On 14 January 2011 08:54, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.net wrote:
Centered whole rests are fine (what could be less ambiguous?) for empty
measures in any meter.
Not in 4/2.
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Finale@shsu.edu
On 14 Jan 2011, at 00:59, Richard Yates wrote:
You can still use automatic music spacing (for instance in Speedy
Entry or
adding articulations) on later measures without it affecting earlier
spacing
UNTIL you do an Update Layout for the whole document.
I can't live without an Update
On 14 Jan 2011, at 02:23, mjol...@ticnet.com wrote:
Ok. I'm already playing with page number offsets as well..
A shame that it can't be specified or at least follow the offset page
number to determine left and right rather than the real page number.
Ah, but one can specify the offset page.
I'd like to add another option: turn off or hide courtesy time
signature on an individual basis..
In general I'd like to be able to move anything anywhere, hide
anything at all and lose the space given to hidden items if and only
if I want.
Steve P.
On 14 Jan 2011, at 03:25, Brian
On 14 Jan 2011, at 03:18, SN jef chippewa wrote:
i never use auto-spacing, so maybe i'm not the right person to
comment on this, but doesn't it only affect measures you
enter (speedy/simple)? so you could do half a score and adjust
and know that the only changes to what you have already
In a message dated 1/14/2011 6:29:07 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
finale-requ...@shsu.edu writes:
Ah, but one can specify the offset page. When one defines a text block
containing a page number, one can define the block to apply to only
left
pages or only right pages. So what I do is
I using the latest version (2011c) and need to adjust the Expression
Metatool settings - these used to be in the Expressions Menu, and the manual
still lists Metatools as being in the menu, but when I go there, it does not
list anything for metatools. Any idea where the settings are located?
Is it 100% correct that it [Update Layout] only changes measure widths?
If incorporate manual positioning is checked, then tweaks to spacing
inside a measure are preserved proportionately when Update Layout changes
measure widths.
Is it possible to lock measure widths?
Not that I know of.
On 1/14/2011 9:17 AM, Rob Deemer wrote:
I using the latest version (2011c) and need to adjust the Expression
Metatool settings - these used to be in the Expressions Menu, and the manual
still lists Metatools as being in the menu, but when I go there, it does not
list anything for metatools. Any
On Jan 14, 2011, at 3:15 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
I'd like to add another option: turn off or hide courtesy time signature on
an individual basis..
Selection Tool/Edit Measure Attributes/Hide Cautionary Time Sig.
In general I'd like to be able to move anything anywhere, hide anything at all
Do you mean you need to change the hot keys to which they are assigned? This
is possible: Expression Tool/Shift + the key you want for the Metatool
assignment.
Chuck
On Jan 14, 2011, at 6:17 AM, Rob Deemer wrote:
I using the latest version (2011c) and need to adjust the Expression
You can and should turn on Automatic Update Layout in the Program Options.
Cheers,
- DJA
-
WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
On 14 Jan 2011, at 5:57 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
I can't live without an Update Layout every three seconds - Finale behaves
hideously without it!
Really? Why? What is ambiguous about a centered whole rest in an empty measure
of 4/2?
If a whole rest appears in a non-empty measure, it won't be centered -- it will
be attached to a beat. And, you know, there will also be notes in the measure.
Cheers,
- DJA
-
WEB:
Ok. Although I find that update layout cures all manner of other
gremlins and evils too.
Steve P.
On 14 Jan 2011, at 14:30, Richard Yates wrote:
No. Update Layout affects only the width and number of measures in
systems.
It has no effect on relative spacing adjustments inside a measure
Hi Chuck,
On 14 Jan 2011, at 15:03, Chuck Israels wrote:
On Jan 14, 2011, at 3:15 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
I'd like to add another option: turn off or hide courtesy time
signature on an individual basis..
Selection Tool/Edit Measure Attributes/Hide Cautionary Time Sig.
Brilliant!
In
I sent a message about this from my iPhone but I think the list's spam
filter must have caught it. Ross suggests that industry practice (obviously,
when he was writing) was to use double-whole rests for 4/2 and longer
meters. I would further extrapolate that quadruple whole (meaning a thick
line
Not sure if you're aware of a couple of keyboard shortcuts that help me with
this: hitting the escape key twice takes you to the selection tool;
double-clicking an item (in the selection tool) takes you to that item's
tool.
Don Hart
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 9:48 AM, Steve Parker
Without denigrating anyone else on the list and with grateful thanks
to everybody,
I cannot believe I'm being helped by Chuck Israels!!
(Assuming you are that Chuck Israels..)
Thank you Chuck!!
Steve P.
On 14 Jan 2011, at 15:03, Chuck Israels wrote:
Yes, and the main reason is that a centred semibreve rest is practically
identical to a semibreve rest on the second semibreve of a 4/2 bar. This is
extremely confusing in contrapuntal writing, especially (but not
exclusively) if multiple (two or three) voices are written on a single
staff.
Hi Robert,
I know it's tradition but it's one that feels awfully antiquated to me. I also
disagree with Ross on 7/4: I have no problem using (non-centered) metrical
whole rests in 7/4 -- in 4+3 or 3+4 subdivisions, they often help clarify the
nature of the subdivision. And of course I use
Hi Andrew,
Ah -- I hadn't considered the possibility of multiple voices on a single staff.
You have a point there.
Cheers,
- DJA
-
WEB: http://www.secretsocietymusic.org
On 14 Jan 2011, at 11:18 AM, Andrew Moschou wrote:
Yes, and the main reason is that a centred semibreve rest is
I would stipulate that if the practice is less prevalent now, it is
primarily due to ignorance (caused among other things by notation program
defaults) and the fact that 4/2 and longer meters are so extremely rare in
contemporary music. That said, I expect most editors for major publishing
houses
Yes. For me escape key once takes me there - on mac.
The trouble with complaining about things like this is that it always
seems petty to ask for one mouse click rather than two.
But workflow *is* petty and those clicks add up. ;-)
Steve P.
On 14 Jan 2011, at 16:11, Don Hart wrote:
Not
Hi Robert,
As I said, my experience is that whole rests in 7/4 (and half rests in 7/8)
increase clarity. If, for instance, the beaming pattern in 7/8 is 4+3, why
*wouldn't* you use a half rest for the 4? The whole point is to help the
reader see the 4+3 subdivision instantly, not obscure it.
It didn't take me long to find an example of something that trips me up.
I can't double-click an accidental to move it nor to take me to its
tool.
I also can't click one to choose to hide it.
I do know where the accidental mover is in the special tools but I
think that all elements in a GUI
My questions will be at an end soon...
Is there any way to replace say all the glissandi with another shape
(retrospectivally)?
I remember reading before about gliss./accidental/dot collision - was
there ever a solution?
Thanks,
Steve P.
___
On Jan 14, 2011, at 9:29 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
It didn't take me long to find an example of something that trips me up.
I can't double-click an accidental to move it nor to take me to its tool.
I also can't click one to choose to hide it.
This seems like a good idea to me. I am so used to
I've had a look over my own scores which have 4/2 in them.
In practice the single semibreve rest doesn't seem ambiguous.
Especially with consecutive empty bars of 3/2 and 4/2 different whole
bar rests look funny.
Steve P.
On 14 Jan 2011, at 16:42, Robert Patterson wrote:
I would stipulate
On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
Without denigrating anyone else on the list and with grateful thanks to
everybody,
I cannot believe I'm being helped by Chuck Israels!!
(Assuming you are that Chuck Israels..)
Thank you Chuck!!
You're welcome, Steve.
Having been helped,
Steve,
There are ways to speed workflow in Finale, but they take time to set up.
QuicKey macros and shortcuts can help. I know copyist/engravers who have
pretty elaborate set ups with extra keyboards (I use a small one) to trigger
QuicKeys to reduce buried menu items and dialog box
FWIW: The famous 11/4 bar in the Rite of Spring has regular whole rests in
the tacet staves.
As for use of half-rests in 7/8, etc., it's your music and (I presume) you
aren't contending with an editor, so do it however you like. I do not do it
that way, however.
I wish I was a new user... I'm actually reasonably proficient. Just
copied a show of 1000+ pages in a weekend!
I've been working in Finale for a couple of years but am making a
concerted effort to solve the myriad of workarounds and kludges I've
developed..
I have another example that
On Fri Jan 14, at FridayJan 14 12:59 PM, Steve Parker wrote:
I wish I was a new user... I'm actually reasonably proficient. Just copied a
show of 1000+ pages in a weekend!
I've been working in Finale for a couple of years but am making a concerted
effort to solve the myriad of workarounds
I'm sure it is not needed...but..
A massive thanks to all who have helped!!
I'm aware that I've fairly flooded the list..
I hope to return the favour (or favor!) at some point!
Steve P.
On 14 Jan 2011, at 17:21, Chuck Israels wrote:
On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:51 AM, Steve Parker wrote:
Without
At 7:43 PM +1030 1/14/11, Andrew Moschou wrote:
On 14 January 2011 08:54, Darcy James Argue djar...@earthlink.net wrote:
Centered whole rests are fine (what could be less ambiguous?) for empty
measures in any meter.
Not in 4/2.
Yes, I've been told that. My feeling is that only an idiot
On 1/14/2011 12:33 PM, Steve Parker wrote:
Is there any way to replace say all the glissandi with another shape
(retrospectivally)?
I think TGTools Special Modifications | Alter Smart Shapes will do what
you want.
I remember reading before about gliss./accidental/dot collision - was
there
Linked parts are the way to go, no doubt about it. The amount of time saved is
frightening compared to the old methods (every time I have to go back to an old
file with extracted parts I cringe).
With a little skill and plain thinking 'out of the box' you can become really
wily at getting
Yes, the rule about needing more than a whole rest in larger meters is
archaic.
I keep my critical edition of the Rite next to other notation manuals. Most
situations are encountered in it.
Raymond Horton
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Robert Patterson
rob...@robertgpatterson.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Raymond Horton
horton.raym...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes, the rule about needing more than a whole rest in larger meters is
archaic.
Hmmm. Says you. The 11/4 bar in the Rite notwithstanding, the last time I
wrote a piece in 4/2, all of a sudden the double whole rest
If you use a double whole rest in successive measures, will Finale create
the appropriate multi-measure rest automatically?
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Robert Patterson
rob...@robertgpatterson.com wrote:
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Raymond Horton
horton.raym...@gmail.comwrote:
On 1/14/2011 11:18 AM, Andrew Moschou wrote:
Yes, and the main reason is that a centred semibreve rest is practically
identical to a semibreve rest on the second semibreve of a 4/2 bar. This is
extremely confusing in contrapuntal writing, especially (but not
exclusively) if multiple (two or
No, getting Finale to do it requires lots of extra manual steps. That's why
it is understandable that many users may not see the value in it, especially
since the practice is in flux.
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Ryan ry.squa...@gmail.com wrote:
If you use a double whole rest in successive
On 1/14/2011 11:26 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote:
Hi Andrew,
Ah -- I hadn't considered the possibility of multiple voices on a single staff.
You have a point there.
But, in your defense, you did say otherwise empty or some such
indication, and in a bar with multiple voices on the same staff,
I always use the 'archaic' multibar rests up to seven bars, with a
number.
I like them!
Steve P.
On 14 Jan 2011, at 19:18, Robert Patterson wrote:
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Raymond Horton
horton.raym...@gmail.comwrote:
Yes, the rule about needing more than a whole rest in larger
Yes, you can get Finale to show a double-whole rest as the DEFAULT rest, but
only for the entire document, so you will have to adopt other tactics if you
have a changing time signature.
Document OptionsNotes and RestsRest Characters scroll to Default Measure Rest
and select character 227 (on
On 2011-01-14 18:29, Steve Parker wrote:
It didn't take me long to find an example of something that trips me up.
I can't double-click an accidental to move it nor to take me to its tool.
I also can't click one to choose to hide it.
I do know where the accidental mover is in the special tools
I do too. But I use them for up to 9 bars.
I've seen some in published editions that go up to 32 bars or even more.
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote:
I always use the 'archaic' multibar rests up to seven bars, with a number.
I like them!
Steve P.
At 1:19 PM -0800 1/14/11, Ryan wrote:
I do too. But I use them for up to 9 bars.
I've seen some in published editions that go up to 32 bars or even more.
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Steve Parker st...@pinkrat.co.uk wrote:
I always use the 'archaic' multibar rests up to seven bars, with
On 14 Jan 2011, at 21:27, Jari Williamsson wrote:
It's only the main tools and the Graphics Tool that have Selection
Tool connections. Regarding the Special Tools, it would make sense
for accidentals and dots and perhaps also for ties, but would it
really make sense for anything else in
On 1/14/2011 2:30 PM, Ryan wrote:
If you use a double whole rest in successive measures, will Finale create
the appropriate multi-measure rest automatically?
No -- Finale only creates multi-measure rests automatically if the
measures are completely empty. Finale's default whole rests are
On 14 Jan 2011 at 9:53, Robert Patterson wrote:
To my eye, a whole rest in a 4/2 bar, even if it is centered, is
ambiguous. That is because it also appears as a half-bar rest in that
meter. In no shorter meter can a whole rest appear as a partial bar
rest. Even in 6/2 or 7/4, Ross prescribes
On 14 Jan 2011 at 13:40, Robert Patterson wrote:
On Fri, Jan 14, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Ryan ry.squa...@gmail.com wrote:
If you use a double whole rest in successive measures, will Finale
create the appropriate multi-measure rest automatically?
No, getting Finale to do it requires lots of
On 14 Jan 2011, at 22:43, David W. Fenton wrote:
Unfortunately, there's one passage that alternates bars of 4/2 and
3/1, and so that's going to have to be written-out empty measures, as
any kind of multi-measure rest would be way confusing.
Not sure if relevant..
If strict alternation, then
On 14 Jan 2011 at 23:34, Steve Parker wrote:
On 14 Jan 2011, at 22:43, David W. Fenton wrote:
Unfortunately, there's one passage that alternates bars of 4/2 and
3/1, and so that's going to have to be written-out empty measures,
as any kind of multi-measure rest would be way confusing.
At 5:43 PM -0500 1/14/11, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 14 Jan 2011 at 17:11, John Howell wrote:
But the practice goes back to the 13th century and was a necessary one
in music in which barlines were never used. THAT is what makes it
archaic, since using a number automatically makes it a
On 14 Jan 2011 at 20:26, John Howell wrote:
At 5:43 PM -0500 1/14/11, David W. Fenton wrote:
On 14 Jan 2011 at 17:11, John Howell wrote:
But the practice goes back to the 13th century and was a necessary
one in music in which barlines were never used. THAT is what
makes it archaic,
At 7:05 PM -0500 1/14/11, David W. Fenton wrote:
I still marvel at the fact that they could keep this stuff together
just by counting the right number of whole notes.
Not necessarily whole notes (semibreves). Going back to the first
mensural notation in the late 13th century, one has to
At 8:52 PM -0500 1/14/11, David W. Fenton wrote:
I'm not sure I'd finger Finale's problems with being measure-based
here for the issue, as I think creating countable rests is something
that transcends the issue of how the stuff is notated. As I said, I
don't know how you rehearse without
At 12:27 PM -0800 1/13/11, Ryan wrote:
Opinion poll:
What is your preferred method of writing a note that sounds for the duration
of a 5/4 bar?
1) Using Whole tied to Quarter, regardless of wether the division is 3+2 or
2+3
2) Using a Halfs and Dotted Halfs tied to each other to reflect the
At 2:06 PM -0800 1/13/11, Ryan wrote:
Raymond, I'd LOVE to use Crumb's notation, but there's no quick easy way
to get that into Finale.
Thanks for all your opinions. Seems like I agree with most of you. Now,
here's a follow-up:
I'm working on a piece in 5/4. The composer wrote this as kind of
On 1/13/2011 3:57 PM, John Howell wrote:
At 12:27 PM -0800 1/13/11, Ryan wrote:
Opinion poll:
What is your preferred method of writing a note that sounds for the
duration
of a 5/4 bar?
1) Using Whole tied to Quarter, regardless of wether the division is
3+2 or
2+3
2) Using a Halfs and Dotted
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