Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 13:48, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 8:58:06 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 2:30 AM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >>> *> If we're convinced it's finite in age, then it can't be infinite in >>> spatial extent. AG * >> >> >>

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:50, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:38:57 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:28, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:33:01 AM UTC-7, stathisp wrote:

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:33:01 AM UTC-7, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 13:48, Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 8:58:06 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 2:30 AM Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> *> If we're

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 11:10, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:54:48 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:50, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:38:57 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 3:13:57 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 11:10, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:54:48 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:50, Alan Grayson a >>> écrit :

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:18 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> My hunch, and that's all it is, is that "the substratum" from which the > BB emerged, is infinitely old, and the concept of spatial extent probably > doesn't apply to it. There could be many BB's, possibly an infinite number, > but all

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 4:50 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> The BB is only a singularity as far as GR is concerned, because GR fails > at that point in time.* General Relativity is not the only thing that fails at the singularity, Quantum Mechanics does too. In physics what a "singularity" means is

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 13-01-2020 07:18, Alan Grayson wrote: On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 8:58:06 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 2:30 AM Alan Grayson wrote: _> If we're convinced it's finite in age, then it can't be infinite in spatial extent. AG _ We don't know for sure our universe is

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:24:59 AM UTC-7, smitra wrote: > > On 13-01-2020 07:18, Alan Grayson wrote: > > On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 8:58:06 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > > >> On Thu, Jan 2, 2020 at 2:30 AM Alan Grayson > >> wrote: > >> > >>> _> If we're convinced it's finite

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:28, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:33:01 AM UTC-7, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 13:48, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 8:58:06 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 2,

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 11:21, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 3:13:57 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 11:10, Alan Grayson a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:54:48 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote:

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 20:28, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:33:01 AM UTC-7, stathisp wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 13:48, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, January 12, 2020 at 8:58:06 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 2, 2020

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:54:48 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:50, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:38:57 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:28, Alan Grayson a >>> écrit :

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:38:57 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:28, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:33:01 AM UTC-7, stathisp wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 13:48, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:28:27 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:49 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> Personally, I don't believe in repeats, and I think the proof, if >> there is one, has to do with continuity or uncountability. * > > > General Relativity says

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:20:41 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 2:21 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > *Forget about matter. I am discussing spatial extent. If it starts small, > and expands at any rate less than infinite, its spatial extent cannot be > infinite. AG * > > > But

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 2:21 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: *Forget about matter. I am discussing spatial extent. If it starts small, and expands at any rate less than infinite, its spatial extent cannot be infinite. AG * But so what?  What is "it"?  and what are you worried about?  If "it" is some portion

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:12:36 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 2:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > The model says that a subset of the universe starts small and gets bigger. > This is not inconsistent with the whole universe starting and remaining > infinite in

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:05:50 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > Alan Grayson wrote: > > *> Suppose you're sitting at the origin of a one-dimension space. A line >> 100 meters long will increase 1 meter per unit time if the rate of >> expansion is 1% per unit time. If the line is a 1000

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 2:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: The model says that a subset of the universe starts small and gets bigger. This is not inconsistent with the whole universe starting and remaining infinite in spatial extent.

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 00:25, Alan Grayson *What I am claiming is that the universe beyond what is observable is NOT > infinite in spatial extent. It's finite because it starts out small and has > been expanding for finite time. AG * > The universe could have started off infinite and expanded

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:39:47 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 5:10 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> if our bubble has a finite age and is expanding, it must be finite in >> spatial extent since the expansion rate is finite.* > > > Space would not have to expand

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 6:18:21 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:05 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > * > **infinite spatial extent means that a beam of light will never >> return to its starting point, as it would for a spherical surface. For a >> flat surface, a

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:13 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> the winking out is purely a geometric effect of the expansion.* I have no idea what you mean by that but if something is beyond your observable horizon then nothing you do can have any effect on it and nothing it does can have any effect

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 6:39:02 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:18 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > >> If, as this one does, all the Big Bang's have a finite number of >>> particles and are all of finite spatial extent then there is only a finite >>> number of

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

> On 13 Jan 2020, at 10:54, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:50, Alan Grayson > a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:38:57 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 10:28, Alan Grayson > a écrit : >

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 5:10 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> if our bubble has a finite age and is expanding, it must be finite in > spatial extent since the expansion rate is finite.* Space would not have to expand infinitely fast just faster than light, and that is allowed under General

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:34 AM Alan Grayson wrote: >> if inflation is correct and in the very early universe the distance >> between any 2 points expanded faster than light then they've moved beyond >> their observable horizon and once you've done that you can't go back, so >> even today a beam

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:39:47 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 5:10 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> if our bubble has a finite age and is expanding, it must be finite in >> spatial extent since the expansion rate is finite.* > > > Space would not have to expand

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 3:59:28 AM UTC-7, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 20:28, Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:33:01 AM UTC-7, stathisp wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 at 13:48, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> On

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Alan Grayson wrote: *> Suppose you're sitting at the origin of a one-dimension space. A line > 100 meters long will increase 1 meter per unit time if the rate of > expansion is 1% per unit time. If the line is a 1000 meters long, the end > point moves away 10 meters per unit time, and so forth.

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

Le lun. 13 janv. 2020 à 14:41, Alan Grayson a écrit : > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 6:24:00 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:13 AM Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> *> the winking out is purely a geometric effect of the expansion.* >> >> >> I have no idea what you mean

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:22:15 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 4:50 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> The BB is only a singularity as far as GR is concerned, because GR >> fails at that point in time.* > > > General Relativity is not the only thing that fails at

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:05 AM Alan Grayson wrote: * > **infinite spatial extent means that a beam of light will never return > to its starting point, as it would for a spherical surface. For a flat > surface, a beam in any direction never returns to its starting point. THIS > is what infinite

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:10:07 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:18 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> My hunch, and that's all it is, is that "the substratum" from which the >> BB emerged, is infinitely old, and the concept of spatial extent probably >> doesn't

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 6:24:00 AM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:13 AM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> the winking out is purely a geometric effect of the expansion.* > > > I have no idea what you mean by that but if something is beyond your > observable horizon

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:49 AM Alan Grayson wrote: *> Personally, I don't believe in repeats, and I think the proof, if there > is one, has to do with continuity or uncountability. * General Relativity says there are an infinite number of states in spacetime that something can be in, but

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 8:18 AM Alan Grayson wrote: >> If, as this one does, all the Big Bang's have a finite number of >> particles and are all of finite spatial extent then there is only a finite >> number of ways those particles can be arranged. But if there are a >> infinite number of those

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 2:59:42 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > >> > *They think it's infinite at the beginning but always represent it as very > small at the beginning. That's a great way to communicate. Would you buy a > used car from one of those guys? AG * > One way to

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 12:20:41 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: > > > The inference that the universe is infinite is based on curvature measure > in the part we can see. > > Brent > The universe could be perfectly "flat" and finite in extent. Our galaxy could just be well within the

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 10:51 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:12:36 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 2:10 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: The model says that a subset of the universe starts small and gets bigger. This is not

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:08 PM Alan Grayson wrote: *> There are systems for which the eigen spectrum of possible experimental > outcomes is continuous, thus infinite. AG * > If infinite distances makes you squeamish I don't see how you can consistently embrace infinite outcomes. And besides

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 11:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:20:41 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/13/2020 2:21 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> *Forget about matter. I am discussing spatial

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 07:59, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/13/2020 11:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:20:41 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/13/2020 2:21 AM, Alan

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 11:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:20:41 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 2:21 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: *Forget about matter. I am discussing spatial extent. If it starts small, and expands at any rate less than infinite, its

The Transactional Interpretation of Quantum Theory with Ruth Kastner

*The Transactional Interpretation of Quantum Theory with Ruth Kastner* ( @rekastner ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6NNWdVCQZU *Kastner's Possibilist Transactional Interpretation* The offer wave going out in all directions and the many confirmation waves

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:48:01 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 5:52 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:12:33 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/13/2020 12:59 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 7:50 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:48:01 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 5:52 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:12:33 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 12:59 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 9:28:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 7:50 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:48:01 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/13/2020 5:52 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:12:33 PM

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:12:33 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 12:59 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/13/2020 11:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:20:41 AM

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 12:55:04 PM UTC-7, John Clark wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 1:08 PM Alan Grayson > wrote: > > *> There are systems for which the eigen spectrum of possible experimental >> outcomes is continuous, thus infinite. AG * >> > > If infinite distances makes you

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 5:52 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 5:12:33 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 12:59 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 11:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 12:59 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 11:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:20:41 AM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 2:21 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On 1/13/2020 8:39 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 9:28:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 7:50 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:48:01 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: On 1/13/2020 5:52 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: On

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 3:42:54 PM UTC-7, stathisp wrote: > > > > On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 at 07:59, Alan Grayson > wrote: > >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 1:22:05 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 1/13/2020 11:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 13,

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:06:12 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/13/2020 8:39 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 9:28:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/13/2020 7:50 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 7:48:01 PM

Re: Unhappiness with the universe

On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 11:07:06 PM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 10:06:12 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/13/2020 8:39 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 13, 2020 at 9:28:28 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On