[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Bingo. Sal On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:30 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever. * Anybody who has read the Ramayana (not just a summary but the whole long story: http://tinyurl.com/luqmv ) knows that an ideal society like that depicted in the Ramayana, in which Rama ruled at Ayodha for a very long time was not based on being a mindless subject, but on living maximum values of creativity and happiness, enabled by the harmonious atmosphere created by an enlightened king. The ruthless kings and dictators now found on earth try to fake harmony by tyrannical rule, but this does not in any way resemble the harmony created by high values of awareness, which is able to attend to everybody fairly without repression and without having to make decisions for everybody. You just keep believing in fairytales, Bob. :-) The existence of God and a virgin birth...that requires faith. But to believe that a married couple never got down? That's just plain gullibility. -- Rufus in the film 'Dogma' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Bingo. Sal On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:30 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever. * Anybody who has read the Ramayana (not just a summary but the whole long story: http://tinyurl.com/luqmv ) knows that an ideal society like that depicted in the Ramayana, in which Rama ruled at Ayodha for a very long time was not based on being a mindless subject, but on living maximum values of creativity and happiness, enabled by the harmonious atmosphere created by an enlightened king. The ruthless kings and dictators now found on earth try to fake harmony by tyrannical rule, but this does not in any way resemble the harmony created by high values of awareness, which is able to attend to everybody fairly without repression and without having to make decisions for everybody. You just keep believing in fairytales, Bob. :-) The existence of God and a virgin birth...that requires faith. But to believe that a married couple never got down? That's just plain gullibility. -- Rufus in the film 'Dogma' *** Expanded awareness is a fairytale for an unfortunate like you, who has tossed TM, but infinite awareness remains a reality for those fortunate enough to maintain practice of TM in the hostile environment of today's unhappy planet... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. Just as a question, how many people believe that Sat Yuga ever existed? As far as I can tell, Sat Yuga is a myth/fairytale told to children, who theoretically are the only ones who should believe in it. I've never seen any historical or anthropological evidence that such a time ever existed, or that life in India has *ever* been that much different than the way it is now. So those of you who *do* believe in the Hindu idea about this previous (and hopefully future) golden age, could you explain to me *why* you believe this is true? Is it purely because it's mentioned in Hindu scriptures, and that you take these scriptures literally? This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. * Whether you regard the Ramayana as an authentic historical record or as fiction, the point is that MMY endorses rulership from the level of enlightenment, which is the only level that can behave fairly to all the interests of society. People have embraced democracy because good people are not available to be rulers, but this is only a temporary phase in human history. When enlightened people are found again on earth, the people will dump democracy's inefficiencies and inherent unfairness (majority rule means that the majority will always repress the minority) and live with kings again. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. * Whether you regard the Ramayana as an authentic historical record or as fiction, the point is that MMY endorses rulership from the level of enlightenment, which is the only level that can behave fairly to all the interests of society. Theoretically. Show me an example of such enlightened leadership. Is it the TMO? If so, better to stick with the current systems. :-) I'm back to my original point -- Maharishi bases his ideal on a fairytale, and cannot point to even ONE example of it ever having happened in real life. People have embraced democracy because good people are not available to be rulers... People have embraced democracy because it's a good idea. Only sheep are looking for good rulers. You seem to be one of them. Baa, dude. :-) ...but this is only a temporary phase in human history. It's been temporary so far for pretty much the full *length* of human history. I suspect it will remain equally temporary for the *rest* of human history. When enlightened people are found again on earth, the people will dump democracy's inefficiencies and inherent unfairness (majority rule means that the majority will always repress the minority) and live with kings again. That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. * Whether you regard the Ramayana as an authentic historical record or as fiction, the point is that MMY endorses rulership from the level of enlightenment, which is the only level that can behave fairly to all the interests of society. People have embraced democracy because good people are not available to be rulers, but this is only a temporary phase in human history. When enlightened people are found again on earth, the people will dump democracy's inefficiencies and inherent unfairness (majority rule means that the majority will always repress the minority) and live with kings again. This assumes that enlightenment exists, works as MMY claims, and that one (or someone --MMY?) can determine whether or not a potential ruler like King Tony is enlightened. Not to mention the assumption that one can insure that a succession of enlightened kings/dictators will occur for multiple generations. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. Just as a question, how many people believe that Sat Yuga ever existed? As far as I can tell, Sat Yuga is a myth/fairytale told to children, who theoretically are the only ones who should believe in it. I've never seen any historical or anthropological evidence that such a time ever existed, or that life in India has *ever* been that much different than the way it is now. So those of you who *do* believe in the Hindu idea about this previous (and hopefully future) golden age, could you explain to me *why* you believe this is true? Is it purely because it's mentioned in Hindu scriptures, and that you take these scriptures literally? This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... Assigning credibility to the Vedic texts is easy for people who have experienced the expansion of awareness through the centerpiece of those texts, TM -- if the Vedic tradition can deliver on infinity, then stories of epochs in which the people live at high levels of consciousness are not a big reach. Really, the stories of the Puranas and other Vedic literature about life in differnet epochs are not so important compared to the possibility of practicing TM and living unlimited awareness, but it's easy to extrapolate confidence in all the stories of the Vedic literature when the big story, gaining infinite awareness, can be verified by anybody through TM. For those who do not understand that one can restore full awareness to their experience of life, then it's obvious that those people can assign no such credibility to the Vedic literature. There would likely be no anthropological or historical (other than the extensive Vedic literature, Puranas especially) record of the Sat Yuga, since it was more than two million years ago that it ended. The only record that there is of the Sat Yuga is the Vedic literature, so if you don't buy that, you're S.O.L. Anthropologists keep pushing back the timeline for modern humans: http://newsfromrussia.com/science/2005/02/17/58303.html Only about one out of a billion human or animal remains survives as a fossil for more than a million years, so it's difficult to prove when modern humans actually began. I'll take the word of the Vedic texts on the age of humans, for the reason stated above. Just a few years ago, the age of the universe was low-balled, only two billions year old as late as 1947: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/cutting/ageuniv.htm I expect that some day scientists will be giving statements about human history that are consonant with what is said in the Vedic lit. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. Just as a question, how many people believe that Sat Yuga ever existed? As far as I can tell, Sat Yuga is a myth/fairytale told to children, who theoretically are the only ones who should believe in it. I've never seen any historical or anthropological evidence that such a time ever existed, or that life in India has *ever* been that much different than the way it is now. So those of you who *do* believe in the Hindu idea about this previous (and hopefully future) golden age, could you explain to me *why* you believe this is true? Is it purely because it's mentioned in Hindu scriptures, and that you take these scriptures literally? This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... Assigning credibility to the Vedic texts is easy for people who have experienced the expansion of awareness through the centerpiece of those texts, TM -- if the Vedic tradition can deliver on infinity, then stories of epochs in which the people live at high levels of consciousness are not a big reach. Really, the stories of the Puranas and other Vedic literature about life in differnet epochs are not so important compared to the possibility of practicing TM and living unlimited awareness, but it's easy to extrapolate confidence in all the stories of the Vedic literature when the big story, gaining infinite awareness, can be verified by anybody through TM. Thanks for your reply. Now I guess my next question is, where is the modern-day example of a life lived in tune with having gained infinite awareness? Is it the TM movement? One would theoretically think so, since it is the org- anization that contains the most people practicing TM. But the last time I checked, even *you* were fairly critical of that organization and the way it handles things. So if you don't mind, point me to the real- world example of this theoretical ideal society of which you speak. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
Bingo. Sal On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:30 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... Assigning credibility to the Vedic texts is easy for people who have experienced the expansion of awareness through the centerpiece of those texts, TM -- if the Vedic tradition can deliver on infinity, then stories of epochs in which the people live at high levels of consciousness are not a big reach. Really, the stories of the Puranas and other Vedic literature about life in differnet epochs are not so important compared to the possibility of practicing TM and living unlimited awareness, but it's easy to extrapolate confidence in all the stories of the Vedic literature when the big story, gaining infinite awareness, can be verified by anybody through TM. Thanks for your reply. Now I guess my next question is, where is the modern-day example of a life lived in tune with having gained infinite awareness? Is it the TM movement? One would theoretically think so, since it is the org- anization that contains the most people practicing TM. But the last time I checked, even *you* were fairly critical of that organization and the way it handles things. So if you don't mind, point me to the real- world example of this theoretical ideal society of which you speak. I don't find anywhere that Bob suggested there was a modern-day, real-world example of an ideal society. Seems to me he was talking about (a) why someone might have confidence in the Vedic account of a Sat-Yuga golden age, and (b) why someone who had such confidence might believe in the possibility that there could be another one. Why would anybody assume Bob had some modern-day, real-world example in mind? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
on 4/18/06 1:20 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. * Whether you regard the Ramayana as an authentic historical record or as fiction, the point is that MMY endorses rulership from the level of enlightenment, which is the only level that can behave fairly to all the interests of society. Does the movement do this? Do the most enlightened people in the movement do this? Has Maharishi always done this? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. Just as a question, how many people believe that Sat Yuga ever existed? As far as I can tell, Sat Yuga is a myth/fairytale told to children, who theoretically are the only ones who should believe in it. I've never seen any historical or anthropological evidence that such a time ever existed, or that life in India has *ever* been that much different than the way it is now. So those of you who *do* believe in the Hindu idea about this previous (and hopefully future) golden age, could you explain to me *why* you believe this is true? Is it purely because it's mentioned in Hindu scriptures, and that you take these scriptures literally? This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... Many of us here believe in things for which there is as yet no scientific evidence or record. Some of us believe in past lives. Some even believe they have seen somebody levitate. Some of these same people, however, advocate that one trust one's own experience even if it hasn't been scientifically validated--and actually mock reliance on scientific evidence--when the experience in question resonates with their own experience. But when someone mentions an experience they have *not* had, they demand to know why the person should believe in it when it has not been scientifically validated. Odd, eh? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
on 4/18/06 10:12 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't find anywhere that Bob suggested there was a modern-day, real-world example of an ideal society. Seems to me he was talking about (a) why someone might have confidence in the Vedic account of a Sat-Yuga golden age, and (b) why someone who had such confidence might believe in the possibility that there could be another one. Why would anybody assume Bob had some modern-day, real-world example in mind? No, but if lots of people meditating is what makes an ideal society, it would follow that the TMO should be a microcosm of such a society, yet Bob is one of it's strongest critics. So if Bob thinks the TMO is a flop as an ideal society, how does he believe that if the TMO were to become predominant population group, an ideal society would result? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: snip People have embraced democracy because good people are not available to be rulers... People have embraced democracy because it's a good idea. Exactly. It's a good idea because, as Bob says, we can't count on good people being available as rulers. Only sheep are looking for good rulers. You seem to be one of them. Baa, dude. :-) That would depend, of course, on what one means by rulers. ...but this is only a temporary phase in human history. It's been temporary so far for pretty much the full *length* of human history. I suspect it will remain equally temporary for the *rest* of human history. Actually, the phrase human history has two meanings, depending on the context. It can mean *recorded* history; or it can mean the entire course of human existence, including what happened before records began to be kept (or at least records that have survived). So one can make the statement that Kali Yuga has been temporary for the full length of human history only if one means history in the first sense, i.e., recorded history. That period is the only one we can have any objective knowledge of. When enlightened people are found again on earth, the people will dump democracy's inefficiencies and inherent unfairness (majority rule means that the majority will always repress the minority) and live with kings again. That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever. To me, this assertion represents a certain lack of imagination. It seems to me within the range of possibility that enlightened dictatorship could involve a style of governance quite different from any that we are familiar with in the real world, one that would *give* people responsibility for their own lives rather than taking it away from them. Even those forms of governance we know about that grant people the greatest measure of responsibility nevertheless restrict that responsibility in some areas. As Bob points out, democracy can result in a tyranny of the majority, in which only the majority is granted full responsibility (and even its responsibility may be curtained in some ways). Plus which, even in nations that are supposedly governed according to the highest ideals of democracy, those ideals can be subverted and corrupted--as we are seeing today in the United States, for example--when leaders take power who are not committed to the principles of democracy set out in their nation's charter. Churchill's famous aphorism about government--that democracy is the worst system of governance ever devised, except for all the rest--may be germane here. Whether an enlightened dictatorship could remedy the deficiencies of our current systems of government is unknown, but to proclaim that it could *only* function by telling people what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again seems to require a pinched and limited ability to conceive of possibilities. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: snip People have embraced democracy because good people are not available to be rulers... People have embraced democracy because it's a good idea. Exactly. It's a good idea because, as Bob says, we can't count on good people being available as rulers. Only sheep are looking for good rulers. You seem to be one of them. Baa, dude. :-) That would depend, of course, on what one means by rulers. ...but this is only a temporary phase in human history. It's been temporary so far for pretty much the full *length* of human history. I suspect it will remain equally temporary for the *rest* of human history. Actually, the phrase human history has two meanings, depending on the context. It can mean *recorded* history; or it can mean the entire course of human existence, including what happened before records began to be kept (or at least records that have survived). So one can make the statement that Kali Yuga has been temporary for the full length of human history only if one means history in the first sense, i.e., recorded history. That period is the only one we can have any objective knowledge of. When enlightened people are found again on earth, the people will dump democracy's inefficiencies and inherent unfairness (majority rule means that the majority will always repress the minority) and live with kings again. That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever. To me, this assertion represents a certain lack of imagination. It seems to me within the range of possibility that enlightened dictatorship could involve a style of governance quite different from any that we are familiar with in the real world, one that would *give* people responsibility for their own lives rather than taking it away from them. Even those forms of governance we know about that grant people the greatest measure of responsibility nevertheless restrict that responsibility in some areas. As Bob points out, democracy can result in a tyranny of the majority, in which only the majority is granted full responsibility (and even its responsibility may be curtained in some ways). Plus which, even in nations that are supposedly governed according to the highest ideals of democracy, those ideals can be subverted and corrupted--as we are seeing today in the United States, for example--when leaders take power who are not committed to the principles of democracy set out in their nation's charter. Churchill's famous aphorism about government--that democracy is the worst system of governance ever devised, except for all the rest--may be germane here. Whether an enlightened dictatorship could remedy the deficiencies of our current systems of government is unknown, but to proclaim that it could *only* function by telling people what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again seems to require a pinched and limited ability to conceive of possibilities. Great thread-- interesting that an 'enlightened dictatorship' is exactly what we impose on ourselves as seekers, once we gain knowledge of our Selves, but prior to full awakening! So does this then make us sheep? Perhaps this is where the expression 'the lamb of God' comes from, and all the allusions to 'the flock' so common in Christianity...bah! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 10:12 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't find anywhere that Bob suggested there was a modern-day, real-world example of an ideal society. Seems to me he was talking about (a) why someone might have confidence in the Vedic account of a Sat-Yuga golden age, and (b) why someone who had such confidence might believe in the possibility that there could be another one. Why would anybody assume Bob had some modern-day, real-world example in mind? No, but if lots of people meditating is what makes an ideal society, it would follow that the TMO should be a microcosm of such a society, yet Bob is one of it's strongest critics. So if Bob thinks the TMO is a flop as an ideal society, how does he believe that if the TMO were to become predominant population group, an ideal society would result? I'm not sure it follows that the TMO should be a microcosm of an ideal society, actually, given that it exists within and cannot function independently of the larger, rather horrendously non-ideal society. That isn't really a fair test. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Even those forms of governance we know about that grant people the greatest measure of responsibility nevertheless restrict that responsibility in some areas. As Bob points out, democracy can result in a tyranny of the majority, in which only the majority is granted full responsibility (and even its responsibility may be curtained in some ways). Ugh. That should be curtailed in some ways. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. Just as a question, how many people believe that Sat Yuga ever existed? As far as I can tell, Sat Yuga is a myth/fairytale told to children, who theoretically are the only ones who should believe in it. I've never seen any historical or anthropological evidence that such a time ever existed, or that life in India has *ever* been that much different than the way it is now. So those of you who *do* believe in the Hindu idea about this previous (and hopefully future) golden age, could you explain to me *why* you believe this is true? Is it purely because it's mentioned in Hindu scriptures, and that you take these scriptures literally? This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... No comment about events of an illusory past. However, each of the yugas can be seen as models for our own spiritual development. Much more challenging, fun and real that way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. Just as a question, how many people believe that Sat Yuga ever existed? As far as I can tell, Sat Yuga is a myth/fairytale told to children, who theoretically are the only ones who should believe in it. I've never seen any historical or anthropological evidence that such a time ever existed, or that life in India has *ever* been that much different than the way it is now. So those of you who *do* believe in the Hindu idea about this previous (and hopefully future) golden age, could you explain to me *why* you believe this is true? Is it purely because it's mentioned in Hindu scriptures, and that you take these scriptures literally? This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... Assigning credibility to the Vedic texts is easy for people who have experienced the expansion of awareness through the centerpiece of those texts, TM -- if the Vedic tradition can deliver on infinity, then stories of epochs in which the people live at high levels of consciousness are not a big reach. Really, the stories of the Puranas and other Vedic literature about life in differnet epochs are not so important compared to the possibility of practicing TM and living unlimited awareness, but it's easy to extrapolate confidence in all the stories of the Vedic literature when the big story, gaining infinite awareness, can be verified by anybody through TM. Thanks for your reply. Now I guess my next question is, where is the modern-day example of a life lived in tune with having gained infinite awareness? Is it the TM movement? One would theoretically think so, since it is the org- anization that contains the most people practicing TM. But the last time I checked, even *you* were fairly critical of that organization and the way it handles things. So if you don't mind, point me to the real- world example of this theoretical ideal society of which you speak. Nearly everybody, including I believe, flaming anti-TMOers like you, respects Guru Dev Swami Brahmananda Saraswati, MMY's master, so there is at least one modern-day example of a life lived in tune with infinite awareness. I am not as one-pointed as Guru Dev, who left home at age nine (!) to seek enlightenment, but I and many others are on that same search, thanks to Guru Dev and MMY, so if will exercise a little patience and good humor you might be lucky to see many other enlightened souls who would be the trees in an enlightened forest society. Floating the spiritual regeneration movement boat in the Kaliyuga is just a real slow process, but infinite awareness/order is just the reality of life, so it always wins whether it looks like it will or not... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bingo. Sal On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:30 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever. * Anybody who has read the Ramayana (not just a summary but the whole long story: http://tinyurl.com/luqmv ) knows that an ideal society like that depicted in the Ramayana, in which Rama ruled at Ayodha for a very long time was not based on being a mindless subject, but on living maximum values of creativity and happiness, enabled by the harmonious atmosphere created by an enlightened king. The ruthless kings and dictators now found on earth try to fake harmony by tyrannical rule, but this does not in any way resemble the harmony created by high values of awareness, which is able to attend to everybody fairly without repression and without having to make decisions for everybody. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 10:12 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't find anywhere that Bob suggested there was a modern-day, real-world example of an ideal society. Seems to me he was talking about (a) why someone might have confidence in the Vedic account of a Sat-Yuga golden age, and (b) why someone who had such confidence might believe in the possibility that there could be another one. Why would anybody assume Bob had some modern-day, real-world example in mind? No, but if lots of people meditating is what makes an ideal society, it would follow that the TMO should be a microcosm of such a society, yet Bob is one of it's strongest critics. So if Bob thinks the TMO is a flop as an ideal society, how does he believe that if the TMO were to become predominant population group, an ideal society would result? *** Lots of enlightened people are what makes an ideal society. If a million Sems (the meditator who killed a student at MUM) are practicing TM, this does not constitute an ideal society. The fact is, the great majority of people today are too disordered to grow in awareness very quickly -- that's just life in the Kaliyuga, or as MMY said, it's the luck of the world: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/71700 The pundits in the Brahmastan of India are purifying the atmosphere there so that Vedic culture can be restored to India -- when that happens, there will be an ideal society serving as a lighthouse to the world. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
On Apr 18, 2006, at 5:36 PM, bob_brigante wrote: The pundits in the Brahmastan of India are purifying the atmosphere there so that Vedic culture can be restored to India -- when that happens, there will be an ideal society serving as a lighthouse to the world. So you've seen pictures of these pundits doing this recently? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 1:20 AM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante no_reply@ wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. In other words, a fairytale. Figures. * Whether you regard the Ramayana as an authentic historical record or as fiction, the point is that MMY endorses rulership from the level of enlightenment, which is the only level that can behave fairly to all the interests of society. Does the movement do this? Do the most enlightened people in the movement do this? Has Maharishi always done this? Well, sure, Assuming that the Maharishi Effect is real, the TMO and Maharishi have always behaved as though establishing large-scale, PERMANENT yogic flying groups is the number one priority. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/18/06 10:12 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't find anywhere that Bob suggested there was a modern-day, real-world example of an ideal society. Seems to me he was talking about (a) why someone might have confidence in the Vedic account of a Sat-Yuga golden age, and (b) why someone who had such confidence might believe in the possibility that there could be another one. Why would anybody assume Bob had some modern-day, real-world example in mind? No, but if lots of people meditating is what makes an ideal society, it would follow that the TMO should be a microcosm of such a society, yet Bob is one of it's strongest critics. So if Bob thinks the TMO is a flop as an ideal society, how does he believe that if the TMO were to become predominant population group, an ideal society would result? Is everyone in the TMO enlightened? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. Just as a question, how many people believe that Sat Yuga ever existed? As far as I can tell, Sat Yuga is a myth/fairytale told to children, who theoretically are the only ones who should believe in it. I've never seen any historical or anthropological evidence that such a time ever existed, or that life in India has *ever* been that much different than the way it is now. So those of you who *do* believe in the Hindu idea about this previous (and hopefully future) golden age, could you explain to me *why* you believe this is true? Is it purely because it's mentioned in Hindu scriptures, and that you take these scriptures literally? This is not just Hindu-bashing, BTW. I feel the same way about people who go on and on about Atlantis and Mu without a shred of proof that either civilization ever existed. There are some smart people here, and some of them obviously believe strongly in this model of different Yugas, and that there *was* such a golden age in the past, even if there is no record of such an age scientifically. I'm curious as to the reasons *why* they believe this. Thanks in advance... No comment about events of an illusory past. However, each of the yugas can be seen as models for our own spiritual development. Much more challenging, fun and real that way. Or a racial precognitive memory of a future time, mis-perceived as a historical event? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunshine@ wrote: Bingo. Sal On Apr 18, 2006, at 1:30 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: That is possible. There are a *lot* of people who are afraid of taking responsibility for their own lives, and who are hoping desperately for Santa Claus to come along and rule them and tell them what to do all the time so they never have to make any decisions ever again. Most people call this form of government a cult. You seem happier with the term Sat Yuga. Whatever. * Anybody who has read the Ramayana (not just a summary but the whole long story: http://tinyurl.com/luqmv ) knows that an ideal society like that depicted in the Ramayana, in which Rama ruled at Ayodha for a very long time was not based on being a mindless subject, but on living maximum values of creativity and happiness, enabled by the harmonious atmosphere created by an enlightened king. The ruthless kings and dictators now found on earth try to fake harmony by tyrannical rule, but this does not in any way resemble the harmony created by high values of awareness, which is able to attend to everybody fairly without repression and without having to make decisions for everybody. Couldn't be, Bob. It doesn't fit Barry's paradigm, you see. snicker Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made... Post 94839 ...but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. He did more than joke about it. When several of the TM-in-prison programs were being proposed back in the 70s, Maharishi wanted us to demand that prisoners *had* to learn TM. As I remember Jerry Jarvis nixed this, because of course the State of California would never have agreed to any study that was mandatory. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. It almost sounds benevolent, because so many of us had essentially pleasant experiences with vanilla TM. The tendency is to think, Oh that's not really religious fanaticism...it's just TM, after all. But imagine that the person being forced to learn and practice it is yourself, and that the technique that has gained politically-correct favor enough to be made mandatory is Scientology. Or Subud. Or for those who are, in true TM fashion, terrified of any technique that involves effort, some form of meditation that actually required you to focus. How would you feel about how benevolent these meditation police might be? How funny is the joke then? Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. Absolutely. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. Here I disagree with you. I doubt he ever paid the mechanics of how this would happen any mind whatsoever, because he really never *cared* about the people who would be forced to learn TM. What they wanted and what they believed was irrelevant, not to be considered...all that was important for the greater good is that they practice TM. Maharishi wouldn't have concerned himself with the details as long as the bottom line was what he wanted. There have been many attempts to get large numbers to meditate in factories, schools, etc., in which the actual willingness of individuals to go along with the plan was the last thing on his mind. Absolutely. In my experience, he would consider the sensibilities of the people involved irrelevant. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
On Apr 17, 2006, at 11:02 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: But imagine that the person being forced to learn and practice it is yourself, and that the technique that has gained politically-correct favor enough to be made mandatory is Scientology. Or Subud. Or for those who are, in true TM fashion, terrified of any technique that involves effort, some form of meditation that actually required you to focus. How would you feel about how benevolent these meditation police might be? How funny is the joke then? A friend who was a Social Worker, worked at a local and brand new psychiatric facility and was required to attend seminars by Landmark Forum---the latest incarnation of Werner Erhard's EST idea. Apparently a part of Landmark was getting into large corporations and getting everyone to take their course. He ended up having these trainings put in his job evaluation by his boss who wanted the whole hospital to take the training. Well, the course threw him into a psychotic break. He successfully sued the hospital and they settled out of court to avoid public exposure. Being forced to take this course was not funny to him. I could see the same thing happening with anything that was forced upon someone. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. There have been many attempts to get large numbers to meditate in factories, schools, etc., in which the actually willingness of individuals to go along with the plan was the last thing on his mind. Huh. According to Farohk, the implementation of TM in the prison system in Senegal was 100% voluntary, and he and the other TM teachers spent many hours answering everyone's questions about it before everyone agreed to start. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? There have been many attempts to get large numbers to meditate in factories, schools, etc., in which the actually willingness of individuals to go along with the plan was the last thing on his mind. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? Since he's said he likes enlightened kings on the Larry King show, its not exactly a secret these days. However, who would NOT prefer an enlightend king to a President Bush? The problems are: 1) how do you know they're enlightened? and 2) whats the guarantee that the next guy is going to be enlightened also? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
on 4/17/06 11:55 AM, anonyff at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? Yup. I was there too. Maharishi has often said that the common man shouldn't be trying to run the government. That's what he's implying when he says damn democracy. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonyff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer fairfieldlife@ wrote: on 4/17/06 1:27 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I stand by my original point -- ANYONE who can justify *forcing* people to follow his or her spiritual beliefs, for *ANY* reason, has crossed a boundary from inspired believer into the realm of dangerous fanatic. Maharishi crossed that boundary many years ago. I missed the post about the Catholic Church forcing people to attend mass, and about the comparison with the TMO, if that was made, but Maharishi did used to joke about forcing people to meditate. I think it was during the Wilshire-Ebell lectures in LA back in 1968 or so in which he talked about meditation police who would apprehend people on the street who appeared unhappy. Also, his courting of dictators implies something of this nature. He obviously wanted the dictators to get all their people to meditate. He must have considered how they would go about doing this. At the giant Vedic Science course in the Indian Express Building in New Delhi, India, very early 80s, during a lecture one afternoon, someone asked Maharishi somewhere in the course of a discussion about governments around the globe: Well, what would be the best form of government? He responded: Enlightened dictatorship, but this is a controversial topic so we won't talk about it. Anyone else remember that? *** What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. Lord Rama was certainly enlightened and had total authority, but he was no brutal and indifferent dictator -- He listened carefully to the people and took extraordinary steps to made sure that all concerns were addressed and everybody in the kingdom was happy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rama To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
And they all lived happily ever after. Sal On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:45 PM, bob_brigante wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. Lord Rama was certainly enlightened and had total authority, but he was no brutal and indifferent dictator -- He listened carefully to the people and took extraordinary steps to made sure that all concerns were addressed
[FairfieldLife] Re: Forcing people to meditate, was: The Feud--one lurker's view
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And they all lived happily ever after. Sal yeah-- very difficult to promote ideals during kali yuga because it is so hard to sustain them. we keep trying though. On Apr 17, 2006, at 4:45 PM, bob_brigante wrote: What MMY and the TMO holds up as a guide to the ideal form of administration is The Ramayana, which recounts how Lord Rama ruled at Ayodha for ~11,000 years some two million years ago. Lord Rama was certainly enlightened and had total authority, but he was no brutal and indifferent dictator -- He listened carefully to the people and took extraordinary steps to made sure that all concerns were addressed To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
