date:20130122

From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM in all its 
aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the same way, just under a 
different name

 From: seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:30 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:

  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:

   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:

salyavin:
I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching,
it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity 
like the
Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being
threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation
technique

ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to keep 
the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are 
motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z and 
back unless the give what they teach a different name.

   Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the
   first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits...

  Some are using different names and stay away from using TM-research. That's 
  fine an noone bothers about them. But some are not, and they are simply 
  greedy.

 Why should people stay away from using TM research to promote
 the benefits of learning? As the TMO like to say the research is 
 mostly carried out independently, the results are, like all science, in the 
 public domain to be studied, added to or criticised in the
 hope of gaining greater understanding. That is what science is for.
Well, this is true, especially if the research was funded by a grant of some 
sort. It may be that you are left to try to differentiate your technique as the 
original, or something like that.   But as I said previously, there is the 
technique, and then the context in which it is taught.  That context, or 7 
Step Program ,  definitely has propietary aspects.  On the other hand, your 
independant teacher will likely be offering a very hands on experience.  On the 
other hand, he will likely sponge off all the concepts in the three days 
checking.  That, in my opinion, would be infringement. 
 If you are treating it as an advertising technique then you may get
 fed up when other people reference your work, or in this case
 other peoples work, using your technique. But if they are teaching
 the same thing as you you won't legally have a leg to stand on as
 far as the science goes because the benefits will be the same no matter who 
 teaches it. 

 I'm sure an independent research centre won't care whether the
 meditation techniques they study are official or not or whether
 ono-official meditation teachers reference their work to sell the
 same thing. I'd certainly raise my eyebrows in bemusement at all 
 these lawsuits flying about amongst these relaxed, enlightened
 people

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
 in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
 same way, just under a different name

In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
Do they do the puja?

Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
were any differences, wouldn't you?



 
  From: seventhray27 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:30 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
  
 
 Â  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:
   


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:

 
 salyavin:
 I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching,
 it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity 
 like the
 Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being
 threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation
 technique
 
 ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to 
 keep the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are 
 motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z 
 and back unless the give what they teach a different name.

Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the
first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits...
   
   
   Some are using different names and stay away from using TM-research. 
   That's fine an noone bothers about them. But some are not, and they are 
   simply greedy.
  
  Why should people stay away from using TM research to promote
  the benefits of learning? As the TMO like to say the research is 
  mostly carried out independently, the results are, like all science, in the 
  public domain to be studied, added to or criticised in the
  hope of gaining greater understanding. That is what science is for.
 Well, this is true, especially if the research was funded by a grant of some 
 sort.Â It may be that you are left to try to differentiateÂ your technique as 
 the original, or something like that.Â Â  But as I said previously, there 
 is the technique, and then theÂ context in which it is taught.Â  That 
 context, or 7 Step ProgramÂ , Â definitely has propietary aspects.Â  On the 
 otherÂ hand, your independant teacher will likely be offering a very hands on 
 experience.Â  On the other hand, he will likely sponge off all the concepts 
 in the three days checking.Â  That, in my opinion, would be infringement.Â 
  If you are treating it as an advertising technique then you may get
  fed up when other people reference your work, or in this case
  other peoples work, using your technique. But if they are teaching
  the same thing as you you won't legally have a leg to stand on as
  far as the science goes because the benefits will be the same no matter who 
  teaches it. 
  
  I'm sure an independent research centre won't care whether the
  meditation techniques they study are official or not or whether
  ono-official meditation teachers reference their work to sell the
  same thing. I'd certainly raise my eyebrows in bemusement at all 
  these lawsuits flying about amongst these relaxed, enlightened
  people

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas are too ignorant 
to make such assessments, even non-recertified TM teachers are not able to make 
such assessments. Only legal, recertified authentic and in good standing with 
Bevan, King Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the rajas 
will be able to make such assessments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles


And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked about puja - am 
waiting on her reply






 From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
 in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
 same way, just under a different name

In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
Do they do the puja?

Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
were any differences, wouldn't you?

 
  From: seventhray27 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:30 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 
 
 Â  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:
   


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:

 
 salyavin:
 I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching,
 it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity 
 like the
 Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being
 threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation
 technique
 
 ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to 
 keep the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are 
 motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z 
 and back unless the give what they teach a different name.

Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the
first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits...
   
   
   Some are using different names and stay away from using TM-research. 
   That's fine an noone bothers about them. But some are not, and they are 
   simply greedy.
  
  Why should people stay away from using TM research to promote
  the benefits of learning? As the TMO like to say the research is 
  mostly carried out independently, the results are, like all science, in the 
  public domain to be studied, added to or criticised in the
  hope of gaining greater understanding. That is what science is for.
 Well, this is true, especially if the research was funded by a grant of some 
 sort.Â It may be that you are left to try to differentiateÂ your technique as 
 the original, or something like that.Â Â  But as I said previously, there 
 is the technique, and then theÂ context in which it is taught.Â  That 
 context, or 7 Step ProgramÂ , Â definitely has propietary aspects.Â  On the 
 otherÂ hand, your independant teacher will likely be offering a very hands on 
 experience.Â  On the other hand, he will likely sponge off all the concepts 
 in the three days checking.Â  That, in my opinion, would be infringement.Â 
  If you are treating it as an advertising technique then you may get
  fed up when other people reference your work, or in this case
  other peoples work, using your technique. But if they are teaching
  the same thing as you you won't legally have a leg to stand on as
  far as the science goes because the benefits will be the same no matter who 
  teaches it. 
  
  I'm sure an independent research centre won't care whether the
  meditation techniques they study are official or not or whether
  ono-official meditation teachers reference their work to sell the
  same thing. I'd certainly raise my eyebrows in bemusement at all 
  these lawsuits flying about amongst these relaxed, enlightened
  people

[FairfieldLife] Thom Knowles - Vedic Meditation

Please oh please all of you read this bio of Thom Knowles and see what you 
think - it is mighty interesting and should prove good fodder for all sort of 
views and comments!

http://thomknoles.com/about-thom

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

Oh and if my earlier reply wasn't plain enough - its the same old TM-y stuff 
including rounding, advanced techniques and sidhis packaged under a different 
name and taught by what appears to be another 'I am so wise and enlightened and 
a maharishi guy.





 From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
 in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
 same way, just under a different name

In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
Do they do the puja?

Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
were any differences, wouldn't you?

 
  From: seventhray27 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:30 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 
 
 Â  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:
 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:
  
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:
   


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote:

 
 salyavin:
 I don't know of any who left the TMO to make money out of teaching,
 it was all to do with freedom from the excessive rules and stupidity 
 like the
 Scorpionland debacle. And they are endlessly being
 threatened with legal action. TM must be the most fraught relaxation
 technique
 
 ALL the so-called independents I know do so because they want to 
 keep the initiation-fee for themselves. Without exception. They are 
 motivated by greed and I certainly hope they will be sued from A-Z 
 and back unless the give what they teach a different name.

Um, they already have given it a different name. It was the
first thing they had to do to avoid the lawsuits...
   
   
   Some are using different names and stay away from using TM-research. 
   That's fine an noone bothers about them. But some are not, and they are 
   simply greedy.
  
  Why should people stay away from using TM research to promote
  the benefits of learning? As the TMO like to say the research is 
  mostly carried out independently, the results are, like all science, in the 
  public domain to be studied, added to or criticised in the
  hope of gaining greater understanding. That is what science is for.
 Well, this is true, especially if the research was funded by a grant of some 
 sort.Â It may be that you are left to try to differentiateÂ your technique as 
 the original, or something like that.Â Â  But as I said previously, there 
 is the technique, and then theÂ context in which it is taught.Â  That 
 context, or 7 Step ProgramÂ , Â definitely has propietary aspects.Â  On the 
 otherÂ hand, your independant teacher will likely be offering a very hands on 
 experience.Â  On the other hand, he will likely sponge off all the concepts 
 in the three days checking.Â  That, in my opinion, would be infringement.Â 
  If you are treating it as an advertising technique then you may get
  fed up when other people reference your work, or in this case
  other peoples work, using your technique. But if they are teaching
  the same thing as you you won't legally have a leg to stand on as
  far as the science goes because the benefits will be the same no matter who 
  teaches it. 
  
  I'm sure an independent research centre won't care whether the
  meditation techniques they study are official or not or whether
  ono-official meditation teachers reference their work to sell the
  same thing. I'd certainly raise my eyebrows in bemusement at all 
  these lawsuits flying about amongst these relaxed, enlightened
  people

[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count issues

2013-01-22 Thread Buck

Dear FFL community;
Let us reduce the total number of posts to FFL that people can individually 
post in a week's time to a much smaller number that would be easier for 
everyone to count and keep track of themselves.  Like, five.  That would 
sharpen everyones posts a lot and help a lot to keep the writing germane (or is 
that german) to topic here.  If it were a manageable number like five I would 
volunteer to count people's posts and suspend their memberships when they get 
too post-happy and flood this place with non-related personal posting.  It 
would be good.
-Buck

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley  wrote:

 The post count that showed up last night was from the 19th. I logged into the 
 post count's gmail account, and there was an error message about another post 
 count mail being unable to be delivered:
 
  begin quote 
 
 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com.
 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
 This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
 
 :
 values:[ffl.postcount@...][FairfieldLife][FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
 Pid: 28299 Processing:(mail,us,ffl.postcount@...,FairfieldLife)
 DKIM-Status: Success domain_keys.c@118
 at [addtogs.c:462]
 script=/home/y/libexec/ygp_mail/mail/dosend
 level=E_ERROR
 Reason:
 gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
 loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
 dosend: fatal: gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
 loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
 I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.
 
  end quote 
 
 I have no idea what's going on with yahoo and the post count mails, but the 
 whole post count rule depends on it. There is no way in hell that I'm going 
 to manually count people's posts and keep track of the post count myself, so 
 as far as I'm concerned, if the post counts don't start showing up in a 
 timely manner, the post count rule is toast.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count issues

2013-01-22 Thread Ann



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck  wrote:

 Dear FFL community;
 Let us reduce the total number of posts to FFL that people can individually 
 post in a week's time to a much smaller number that would be easier for 
 everyone to count and keep track of themselves.  Like, five.  That would 
 sharpen everyones posts a lot and help a lot to keep the writing germane (or 
 is that german) to topic here.  If it were a manageable number like five I 
 would volunteer to count people's posts and suspend their memberships when 
 they get too post-happy and flood this place with non-related personal 
 posting.  It would be good.
 -Buck

Ha, ha, ha. Maybe you should just reduce your posts to five. I'll stick with 
50. Or maybe we should all just be limited to 0 posts. That would solve all 
your problems - although it won't get more people to the 'Golden Domes of Pure 
Omniscience and Clear Poops'.
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley  wrote:
 
  The post count that showed up last night was from the 19th. I logged into 
  the post count's gmail account, and there was an error message about 
  another post count mail being unable to be delivered:
  
   begin quote 
  
  Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com.
  I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
  This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
  
  :
  values:[ffl.postcount@][FairfieldLife][FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
  Pid: 28299 Processing:(mail,us,ffl.postcount@,FairfieldLife)
  DKIM-Status: Success domain_keys.c@118
  at [addtogs.c:462]
  script=/home/y/libexec/ygp_mail/mail/dosend
  level=E_ERROR
  Reason:
  gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
  loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
  dosend: fatal: gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
  loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
  I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.
  
   end quote 
  
  I have no idea what's going on with yahoo and the post count mails, but the 
  whole post count rule depends on it. There is no way in hell that I'm going 
  to manually count people's posts and keep track of the post count myself, 
  so as far as I'm concerned, if the post counts don't start showing up in a 
  timely manner, the post count rule is toast.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Light Onto Roots of Illness to John

Hey John, would you be willing to do a jyotish chart for the moment when Obama 
took the oath of office?  I'm thinking with saturn the depositer of the Sun 
being exalted, the second term might actually be better than the first.

 From: John jr_...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:16 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Light Onto Roots of Illness

Perhaps this why gem therapy works.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323968304578249783750566070.html

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

2013-01-22 Thread raunchydog



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@...  wrote:

 Not really - the TM-lite guy needs to stop using a marketing approach that 
 co-ops the TM research. If he does that, the TMO will leave him alone. There 
 was a person in the Bay Area teaching TM, using a different name for the 
 technique, but not assuming any connection to the TMO or research they did, 
 and no problem-o. Had a website and everything.
 

Have to agree, Doc. Knowles didn't pay for the TM research, he stole it, nor 
does he own or have permission to use any of the creative content integral to 
teaching TM: organization,  lectures, checking, seven steps of instruction and 
initiation, Sidhis, etc. TM is uniquely Maharishi's brainchild. TM critics have 
been yelping for years that Maharishi stole TM. Now, here we have a blatant 
thief of creative content and TM critics rush to defend him. Knowles is a thief 
with zero integrity so no one should even believe anything he says that 
whatever it is he is  teaching is actually TM. Knowles is a thief and a fraud.  
 

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  The sides are fighting for customers
  
  That is the essence of it right there.
  
  
  
  
  
   From: Rick Archer 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:56 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
   
  
  Â  
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130120/us-meditation-fight/?utm_hp_ref=styleir=style

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count issues

Poops clear as well as unstinky?!  I must be doing something wrong.  Maybe I 
need to adopt Card's turbo boosting  (-:

 From: Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:54 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Post Count issues

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck  wrote:

 Dear FFL community;
 Let us reduce the total number of posts to FFL that people can individually 
 post in a week's time to a much smaller number that would be easier for 
 everyone to count and keep track of themselves.  Like, five.  That would 
 sharpen everyones posts a lot and help a lot to keep the writing germane (or 
 is that german) to topic here.  If it were a manageable number like five I 
 would volunteer to count people's posts and suspend their memberships when 
 they get too post-happy and flood this place with non-related personal 
 posting.  It would be good.
 -Buck

Ha, ha, ha. Maybe you should just reduce your posts to five. I'll stick with 
50. Or maybe we should all just be limited to 0 posts. That would solve all 
your problems - although it won't get more people to the 'Golden Domes of Pure 
Omniscience and Clear Poops'.

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley  wrote:

  The post count that showed up last night was from the 19th. I logged into 
  the post count's gmail account, and there was an error message about 
  another post count mail being unable to be delivered:

   begin quote 

  Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com.
  I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
  This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

  :
  values:[ffl.postcount@][FairfieldLife][FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
  Pid: 28299 Processing:(mail,us,ffl.postcount@,FairfieldLife)
  DKIM-Status: Success domain_keys.c@118
  at [addtogs.c:462]
  script=/home/y/libexec/ygp_mail/mail/dosend
  level=E_ERROR
  Reason:
  gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
  loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
  dosend: fatal: gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
  loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
  I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

   end quote 

  I have no idea what's going on with yahoo and the post count mails, but the 
  whole post count rule depends on it. There is no way in hell that I'm going 
  to manually count people's posts and keep track of the post count myself, 
  so as far as I'm concerned, if the post counts don't start showing up in a 
  timely manner, the post count rule is toast.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

2013-01-22 Thread salyavin808



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27  wrote:

 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:

 
  On the contrary, I like a bit of competition. The independents all
  charged much less than the TMO and perhaps it was this need to get
  people through the door that forced TMO to lower the price? eventually
  it became almost sensible and if you care about that sort of thing
 
 
 Of course. Competition is good, and it has that effect. Just don't
 infringe on others propietary trademarks or research. But I agree that
 it will be interesting how they sort out the case.
 
 I mean you can essentially make identical sneakers as long as you have a
 different brand. But to piggy back of someone elses research when you
 are using the same technique, just calling it something different-that
 would be interesting.

As I keep saying, most of the research is independently conducted.
Therefore, to reference it in relation to the same meditation
technique isn't anything that anyone, even the TMO, could possibly
get annoyed about.

Even the research that the TMO paid for itself cannot be claimed
as private, science never is. As long as someone is using the same
technique any results will apply equally. It's the TMO that uses
science as an advertising tool and it's one of the best it's got,
unfortunately you can't copyright the results themselves. Much
as people would want to.

The only hope they've got of winning on those grounds is to prove
that the techniques aren't the same. And I'm sure we all know they
are. Maybe they'll be reading out mantras lists in court and how
they are chosen? Can you see that happening? Not really, so it
will come down to trademarks and suchlike though I suppose the TMO could claim 
the teachers swore to always teach within the TMO and
are therefore in breach of contract. But I know one independent
teacher who used the defence that it was the TMO who broke the
contract by tripling the price and therefore putting him out of
business. He still teaches TM but calls it transcendental vedic
mumbling or something, still references research and still thinks
it's going to create a better world. As I always say, it didn't
work for us why do we think it's going to change the world? The
more legal cases there are, the less convincing the whole thing
sounds don't you think?


 
 I guess the angle is, I am teaching this age old meditation technique.
 It is the same technique taught by the TMO. In fact I was trained by MMY
 who founded the TMO. You can look at the research conducted by the TMO
 to see the benefits of this meditation, that is, the same meditation I
 teach. 

That's what they all say and it isn't a lie to say they were
trained by the TMO. The TMO OTOH claims that independent
teachers have changed the technique and you aren't getting the
same thing anymore. Is that true do you think? I suspect not.
The indies I know are just as devoted to Marshy as they always 
were and think they are doing his will by teaching as many as possible. Would 
they risk undermining what they see as someone's birthright by messing with the 
technique? 

I know one guy who held courses for anyone who did TM regardless
of whether they were taught officially he said it was a real pleasure to have 
new meditators who weren't aware of the TMO politics and stupidity and didn't 
spend the whole course moaning about governors and how crap the whole thing was 
and where the money went, or being too terrified to have an opinion about 
anything in case 
they got blacklisted. So maybe the indies have done a lot of people
a big favour in sparing them from movement politics?


Perhaps it will hinge on whether TM was marketed by the TMO as
 an age old technique lost, and brought back by MMY. On the other hand,
 there is the technique, which may be age old, and then the course in
 which it is administered. And certainly that course has propietary
 componets. I would be inclined to come down on the side of the TMO on
 this basis alone.

Proprietary parts of the learning course you mean? I can't think
of anything you could get legal over, probably why they are taking
the attack they are

[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Participating in MahaKumbh improves physical and mental well-being

2013-01-22 Thread Xenophaneros Anartaxius

Thanks for this info. I do have a copy of the reply. I usually write replies in 
a text editor if the reply is long in case Yahoo malfunctions, or I 
accidentally do something stupid like hit the 'Cancel' button. 

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend  wrote:

 It's happened to me once or twice recently, Xeno. More
 often, I've gotten the Cannot retrieve... error message
 when I've hit the Reply button. Usually refreshing a time
 or two gives me the Reply window.
 
 If I'm remembering correctly, when Cannot retrieve...
 has come up when I've tried to *Send* a reply, a refresh
 takes me back to the Reply window, but whatever I've
 written is gone.
 
 It's sporadic and apparently random. There's nothing 
 wrong with the post itself or, most likely, your machine--
 although I *think* this started happening right after I
 installed the latest IE8 update. Not sure, though.
 
 When Yahoo is misbehaving and eating replies, I try to
 remember, right before clicking Send, to copy what I've
 written into Notepad (Windows's text editor). That way if
 the reply disappears into Yahoo's maw, I can give it
 another go instead of having to reconstruct what I wrote.
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend  wrote:
 
  Test: Reply to post #333048
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb  wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:

 Yikes! Then maybe I didn't really understand what Xeno was 
 saying. Xeno, what did you mean? My interpretation was that 
 the placebo effect can enter an individual's system by many 
 avenues, meaning of the individuality: ego, emotions, 
 thoughts, physical imbalances, environmental factors, etc.

And if he did so he is correct.
   
   If that is what he meant, I wouldn't dispute it. I don't think
   he's saying what Barry says below, but he can chime in if he
   wants and clarify.
   
   It's Barry who is trying to mislead you by misrepresenting the
   point I was making, which he has chosen not to address. I've 
   made that point clear in other posts, so I won't go into it
   again. Basically it has to do with discriminating between what
   sorts of activities and results can be said to involve the
   placebo effect and which cannot. Quite obviously it's
   inappropriate to claim, as Barry did, that the results reported
   in the study that began this discussion are a result of the
   placebo effect. It appears that Barry read no more than the
   headline before making his claim.
   
   All of what he writes here is intended to distract attention
   from my point.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Participating in MahaKumbh improves physical and mental well-being

2013-01-22 Thread Xenophaneros Anartaxius

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:

 Yikes! Then maybe I didn't really understand what Xeno was 
 saying. Xeno, what did you mean? My interpretation was that 
 the placebo effect can enter an individual's system by many 
 avenues, meaning of the individuality: ego, emotions, 
 thoughts, physical imbalances, environmental factors, etc.
 
 And if he did so he is correct.
 
 If that is what he meant, I wouldn't dispute it. I don't think
 he's saying what Barry says below, but he can chime in if he
 wants and clarify.
 
 It's Barry who is trying to mislead you by misrepresenting the
 point I was making, which he has chosen not to address. I've 
 made that point clear in other posts, so I won't go into it
 again. Basically it has to do with discriminating between what
 sorts of activities and results can be said to involve the
 placebo effect and which cannot. Quite obviously it's
 inappropriate to claim, as Barry did, that the results reported
 in the study that began this discussion are a result of the
 placebo effect. It appears that Barry read no more than the
 headline before making his claim.
 
 All of what he writes here is intended to distract attention
 from my point.

Strictly speaking, the placebo effect deals with a medically inactive substance 
that is promoted to the patient as a cure for what ails them. We do observe 
what appears to be analogous responses in other venues. I generalised the 
concept. This is what you do in science. A limited effect is observed and 
verified. A scientist then wonders if the effect extends to a wider realm. Thus 
specific observation and induction lead to a general rule in a limited case. 
Extrapolation and induction make the attempt to generalise the concept further. 
While planetary orbits do not at all resemble the world of quantum mechanics, 
the idea that electrons orbit a nucleus of protons and neutrons, once those 
particles identities were well established, allowed further advances in 
knowledge even though electron orbitals proved very unlike gravitationally 
bound planetary orbits. What I was doing was extending the idea of the placebo 
to a generalised 'anticipation response' that presumably would operate on 
similar mental and biological principles by which the body and mind respond to 
a given situation in the context of a strongly held belief, even if that belief 
is total nonsense. In terms of SCI, that religious doctrine in the disguise of 
science, it is a move from point value to infinity.

We see the same idea, analogously, in spirituality. We say that in a world of 
specificity and multiplicity of things and concepts, there is an unbound, 
nonspecific value, which if experienced, will give us more freedom. At first 
that value, if experienced, is very momentary. Eventually, the story goes, it 
becomes more contiguous in time, and eventually subsumes all experiences, a 
path of evolving experience that goes from specific values to a totally 
unspecific quality of experience, in which there is no longer any path of 
progression possible. One of the interesting results of this is people can 
experience life becoming meaningless because the dominant quality of experience 
becomes nonspecific (that is a spiritual trap, but it happens to a lot of 
people). The ultimate meaning of one's life becomes inexpressible. Both 
experientially and intellectually, the move from specific to general results in 
the specificity becoming less meaningful as context expands. At one time the 
electric force and the magnetic force were specific separate realms, until 
Maxwell found a way to show they were the same. Quantum electrodynamics and 
quantum chromodynamics have subsumed these concepts further. If the story is 
ever finished, one only needs know one thing to know the nature of all things, 
and the specific values become uninteresting to argue about.

An 'anticipation response' seems like a general concept that would be valuable 
to investigate. Crooks make use of this placebo analogue to bilk marks. Bernie 
Madoff did this quite well with his Ponzi scheme. Advertising makes use of it. 
You get a person to belive a particular idea, and then the tendency to 
anticipate will flow behaviour in a particular direction. This is how people 
are controlled by what they believe - can't think out of the box. We all fall 
into this. We all have cultural biases we are not even cognizant of that 
fashions our thinking in particular channels, and if we are not aware of them, 
these behavioural rigidities can be used to control us, or even if no external 
forces impinge on us, can subvert our own desires. Conditioning runs deep, and 
even with a lot of experiential unboundedness, it can be hard to break down.

Expansion of experience is kind of like a spiral, investigate specifics, 
generalise, investigate new specifics, then generalise again

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas
 are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified
 TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, 
 recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King
 Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the
 rajas will be able to make such assessments.

Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question,
and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky.

Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to
meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners.

I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not
a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types
of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones.

Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a
first-year medical student and an experienced M.D.
evaluating a patient's condition.

What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the
TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with
regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja
in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a
judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the
TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the
Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed
under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm
talking esoteric here.)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles

Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this
explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm
already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have
the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM
(TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say
it would make any difference if it wasn't.

(I'm turned off by him personally--especially the 
pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but
that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a
regulation TM teacher did it.)

 And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked
 about puja - am waiting on her reply

Great.


 
  From: authfriend 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
  
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
  in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
  same way, just under a different name
 
 In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
 The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
 Do they do the puja?
 
 Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
 actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
 were any differences, wouldn't you?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

Beautifully put, Sal!

 From: salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:09 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seventhray27  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808 wrote:

  On the contrary, I like a bit of competition. The independents all
  charged much less than the TMO and perhaps it was this need to get
  people through the door that forced TMO to lower the price? eventually
  it became almost sensible and if you care about that sort of thing

 Of course. Competition is good, and it has that effect. Just don't
 infringe on others propietary trademarks or research. But I agree that
 it will be interesting how they sort out the case.

 I mean you can essentially make identical sneakers as long as you have a
 different brand. But to piggy back of someone elses research when you
 are using the same technique, just calling it something different-that
 would be interesting.

As I keep saying, most of the research is independently conducted.
Therefore, to reference it in relation to the same meditation
technique isn't anything that anyone, even the TMO, could possibly
get annoyed about.

Even the research that the TMO paid for itself cannot be claimed
as private, science never is. As long as someone is using the same
technique any results will apply equally. It's the TMO that uses
science as an advertising tool and it's one of the best it's got,
unfortunately you can't copyright the results themselves. Much
as people would want to.

The only hope they've got of winning on those grounds is to prove
that the techniques aren't the same. And I'm sure we all know they
are. Maybe they'll be reading out mantras lists in court and how
they are chosen? Can you see that happening? Not really, so it
will come down to trademarks and suchlike though I suppose the TMO could claim 
the teachers swore to always teach within the TMO and
are therefore in breach of contract. But I know one independent
teacher who used the defence that it was the TMO who broke the
contract by tripling the price and therefore putting him out of
business. He still teaches TM but calls it transcendental vedic
mumbling or something, still references research and still thinks
it's going to create a better world. As I always say, it didn't
work for us why do we think it's going to change the world? The
more legal cases there are, the less convincing the whole thing
sounds don't you think?

 I guess the angle is, I am teaching this age old meditation technique.
 It is the same technique taught by the TMO. In fact I was trained by MMY
 who founded the TMO. You can look at the research conducted by the TMO
 to see the benefits of this meditation, that is, the same meditation I
 teach. 

That's what they all say and it isn't a lie to say they were
trained by the TMO. The TMO OTOH claims that independent
teachers have changed the technique and you aren't getting the
same thing anymore. Is that true do you think? I suspect not.
The indies I know are just as devoted to Marshy as they always 
were and think they are doing his will by teaching as many as possible. Would 
they risk undermining what they see as someone's birthright by messing with the 
technique? 

I know one guy who held courses for anyone who did TM regardless
of whether they were taught officially he said it was a real pleasure to have 
new meditators who weren't aware of the TMO politics and stupidity and didn't 
spend the whole course moaning about governors and how crap the whole thing was 
and where the money went, or being too terrified to have an opinion about 
anything in case 
they got blacklisted. So maybe the indies have done a lot of people
a big favour in sparing them from movement politics?

Perhaps it will hinge on whether TM was marketed by the TMO as
 an age old technique lost, and brought back by MMY. On the other hand,
 there is the technique, which may be age old, and then the course in
 which it is administered. And certainly that course has propietary
 componets. I would be inclined to come down on the side of the TMO on
 this basis alone.

Proprietary parts of the learning course you mean? I can't think
of anything you could get legal over, probably why they are taking
the attack they are

[FairfieldLife] Re: Thom Knowles - Vedic Meditation

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Please oh please all of you read this bio of Thom Knowles and
 see what you think - it is mighty interesting and should prove
 good fodder for all sort of views and comments!
 
 http://thomknoles.com/about-thom

He sure has mastered the TMO approach to P.R.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

2013-01-22 Thread feste37

My guess is that he is teaching plain old TM, exactly as it was taught to him, 
but calling it something different. In his bio he sounds rather full of 
himself, and I also think that his wife (if he has one) should tell him to get 
rid of the dreadful straggly beard. (If that was the best I could do for a 
beard, I would shave every day so that no one knew.)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas
  are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified
  TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, 
  recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King
  Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the
  rajas will be able to make such assessments.
 
 Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question,
 and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky.
 
 Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to
 meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners.
 
 I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not
 a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types
 of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones.
 
 Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a
 first-year medical student and an experienced M.D.
 evaluating a patient's condition.
 
 What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the
 TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with
 regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja
 in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a
 judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the
 TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the
 Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed
 under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm
 talking esoteric here.)
 
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles
 
 Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this
 explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm
 already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have
 the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM
 (TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say
 it would make any difference if it wasn't.
 
 (I'm turned off by him personally--especially the 
 pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but
 that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a
 regulation TM teacher did it.)
 
  And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked
  about puja - am waiting on her reply
 
 Great.
 
 
  
   From: authfriend 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks 
  harmony
   
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
  
   From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
   in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
   same way, just under a different name
  
  In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
  The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
  Do they do the puja?
  
  Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
  actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
  were any differences, wouldn't you?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

I think Salyavin addressed all these issues better than I can - but reading the 
Thom Knowles bio is very revealing to me.

And the whole thing really challenges the TMO to an opportunity to either come 
out of the closet or be honest for a change.

Meaning - if all or most of the scientific research has been truly conducted 
by non-TM practicing independent researchers on the mantra practice we cal TM, 
and Knowles and his teachers teach the same mantras, taught in exactly the same 
way, then the research applies to Vedic meditation too.

If the three days checking, puja and so forth are part of the Holy Tradition 
that Marshy got from his Guru Dev, then it really can't be trademarked or 
copyrighted. If on the other hand, it is something that M made up, then it can 
be copyrighted and trademarked and proves that the Big M was a liar.

And so on and so forth with regards to rounding course which the Vedic 
meditation teachers also offer, sidhis instruction and so on - so I bet it will 
be interesting to see what the outcome of the legal deal will be.

I have never met Thom, but from his video and his advertising materials he 
seems to fit the profile that I have mentioned here on FFL before - that a some 
of the former TM teachers who strike out on their own set themselves up as 
little Maharishis  - Knowles in fact calls himself Maharishi - wonder if Rick 
will interview him on BATGAP?





 From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:14 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas
 are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified
 TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, 
 recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King
 Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the
 rajas will be able to make such assessments.

Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question,
and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky.

Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to
meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners.

I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not
a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types
of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones.

Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a
first-year medical student and an experienced M.D.
evaluating a patient's condition.

What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the
TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with
regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja
in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a
judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the
TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the
Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed
under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm
talking esoteric here.)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles

Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this
explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm
already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have
the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM
(TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say
it would make any difference if it wasn't.

(I'm turned off by him personally--especially the 
pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but
that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a
regulation TM teacher did it.)

 And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked
 about puja - am waiting on her reply

Great.

 
  From: authfriend 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
  in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
  same way, just under a different name
 
 In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
 The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
 Do they do the puja?
 
 Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
 actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
 were any differences, wouldn't you?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

Looks as good as Marshys

 From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:22 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

My guess is that he is teaching plain old TM, exactly as it was taught to him, 
but calling it something different. In his bio he sounds rather full of 
himself, and I also think that his wife (if he has one) should tell him to get 
rid of the dreadful straggly beard. (If that was the best I could do for a 
beard, I would shave every day so that no one knew.)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

  Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas
  are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified
  TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, 
  recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King
  Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the
  rajas will be able to make such assessments.

 Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question,
 and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky.

 Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to
 meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners.

 I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not
 a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types
 of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones.

 Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a
 first-year medical student and an experienced M.D.
 evaluating a patient's condition.

 What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the
 TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with
 regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja
 in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a
 judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the
 TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the
 Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed
 under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm
 talking esoteric here.)

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles

 Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this
 explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm
 already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have
 the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM
 (TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say
 it would make any difference if it wasn't.

 (I'm turned off by him personally--especially the 
 pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but
 that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a
 regulation TM teacher did it.)

  And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked
  about puja - am waiting on her reply

 Great.

   From: authfriend 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks 
  harmony

  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

   From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
   in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
   same way, just under a different name

  In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
  The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
  Do they do the puja?

  Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
  actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
  were any differences, wouldn't you?

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

I agree with Judy, Michael, it is a reasonable question.  Only a recertified 
gov would know if all of Thom's procedures, checking, etc. are the same as the 
TMOs.  These I think should be covered by copyright if they aren't already.  
But I also think that the research should be considered in the public domain.  
Otherwise what a kafufel to sort out what was paid for by government grant and 
which wasn't.

I also think it's a good point about maintaining the connection to the Holy 
Tradition.  Since I'm not a gov I'm not sure how that is maintained or lost or 
if the latter is even possible.    


Anyway, Michael, I did read the info you posted about Thom.  I've heard of 
others who have taken a similar path.  I've heard positive results from such.  
But I'm staying with the one who brung me (-:    




 From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:14 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas
 are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified
 TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, 
 recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King
 Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the
 rajas will be able to make such assessments.

Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question,
and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky.

Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to
meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners.

I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not
a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types
of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones.

Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a
first-year medical student and an experienced M.D.
evaluating a patient's condition.

What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the
TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with
regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja
in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a
judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the
TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the
Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed
under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm
talking esoteric here.)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles

Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this
explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm
already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have
the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM
(TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say
it would make any difference if it wasn't.

(I'm turned off by him personally--especially the 
pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but
that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a
regulation TM teacher did it.)

 And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked
 about puja - am waiting on her reply

Great.

 
  From: authfriend 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
  in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
  same way, just under a different name
 
 In what way have you looked at it, Michael, if I may ask?
 The Web site isn't that informative about how it's taught.
 Do they do the puja?
 
 Seems to me you'd have to be a regulation TM teacher and
 actually take the courses to know for sure whether there
 were any differences, wouldn't you?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 I think Salyavin addressed all these issues better than I can

He more or less *raised* the issue I was asking about
(I can't think of anything you could get legal over)
but didn't really address it.

He also said the independent teachers he knows are all
gung-ho True Believers and therefore he wouldn't expect
them not to adhere strictly to how Maharishi prescribed
that TM be taught.

The point is, though, that you are *guaranteed* that you
are learning TM as taught by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi if you
learn from a TMO TM teacher (because the TMO won't allow
any variations), but you can't get that guarantee from an
independent; you have to take it on faith.

 - but reading the Thom Knowles bio is very revealing to me.
 
 And the whole thing really challenges the TMO to an opportunity
 to either come out of the closet or be honest for a change.
 
 Meaning - if all or most of the scientific research has been
 truly conducted by non-TM practicing independent researchers on
 the mantra practice we cal TM, and Knowles and his teachers
 teach the same mantras, taught in exactly the same way, then
 the research applies to Vedic meditation too.

The vast majority of independent researchers are TM
practitioners. They're independent only in the sense
that they aren't officially working for the TMO. It's
one of my pet peeves about how the TMO describes the
research. Not sure whether or how that affects your
point, though.

 If the three days checking, puja and so forth are part of the
 Holy Tradition that Marshy got from his Guru Dev, then it
 really can't be trademarked or copyrighted. If on the other
 hand, it is something that M made up, then it can be
 copyrighted and trademarked and proves that the Big M was a
 liar.

I don't think Maharishi ever said he got the three days'
checking, puja, and so forth from Guru Dev, did he? He
didn't even get the TM technique from Guru Dev, at least
according to Larry Domash's introductory essay to the
Collected Papers, which surely had to have Maharishi's
imprimateur.

What he got from Guru Dev, as I understand it, were the
basic principle of maximum naturalness and the knowledge
of how consciousness works--and Maharishi extrapolated
the technique and the various procedures from those. He
claimed he had reconstructed the original meditation
technique as it was practiced back in the day--WY
back in the day.

Of course that can neither be proved nor disproved, so
I don't know where it leaves you.

 And so on and so forth with regards to rounding course which
 the Vedic meditation teachers also offer, sidhis instruction
 and so on - so I bet it will be interesting to see what the
 outcome of the legal deal will be.
 
 I have never met Thom, but from his video and his advertising
 materials he seems to fit the profile that I have mentioned
 here on FFL before - that a some of the former TM teachers
 who strike out on their own set themselves up as little 
 Maharishis

Boy, does he ever.

 Knowles in fact calls himself Maharishi - wonder if Rick will 
 interview him on BATGAP?

That would be VERY interesting. I'd be willing to bet Knowles
wouldn't agree to be interviewed. If anybody could ferret out
any, shall we say, imperfections in Knowles's story, it would
be Rick. Whether Rick would want to do such ferreting is
another question.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

2013-01-22 Thread doctordumbass

Interesting way to look at it - the creative content. Yeah, agreed, and the guy 
is biting off way more than he can chew, teaching the Sidhis. Plus he spells 
his first name, Thom, instead of Tom, or Thomas, which is really a turn-off 
for me, personally.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog  wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, doctordumbass@  wrote:
 
  Not really - the TM-lite guy needs to stop using a marketing approach that 
  co-ops the TM research. If he does that, the TMO will leave him alone. 
  There was a person in the Bay Area teaching TM, using a different name for 
  the technique, but not assuming any connection to the TMO or research they 
  did, and no problem-o. Had a website and everything.
  
 
 Have to agree, Doc. Knowles didn't pay for the TM research, he stole it, nor 
 does he own or have permission to use any of the creative content integral to 
 teaching TM: organization,  lectures, checking, seven steps of instruction 
 and initiation, Sidhis, etc. TM is uniquely Maharishi's brainchild. TM 
 critics have been yelping for years that Maharishi stole TM. Now, here we 
 have a blatant thief of creative content and TM critics rush to defend him. 
 Knowles is a thief with zero integrity so no one should even believe anything 
 he says that whatever it is he is  teaching is actually TM. Knowles is a 
 thief and a fraud.   
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
  
   The sides are fighting for customers
   
   That is the essence of it right there.
   
   
   
   
   
From: Rick Archer 
   To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
   Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 10:56 AM
   Subject: [FairfieldLife] Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

   
   Â  
   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130120/us-meditation-fight/?utm_hp_ref=styleir=style

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

Are you saying the non-recertified Governors wouldn't have the expertise to 
know???

And the only definitive way for you and Judy to be satisfied would be for a 
recertified governor to take the Vedic meditation course itself to be really 
sure and in what universe is that gonna happen - so I will re-iterate that it 
certainly appears that they are teaching exactly the same thing.

On second thought, people who used to teach TM and now teach Vedic Meditation 
would be in a position to know, but unless they were recertified governors I 
guess it would not count for reasons I cannot fathom.

I will point out, not that it is definitive proof, that Thom Knowles on his bio 
says point blank thatHe learned 
Vedic Meditation from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who became Thom’s personal 
mentor and his predominant spiritual and educational influence over the 
next two decades.
He also claims to have played a key role in teaching meditation in the 
Philippines - how bout it? Anyone here on FFL who was part of the Philippines 
project remember him?





 From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks 
harmony
 

  
I agree with Judy, Michael, it is a reasonable question.  Only a recertified 
gov would know if all of Thom's procedures, checking, etc. are the same as the 
TMOs.  These I think should be covered by copyright if they aren't already.  
But I also think that the research should be considered in the public domain.  
Otherwise what a kafufel to sort out what was paid for by government grant and 
which wasn't.

I also think it's a good point about maintaining the connection to the Holy 
Tradition.  Since I'm not a gov I'm not sure how that is maintained or lost or 
if the latter is even possible.    


Anyway, Michael, I did read the info you posted about Thom.  I've heard of 
others who have taken a similar path.  I've heard positive results from such.  
But I'm staying with the one who brung me (-:    




 From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:14 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas
 are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified
 TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, 
 recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King
 Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the
 rajas will be able to make such assessments.

Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question,
and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky.

Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to
meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners.

I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not
a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types
of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones.

Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a
first-year medical student and an experienced M.D.
evaluating a patient's condition.

What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the
TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with
regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja
in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a
judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the
TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the
Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed
under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm
talking esoteric here.)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles

Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this
explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm
already very familiar with what it's describing. I do have
the sense it's not presented quite as it would be in the TM
(TMO) context, but I'm not really sure, nor could I say
it would make any difference if it wasn't.

(I'm turned off by him personally--especially the 
pretentiousness of his trilling the R in mantra--but
that's just me. I'd find it just as annoying if a
regulation TM teacher did it.)

 And I e-mailed one of the Vedic Meditation teachers and asked
 about puja - am waiting on her reply

Great.

 
  From: authfriend 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:55 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  From what I have looked at the Vedic Meditation is exactly TM
  in all its aspects including the Sidhi programme, taught the
  same way, just under a different name
 
 In

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Participating in MahaKumbh improves physical and mental well-being

Xeno wrote:  We all have cultural biases we are not even cognizant of that 
fashions 
our thinking in particular channels, and if we are not aware of them, 
these behavioural rigidities can be used to control us, or even if no 
external forces impinge on us, can subvert our own desires. 
Share asks:  Is it even possible for there to be no external forces impinging 
upon us?  Are there even forces external or internal?   

Xeno also wrote:  Conditioning
 runs deep, and even with a lot of experiential unboundedness, it can be
 hard to break down.

Share comments:  I saw this in the workshop on Sunday.  In the afternoon we did 
an exercise about our requirements for friendship and partnership.  People did 
not want to neutralize those even though at that point everyone had experienced 
many times how much more freedom there was after neutralizing.  I'd say fear is 
the main factor in this situation.




 From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:13 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Study: Participating in MahaKumbh improves 
physical and mental well-being
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:

 Yikes! Then maybe I didn't really understand what Xeno was 
 saying. Xeno, what did you mean? My interpretation was that 
 the placebo effect can enter an individual's system by many 
 avenues, meaning of the individuality: ego, emotions, 
 thoughts, physical imbalances, environmental factors, etc.
 
 And if he did so he is correct.
 
 If that is what he meant, I wouldn't dispute it. I don't think
 he's saying what Barry says below, but he can chime in if he
 wants and clarify.
 
 It's Barry who is trying to mislead you by misrepresenting the
 point I was making, which he has chosen not to address. I've 
 made that point clear in other posts, so I won't go into it
 again. Basically it has to do with discriminating between what
 sorts of activities and results can be said to involve the
 placebo effect and which cannot. Quite obviously it's
 inappropriate to claim, as Barry did, that the results reported
 in the study that began this discussion are a result of the
 placebo effect. It appears that Barry read no more than the
 headline before making his claim.
 
 All of what he writes here is intended to distract attention
 from my point.

Strictly speaking, the placebo effect deals with a medically inactive substance 
that is promoted to the patient as a cure for what ails them. We do observe 
what appears to be analogous responses in other venues. I generalised the 
concept. This is what you do in science. A limited effect is observed and 
verified. A scientist then wonders if the effect extends to a wider realm. Thus 
specific observation and induction lead to a general rule in a limited case. 
Extrapolation and induction make the attempt to generalise the concept further. 
While planetary orbits do not at all resemble the world of quantum mechanics, 
the idea that electrons orbit a nucleus of protons and neutrons, once those 
particles identities were well established, allowed further advances in 
knowledge even though electron orbitals proved very unlike gravitationally 
bound planetary orbits. What I was doing was extending the idea of the placebo 
to a generalised 'anticipation response' that
 presumably would operate on similar mental and biological principles by which 
the body and mind respond to a given situation in the context of a strongly 
held belief, even if that belief is total nonsense. In terms of SCI, that 
religious doctrine in the disguise of science, it is a move from point value to 
infinity.

We see the same idea, analogously, in spirituality. We say that in a world of 
specificity and multiplicity of things and concepts, there is an unbound, 
nonspecific value, which if experienced, will give us more freedom. At first 
that value, if experienced, is very momentary. Eventually, the story goes, it 
becomes more contiguous in time, and eventually subsumes all experiences, a 
path of evolving experience that goes from specific values to a totally 
unspecific quality of experience, in which there is no longer any path of 
progression possible. One of the interesting results of this is people can 
experience life becoming meaningless because the dominant quality of experience 
becomes nonspecific (that is a spiritual trap, but it happens to a lot of 
people). The ultimate meaning of one's life becomes inexpressible. Both 
experientially and intellectually, the move from specific to general results in 
the specificity becoming less meaningful as context
 expands. At one time the electric force and the magnetic force were specific 
separate realms, until Maxwell found a way to show they were the same. Quantum 
electrodynamics and quantum chromodynamics have

[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Are you saying the non-recertified Governors wouldn't have the 
 expertise to know???

Only recertified governors would know whether what Knowles
is teaching is exactly the same as what recertified
governors were certified to teach--i.e., if recertification
involved any changes prescribed by Maharishi from how TM
was taught previously.

Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, I have no idea. I wouldn't
put it past Maharishi, however, to have introduced some
changes *in anticipation of what's going on now with the
legal challenge to independents*. If the independents
hadn't themselves been recertified, they wouldn't know
about the changes and could therefore be shown not to
be teaching TM a la Maharishi when the issue arose.

(I've always thought the whole recertification business
and the rajas business were designed by Maharishi to
weed out the less-than-totally-committed because he knew
he wouldn't be around much longer and wanted to hand
over the tightest possible ship to his successor, knowing
that when he was gone it would be difficult to keep the
movement from splintering.)

 And the only definitive way for you and Judy to be satisfied
 would be for a recertified governor to take the Vedic
 meditation course itself to be really sure and in what
 universe is that gonna happen

If the TMO thought that would help its legal case, it could
very well happen.

BTW, satisfied doesn't mean quite what you're assuming
where I'm concerned. I'm a long-term practitioner but not
a TB in that sense. For me it's more a matter of
intellectual curiosity; I don't really have a dog in the
fight. 





 - so I will re-iterate that it certainly appears that they are teaching 
exactly the same thing.
 
 On second thought, people who used to teach TM and now teach Vedic Meditation 
 would be in a position to know, but unless they were recertified governors I 
 guess it would not count for reasons I cannot fathom.
 
 I will point out, not that it is definitive proof, that Thom Knowles on his 
 bio says point blank thatHe learned 
 Vedic Meditation from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who became Thomâs personal 
 mentor and his predominant spiritual and educational influence over the 
 next two decades.
 He also claims to have played a key role in teaching meditation in the 
 Philippines - how bout it? Anyone here on FFL who was part of the Philippines 
 project remember him?
 
 
  From: Share Long 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  
 Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:36 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks 
 harmony
  
 
 Â  
 I agree with Judy, Michael, it is a reasonable question.Â  Only a recertified 
 gov would know if all of Thom's procedures, checking, etc. are the same as 
 the TMOs.Â  These I think should be covered by copyright if they aren't 
 already.Â  But I also think that the research should be considered in the 
 public domain.Â  Otherwise what a kafufel to sort out what was paid for by 
 government grant and which wasn't.
 
 I also think it's a good point about maintaining the connection to the Holy 
 Tradition.Â  Since I'm not a gov I'm not sure how that is maintained or lost 
 or if the latter is even possible. Â Â  
 
 
 Anyway, Michael, I did read the info you posted about Thom.Â  I've heard of 
 others who have taken a similar path.Â  I've heard positive results from 
 such.Â  But I'm staying with the one who brung me (-:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

I'm not a gov recertified or otherwise but I'm assuming that govs learn up to 
date knowledge on recert course.  Because non recertified govs are not supposed 
to teach.  Oh and I do remember that even back in the day, there were additions 
etc to checking notes.  Yep, personally I'd stick with a recert gov, even for 
checking.  Does this answer your questions? 

I don't speak for anyone other than myself but you're right.  Probably a recert 
gov won't be taking Thom's programs.  Nonetheless I do think all the procedures 
that Maharishi created should be protected by copyright.      


I bet there are those here who knew Thom personally.




 From: Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks 
harmony
 

  
Are you saying the non-recertified Governors wouldn't have the expertise to 
know???

And the only definitive way for you and Judy to be satisfied would be for a 
recertified governor to take the Vedic meditation course itself to be really 
sure and in what universe is that gonna happen - so I will re-iterate that it 
certainly appears that they are teaching exactly the same thing.

On second thought, people who used to teach TM and now teach Vedic Meditation 
would be in a position to know, but unless they were recertified governors I 
guess it would not count for reasons I cannot fathom.

I will point out, not that it is definitive proof, that Thom Knowles on his bio 
says point blank thatHe learned 
Vedic Meditation from Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who became Thom’s personal 
mentor and his predominant spiritual and educational influence over the 
next two decades.
He also claims to have played a key role in teaching meditation in the 
Philippines - how bout it? Anyone here on FFL who was part of the Philippines 
project remember him?





 From: Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks 
harmony
 

  
I agree with Judy, Michael, it is a reasonable question.  Only a recertified 
gov would know if all of Thom's procedures, checking, etc. are the same as the 
TMOs.  These I think should be covered by copyright if they aren't already.  
But I also think that the research should be considered in the public domain.  
Otherwise what a kafufel to sort out what was paid for by government grant and 
which wasn't.

I also think it's a good point about maintaining the connection to the Holy 
Tradition.  Since I'm not a gov I'm not sure how that is maintained or lost or 
if the latter is even possible.    


Anyway, Michael, I did read the info you posted about Thom.  I've heard of 
others who have taken a similar path.  I've heard positive results from such.  
But I'm staying with the one who brung me (-:    




 From: authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 9:14 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Yes you are right - ignorant plain old meditators and sidhas
 are too ignorant to make such assessments, even non-recertified
 TM teachers are not able to make such assessments. Only legal, 
 recertified authentic and in good standing with Bevan, King
 Tony and of course the illustrious Neal Patterson and all the
 rajas will be able to make such assessments.

Oh, come on, Michael, it's a perfectly reasonable question,
and I asked it politely. There's no need to get snarky.

Plus which, the folks who would actually be learning how to
meditate from the course wouldn't even be TM practitioners.

I'm a long-term practitioner of TM and the TM-Sidhis but not
a TM teacher, and while I could certainly spot many types
of differences, I'm not sure I'd notice subtle ones.

Seems to me it's akin to the difference between, say, a
first-year medical student and an experienced M.D.
evaluating a patient's condition.

What inspired my question was that I was wondering how the
TMO would make its legal case if there were differences with
regard to some of the more esoteric aspects of TM, the puja
in particular, that the TMO felt were significant but that a
judge would simply snort at. E.g., could there be, in the
TMO's mind, some interference with the purported link to the
Holy Tradition established by the puja if it wasn't performed
under MMY's auspices? (Yes, I know he's dead and all. I'm
talking esoteric here.)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNy-SWJ4G-U - video of Thom Knowles

Well, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this
explanation in terms of principles, but then of course I'm
already very familiar with what it's

[FairfieldLife] Re: dear everyone on FFL to Obbajee

2013-01-22 Thread obbajeeba

Meet in Rahu, marry in Guru?  Sounds like a good idea. I think for some?
Jack Daniels?  LOL

Some charts do not follow the Guru Rule of marriage. :)

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ann  wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:
 
  Oy!Â  I checked the ephemeris for the last time Rahu transited Ketu and 
  vice versa.Â  A relationship that lasted 15 years began.Â  And I changed my 
  dissertation advisor.Â  Not in PhD program now but funnily enough, I have 
  been thinking about going back to school.Â  Fortunately that moment of 
  silliness came and went.Â  As for relationship, you know what they say:Â  
  meet in Rahu and get married in Guru.Â  I'm in Mars Merc Rahu now (-:
  
  With the Paul Wong neutralizing process I think it's more like 18 seconds 
  than 18 years.Â  Yay!
 
 Yay! is right. I just found out that placebo last entered shoebox at 
 Kundalini and whammo, I was fixed. But then suddenly I realized that the 
 imminent movement of cunnilingus towards Katmandu indicated disaster if I 
 kept moving in that direction. Hence, I switched tracks, looked up and 
 discovered Mahatma just left the celestial realms and Jack Daniels had taken 
 its place. Phew, that was close, I thought I might have been a goner until I 
 got a phone call from Muppity Muppity who was in the process of fixing my 
 left knee and setting up a city of lights over Victoria. What a day! Yay!!
  
  
  
  
   From: obbajeeba 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:06 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: dear everyone on FFL
   
  
  Â  
  I like nasty. Why do you think I like Ravi? I like Turq and Bob, oh I love 
  Bob's of different variations, and Robin and Emily and Author  and all the 
  rest, including in his own category of wanting very young girls, Nabby. 
  Alex and the Budha at the pump dude, Richard, with time and wording 
  everyone of us can be turned around and why does anyone mind if anyone has 
  opinion? Rahu and Ketu change their meany times tomorrow morning, even 
  though they already changed in their true time, things will either get 
  better or worse and judging by my week??? I think it is going to get better 
  for me. Absolutely. It took the wild west draws and bar room brawls and 
  saloon girls to make me see, even the most seemingly dissolution in 
  behavior, can lead to enlightenment and even speed it up. If Share long 
  takes a bit longer, well, 18 years coming at you this day. Hope you fine 
  the Happy Place. 
  I love everyone on this board, and it is most fun to make fun of funny 
  burger king hats, even though I like the practice that lead before all of 
  that. hahaha. Off to the love gallery. See you all later. oxo -Obba 
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula  wrote:
  
   Ditto this - dear Share, a really clueless, crazy post and..You and I
   never began anew, and even if we had, this post of yours would have put us
   right back where we were.
   
   On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:30 AM, authfriend  wrote:
   
**
   
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote:

 During my Christmas vacation I realized that if I'm lucky, I have 
 about
30 more years on this planet.  I intend to use that time as juicily and
joyfully as possible, and hopefully at the exact same time add to or at
least support the enjoyment of others.

 As part of this, and perhaps some of you have noticed, I've decided to
not reply to certain kinds of posts to me.  I have felt so much better
since beginning to do this.  And FFL has seemed more fun too.

 As far as I'm concerned the new year is the time to begin anew
 and to drop conflicts from the past year.  I'm so grateful
 because it seems that Judy and Ravi and I have begun anew.
   
Sorry to disappoint, toots. You and I never began anew,
and even if we had, this post of yours would have put us
right back where we were.
   
You're not the least bit interested in dropping conflicts
from the past year. Rather, you're intent on keeping them
going.
   
If you don't understand why I say that, show your post to
your pastoral counselor. Maybe she will have the patience
to explain it to you. I don't.
   
Love and hugs indeed. Dig yourself, Share.
   
   
 Maybe Raunchy and I a little bit too.  I hope so.

 But Ann and Emily have continued at just about every opportunity to
snipe nastily at me.  They continue to have a confrontational tone 
towards
me, even on the most mundane of topics.  Weird!  Plus they ignore it 
when I
do post a positive reply to them.


 You would think that Ann with her full life and Emily with her running
out of money situation would have better things to do with their time 
and
energy and attention than to nastily carry a grudge against me into the 
new
year.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Thom Knowles - Vedic Meditation

2013-01-22 Thread salyavin808



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:

 Please oh please all of you read this bio of Thom Knowles and see what you 
 think - it is mighty interesting and should prove good fodder for all sort of 
 views and comments!
 
 http://thomknoles.com/about-thom



He's really got the self aggrandizing BS down to a fine art,
probably all that time with Marshy rubbed off on him.

Love the fact he calls himself a maharishi (but why no capital?)
A self proclaimed master - another movement tradition! 

Can't see that he's doing anything the TMO doesn't, except being
a success at teaching, but he seems a good deal less weird than
any raja which may go a long way to explaining that.

Good luck to him. Seems the die-hards here are finding any reason
to dislike him when all he's doing is increasing the amount of coherence in the 
world (if you believe it). Surely they should be applauding this guy, or at 
least begging him back to the TMO so he 
can bring a bit of his credibility with him.

I await the results of the court case with interest, if he's
getting good legal advice he'll know the TMO doesn't have a
leg to stand on about keeping the science to themselves,
science isn't an advert even though they use it as one. If
you discovered that going for a jog every morning helped prevent
heart disease you wouldn't sue anyone else who recommended going
for a jog every morning. Trying to prove they are running the
wrong way might be an interesting approach though, except we
all know we had the same phys-ed teacher.

Fun times ahead.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Post Count issues

On 01/22/2013 05:35 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:
 The post count that showed up last night was from the 19th. I logged into the 
 post count's gmail account, and there was an error message about another post 
 count mail being unable to be delivered:

  begin quote 

 Hi. This is the qmail-send program at m1.grp.bf1.yahoo.com.
 I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
 This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.

 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com:
 values:[ffl.postco...@gmail.com][FairfieldLife][FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com]
 Pid: 28299 Processing:(mail,us,ffl.postco...@gmail.com,FairfieldLife)
 DKIM-Status: Success domain_keys.c@118
 at [addtogs.c:462]
 script=/home/y/libexec/ygp_mail/mail/dosend
 level=E_ERROR
 Reason:
 gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
 loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
 dosend: fatal: gs_archive error: 14 (listID=3920196 host=10.193.39.130 
 loc=gs;area524/96/01/g3920196)
 I'm not going to try again; this message has been in the queue too long.

  end quote 

 I have no idea what's going on with yahoo and the post count mails, but the 
 whole post count rule depends on it. There is no way in hell that I'm going 
 to manually count people's posts and keep track of the post count myself, so 
 as far as I'm concerned, if the post counts don't start showing up in a 
 timely manner, the post count rule is toast.

Well there is the Python script I posted to the files section under 
Tools.  If you are getting FFL via email and via a client that uses MBox 
files to store the messages it works pretty slick and easy to set up 
(instructions are in the file).  The only differences will be if an 
email to your account gets delayed.  Of course I find it amusing that a 
group of supposedly enlightened people requires having a post count. :-D

Here's the output as of a few minutes ago from the Python script.

Start Date (UTC): Sun Jan 20 00:00:00 2013
End Date   (UTC): Sun Jan 27 00:00:00 2013
176 messages as of (UTC) Tue Jan 22 16:36:58 2013

19 authfriend authfri...@yahoo.com
19 Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com
16 Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com
12 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
11 turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com
11 doctordumb...@rocketmail.com no_re...@yahoogroups.com
10 Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com
  8 seventhray27 steve.sun...@yahoo.com
  8 Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com
  7 salyavin808 fintlewoodle...@mail.com
  7 card cardemais...@yahoo.com
  6 Ann awoelfleba...@yahoo.com
  5 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com
  4 Ravi Chivukula chivukula.r...@gmail.com
  4 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net
  3 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com
  3 Richard J. Williams rich...@rwilliams.us
  3 FFL PostCount ffl.postco...@gmail.com
  2 merlin vedamer...@yahoo.de
  2 emptybill emptyb...@yahoo.com
  2 emilymae.reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com
  2 Susan waybac...@yahoo.com
  2 John jr_...@yahoo.com
  2 Emily Reyn emilymae.r...@yahoo.com
  2 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com
  1 obbajeeba no_re...@yahoogroups.com
  1 laughinggull108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com
  1 feste37 fest...@yahoo.com
  1 earthensunreborn no_re...@yahoogroups.com
  1 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com
  1 Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com

Posters: 31

[FairfieldLife] Re: Thom Knowles - Vedic Meditation

2013-01-22 Thread doctordumbass

In other news, I think I'll probably change my windshield wipers this week.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808  wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  Please oh please all of you read this bio of Thom Knowles and see what you 
  think - it is mighty interesting and should prove good fodder for all sort 
  of views and comments!
  
  http://thomknoles.com/about-thom
 
 
 
 He's really got the self aggrandizing BS down to a fine art,
 probably all that time with Marshy rubbed off on him.
 
 Love the fact he calls himself a maharishi (but why no capital?)
 A self proclaimed master - another movement tradition! 
 
 Can't see that he's doing anything the TMO doesn't, except being
 a success at teaching, but he seems a good deal less weird than
 any raja which may go a long way to explaining that.
 
 Good luck to him. Seems the die-hards here are finding any reason
 to dislike him when all he's doing is increasing the amount of coherence in 
 the world (if you believe it). Surely they should be applauding this guy, or 
 at least begging him back to the TMO so he 
 can bring a bit of his credibility with him.
 
 I await the results of the court case with interest, if he's
 getting good legal advice he'll know the TMO doesn't have a
 leg to stand on about keeping the science to themselves,
 science isn't an advert even though they use it as one. If
 you discovered that going for a jog every morning helped prevent
 heart disease you wouldn't sue anyone else who recommended going
 for a jog every morning. Trying to prove they are running the
 wrong way might be an interesting approach though, except we
 all know we had the same phys-ed teacher.
 
 Fun times ahead.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Thom Knowles - Vedic Meditation

2013-01-22 Thread obbajeeba

I don't see any reason a law suit could be won against him. Good presentation. 
(I am not a follower, nor will I be one.)  He appears sincere with his beliefs. 
If people need someone and he appeals to them, I am sure there is useful value 
to all involved to some extent. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, salyavin808  wrote:

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson  wrote:
 
  Please oh please all of you read this bio of Thom Knowles and see what you 
  think - it is mighty interesting and should prove good fodder for all sort 
  of views and comments!
  
  http://thomknoles.com/about-thom
 
 
 
 He's really got the self aggrandizing BS down to a fine art,
 probably all that time with Marshy rubbed off on him.
 
 Love the fact he calls himself a maharishi (but why no capital?)
 A self proclaimed master - another movement tradition! 
 
 Can't see that he's doing anything the TMO doesn't, except being
 a success at teaching, but he seems a good deal less weird than
 any raja which may go a long way to explaining that.
 
 Good luck to him. Seems the die-hards here are finding any reason
 to dislike him when all he's doing is increasing the amount of coherence in 
 the world (if you believe it). Surely they should be applauding this guy, or 
 at least begging him back to the TMO so he 
 can bring a bit of his credibility with him.
 
 I await the results of the court case with interest, if he's
 getting good legal advice he'll know the TMO doesn't have a
 leg to stand on about keeping the science to themselves,
 science isn't an advert even though they use it as one. If
 you discovered that going for a jog every morning helped prevent
 heart disease you wouldn't sue anyone else who recommended going
 for a jog every morning. Trying to prove they are running the
 wrong way might be an interesting approach though, except we
 all know we had the same phys-ed teacher.
 
 Fun times ahead.

[FairfieldLife] Ravi, master of nothing! Happy returns to you!

2013-01-22 Thread obbajeeba

Dear Ravi,
Master of nothing, all that is too, do you feel the world below your feet?  
(airborne)   
Can you give us a hello from the transcendental street? 
Hope your travels are safe and fun!

-Obbajeeba (did I spell that correct?)

[FairfieldLife] TV Mini Review: The Following

What could be more of interest to FFL'ers than a show about a cult?  
I'm sure Turq will enjoy drawing all kinds of parallels with this show.  
The Following is a new FOX network show (broadcast network not FX) 
that premiered last night.  It stars Kevin Bacon as an out-of-commission 
FBI agent who is brought back onto a case of an escaped serial killer.  
This is a killer he caught 10 years earlier and wrote a book about.  
This could fall into a typical shtick procedural drama if it didn't have 
the cult twist which is revealed later in the pilot episode.  That 
gives it plenty of material for interesting episodes.

The pilot guest star is Maggie Grace (Lost) which made it the second 
show last night I watched with her in it because she also is appearing 
in Californication and maybe Hank's interest of the season.  Also a 
former Californication alumni as well as Justified is Natalie Zea 
who looks like she may have a regular role in The Following.   The 
pilot episode repeats Friday on FOX for those who missed it last night. 
Also available streaming at www.fox.com

February 19th a second cult show The Cult premieres on the CW 
network.  Are cults going to be the new TV rage.  Hmm, how 'bout one 
called Fairfield? :-D

Re: [FairfieldLife] Obama's Inauguration Speech

On 01/21/2013 05:19 PM, raunchydog wrote:
Obama delivered a beautiful, inspirational speech at his inauguration today.
It had a progressive hint of FDR that made me tear up feeling plugged into
national pride, hope, patriotism. American symbolism, flag, mom, small
children, Gold Medal Olympians, unions, dogs and underdogs, tug at my
heartstrings. Obama began his speech, We hold these truths to be
self-evident that all men are created equal. He had a lot to say about
equality, including a significant mention of gays. Wowzers, how about that?
He is the first president to use the word gay in an inauguration speech.
The times they are a changin. Better get use to greater diversity and browner
demographics, wingnuts. Thank goodness, not a word about bipartisanship. I
hope it's a sign he's tired of screwing around with crybaby Republicans
willing to blow up the economy if they don't get their way.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/21/obama-inauguration-speech-2013-video_n_2491812.html

That said, I remain the loyal opposition, siding with leftwing criticism of
his policies.

Bill Maher: `It's not your Second Amendment rights that are under attack —
it's all the other ones.'
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/19/maher-its-not-your-second-amendment-rights-that-are-under-attack-its-all-the-other-ones/

Obama's inaugural poem
by Cannonfire

On Medicare and benefits
My plan will rob you less than Mitt's.

I may still favor Goldman Sachs
But I'll nudge up the fat cat tax.

And when the weather's weirdly hot
I'll talk about it. Not a lot.

I will insure that spooks can find
Your texts and emails – datamined.

About your guns: Don't worry, folks --
You still can give them nice long strokes.

I will insure that all will call us
The butler of Israel ueber alles.

That said, I'll try for four years more
To dodge that planned Iranian war.

I won't invade but I like drones
Purchased with those T-bill loans.

I come to bring you peace and love
Don't get me mad or DEATH FROM ABOVE.

I piss off Fox and cats of fat.
Too bad I'm not a Democrat.

He sure is a master of NLP which is why I don't like to listen to him
much. Too much manipulative emphasis on words plus the gigantic period
at the end of sentences. Glad you are enthused over him though I know he
loves ya but he loves Wall Street and Defense Industry money more. The
real good thing is that we didn't have to listen to that guy, what was
his name, Mittens or something like that, give the inaugural speech.
He loves Wall Street and Defense Industry money too but doesn't love us.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

2013-01-22 Thread Xenophaneros Anartaxius

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:

 I'm not a gov recertified or otherwise but I'm assuming that govs learn up to 
 date knowledge on recert course.Â  Because non recertified govs are not 
 supposed to teach.Â  Oh and I do remember that even back in the day, there 
 were additions etc to checking notes.Â  Yep, personally I'd stick with a 
 recert gov, even for checking.Â  Does this answer your questions? 
 
 I don't speak for anyone other than myself but you're right.Â  Probably a 
 recert gov won't be taking Thom's programs.Â  Nonetheless I do think all the 
 procedures that Maharishi created should be protected by copyright. Â  Â Â  
 
 I bet there are those here who knew Thom personally.

Looking at historical information on the Internet and recalling some things 
some very long term meditators or teachers told me, it would seem the mantras 
and the way they are assigned in TM has changed over the years, and that the 
checking process also evolved, that all this was quite different early in the 
movement. That bija mantras used with TM are common property of a number of 
traditions. Since TM functioned well over this period, it would seem possible 
to conclude that there is more flexibility in the system than we are led to 
believe, and that one could create a rip-off version of TM that worked just as 
well that was not identical with the current TMO version.

There are about 340 peer reviewed scientific papers specifically about TM, but 
research on other meditation systems also show similar effects, and sometimes 
effects not reported by TM research literature. So how general is the 
meditation response? What is the same across meditation systems, what is 
different, and are those differences significant?

It is also seems reasonably clear that people not doing TM but in other 
traditions do get enlightened. An interesting difference I observe in various 
traditions, in looking at TMO published experiences of meditators, is I tend to 
see various kinds of blissful, integrated experiences that one had during a 
program period, and sometimes out of program period reported in TMO literature 
while in other traditions, at least the ones I am familiar with, there seems to 
be more emphasis on an 'awakening' where the student suddenly grasps that the 
universe is an integral whole. 

And what is a tradition? It is selective memory and splicing together those 
remembered or selected sections. Before Guru Dev in the TMO tradition, there 
was Shankara, and then a gap and loss of knowledge followed by a revival, so 
the tradition is only contiguous in that respect. So unless it is possible to 
prove a direct lineage, a tradition is essentially manufactured, a symbolic 
representation of key points in history selected out for their significant 
contributions rather than a hand-me-down scenario, though it is made to seem 
like a hand-me-down scenario.

As far a traditions in which 'awakening' as a discrete utterly transforming 
experience is reported, at that point the whole mechanics of enlightenment, 
which includes whatever tradition was involved, is seen as having been a 
delusion, a mistake of the intellect.

And then there is the matter that Being, the basis of all these scenarios, is 
something that everyone possesses fully from the beginning, that we eventually 
realise what has always been the case no matter what tradition, so where is the 
proprietary value in that?

[FairfieldLife] Re: TV Mini Review: The Following

2013-01-22 Thread turquoiseb

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:

 What could be more of interest to FFL'ers than a show about 
 a cult? I'm sure Turq will enjoy drawing all kinds of 
 parallels with this show. The Following is a new FOX 
 network show (broadcast network not FX) that premiered 
 last night. It stars Kevin Bacon as an out-of-commission 
 FBI agent who is brought back onto a case of an escaped 
 serial killer. This is a killer he caught 10 years earlier 
 and wrote a book about. This could fall into a typical 
 shtick procedural drama if it didn't have the cult twist 
 which is revealed later in the pilot episode.  That 
 gives it plenty of material for interesting episodes.

I saw it pop up in my Most Recent Torrents list this
morning, IMDB'd it, and decided to download it. But I
haven't had time to watch it, because I have been 
totally, completely, Braquo-whipped. 

I started watching the 16 episodes (seasons 1 and 2) 
I have of this show a couple of days ago, and I have
not been able to stop watching until now. Fortunately
this is a slow work period. :-)

It may be the best cop show I've ever seen on television.

Did you ever see Olivier Marchal's film 36 Quai des 
Orfèvres? It was his first as a writer/director, and it
was bloody brilliant, starring the cream of the crop of
French actors, Daniel Auteuil and Gerard Depardieu. Well,
the potential greatness he showed in that flick has borne
fruit in Braquo. It really DOES take an ex-cop to write
and direct a great cop story.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony

Yep, Being belongs to everyone and to no one and is actually beyond all 
belonging, beyond all not belonging, etc.  At a certain point, words not only 
fail.  They fail miserably.  But here on FFL we make the best use of them that 
we can.   Are not words Being too?  I appreciate all that you say here, 
especially the bit about tradition.





 From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 12:30 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Legal fight over calming technique lacks harmony
 

  
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long  wrote:

 I'm not a gov recertified or otherwise but I'm assuming that govs learn up to 
 date knowledge on recert course.Â  Because non recertified govs are not 
 supposed to teach.Â  Oh and I do remember that even back in the day, there 
 were additions etc to checking notes.Â  Yep, personally I'd stick with a 
 recert gov, even for checking.Â  Does this answer your questions? 
 
 I don't speak for anyone other than myself but you're right.Â  Probably a 
 recert gov won't be taking Thom's programs.Â  Nonetheless I do think all the 
 procedures that Maharishi created should be protected by copyright. Â  Â Â  
 
 I bet there are those here who knew Thom personally.

Looking at historical information on the Internet and recalling some things 
some very long term meditators or teachers told me, it would seem the mantras 
and the way they are assigned in TM has changed over the years, and that the 
checking process also evolved, that all this was quite different early in the 
movement. That bija mantras used with TM are common property of a number of 
traditions. Since TM functioned well over this period, it would seem possible 
to conclude that there is more flexibility in the system than we are led to 
believe, and that one could create a rip-off version of TM that worked just as 
well that was not identical with the current TMO version.

There are about 340 peer reviewed scientific papers specifically about TM, but 
research on other meditation systems also show similar effects, and sometimes 
effects not reported by TM research literature. So how general is the 
meditation response? What is the same across meditation systems, what is 
different, and are those differences significant?

It is also seems reasonably clear that people not doing TM but in other 
traditions do get enlightened. An interesting difference I observe in various 
traditions, in looking at TMO published experiences of meditators, is I tend to 
see various kinds of blissful, integrated experiences that one had during a 
program period, and sometimes out of program period reported in TMO literature 
while in other traditions, at least the ones I am familiar with, there seems to 
be more emphasis on an 'awakening' where the student suddenly grasps that the 
universe is an integral whole. 

And what is a tradition? It is selective memory and splicing together those 
remembered or selected sections. Before Guru Dev in the TMO tradition, there 
was Shankara, and then a gap and loss of knowledge followed by a revival, so 
the tradition is only contiguous in that respect. So unless it is possible to 
prove a direct lineage, a tradition is essentially manufactured, a symbolic 
representation of key points in history selected out for their significant 
contributions rather than a hand-me-down scenario, though it is made to seem 
like a hand-me-down scenario.

As far a traditions in which 'awakening' as a discrete utterly transforming 
experience is reported, at that point the whole mechanics of enlightenment, 
which includes whatever tradition was involved, is seen as having been a 
delusion, a mistake of the intellect.

And then there is the matter that Being, the basis of all these scenarios, is 
something that everyone possesses fully from the beginning, that we eventually 
realise what has always been the case no matter what tradition, so where is the 
proprietary value in that?

[FairfieldLife] Re: Obama's Inauguration Speech

2013-01-22 Thread wgm4u


Another politician that will soon be forgotten, (thank God for Presidential 
term limits). The more the Republicans say NO, the better off America will be, 
(who wants to be like Europe).

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:

 On 01/21/2013 05:19 PM, raunchydog wrote:
  Obama delivered a beautiful, inspirational speech at his inauguration 
  today. It had a progressive hint of FDR that made me tear up feeling 
  plugged into national pride, hope, patriotism. American symbolism, flag, 
  mom, small children, Gold Medal Olympians, unions, dogs and underdogs, tug 
  at my heartstrings. Obama began his speech, We hold these truths to be 
  self-evident that all men are created equal. He had a lot to say about 
  equality, including a significant mention of gays. Wowzers, how about that? 
  He is the first president to use the word gay in an inauguration speech. 
  The times they are a changin. Better get use to greater diversity and 
  browner demographics, wingnuts. Thank goodness, not a word about 
  bipartisanship. I hope it's a sign he's tired of screwing around with 
  crybaby Republicans willing to blow up the economy if they don't get their 
  way.
  http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/21/obama-inauguration-speech-2013-video_n_2491812.html
 
  That said, I remain the loyal opposition, siding with leftwing criticism of 
  his policies.
 
  Bill Maher: `It's not your Second Amendment rights that are under attack  
  it's all the other ones.' 
  http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/19/maher-its-not-your-second-amendment-rights-that-are-under-attack-its-all-the-other-ones/
 
  Obama's inaugural poem
  by Cannonfire
 
  On Medicare and benefits
  My plan will rob you less than Mitt's.
 
  I may still favor Goldman Sachs
  But I'll nudge up the fat cat tax.
 
  And when the weather's weirdly hot
  I'll talk about it. Not a lot.
 
  I will insure that spooks can find
  Your texts and emails  datamined.
 
  About your guns: Don't worry, folks --
  You still can give them nice long strokes.
 
  I will insure that all will call us
  The butler of Israel ueber alles.
 
  That said, I'll try for four years more
  To dodge that planned Iranian war.
 
  I won't invade but I like drones
  Purchased with those T-bill loans.
 
  I come to bring you peace and love
  Don't get me mad or DEATH FROM ABOVE.
 
  I piss off Fox and cats of fat.
  Too bad I'm not a Democrat.
 
 He sure is a master of NLP which is why I don't like to listen to him 
 much. Too much manipulative emphasis on words plus the gigantic period 
 at the end of sentences. Glad you are enthused over him though I know he 
 loves ya but he loves Wall Street and Defense Industry money more. The 
 real good thing is that we didn't have to listen to that guy, what was 
 his name, Mittens or something like that, give the inaugural speech. 
 He loves Wall Street and Defense Industry money too but doesn't love us.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TV Mini Review: The Following

On 01/22/2013 10:40 AM, turquoiseb wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bhairitu  wrote:
 What could be more of interest to FFL'ers than a show about
 a cult? I'm sure Turq will enjoy drawing all kinds of
 parallels with this show. The Following is a new FOX
 network show (broadcast network not FX) that premiered
 last night. It stars Kevin Bacon as an out-of-commission
 FBI agent who is brought back onto a case of an escaped
 serial killer. This is a killer he caught 10 years earlier
 and wrote a book about. This could fall into a typical
 shtick procedural drama if it didn't have the cult twist
 which is revealed later in the pilot episode.  That
 gives it plenty of material for interesting episodes.
 I saw it pop up in my Most Recent Torrents list this
 morning, IMDB'd it, and decided to download it. But I
 haven't had time to watch it, because I have been
 totally, completely, Braquo-whipped.

 I started watching the 16 episodes (seasons 1 and 2)
 I have of this show a couple of days ago, and I have
 not been able to stop watching until now. Fortunately
 this is a slow work period. :-)

 It may be the best cop show I've ever seen on television.

 Did you ever see Olivier Marchal's film 36 Quai des
 Orfèvres? It was his first as a writer/director, and it
 was bloody brilliant, starring the cream of the crop of
 French actors, Daniel Auteuil and Gerard Depardieu. Well,
 the potential greatness he showed in that flick has borne
 fruit in Braquo. It really DOES take an ex-cop to write
 and direct a great cop story.

I think I did see 36 (the US title) on Netflix as the storyline for 
Braquo resonated with me.  Unfortunately Braquo isn't yet available 
on Netflix (where it is most likely to show up) or was (the 2009 
episodes).  Neither is 36 or it would tell me when I watched or rented it.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Obama's Inauguration Speech