Re: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[John Clark]

On Tue, Sep 18, 2012  Roger Clough  wrote:

>
> > Could those  that beieve in global warming please explain how the earth
> warmed up after each ice age ?
>

Nobody knows for certain. There was a Mega Ice age 2.4 billion years ago
and another one 700 million years ago where the entire oceans froze over,
even at the equator there were hundreds of feet of ice covering the sea.
The most popular theory is that they both ended when huge volcanic
eruptions injected vast amounts of black soot and greenhouse gases into the
air that warmed things up. Interestingly Evolution seemed to take a big
jump right after both Mega Ice Ages ended. Right after the first one
advanced eukaryote cells started to show up, and right after the second we
had the Cambrian Explosion and multicellular lifeforms. Why that should be
is not clear.

  John K Clark

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Re: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Roger Clough]

Could those  that beieve in global warming please
explain how the earth warmed up after each ice age ?


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/18/2012 
"Forever is a long time, especially near the end." -Woody Allen


- Receiving the following content - 
From: John Clark 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-17, 12:41:51
Subject: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over 
thepast 420,000 years


On Sun, Sep 16, 2012? meekerdb  wrote:

?
?> If you adjust the scale of a graph you can always make a gentle rise look 
like a near vertical wall. 

?
> Yes, that's why historical graphs covering hundreds of thousands of years 
> make it appear that CO2 and? temperature changes in the past were as rapid as 
> those over the past 100yrs.
?

To life on Earth a hundred thousand years is the blink of an eye, life is 
nearly 4 billion years old, this graph goes back about 600 million years: 


As I said the Earth has almost always been warmer than it is now, and take a 
look at the lower right hand corner, does that look like a terrifying vertical 
wall to you indicating that all life is about to be boiled to death?? 


> Whether clouds increase or decrease warming depends on how high they are and 
> whether they are on the day side (cooling) or the night side (warming).?

True.? 


> But since they are a feedback effect they can't turn the warming effect of 
> CO2 into net cooling, they can only damp or amplify it.?

Well yeah, if you change something you've either dampened it or amplified it.? 


> Uncertainty about clouds is one of the reasons climate models predict a wide 
> range of temperatures, 

And that is one reason we shouldn't trust those climate models enough to put 
our lives in their hands. And I suppose I should admit that on a list of world 
problems I just wouldn't rank climate change very high, for one thing even if 
it's? happening and caused by humans global warming would probably be a good 
thing on the whole, the climate has always been changing and it's hard to 
believe that the exact temperature the Earth is at now is the perfect 
temperature for Human beings when far more freeze to death than die of heat 
stroke. And even if it is a bad thing most of the cures proposed would be far 
far worse than the disease; crazy green people like to jabber about eliminating 
coal but without coal the economic miracle in China that lifted 400 million 
people out of poverty in just 20 years would have never happened. And even if 
it does cause problems a century from now the best policy would be for us to do 
nothing because our descendents? would have far more powerful tools to solve 
the problem than we do; it would be as if you demanded that the Wright brothers 
solve the problem of airport congestion before they finished their airplane.

But suppose I'm wrong and we need to do something now, is there anything we can 
do other than what the green nuts want and instantly abandon fossil fuels, 
which would cause a world wild economic depression unlike any seen before and 
cause the death of billions? Nathan Myhrvold, the former chief technical 
officer at Microsoft has an idea, he wants to build an artificial volcano. 

Mt. Pinatubo in 1991 became the best studied large volcanic eruption in 
history, it put more sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere than any volcano 
since Krakatoa in 1883. There is no longer any dispute that stratospheric 
sulfur dioxide leads to more diffuse sunlight, a decrease in the ozone layer, 
and a general cooling of the planet. What was astonishing was how little 
stratospheric sulfur dioxide was needed. If you injected it in the arctic where 
it would be about 4 times more effective, about 100,000 tons a year would 
reverse global warming in the northern hemisphere. That works out to 34 gallons 
per minute, a bit more than what a standard garden hose could deliver but much 
less than a fire hose. We already spew out over 200,000,000 tons of sulfur 
dioxide into the atmosphere each year, but all of that is in the lower 
troposphere where it has little or no cooling effect, the additional 100,000 
tons is a drop in the bucket if you're looking at the tonnage, but it's in the 
stratosphere where its vastly more effective.

Myhrvold wasn't suggesting anything as ambitious as a space elevator, just a 
light hose about 2 inches in diameter going up about 18 miles. In one design he 
burns sulfur to make sulfur dioxide, he then liquefies it and injects it into 
the stratosphere with a hose supported every 500 to 1000 feet with helium 
balloons. Myhrvold thinks this design would cost about 150 million dollars to 
build and about 100 million a year to operate. In another design that would 
probably be even cheaper he just slips a sleeve over the smokestack of any 
existing small to midsize coal power plant in the higher latitudes and uses the 
hot exhaust to f

Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Evgenii Rudnyi]

On 16.09.2012 22:11 Stephen P. King said the following:

On 9/16/2012 12:43 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:


...


If you look at Germany, you see that you are not quite right. It is
 better to see this, as usually, a fight for resources between
different interest groups, in this case for example an atomic lobby
 vs. a wind power lobby. Yet, it is hard to refer to the wind power
 lobby as Luddites. It brings many new and interesting scientific
question with, for example look at Smart Grids.

Evgenii -- http://blog.rudnyi.ru


I always try to find a global view that allows me to see the opposing
sides as on an equal footing. I only care about Truth, not political
affiliations.



Then it is unclear to me what you offer to a society. Do you mean that 
you know the Truth?


Evgenii

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Re: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Roger Clough]

Hi meekerdb  

You can argue about numbers until the cows come home,
but what IS clear, plainly and patently clear, 
is that there were no automobiles after 
the last ice age to create CO2 to start warming again. 

Case closed.



Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/17/2012  
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him  
so that everything could function." 
- Receiving the following content -  
From: meekerdb  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-16, 18:28:50 
Subject: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over 
thepast 420,000 years 


On 9/16/2012 1:10 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:  
On 9/16/2012 12:43 PM, John Clark wrote: 

On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, meekerdb  wrote: 



> In fact it [CO2] has been less than half the current level during the last 
> 600 thousand years 

There have been at least 4 times in the last 600 thousand years when the CO2 
levels were nearly as high as they are now.  

Well, if you call 290ppm "nearly as high as" 392ppm. 


And the link between CO2 and temperature is far from clear.  

Of course their correlation might be coincidence. 




During the late Ordovician period 450 million years ago there was a huge amount 
of CO2 in the atmosphere, about 4400 ppm verses 380 today, and yet the world 
was in the grip of a severe ice age.  

Yes, and the Sun was several percent dimmer.  It brightens about 7%/billion-yr. 

During the last 600 million years the atmosphere has almost always had far more 
CO2 than now, abut 3000 ppm on average. The only exception was a period that 
lasted from 315 million years ago to 270 where there was about the same amount 
of CO2 as we have now. The temperature was about the same then as it is now 
too, and during the late Ordovician that I mentioned before it was much colder, 
but other than a few very brief ice ages during the last few million years the 
temperature has always been warmer than now. 


And, as you said, except for the recent few hundred thousand years, the CO2 was 
higher. 




> But it is not just the level that is worrisome, it is the rapidity of 
> increase, which would appear as instantaneous on the paleoclimate studies. 

If you adjust the scale of a graph you can always make a gentle rise look like 
a near vertical wall.  


Yes, that's why historical graphs covering hundreds of thousands of years make 
it appear that CO2 and temperature changes in the past were as rapid as those 
over the past 100yrs. 




 >> And I think people sometimes forget that CO2 is not the most important 
 >> greenhouse gas, water vapor is 

> But water vapor equilibrates with ocean temperature very quickly, whereas CO2 
> takes hundreds of years to come into equilibrium.  Water vapor is the most 
> important green house gas, but it acts as a positive feedback, amplifying 
> other warming (or cooling) effects. 


If water always produced positive feedback then with all the water on this 
planet life would never have existed in the first place, but things are more 
complicated than that. Let me ask you something, if the world's temperature 
increases will that create more clouds or fewer clouds? It's a very simple 
question with profound consequences because clouds regulate the amount of solar 
energy that runs the entire climate show.  

It's even more complicated than that.  Whether clouds increase or decrease 
warming depends on how high they are and whether they are on the day side 
(cooling) or the night side (warming).  But since they are a feedback effect 
they can't turn the warming effect of CO2 into net cooling, they can only damp 
or amplify it.  Uncertainty about clouds is one of the reasons climate models 
predict a wide range of temperatures, from 2.0C to 5.0C, for doubling the CO2 
level. 

Brent 


Increased temperature means more water evaporates from the sea, but it also 
means the atmosphere can hold more water before it is forced to form clouds. So 
who wins this tug of war? Nobody knows, its too complicated. Water vapor is a 
far more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2 and unlike CO2 it undergoes phase 
changes at earthly temperatures, it can be a solid a liquid or a gas which 
makes it much more complicated than CO2 which is always just a gas, at least on 
this planet.

And then there is the important issue of global dimming, the world may be 
getting warmer but it is also getting dimmer. For reasons that are not clearly 
understood but may be related to clouds, at any given temperature it takes 
longer now for water to evaporate than it did 50 years ago. 

  John K Clark 



John, 

Did you see the study of the connection between cloud formation and cosmic 
rays? 



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Stephen 

http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html 
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Re: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Roger Clough]

Hi John Clark 

I suppose then that the cave men ended the last ice age and
began warming the earth again by driving big gas guzzlers.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/17/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
- Receiving the following content - 
From: John Clark 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-16, 12:43:12
Subject: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over 
thepast 420,000 years


On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 1:44 AM, meekerdb  wrote:



> In fact it [CO2] has been less than half the current level during the last 
> 600 thousand years

There have been at least 4 times in the last 600 thousand years when the CO2 
levels were nearly as high as they are now. And the link between CO2 and 
temperature is far from clear. During the late Ordovician period 450 million 
years ago there was a huge amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, about 4400 ppm 
verses 380 today, and yet the world was in the grip of a severe ice age. During 
the last 600 million years the atmosphere has almost always had far more CO2 
than now, abut 3000 ppm on average. The only exception was a period that lasted 
from 315 million years ago to 270 where there was about the same amount of CO2 
as we have now. The temperature was about the same then as it is now too, and 
during the late Ordovician that I mentioned before it was much colder, but 
other than a few very brief ice ages during the last few million years the 
temperature has always been warmer than now.



> But it is not just the level that is worrisome, it is the rapidity of 
> increase, which would appear as instantaneous on the paleoclimate studies.

If you adjust the scale of a graph you can always make a gentle rise look like 
a near vertical wall. 


?>> And I think people sometimes forget that CO2 is not the most important 
greenhouse gas, water vapor is
?
> But water vapor equilibrates with ocean temperature very quickly, whereas CO2 
> takes hundreds of years to come into equilibrium.? Water vapor is the most 
> important green house gas, but it acts as a positive feedback, amplifying 
> other warming (or cooling) effects.

?
If water always produced positive feedback then with all the water on this 
planet life would never have existed in the first place, but things are more 
complicated than that. Let me ask you something, if the world's temperature 
increases will that create more clouds or fewer clouds? It's a very simple 
question with profound consequences because clouds regulate the amount of solar 
energy that runs the entire climate show. Increased temperature means more 
water evaporates from the sea, but it also means the atmosphere can hold more 
water before it is forced to form clouds. So who wins this tug of war? Nobody 
knows, its too complicated. Water vapor is a far more powerful greenhouse gas 
than CO2 and unlike CO2 it undergoes phase changes at earthly temperatures, it 
can be a solid a liquid or a gas which makes it much more complicated than CO2 
which is always just a gas, at least on this planet. ? 

And then there is the important issue of global dimming, the world may be 
getting warmer but it is also getting dimmer. For reasons that are not clearly 
understood but may be related to clouds, at any given temperature it takes 
longer now for water to evaporate than it did 50 years ago.

? John K Clark










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Re: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Roger Clough]

Hi meekerdb  

The CO2 is mostly dissolved in the oceans. The oceans are the vast reservoir 
for CO2. 

When the oceans warm, the solubility of the CO2 becomes less and so is added to 
the atmosphere as a gas. 
When the oceans cool, the CO2 is more soluble in the colder water, and so is 
reabsorbed into the oceans. 

The rest of this is just my speculation. The periodicity of the natural
cycles of warming and cooling, since they do not fit the Mihalovich cycle
very axccurately, would have to have something to do with some
earthly phenomenon. Since the oceans seem to hold all of the cards,
I suggest that the natural periodicity of the cycles of warming/cooling
are a resonant phenomenon associated in some way  to the 
cyclic warming and cooling of the oceans. My suggestion is that
the opposing factor is simply a total energy resonant phenomenon
just like a swinging pendulum. In this concept everything is 
caused by energy resonances of the earth itself,  perhaps north to
south flows, not the sun and not automobiles. The regular periodicity of 
the cooling/heating cycle. If not north to south, perhaps it is somehow
asslociated to the la nina and el nino deep sea phenomena.



Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/17/2012  
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him  
so that everything could function." 
- Receiving the following content -  
From: meekerdb  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-16, 01:44:45 
Subject: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over 
thepast 420,000 years 


On 9/15/2012 9:20 PM, John Clark wrote:  
On Sat, Sep 15 meekerdb  wrote: 



> in the present case there is no mystery about where the CO2 comes from and 
> whether it's a natural cycle - it's us. 


Probably, but I'm not terribly concerned about it, the increase in CO2 over the 
last century is really just a blip; in fact at NO time in the last 600 million 
years has CO2 levels been significantly lower than now  

In fact it has been less than half the current level during the last 600 
thousand years, a time period more relevant to the adaptation of current flora, 
fauna, and agriculture. 



But it is not just the level that is worrisome, it is the rapidity of increase, 
which would appear as instantaneous on the paleoclimate studies. 


and during most of that time it was about 10 times higher than now, sometimes 
closer to 15 or even 20. And yet life thrived.  

But not human life. 


And I think people sometimes forget that CO2 is not the most important 
greenhouse gas, water vapor is. 


But water vapor equilibrates with ocean temperature very quickly, whereas CO2 
takes hundreds of years to come into equilibrium.  Water vapor is the most 
important green house gas, but it acts as a positive feedback, amplifying other 
warming (or cooling) effects. 

Brent

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Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[meekerdb]

On 9/16/2012 1:37 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
It may be too late to do someting about global warming. In the early 1980s we had plenty 
of time to act, today we have to accept at least 2°C temperature rise and hope that will 
not cause big problems, but even that will require taking drastic measures.


You don't need catastrophic effects on the environment to cause or civilization to 
collapse. All that is needed is a prolonged period of bad weather that will cause 
agriculture to fail in a few rich countries. If there are problems in poor countries, 
you can get a local famine, which is bad for the local population, but it isn't going to 
pose a problem for the wider World. If however, agriculture fails in India, China, 
Australia, and Russia, then these countries have enough money to buy themselves out of a 
famine, but then that will cause global food shortages.


Tne US will have to ban grain exports to make sure that not all of its grain gets 
exported away to China, but this will trigger counter measures eventually leading to the 
collapse of the World economy. Basicaly the problem is that if Saudi Arabia can't buy 
grain, why would they sell their oil? 


Because if they don't sell it somebody will take it away from them.  The only reason they 
can sell it now is that the industrialized nations recognized it is cheaper to pretend the 
Saud's own the place and pay them off, than it is to occupy it.


Brent


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Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[smitra]

It may be too late to do someting about global warming. In the early 
1980s we had plenty of time to act, today we have to accept at least 
2°C temperature rise and hope that will not cause big problems, but 
even that will require taking drastic measures.


You don't need catastrophic effects on the environment to cause or 
civilization to collapse. All that is needed is a prolonged period of 
bad weather that will cause agriculture to fail in a few rich 
countries. If there are problems in poor countries, you can get a local 
famine, which is bad for the local population, but it isn't going to 
pose a problem for the wider World. If however, agriculture fails in 
India, China, Australia, and Russia, then these countries have enough 
money to buy themselves out of a famine, but then that will cause 
global food shortages.


Tne US will have to ban grain exports to make sure that not all of its 
grain gets exported away to China, but this will trigger counter 
measures eventually leading to the collapse of the World economy. 
Basicaly the problem is that if Saudi Arabia can't buy grain, why would 
they sell their oil?


Saibal




Citeren "Stephen P. King" :


On 9/16/2012 12:43 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

On 16.09.2012 18:29 Stephen P. King said the following:

On 9/16/2012 8:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THORIUM
REACTORS  BUT THERE ARE MANY DOUBTERS (CERTAINLY GREENIES AMONG
THEM) THAT THEY WOULD WORK. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
 9/16/2012 Leibniz would say, "If
there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could
function."

Hi Roger,

I agree. It is obvious that the "greenies" are just the new
incarnations of Luddites. It is amazing that they have the temerity
to wish all of us into a Stone Age existence while they sit on their
 pillows of comfort and pontificate to us how we need to "save the
Earth". They just want us to accept the serfdom that they wish to
impose upon us.



If you look at Germany, you see that you are not quite right. It is 
better to see this, as usually, a fight for resources between 
different interest groups, in this case for example an atomic lobby 
vs. a wind power lobby. Yet, it is hard to refer to the wind power 
lobby as Luddites. It brings many new and interesting scientific 
question with, for example look at Smart Grids.


Evgenii
--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru

   I always try to find a global view that allows me to see the 
opposing sides as on an equal footing. I only care about Truth, not 
political affiliations.


--
Onward!

Stephen

http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html


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Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Stephen P. King]

On 9/16/2012 12:43 PM, Evgenii Rudnyi wrote:

On 16.09.2012 18:29 Stephen P. King said the following:

On 9/16/2012 8:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THORIUM
REACTORS  BUT THERE ARE MANY DOUBTERS (CERTAINLY GREENIES AMONG
THEM) THAT THEY WOULD WORK. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
 9/16/2012 Leibniz would say, "If
there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could
function."

Hi Roger,

I agree. It is obvious that the "greenies" are just the new
incarnations of Luddites. It is amazing that they have the temerity
to wish all of us into a Stone Age existence while they sit on their
 pillows of comfort and pontificate to us how we need to "save the
Earth". They just want us to accept the serfdom that they wish to
impose upon us.



If you look at Germany, you see that you are not quite right. It is 
better to see this, as usually, a fight for resources between 
different interest groups, in this case for example an atomic lobby 
vs. a wind power lobby. Yet, it is hard to refer to the wind power 
lobby as Luddites. It brings many new and interesting scientific 
question with, for example look at Smart Grids.


Evgenii
--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru

I always try to find a global view that allows me to see the 
opposing sides as on an equal footing. I only care about Truth, not 
political affiliations.


--
Onward!

Stephen

http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html


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Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Evgenii Rudnyi]

On 16.09.2012 18:29 Stephen P. King said the following:

On 9/16/2012 8:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THORIUM
REACTORS  BUT THERE ARE MANY DOUBTERS (CERTAINLY GREENIES AMONG
THEM) THAT THEY WOULD WORK. Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
 9/16/2012 Leibniz would say, "If
there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could
function."

Hi Roger,

I agree. It is obvious that the "greenies" are just the new
incarnations of Luddites. It is amazing that they have the temerity
to wish all of us into a Stone Age existence while they sit on their
 pillows of comfort and pontificate to us how we need to "save the
Earth". They just want us to accept the serfdom that they wish to
impose upon us.



If you look at Germany, you see that you are not quite right. It is 
better to see this, as usually, a fight for resources between different 
interest groups, in this case for example an atomic lobby vs. a wind 
power lobby. Yet, it is hard to refer to the wind power lobby as 
Luddites. It brings many new and interesting scientific question with, 
for example look at Smart Grids.


Evgenii
--
http://blog.rudnyi.ru

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Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Stephen P. King]

On 9/16/2012 8:55 AM, Roger Clough wrote:

Hi Stephen P. King
I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THORIUM REACTORS  BUT
THERE ARE MANY DOUBTERS (CERTAINLY GREENIES AMONG THEM)
THAT THEY WOULD WORK.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/16/2012
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him
so that everything could function."

Hi Roger,

I agree. It is obvious that the "greenies" are just the new 
incarnations of Luddites. It is amazing that they have the temerity to 
wish all of us into a Stone Age existence while they sit on their 
pillows of comfort and pontificate to us how we need to "save the 
Earth". They just want us to accept the serfdom that they wish to impose 
upon us.


--
Onward!

Stephen

http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html

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Re: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Roger Clough]

Hi Stephen P. King 

I ALSO THINK WE SHOULD LOOK INTO THORIUM REACTORS  BUT
THERE ARE MANY DOUBTERS (CERTAINLY GREENIES AMONG THEM) 
THAT THEY WOULD WORK.


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/16/2012 
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him 
so that everything could function."
- Receiving the following content - 
From: Stephen P. King 
Receiver: everything-list 
Time: 2012-09-15, 16:55:58
Subject: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over 
thepast 420,000 years


On 9/15/2012 4:11 PM, meekerdb wrote:

On 9/15/2012 10:36 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: 
On 9/15/2012 9:29 AM, Roger Clough wrote:








Fig.2. Reconstructed global temperature over the past 420,000 years based on 
the Vostok ice core from the Antarctica (Petit et al. 2001). The record spans 
over four glacial periods and five interglacials, including the present. 
The horizontal line indicates the modern temperature. The red square to the 
right indicates the time interval shown in greater detail in the following 
figure.


The diagram above (Fig.2) shows a reconstruction of global temperature based on 
ice core analysis from the Antarctica. The present interglacial period (the 
Holocene) is seen to the right (red square). 
The preceding four interglacials are seen at about 125,000, 280,000, 325,000 
and 415,000 years before now, with much longer glacial periods in between. All 
four previous interglacials are seen to be warmer
 (1-3oC) than the present. The typical length of a glacial period is about 
100,000 years, while an interglacial period typical lasts for about 10-15,000 
years. The present interglacial period has now lasted about 11,600 years.

According to ice core analysis, the atmospheric CO2 concentrations during all 
four prior interglacials never rose above approximately 290 ppm; whereas the 
atmospheric CO2 concentration today stands at nearly 390 ppm. T
he present interglacial is about 2oC colder than the previous interglacial, 
even though the atmospheric CO2 concentration now is about 100 ppm higher. 
-- 

Hi,

Does not this graph strongly suggests a secular periodicity 
Milankovich cycles.  But in the present case there is no mystery about where 
the CO2 comes from and whether it's a natural cycle - it's us.


to global climate variation? If I am reading the graph correctly, we are 
overdue for a glaciation event. Maybe anthropogenic CO2 is just Nature's way of 
forestalling the immanent ice age so that Humanity might evolve beyond the 
bounds of this planet's surface. 

Nature acting by magic, i.e. supernaturally!?


This thought leads me to believe that all that are overly concerned with 
damping human activity are anti-human evolution and we can see this directly in 
the real world consequences of their policy dictates. All of the plans that 
have been advanced to suppress  anthropogenic CO2 are repressive to the human 
condition. "Let us return to the Stone age" we are told by the elites that are 
soo worried about the impending doom of global warming. "Are you insane?", I 
reply.


I'm giving a talk Monday on why we should be building molten-salt thorium 
reactors to replace the burning of fossil fuels for electrical power.

Brent
-- 


I strongly support that project!


-- 
Onward!

Stephen

http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html

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Re: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over thepast 420,000 years

[Roger Clough]

Hi Stephen P. King  

Yes, unless the hockey stick data is true, 
we are on the "verge" of another ice age-- 
plus or minus 10,000 years. 


Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net 
9/16/2012  
Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him  
so that everything could function." 
- Receiving the following content -  
From: Stephen P. King  
Receiver: everything-list  
Time: 2012-09-15, 13:36:21 
Subject: Re: Before the automobile: Reconstructed global temperature over 
thepast 420,000 years 


On 9/15/2012 9:29 AM, Roger Clough wrote: 








Fig.2. Reconstructed global temperature over the past 420,000 years based on 
the Vostok ice core from the Antarctica (Petit et al. 2001). The record spans 
over four glacial periods and five interglacials, including the present.  
The horizontal line indicates the modern temperature. The red square to the 
right indicates the time interval shown in greater detail in the following 
figure. 


The diagram above (Fig.2) shows a reconstruction of global temperature based on 
ice core analysis from the Antarctica. The present interglacial period (the 
Holocene) is seen to the right (red square).  
The preceding four interglacials are seen at about 125,000, 280,000, 325,000 
and 415,000 years before now, with much longer glacial periods in between. All 
four previous interglacials are seen to be warmer 
 (1-3oC) than the present. The typical length of a glacial period is about 
100,000 years, while an interglacial period typical lasts for about 10-15,000 
years. The present interglacial period has now lasted about 11,600 years. 

According to ice core analysis, the atmospheric CO2 concentrations during all 
four prior interglacials never rose above approximately 290 ppm; whereas the 
atmospheric CO2 concentration today stands at nearly 390 ppm. T 
he present interglacial is about 2oC colder than the previous interglacial, 
even though the atmospheric CO2 concentration now is about 100 ppm higher.  
--  

Hi, 

Does not this graph strongly suggests a secular periodicity to global 
climate variation? If I am reading the graph correctly, we are overdue for a 
glaciation event. Maybe anthropogenic CO2 is just Nature's way of forestalling 
the immanent ice age so that Humanity might evolve beyond the bounds of this 
planet's surface. This thought leads me to believe that all that are overly 
concerned with damping human activity are anti-human evolution and we can see 
this directly in the real world consequences of their policy dictates. All of 
the plans that have been advanced to suppress  anthropogenic CO2 are repressive 
to the human condition. "Let us return to the Stone age" we are told by the 
elites that are soo worried about the impending doom of global warming. "Are 
you insane?", I reply. 


--  
Onward! 

Stephen 

http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html

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