--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sincerity has to do with the motivation for the behavior. If one is
doing the flattery out of desire to gain favor rather than because
he/she believes what they are saying, than they are not sincere. If
they DO believe
One last try. Think of the Vatican. The place is
just *full* of toadies, sucking up to the current
Pope. Does this mean that they're insincere in
their faith? Of course not. They're just being
toadies.
But are they sincere in their flattery?
Many are. Try to think of it in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
One last try. Think of the Vatican. The place is
just *full* of toadies, sucking up to the current
Pope. Does this mean that they're insincere in
their faith? Of course not. They're just being
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
[I wrote:]
The ones who are toadies are those who flatter the
pope in the hope of personal gain rather than because
they think he's wonderful.
Believe whatever you want, Judy.
This exchange really illustrates
Charismatic in the sense of creating a mission for the people, the
followers; of someone who has vision, and the belief in it; to get
other's excited and enthusiastic to follow the leader in
accomplishing the vision; the definition of leadership.
In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One last try. Think of the Vatican. The place is
just *full* of toadies, sucking up to the current
Pope. Does this mean that they're insincere in
their faith? Of course not. They're just being
Skip the first half of your definition and you stay true to the
dictionary. As far as concern the second half: MS 'success' is not the
result of charismatic leadership. The guy defaulted to where he is
today by once being given the assignement to build the PC operating
system today known as
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Sincerity has to do with the motivation for the behavior. If one
is
doing the flattery out of desire to gain favor rather than
because
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But would he spout it even if he knew there was no favor to
be gained?
Not my concern. Bevan is an irrelevancy in my life.
I leave you to figure it out... :-)
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Neither the word nor the definition implied
insincerity
Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that
changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man.
It would be like your small town car-mechanic, grease on his hands and
all, stepped out of his garage and started to do these things and
perform those miracles..
Oh boy, would
I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific
characteristics, just noting that many people of
Jesus' time didn't approve of his behavior--
socializing with prostitutes and tax collectors
and such, healing on the Sabbath, etc. Different
expectations, but the same tendency to be
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, because he was doing what he knew to be right, not
conforming to someone else's standards. Bevan?
Whose standards is Bevan conforming
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, because he was doing what he knew to be right, not
Yes, because he was doing what he knew to be right, not
conforming to someone else's standards. Bevan?
Whose standards is Bevan conforming to?
Have you ever spent any time around Bevan? If you had,
I don't think you'd accuse him of having a mind of his
own. I have never
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific
characteristics, just noting that many people of
Jesus' time didn't approve of his behavior--
socializing with prostitutes and tax collectors
and such, healing
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Yes, because he was doing what he knew to be right, not
conforming to someone else's standards. Bevan?
Whose standards is Bevan conforming to?
Have you ever spent any time around Bevan? If you
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific
characteristics, just noting that many people of
Jesus' time didn't approve of his
It would be like your small town car-mechanic,
grease on his hands and
all, stepped out of his garage and started to do
these things and
perform those miracles..
Oh boy, would this scare the establishment?
Not as much as if it was a girl lol
How sad is that :P
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Yes, because he was doing what he knew to be right, not
conforming to someone else's standards. Bevan?
Whose standards
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Yes, because he was doing what he knew to be right, not
I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific
characteristics, just noting that many people of
Jesus' time didn't approve of his behavior--
socializing with prostitutes and tax collectors
and such, healing on the Sabbath, etc. Different
expectations, but the
Good job, perhaps you could help the list be filling out also this
definition..?
Main Entry: TurquoiseB
Pronunciation: Turk-o-ass-Be ?
Function: any?
Inflected Form(s): ?
Etymology: ?
synonym(s): ?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Good job, perhaps you could help the list be filling out also this
definition..?
Main Entry: TurquoiseB
Pronunciation: Turk-o-ass-Be ?
Function: any?
Inflected Form(s): ?
Etymology: ?
It seems to me that enlightenment (which I think
all of us agree is pretty much a useless term,
but one we're stuck with) would be pretty wasted
on a person who drew his or her primary sense of
identity from the person of power, wealth or
influence he or she had attached himself to.
It seems to me that enlightenment (which I think
all of us agree is pretty much a useless term,
but one we're stuck with) would be pretty wasted
on a person who drew his or her primary sense of
identity from the person of power, wealth or
influence he or she had attached himself to.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
snip
This brings up an interesting question -- can one be
enlightened and at the same time be a total toady?
Define total toady.
Main Entry: toady
Pronunciation: 'tO-dE
Function: noun
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
snip
This brings up an interesting question -- can one be
enlightened and at the same time be a total toady?
Define total
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
in his apparent devotion to MMY?
Well, to be completely honest, the thought never
On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote:
Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that
changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man.
You've got to be kidding. Let's see, he was supposedly a direct descendant of David, the most exalted lineage in ancient
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
in his
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend
[EMAIL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote:
Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that
changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man.
You've got to be kidding. Let's see, he
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific
Very possible. I've also read some commentaries that speculate that the carpentry actually applied to Joseph, and was used by early writers in order to give Jesus more of a down-to-earth aura, so to speak. Then again, as all educated Jewish men of the time were required to also learn a trade in
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paula Youmans [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
It would be like your small town car-mechanic, grease on his hands and
all, stepped out of his garage and started to do these things and
perform those miracles..
Oh boy, would this scare the establishment?
On Oct 18, 2005, at 11:39 AM, authfriend wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote: Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I didn't get that Lawson was comparing specific
characteristics, just noting that many people of
Jesus' time didn't approve of his behavior--
socializing with prostitutes and tax collectors
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This brings up an interesting question -- can one be
enlightened and at the same time be a total toady?
snip to
So you're suggesting
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
So Bhakti is impossible for someone who is not
enlightened (at least
to CC), according to MMY, and is impossible for
someone who is,
according to you.
In the Bhakti Sutras of Narada different types of
bhakti are deliniated. They are basically
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
in his
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB
[EMAIL
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip
So Bhakti is impossible for someone who is not
enlightened (at least
to CC), according to MMY, and is impossible for
someone who is,
according to you.
In the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
in his apparent devotion to MMY?
Well, to be completely honest, the thought never
crossed my mind. But now that you bring it up,
my
The only thing I can think of to say on the subject
is that if his [Bevan's] devotion is apparent, it's because
he *wants* it to be apparent. That is, my suspicion
is that his desire is more to be *perceived* as
devoted than it is to be devoted.
Do you think that Bevan has NOT
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The only thing I can think of to say on the subject
is that if his [Bevan's] devotion is apparent, it's because
he *wants* it to be apparent. That is, my suspicion
is that his desire is more to be *perceived*
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
in his apparent devotion to MMY?
Well, to be completely honest, the
THe original post was a reference to one of the
Richard Bach stories,
wasn't it? The Reluctant Messiah or somesuch?
Hmmdont remember. Im fairly
certain though that anyone who comes out performing messiah-like feats openly
is going to pretty much get slaughtered. No matter
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
in his apparent devotion to MMY?
Well, to be completely honest, the thought never
crossed my mind. But now that you bring it up,
my
The guy was a carpenter.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote:
Moreover, Christ was not a 'bourgeoiuse revolutionary' or PhD that
changed side - but a salt-of-the-earth working man.
You've got to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
in his apparent devotion to MMY?
Well, to be completely honest, the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Very possible. I've also read some commentaries that speculate that
the carpentry actually applied to Joseph, and was used by early writers
in order to give Jesus more of a down-to-earth aura, so to speak. Then
He was quite a bit more than a simple carpenter, by all accounts except yours.
Sal
On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:18 PM, peterklutz wrote:
The guy was a carpenter.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2005, at 2:04 AM, peterklutz wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Neither the word nor the definition implied
insincerity to me. Toady is as toady *does*.
It's about behavior, not the sincerity of
the
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Neither the word nor the definition implied
insincerity
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
So I ask again: Were you suggesting Bevan is insincere
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/16/05 9:23 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote:
Quick: how do you know that Bevan is
--- peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/16/05 9:23 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM,
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of
consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways that clash with almost
everyone's concept of how an
enlightened person would behave.
As did Christ.
Well, I wouldn't imply Bevan is Chruist
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of
consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways that clash with almost
everyone's concept of how an
on 10/17/05 10:15 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of
consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways that
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 10:15 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is
on 10/17/05 11:11 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[Caveat for the terminally literal-minded: I am NOT
defending the notion that Bevan is enlightened, just
suggesting that we can't tell from a person's behavior
whether they're enlightened or not. And if that's the
case, we have to
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of
consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways that clash with almost
everyone's concept of how an
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/16/05 9:47 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just wondering why everyone assumes that he isn't...
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of
consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways
--- peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
It's the old is behavior correlated with
level of
consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways that clash
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of
consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways that clash with almost
everyone's concept of how an
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 10:15 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, peterklutz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/17/05 5:59 AM, Peter at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of
consciousness
issue. He
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Ironic that probably the most quoted Buddhist text by the TMO
contains warnings on declaring enlightenment...or unenlightenment
as it were...
The section on the Fifty Demonic States:
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote:
Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT enlightened?
Dunno, I give up. How?
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--
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--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote:
Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT enlightened?
Dunno, I give up. How?
Just wondering why everyone assumes that he isn't...
Yahoo! Groups
on 10/16/05 9:23 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote:
Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT enlightened?
Dunno, I give up. How?
Just wondering why everyone assumes
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
on 10/16/05 9:23 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote:
Quick: how do you know that Bevan is
on 10/16/05 9:47 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just wondering why everyone assumes that he isn't...
It's the old is behavior correlated with level of consciousness
issue. He
behaves in ways that clash with almost everyone's concept of how
an
enlightened person would behave.
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 16, 2005, at 8:16 PM, sparaig wrote:
Quick: how do you know that Bevan is NOT
enlightened?
Dunno, I give up. How?
Bevan is enlightened. I know it's true because an
initiator told me.
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