Re: [Flightgear-devel] heads up -- effects for models

[Tim Moore]

On 11/17/2009 01:53 AM, Victhor Foster wrote:
> I am experiencing this bug: Some 3D objects/models are untextured, while
> some others are. There are two screenshots showing this bug on the links
> below.
> http://img163.imageshack.us/i/fgfsscreen021.png/
> http://img163.imageshack.us/i/fgfsscreen020.png/
> 
Are there any objects that are textured in that screenshot? It looks to me
like you haven't updated the data directory from CVS. Otherwise, what hardware
and OS are you running?

Tim
> 
> 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] BUG - Evening, Rain, Propeller

[Ron Jensen]

On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 20:37 +0100, Erik Hofman wrote:
> James Turner wrote:
> > In general, I would far prefer the C172P to be as high quality (and 
> > functional as possible),
> 
> I would even say that the default c172p would be the sample 
> implementation of an aircraft in FlightGear meaning that it should 
> reflect the latest code as closely as possible.
> 
> Erik

It probably should be, but it could use some help at the moment.

Step one should probably be cleaning all the stray shift-tabs in the xml
files and standardizing the indentation...

I notice that c172p-set.xml has two separate sets of "model" tags...

The -set files have created an ugly include chain, I don't believe one
set file should include another, if that is needed there should be a
"base" xml file both include, ala helijah's style.

possibly the c172/ directory should be consolidated into c172p...

Ron



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] lib

[Johnathan Van Why]

> Hi,
>
> First of all I'd like to emphasize that I'm absolutely new to
> flightgear. The reason I'm interested in it is that I plan to do a
> development and need some libs to help me with that.
>
> What I want to do is more about "AI". Simulate flight of several
> airplanes. For this I'd like to use an existing piece of code that has
> good enough physics. So in my case it has nothing to do with
> visualization (at least not on the short term), but only as a 'physics
> library'.
>
> Before diving deep into the code, I wanted to ask for advice regarding
> flightgear...
>
> - According to the above, does flightgear have what I'm looking for?
> - If yes, is the physics part separated and 'librarized' enough to be
> able to use it from an external software?
> - Has anyone done something similar before?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help/pointer/etc.
> Bgs

FlightGear can use many different FDM (Flight Dynamics Models.) One of its
primary two is JSBSim (another is YASim,) which can be run standalone or
within another program.

If you want to simulate the flight of aircraft, possibly with systems such
as autopilots, then JSBSim can do the task. I would suggest looking at it.

There is an excellent JSBSim guide at
http://jsbsim.sourceforge.net/JSBSimReferenceManual.pdf that is a great help
when developing aircraft for JSBSim. JSBSim's Wikipedia article is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSBSim, and I would suggest starting there.

I hope this helps.
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[Flightgear-devel] multiple instances of given ai aircraft

[Alex Romosan]

while flying out of jfk today i noticed once again multiple instances of
a given ai aircraft. looking at the properties tree i noticed that there
were multiple aircraft with the same call sign. after a bit of detective
work i noticed that the number of aircrafts corresponds to the number of
entries for that given aircraft in AI/Traffic. For example Delta0080 is
listed 7 times departing from jfk, once for each day of the week, and
that's how many aircraft were drawn on the screen.

after trying to understand the scheduler code i think i finally came up
with a patch:

--- src/Traffic/Schedule.cxx3 Sep 2009 20:18:34 -   1.40
+++ src/Traffic/Schedule.cxx17 Nov 2009 02:15:32 -
@@ -372,7 +372,7 @@
  SG_LOG (SG_GENERAL, SG_DEBUG, "Traffic manager: " << registration << 
" is scheduled for a flight from " 
 << dep->getId() << " to " << arr->getId() << ". Current distance 
to user: " 
  << distanceToUser);
- if (distanceToUser < TRAFFICTOAIDISTTOSTART)
+ if (distanceToUser < TRAFFICTOAIDISTTOSTART && 
((*i)->getDepartureTime()-now<1800))
{
  string flightPlanName = dep->getId() + string("-") + arr->getId() 
+ 
string(".xml");

which basically creates the AI model only if the departure time is 30
mins or less from now. i don't know if this is the correct solution, but
i believe the reason we see multiple instances of a given AI aircraft is
because we draw a new plane for each entry in the schedule. hope this
helps.

--alex--

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[Flightgear-devel] terragear

[Pete Morgan]

Dont know if this is the right newsgroup, but am trying to compile 
terragear.

Pulled from here
http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/?p=terragear-cs;a=summary

Also simgear from here
http://mapserver.flightgear.org/git/?p=simgear-cs;a=summary

It configures ok but a compile error as below.

regards
Pete

Making all in Geometry
make[3]: Entering directory 
`/home/flight-sim/terra/terragear-cs/src/Lib/Geometry'
if g++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../../src/Include -I../../../src 
-I../../../src/Lib -I../../../src/BuildTiles -g -O2 -MT poly_support.o 
-MD -MP -MF ".deps/poly_support.Tpo" -c -o poly_support.o 
poly_support.cxx; \
then mv -f ".deps/poly_support.Tpo" ".deps/poly_support.Po"; else rm -f 
".deps/poly_support.Tpo"; exit 1; fi
poly_support.cxx: In function ‘void write_tree_element(TGContourNode*, 
TGPolygon&, int)’:
poly_support.cxx:406: warning: format ‘%ld’ expects type ‘long int’, but 
argument 3 has type ‘int’
poly_support.cxx:414: warning: format ‘%ld’ expects type ‘long int’, but 
argument 3 has type ‘int’
poly_support.cxx: In function ‘void calc_point_inside(TGContourNode*, 
TGPolygon&)’:
poly_support.cxx:474: error: ‘Point3DOrdering’ was not declared in this 
scope
make[3]: *** [poly_support.o] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory 
`/home/flight-sim/terra/terragear-cs/src/Lib/Geometry'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory `/home/flight-sim/terra/terragear-cs/src/Lib'
make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/flight-sim/terra/terragear-cs/src'
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] heads up -- effects for models

[Victhor Foster]

I am experiencing this bug: Some 3D objects/models are untextured, while some 
others are. There are two screenshots showing this bug on the links below.
http://img163.imageshack.us/i/fgfsscreen021.png/
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] SoundSystem continued

[Vivian Meazza]

Dave wrote

> Vivian Meazza wrote:
> > MSVC9 is available for free download. I don't know if using that would
> help.
> > FG builds and runs with that here, although I do get a segfault on
> reset,
> > which I have only just noticed.
> >
> > (MSVC10 Beta 2 is also available, but I haven't tried that)
> >
> >
> 
> Hi Vivian,
> 
> It's good to know that it is possible to get it working :-)
> 
> How do you install and link openAL?  I've been using the SDK installer,
> but the .lib that provides is dated 2005 and never seems to get updated,
> only the .dll seems to get updated.  Would it be possible for you to
> upload your solution somewhere so I can sanity check which libraries I'm
> linking against?
> 

Try this lot - ftp://ftp.abbeytheatre2.org.uk/fgfs/MSVC9/ But be warned -
there are some very local paths in there. All I can say is - works for me.
It has evolved over several years, and I wouldn't like to have to recreate
from scratch now :-)

Vivian




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] SoundSystem continued

[Dave]

Vivian Meazza wrote:
> MSVC9 is available for free download. I don't know if using that would help.
> FG builds and runs with that here, although I do get a segfault on reset,
> which I have only just noticed.
>
> (MSVC10 Beta 2 is also available, but I haven't tried that)
>
>   

Hi Vivian,

It's good to know that it is possible to get it working :-)

How do you install and link openAL?  I've been using the SDK installer, 
but the .lib that provides is dated 2005 and never seems to get updated, 
only the .dll seems to get updated.  Would it be possible for you to 
upload your solution somewhere so I can sanity check which libraries I'm 
linking against?

Cheers - Dave

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] SoundSystem continued

[Dave]

Erik Hofman wrote:
> daveluff wrote:
>   
>> Erik Hofman wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if anybody has any problems/bugs/oddities that needs to 
>>> be addressed in the latest SoundSystem code.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>   
>> Hi Erik,
>>
>> I'm still unable to run without a segfault since the new sound system 
>> was committed.  Here is my call stack:
>> 
>
> Two things;
> 1. it /is/ the latest version in CVS right?
> 2. Can you specify which options you have turned on (esp. the ones that 
> others might not use regularly)
>   

Hi Erik,

It was the latest CVS SimGear, FlightGear and data when I wrote the 
message a couple of days ago.  The only command line option was my 
fg-data path.  The only thing changed in preferences was that the 
parking brake is on.  Basically as near to a vanilla startup as possible.

Now I know that Vivian is successfully compiling and running with the 
new sound and MSVC it sounds like it's my problem.  I'll try and track 
it down at this end.

Cheers - Dave

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[Flightgear-devel] lib

[Bgs]

 Hi,

First of all I'd like to emphasize that I'm absolutely new to 
flightgear. The reason I'm interested in it is that I plan to do a 
development and need some libs to help me with that.

What I want to do is more about "AI". Simulate flight of several 
airplanes. For this I'd like to use an existing piece of code that has 
good enough physics. So in my case it has nothing to do with 
visualization (at least not on the short term), but only as a 'physics 
library'.

Before diving deep into the code, I wanted to ask for advice regarding 
flightgear...

- According to the above, does flightgear have what I'm looking for?
- If yes, is the physics part separated and 'librarized' enough to be 
able to use it from an external software?
- Has anyone done something similar before?

Thanks in advance for any help/pointer/etc.
Bgs


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Rob Shearman, Jr.]

Martin Spott:
"  plus, maybe, one button to ignore the entire chat (if that one
doesn't already exist),"

Off the top of my head, I think there's a checkbox with that effect in the 
"rendering options" panel?  -R. (MD-Terp)

 Robert M. Shearman, Jr.
Transit Operations Supervisor,
University of Maryland Department of Transportation
also known as rm...@umd.edu


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Rob Shearman, Jr.]

Arnt Karlsen: "..in the GNU spirit; Why not simply _use_ IRC for FG MP???  
It'll be fast paced etc alright, but it allows e.g. #FG-ATC, #FG-newbies, 
#FG-dogfight etc, e.g. on the same ports we use now."

The additional benefit here would be that anyone with access to an MPMap and an 
IRC client (even a web-based one like mibbit.com) could log on from any PC, 
even a non-FG-capable one, and act as an ad-hoc text-only air traffic 
controller.  (And I use the word "benefit" somewhat loosely, as it opens up the 
possibility for more "abuse of power" of that role by the uninformed and 
unprofessional, as we occasionally encounter now.)

The question that immediately brings to mind is: how would range-testing be 
incorprorated into that?  Or would it be abandoned?  Or would the interface 
need to be driven similarly to FGCom, where "virtual" channels get opened and 
joined in some dynamic fashion?

Cheers,
-R. ("MD-Terp")

 Robert M. Shearman, Jr.
Transit Operations Supervisor,
University of Maryland Department of Transportation
also known as rm...@umd.edu


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Custom scenery data startup location problem.

[Alex Romosan]

Anders Gidenstam  writes:

> I wonder if anyone alse has noticd that the startup location on
> runways with a displaced threshold differs depending on whether the
> custom scenery .threshold.xml file or apt.dat is used?

i've solved this problem by applying the following patch to flightgear:

diff -u -r1.43 runways.cxx
--- ./Airports/runways.cxx  16 Sep 2009 00:17:12 -  1.43
+++ ./Airports/runways.cxx  16 Nov 2009 21:33:10 -
@@ -153,7 +153,7 @@
   
   // compute the new runway center, based on the threshold lat/lon, length,
   // and any displaced threshold.
-  double offsetFt = (0.5 * _length) - _displ_thresh;
+  double offsetFt = (0.5 * _length) + _displ_thresh;
   SGGeod newCenter;
   double dummy;
   SGGeodesy::direct(newThreshold, _heading, offsetFt * SG_FEET_TO_METER, 
newCenter, dummy);

and now the plane is positioned at the beginning of the runway proper.
if --prop:/sim/paths/use-custom-scenery-data is set to false than the
aircraft is positioned at the beginning of the threshold. i think this
is the right fix but somebody more knowledgable should take a look and
maybe commit it to cvs. thanks.

--alex--

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|  automatism and other passive states) to systematize confusion  |
|  and thus to help to discredit completely the world of reality. |

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Martin Spott]

Jacob Burbach wrote:

> [...] On the pilots list next to each client should be
> two buttons, one for ignoring chat, and one for ignoring the model as
> well.

  plus, maybe, one button to ignore the entire chat (if that one
doesn't already exist),

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] heads up -- effects for models

[Heiko Schulz]

Hello Tim,

> Hi Tim,
> 
> Tim Moore wrote:
> 
> > [...] I want to shake out what the changes may have
> broken first. Animations,
> > particularly material animations, may very likely be
> messed up; please report
> > any breakage.
> 

There are some more, maybe older:

-particles emmissive is broken ( no landinglights on the Hansajet)

-conditions bindings on emissive is broken (all scenery models with 
nightlighting are emissive during day)

Kind regards
Heiko




  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] BUG - Evening, Rain, Propeller

[dave perry]

Heiko Schulz wrote:
> Hello Dave,
>
> I did the the 3d-model incl. the 3d-panel, but there was still a lot of 
> issues.
> All other things (fdm, wrapping xml's, 2d-panels etc) I left untouched.
>
>  
>   
>> Hi Heiko (and anyone who is maintaining the c172P),
>>
>> Several questions:
>>
>> First, who is "the Model-Author" for the c172p?  A
>> search of the c172 
>> folder only yields David Megginson who has not been active
>> with fgfs for 
>> some time.  The current 3d model was don by someone
>> else; perhaps you.
>>
>> Second, I have edited my local copy for cvs so that the
>> nav-light switch 
>> also controls instrument/pannel lights so the c172p can be
>> flown at 
>> night.  I also point the vors to the recent changed
>> Instruments-3d/vor 
>> folder which you can try out using either the cvs pa24 or
>> cvs pa28.  
>> with these changes to Instruments-3d/vor, the GS flag now
>> works and the 
>> needles smoothly transition to 0.0 when out-of-range or
>> when tuned to a 
>> non-gs vor/loc.  Does anyone object to committing
>> these changes?
>> 
>
> That sounds great, and I'm agree with this changes. 
>
> Kind Regards
> Heiko
>
>   
Thanks Heiko,

I will submit a patch with the above update.

Dave P.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] heads up -- effects for models

[Martin Spott]

Hi Tim,

Tim Moore wrote:

> [...] I want to shake out what the changes may have broken first. Animations,
> particularly material animations, may very likely be messed up; please report
> any breakage.

The prop disc of the Seneca, when lit almost from the same direction as
viewed at (sitting in the cockpit, the sun in your back) now looks
pretty much like a hard disc.
I'm uncertain if this is a flaw with your recent changes or in the
aircraft configuration, yet I think this looks a bit strange and did
not to so before your changes,

Martin.
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[Flightgear-devel] Automatically hide/show the menubar

[Torsten Dreyer]

Hi, 
I just committed a featurette for the menubar which is disabled by default but 
can be enabled by setting /sim/menubar/autovisibility/enabled to true.

If enabled, the menubar is invisible and pops up when the mouse in mode 0 hits 
the upper edge of the fgfs window. It stays visible until the mouse clicks 
somewhere outside the pui elements. Nothing new for x-plane users...

Previous F-10 behaviour is untouched.

Hope you like it. If so, it might be enabled by default in preferences.xml 
some day.

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] BUG - Evening, Rain, Propeller

[Heiko Schulz]

Hello Dave,

I did the the 3d-model incl. the 3d-panel, but there was still a lot of issues.
All other things (fdm, wrapping xml's, 2d-panels etc) I left untouched.

 
> Hi Heiko (and anyone who is maintaining the c172P),
> 
> Several questions:
> 
> First, who is "the Model-Author" for the c172p?  A
> search of the c172 
> folder only yields David Megginson who has not been active
> with fgfs for 
> some time.  The current 3d model was don by someone
> else; perhaps you.
> 
> Second, I have edited my local copy for cvs so that the
> nav-light switch 
> also controls instrument/pannel lights so the c172p can be
> flown at 
> night.  I also point the vors to the recent changed
> Instruments-3d/vor 
> folder which you can try out using either the cvs pa24 or
> cvs pa28.  
> with these changes to Instruments-3d/vor, the GS flag now
> works and the 
> needles smoothly transition to 0.0 when out-of-range or
> when tuned to a 
> non-gs vor/loc.  Does anyone object to committing
> these changes?

That sounds great, and I'm agree with this changes. 

Kind Regards
Heiko


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Arnt Karlsen]

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 09:25:57 -, Vivian wrote in message 
<6e5e9a144a174d9c84057da9eff57...@main>:

> Tom,
> 
>  
> 
> I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with your
> suggestion, just that it does not meet the original remit, which was
> to be able to ignore players who were not following the "rules",
> either intentionally or through ignorance.  
> 
>  
> 
> We already almost have what you propose with ports 5000/5002. Which
> reminds me: IIRC 5001 is reserved for telnet. We rarely use 5002 for
> development nowadays, so I suppose there is nothing stopping a bunch
> of like-minded guys using that. However, I just have a final
> reservation - MP was meant to be the global picture of the airspace -
> not just a part. 
> 
>  
> 
> That said perhaps we do need a ban/kick/ignore like IRC for MP. We
> have stepped around this issue in the past. 

..in the GNU spirit; Why not simply _use_ IRC for FG MP???
It'll be fast paced etc alright, but it allows e.g. #FG-ATC,
#FG-newbies, #FG-dogfight etc, e.g. on the same ports we 
use now.

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  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clouds

[syd adams]

I meant the main menu  the current layout is ...

File View Location Autopilot Environment ... etc

I was suggesting ...

File View Rendering Location Autopilot Environment ... etc

Just another idea...

Cheers

On 11/16/09, Stuart Buchanan  wrote:
> Jacob Burbach wrote:
>
>> To: FlightGear developers discussions
>> 
>> Sent: Mon, 16 November, 2009 11:44:38
>> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clouds
>>
>> > My screenshot didn't show the proposed menu structure, so here it is:
>> >
>> > View
>> > - Display Options
>> > - Rendering Options
>> > - Cockpit View Options
>> > - Adjust View Distance
>> > - Adjust HUD Properties
>> > - Instant Replay
>> > - Adjust LOD Ranges*
>>
>> While we're at it, could "Adjust View Distance" be changed to "Adjust
>> View Position", since that's what it actually does?
>>
>> cheers
>> --Jacob
>
> Good spot - I'll include that in the updates.
>
> -Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPS

[syd adams]

Ok I'll look into it further ... need to learn how to use it before i
update the KLN90B...
Altitude is set from a separate instrument , not linked to the GPS in any way.
As for the EFIS-84 settings , I haven't come across any good refences
for the controller, so it can only be set from the dialog for now ...
but that's still a work in progress as always...
Cheers


On 11/16/09, James Turner  wrote:
>
> On 16 Nov 2009, at 11:35, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
>
>> One minor bug was that selecting a NAV ID in the GPS reset the set
>> altitude to the NAV
>> ID height, but didn't update that altitude select on the panel. I
>> think this might be seen as
>> a bug in the GPS code rather than the panel, as that's the one
>> altitude you don't want ;)
>> Would it be better to have the GPS simply not update the altitude
>> set for NAV IDs (rather than
>> airports).
>
> Absolutely. This bug (and many others related to VNAV operations) will
> be looked at after I commit the airways/procedure support (i.e,
> 'soon'), because there's some policy decisions that need to be made to
> ensure sensible interaction with autopilots. In particular, I'm not
> sure the GPS should ever be setting the autopilot target altitude,
> since as you noted it's often not what is desired, depending on the
> loaded flightplan.
>
>> Also, I couldn't find a way to set the radial or heading bug within
>> the cockpit, so had to resort
>> to then Autopilot dialog. Was I missing something, or has that still
>> to be implemented?
>
> I think the knob is on the centre pedestal, but that makes it hard to
> use (with the mouse) while looking at the cockpit displays, so I
> usually use the Autopilot dialog myself.
>
> James
>
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] BUG - Evening, Rain, Propeller

[Erik Hofman]

James Turner wrote:
> In general, I would far prefer the C172P to be as high quality (and 
> functional as possible),

I would even say that the default c172p would be the sample 
implementation of an aircraft in FlightGear meaning that it should 
reflect the latest code as closely as possible.

Erik


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] BUG - Evening, Rain, Propeller

[James Turner]

On 16 Nov 2009, at 17:37, dave perry wrote:

> Second, I have edited my local copy for cvs so that the nav-light switch 
> also controls instrument/pannel lights so the c172p can be flown at 
> night.  I also point the vors to the recent changed Instruments-3d/vor 
> folder which you can try out using either the cvs pa24 or cvs pa28.  
> with these changes to Instruments-3d/vor, the GS flag now works and the 
> needles smoothly transition to 0.0 when out-of-range or when tuned to a 
> non-gs vor/loc.  Does anyone object to committing these changes?

In general, I would far prefer the C172P to be as high quality (and functional 
as possible), rather than worrying about 'ownership' of this particular 
aircraft. I realise for most aircraft ownership is very important to the 
original developers, but since the C172 is the default, I think it should be 
understood as a group effort. Of course if someone volunteers to act as 
maintainer, that'd be great, and more power to them!

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] BUG - Evening, Rain, Propeller

[Martin Spott]

dave perry wrote:

> First, who is "the Model-Author" for the c172p?

Heiko Schulz is the author of the current 3D model, yet I'm pretty
convinced that he left the FDM unchanged,

Martin.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] BUG - Evening, Rain, Propeller

[dave perry]

Heiko Schulz wrote:
> The Model-Author of the c172p has this on his list, but did not find any time 
> to change this...
>
>   
Hi Heiko (and anyone who is maintaining the c172P),

Several questions:

First, who is "the Model-Author" for the c172p?  A search of the c172 
folder only yields David Megginson who has not been active with fgfs for 
some time.  The current 3d model was don by someone else; perhaps you.

Second, I have edited my local copy for cvs so that the nav-light switch 
also controls instrument/pannel lights so the c172p can be flown at 
night.  I also point the vors to the recent changed Instruments-3d/vor 
folder which you can try out using either the cvs pa24 or cvs pa28.  
with these changes to Instruments-3d/vor, the GS flag now works and the 
needles smoothly transition to 0.0 when out-of-range or when tuned to a 
non-gs vor/loc.  Does anyone object to committing these changes?

Regards,
Dave P.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FSWeekend impressions

[Wolfram Kuss]

Unfortunately I dont have time to write a long impression or "clean up" my
photos a lot, so here is simply a huge 150MB pack of fotos with a small
text file:
http://www.3d-raumplan.com/wk_privat/Fotos_FSWeekend.rar

It was my first FS Weekend and I was surprised at how large both the museum
and the conference are. 

Of course everything was quite MS specific and in the sunday "Alternatives
to MS" discussion the basic consensus was that for now Microsoft's
dissapearance from the flightsim market is no big issue issue as users and
AddOn developers have often not yet made the switch to FSX. But that in
some time (the timespan was the only real disagreement, some being as low
as 2 years, others as high as 5) there would be a "dangerous" "hole" in the
market unless someone comes along and fills the hole. FGFS was only
mentioned twice in passing. "Dangerous" meaning a shrinking user community
and less profits (about half of the panel was people earning their living
with entertainment flightsims).

BTW there was a similar discussion with similar results in Paderborn.

It was nice meeting you people!

Bye bye
Wolfram


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cliffs

[Vadym Kukhtin]

2009/11/16 cullam Bruce-Lockhart :
> I'm planning on developing procedures that automatically assign cliff 
> textures to any scenery beyond a certain slope. From reading through the 
> flightgear devel archives, this idea has come up before. Does anybody know if 
> any work was actually done with it? And if so, anyone know where I can find 
> it, or who I can talk to about it? I just want to make sure I'm not doing 
> work that's redundant.

I think about it too; but as I understand, simply change texture's
name in btg don't help, since that texture will be stretched like any
other (i.e. looks right only for top view). It is necessary to play
with uv-coordinates or sort of.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Cliffs

[Jon Stockill]

cullam Bruce-Lockhart wrote:
> Terribly sorry to send this out again, but I never got any response to my 
> previous query. 
> 
> I'm planning on developing procedures that automatically assign cliff 
> textures to any scenery beyond a certain slope. From reading through the 
> flightgear devel archives, this idea has come up before. Does anybody know if 
> any work was actually done with it? And if so, anyone know where I can find 
> it, or who I can talk to about it? I just want to make sure I'm not doing 
> work that's redundant. 

I suspect that's something already handled by the terrain shaders. ISTR 
they give a more rocky look to steeper surfaces.

Jon

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[Flightgear-devel] Cliffs

[cullam Bruce-Lockhart]

Terribly sorry to send this out again, but I never got any response to my 
previous query. 

I'm planning on developing procedures that automatically assign cliff textures 
to any scenery beyond a certain slope. From reading through the flightgear 
devel archives, this idea has come up before. Does anybody know if any work was 
actually done with it? And if so, anyone know where I can find it, or who I can 
talk to about it? I just want to make sure I'm not doing work that's redundant. 
-cullam


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPS

[James Turner]

On 16 Nov 2009, at 11:35, Stuart Buchanan wrote:

> One minor bug was that selecting a NAV ID in the GPS reset the set  
> altitude to the NAV
> ID height, but didn't update that altitude select on the panel. I  
> think this might be seen as
> a bug in the GPS code rather than the panel, as that's the one  
> altitude you don't want ;)
> Would it be better to have the GPS simply not update the altitude  
> set for NAV IDs (rather than
> airports).

Absolutely. This bug (and many others related to VNAV operations) will  
be looked at after I commit the airways/procedure support (i.e,  
'soon'), because there's some policy decisions that need to be made to  
ensure sensible interaction with autopilots. In particular, I'm not  
sure the GPS should ever be setting the autopilot target altitude,  
since as you noted it's often not what is desired, depending on the  
loaded flightplan.

> Also, I couldn't find a way to set the radial or heading bug within  
> the cockpit, so had to resort
> to then Autopilot dialog. Was I missing something, or has that still  
> to be implemented?

I think the knob is on the centre pedestal, but that makes it hard to  
use (with the mouse) while looking at the cockpit displays, so I  
usually use the Autopilot dialog myself.

James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Csaba Halász]

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Vivian Meazza
 wrote:
> Stuart Buchanan wrote
>
>>
>> On a related note, I believe Jester finished the work that I had
>> originally intended
>> in the MP chat to provide per-frequency chat, rather than a single global
>> frequency.
>
> My understanding is that Csabá didn't get that to work. I wanted to use it
> for Carrier Controlled Approaches, but had to (mis)use the Approach Channel
> instead.

I wouldn't say "finished" but I suppose it has worked a year ago when
I posted the patch:
http://www.mail-archive.com/flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg18244.html
There were some further ideas but no followups.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Vivian Meazza]

Stuart Buchanan wrote

> -Original Message-
> From: [mailto:stuart_d_bucha...@yahoo.co.uk]
> Sent: 16 November 2009 12:44
> To: FlightGear developers discussions
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots
> 
> Pete Morgan wrote:
> 
> > Seperate ports are gonna be a problem with firewalls.
> >
> > Is there a way to create a group using the callsign? eg
> my_group:callsign ?
> >
> > just a thought.
> >
> > Pete
> 
> My personal preference is to simply to expand the Ignore option to hide
> the AI
> model on the client-side. Should be pretty straightforward to do and
> doesn't
> require any messing around with the MP connection.
> 
> Adding an additional check-box to the pilot dialog to hide the model
> separately
> from the chat feels a bit overly complicated. If I want to ignore someone
> on chat,
> chances are I don't particularly want to see them either, so a single
> checkbox
> on the pilot dialog could serve both purposes.
> 
> On a related note, I believe Jester finished the work that I had
> originally intended
> in the MP chat to provide per-frequency chat, rather than a single global
> frequency.
> Now that we have FGCom, I suspect there's a lot less need for this than
> there was,
> but it would be a nice addition, and a simple way to ignore all the MP
> chat traffic at
> KSFO ;)
> 
> If we feel that groups are a good idea, an enhancement to Pete's
> suggestion above
> would be easy to implement and provide a very flexible function if we have
> client-side
> ignore:
> 
> 1) Each client transmits a /sim/user/group property over MP
> 
> 2) A dialog backed by some Nasal allows selection of your group
> (freeform/dropdown)
> and selection/deselection of specific groups to display or ignore.
> 
> 3) As new MP clients join, the Nasal code ignores them automatically based
> on their
> group and your rules.
> 
> This would allow very flexible filtering for a number of useful scenarios:
> 1) People wanting to fly in a specific group without any other MP people
> can simply create
> an ad-hoc group and select to display only that group.
> 2) Some pre-defined groups (FGCom, ATC, Beginners, Default)  would allow
> standard
> groups to be displayed/ignored easily
> 

My understanding is that Csabá didn't get that to work. I wanted to use it
for Carrier Controlled Approaches, but had to (mis)use the Approach Channel
instead.

Vivian



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Anders Gidenstam]

On Mon, 16 Nov 2009, Stuart Buchanan wrote:

> Pete Morgan wrote:
>
> My personal preference is to simply to expand the Ignore option to hide the AI
> model on the client-side. Should be pretty straightforward to do and doesn't
> require any messing around with the MP connection.
>
> Adding an additional check-box to the pilot dialog to hide the model 
> separately
> from the chat feels a bit overly complicated. If I want to ignore someone on 
> chat,
> chances are I don't particularly want to see them either, so a single checkbox
> on the pilot dialog could serve both purposes.

Hi all,

I agree. 
In addition to that mp_broadcast.nas, which is the communication layer of 
WildFire (among other things), can easily be extended to use the same 
ignore property to ignore selected users.

> If we feel that groups are a good idea, an enhancement to Pete's suggestion 
> above
> would be easy to implement and provide a very flexible function if we have 
> client-side
> ignore:
>
> 1) Each client transmits a /sim/user/group property over MP

With the current state of our MP system I would strongly suggest that we 
let the group property be an integer if we decide to add it. Strings are 
still expensive (in terms of size) to send. The number could e.g. be a 
hash of the group name. Besides, 2^32 groups ought to be enough for anyone ;)

Cheers,

Anders
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clouds

[Stuart Buchanan]

Jacob Burbach wrote:

> To: FlightGear developers discussions 
> Sent: Mon, 16 November, 2009 11:44:38
> Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clouds
> 
> > My screenshot didn't show the proposed menu structure, so here it is:
> >
> > View
> > - Display Options
> > - Rendering Options
> > - Cockpit View Options
> > - Adjust View Distance
> > - Adjust HUD Properties
> > - Instant Replay
> > - Adjust LOD Ranges*
> 
> While we're at it, could "Adjust View Distance" be changed to "Adjust
> View Position", since that's what it actually does?
> 
> cheers
> --Jacob

Good spot - I'll include that in the updates.

-Stuart



  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Stuart Buchanan]

Pete Morgan wrote:

> Seperate ports are gonna be a problem with firewalls.
> 
> Is there a way to create a group using the callsign? eg my_group:callsign ?
> 
> just a thought.
> 
> Pete

My personal preference is to simply to expand the Ignore option to hide the AI 
model on the client-side. Should be pretty straightforward to do and doesn't
require any messing around with the MP connection. 

Adding an additional check-box to the pilot dialog to hide the model separately
from the chat feels a bit overly complicated. If I want to ignore someone on 
chat,
chances are I don't particularly want to see them either, so a single checkbox 
on the pilot dialog could serve both purposes.

On a related note, I believe Jester finished the work that I had originally 
intended
in the MP chat to provide per-frequency chat, rather than a single global 
frequency.
Now that we have FGCom, I suspect there's a lot less need for this than there 
was,
but it would be a nice addition, and a simple way to ignore all the MP chat 
traffic at
KSFO ;)

If we feel that groups are a good idea, an enhancement to Pete's suggestion 
above
would be easy to implement and provide a very flexible function if we have 
client-side
ignore:

1) Each client transmits a /sim/user/group property over MP

2) A dialog backed by some Nasal allows selection of your group 
(freeform/dropdown)
and selection/deselection of specific groups to display or ignore.

3) As new MP clients join, the Nasal code ignores them automatically based on 
their
group and your rules.

This would allow very flexible filtering for a number of useful scenarios:
1) People wanting to fly in a specific group without any other MP people can 
simply create
an ad-hoc group and select to display only that group. 
2) Some pre-defined groups (FGCom, ATC, Beginners, Default)  would allow 
standard
groups to be displayed/ignored easily

-Stuart


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clouds

[Jacob Burbach]

> My screenshot didn't show the proposed menu structure, so here it is:
>
> View
> - Display Options
> - Rendering Options
> - Cockpit View Options
> - Adjust View Distance
> - Adjust HUD Properties
> - Instant Replay
> - Adjust LOD Ranges*

While we're at it, could "Adjust View Distance" be changed to "Adjust
View Position", since that's what it actually does?

cheers
--Jacob

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPS

[Stuart Buchanan]

syd adams wrote:

> Hello James ,
> Just tried the b1900d after a long while , and I have no idea how to
> use my own KLN90B anymore  ... any pointers on how I can fix this ?
> In particular , I cant set the destination waypoint , though it
> appears with a search.
> Thanks.

I had a fairly successful flight in the b1900d at the recent TransGear Airways 
MP event
using the new GPS code/dialog, though I didn't attempt to use the Route Manager 
or program via the KLN90B. This is because I've yet to get totally to grips with
the aircraft rather than because I didn't expect them to work.

I found the integration with the autopilot pretty good, certainly better than I 
expected
given the recently level of code change.

One minor bug was that selecting a NAV ID in the GPS reset the set altitude to 
the NAV 
ID height, but didn't update that altitude select on the panel. I think this 
might be seen as 
a bug in the GPS code rather than the panel, as that's the one altitude you 
don't want ;)
Would it be better to have the GPS simply not update the altitude set for NAV 
IDs (rather than
airports).

Also, I couldn't find a way to set the radial or heading bug within the 
cockpit, so had to resort
to then Autopilot dialog. Was I missing something, or has that still to be 
implemented?

-Stuart


  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Clouds

[Stuart Buchanan]

syd adams wrote:

> Looks good .
> Yeah maybe the runway lights should go in lighting...
> Just a thought , what about a 'rendering options' and 'view options'
> in the main menu , rather than a single view button ?
> 
> At least lots of room in the view to add  my "FOV button" :)

Glad you like it.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "single view button". Were you
refering to the menu structure ?

My screenshot didn't show the proposed menu structure, so here it is:

View
- Display Options
- Rendering Options
- Cockpit View Options
- Adjust View Distance
- Adjust HUD Properties
- Instant Replay
- Adjust LOD Ranges*

* Does anyone know if the LOD menu item actually does anything? I think most
animations I've seen have hard-coded LOD ranges in them rather than refering
to these properties.

It might be worth combining the HUD properties with the Display Options, but
that is something for later.

So you think I should commit these changes? Anyone else got an opinion?

-Stuart



  

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPS

[James Turner]

On 16 Nov 2009, at 07:43, syd adams wrote:

> Just tried the b1900d after a long while , and I have no idea how to
> use my own KLN90B anymore  ... any pointers on how I can fix this ?
> In particular , I cant set the destination waypoint , though it
> appears with a search.

I assume when you talk about setting waypoints and searching, you're  
referring exclusively to the in-panel KLN90 UI? I.e nothing to do with  
the generic GPS dialog?

In which case, the quick answer is that I need to look at the XML/ 
Nasal code for the KLN90, and figure out what changes are required.

The longer answer is, no-one has (yet) tried to model a physical  
device using my generic GPS code, but it need to happen (the sooner  
the better). Right now there is no documentation, and no easy example  
to follow, because this is new territory - which also means I am  
anxious that we create some 'good' examples of how things should be  
done, for other panel authors to follow.

There's various requests pending to get the new route-manager/GPS  
working with some existing aircraft (SenecaII, 787), new aircraft  
(HHS's 737-300) and now yours. It's a good sign that people actually  
want to test the new code, so I'll take some time to understand the  
various panels, fix up some of the existing aircraft, and create some  
documentation on how things should be done.

Regards,
James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPS

[James Turner]

On 16 Nov 2009, at 08:53, Victhor Foster wrote:

> You need to use the Route Manager dialog. The route will only  
> activate once the aircraft is airborne.

Uh, I hope not :) That's not the intended behaviour, and it's not what  
I see. Indeed, I normally activate the route before I taxi out to the  
active runway.

> Look at the GPS dialog. If you see that the destination airport on  
> the current leg is your departure airport, go back to the route  
> manager, search for your destination's ICAO code, then press "DTO".

This is a bug, the code is not detecting when you enter the departure  
runway reliably. As you noted, the easiest fix is to 'DTO' the first  
waypoint in the route after the departure airport. You don't need to  
search though - in the GPS dialog, hit 'active route waypt', which  
should select the current waypoint, use prev/next to select the  
desired waypt (i.e press next once) and hit 'DTO'.

Regards,
James


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

[Vivian Meazza]

Tom,

 

I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with your suggestion,
just that it does not meet the original remit, which was to be able to
ignore players who were not following the "rules", either intentionally or
through ignorance.  

 

We already almost have what you propose with ports 5000/5002. Which reminds
me: IIRC 5001 is reserved for telnet. We rarely use 5002 for development
nowadays, so I suppose there is nothing stopping a bunch of like-minded guys
using that. However, I just have a final reservation - MP was meant to be
the global picture of the airspace - not just a part. 

 

That said perhaps we do need a ban/kick/ignore like IRC for MP. We have
stepped around this issue in the past. 

 

Vivian 

 

-Original Message-
From: Tom P [mailto:zomm...@gmail.com] 
Sent: 15 November 2009 20:32
To: vivian.mea...@lineone.net; FlightGear developers discussions
Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Ignoring MP pilots

 

Hi Vivian

I think that a majority of users configures MP through a launcher interface,
so the convention would be enforced through the UI.
The launcher (fgrun or other) would show a drop-down menu with the Groups
(their name) that a user can join.

The port numbers that I showed were an example, I showed 5000-5005 to keep
backward compatibility with the current setup (5000 = beginners seems like a
good default group for the current installed base), but any consecutive
range of 5 or 10 available ports will do.

About non-complying users, I don't think it would be a great problem.
By choosing a particular group, they choose to comply with the intent of the
group, and we can write down such intent explicitly in a UI text box based
on the selected group, if you feel like.
An example:

  Beginners
  Welcome to FG. This group allows you to get familiar with FG and learn
from fellow pilots.
  
  Under Air Traffic Control
  In this group, pilots fly under Air Traffic Control. By joining, you
are required to comply with ATC rules, please see the details at
http://wiki.flightgear.org/.  ..
  
  Fighters on a mission
  This group is dedicated to flying military aircrafts, simulating
missions and dogfights. 

 Tom



On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Vivian Meazza 
wrote:

Pete Morgan


> Tom P wrote:
> > Hi Torsten
> >
> > That's an interesting concept, I was thinking about groups as well.
> >
> > But instead of writing extra code on top of the current client and
> server,
> > could we use different ports on the server?
> >
> > Let me explain: if I understand correctly, the server already allows
> > connection to port 5002 for testing.,
> > What if we extend the concept to multiple ports and maybe assign a
> > name to the port to make things clear.
> >
> > As you said, some of the predefined groups could be:
> > - Beginner => port 5000
> > - Adheres to/provides ATC => port 5001
> > - Combat/Fighter on a mission => port 5002
> > - Airliner => port 5003
> >
> > (I'd group "Adheres to/provides ATC" and "Airliner" together for now).
> >
> > Obviously the server will need to do a bit more work, but at least the
> > demultiplexing between groups is done by the TCP/IP stack, which is
> > quite optimal.
> >
> > The only drawback is that groups are *really* separate, it would not
> > be easy to see traffic from other groups.
> >
> > Just an idea,
> >
> >   Tom
> I like this idea a lot :-)
>

Nice theory - in practice how do you ensure that users both know about, and,
more importantly, observe the convention? And, what do you do if they don't?

IIRC 5001 is used for telnet, but 5002 is rarely used for development. I
suppose that some "serious" users could use that port by mutual agreement,
accepting that some less serious players might try to join in as well.

The client side ignore device seem to have more practical merit to me.

Vivian





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] GPS

[Victhor Foster]

You need to use the Route Manager dialog. The route will only activate once the 
aircraft is airborne.
Look at the GPS dialog. If you see that the destination airport on the current 
leg is your departure airport, go back to the route manager, search for your 
destination's ICAO code, then press "DTO".
> Hello James ,
> Just tried the b1900d after a long while , and I have no idea how to
> use my own KLN90B anymore  ... any pointers on how I can fix this ?
> In particular , I cant set the destination waypoint , though it
> appears with a search.
> Thanks.
> 
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> trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on 
> what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with
> Crystal Reports now.  http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july
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