Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Allen, this needs to be made clear in the documentation. If you look at the page on tempo marking, you'll see it still says: Note that you can easily generate full-featured metronome marking expressions with the Create Tempo Marking plug-in. See Create Tempo Marking Plug-in. This links to a page about the plug-in. Michael On 16 Nov 2008, at 06:09, Allen Fisher wrote: Tempo markings have always been expressions. This functionality was separated from the expression tool, making it hard to find for many people. The create tempo marking PI also did not use the new expression functionality. Now, everything's in the expression tool, doesn't require switching tools, obeys staff lists, and can be assigned a metatool. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
So rather than modify the plugin to use the new expressions, it gets deleted. So instead of a simple highlight the measure and go to the plugin and type in some simple things, it is now buried in the expression designer, a good 3+ clicks more than before? The old philosophy of MakeMusic would have been to keep the old way and allow the new way. Having multiple ways of doing things has always been the hallmark of why many of us have stuck with Finale rather than being pigeon-toed into Sibelius. So...what other deletions can we expect in Finale 2010? Maybe Speedy Entry will fall victim because it is hard for many people, or doesn't conform to some new functionality? On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Allen Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tempo markings have always been expressions. This functionality was separated from the expression tool, making it hard to find for many people. The create tempo marking PI also did not use the new expression functionality. Now, everything's in the expression tool, doesn't require switching tools, obeys staff lists, and can be assigned a metatool. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
I would call it buried in the expression designer. Double-click in the score to see the list of expressions. If the tempo marking you want is already there, just use it. If it isn't already there, one click takes you to the Expression Designer where you can create the tempo marking. If you use the old plug-in, you have the choice: either you go straight to the plug-in, at the risk of unnecessarily creating a tempo marking that already exists in the expressions library, or you check first with the expression tool to see if the marking you want is already there. If it is, all's well and good. If it isn't, you'll need to cancel the expression selection dialog, change tools, select the measure and make a choice in the plug-in menu to get to the point where you can create the expression: considerably more work than just one click to get to the Expression Designer. On 16 Nov 2008, at 10:23, Eric Dannewitz wrote: So rather than modify the plugin to use the new expressions, it gets deleted. So instead of a simple highlight the measure and go to the plugin and type in some simple things, it is now buried in the expression designer, a good 3+ clicks more than before? The old philosophy of MakeMusic would have been to keep the old way and allow the new way. Having multiple ways of doing things has always been the hallmark of why many of us have stuck with Finale rather than being pigeon-toed into Sibelius. So...what other deletions can we expect in Finale 2010? Maybe Speedy Entry will fall victim because it is hard for many people, or doesn't conform to some new functionality? On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Allen Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tempo markings have always been expressions. This functionality was separated from the expression tool, making it hard to find for many people. The create tempo marking PI also did not use the new expression functionality. Now, everything's in the expression tool, doesn't require switching tools, obeys staff lists, and can be assigned a metatool. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
But Eric's main point was -- why not rewrite the plug-in AND add the new capability to the expressions? As Eric says, it has long been a hallmark of Finale to be able to do things in multiple ways, so that each user could find the method which works best for him/her. I'm not sure I follow your logic, though -- when you say double-click in the score don't you need to be in a particular tool? In other words, if you have just used Speedy Entry, then double-click outside the edit box, expressions become the active tool? I don't have 2009, so I can't test Florence+Michael's method, but it seems to me as if there must be at least one more mouse-click to their method than is mentioned. David H. Bailey Florence + Michael wrote: I would call it buried in the expression designer. Double-click in the score to see the list of expressions. If the tempo marking you want is already there, just use it. If it isn't already there, one click takes you to the Expression Designer where you can create the tempo marking. If you use the old plug-in, you have the choice: either you go straight to the plug-in, at the risk of unnecessarily creating a tempo marking that already exists in the expressions library, or you check first with the expression tool to see if the marking you want is already there. If it is, all's well and good. If it isn't, you'll need to cancel the expression selection dialog, change tools, select the measure and make a choice in the plug-in menu to get to the point where you can create the expression: considerably more work than just one click to get to the Expression Designer. On 16 Nov 2008, at 10:23, Eric Dannewitz wrote: So rather than modify the plugin to use the new expressions, it gets deleted. So instead of a simple highlight the measure and go to the plugin and type in some simple things, it is now buried in the expression designer, a good 3+ clicks more than before? The old philosophy of MakeMusic would have been to keep the old way and allow the new way. Having multiple ways of doing things has always been the hallmark of why many of us have stuck with Finale rather than being pigeon-toed into Sibelius. So...what other deletions can we expect in Finale 2010? Maybe Speedy Entry will fall victim because it is hard for many people, or doesn't conform to some new functionality? On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Allen Fisher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tempo markings have always been expressions. This functionality was separated from the expression tool, making it hard to find for many people. The create tempo marking PI also did not use the new expression functionality. Now, everything's in the expression tool, doesn't require switching tools, obeys staff lists, and can be assigned a metatool. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
One of the great improvements they made is that they got rid of it. It is now an expression, and you have to create it in the expression editor. Fun huh? On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Rod McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have recently up-graded to 2009b and for the first time since I commenced using Finale in 2004, I am unable to find the 'Create Tempo Plug- In', which has always been under 'Plug-Ins---Expressions---Create Tempo. Now, no plug in. Am I missing something simple? Help, please.I am in the middle of something which requires repeated changes of tempo! Thanks. Rod. The problem with the Create Tempo Plug-in, I think, is that it used Maestro numbers instead of Times. I always found that to look most unprofessional. But, if really like it, and if you have an old copy of Finale around, you can reinstall the plug-in (just copy it into the correct folder), and it does work fine (at least it did when I tried it). If you need a copy of it, ask the list and someone can send it to you (I am Mac, and if you are also, email me off-list). You might consider not using it. I'm not sure it takes all that much longer to make a tempo change now. You double-click to add an expression, click on the Tempo Marks set, select one of the given expressions, click on duplicate, then edit. Then you can change the numbers and text. If you need to change the value (quarter, eighth, etc.), you need to know the EngraverTextT equivalents (q is quarter, e is eighth, x is sixteenth, h is half, w is whole, dot adds a dot, ). If you care about playback, click on the playback tab and change the tempo there also. I do agree that they could have simply updated the Create Tempo plug- in, fixing it by allowing mixed fonts. But I also think it would have saved, at most, a couple of clicks. David Froom ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
On 16 Nov 2008, at 15:36, David Froom wrote: You might consider not using it. I'm not sure it takes all that much longer to make a tempo change now. You double-click to add an expression, click on the Tempo Marks set, select one of the given expressions, click on duplicate, then edit. Then you can change the numbers and text. If you need to change the value (quarter, eighth, etc.), you need to know the EngraverTextT equivalents (q is quarter, e is eighth, x is sixteenth, h is half, w is whole, dot adds a dot, ). If you care about playback, click on the playback tab and change the tempo there also. Making a tempo expression is now much easier than that: - With the Tempo Marks category selected in the expression designer, click on create tempo mark - Choose the note value from the new Insert Note popup menu. - Go on typing the equal sign and the number: you'll find they are automatically set to the correct font. - If you click on the Playback tab, you'll see that playback has already been automatically defined. Note that it is now very easy to do such things as add parentheses around the definition of the metronome marking, or create expressions like quarter note = circa 100. All that wasn't possible directly with the plug-in: you'd have to first create the expression with the plug-in, then go to the expression tool and edit the expresion there. Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Generally, when I do work, I don't have tempos already defined, and when I have used the plugin before, it is creating a tempo for the first time. So, the whole first part of your argument is nulled. They should have just updated the plugin. I think it was a quick, easy way to get tempos into a project. Now it is buried for the sake of a new feature? On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 2:36 AM, Florence + Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would call it buried in the expression designer. Double-click in the score to see the list of expressions. If the tempo marking you want is already there, just use it. If it isn't already there, one click takes you to the Expression Designer where you can create the tempo marking. If you use the old plug-in, you have the choice: either you go straight to the plug-in, at the risk of unnecessarily creating a tempo marking that already exists in the expressions library, or you check first with the expression tool to see if the marking you want is already there. If it is, all's well and good. If it isn't, you'll need to cancel the expression selection dialog, change tools, select the measure and make a choice in the plug-in menu to get to the point where you can create the expression: considerably more work than just one click to get to the Expression Designer. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:36 AM, David Froom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with the Create Tempo Plug-in, I think, is that it used Maestro numbers instead of Times. I always found that to look most unprofessional. But, if really like it, and if you have an old copy of Finale around, you can reinstall the plug-in (just copy it into the correct folder), and it does work fine (at least it did when I tried it). If you need a copy of it, ask the list and someone can send it to you (I am Mac, and if you are also, email me off-list). It does use Maestro for numbers. That is not really a problem. I have a copy of it, thanks. You might consider not using it. I'm not sure it takes all that much longer to make a tempo change now. You double-click to add an expression, click on the Tempo Marks set, select one of the given expressions, click on duplicate, then edit. Then you can change the numbers and text. If you need to change the value (quarter, eighth, etc.), you need to know the EngraverTextT equivalents (q is quarter, e is eighth, x is sixteenth, h is half, w is whole, dot adds a dot, ). If you care about playback, click on the playback tab and change the tempo there also. Here is how you do it with the plugin: Highlight the measure-Plugin and all the stuff is there. Your way, you double click, then hunt for an expression (which means another click on the expression designer if there isn't one up infront of you). Another click to duplicate, then another to edit. And if you want tempo, you need to click another tab to get to that? This is assuming that there was an tempo expression already in your library. With the plugin it was all right there, in one simple dialogue box. I do agree that they could have simply updated the Create Tempo plug-in, fixing it by allowing mixed fonts. But I also think it would have saved, at most, a couple of clicks. Couple? Easilyplus all the options are right there. I don't see why, again, MakeMusic decided to just kill it. I think it was really faster to use than the process described above. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
The Quarter note = circa 100 can be done with the plugin, however, parentheses around the whole expression is a no go. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 8:34 AM, Florence + Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Note that it is now very easy to do such things as add parentheses around the definition of the metronome marking, or create expressions like quarter note = circa 100. All that wasn't possible directly with the plug-in: you'd have to first create the expression with the plug-in, then go to the expression tool and edit the expresion there. Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
I'll see that this gets updated. On Nov 16, 2008, at 3:12 AM, Florence + Michael wrote: Allen, this needs to be made clear in the documentation. If you look at the page on tempo marking, you'll see it still says: Note that you can easily generate full-featured metronome marking expressions with the Create Tempo Marking plug-in. See Create Tempo Marking Plug-in. This links to a page about the plug-in. Michael On 16 Nov 2008, at 06:09, Allen Fisher wrote: Tempo markings have always been expressions. This functionality was separated from the expression tool, making it hard to find for many people. The create tempo marking PI also did not use the new expression functionality. Now, everything's in the expression tool, doesn't require switching tools, obeys staff lists, and can be assigned a metatool. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Allen Fisher Founder and Principal Developer Fisher Art and Technology [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
On 16 Nov 2008, at 18:53, Eric Dannewitz wrote: The Quarter note = circa 100 can be done with the plugin, How? To be absolutely clear, I'm talking about the quarter note symbol. I can only make the plug-in create circa [quarter note] = 100, not [quarter note] = circa 100 Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Easy, highlight the measure, go to the plugin, check Display Tempo text, type in what you want, and uncheck Display Metronome Marking. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Florence + Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16 Nov 2008, at 18:53, Eric Dannewitz wrote: The Quarter note = circa 100 can be done with the plugin, How? To be absolutely clear, I'm talking about the quarter note symbol. I can only make the plug-in create circa [quarter note] = 100, not [quarter note] = circa 100 Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
No, that doesn't make an expression with the symbol for the quarter note in it, only normal text. On 16 Nov 2008, at 19:41, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Easy, highlight the measure, go to the plugin, check Display Tempo text, type in what you want, and uncheck Display Metronome Marking. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Florence + Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16 Nov 2008, at 18:53, Eric Dannewitz wrote: The Quarter note = circa 100 can be done with the plugin, How? To be absolutely clear, I'm talking about the quarter note symbol. I can only make the plug-in create circa [quarter note] = 100, not [quarter note] = circa 100 Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Ok, no, it doesn't. But then again, I've never noted any tempo marking like that. Regardless, I still think the Plugin should have been modified to work with the new expressions rather than just axed. It is more steps to create markings. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Florence + Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, that doesn't make an expression with the symbol for the quarter note in it, only normal text. On 16 Nov 2008, at 19:41, Eric Dannewitz wrote: Easy, highlight the measure, go to the plugin, check Display Tempo text, type in what you want, and uncheck Display Metronome Marking. On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:37 AM, Florence + Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 16 Nov 2008, at 18:53, Eric Dannewitz wrote: The Quarter note = circa 100 can be done with the plugin, How? To be absolutely clear, I'm talking about the quarter note symbol. I can only make the plug-in create circa [quarter note] = 100, not [quarter note] = circa 100 Michael ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
One of the great improvements they made is that they got rid of it. It is now an expression, and you have to create it in the expression editor. Fun huh? On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 7:52 AM, Rod McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have recently up-graded to 2009b and for the first time since I commenced using Finale in 2004, I am unable to find the 'Create Tempo Plug-In', which has always been under 'Plug-Ins---Expressions---Create Tempo. Now, no plug in. Am I missing something simple? Help, please.I am in the middle of something which requires repeated changes of tempo! Thanks. Rod. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Before you know it they do away with everything except the simple rest palette... I can't wait... Eric Dannewitz wrote: One of the great improvements they made is that they got rid of it. It is now an expression, and you have to create it in the expression editor. Fun huh? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Just create an expression in the tempo marks category. There's now a menu (Insert Note) where you can choose the note value, and if you continue typing something like = 120, you'll see that Finale automatically changes to the font defined for tempo marking numbers. Playback is automatically set. Honestly, it's just as good as the plug-in. There are advantages over the old version, as well: - The simple fact of creating the expression in the tempo marks category means that it gets assigned to the correct score list. - If you have a tempo marking that you will need to use often, you can create a metatool for it and pop it into the score with one click, something that didn't work too well in older versions (a measure-attached expression entered with a metatool automatically got entered on all staves). - The create tempo marking plug-in will only use Maestro as font for the note and number. In 2009 you can choose any font for the note value, and another for the number if you wish. - You can now very quickly create an expression for a tempo relation such as eighth note = quarter note. Michael On 15 Nov 2008, at 16:52, Rod McDonald wrote: Have recently up-graded to 2009b and for the first time since I commenced using Finale in 2004, I am unable to find the 'Create Tempo Plug- In', which has always been under 'Plug-Ins---Expressions---Create Tempo. Now, no plug in. Am I missing something simple? Help, please.I am in the middle of something which requires repeated changes of tempo! Thanks. Rod. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Many thanks to those who helped me this morning. Took me a while to find the Insert Note command...at my age, I seem to have difficulty seeing what is directly in front of me! Best Wishes. Rod. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Florence + Michael Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2008 4:40 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In' Just create an expression in the tempo marks category. There's now a menu (Insert Note) where you can choose the note value, and if you continue typing something like = 120, you'll see that Finale automatically changes to the font defined for tempo marking numbers. Playback is automatically set. Honestly, it's just as good as the plug-in. There are advantages over the old version, as well: - The simple fact of creating the expression in the tempo marks category means that it gets assigned to the correct score list. - If you have a tempo marking that you will need to use often, you can create a metatool for it and pop it into the score with one click, something that didn't work too well in older versions (a measure-attached expression entered with a metatool automatically got entered on all staves). - The create tempo marking plug-in will only use Maestro as font for the note and number. In 2009 you can choose any font for the note value, and another for the number if you wish. - You can now very quickly create an expression for a tempo relation such as eighth note = quarter note. Michael On 15 Nov 2008, at 16:52, Rod McDonald wrote: Have recently up-graded to 2009b and for the first time since I commenced using Finale in 2004, I am unable to find the 'Create Tempo Plug- In', which has always been under 'Plug-Ins---Expressions---Create Tempo. Now, no plug in. Am I missing something simple? Help, please.I am in the middle of something which requires repeated changes of tempo! Thanks. Rod. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
timothy key price [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Nov 15, 2008, at 6:02 PM, Rod McDonald wrote: Many thanks to those who helped me this morning. Took me a while to find the Insert Note command...at my age, I seem to have difficulty seeing what is directly in front of me! Best Wishes. Rod. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Florence + Michael Sent: Sunday, 16 November 2008 4:40 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In' Just create an expression in the tempo marks category. There's now a menu (Insert Note) where you can choose the note value, and if you continue typing something like = 120, you'll see that Finale automatically changes to the font defined for tempo marking numbers. Playback is automatically set. Honestly, it's just as good as the plug-in. There are advantages over the old version, as well: - The simple fact of creating the expression in the tempo marks category means that it gets assigned to the correct score list. - If you have a tempo marking that you will need to use often, you can create a metatool for it and pop it into the score with one click, something that didn't work too well in older versions (a measure-attached expression entered with a metatool automatically got entered on all staves). - The create tempo marking plug-in will only use Maestro as font for the note and number. In 2009 you can choose any font for the note value, and another for the number if you wish. - You can now very quickly create an expression for a tempo relation such as eighth note = quarter note. Michael On 15 Nov 2008, at 16:52, Rod McDonald wrote: Have recently up-graded to 2009b and for the first time since I commenced using Finale in 2004, I am unable to find the 'Create Tempo Plug- In', which has always been under 'Plug-Ins---Expressions---Create Tempo. Now, no plug in. Am I missing something simple? Help, please.I am in the middle of something which requires repeated changes of tempo! Thanks. Rod. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] missing 'Create Tempo Plug-In'
Tempo markings have always been expressions. This functionality was separated from the expression tool, making it hard to find for many people. The create tempo marking PI also did not use the new expression functionality. Now, everything's in the expression tool, doesn't require switching tools, obeys staff lists, and can be assigned a metatool. On Nov 15, 2008, at 10:18 AM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: One of the great improvements they made is that they got rid of it. It is now an expression, and you have to create it in the expression editor. Fun huh? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
