Re: A short and straight to the point speech of Donald Haffman that the brain does not exist

You certainly demonstrated that you are acting like a disrespectful frustrated teenager that instead of trying to understand what people say, start to make fun of them. My conversation with you ends here. Grow up! On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 02:31:51 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 30, 201

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

Sure I have lots of rational responses. But you have to be intelligent to understand them. Otherwise, what can you say to people that believe objects can become alive just by writing a line of code ? On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 01:06:54 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > And I see that you have no rational re

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Whaaa... so magic happens. Santa Claus has been born! And it was so simple... just add a line of code and pufff... the object becomes alive. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )つ──☆*:・ﾟ On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 00:55:09 UTC+3, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/29/2019 11:35 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: > > > >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

As Donald Hoffman says, to take things seriously doesn't mean to take them literally. You take the tiger seriously because you need to survive, in the same way you don't put the blue folder on your computer screen on the recycle bin. Not because there is actually there a blue folder that get de

Re: for Cosmin

Not at all. As I already told you, for any claim of the form "X exists" (where in this case you assume X is something outside consciousness), "X exists" is actually a thought in consciousness, therefore X doesn't exist since it is just a confabulation of consciousness. More than this, from phen

Re: A short and straight to the point speech of Donald Haffman that the brain does not exist

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 6:11 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > the brain does not exist: > You have certainly demonstrated more than once that is indeed true, some people have no brains. John K Clark > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed t

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 2:58 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > To talk about errors is to have a standard of (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧ OBJECTIVE > REALITY > Yes, reality has a way of informing one about what is objectively true and what is not. If you look at a Saber Toothed Tige

Re: for Cosmin

You're failing to see that consciousness is all we can *know. *You go too far when you claim that it's all that *exists*. On Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 6:42 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > You said by denying my obvious statement that consciousness is al

Re: for Cosmin

You said by denying my obvious statement that consciousness is all there is. On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 01:41:48 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: > > Who says I believe in a physical world? > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To uns

Re: for Cosmin

Who says I believe in a physical world? On Tue, Apr 30, 2019, 6:10 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Then how is the physical world in which you believe manifesting ? > > On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 22:50:08 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Who said

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/30/2019 3:06 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Apr 2019, at 22:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Ok, so how does it appear ? Like this (you're getting kind of dense

Re: A short and straight to the point speech of Donald Haffman that the brain does not exist

*Donald Hoffman. This group should allow editing for at least 5 minutes after posting. On Wednesday, 1 May 2019 01:11:09 UTC+3, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > A short and straight to the point speech of Donald Haffman that the brain > does not exist: > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEXbZ3gIkAE > -

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/30/2019 2:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Apr 2019, at 21:57, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List wrote: On 4/28/2019 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Indexical Digital Mechanism, or simply Mechanism, is the idea that we can survive with an artificial brain. It is the idea that my co

A short and straight to the point speech of Donald Haffman that the brain does not exist

A short and straight to the point speech of Donald Haffman that the brain does not exist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEXbZ3gIkAE -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails f

Re: for Cosmin

Then how is the physical world in which you believe manifesting ? On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 22:50:08 UTC+3, Terren Suydam wrote: > > Who said I believe in physical time? > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

And I see that you have no rational response to any criticism.?? Only "It doesn't exist" and unsupported assertions about what can't be true. Brent On 4/30/2019 12:15 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: Well... if you want to do words-play, you can word-play all day long as you want.

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On 4/29/2019 11:35 PM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: On Monday, 29 April 2019 21:09:01 UTC+3, Brent wrote: Ok, so I will make a 2 line computer program that I will connect to a camera: if (signal == 1) { System.out.println("I see red."); } Does this com

Re: for Cosmin

Who said I believe in physical time? On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 3:03 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > I am curious. Are you aware of Husserl writings about time ? If so, then > how can you believe in the "physical time" when Husserl showed clearly th

Re: for Cosmin

I am curious. Are you aware of Husserl writings about time ? If so, then how can you believe in the "physical time" when Husserl showed clearly that you have extended temporal periods in consciousness outside of the physical time ? And this is because time in consciousness is not a succession of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You are again attacking a strawman. Only because we cannot create everything, it doesn't mean we cannot create anything. Some things are indeed under our controls. On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 20:32:40 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > *> it means you have the ability to create reality.* >> > > Then why

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

To talk about errors is to have a standard of (ﾉ◕*ヮ*◕)ﾉ*:・*ﾟ*✧ OBJECTIVE REALITY ✧*ﾟ*・: **ヽ*(◕*ヮ*◕*ヽ*) on which to refer those errors to. What is the *:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟOBJECTIVE, ABSOLUTE and GOD-GIVEN REALITY**:・*ﾟ* *:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ**:・*ﾟ* behind those evil errors of duck and rabbit ? You

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 1:15 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> > > *> The duck-rabbit image shows a lot of profound things.* > It shows that image identification is a difficult task so it's not difficult to make a ambiguous image, and it shows that both co

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Since I am a holly spirit and you are a lost soul, it is my duty to bring you on the right path. The duck-rabbit image shows a lot of profound things. But since you have no understanding of consciousness whatsoever, you cannot go at this moment in all the depths and beauty that duck-rabbit unve

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:42 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Oh, so now you praise yourself for believing in object permanence ? > Pfff... you are going down with each post. > > Even QM showed by Bell's inequalities that there are no objectiv

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Oh, so now you praise yourself for believing in object permanence ? Pfff... you are going down with each post. Even QM showed by Bell's inequalities that there are no objective properties until measurement. What will be your next move ? Finally coming out as a believer in Santa Claus ? On Tues

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 12:31 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> You are behaving like a 5 years old. * > Maybe, but 5 year olds believe in object permanence but infants younger than 7 months don't and neither do you. John K Clark -- You received this message beca

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You are just showing a collection of pictures that are generated based on certain pre-established rules by human consciousnesses. If computers are so super-duper, why don't you show me a picture with a new colors invented by a computer ? You are so naive that you forget that that system is buil

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

You are behaving like a 5 years old. Pathetic. On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 19:28:08 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:52 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < > everyth...@googlegroups.com > wrote: > > *> All your answers are answered by the duck-rabbit image,* >> > > But you've taught me so mu

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:52 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> All your answers are answered by the duck-rabbit image,* > But you've taught me so much! You've taught me that just like computers and brains the duck-rabbit image does not exist. Sure I can see the duc

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

All your answers are answered by the duck-rabbit image, because it contains the entire manifestation of consciousness, in the same way that the double-slit contains the entire manifestation of QM. So if you don't understand duck-rabbit, you don't understand anything. On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 1

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 11:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' < everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: *> Aren't you going to answer the things about duck-rabbit image ?* > Aren't you going to work up your courage and try to answer all the questions, or even one, that I asked you in my long post? And I alre

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> And since a computer cannot bring anything into existence on its own if you > don't specifically put that information in the database, a computer will > never be conscious. https://www.thispersondoesnotexist.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_antenna Telmo. -- You received this mes

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Aren't you going to answer the things about duck-rabbit image ? You are left with no arguments and instead of accepting the truth, you just go someplace else to preach your religion ? On Tuesday, 30 April 2019 17:54:48 UTC+3, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 5:31 AM Bruno Marchal >

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 5:31 AM Bruno Marchal wrote: *> You* [Cosmin Visan] *need to study what is a digital machine. You need > to read the original paper of Turing,* > Bruno you're wasting your time, Cosmin Visan doesn't think computers exist so he's not going to read a paper about them. And b

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

Maybe if you would stop using words that mean something else, people will actually understand you. Go and take a dictionary and see what "machine" and "number" mean, and them maybe we can talk. What you do is like instead of "eating" you use "dancing" and then you tell people: "I'm hungry, let's

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 30 Apr 2019, at 08:33, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > "Seems" ? To me any affirmation about "matter" seems like religion. You go to far. It is only the Aristotelian conception of matter which has become a dogma for some people, and that is “religion” in the pejorative se

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 29 Apr 2019, at 21:08, cloudver...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 8:41:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 26 Apr 2019, at 22:25, cloud...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 2:04:31 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: >>> Consciousness.

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

> On 29 Apr 2019, at 18:03, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Sun, Apr 21, 2019, at 12:02, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 19 Apr 2019, at 14:09, Telmo Menezes >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, at 09:09, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote:

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

It's simply distinguishing informational/physical semantics from experimental/psychical semantics. - @philipthrift On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 2:15:41 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: > > Well... if you want to do words-play, you can word-play all day long as > you want. I see that AI bel

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Tuesday, April 30, 2019 at 2:13:15 AM UTC-5, telmo wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2019, at 21:08, cloud...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 8:41:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 26 Apr 2019, at 22:25, cloud...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, April 26, 2019 a

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 12:19, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Sorry, if I want to read fairy-tales I read Harry Potter. AI is a rather > boring fairy-tale. You are quick here. Without such justification. You talk like if you knew the truth, which is (provably in the theology of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 18:37, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > That's how existence is: miraculous. I agree that the existence of the natural numbers is miraculous, because we can prove in elementary logic that we cannot derive them from anything simpler and not Turing-equivalen

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 15:23, cloudver...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, April 25, 2019 at 1:18:44 AM UTC-5, stathisp wrote: > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 2:42 pm, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > > wrote: > But it happens all the time. How do you think you move your body if not by

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 11:31, Stathis Papaioannou wrote: > > > > On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 at 16:38, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > wrote: > You are randomly extrapolating. I think this is called "strawman logical > error". Things are not random. Th

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 25 Apr 2019, at 08:40, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > One interpretation might be that consciousness sends its influence from the > future to the past. Which future? Which past? It is unclear what you assume, and what you drive from the assumption. You take conscious

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 28 Apr 2019, at 22:50, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 11:09 AM, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List wrote: >> Ok, so how does it appear ? > > Like this (you're getting kind of dense). > > I agree that to define the qualia red, the ostensive definitio

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 28 Apr 2019, at 21:57, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > wrote: > > > > On 4/28/2019 8:33 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Indexical Digital Mechanism, or simply Mechanism, is the idea that we can >> survive with an artificial brain. It is the idea that my consciousness, or >> my first-

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 27 Apr 2019, at 09:31, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Well, then I invite Bruno to go and claim his Nobel prize, because this is a > knowledge that definitely worths a Nobel prize. My thesis was defended in 1998, and I got the international prize (Prix de la meilleure t

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 12:51, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > Yeah, ok, you seem to know everything. Probably you are God or something. I > cannot take seriously people that know everything. I just said that the second theorem of recursion by Kleene solved Descartes’ problem of

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 26 Apr 2019, at 12:26, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > You're just making a mess of concepts gathered from everywhere. A is like B, > $@#$@ is like 423423, Hampty-Dampty is like Harry Potter. Sorry, there can be > no dialogue with you. You need to study what is a digital

Re: Towards Conscious AI Systems

> On 28 Apr 2019, at 17:47, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > wrote: > > "Brain" doesn't exist. "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. Therefore, > your entire theory is false. That is weird. The fact that the brain does not exist “ontologically” is a consequence of mechanism, so you

Re: Aeon: "AIs should have the same ethical protections as animals"

Well... if you want to do words-play, you can word-play all day long as you want. I see that AI believers are experts in words playing. They endow their toy with all the human capacities in the world and they awe at their live object. Their little puppy is alive, intelligent, smart, beautiful,

Re: My book "I Am" published on amazon

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019, at 21:08, cloudver...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 8:41:18 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 26 Apr 2019, at 22:25, cloud...@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> >> >> On Friday, April 26, 2019 at 2:04:31 AM UTC-5, Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>