Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Good points. We've just learned so much skepticism about everything FIP. I'm wondering also - how do you get a vet to do something different - like a vitamin C drip? I know one vet who would and could do that, I'm pretty sure - but she's 60 miles away, and I have trouble finding free time to do drive away for a day.. Guess I just have to look around some more locally. Gloria On Nov 25, 2009, at 9:33 AM, jbero tds.net wrote: I think you all have valid points. Here are my thoughts. 1. Overdiagnosis of FIP - this is way hard to estimate because the diagnosis is difficult to come by. In fact, the pathophysiology of the disease is poorly understood so it may actually represent a constellation of diseases. In the end, however, the question is treatment. I think it is foolish to give a diagnosis of FIP if you are simply going to give up and put the animal down. If, however, you have no other explanation and the clinical signs are highly suspicious then you have to look at the possibility that it is. That's what I see happened in this case. Given that, what are you going to do. You have no other explanation, so how do you treat, do you wait until they die and do an autopsy to prove it's FIP or do you try something. I would try something. 2. Skepticism - I understand skepticism because I have tried and failed on more than one occassion with difficult viral diseases in cats. I really get that. What I do not understand (and if someone can enlighten me, I would be open to it) is how someone can see an animal suspected to have FIP, treated successfully and then say it was not FIP. How does one know that, how does one know that they did not successfully treat the disease? If someone says the only way to truely diagnose is by autopsy and the cat survived, prove to me they did not have FIP. If someone is saying it's not FIP only on the basis that the cat survived, well that's a useless statement to me. The skepticism works both ways - you can be skeptical it wasn't or skeptical it was. But in the end the difference is the treatment. I know it's not perfect science but medicine never is. So if you have tested for a number of common diseases, and all but the coronavirus were negative; there was a familial association, recent history of stress (spay, neuter, vaccination) in a young cat, and clinical signs/symptoms of the disease - short of putting the animal down and doing an autopsy, you've got a good of a diagnosis as you can get. 3. Medicine in general - Medicine is truely an art. Every individual is different. Every individual responds differently to life, stress, disease and treatment. Simply because a treatment works on one animal and not another does not mean they carry a different diagnosis. Especially in an immune related disease. The spectrum of disease presentation can be broad and the spectrum of response to treatment can be equally as broad. Does that mean we don't try? I don't think so. We all fail, it's whether or not we get back up and try again that determines our character. High dose Vitamin C appears to work for some (and there is a good scientific basis for why if you look into close enough) maybe not for all, but at the very least, it is an option where there are so few. I respect all you for your dedication to understanding, treating and erradicating the diseases that plague these animals. I know we are all trying to do what's best for them. We each may have a different approach but I am glad to know there are people like all of you with such a desire and passion to help. I have learned from all of you. God bless. Jenny On 11/24/09, Gloria B. Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: I do think that part of the issue with this fortunate situation, is that some of us have seen vets call anything they can't explain, or anything with a high corona titer, FIP, and it's frustrating, for lack of a better word. I had a lovely healthy Persian kitten that died AFTER spay surgery, a few years ago, and the vet said must have been FIP. I think the vet and his assistant probably just weren't careful with her airway after surgery, after they put her back in the cage. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote: I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP
A few days ago I posted about the reversal of FIP that I saw in my kitten Angelica on high dose intravenous ascorbic acid and have been following these subsequent posts with some bit of sadness. I believe Jenny makes the most valid arguments and in an effort to provide more details about what happened and help you see the timeline, I submit the following histories. Note: This will be in two parts because of length limits. Lukey 1. My FeLV cat Lukey died on October 1 from what we now believe was FIP. He had been healthy and given the best supplements, diet and care possible. When his furnished garage home was flooded in August 2009 we had to relocate the three FeLV cats including Lukey to the back porch while we recovered from the flooding. The stress of the ordeal triggered an illness in Lukey, though at the time it was thought he was just in the end stages of the FeLV disease. I now believe it was FIP for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because his chronic high fevers, inappetence, lethargy and weight loss continued for weeks and weeks, even when he responded to the LTCI injections and blood transfusion and his anemia was improving. At that time it didn't occur to me that some latent FIP might have been triggered by the stress of the flooding and relocation. Despite our efforts, including two separate vitamin C drips (the only time when Lukey appeared to feel better), Lukey died after placement of an esophageal feeding tube and even then it did not occur to me that he could have had FIP. However, his vet later mentioned that during placement of the feeding tube while Lukey was under anesthesia his intestines felt gummy and she realized that we had probably been dealing with FIP all along and missed it. Had I only known, in retrospect (based only on what I learned after the death of Chuckie below), I should have put Lukey on the ascorbate drips according to the protocol provided by Wendell Belfield, DVM, pushed him to the highest possible dosage (2g per pound of body weight), and continued the drips until his fevers came down and then for 4-5 days after that. We just didn't know what we were dealing with. During the time we cared for Lukey we were focused on doing everything possible to save him and his care was very hands on. Though we keep buckets of hand sanitizer in the garage and use it faithfully before coming back into the house among our other cats, it is very possible that we carried FIP into the household on our clothes from the constant contact and syringe feeding of Lukey. Again, keep in mind that we were not focused on the possibility that he had FIP. In the household were three young kittens who were pulled from a Kentucky kill shelter at just six weeks of age before they were scheduled to be PTS. At the time of Lukey's first symptoms in late August 2009 of what we now believe was FIP, the kittens were only 3 1/2 months old. Continued in next post . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP
A few days ago I posted about the reversal of FIP that I saw in my kitten Angelica on high dose intravenous ascorbic acid and have been following these subsequent posts with some bit of sadness. I believe Jenny makes the most valid arguments and in an effort to provide more details about what happened and help you see the timeline, I submit the following histories. Note: This will be in two parts because of length limits. Lukey 1. My FeLV cat Lukey died on October 1 from what we now believe was FIP. He had been healthy and given the best supplements, diet and care possible. When his furnished garage home was flooded in August 2009 we had to relocate the three FeLV cats including Lukey to the back porch while we recovered from the flooding. The stress of the ordeal triggered an illness in Lukey, though at the time it was thought he was just in the end stages of the FeLV disease. I now believe it was FIP for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because his chronic high fevers, inappetence, lethargy and weight loss continued for weeks and weeks, even when he responded to the LTCI injections and blood transfusion and his anemia was improving. At that time it didn't occur to me that some latent FIP might have been triggered by the stress of the flooding and relocation. Despite our efforts, including two separate vitamin C drips (the only time when Lukey appeared to feel better), Lukey died after placement of an esophageal feeding tube and even then it did not occur to me that he could have had FIP. However, his vet later mentioned that during placement of the feeding tube while Lukey was under anesthesia his intestines felt gummy and she realized that we had probably been dealing with FIP all along and missed it. Had I only known, in retrospect (based only on what I learned after the death of Chuckie below), I should have put Lukey on the ascorbate drips according to the protocol provided by Wendell Belfield, DVM, pushed him to the highest possible dosage (2g per pound of body weight), and continued the drips until his fevers came down and then for 4-5 days after that. We just didn't know what we were dealing with. During the time we cared for Lukey we were focused on doing everything possible to save him and his care was very hands on. Though we keep buckets of hand sanitizer in the garage and use it faithfully before coming back into the house among our other cats, it is very possible that we carried FIP into the household on our clothes from the constant contact and syringe feeding of Lukey. Again, keep in mind that we were not focused on the possibility that he had FIP. In the household were three young kittens who were pulled from a Kentucky kill shelter at just six weeks of age before they were scheduled to be PTS. At the time of Lukey's first symptoms in late August 2009 of what we now believe was FIP, the kittens were only 3 1/2 months old. Continued in next post . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 2
Part 2 Chuckie The kittens Tommy, Chuckie and Angelica, were altered and received their rabies vaccinations on September 20, 2009. (Note, again, Lukey died on October 1). On October 8 the kittens then received FVRCP vaccinations and were still asymptomatic at that time. About 12-15 days later one of the male kittens, Chuckie, became lethargic and feverish and stopped eating just as Lukey had done. Between October 20 and October 31, despite extended vet visits, hospitalizations, and negative test results except for mild anemia (Haemobartonella, toxoplasmosis, coronavirus, ELISA, PCR, normal lymphocytes and globulins, urine cultures, x-rays, ultrasounds) with three different vets including one specialist, the diagnosis remained fever of unknown origin and the only thing done for him was a bucket load of antibiotics and steroids. Still thinking that his illness was perhaps triggered by the vaccination, and distraught that the conventional approach was failing and his condition declining, on October 31 I took him straight from a week-long hospitalization with one vet to the vet I had used for intravenous vitamin C treatments for my FeLV cat with lymphosarcoma (who is still alive two years after his original diagnosis). We put Chuckie on a vitamin C drip that day of 5g daily (1g per pound of body weight as we had used for Linus) for six days, with double drips morning and evening on the last two days, and he appeared much better with his fever down. Unfortunately, the drip was stopped on Thursday because his veins were shot from all of his earlier hospitalizations and blood draws and also because the vet's office would be closed over the weekend. He still seemed better on Saturday and was even out in the yard walking around with me. By the time the vet opened again on Tuesday, November 10, however, Chuckie's condition was critical, with severe neurological involvement including ataxia and head tremors. He was hospitalized that day and the drip restarted, along with his sister Angelica who was now manifesting with identical symptoms (the third of my cats to exhibit this illness). More blood was drawn from Chuckie and sent for analysis. Where he had previously been negative across the board on all test results numerous times except for chronic mild anemia, the new results returned with rising coronavirus titers and a PCR test positive for dry FIP. He also had eye involvement on ophthalmoscopic exam including granulomas. Chuckie was so very sick on the day that these positive test results returned and clearly dying that there was no alternative but to euthanize him. At this point the vet bills for Lukey, Chuckie and Angelica have totaled nearly $4000 and had it not been for some FEMA money that we received from the flooding, we would have been in tremendous debt. Meanwhile, Angelica is still hospitalized and following right behind Chuckie with identical symptoms even including some transient neurologic involvement. Continued in next post . . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 2
Part 2 Chuckie The kittens Tommy, Chuckie and Angelica, were altered and received their rabies vaccinations on September 20, 2009. (Note, again, Lukey died on October 1). On October 8 the kittens then received FVRCP vaccinations and were still asymptomatic at that time. About 12-15 days later one of the male kittens, Chuckie, became lethargic and feverish and stopped eating just as Lukey had done. Between October 20 and October 31, despite extended vet visits, hospitalizations, and negative test results except for mild anemia (Haemobartonella, toxoplasmosis, coronavirus, ELISA, PCR, normal lymphocytes and globulins, urine cultures, x-rays, ultrasounds) with three different vets including one specialist, the diagnosis remained fever of unknown origin and the only thing done for him was a bucket load of antibiotics and steroids. Still thinking that his illness was perhaps triggered by the vaccination, and distraught that the conventional approach was failing and his condition declining, on October 31 I took him straight from a week-long hospitalization with one vet to the vet I had used for intravenous vitamin C treatments for my FeLV cat with lymphosarcoma (who is still alive two years after his original diagnosis). We put Chuckie on a vitamin C drip that day of 5g daily (1g per pound of body weight as we had used for Linus) for six days, with double drips morning and evening on the last two days, and he appeared much better with his fever down. Unfortunately, the drip was stopped on Thursday because his veins were shot from all of his earlier hospitalizations and blood draws and also because the vet's office would be closed over the weekend. He still seemed better on Saturday and was even out in the yard walking around with me. By the time the vet opened again on Tuesday, November 10, however, Chuckie's condition was critical, with severe neurological involvement including ataxia and head tremors. He was hospitalized that day and the drip restarted, along with his sister Angelica who was now manifesting with identical symptoms (the third of my cats to exhibit this illness). More blood was drawn from Chuckie and sent for analysis. Where he had previously been negative across the board on all test results numerous times except for chronic mild anemia, the new results returned with rising coronavirus titers and a PCR test positive for dry FIP. He also had eye involvement on ophthalmoscopic exam including granulomas. Chuckie was so very sick on the day that these positive test results returned and clearly dying that there was no alternative but to euthanize him. At this point the vet bills for Lukey, Chuckie and Angelica have totaled nearly $4000 and had it not been for some FEMA money that we received from the flooding, we would have been in tremendous debt. Meanwhile, Angelica is still hospitalized and following right behind Chuckie with identical symptoms even including some transient neurologic involvement. Continued in next post . . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 3
Part 3 Angelica By now, after the deaths of my two precious boys Lukey, and then baby Chuckie, it was becoming clear that we were definitely seeing FIP in all three and on the right track with the intravenous ascorbate but just not using enough. Because Chuckie's immune system had been so terribly weakened by his earlier conventional treatment with numerous different antibiotics and steroids, we were up against a wall going into his IV ascorbate treatment, and even then, I was not totally sure that these cats could handle even greater amounts of ascorbate for their illnesses. Then I went digging for more information from Dr. Belfield's papers on how he had treated various diseases and I continued to see a recurring theme - the more grave the illness and virulent the virus, the more vitamin C it takes to destroy the virus. I finally began to see the big picture. We were not using enough vitamin C. Lukey had responded to a couple of drips but they were not continued because we thought the anemia was killing him. Chuckie had responded to at least five days' worth of drips but they were stopped when his fever first went down and we thought he was out of the woods, though clearly he was not. Now we have Angelica heading down the same path to the same sad fate, and finally, I knew what to do. Angelica was put on a drip alongside Chuckie when they were both hospitalized on November 10. Chuckie died on November 11 and Angelica was kept on the drip. Because she had not been dosed with the antibiotics and steroids that Chuckie had received, her immune system was in better shape and we had a better shot at saving her. Remembering how we had failed with Chuckie, in retrospect because of his weak immune system, because his drips were too low, and because the drips were stopped prematurely, Angelica's drips were titrated up rapidly to 2g (2,000 mg) per pound of body weight based on Belfield's protocol for severe disease, and though I wasn't sure how she would handle this load, she did fine and was kept at this level for 11 days. Her fever would drop by the end of each drip and I would take her home, though each morning when I would return for her next daily drip, her fever would be right back up to 104-105. This went on for the first 6 days of treatment and by the 7th day her fever was holding down when we would return for the next drip. Remembering the words of Dr. Belfield that the animal should be kept on the drip until the fevers REMAINED down for at least four days, we continued on with the drips. By the day of her last drip, day 11, her fever had been down for nearly five days and we felt comfortable stopping the drips, though large doses of vitamin C were added to her food to prevent her from suffering a rebound scurvy effect from stopping the high dose vitamin C abruptly. To date, Angelica continues to be asymptomatic and has made her way back to baseline and beyond. She plays with the third of her litter mates, Tommy, who was fortunate enough to avoid the FIP. She eats like a pig and is getting both raw and canned food laced with vitamins and ongoing vitamin C. Though each morning I remember the scenario with poor Chuckie as I reluctantly proceed to feel Angelica's little ears and body for any sign of a fever, by God's grace and the miracle of ascorbic acid she remains cool and with each day that passes I believe we have beat this virus. Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 3
Part 3 Angelica By now, after the deaths of my two precious boys Lukey, and then baby Chuckie, it was becoming clear that we were definitely seeing FIP in all three and on the right track with the intravenous ascorbate but just not using enough. Because Chuckie's immune system had been so terribly weakened by his earlier conventional treatment with numerous different antibiotics and steroids, we were up against a wall going into his IV ascorbate treatment, and even then, I was not totally sure that these cats could handle even greater amounts of ascorbate for their illnesses. Then I went digging for more information from Dr. Belfield's papers on how he had treated various diseases and I continued to see a recurring theme - the more grave the illness and virulent the virus, the more vitamin C it takes to destroy the virus. I finally began to see the big picture. We were not using enough vitamin C. Lukey had responded to a couple of drips but they were not continued because we thought the anemia was killing him. Chuckie had responded to at least five days' worth of drips but they were stopped when his fever first went down and we thought he was out of the woods, though clearly he was not. Now we have Angelica heading down the same path to the same sad fate, and finally, I knew what to do. Angelica was put on a drip alongside Chuckie when they were both hospitalized on November 10. Chuckie died on November 11 and Angelica was kept on the drip. Because she had not been dosed with the antibiotics and steroids that Chuckie had received, her immune system was in better shape and we had a better shot at saving her. Remembering how we had failed with Chuckie, in retrospect because of his weak immune system, because his drips were too low, and because the drips were stopped prematurely, Angelica's drips were titrated up rapidly to 2g (2,000 mg) per pound of body weight based on Belfield's protocol for severe disease, and though I wasn't sure how she would handle this load, she did fine and was kept at this level for 11 days. Her fever would drop by the end of each drip and I would take her home, though each morning when I would return for her next daily drip, her fever would be right back up to 104-105. This went on for the first 6 days of treatment and by the 7th day her fever was holding down when we would return for the next drip. Remembering the words of Dr. Belfield that the animal should be kept on the drip until the fevers REMAINED down for at least four days, we continued on with the drips. By the day of her last drip, day 11, her fever had been down for nearly five days and we felt comfortable stopping the drips, though large doses of vitamin C were added to her food to prevent her from suffering a rebound scurvy effect from stopping the high dose vitamin C abruptly. To date, Angelica continues to be asymptomatic and has made her way back to baseline and beyond. She plays with the third of her litter mates, Tommy, who was fortunate enough to avoid the FIP. She eats like a pig and is getting both raw and canned food laced with vitamins and ongoing vitamin C. Though each morning I remember the scenario with poor Chuckie as I reluctantly proceed to feel Angelica's little ears and body for any sign of a fever, by God's grace and the miracle of ascorbic acid she remains cool and with each day that passes I believe we have beat this virus. Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final
I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV, URI, and other cat diseases. If I had it to do over again, each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated, for only then is the virus also eradicated and left powerless to replicate or resurface. I have also used intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics. She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.). And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and happy. As you can clearly see, the power of vitamin C extends well beyond what one would expect from a vitamin and according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in veterinary medicine. It is tragic that Belfield saw these same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine. But at least those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to you. If you have questions or I can help any of you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net. God bless each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals and hopefully this information will help you in your own rescue work. Clinical http://www.google.com/search?source=ighl=enrlz==q=clini cal+guide+to+the+use+of+vitamin+caq=foq=aqi=g1 Guide to the Use of Vitamin C Megascorbic http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_in t_assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm Prophylaxis and Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine An http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Feline_Leukemia.pdf Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control www.Belfield.com http://www.belfield.com/ . The http://www.amazon.com/Very-Healthy-Cat-Book-Vitamin/dp/0070 04354X Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM Sally Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final
I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV, URI, and other cat diseases. If I had it to do over again, each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated, for only then is the virus also eradicated and left powerless to replicate or resurface. I have also used intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics. She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.). And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and happy. As you can clearly see, the power of vitamin C extends well beyond what one would expect from a vitamin and according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in veterinary medicine. It is tragic that Belfield saw these same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine. But at least those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to you. If you have questions or I can help any of you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net. God bless each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals and hopefully this information will help you in your own rescue work. Clinical http://www.google.com/search?source=ighl=enrlz==q=clini cal+guide+to+the+use+of+vitamin+caq=foq=aqi=g1 Guide to the Use of Vitamin C Megascorbic http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_in t_assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm Prophylaxis and Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine An http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Feline_Leukemia.pdf Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control www.Belfield.com http://www.belfield.com/ . The http://www.amazon.com/Very-Healthy-Cat-Book-Vitamin/dp/0070 04354X Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM Sally Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Introducing Cliff
Hey Renee Welcome to the US. Not a great start finding out you have a little bundle of joy with a deadly virus. You do have an advantage, however. You have a chance to fight this early. I would not let this window of opportunity close. Felv cats are susceptible to secondary infections as their immune system is not up to par. Not only because of the virus but also because of his age. I have a number of suggestions although I may be too late to interject. 1. Do not vaccinate your felv cat with conventional vaccinations. Vets may recommend it, but don't. (You could try the alternative vaccinations if you are concerned.) They don't have the proper immune system to fight it. You put them in jeopardy of lots of other problems. If you keep him inside away from the possibility of picking up the viruses the vaccinations protect against, you should be okay. 2. Start any treatment now. Whether that means LTCI (from imulan), interferon, Acemannan or alternative immune boosters like high dose vitamin C, wei qui booster etc. Please please please start now. Right now you are fighting the secondary infections (the upper respiratory infections, oral and eye infections). You need to be more concerned about what's happening underneath - the felv virus working it's way into all the cells of his bone marrow leading to severe anemia, neutropenia, leukemia or lymphoma - these things will kill him. Granted some cats can clear the virus or simply hold it at bay for life but some will die from it. It's not known how to predict who will do well and who won't so if you want to be on the safe side, treat now. If you start early enough sometimes you can reverse the viral status. It may be too late now, but it may be worth trying. 3. The acute issue of diarrhea may be secondary to antibiotic use (in which case try a probiotic like acidophilus, you can get it at any vitamin store or walgreens), may be a parasitic/bacterial/viral infection (bring stool sample to vet - you don't have to bring him in for that), may be stress or secondary to food change (change foods slowly by mixing foods, a raw diet or high protein diet is generally considered the best for these cats), may respresent something more serious but I would try the aforementioned first (if there is not an explanation or improvement with the above, I would follow with blood work (CBC - complete blood count, BMP - basic metabolic panel, viral panel - includes feline corona virus and multiple other causes of these types of symptoms) I would not be idle with a felv cat that displays symptoms of illness. With respect to the other cat, I am happy she is negative, I would probably retest in a few months as she also would have been exposed. Given that she has been vaccinated and exposed without acquiring the virus you are probably safe to mix them, but there is always a chance in this. Younger cats are more susceptible to acquiring and dying from the disease so it is a chance. The vaccine is pretty good but not 100% effective. That is decision only you can make. Good luck and may God bless you. Jenny ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Amy, You have a cat in the stages that most of us dread. You have a few options available to you. You can follow conventional advice or you can take a chance. From what I've seen conventional medicine does not help in this scenario. My first question is this; Why is he on prednisone? The only possible reason I can see for this is hemobartonella. If that's not present, I fail to see the value. Prednisone seems to be the cure all in veterinary medicine and with few exceptions it simply relieves symptoms while your cat dies. I don't think you have much time to make a choice. Unless there is a valid reason for using the prednisone, I would stop it (taper it) I would be aggressive at this point. I would get acemannan, LTCI and I would probably try the vitamin c drip (I have not used this yet, but Sally would certainly be willing to help you with it). I would do it all together and right now. This is of course dependent on your financial situation - I understand the massive investment this could mean. If, however, you simply treat symptoms and try transfusion, antibiotics, prednisone etc you are simply prolonging the inevitable and only by a small amount - this will also be exceptionally expensive. Here's the thing, you have not done a transfusion yet so you sort of have that as a back door immediate rescue if you need it. The prednisone is not raising the Hct so why do you think it's helping? You have a non regenerative anemia on your hands. Unless you reverse that you're dead in the water - prednisone will not do this. You are facing a tough decision, I know, I understand and I am so sorry for that. If you leave the beaten path of veterinary medicine you have to do the leg work and fight an uphill battle. Medicine is not perfect and neither are people but I can honestly say that from what I have seem, conventional medicine has failed time and again in this situation. Good luck and God bless. Jenny ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Well Fred started having seizures 3 hours after his vet visit, we're not sure what is causing those but he is on phenobarbitol and those so far are controlled. He is eating like a little piggy and drinking. It takes about 2 weeks for them to get used to the effects of the phenobarbitol so he is pretty much out of it most of the day. His legs aren't working right now even though he does try to get up and can walk a step or 2 before he loses his balance. The blood work results show that there is possibly cancer, if so I would guess a brain tumor but the vet said it also could be from a severe inner ear infection, which he does have an inner ear infection, he was on drops only so I asked for the pills too, asked a week ago when we diagnosed him but the vet I saw then said it wasn't that bad and he didn't need them, they were obviously wrong and it has probably gotten worse again. I'm going to tell my vet I want to keep him on the baytril for wahtever time he has left, this is the 5th time an infection has come back because the vet wouldn't listen to me. He had an infection years ago that he kept getting back because they wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics longer like I requested. Fred has a really bad time clearing infections and they really kick his butt so I have to be more forceful about that. I know someone who's cat was on baytril for 8 years and she did fine. Would appreciate prayers for Fred to get over this latest hurdle ... and yes I have told him if he is ready to go I am fine with that, he has my blessing, but he keeps hanging on, he is one tough cookie!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Belinda, Wow. You have a sick little kitty. I don't know if you're looking for input or not; and I know nothing about his history but I would suggest two things. 1. Find a holistic vet. 2. Check a basic metabolic panel. CRF patients often have electrolyte imbalances that can cause seizures. Vitamin b12, vitamin e and electrolyte replacement can help. Okay one more thing. I don't know much about the approach to crf in animals but in people often times the solution is prednisone or immune suppression as the disease process is usually autoimmune. I know nothing of what has been done in veterinary medicine to deal with this. I just thought I'd tell you that. Good luck and I will pray for your little guy. Jenny On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 4:28 PM, Belinda Sauro ma...@bemikitties.comwrote: Well Fred started having seizures 3 hours after his vet visit, we're not sure what is causing those but he is on phenobarbitol and those so far are controlled. He is eating like a little piggy and drinking. It takes about 2 weeks for them to get used to the effects of the phenobarbitol so he is pretty much out of it most of the day. His legs aren't working right now even though he does try to get up and can walk a step or 2 before he loses his balance. The blood work results show that there is possibly cancer, if so I would guess a brain tumor but the vet said it also could be from a severe inner ear infection, which he does have an inner ear infection, he was on drops only so I asked for the pills too, asked a week ago when we diagnosed him but the vet I saw then said it wasn't that bad and he didn't need them, they were obviously wrong and it has probably gotten worse again. I'm going to tell my vet I want to keep him on the baytril for wahtever time he has left, this is the 5th time an infection has come back because the vet wouldn't listen to me. He had an infection years ago that he kept getting back because they wouldn't leave him on the antibiotics longer like I requested. Fred has a really bad time clearing infections and they really kick his butt so I have to be more forceful about that. I know someone who's cat was on baytril for 8 years and she did fine. Would appreciate prayers for Fred to get over this latest hurdle ... and yes I have told him if he is ready to go I am fine with that, he has my blessing, but he keeps hanging on, he is one tough cookie!! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com http://belindasauro.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final
I made some tiny urls for the links Sally listed in her post. Guide to the Use of Vitamin C http://tinyurl.com/Clinical-guide-Vit-C Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine http://tinyurl.com/Megascorbic-paper Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control http://tinyurl.com/Belfields-paper Sharyl --- On Thu, 11/26/09, S. Jewell ssjew...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: S. Jewell ssjew...@bellsouth.net Subject: [Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 12:26 PM I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV, URI, and other cat diseases. If I had it to do over again, each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated, for only then is the virus also eradicated and left powerless to replicate or resurface. I have also used intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics. She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.). And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and happy. As you can clearly see, the power of vitamin C extends well beyond what one would expect from a vitamin and according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in veterinary medicine. It is tragic that Belfield saw these same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine. But at least those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to you. If you have questions or I can help any of you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net. God bless each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals and hopefully this information will help you in your own rescue work. Clinical http://www.google.com/search?source=ighl=enrlz==q=clini cal+guide+to+the+use+of+vitamin+caq=foq=aqi=g1 Guide to the Use of Vitamin C Megascorbic http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_in t_assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm Prophylaxis and Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine An http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Feline_Leukemia.pdf Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control www.Belfield.com http://www.belfield.com/ . The http://www.amazon.com/Very-Healthy-Cat-Book-Vitamin/dp/0070 04354X Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM Sally Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Jenny, Thanks for the advice. I have certainly considered all my options and I know that this is not a good place for Wolfie to be at. I've had so many positive cats and unfortunately I know how it usually ends. This one has made it longer than any of my other ones and I would do anything to save him if I thought that something existed. Wolfie started pred after testing positive for hemobart. I tried weaning him off the pred once the treatment was completed and he became very weak and lethargic after dropping to one pill a day. The specialist at Cornell told me that the pred could definitely be helping if we are dealing with lymphoma or other issues and we all agreed that having Wolfie crash right now by taking him off the pred is probably not the way to go. I know it's not going to reverse his non-regenerative anemia. Is there anything that can do that? Nothing I'm aware of does. That's why I posted asking if anybody has seen a cat brought back by LTCI once non-regenerative anemia has been confirmed. There are some definite pros and cons to using it. Numerous vets have told me that it doesn't come without the stress of bloodwork, additional visits, monitoring, etc. If I had evidence that this could reverse Wolfie's situation, I would seriously consider it. Heck I'm considering it even knowing it probably won't. I have nothing but Wolfie's best interest in mind. I'm not sure monitoring and routinely drawing blood on a cat that is no longer making red blood cells is a wise decision when not one person out there has been able to say yes, this saved my cat from non-regenerative anemia. I hope that LTCI turns out to be a life-saver. I really do. I'm just afraid of all the hype because if just seems too good to be true. I have to think about Wolfie and the fact that he is very opinionated. He's not a cat that would want to sit at a vet getting drips or being hospitalized. I'm all for doing everything I can to save him but I also have to respect the cat that he is and how I want his last months, weeks, days, whatever to be spent. I'm trying to gather as much info as possible to make the best decision for him. I hate this disease and I hate that I might not be able to do anything to save him :( Thanks again for all the suggestions. I am definitely researching everything. I am very familiar with holistic approaches and by no means feel obligated to follow conventional medicine. I just want to do what is best for Wolfie and I'm not sure any of us really know the answer to that when it comes to this disease. Amy --- On Thu, 11/26/09, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: From: jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 3:37 PM Amy, You have a cat in the stages that most of us dread. You have a few options available to you. You can follow conventional advice or you can take a chance. From what I've seen conventional medicine does not help in this scenario. My first question is this; Why is he on prednisone? The only possible reason I can see for this is hemobartonella. If that's not present, I fail to see the value. Prednisone seems to be the cure all in veterinary medicine and with few exceptions it simply relieves symptoms while your cat dies. I don't think you have much time to make a choice. Unless there is a valid reason for using the prednisone, I would stop it (taper it) I would be aggressive at this point. I would get acemannan, LTCI and I would probably try the vitamin c drip (I have not used this yet, but Sally would certainly be willing to help you with it). I would do it all together and right now. This is of course dependent on your financial situation - I understand the massive investment this could mean. If, however, you simply treat symptoms and try transfusion, antibiotics, prednisone etc you are simply prolonging the inevitable and only by a small amount - this will also be exceptionally expensive. Here's the thing, you have not done a transfusion yet so you sort of have that as a back door immediate rescue if you need it. The prednisone is not raising the Hct so why do you think it's helping? You have a non regenerative anemia on your hands. Unless you reverse that you're dead in the water - prednisone will not do this. You are facing a tough decision, I know, I understand and I am so sorry for that. If you leave the beaten path of veterinary medicine you have to do the leg work and fight an uphill battle. Medicine is not perfect and neither are people but I can honestly say that from what I have seem, conventional medicine has failed time and again in this situation. Good luck and God bless. Jenny ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] WBC/RBC/platelet count decreasing
Hi Amy, Not sure if I told you that Bailey my + had non-rengerative anemia and epogen got his HCT up. He started at 3 shots a week that you would be able to do at home, Fred is currently getting this for his non-regenerative anemia and in 4 weeks has gone from HCT 16% to 26%, that's about the only thing that is going right at this time, everything else is going to h*ll in a hand basket!! Baliey HCT went from 15% to 40 percent on about 6 or so weeks and remained normal in the mid 30's until he passed from pancreatic cancer. He was on it over 5 months. He would have died in a few weeks had not started it, with those odds I didn't see any reason not to. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
