Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 18, 2006, at 5:18 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] So much of what you said seems to be a natural pattern of growing up with our ideas whatever they are. I suspect that I am neither uniquely flawed nor gifted in intellectual awareness, in or out of TMO. I also recognize that this group is far from TMO is so many important ways. Ways that make this group a much nicer and more interesting group to interact with. I have not been able to have a mutually respectful conversation with anyone still in the group mindset. I suspect some of the people here have similar experiences although mine may be a little more intense because I publicly spoke out against the TMO, breaking the most important "no talk" rule of any dysfunctional family! Well, you also made it sound as though anyone and everyone in the TMO was a liar as Andrew Skolnick quoted you in his JAMA article: http://www.skeptictank.org/gs/sci603.htm [...] 'Ex-members say that the movement widely practices a style of deception some call the "SIMS shuffle." Curtis Mailloux, a former member who lives in Fairfax, Va, says the name is derived from the Student International Meditation Society, one of the Maharishi's front groups, where many members develop this skill. Mailloux says he "left the cult" in 1989 after 15 years. As a former TM teacher and chair of the TM center in Washington, DC, the largest in the United States, he is one of the highest ranking members to defect. "I was taught to lie and to get around the pretty rules of the 'unenlightened' in order to get favorable reports into the media," says Maillous. "We were taught how to exploit the reporters' gullibility and fascination with the exotic, especially what comes from the East. We thought we weren't doing anything wrong, because we were told it was often necessary to deceive the unenlightened to advance our guru's plan to save the world."' No, that's not what this reveals, what is seems to reveal is a pattern of corruption and deception at the higher levels, not the rank and file. It also implies this mandate came from *somewhere or someone*--someone pulling the financial and PR strings. Given the history of extreme micromanagement, who do ya think that might be? It's sad to me that someone who is so spiritual would be turned away because of these experiences. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Buddha shakyamuni Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 18, 2006, at 5:34 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:"Well, you also made it sound as though anyone and everyone in the TMO was a liar as Andrew Skolnick quoted you in his JAMA article:" Are you a teacher? Is it news for you that people in the movement lie, especially to reporters? I was speaking about my experience. Is it different for you? Were you privy to any lies on TMO research? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Buddha shakyamuni Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Well, no I assumed you weren't. What I was asking was there any hint that some of the research had been "fudged" for PR purposes?On Jun 18, 2006, at 6:42 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:No, I was not a researcher. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 18, 2006, at 5:34 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: "Well, you also made it sound as though anyone and everyone in the TMO was a liar as Andrew Skolnick quoted you in his JAMA article:" Are you a teacher? Is it news for you that people in the movement lie, especially to reporters? I was speaking about my experience. Is it different for you? Were you privy to any lies on TMO research? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Buddha shakyamuni Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' on 6/15/06 11:40 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am pretty sure we got this idea about his state from him. I don't think it is assumptive on our part. If you treat him in any way other then as enlightened master you are quickly escorted out of the room. It is not assumed, it is enforced. I have to agree with Curtis here. If not escorted from the room, you are certainly never welcomed back to it. Feedback that is not of the I agree with you completely, Maharishi was often perceived as disrespectful and a direct challenge to his authority. I remember seeing a fascinating tape in which a very young Keith Wallace argued *vigorously* with MMY about something or other--I think it had to do with how you could tell you were witnessing, but I can't recall the details. Anybody else know the tape I mean? Sure. Great tape. But they were having a lively philosophical/spiritual discussion. Keith wasnt challenging his administrative decisions. And even if he was, that wasnt a problem in those days if it was done respectfully, intelligently, and in the right context. But allegedly, these days Ms controllers (or those whom he controls) dont tolerate it for an instant. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' on 6/15/06 10:58 AM, jim_flanegin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. I am pretty sure we got this idea about his state from him. I don't think it is assumptive on our part. If you treat him in any way other then as enlightened master you are quickly escorted out of the room. It is not assumed, it is enforced. I can't say, never met him, except once in a dream and that doesn't count. My point above was the *assumption* that many (all?) of his followers make. Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? And also regarding getting escorted out, were those that this happened to respectful? Just curious, because we'd be treated similarly in any company meeting if openly challenging a CEO disrespecfully- not making any assumptions here, just gethering info. Thanks From what Ive heard, there have been instances in Vlodrop where people have questioned Maharishi respectfully about course fees, MUM policies, etc., and have found their bags packed for them by the time they returned to their room. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' on 6/15/06 11:53 AM, curtisdeltablues at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And also regarding getting escorted out, were those that this happened to respectful? Just curious, because we'd be treated similarly in any company meeting if openly challenging a CEO disrespecfully- not making any assumptions here, just gethering info. Thanks You make a good point here. Controlling the room is something Bush does too and I'll bet seeing Trump personally isn't easy if you are a skeptic. That did not prove my point. The question becomes, does he claim to be enlightened. I vote yes. Just because he said he was enlightened, why did they believe it? This is a deep point. I'm sure you know all about Lifton's perspective. That is my guess. My conscious rational mind was not functioning properly. Plus I believe the darshon experience is real and powerful. I just do not believe the traditional interpretation of what it means. People who saw Mao described the experience in similar terms of people's description of personal contact with a master. I don't believe it was because he was a radiator of pure being. It may just be one of those mental experiences that had an evolutionary value when not deferring to the alpha chimp could mean death. Just a guess. Or perhaps famous leaders, rock stars, and gurus become focal points for whatever kind of power they represent. The masses focus attention on them; they transmit it back. Of course, gurus and yogis like Tat Wala Baba had plenty of darshan without interacting with many people, but the principle may still be valid. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 16, 2006, at 1:30 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I also remember the effect he had on other practitioners--esp. his students--they were legendary (to put it very nicely). As I rememebr, in dharma circles, there was some mention that either he or a student of his made the claim he was a reincarnation of a Tibetan master and that never panned out. And how would it "pan out?" Presumably, for the students, there would be "recognition". That's not to say that "recognition" is some wonderful carte blanche of reincarnated "proof"--it also has it's political bullshit, i.e. you could buy an incarnation(!). I cannot remember if it was investigated, was there ever an official letter issued (i.e. from the office of HHDL)? As if that would prove anything. :-)Yeah, well see my above comments. Look, it's OK for you to dislike Rama; he did a lot of things that are far from likable. It's just that I personally think you're making up all this stuff about legtimate Tibetan teachers saying these things. I think *you're* saying them and attributing them to some unnamed Tibetan teacher. Prove me wrong...give the name of the teacher or teachers who said all this and chances are I know them, and can verify it myself.Listen, I have no need to make this stuff up. I just don't have any investment in Zen Master Rama, so I do not tend to keep material on him around for years for that very reason. Again, it's *OK* to dislike Rama and to say anything against him you want to. But don't try to make your own feelings sound more "legitimate" by ascribing them to others, eh? Honestly I'd just rather say nothing than do that. And I don't think comment coming from a Buddhist teacher or lama gives this any more validity other than the fact that this (showing off with siddhis) is a rather arcane aspect of human interaction, and therefore (due to it's rather arcane nature) not something that just Joe Blow is going to be able to comment on with any authority. Therefore I found it helpful. Actually the whole idea of magical display is an interesting one to me, that's the primary reason I mentioned it, as I thought it might also be so for others. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 14, 2006, at 10:56 PM, coshlnx wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". In addition, there is much concrete evidence that the E'd can/do perform acts contrary to nature: say, molesting underage females. In addition, in the realm of economics, about the most we can say is that economics is inherently an evolutionary process; and in evolution there is a great deal of "trying out" things resulting in a vastic heuristic interplay of forces. Even saying "what nature wants" is presumptuous tantamount to a tautology. In essence, in view of the unscientific character of such claims as to a. not E'd - problematic but b. E'd OK, everything is supported by nature; this is a typical MMY urban myth. I think it's high time - in the spirit of Sam Harris - to at least use a modicum of logic, if not a strong dose of scientific evidence. Please, no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. But we can still stay Quantum Neo-vedism said so and push Hagelin to the front, can't we?What the bleep? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 8:03 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 1:43 PM, TurquoiseB wrote: It was just a fascinating evening for me, watching her avoiding her own perceptions. I did not tell her before the talk that Rama could do siddhis, or to watch for them, and he never announced that he was about to do them, even to the point of saying Watch this. That night, a small gathering of about 50 students and their guests, he just did them ex tempore, slipping them in *while* giving a talk on something or another. And because of her mumbling thing, there was no question that she was seeing them at the time, but then for whatever reason she decided to not have seen them, and that decision was more powerful than her own perceptions. Go figure. Unless of course she was pissed because she realized he was using some form of suggestion... Some Buddhist teachers have suggested that Zen Master Rama was just doing a form of magical display (if he was not hypnotizing people)-- a kind of minor siddhi where they change people's perceptions. Supposedly much easier to do and a lot more common than actual levitation siddhi. Vaj, just out of curiosity, I'm going to ask you to back up this last paragraph by naming names. I'm asking not out of a desire to defend Rama but out of pure curiosity. I'm not convinced that you're telling the truth here, because I've encountered at least three dozen teachers in Tibetan traditions who have said no such thing about him. The worst that they said (and that I agree with wholeheartedly) is that he was a very high being who in the end succumbed to his own samskaras, and got taken out by his own attachments. No one I've spoken to has ever suggested that the siddhis he was able to perform were anything but real. See, the thing is that I happen to know that the Rama guy only met a handful of actual Tibetan teachers while he was still alive. I know all of these teachers and in general they are favorable towards him (with the caveat listed above, which I agree with). So I'm wondering which teachers you cite were willing to make such a state- ment about *someone they never met*. There are a *lot* of theories about 'hypnotism' and 'suggestion' floating around about Rama and the things he could do. But almost without exception *none* of the people suggesting these theories ever saw him in real life. So I'm asking you to 'name names' to see who would be so silly as to do this. If I can find the old email, I'll post it. IIRC these weren't people who knew Zen Master Rama personally. I can see how a magical display would make more sense, esp. if inner qualities were lacking. Had any of this ever been witnessed by a trained magician just out of curiosity? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethics and morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay of all megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' "The enlightened person,according to MMY's teaching, doesn't makemistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it'sentirely possible for nature to "want" theenlightened person to make a mistake, fornature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., tonudge the person's followers into using theirown judgment)."I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does hepull this off?--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"?If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is "true." Equallyspeculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMYwould be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd,there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". snip Please, no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people "don't make mistakes" is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it issimply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is justeasier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. - Original Message - From: Kirk To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' 'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethics and morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay of all megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' "The enlightened person,according to MMY's teaching, doesn't makemistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it'sentirely possible for nature to "want" theenlightened person to make a mistake, fornature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., tonudge the person's followers into using theirown judgment)."I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does hepull this off?--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"?If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he does are the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is "true." Equallyspeculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMYwould be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd,there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". snip Please, no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi [or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer to this phenomenon as transference), and then based on that assumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says. It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people "don't make mistakes" is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and they are yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning of an enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intention based on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it issimply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is justeasier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
The real mistake of the intellect from a true jnana perspective is the reification of any 'concept' as if it has some ultimate value. Thereby conditions are set up. The true majestic status of life is thereby undermined by the intellect, that is usurped from direct cognition instead into some new dualistic rendition. This is the truth of the Mahasidha.That all truths are merely the intellectual constructs of dvaitins. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:50 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'Nature' is a fallacy. This teaching is the bane of religious ethicsand morality. The same issue was used by Hitler and is a mainstay ofall megalomaniacs to allow them to issue any fatwa that they wish. I don't think we should give up on it so fast. I mean what if wecould use it in a more limited context. Like we could say , "I wasgoing to take out the trash but nature wanted me to watch TV."I don't think we should use it for lipstick stains on collors. Forthat I suggest the " mistake of the intellect" line. As in "honeylets not make a mistake of the intellect and conclude that this shadeis your hot best friend's."It may be in our best interest to use this, not for large scale evil,but just to give a dude a break around the house once in a while. - Original Message - From: curtisdeltablues To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 10:21 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' "The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment)." I could never get this excuse to fly when I was married. How does he pull this off? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "coshlnx" coshlnx@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: However, there could be a good deal of semantic ambiguity here, in light of how MMY defines Unity consciousness. In other words: Does he have the ability to want to do siddhis on demand, independently of what nature "wants"? If he is enlightened, then what nature wants and what he doesare the same thing; indistinguishable. This is speculation, not a trace of evidence for it. Just to clarify the context, it had to do with whether what MMY teaches is internally consistent, not whether what he teaches is "true."Equally speculative but not as much based on flawed authorities like MMY would be the statement that among the unenlightened, and the E'd, there are varying degrees of "what nature wants". snip Please,no "MMY said so" - therefore it must be true!. This is a frequent mistake people make, *assuming* that Maharishi[or another guru] is enlightened (I think psychologists refer tothis phenomenon as transference), and then based on thatassumption, interpret what Maharishi says as true, often misintepreting and misunderstanding what the guru says.It's the second part of this that causes the most trouble, IMO. At least (again) in the context of what MMY teaches, the dictum that enlightened people "don't make mistakes" is frequently misunderstood (and MMY hasn't done a whole lot to clarify it). The enlightened person, according to MMY's teaching, doesn't make mistakes *from nature's "perspective"*; but it's entirely possible for nature to "want" the enlightened person to make a mistake, for nature's own unfathomable purposes (e.g., to nudge the person's followers into using their own judgment). Another point to make for you: argue for your limitations and theyare yours. That is one of the completely different ways of functioning ofan enlightened person. Before enlightenment, it is all intentionbased on ego, which is not a bad thing, just a lot harder. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is justeasier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to supportnature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 2:20 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That was really interesting, thanks! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html Well, let's see, Ken Wilber, a rather superficial (sorry Judy) philosopher who has had a few grad-level QM courses as part of his work in biology, concludes that QM can't have anything to do with "true mysticism," whatever that means, vs John Hagelin, who published a bunch of papers in the field, including the 27th most important paper of all time in the field.He also got the Ig Nobel Prize, which is for "achievements" that "cannot, or should not, be reproduced", i.e., for pseudoscience. Yeah, anyone that listens to Ken WIlber about anything shows bad mysticism.Would that include his old friend Skip Alexander? Not only is his treatment of QM and strings (the most popular theory has 10 dimensions, not 11 --the 11th is used to reconcile the various 10-dimensional theories with each other, IIRC) superficial, but his treatment of enlightenment is equally superficial.Have you read any of his books on this topic, they're pretty friggin' detailed (not that I agree with everything he says).It was probably quite hard for him to be honest enough to come out and say a lot of this on physics and mysticism--esp. since it goes against the grain of what many of his friends are saying. Sheesh. This is the guy that everyone worships?Worships? Everyone? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. snip I know- sounds completely insane, huh? Oh well... MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email. http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could hebe? Sudra Mahesh Varma __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
A great example of this was when he came here, sometime in the late 70s I think, he apparently made the offhand remark that someone's sari was really nice, or something to that effect. Next time he came--most of the women were wearing saris, and he couldn't believe it and wanted to know why. Sal On Jun 15, 2006, at 10:42 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: Another related issue is that people often take what a teacher says out of context. A statement is made in a particular room in a particular situation to a particular person and in front of a particular audience, and some people want to interpret that statement as universally true for all rooms, situations, people and audiences. Big mistake.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:34 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.htmlAnd how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and "mystic" is a rather broad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not when he talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order to progress to higher practices... Yeah, I agree, it wasn't until I could transcend for 10 minutes that I was able to progress to higher practices--really I had no choice at that point.If you wanted to call Ken anything it could be an Integral Dzogchen yogin.Have you read this? :http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=2288 __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Flippancy isn't neccesarily a sense of humour. It's more a state of egoic conceit. - Original Message - From: jim_flanegin To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? Sudra Mahesh VarmaI vote for Bob's Big Boy! checkered overalls and everything. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Yahoo! Groups gets a make over. See the new email design.http://us.click.yahoo.com/XISQkA/lOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Peter wrote: --- jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So many people here considering themselves freethinking TMers who have gotten away from the cultish mentality, and yet, like a grain of sand in an oyster, people have made a pearl out of the utter mythical nonsense that MMY taught, which was based on lies, misappropriation of truth and others resources, and then they call him Shiva. Ha Ha. snip I know- sounds completely insane, huh? Oh well... MMY=Shiva...You didn't know that? Who else could he be? When you meditate on your ishta devata you become more like that entity and less like some ordinary human being. It is like channeling that energy. I guess in some broad definition you could call that an incarnation but in reality it can happen to hundreds if not thousands or millions of people at the same time. This effect I'm sure has been experienced by folks on this list. It is amusing when one moment I reading some articles on a Jyotish list with Indians discussing ishta devatas and then flip channels over to here and read western perspectives on it. The Indians should be invited here for some good laughs. :) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Something is new at Yahoo! Groups. Check out the enhanced email design. http://us.click.yahoo.com/SISQkA/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 3:31 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:34 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it.Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism... It's on page two: http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic?He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and "mystic" is a rather broad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not when he talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order to progress to higher practices... Yeah, I agree, it wasn't until I could transcend for 10 minutes that I was able to progress to higher practices--really I had no choice at that point. If you wanted to call Ken anything it could be an Integral Dzogchen yogin. Have you read this? : http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php? option=com_contenttask=viewid=2288 That's not what he said in the talk you referenced earlier. He said the average adult can't focus on something for more than 50 seconds or so, but that in order to go to more advanced techniques, one needed to be able to focus on a single thing for at 5 minutes.Last I checked 10 minutes was still longer than 5. I didn't notice it personally till ten minutes, but he may have something with the five--or it's an individual thing. The important thing is to understand the essence of what he's saying. He made no distinction between the average adult's concentrative ability and the adept's ability, save amount of time spent focusing.Well that didn't seem to be the point he was making, so I doubt that's important. And it has been my experience that witnessing sleep is the most common form of witnessing outside of meditation, not the least common, as he reports. I didn't remember him saying that, but it's been a while. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
OK- but I was being seriously absurd- there's a place for that I thought...---Oh, yes, that's okay then. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
So you see, I was being seriously absurd. Maybe it worked, and maybe it didn't. Just a little bit of fun. ---I think we both missed the mark and that he meant that everybody is Shiva. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 3:31 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 15, 2006, at 1:34 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 7:43 PM, sparaig wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote: On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Good points. This one interested me the most:"rather by recognizing that mysticism is completelybeyond science."It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but Ithink Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how theworld "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. Youmentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one atthat from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by mathskills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind ofdiscussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation aboutlife. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on thesetopics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spendsome more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber wherehe answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where herather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifestspirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting forthe TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think byextension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantumphysics is pretty bad mysticism...It's on page two:http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html And how would he know? Uh, he's a physicist and a mystic? He said he studied QM in college for his grad degree in biology and "mystic" is a ratherbroad term. I wouldn't term him a mystic in the TM sense of being enlightened. Not whenhe talks about the need to be able to focus on objects for 5 minutes non-stop in order toprogress to higher practices... Yeah, I agree, it wasn't until I could transcend for 10 minutes that I was able to progress to higher practices--really I had no choice at that point.If you wanted to call Ken anything it could be an Integral Dzogchen yogin.Have you read this? :http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php? option=com_contenttask=viewid=2288 That's not what he said in the talk you referenced earlier. He said the average adult can't focus on something for more than 50 seconds or so, but that in order to go to more advanced techniques, one needed to be able to focus on a single thing for at 5 minutes.Last I checked 10 minutes was still longer than 5. I didn't notice it personally till ten minutes, but he may have something with the five--or it's an individual thing. The important thing is to understand the essence of what he's saying. He made no distinction between the average adult's concentrative ability and the adept's ability, save amount of time spent focusing.Well that didn't seem to be the point he was making, so I doubt that's important.And it has been my experience that witnessing sleep is the most common form of witnessing outside of meditation, not the least common, as he reports. I didn't remember him saying that, but it's been a while. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 9:28 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: I can see how a magical display would make more sense, esp. if inner qualities were lacking. It makes sense if you weren't there. If you were there, it seems a lot like someone trying to cling to his preconceptions. :-) In this case what it is IMO is someone with a large amount of experience--an expert--sharing what this type of thing usually means. It's happened before, it will happen again. Since it violates a lot of Buddhist ethics, it kinda rules out the guy being some great reincarnation. But that's obvious also based on his actions, which were destructive to sentient beings.You also can learn a lot from how people reacted to these incidents, i.e. the old GF you mentioned: confusion, anger, etc: destructive emotions. Not a good sign.I also remember the effect he had on other practitioners--esp. his students--they were legendary (to put it very nicely).As I rememebr, in dharma circles, there was some mention that either he or a student of his made the claim he was a reincarnation of a Tibetan master and that never panned out. I cannot remember if it was investigated, was there ever an official letter issued (i.e. from the office of HHDL)? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 15, 2006, at 7:23 PM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" sparaig@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" jstein@ wrote: [...] I was going by the talk, which was represented as showing that anyone who talks about QM and mysticism is doing bad mysticism. I believe that was Vaj's (mis)representation. I wouldn't evaluate Wilber either by that talk or by Vaj's opinion of it. Well, I CAN evaluate what Wiber said. It wasn't terribly coherent, IMHO, and in fact, Vaj's interpretation of what Wilber said seems quite accurate. Did you watch any of the three part lecture I posted a while back on "Ethics and Enlightenment"? I'd also posted many other things--you've never watched any of them? __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
This reification of a concept of some 'nature' is a fallacy. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
The fully enlightened people alive right now are all dead.---Not so. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Yes, of course. And the experience of Self realization is nothing more than reaching a level of functioning where this is unimpeded. Nothing more than just that. "Practice makes perfect".This idea of a level of functioning is a fallacy. How can there be an up or a down in spacetime? It's only relative, and if one is speaking of a status of the Absolute then there can be no relative. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
I think TurquoiseB has been there done that as he has said, and seen how sidhis in fact do not change someone's basic vritti. Maharishi, as many people, masters, non-masters, call them whatever, has reified the conceptual notions of enlightenment as if they pertain to the manifest level of life. At times I applaud this effort, because I am also occluded in my thinking, but at times I also find the external emphasis on manifesting signs, very inconsiderate. Only time will tell if signs manifest in the general population of meditators. I would like it, but I wouldn't count on it in this lifetime here at the start of the Dark Ages. I suppose I think that the hope and fear entailed in the generation of manifest sidhis simply cannot equal the sublimity of realization of inner mastery. - Original Message - From: TurquoiseB To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:27 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, OK- Got it. So my question back is, what practical difference in your life would it make if you witnessed someone, even yourself, externally manifesting a sidhi? Would deep contentment well up from within you? Would you gain eternal peacefulness? Would your life be ever dedicated to God? Or would you think about how neat it was, and then just go back to whatever patterns your life has taken on?I think that anyone who thinks that witnessing thesiddhis would change their life in a major way isfooling themselves. Been there, done that, so oftenover a period of fourteen years that we all got kindabored watching them being demonstrated. Ho hum, he'slevitating again.Don't get me wrong...at first there *is* a liberatingeffect of witnessing these things, along the lines of a simultaneous "letting go" of a lifetime's dis-belief in such phenomena. At the same time there isa level of physical freakout that is difficult toput into words (Carlos Castaneda does it well IMO),as your body reacts to having its world turned upsidedown.But in the long run, other than opening you in a verypersonal way to the possibility of "more things inheaven and earth, Horatio," it's not really as earth-shaking as one might imagine.Especially if one believes as I do (and always did,even while witnessing these things) that there isabsolutely no connection between the siddhis andenlightenment. By the way, the best book I ever read of people manifesting sidhis was by one of this planet's most powerful and magnificent saints, Yogananda. His recountings are 100% true, so what more do you need?Again, I think that many aren't as in touch with theirinnate ability to *disbelieve* as they could be. :-)One of the things that strikes you the strongest whenwitnessing siddhis is how strongly your mind and bodywants to *NOT* believe what you are seeing and exper-iencing. They crave rationality and predictability andthey (mind and body) really don't LIKE having to witnessthese things that Just Don't Compute.I've seen people sit and watch someone levitate and admit it verbally as it happens and then get up andleave the room and then claim the next day that it neverhappened, and that they had never said such a thing.They had simply blotted the whole experience out oftheir minds because their minds didn't want to dealwith it.The same thing would happen with a book, any book.If someone's natural doubt about such things is trig-gered, the fact that Yogananda wrote a book aboutwitnessing siddhis means nothing more than the factthat I wrote a book about witnessing siddhis. If yourmind is doing the doubt thing, it's going to do thedoubt thing no matter who the supposed "expert" is. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arriveshttp://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 14, 2006, at 10:40 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:I don't share any of those mentioned goals. Eternal peacefulness is death for me. Deep contentment comes and goes which motivates my actions toward my goals. I don't desire it as a permanent state. I don't think we share the same assumptions about the concept of God and it's value in our lives. I am dedicated to my own goals and the people I love in my life, and that seems to fill up my world . I don't know what you mean by "patterns". Yeah, try writin' some blues when you're in eternal peacefulness and evenness.Rolling Stone cover: Curtis Blues Downsized from God to Man:Blues legend says he's given up the blues,He will now only write bhajans to the Goddess:Promises to tour the Ganges next year.;-) __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Concept on top of concept humping another concept giving rise to litters of baby concepts. None of this is helpful in the slightest way. - Original Message - From: jim_flanegin To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 10:16 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This reification of a concept of some 'nature' is a fallacy.Nature=the sum total of relative existence; infinite time and infinite space, and infinite manifestation. After enlightenment, there is not much ownership, it is just easier to do what nature wants because it is easiest to support nature, and in turn nature supports us. I know it sounds crazy, but it is simply the way it is. So intention exists, and desires exist and dedicated thought and action exist, but supported by nature. It is just easier. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now.http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM~- To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 14, 2006, at 1:43 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snipshe was so threatened by the fact that she was seeing these things and that they *weren't* being done by *her* teacher (Maharishi) that she just blotted them out and refused to ever deal with the experience. I have heard that in the months that followed she denied ever having seen Rama, which possibly ties into this whole denial thang, but also could just have been fear (at that time and place) of being thrown out of the TMO for having seen another teacher. Anyway, my point is that people who claim that they want to see the siddhis may have a surprise or two in store for them when they do. They may find out a great deal about what they *really* want. :-) Alternatively, fulfillment of the Sidhis can be just as unsettling to one's concepts. Either way I agree-- very much a case of 'be careful what you wish for'... It was just a fascinating evening for me, watching her avoiding her own perceptions. I did not tell her before the talk that Rama could do siddhis, or to watch for them, and he never announced that he was about to do them, even to the point of saying "Watch this." That night, a small gathering of about 50 students and their guests, he just did them ex tempore, slipping them in *while* giving a talk on something or another. And because of her mumbling thing, there was no question that she was seeing them at the time, but then for whatever reason she decided to "not have seen them," and that decision was more powerful than her own perceptions. Go figure. Unless of course she was pissed because she realized he was using some form of suggestion...Some Buddhist teachers have suggested that Zen Master Rama was just doing a form of "magical display" (if he was not hypnotizing people)--a kind of minor siddhi where they change people's perceptions. Supposedly much easier to do and a lot more common than actual levitation siddhi. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 14, 2006, at 3:20 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:Good points. This one interested me the most: "rather by recognizing that mysticism is completely beyond science." It is beyond the scientific method in its focus and range, but I think Sam Harris would claim that when it talks about how the world "is" mysticism enters the field where logic does apply. You mentioned that Schroedinger is a physicist, a world class one at that from what I understand. But Physics is a field driven by math skills and I don't think that gives him a leg up on this kind of discussion over say...you or Chopra. It is all speculation about life. He leaves his credibility in his own field far behind on these topics. Because you have gained something from it, I will spend some more time thinking about it. Curtis you might enjoy the following brief talk with Ken Wilber where he answers the question "does quantum physics prove god?" where he rather elegantly explains that the quantum state is not unmanifest spirit/brahman/the tao/PC. Interesting talk. Not so interesting for the TM quantum mysticism, but rather embarrassing. I think by extension you could conclude that a mysticism based on Quantum physics is pretty bad mysticism...It's on page two:http://www.kenwilber.com/professional/media/index.html __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 13, 2006, at 6:25 AM, sparaig wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I would like my comment to be separated from any connection with evaluating Jim personally. In my communications he has passed the much more important test in my world of being a nice, sincere guy. I thought the Vedic System of MMY included the Yoga Sutras as the tests for consciousness. At least that is how he presented it to us. They were markers on the path, like belts in martial arts. It seems reasonable that the criteria included in the system should be met. Well, duh...he was *selling* them for thousands of dollars. :-) More seriously, yes I think you're correct that he seems to hold the siddhis up as some kind of 'standard' for enlightenment, but he is one of the only spiritual teachers I've encountered who does. Without exception, all of the others I've seen personally have said just the opposite, that there is no connection whatsoever between the ability to manifest siddhis and enlightenment. Just FYI. Of course, that's not what he says. What he (MMY) says is that UNLESS you are able to do the siddhis, you can't claim Unity, not that the ability to [at least occassionally] do a siddhi means that you are in Unity. He also says that perfection of any of the sidhis means that all are perfected, but aside from a few famous avatars, how many people have ever been said to be perfect in any way? Siddhis belong to yoga-darshana and therefore CC (as you've been told here numerous times before). The darshana for UC is the Badarayana sutras, which to my recollection makes no mention of siddhis whatsoever. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 12, 2006, at 10:17 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote:I would like my comment to be separated from any connection with evaluating Jim personally. In my communications he has passed the much more important test in my world of being a nice, sincere guy. I thought the Vedic System of MMY included the Yoga Sutras as the tests for consciousness. At least that is how he presented it to us. They were markers on the path, like belts in martial arts. It seems reasonable that the criteria included in the system should be met. Enlightened people may or may not have math abilities, but the sutras are real specific in the abilities that they are supposed to manifest. For all the minimizing of these abilities as "normal" they are clearly beyond the range of abilities that have been demonstrated in any kind of controlled setting. With MMY's fascination with PR (he had demonstrations of hopping many times), I find it unlikely that any of his minions can pull off any of the externally verifiable abilities. If they could, I think MMY would have them on a continuous tour and I think I can guess what the tickets would cost. LOL, I've always said the same thing. If anyone could demonstrably show siddhis or some sort of scientific validation of some state of enlightenment, they'd be on that like stink on a skunk. It'd be on every glossy, gold-colored brochure, probably get a full spread in a couple of big newspapers, the media would be inundated with their requests for air time (no pun intended) and they'd be trying to sell it to various world governments for large cash. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 13, 2006, at 12:01 PM, sparaig wrote:So you're saying that someone in Unity may have not ability to perform the Sidhis and still be in Unity?No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that magical powers are usually the domain of yoga- and samkhya- darshana, not advaita vedanta. I'm also just repeating what was my impression (clear siddhis as a critieria for CC) and that of some M. students here who spent a lot of time around M. Are you saying that Patanjali didn't have any concept of Unity Consciousness, or that the Yoga Sutras techniques CANNOT lead one to Unity even if there are other things that can lead to the state faster? No that's not what I'm saying. I'm merely pointing out that 'siddhis as signposts' is a yoga-sutra thing, not an advaita vedanta thing. As we've discussed before, the primary text on jivan-mukti (CC) and videha-mukti (UC) in the Shank. trad. warns siddhis (esp. yogic flying) will increase our power-of-delusion (maya-shakti). __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' on 6/13/06 6:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL, I've always said the same thing. If anyone could demonstrably show siddhis or some sort of scientific validation of some state of enlightenment, they'd be on that like stink on a skunk. It'd be on every glossy, gold-colored brochure, probably get a full spread in a couple of big newspapers, the media would be inundated with their requests for air time (no pun intended) and they'd be trying to sell it to various world governments for large cash. All of these have already happened, many times over, even without anyone ever going beyond the hopping stage. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 13, 2006, at 3:05 PM, Rick Archer wrote:on 6/13/06 6:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:LOL, I've always said the same thing. If anyone could demonstrably show siddhis or some sort of scientific validation of some state of enlightenment, they'd be on that like stink on a skunk. It'd be on every glossy, gold-colored brochure, probably get a full spread in a couple of big newspapers, the media would be inundated with their requests for air time (no pun intended) and they'd be trying to sell it to various world governments for large cash.All of these have already happened, many times over, even without anyone ever going beyond the hopping stage. __LOL, Yes, true!But if it *really* happened you'd see TV commercials during prime time, blimps, SV billboards, etc. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' on 6/12/06 6:32 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 12, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Rick Archer wrote: This is a typical neo-Advaitin reply; a strategy Nisargadatta Maharaj fell back on repeatedly rather than saying I don't know. Sorry, this is a poor excuse for addressing the questions regarding knowledge and how acquire it. There's either a full, or partial answer: saying find out for yourself is a cop out. Forget Sidhis like levitating elephants. Let's pick an easy one, say the acquisition of important mathematical theorems. Let's see some of the new math theorems you can come up with. How about a proof to Riemann's Hypothesis. There's a one million dollar reward for this? What? Can't solve this??? Thanks. You consider this a criterion of enlightenment? You think any enlightened person in the history of the world could have done this? I doubt it. __ Ever hear of Ramanujan? PBS did a fascinating special on him years ago. He would cognize formulae many pages long, some of them baffling in their originality. He was able to do this through his purva-punya (good karma from past lives) and through a particular goddess. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramanujan None of that necessitates or confirms his being enlightened. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- qntmpkt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: ---I disagree with this on the basis of my observations of various Gurus. Some probably E'd people (say HWL Poonja) are or have a. been keeping their Sidhis secret yet have them, or b. don't have them. c. a third possibility is that they are not E'd. snip So the best solution to answer your question is for you to fully realize Enlightenment, waking, dreaming and sleeping. Then you will know beyond any doubt. This is a typical neo-Advaitin reply; a strategy Nisargadatta Maharaj fell back on repeatedly rather than saying I don't know. Sorry, this is a poor excuse for addressing the questions regarding knowledge and how acquire it. There's either a full, or partial answer: saying find out for yourself is a cop out. Forget Sidhis like levitating elephants. Let's pick an easy one, say the acquisition of important mathematical theorems. Let's see some of the new math theorems you can come up with. How about a proof to Riemann's Hypothesis. There's a one million dollar reward for this? What? Can't solve this??? Thanks. You're equating realization with specific mental abilities. Realization has nothing to do with mind. There are dumb realized people and smart realized people. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly when new email arrives http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Everything you need is one click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/AHchtC/4FxNAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
On Jun 12, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Rick Archer wrote:This is a typical "neo-Advaitin" reply; a strategy Nisargadatta Maharaj fell back on repeatedly rather than saying "I don't know". Sorry, this is a poor excuse for addressing the questions regarding knowledge and how acquire it. There's either a full, or partial answer: saying "find out for yourself" is a cop out. Forget Sidhis like levitating elephants. Let's pick an easy one, say the acquisition of important mathematical theorems. Let's see some of the new math theorems you can come up with. How about a proof to Riemann's Hypothesis. There's a one million dollar reward for this? What? Can't solve this??? Thanks.You consider this a criterion of enlightenment? You think any enlightened person in the history of the world could have done this? I doubt it. __Ever hear of Ramanujan? PBS did a fascinating special on him years ago. He would cognize formulae many pages long, some of them baffling in their originality. He was able to do this through his purva-punya (good karma from past lives) and through a particular goddess.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramanujan __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
--- hyperbolicgeometry [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ---Thanks, Jim...(below - do I have any answers of my own? Not to any single, arbitrarily picked Sidhi you can pick out of a hat, or a particular solution to a mathematical problem) (say, the Riemann Hypothesis); but I do have at least 500 entries in Sloane's Encyclopedia of Integer sequences (online). This type of knowledge was acquired by a partial Sidhi; meaning - by analogy - that one can hop before full levitation. The point is, that there are no certitudes regarding Sidhis. Certain idiot-savants have the most remarkable mental Sidhis. Helen Lutes said that she had certain psychic Sidhis before beginning TM, but that after starting TM, MMY (and her natural absorbtion in Being) allowed her to pass beyond those psychic levels. However, one can just as well have NO Siddhis and pass beyond all levels. All claims as to possession of Sidhis quickly place one on a slippery slope to the most absurd conclusions: such claims lead to an infinite regress of more, upon more, upon more: if Superman can lift a small moon, then a double-Superman can lift two moons, and so on. At any rate, I don't even accept the supposed fact of your own Enlightenment. Here's an E'd person. You can't hold a candle to him: http://www.nydzogchen.com/norbu.html Oh yeah! MY perfect being can beat-up your perfect being! FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, qntmpkt qntmpkt@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: ---I disagree with this on the basis of my observations of various Gurus. Some probably E'd people (say HWL Poonja) are or have a. been keeping their Sidhis secret yet have them, or b. don't have them. c. a third possibility is that they are not E'd. snip So the best solution to answer your question is for you to fully realize Enlightenment, waking, dreaming and sleeping. Then you will know beyond any doubt. This is a typical neo-Advaitin reply; a strategy Nisargadatta Maharaj fell back on repeatedly rather than saying I don't know. Sorry, this is a poor excuse for addressing the questions regarding knowledge and how acquire it. There's either a full, or partial answer: saying find out for yourself is a cop out. Forget Sidhis like levitating elephants. Let's pick an easy one, say the acquisition of important mathematical theorems. Let's see some of the new math theorems you can come up with. How about a proof to Riemann's Hypothesis. There's a one million dollar reward for this? What? Can't solve this??? Thanks. It's not some kind of fancy-pants 'strategy', excuse, or neo whatever you call it answer. Personal accountability is the only way to discover unambiguous answers for any of us. Do you not have any answers of your own? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your home page now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' on 6/11/06 11:58 PM, hyperbolicgeometry at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At any rate, I don't even accept the supposed fact of your own Enlightenment. Here's an E'd person. You can't hold a candle to him: http://www.nydzogchen.com/norbu.html That too is an unprovable assumption. You have no way of evaluating this guys level of consciousness, nor Jims, thus no basis for comparing them. Just because Jim has a girlfriend, likes to roller skate, and works in a normal job doesnt mean he isnt in a higher state than some guy with all sorts of cool sounding Tibetan credentials. Im not saying he is, but you cant really say he isnt. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field'
Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: 'Clarifying The Energy Field' on 6/11/06 10:08 PM, qntmpkt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com , matrixmonitor matrixmonitor@ wrote: ---I disagree with this on the basis of my observations of various Gurus. Some probably E'd people (say HWL Poonja) are or have a. been keeping their Sidhis secret yet have them, or b. don't have them. c. a third possibility is that they are not E'd. snip So the best solution to answer your question is for you to fully realize Enlightenment, waking, dreaming and sleeping. Then you will know beyond any doubt. This is a typical neo-Advaitin reply; a strategy Nisargadatta Maharaj fell back on repeatedly rather than saying I don't know. Sorry, this is a poor excuse for addressing the questions regarding knowledge and how acquire it. There's either a full, or partial answer: saying find out for yourself is a cop out. Forget Sidhis like levitating elephants. Let's pick an easy one, say the acquisition of important mathematical theorems. Let's see some of the new math theorems you can come up with. How about a proof to Riemann's Hypothesis. There's a one million dollar reward for this? What? Can't solve this??? Thanks. You consider this a criterion of enlightenment? You think any enlightened person in the history of the world could have done this? I doubt it. __._,_.___ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Religion and spirituality Maharishi mahesh yogi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___
