
> recent ice ages we are more familiar with.
>  
>
>> > The only uncertainties are in the positive feedback factors, like water 
>> vapor, snow cover, 
>>
>
> Don't misunderstand me, I'm perfectly willing to concede that human 
> activity has had a effect on global climate and will have a even bigger 
> effect in the future, but predicting exactly what things will be like in 
> the future or explaining why there were as they were in the past is not as 
> simple as you seem to think. Cloud cover and snow cover determines how much 
> energy is available to run the entire global climate machine, so 
> uncertainties about them means uncertainties about everything.
>
> > methane production
>>
>
> And methane is 30 times as effective at producing a greenhouse effect as 
> CO2 is. 
>  
>
>>  > The main factor for the temperature variations on the scale of 
>> millions of years is the change in solar intensity and the Earth's orbit.
>>
>
> Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth was 
> super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago and 
> everything in-between since?
>
> > Do you have any evidence that raising the temperature 4.5degK will not 
>> be disastrous for many millions of people?
>>
>
> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic says the 
> global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon, but never mind, 
> do you have any evidence that raising the temperature 4.5degK will not be 
> beneficial for many millions of people? Do you have any evidence that the 
> temperature things were at a century ago is the exact temperature things 
> should stay at forever?
>  
>>
>>  >> It was not a coincidence that the megafauna of North America and 
>>> South America and Australia that had existed for many millions of years 
>>> disappeared almost immediately after humans visited those continents for 
>>> the first time.  And today there are over 7 billion people on the Earth, 
>>> never before have there been that many large animals of the same large 
>>> species, nothing ever even came close. To keep that many animals alive 
>>> radical things are going to be needed to be done, to also keep them happy 
>>> even more radical things are going to be needed, like directly or 
>>> indirectly diverting nearly 40% of the planet's photosynthetic output to 
>>> human use. It would be astonishing if that sort of intervention did not 
>>> cause global changes of some sort to the climate, but short of asking 5 or 
>>> 6 billion people to kill themselves there is simply no alternative. 
>>>
>>
>>  > Stupid hyperbole.  Nobody is asking anybody to kill themselves.
>>
>
> They'll never have the guts to come right out and say it, or perhaps they 
> just don't have the brains to think things through, but In effect that is 
> exactly precisely w

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
There is hope anyway. For example slip the attention of the power hungry
and their pawns, the obsessive people with other menaces. For example, the
possible impact of an asteroid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aGMDMNeWh0

To divert world efforts to create a body of the UN to conjure that menace.
That way the heads of state and the megaburocracies can meet, they can
increase taxes, they can marry their sons among them, the mases will be
indoctrinated and will be happy with the new fears watching the TV.
scientifics that are deniers of the asteroid consensus would be harrassed
by prominent figures of the mass media and everyone will be happy.

But I´m affraid that this would not work, unless the asteroid require
harder sacrifices to the political elite, more than taxes. for example
blood sacrifices. For example abortions in masse. That is the attractive of
ecologism and global warming: The commitment to the cause produced by blood
sacrifices and the consequent psychological slavement of women. Once you
alienate women from their men, you have enslaved a country.


2014-12-12 11:43 GMT+01:00 Alberto G. Corona :
>
> The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.
>
>
>
> 2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> > We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate
>>> of the Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.
>>>
>>
>> When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent
>> than anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of
>> intelligence is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental
>> conditions.
>>
>>>
>>>  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth
 was super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago
 and everything in-between since?

  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.
>>>
>>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year
>> Milankovitch cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever
>> been 450 million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion
>> years 360 million years ago.
>>
>>
>>> >> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic
 says the global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon,

  > It's the 95% upper confidence bound of the IPCC projection for
>>> 2100.
>>>
>>
>> Bureaucratic agencies have a survival instinct, if people thought there
>> was no need to be in a environmental panic there would be no reason for
>> a agency like the IPCC to exist, and I don't give a damn if they're
>> confident I only care if they're correct and predictions about what things
>> will be like in 85 years almost never are. For heavens sake that's like
>> demanding that the Wright Brothers find a solution to airport congestion;
>> if in 85 years global warming turns out to be a real problem our toolkit
>> for fixing things will be VASTLY larger and more powerful than it is now,
>> and in the meantime there are plenty of more important problems that need
>> fixing right now.
>>
>>
>>
>>> > Bullshit.  You're just making up straw man "environmentalist".  One of
>>> my close friends is president of the Sierra Club and he's *for* nuclear
>>> power.
>>>
>>
>> We've been down this road before.  I don't know who your mystery friend
>> is but I do know that the Sierra Club official website says:
>>
>> "The Sierra Club remains unequivocally opposed to nuclear energy."
>>
>> > And even those who are against it only hold that opinion because they
>>> think solar and wind can replace oil.
>>>
>>
>> Then they are fools.
>>
>>   John K Clark
>>
>>  --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
> --
> Alberto.
>


-- 
Alberto.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: Newcomb's Paradox

2014-12-12 Thread Stathis Papaioannou 
On Friday, December 12, 2014, meekerdb  wrote:

> On 12/11/2014 5:49 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
>
>> On 12 December 2014 at 12:22, Jason Resch  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:10 PM, LizR  wrote:
>>>
 On 11 December 2014 at 18:59, Stathis Papaioannou 
 wrote:

>
> On Thursday, December 11, 2014, LizR  wrote:
>
>> Maybe it's a delayed choice experiment and retroactively collapses the
>> wave function, so your choice actually does determine the contents of
>> the
>> boxes.
>>
>> (Just a thought...maybe the second box has a cat in it...)
>>
>>  No such trickery is required. Consider the experiment where the
> subject
> is a computer program and the clairvoyant is you, with the program's
> source
> code and inputs. You will always know exactly what the program will do
> by
> running it, including all its deliberations. If it is the sort of
> program
> that decides to choose both boxes it will lose the million dollars. The
> question of whether it *ought to* choose both boxes or one is
> meaningless if
> it is a deterministic program, and the paradox arises from failing to
> understand this.
>
 Not trickery, how dare you?! An attempt to give a meaningful answer
 which
 actually makes something worthwhile from what appears to be a trivial
 "paradox" without any real teeth.

 But OK since you are determined to belittle my efforts, let's try your
 approach.

 1 wait 10 seconds
 2 print "after careful consideration, I have decided to open both boxes"
 3 stop

 This is what ANY deterministic computer programme (with no added random
 inputs) would boil down to, although millions of lines of code might
 take a
 while to analyse, and the simplest way to find out the answer in
 practice
 might be to run it (but each run would give the same result, so once
 it's
 been run once we can replace it with my simpler version).

 I have to admit I can't see where the paradox is, or why there is any
 interest in discussing it.

  It's probably not a true paradox, but why it seems like one is that
>>> depending on which version of decision theory you use, you can be led to
>>> two
>>> opposite conclusions. About half of people think one-boxing is best, and
>>> the
>>> other half think two-boxing is best, and more often then not, people from
>>> either side think people on the other side are idiots. However, for
>>> whatever
>>> reason, everyone on this list seems to agree one-boxing is best, so you
>>> are
>>> missing out on the interesting discussions that can arise from seeing
>>> people
>>> justify their alternate decision.
>>>
>>> Often two-boxers will say: the predictor's already made his decision,
>>> what
>>> you decide now can't change the past or alter what's already been done.
>>> So
>>> you're just leaving money on the table by not taking both boxes. An
>>> interesting twist one two-boxer told me was: what would you do if both
>>> boxes
>>> were transparent, and how does that additional information change what
>>> the
>>> best choice is?
>>>
>> If both boxes were transparent, that would screw up the oracle's
>> ability to make the prediction, since there would be a feedback from
>> the oracle's attempt at prediction to the subject. The oracle can
>> predict if I'm going to pick head or tails, but the oracle *can't*
>> predict if I'm going to pick heads or tails if he tells me his
>> prediction then waits for me to make a decision.
>>
> Why not?  If the oracle has a complete and accurate simulation of you then
> he can predict your response to what he tells you - it's just that what he
> told you may then no longer be truthful.  Suppose he tells you he predicts
> you'll pick tails, but he actually predicts that after hearing this you'll
> pick heads.  It just means he lied. It's somewhat like the unexpected
> hanging problem, if you reason from the premises given and you reach a
> contradiction then the contradiction was implicit in the premises and no
> valid conclusion follows from them.
>

If the oracle lies then he controls the inputs and can still make a
prediction. The difficulty arises when he tells the truth, which is
effectively what happens with transparent boxes. I think then the answer
for the oracle is then indeterminate since you can always do the opposite
of what he tells you; although a super-oracle outside the system might
still be able to predict what will actually happen.


-- 
Stathis Papaioannou

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options,

Re: real A.I.

2014-12-12 Thread Alberto G. Corona 
The key point is not energy, but power. Political power.



2014-12-12 7:20 GMT+01:00 John Clark :
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, meekerdb  wrote:
>
>
>> > We and other species could no doubt adapt to the much warmer climate of
>> the Carboniferous era - but not in a few hundred years.
>>
>
> When things got super hot life adapted, and we're far more intelligent
> than anything that lived during the Carboniferous and the specialty of
> intelligence is being good at adapting quickly to changing environmental
> conditions.
>
>>
>>  > > Did that revelation come to you in a dream? You know why the Earth
>>> was super cold 450 million years ago and super hot 360 million years ago
>>> and everything in-between since?
>>>
>>>  > No it came to me reading about the Milankovich cycles.
>>
>> Please explain how ether the 21,000 or 26,000 or 41,000 year Milankovitch
> cycle can explain why the Earth was  colder than it's ever been 450
> million years ago and hotter than any time in the last two billion years
> 360 million years ago.
>
>
>> >> No person who doesn't make his living feeding environmental panic says
>>> the global temperature is going to rise 4.5degK anytime soon,
>>>
>>>  > It's the 95% upper confidence bound of the IPCC projection for 2100.
>>
>
> Bureaucratic agencies have a survival instinct, if people thought there
> was no need to be in a environmental panic there would be no reason for a
> agency like the IPCC to exist, and I don't give a damn if they're confident
> I only care if they're correct and predictions about what things will be
> like in 85 years almost never are. For heavens sake that's like demanding
> that the Wright Brothers find a solution to airport congestion; if in 85
> years global warming turns out to be a real problem our toolkit for fixing
> things will be VASTLY larger and more powerful than it is now, and in the
> meantime there are plenty of more important problems that need fixing right
> now.
>
>
>
>> > Bullshit.  You're just making up straw man "environmentalist".  One of
>> my close friends is president of the Sierra Club and he's *for* nuclear
>> power.
>>
>
> We've been down this road before.  I don't know who your mystery friend is
> but I do know that the Sierra Club official website says:
>
> "The Sierra Club remains unequivocally opposed to nuclear energy."
>
> > And even those who are against it only hold that opinion because they
>> think solar and wind can replace oil.
>>
>
> Then they are fools.
>
>   John K Clark
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
Alberto.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.