Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I had the opportunity to more thoroughly explore Discourse over the holiday, and I really love it! I think most users will already be used to this forum style interface (quasi Stack Exchange). I really like the features of voting and marking replies as The Answer. You've convinced me! I encourage

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Another update on this, almost there :) Threading now apears entirely functional. Ewoud and I ran a private test using Mailgun last night (so as not to spam everyone in case it was still broken). As you can see, in this Gist, it appears to be working in Mutt:

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > Apparently my arguments aren't coming out coherently - I think we've > misunderstood each other on a couple of points... > >> I'm afraid the amount of time waiting doesn't have any influence on >> the feeling if

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Apparently my arguments aren't coming out coherently - I think we've misunderstood each other on a couple of points... > I'm afraid the amount of time waiting doesn't have any influence on > the feeling if something is big bang or not. Sure, that's not what I was trying to say, I was just

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Just a quick update on threading, since that's causing the most pain... On 05/11/17 18:51, Martin Bačovský wrote: > - for some reason the threads are not kept together in my Gmail and the > messages from one thread are split into multiple threads even if they seem > to have same subject. I'm not

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Not reacting to everything here, but I would like to keep the discussion focused on facts. On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 5:17 PM, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > Thanks for returning to excellent debating form :) > > On 07/11/17 08:50, Lukas Zapletal wrote: >> HyperKitty is not just a

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I will just reply to phased rollout. > Also, this may be wishful, but the fact that > people choose to post on StackOverflow rather than our mailing list > again shows a desire for more modern forms of interaction. Why are we creating a duplicate of StackOverflow then? There is a community

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Thanks for returning to excellent debating form :) On 07/11/17 08:50, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > HyperKitty is not just a nice archive, you can easily just use mailing > list as a forum. There are other options like Gmane and others, but I > find HyperKitty as the nicest and smoothest experience.

Re: Draft v2 - Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

> No, I don't think we can. We've been over this in the preceeding emails. > We can give an archive a shiny GUI, but fundamentally they have a > different feature set, and a different target user group. Your position > on Discourse is clear, and recorded here for all to see. If enough > people

Re: Draft v2 - Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

And this is what happens when you edit drafts as new messages. You don't need fancy software to break threading, just a silly mistake will do :) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Draft v2 - Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

On 03/11/17 18:29, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Greg, I absolutely understand the motivation, Good. However, we're not the only two people on this list, and over-communication is key to reducing misunderstanding in remote relationships. You know me pretty well, but others do not, so I lay my position

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Update on threading... On 06/11/17 11:43, Greg Sutcliffe wrote: > Thanks for the testing help, Martin. > > * for some reason the threads are not kept together in my Gmail and the > messages from one thread are split into multiple threads even if they > seem to have same subject. I'm not sure

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Thanks for the testing help, Martin. * for some reason the threads are not kept together in my Gmail and the messages from one thread are split into multiple threads even if they seem to have same subject. I'm not sure why, it may be because I tuned the account settings. I'll keep testing this

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Some updates from the weekend testing: * Inbound email should work properly now (community-t...@theforeman.org to start a topic) * A few people have brought up threading - I'll take this upstream once we've isolated the issue (see reply to Martin). It's actually using a fork of the GitHub email

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

My views do align with Martin here: email does feel like a second class citizen. Sending email does work properly (likely because they could just use the github parser gem) but what it sends out is ... barely enough. On the other hand (and this has been pointed out by other people), it might

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

For monitoring of what is going on on the foreman-dev/users I prefer to consume it as a mailing list. It is lightweight and efficient and fits well to my mail-centric workflow. I understand the benefits of the forum so I gave Discourse a try to see how it works and if its mailing-list mode

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I think about this in two ways: 1) Who are our lists for? 2) How can we provide the most value through our lists to the audience? Often I find digging up old threads to reference to users more painful than it should be. Often, I am curious about popular or trending threads and cannot find this

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Greg, I absolutely understand the motivation, every two years amount of programmers doubles. That is a crazy amount of newcomers. But these new people are not idiots and some technical level is required even for soft roles in our community. And we can make lists approachable very much like forums.

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I also think it's important to note that just because things like mailman have existed for years and will continue to exist for years does not mean they're always the best tool for the job. As open source developers it's also important to be _open_ to change, and always to evaluate what the best

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

One more thought occurred to me while I was out on the nursery pickup, so I'll drop here before I bow out for the weekend. Lukas, I think part of our disagreement is our different goals. As I highlighted in the last mail, users behave differently to devs. These days I consider myself more user

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Putting what I think is the more important part first ... On 03/11/17 13:30, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > What we are running is a mailing list here. We are running a mailing list *today*, and you're right, I want to change that. This may well be where we simply have to stop and let others join in

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

> So if I understand, you're OK with a web interface for creating / > managing a conversation that you don't want in your inbox in Hyperkitty, > but not happy with exactly the same workflow in Discourse? I find that > hard to resolve, can you clarify? All I want is standard mailman-like list

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Thanks Lukas - I wanted a healthy debate, and now I've got one :) This is indeed constructive - you've forced me to go back and examine my starting post more than a few times while writing this. That's a very good thing - we need to be sure of our goal here. There's a lot of good points here,

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Quick update... A few people have been posting to the users/dev categories on Discourse, so let me quickly clarify - there is no sync Discourse -> List. Anything you post there will not make back to the lists. To help prevent that, for now I've locked those 3 categories. Admins can still post,

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I was planning not to reply, but I can't sorry. >>> I don't like Discourse at all. <<< I was hoping to get rid of Google Groups in favour of - wait for it - GNU Mailman! Yeah, you might think this would be step backwards, but let me explain. GNU Mailman is the core of open source. It's the

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

On 03/11/17 10:32, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Greg, I have not interest in moving to any kind of web UI. I want to > send another millions of emails, including those "+1". I think we all > agree that any kind of migration must not disrupt way we work today - > a plain mailing-list we all know and use

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Greg, I have not interest in moving to any kind of web UI. I want to send another millions of emails, including those "+1". I think we all agree that any kind of migration must not disrupt way we work today - a plain mailing-list we all know and use for decades. Thanks for decreasing it. I still

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

On 02/11/17 18:35, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Tried to reply with just few words and I am getting: > > We’re sorry, but your email message to > [“theforeman.discourse+680bec16c469f36694d1ecef341e8...@gmail.com”] > (titled Re: [TheForeman] [Testing Area] October newsletter) didn’t > work. > Reason: >

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 at 19:35, Lukas Zapletal wrote: > Tried to reply with just few words and I am getting: > > We’re sorry, but your email message to > [“theforeman.discourse+680bec16c469f36694d1ecef341e8...@gmail.com”] > (titled Re: [TheForeman] [Testing Area] October

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

Tried to reply with just few words and I am getting: We’re sorry, but your email message to [“theforeman.discourse+680bec16c469f36694d1ecef341e8...@gmail.com”] (titled Re: [TheForeman] [Testing Area] October newsletter) didn’t work. Reason: Body is too short (minimum is 20 characters) If you can

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I appreciate I tend to write a thousand words when pictures might do. Here's one shot from the metrics (which may or may not be accurate as it depends on the MBOX importer being correct, but you get the idea), one from the foreman-users list index, and one from the markdown version of this post

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

On Wed, 2017-11-01 at 14:15 -0400, Andrew Kofink wrote: > I admit, I skimmed the prior emails (they were tl). I just wanted to > ask if discourse is searchable/is indexed from the wider internet. > I've often found relevant mailing list discussions by searching from > Google, and I really value

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

That's indeed one of my aims. One common piece of Discourse wisdom is not to have too many categories, so I don't for see one per plugin - but the system also has tags which would work well in the Support category (I.e. foreman-users) A category for Infra might well make sense separate from dev

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I skimmed the site over, played with configuration, clicked and tried to play with various part of it. There are parts I'll have to get used to, and there are parts I wish were done slightly different but overall I like the advanced power behind it. Thinking a loud, it seems like this might allow

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

The site will be made public if/when we go live with it. I assume Google will index it then, I don't think it does any robots.txt stuff - certainly I'm using google to look up configuration questions on meta.discourse.org :) -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

I admit, I skimmed the prior emails (they were tl). I just wanted to ask if discourse is searchable/is indexed from the wider internet. I've often found relevant mailing list discussions by searching from Google, and I really value that. - Andrew On Wed, Nov 1, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Greg Sutcliffe

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

One more point, we're currently on a free tier of our SMTP provider, which is limited to 6k emails / month & 200 mails / day. I'm seeing if I can negotiate a free higher tier for a FOSS project, but for now, go easy on the mail testing :D Greg -- You received this message because you are

Re: [foreman-dev] Propsing a move from Google Groups to Discourse

OK, some questions I expect to come up: * Will the mailing list import be kept up to date? Yes, I plan to update it every day or two. Happily it's incremental (no 7 hour import) but sadly it's not something that's easy to automate. It's also why I've not renamed the categories yet, or fixed