[Felvtalk] Supplements for Felv+ Kitten
Can anyone recommend good supplements for a felv+ kitten? Kitten is a stray, 3 mos, and siblings tested negative all on the snap ELISA. So far, we're giving her Hi Vite Drops, Nutrical, Royal Canin Babycat, Innova wet to all 3. We will retest in 1 month, and if positive, then retest again on the IFA (we know the drill). Should we add Missing Link in addition to the above, or is that overkill/not going to help? Any other supplements to try? Someone recommended a product called EZ CLEAR but it seems to be used for cats with cancer, don't know how much help it would be for felv. I also wonder if anyone has tried Interferon, or is that after a felv+ diagnosis has been confirmed? Thanks in advance, C ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Supplements for Grrr
Thanks for all the ideas and advice. I had thought of kitten food but thought it best to steer clear for the reasons mentioned- concern about kidney function- as we are already worried about that. The dang cat eats just FINE- he eats like a horse, and is easily eating twice what the other two are, maybe combined. I'm wary of getting into another bought of testing to determine why he's eating so much and still wasting away- see my previous thread. Very hard to do lots of intensive vet work with this cat. I'm going to try baby food as I think we'll be able to add it to his 'normal' rations without issue. He's still king of the roost- hardly has to look at the other two and they scatter to the wind. I think baby food will be viscous enough for him to nosh in one go with the dry. We have also begun giving him bits of chicken throughout the day- if he didn't think he was special before.. well, now his crown is almost visible. Thanks again all-Amy _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements for Grrr
Amy, I can't remember now...but, has he been checked for hyperthyroidism? If he is eating that much and still not gaining weightjust curious. Debbie (COL) The time is always right to do what is right - Martin Luther King From: swa...@hotmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 06:00:21 -0400 Subject: [Felvtalk] Supplements for Grrr Thanks for all the ideas and advice. I had thought of kitten food but thought it best to steer clear for the reasons mentioned- concern about kidney function- as we are already worried about that. The dang cat eats just FINE- he eats like a horse, and is easily eating twice what the other two are, maybe combined. I'm wary of getting into another bought of testing to determine why he's eating so much and still wasting away- see my previous thread. Very hard to do lots of intensive vet work with this cat. I'm going to try baby food as I think we'll be able to add it to his 'normal' rations without issue. He's still king of the roost- hardly has to look at the other two and they scatter to the wind. I think baby food will be viscous enough for him to nosh in one go with the dry. We have also begun giving him bits of chicken throughout the day- if he didn't think he was special before.. well, now his crown is almost visible. Thanks again all-Amy _ Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_042009 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/photos.aspx ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements for Grrr
Yes, hyper-T, didn't think of that, this is what was happening with Fred, he was always asking for food and eating really good but not gaining any weight, he was always acting like he was starving. He also yowled and if I got up he immediately got up to follow me, just in case I was heading to the kitchen and food! -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements for Grrr
PS. Fred was hyper-T and had the radio iodine treatment, he was also CRF we found out when checking for the hyper-T. He had his treatment 3 years ago and is fine, still CRF though. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... http://bemikitties.com http://BelindaSauro.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] supplements for Grr
I can't remember how old you said that Grr is but I foster lots of very thin cats for the local shelter. At first I used canned kitten food alot for extra calories but with respect to an older (+10 years) cat, my vet said that the high protein content in kitten food was not good for an older cat's kidneys. Although you aren't interested in useless calories, for very thin cats, I supplement with some Nutrical which you can get at the Pet store cheaper than from a vet, several times a day. My experience has been that Nutrical is something of an appetite stimulant. Or maybe it works that once an emaciated cat starts getting a threshold level of calories, their appetite starts to kick in again. After looking at the calorie content of foods and trying lots of things, I usually feed Hill's A/D (from the vet) which isn't so extra high in calories but is apparently very digestible and high in nutrition, Nutrical, and meat baby food as a supplemental treat to start putting weight on cats. Extra bits of nice chicken or other meat in between meals can also be a help. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] supplements for Grr
When we are trying to provide extra calories for our feral cats (during cold weather) we supplement with kitten food. You might try giving him some as treats, to keep it away from the other cats. We have one kitty who is much more active than the others, so my mom fixes him a special treat of Whiskas dry food (all our cats love that brand for some reason) in one of those little plastic storage dishes. We put it down for Tommy when he is away from the other cats so they can't bulk up even more on his treat. -Emily Sent from my iPhone ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
I have to say from my own personal experiences that you are correct, MC! _ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
and someplace susan little writes about what happens if a cat doesn't get enough arginine--it dies, if i recall the bottom line, and there was some question about whether giving lysine interrupted the absorption of arginine (but as cats die without the former, it was decided that clearly it didn't.) thanks, gloria--i'll add this to my list of references, because altho i've seen the arginine mentioned before, it was only that once, and i've never seen this explanation before! see, together, we're a formidable resource! MC On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lysine counters the Arginine that Herpes needs to replicate - ...from veterinarypartner.com... • Oral Lysine Herpes viruses as a group are highly dependent on the presence of an amino acid called arginine. Without arginine, Herpes cannot reproduce. The amino acid lysine is taken up by the virus in favor of arginine. We can take advantage of this situation by saturating the virus with lysine and thus suppressing the virus' ability to replicate. Lysine is readily available in most health food stores as a tablet or capsule. One should be sure that the formula used is free of the preservative propylene glycol as cats can have blood reactions against this compound. A month or so of supplementation is required in order to determine if supplementation has been helpful. Gloria On Aug 2, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Sally Davis wrote: Hi Wendy Since the feline herpes virus is fairly common in cats then I believe the addition of L lysine would be of benefit to cats with FELV especially if they are exhibiting cold-like symptoms. Semantics aside as to whether it boost the immune system or has some other mode of action, giving a cat that does not have the herpes virus L lysine will not do it any harm. I gave Junior lysine due to symptoms that would have indicated he had the herpes virus as well as FELV. Anything to help him fight off the secondary infections. I think you have a point about it's usefulness whether you are able to articulate as well as MC. I do not feel that this was meant to be inaccurate information. It certainly is not harmful information IMO. I also used Transfer Factor in Junior. It was not cheap and I am uncertain how much it helped. I was no longer able to afford the good stuff and I think his health slid a bit when I switched to a cheaper brand. If you are going to use Transfer factor be sure you get the 4Life formula. It has changed formulation but is it the plus form. Mary Christine you are a wonderful source of information and so passionate. Everyone here has been so kind to me and helped me keep Junior going far longer than the vet would have given him. They advised euthanizing. He lived another year and a half. Most of it good, Some not so good. It got real bad very quick and the decision then was easy. I stay in the group in case I can help. I know I would certainly do things a bit different now. I hope I am not put to the test again. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
Ain't we great :) At 02:58 PM 8/3/2008, you wrote: and someplace susan little writes about what happens if a cat doesn't get enough arginine--it dies, if i recall the bottom line, and there was some question about whether giving lysine interrupted the absorption of arginine (but as cats die without the former, it was decided that clearly it didn't.) thanks, gloria--i'll add this to my list of references, because altho i've seen the arginine mentioned before, it was only that once, and i've never seen this explanation before! see, together, we're a formidable resource! MC On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lysine counters the Arginine that Herpes needs to replicate - ...from veterinarypartner.com... Oral Lysine Herpes viruses as a group are highly dependent on the presence of an amino acid called arginine. Without arginine, Herpes cannot reproduce. The amino acid lysine is taken up by the virus in favor of arginine. We can take advantage of this situation by saturating the virus with lysine and thus suppressing the virus' ability to replicate. Lysine is readily available in most health food stores as a tablet or capsule. One should be sure that the formula used is free of the preservative propylene glycol as cats can have blood reactions against this compound. A month or so of supplementation is required in order to determine if supplementation has been helpful. Gloria On Aug 2, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Sally Davis wrote: Hi Wendy Since the feline herpes virus is fairly common in cats then I believe the addition of L lysine would be of benefit to cats with FELV especially if they are exhibiting cold-like symptoms. Semantics aside as to whether it boost the immune system or has some other mode of action, giving a cat that does not have the herpes virus L lysine will not do it any harm. I gave Junior lysine due to symptoms that would have indicated he had the herpes virus as well as FELV. Anything to help him fight off the secondary infections. I think you have a point about it's usefulness whether you are able to articulate as well as MC. I do not feel that this was meant to be inaccurate information. It certainly is not harmful information IMO. I also used Transfer Factor in Junior. It was not cheap and I am uncertain how much it helped. I was no longer able to afford the good stuff and I think his health slid a bit when I switched to a cheaper brand. If you are going to use Transfer factor be sure you get the 4Life formula. It has changed formulation but is it the plus form. Mary Christine you are a wonderful source of information and so passionate. Everyone here has been so kind to me and helped me keep Junior going far longer than the vet would have given him. They advised euthanizing. He lived another year and a half. Most of it good, Some not so good. It got real bad very quick and the decision then was easy. I stay in the group in case I can help. I know I would certainly do things a bit different now. I hope I am not put to the test again. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
Ain't we great :) At 02:58 PM 8/3/2008, you wrote: and someplace susan little writes about what happens if a cat doesn't get enough arginine--it dies, if i recall the bottom line, and there was some question about whether giving lysine interrupted the absorption of arginine (but as cats die without the former, it was decided that clearly it didn't.) thanks, gloria--i'll add this to my list of references, because altho i've seen the arginine mentioned before, it was only that once, and i've never seen this explanation before! see, together, we're a formidable resource! MC On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lysine counters the Arginine that Herpes needs to replicate - ...from veterinarypartner.com... Oral Lysine Herpes viruses as a group are highly dependent on the presence of an amino acid called arginine. Without arginine, Herpes cannot reproduce. The amino acid lysine is taken up by the virus in favor of arginine. We can take advantage of this situation by saturating the virus with lysine and thus suppressing the virus' ability to replicate. Lysine is readily available in most health food stores as a tablet or capsule. One should be sure that the formula used is free of the preservative propylene glycol as cats can have blood reactions against this compound. A month or so of supplementation is required in order to determine if supplementation has been helpful. Gloria On Aug 2, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Sally Davis wrote: Hi Wendy Since the feline herpes virus is fairly common in cats then I believe the addition of L lysine would be of benefit to cats with FELV especially if they are exhibiting cold-like symptoms. Semantics aside as to whether it boost the immune system or has some other mode of action, giving a cat that does not have the herpes virus L lysine will not do it any harm. I gave Junior lysine due to symptoms that would have indicated he had the herpes virus as well as FELV. Anything to help him fight off the secondary infections. I think you have a point about it's usefulness whether you are able to articulate as well as MC. I do not feel that this was meant to be inaccurate information. It certainly is not harmful information IMO. I also used Transfer Factor in Junior. It was not cheap and I am uncertain how much it helped. I was no longer able to afford the good stuff and I think his health slid a bit when I switched to a cheaper brand. If you are going to use Transfer factor be sure you get the 4Life formula. It has changed formulation but is it the plus form. Mary Christine you are a wonderful source of information and so passionate. Everyone here has been so kind to me and helped me keep Junior going far longer than the vet would have given him. They advised euthanizing. He lived another year and a half. Most of it good, Some not so good. It got real bad very quick and the decision then was easy. I stay in the group in case I can help. I know I would certainly do things a bit different now. I hope I am not put to the test again. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
Yep we are. I did not think to add the explanation of how the L Lysine works. Thanks Gloria Sally ed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Supplements
What supplements can be given to a FeLV+ cat to keep them healthy? Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
There are lots of things people use but Lysine is used by many people with FeLV and FIV cats as an immune support. I use this on my cats. Moducare, although, I haven't figured out how to give it to my cats yet. Your supposed to give it on an empty stomach because it binds with cholesterol and I really don't want to put my FeLV+ through the stress of pilling them everyday. I suppose you could give it with food that didn't have cholesterol, but most of those foods are vegetables and my guys aren't interested. I tried egg whites and they didn't go for that either. If anyone knows how to get Moducare into the cats without pilling and without cholesterol, please let me know. Transfer Factor. I don't have any experience with this one so I won't comment on it. Lactoferrin, I know people using this on their FIV+ cats. And I am sure there are many others. Gary - Original Message - From: Jennifer To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Supplements What supplements can be given to a FeLV+ cat to keep them healthy? Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) -- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3318 (20080801) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
Thanks Gary. These are veterinarian prescribed, or they can be purchased OTC at PetSmart or something? Ash sees his vet on the 14th so I am going to ask him just to be sure. I just wanted to go in there with some supplement names to throw at him. Thanks again! Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) --- On Sat, 8/2/08, gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 8:33 PM There are lots of things people use but Lysine is used by many people with FeLV and FIV cats as an immune support. I use this on my cats. Moducare, although, I haven't figured out how to give it to my cats yet. Your supposed to give it on an empty stomach because it binds with cholesterol and I really don't want to put my FeLV+ through the stress of pilling them everyday. I suppose you could give it with food that didn't have cholesterol, but most of those foods are vegetables and my guys aren't interested. I tried egg whites and they didn't go for that either. If anyone knows how to get Moducare into the cats without pilling and without cholesterol, please let me know. Transfer Factor. I don't have any experience with this one so I won't comment on it. Lactoferrin, I know people using this on their FIV+ cats. And I am sure there are many others. Gary - Original Message - From: Jennifer To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Supplements What supplements can be given to a FeLV+ cat to keep them healthy? Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3318 (20080801) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
I believe that L-lysine (pure) is very important in boosting the immune system. It's an anti-viral and a natural amino acid. It cannot be overdosed as it's water soluble. Some people love Vitamin C, but I don't have any personal experience using that with my cats. Best Friends Animal Sanctuary gives intra-muscular shots (versus IV, as some people do) to their FeLV+'s of Immuno-Regulin once a week I believe (although it might just be monthly or bi-monthly). :) Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: Jennifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 3:07:20 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Supplements What supplements can be given to a FeLV+ cat to keep them healthy? Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
These are all OTC, do an online search for the best price. For Lysine: I buy it in a one pound container, last time I paid $17.88 including shipping (about 800 doses at 500mg). It's powder and I just disolve it in a little water and pour it on their food, it has no taste or smell. You can buy it anyplace they sell vitamins in capsule form. I give them 250mg twice a day if they aren't having any problems and 500mg twice a day if they are fighting off something or recovering. Moducare: I think I paid about $37 at puritan.com and got free shipping at that time. I haven't purchased the others yet. Gary - Original Message - From: Jennifer To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements Thanks Gary. These are veterinarian prescribed, or they can be purchased OTC at PetSmart or something? Ash sees his vet on the 14th so I am going to ask him just to be sure. I just wanted to go in there with some supplement names to throw at him. Thanks again! Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) --- On Sat, 8/2/08, gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Saturday, August 2, 2008, 9:31 PM These are all OTC, do an online search for the best price. For Lysine: I buy it in a one pound container, last time I paid $17.88 including shipping (about 800 doses at 500mg). It's powder and I just disolve it in a little water and pour it on their food, it has no taste or smell. You can buy it anyplace they sell vitamins in capsule form. I give them 250mg twice a day if they aren't having any problems and 500mg twice a day if they are fighting off something or recovering. Moducare: I think I paid about $37 at puritan.com and got free shipping at that time. I haven't purchased the others yet. Gary - Original Message - From: Jennifer To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements Thanks Gary. These are veterinarian prescribed, or they can be purchased OTC at PetSmart or something? Ash sees his vet on the 14th so I am going to ask him just to be sure. I just wanted to go in there with some supplement names to throw at him. Thanks again! Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
here's the direct quote from susan little, dvm, head of the Winn Feline Foundation (www.winnfelinehealth.org), Lysine is only helpful for control of herpesvirus infections. Otherwise, it has no effect on the immune system and no effect against other pathogens as far as we know. It is herpesvirus- specific. And if you give arginine at the same time, you cancel out the effect of the lysine, so it would be totally pointless. ( [EMAIL PROTECTED], message #92072, forgive me dr susan!) this was one of the many times she has repeated this; i've got the same thing repeated by a major cat rescuer/transporter in another place in my files, and if you go back in the archives you'll see that i and other have repeated this over and over again: LYSINE ONLY AFFECTS THE HERPES VIRUS. it's a marvelous thing, it trick the virus into not replicating, it's probably the only thing that i know that MDs and DOs and DDS and DVMs and practitioners of every other purrsuasion and specialty agree upon. we do no one any good when we repeat information without questioning it and finding out the details and veracity. please. MC On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 4:33 PM, gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are lots of things people use but Lysine is used by many people with FeLV and FIV cats as an immune support. I use this on my cats. Moducare, although, I haven't figured out how to give it to my cats yet. Your supposed to give it on an empty stomach because it binds with cholesterol and I really don't want to put my FeLV+ through the stress of pilling them everyday. I suppose you could give it with food that didn't have cholesterol, but most of those foods are vegetables and my guys aren't interested. I tried egg whites and they didn't go for that either. If anyone knows how to get Moducare into the cats without pilling and without cholesterol, please let me know. Transfer Factor. I don't have any experience with this one so I won't comment on it. Lactoferrin, I know people using this on their FIV+ cats. And I am sure there are many others. Gary - Original Message - *From:* Jennifer [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:07 PM *Subject:* [Felvtalk] Supplements What supplements can be given to a FeLV+ cat to keep them healthy? Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) -- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3318 (20080801) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
There is this feral cat where I work. She has been fixed and her ear has been clipped. Getting her to a vet would be impossible as I imagine she would not get in a trap again. That being said she is very friendly to one lady at work who feeds her canned food. Anyway for the past couple months she has had on and off runny eyes and nose. She sneezes. Well figuring there was a chance it was herpes virus I gave Pat Junior's left over Lysine. In a weeks time she started clearing up. Baby Girl is feeling much better. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
And again, I defend my stance. Lysine deficiencies can result in lowered immune function. Period. Even if it only helps combat the herpes virus (as opposed to FeLV), it is STILL AN IMMUNE SYSTEM BOOSTER! And keeping the immune system boosted is of utmost importance in keeping the FeLV virus from kicking in. That is why we say a great diet and a stress-free environment are the two most important things in keeping FeLV+ kitties healthy, because those things help the immune system stay strong. The quote you sent says specificially that even though it helps control the herpes virus, they believe lysine has no effect on the immune system and no effect on other pathogens AS FAR AS THEY KNOW. Which means they don't know for sure it does not. Lysine is an essential amino acid that the human body needs (not sure about the feline body, but I'm betting yes), yet cannot make it on it's own. It must come from food/external sources. Lysine helps to form and maintain muscle, bone, and other tissues. Often, the FeLV virus manifests itself in the bone marrow, which we all know is when the disease causes fatal problems, such as lymphoma and anemia. While I am no doctor or scientist, given this knowledge, it's still common sense to me that an amino acid that aids in maintaining bone and tissue would be beneficial to fighting FeLV when you consider the implications on the bone marrow. I don't think there are enough/any studies done to say that lysine does not directly combat the FeLV virus/virus replication. If there are, could you kindly post those studies MC? And a moratorium on the sarcasm would also be appreciated by me especially. Respectfully, Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:08:45 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements here's the direct quote from susan little, dvm, head of the Winn Feline Foundation (www.winnfelinehealth.org), Lysine is only helpful for control of herpesvirus infections. Otherwise, it has no effect on the immune system and no effect against other pathogens as far as we know. It is herpesvirus- specific. And if you give arginine at the same time, you cancel out the effect of the lysine, so it would be totally pointless. ([EMAIL PROTECTED], message #92072, forgive me dr susan!) this was one of the many times she has repeated this; i've got the same thing repeated by a major cat rescuer/transporter in another place in my files, and if you go back in the archives you'll see that i and other have repeated this over and over again: LYSINE ONLY AFFECTS THE HERPES VIRUS. it's a marvelous thing, it trick the virus into not replicating, it's probably the only thing that i know that MDs and DOs and DDS and DVMs and practitioners of every other purrsuasion and specialty agree upon. we do no one any good when we repeat information without questioning it and finding out the details and veracity. please. MC ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
And again, I defend my stance. Lysine deficiencies can result in lowered immune function. Period. Even if it only helps combat the herpes virus (as opposed to FeLV), it is STILL AN IMMUNE SYSTEM BOOSTER! And keeping the immune system boosted is of utmost importance in keeping the FeLV virus from kicking in. That is why we say a great diet and a stress-free environment are the two most important things in keeping FeLV+ kitties healthy, because those things help the immune system stay strong. The quote you sent says specificially that even though it helps control the herpes virus, they believe lysine has no effect on the immune system and no effect on other pathogens AS FAR AS THEY KNOW. Which means they don't know for sure it does not. Lysine is an essential amino acid that the human body needs (not sure about the feline body, but I'm betting yes), yet cannot make it on it's own. It must come from food/external sources. Lysine helps to form and maintain muscle, bone, and other tissues. Often, the FeLV virus manifests itself in the bone marrow, which we all know is when the disease causes fatal problems, such as lymphoma and anemia. While I am no doctor or scientist, given this knowledge, it's still common sense to me that an amino acid that aids in maintaining bone and tissue would be beneficial to fighting FeLV when you consider the implications on the bone marrow. I don't think there are enough/any studies done to say that lysine does not directly combat the FeLV virus/virus replication. If there are, could you kindly post those studies MC? And a moratorium on the sarcasm would also be appreciated by me especially. Respectfully, Wendy Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world - indeed it is the only thing that ever has! ~~~ Margaret Meade ~~~ - Original Message From: MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 2, 2008 5:08:45 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements here's the direct quote from susan little, dvm, head of the Winn Feline Foundation (www.winnfelinehealth.org), Lysine is only helpful for control of herpesvirus infections. Otherwise, it has no effect on the immune system and no effect against other pathogens as far as we know. It is herpesvirus- specific. And if you give arginine at the same time, you cancel out the effect of the lysine, so it would be totally pointless. ([EMAIL PROTECTED], message #92072, forgive me dr susan!) this was one of the many times she has repeated this; i've got the same thing repeated by a major cat rescuer/transporter in another place in my files, and if you go back in the archives you'll see that i and other have repeated this over and over again: LYSINE ONLY AFFECTS THE HERPES VIRUS. it's a marvelous thing, it trick the virus into not replicating, it's probably the only thing that i know that MDs and DOs and DDS and DVMs and practitioners of every other purrsuasion and specialty agree upon. we do no one any good when we repeat information without questioning it and finding out the details and veracity. please. MC On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 4:33 PM, gary [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are lots of things people use but Lysine is used by many people with FeLV and FIV cats as an immune support. I use this on my cats. Moducare, although, I haven't figured out how to give it to my cats yet. Your supposed to give it on an empty stomach because it binds with cholesterol and I really don't want to put my FeLV+ through the stress of pilling them everyday. I suppose you could give it with food that didn't have cholesterol, but most of those foods are vegetables and my guys aren't interested. I tried egg whites and they didn't go for that either. If anyone knows how to get Moducare into the cats without pilling and without cholesterol, please let me know. Transfer Factor. I don't have any experience with this one so I won't comment on it. Lactoferrin, I know people using this on their FIV+ cats. And I am sure there are many others. Gary - Original Message - From: Jennifer To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 3:07 PM Subject: [Felvtalk] Supplements What supplements can be given to a FeLV+ cat to keep them healthy? Jennifer - PROUD VEGETARIAN LOCAL SPCA VOLUNTEER. Be their voice. ~ loving mama to ~ Morrison (born Oct. 10, 2000) Isobel aka Fat Girl (born Feb. 7, 2007) Ash (born July 11, 2007, diagnosed FeLV+ July 28, 2008) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3318 (20080801) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
Ferals will frequently get back in the cage..I have had to release the five who stay at my Mom's more times than I can count and so have her neighbors. On Aug 2, 2008, at 5:30 PM, Sally Davis wrote: There is this feral cat where I work. She has been fixed and her ear has been clipped. Getting her to a vet would be impossible as I imagine she would not get in a trap again. That being said she is very friendly to one lady at work who feeds her canned food. Anyway for the past couple months she has had on and off runny eyes and nose. She sneezes. Well figuring there was a chance it was herpes virus I gave Pat Junior's left over Lysine. In a weeks time she started clearing up. Baby Girl is feeling much better. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
Hi Wendy Since the feline herpes virus is fairly common in cats then I believe the addition of L lysine would be of benefit to cats with FELV especially if they are exhibiting cold-like symptoms. Semantics aside as to whether it boost the immune system or has some other mode of action, giving a cat that does not have the herpes virus L lysine will not do it any harm. I gave Junior lysine due to symptoms that would have indicated he had the herpes virus as well as FELV. Anything to help him fight off the secondary infections. I think you have a point about it's usefulness whether you are able to articulate as well as MC. I do not feel that this was meant to be inaccurate information. It certainly is not harmful information IMO. I also used Transfer Factor in Junior. It was not cheap and I am uncertain how much it helped. I was no longer able to afford the good stuff and I think his health slid a bit when I switched to a cheaper brand. If you are going to use Transfer factor be sure you get the 4Life formula. It has changed formulation but is it the plus form. Mary Christine you are a wonderful source of information and so passionate. Everyone here has been so kind to me and helped me keep Junior going far longer than the vet would have given him. They advised euthanizing. He lived another year and a half. Most of it good, Some not so good. It got real bad very quick and the decision then was easy. I stay in the group in case I can help. I know I would certainly do things a bit different now. I hope I am not put to the test again. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
Colostrum is wonderful as far as I am concerned for any stressed animal. The two feral kittens I have been adopted by are getting it daily. They had a hard beginning. I want them to have everything I can think of to help them overcome it. They are also getting probiotics, grain free food etc. They have not been tested for FeLV or FIV yet. And I have not had them vaccinated for anything. They are inside so, as far as I am concerned, I can give them some extra time to gain weight and just be. I have been told that colostrum can be used if Transfer Factor is out of the question. I have used it on cats. Please remember I believe in a combination of traditional and alternative vets. The first place Dixie Louise went after we took execution off the table was to Dr. Betty Boswell. Betty saw her regularly until the day she died. Dixie was extremely healthy until very shortly (like days) before she left this world and her exit was fairly easy and quick. On Aug 2, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Sally Davis wrote: Hi Wendy Since the feline herpes virus is fairly common in cats then I believe the addition of L lysine would be of benefit to cats with FELV especially if they are exhibiting cold-like symptoms. Semantics aside as to whether it boost the immune system or has some other mode of action, giving a cat that does not have the herpes virus L lysine will not do it any harm. I gave Junior lysine due to symptoms that would have indicated he had the herpes virus as well as FELV. Anything to help him fight off the secondary infections. I think you have a point about it's usefulness whether you are able to articulate as well as MC. I do not feel that this was meant to be inaccurate information. It certainly is not harmful information IMO. I also used Transfer Factor in Junior. It was not cheap and I am uncertain how much it helped. I was no longer able to afford the good stuff and I think his health slid a bit when I switched to a cheaper brand. If you are going to use Transfer factor be sure you get the 4Life formula. It has changed formulation but is it the plus form. Mary Christine you are a wonderful source of information and so passionate. Everyone here has been so kind to me and helped me keep Junior going far longer than the vet would have given him. They advised euthanizing. He lived another year and a half. Most of it good, Some not so good. It got real bad very quick and the decision then was easy. I stay in the group in case I can help. I know I would certainly do things a bit different now. I hope I am not put to the test again. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements
I will let Pat know. I imagine she needs her rabies vacination as I am sure it has been more than 3 years. Actually there is a couple feral colonies nearby and they are trapped and neutered etc she has never gone into the traps. Sally On ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
lysine won't hurt; some vets say ALL cats should be on it, but i don't think it's fair for people who are desperately seeking help for their immune-compromised babies to think that something will do something that it cannot. as i said, i think it's pretty darned miraculous enough as it is! and when we talk to the vets who don't want to believe us in the first place, saying things that are NOT accurate just gives them more reason to ignore us or minimize us. like the 70% figure that was anecdotal in sanctuaries and amongst mutli-FeLV homes for so long--it's NOW right there in the Merck, and they can't ignore THAT--before it made it to the Merck tho, it was just we crackpots if we want them to take us seriously, we have to know MORE than they do--which, as in the old joke about women needing to work twice as hard, isn't that difficult. we can NEVER underestimate how little knowledge many, many vets seem to have about FeLV, FIV and FIP. i could apologize for getting so passionate about this, but i won't, because it's just SO important that SOMEONE have accurate, current information--and it seems that it's up to us to be those someones. MC On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Wendy Since the feline herpes virus is fairly common in cats then I believe the addition of L lysine would be of benefit to cats with FELV especially if they are exhibiting cold-like symptoms. Semantics aside as to whether it boost the immune system or has some other mode of action, giving a cat that does not have the herpes virus L lysine will not do it any harm. I gave Junior lysine due to symptoms that would have indicated he had the herpes virus as well as FELV. Anything to help him fight off the secondary infections. I think you have a point about it's usefulness whether you are able to articulate as well as MC. I do not feel that this was meant to be inaccurate information. It certainly is not harmful information IMO. I also used Transfer Factor in Junior. It was not cheap and I am uncertain how much it helped. I was no longer able to afford the good stuff and I think his health slid a bit when I switched to a cheaper brand. If you are going to use Transfer factor be sure you get the 4Life formula. It has changed formulation but is it the plus form. Mary Christine you are a wonderful source of information and so passionate. Everyone here has been so kind to me and helped me keep Junior going far longer than the vet would have given him. They advised euthanizing. He lived another year and a half. Most of it good, Some not so good. It got real bad very quick and the decision then was easy. I stay in the group in case I can help. I know I would certainly do things a bit different now. I hope I am not put to the test again. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Supplements/lysine
Lysine counters the Arginine that Herpes needs to replicate - ...from veterinarypartner.com... • Oral Lysine Herpes viruses as a group are highly dependent on the presence of an amino acid called arginine. Without arginine, Herpes cannot reproduce. The amino acid lysine is taken up by the virus in favor of arginine. We can take advantage of this situation by saturating the virus with lysine and thus suppressing the virus' ability to replicate. Lysine is readily available in most health food stores as a tablet or capsule. One should be sure that the formula used is free of the preservative propylene glycol as cats can have blood reactions against this compound. A month or so of supplementation is required in order to determine if supplementation has been helpful. Gloria On Aug 2, 2008, at 6:11 PM, Sally Davis wrote: Hi Wendy Since the feline herpes virus is fairly common in cats then I believe the addition of L lysine would be of benefit to cats with FELV especially if they are exhibiting cold-like symptoms. Semantics aside as to whether it boost the immune system or has some other mode of action, giving a cat that does not have the herpes virus L lysine will not do it any harm. I gave Junior lysine due to symptoms that would have indicated he had the herpes virus as well as FELV. Anything to help him fight off the secondary infections. I think you have a point about it's usefulness whether you are able to articulate as well as MC. I do not feel that this was meant to be inaccurate information. It certainly is not harmful information IMO. I also used Transfer Factor in Junior. It was not cheap and I am uncertain how much it helped. I was no longer able to afford the good stuff and I think his health slid a bit when I switched to a cheaper brand. If you are going to use Transfer factor be sure you get the 4Life formula. It has changed formulation but is it the plus form. Mary Christine you are a wonderful source of information and so passionate. Everyone here has been so kind to me and helped me keep Junior going far longer than the vet would have given him. They advised euthanizing. He lived another year and a half. Most of it good, Some not so good. It got real bad very quick and the decision then was easy. I stay in the group in case I can help. I know I would certainly do things a bit different now. I hope I am not put to the test again. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
