RE: FM to pdf-bookmarks expansion

[Nidhi Bansal]

Hi,

I too have the same version applications. I tried deselecting the Bookmarks
while saving my Book as PDF it works properly.
You can try again with these settings in the Bookmark Tag:
Unchecked the Generated PDF Book
Empty the list if it is in Include frame
Unchecked the Include Paragraph Tags in Bookmark Text
Also unchecked the articles.

I think if you follw these it will work.

Note: Close the PDF file if (any)opened before going for these steps.

Regards,
Nidhi 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Radha Padmanabhan
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:33 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FM to pdf-bookmarks expansion

Hi Framers,
FM 7.0 with XP. Acrobat Professional6.0, Distiller6.0
I try to save my FM Book as pdf or print to postscript and then make pdf.
In the pdf settings dialog box, in the 'Bookmarks' tab, I select 'None' for
Bookmarks expanded through level' check box. But still it expands the
bookmarks in the pdf to the last level. It is very strenuous to manually
collapse hunderds of bookmarks. What do I do?
(In my previous PC it was working well but in my current one it is not)
Thanks
Radha


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Re: New figure object [was Re: table and figure captions]

[Hedley Finger]

Fred Ridder wrote:
 I think it would be a great idea if we could treat anchored
 frames as embedded objects with similar properties to tables. But I do
 think it would want to be implemented for anchored frames generically
 rather than just for figures since some documents use anchored frames
 (or single-cell tables) for things other than illustrations--things like
 spreadsheet fragments, code listings, and mathematical proofs. 

Of course, you wouldn't want the full folderol for an anchored frame 
with Anchor Position: At Insertion Point that contains a bitmap of, say, 
a button on a GUI.   8^)

 (Although
 if you read the article by a former IBM-er that was cited earlier in this
 thread you'd learn that we shoudl treat *all* non-text objects as a 
 single
 class rather than distinguishing tables vs. figures vs. equations, etc.)

Well, it might make sense for a programmer to do this behind the 
scenes.  But I don't really care how it is implemented, I just want a 
nice clean interface for inserting figures and some method of creating 
figure formats in a Figure Designer.  It would be extremely annoying to 
open An All-Purpose Object Designer to configure the type of object you 
wanted and to create all-purpose object formats.


 But what I completely fail to see is why handling figures in 
 single-celled
 tables is such a pain to set up.

Yeah, it is so fun to (a) insert a single-celled table previously set up 
as a format, (b) import a graphic file or create an anchored frame into 
the single para in the cell, and (c) set the anchored frame to At 
Insertion Point so you can get the spacing even all around, and then (d) 
adjust the cell borders (or anchored frame border) to coincide of the 
figure has a ruled box around it.

Wouldn't it be great if you could just select a Figure format when you 
are in the file browser and the external graphic is imported into a 
figure all ready to fill in the blanks?

I just looked up a textbook on printing technologies (for training press 
operators, platemakers, etc.) and a doctoral dissertation.  The figures 
in those publications follow this model, pretty common in learned 
publications:


++
||
||
||
|   DIAGRAM HERE |
||
||
||
++

**Figure 2.34:** //Components of framistan//  // Title for LOF

The framistan is a complex device which // Caption
contains 12,000 components in about
the volume of a matchbox.

KEY:
1Discombobulator// Xref to fig label
2Hierogriffin
...
12,000   Pettifogger
  Credit: NASA (Saturn rocket)


How do you like them bananas in a table pretending to be a figure?  I 
prefer to put the figure title above, and the caption below, and I 
usually do it with:

@a figure title para (Keep With Next)

@an anchor para with an anchored frame At Insertion Point (allows 
you to use para properties to control space above/below, indentation), 
Keep With Previous

@a credit para with Keep With Previous

@one or more caption paras, all Keep With Previous, inc. any keys to 
labels in anchored frame

This arrangement keeps the figure object together.  I also use  the 
AutoText plug-in from  Silicon Prairie to paste in already set up figure 
formats.  But, really, why isn't this stuff built in?  [NOTE: Adobe 
lurkers -- aren't the plethora of plug-ins for common tasks telling you 
what functionality you should be incorporating?]

It would be nice if a table/figure title could appear beside a 
table/figure, perhaps in the sidebar area of a page frame.

Regards,
Hedley

--

Hedley Finger

28 Regent Street   Camberwell VIC 3124   Australia
Tel. +61 3 9809 1229   Fax. (call phone first)
Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558
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RE: question about open source DTP program

[McCallister, Michael (GE Healthcare, consultant)]

Deb,

I'm planning to use Scribus to put together a project portfolio to post
on my website and have in PDF form. I played with it quite a bit while
writing openSUSE Linux Unleashed. It is much more stable than it was a
couple years ago, and should work quite well for brochures and such. It
doesn't have the long-document (book-type) features of FrameMaker, but
is good for the PageMaker/InDesign tasks.

HTH,

Mike


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Deborah Wible
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:16 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: question about open source DTP program

Hi there.
 
Does anyone who has experience with a free open source DTP program at
www.scribus.net BLOCKED::http://www.scribus.net  care to comment on
it?
For example, is anyone at your company using it for brochures or
collateral?
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Re: New figure object [was Re: table and figure captions]

[Mike Wickham]

 Yeah, it is so fun to (a) insert a single-celled table previously set up
 as a format, (b) import a graphic file or create an anchored frame into
 the single para in the cell, and (c) set the anchored frame to At
 Insertion Point so you can get the spacing even all around, and then (d)
 adjust the cell borders (or anchored frame border) to coincide of the
 figure has a ruled box around it.

 Wouldn't it be great if you could just select a Figure format when you
 are in the file browser and the external graphic is imported into a
 figure all ready to fill in the blanks?

I like that idea. In the meantime, the inexpensive AutoText plugin is even
more capable. You can create sample tables for holding your graphics with
accompanying text, captions, callouts, etc. Then you can pluck the whole
thing from a menu whenever you need it.

For example, AutoText can pop in a table that includes a heading and text
placeholder in the left column. On the right are graphic and caption
placeholders to illustrate the text. All the appropriate paragraph tags--
heading, body, anchor, caption-- are in place. Even the paragraph tag that
holds the anchored frame is predefined. Just click and type or click
and insert the graphic. (I actually reprogrammed a function key to import
graphics.) My table also contains a separate anchored frame, attached to
the caption paragraph, that is set to Outside Column, Side Closer to Page
Edge, and is rotated 90°. I use this to display the photographer's name next
to the photo's edge. A figure style probably wouldn't have that capability.

Mike Wickham



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Re: RE: MS Word vs. Frame

[quills]

Basically they are incompetent with either tool, and your worst case scenario 
is that they are hopeless. 

This is what expert staff is supposed to do. 

I once had an employer comment on a recommendation to switch to structured 
Frame, since I was the only expert they had, with ...what do we do if Scott, a 
contractor, decides to move to Aruba? It's a specious argument. Deciding not 
to do something based not on what the tool can do for you, and only on the 
current availability of an employee is stupid. If the company can't afford to 
invest in expert staff to accomplish a task (even as a contractor), they can't 
afford to be in business.

It's part of the cost of doing business. 

Scott


 On Tue 08/06/10 16:05 , Combs, Richard  sent:

 I have to go against my fellow list-members (and my own preferences) on
 this one. As John noted, they apparently don't _really_ know how to use
 Word -- and thus will likely mess things up when they do the minor
 updates. OTOH, learning FM is non-trivial, and if they don't use
 stylesin Word, they're likely to mess up FM docs, too, even after some
 training. At the least, you'd have to modify the interface to disable
 adhoc formatting controls as much as possible.

 Msg sent via Internet America Webmail - www.internetamerica.com
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Re: FM to pdf-bookmarks expansion

[Shlomo Perets]

Radha,

You wrote:

FM 7.0 with XP. Acrobat Professional6.0, Distiller6.0
I try to save my FM Book as pdf or print to postscript and then make pdf.
In the pdf settings dialog box, in the 'Bookmarks' tab, I select
'None' for Bookmarks expanded through level' check box. But still it
expands the bookmarks in the pdf to the last level. It is very
strenuous to manually collapse hunderds of bookmarks. What do I do?
(In my previous PC it was working well but in my current one it is not)

FrameMaker's control of bookmark collapse/expand state is not always 
consistent.

Other than using add-ons, you can quickly set the bookmark collapse/expand 
state in Acrobat by Ctrl-clicking the [-] icon to the left of a bookmark 
will collapse *all* subordinate bookmarks (and likewise, Ctrl-cliking the 
[+] icon will expand all subordinate bookmarks). Use Save or Save As to 
store the bookmark collapse/expand state in the PDF.


Shlomo Perets
MicroType, FrameMaker/Acrobat training  consulting

24 easy ways to improve your PDFs with FrameMaker-to-Acrobat 
TimeSavers/Assistants,
http://www.microtype.com/ImprovePDF.html



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Re: Converting fm files to xml

[Lynne A. Price]

Daniel,

1) Is another attribute written instead of the href attribute?

2) Are you sure your r/w rules are being read? It could be a search path 
issue. Does your application definition (probably in structapps.fm) specify 
a complete pathname for the rules file. (One simple way to verify that the 
correct file is being read is to add a new rule with a syntax error and 
confirm that FM reports the syntax error.)

 --Lynne

At 05:54 AM 6/10/2008, Daniel Osborn wrote:
Dear Framers, I am trying to save lots of .fm files as .xml in FM 7.2. 
I've written an application and when I save a single .fm file as .xml it 
works fine. When I use the Utility: File  Utilities  Convert structured 
documents, something goes wrong. The conversion runs fine but the 'href' 
attribute for the images is not included in the output files. My rules 
file includes the line:attribute href is fm property file; And, 
as I say, when I save an individual file as xml it's fine, so it looks 
like a bug. Does anyone have any ideas how to fix or workaround this? 
Thanks, Daniel Daniel Osborn | Usability Engineer - Technical Writer | 
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Framemaker - fraction symbols

[Bill Stevens]

Hi Framers,

 

I am trying to find a two-thirds fraction character/symbol for FrameMaker 8.
At the moment I am typing 2/3 but it looks yuk! I have nice fractions for ¼
(Alt+0188) and ½ (Alt+0189) but 2/3 escapes me. Can anyone help?

 

Thanks

Bill 

Kratos Analytical Ltd, Wharfside, Trafford Wharf Road, Manchester M17 1GP.
Tel: +44 (0) 161 888 4400 Ext 330
Fax: +44 (0) 161 888 4401

Company Number 563161. Registered in England. Registered Offices as above.

This electronic transmission is strictly confidential and intended solely
for the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, you must not
disclose, copy or take any action in reliance of this transmission. If you
have received this transmission in error, it would be helpful if you could
notify us as soon as possible. Thank you.

 



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RE: Blank Pages in Online Help

[Combs, Richard]

Melissa Di Natale

 Right now in my Frame documents I have no blank pages (I have it set
so
 that any empty pages are deleted). But when I convert in Webworks for
 online help I'm getting a blank page at the end of every chapter. Does
 anybody know how to get rid of this? I'm wondering if it's because I
 have Frame set to be double sided for when it's printed.

Since WebWorks doesn't do anything to your FM files (except read them),
I assume these blank pages are in the MIF files that WebWorks creates in
the project's Temp folder. So why do you care about their pagination? 

If those blank pages are really empty, they have zero effect on the
help output and are completely irrelevant. You shouldn't even be aware
of them, since you shouldn't be doing anything manually with those MIF
files. 

Maybe I'm not understanding the issue. :-}

Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--






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RE: Framemaker - fraction symbols

[Teasdale, Steven (GE EntSol, Digital Energy)]

Hi Bill

The 2/3 fraction is not part of the standard 8-bit ASCII character set (first 
256 characters). However, it is available as Unicode character U+2154 in many 
Unicode-enabled fonts, such as the default Arial font that comes with Windows. 
I'm not sure how to enter it directly in FM8, but you can copy it from the 
character map.

Steven Teasdale
GE Multilin


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Stevens
Sent: June 11, 2008 9:35 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framemaker - fraction symbols

Hi Framers,

 

I am trying to find a two-thirds fraction character/symbol for FrameMaker 8.
At the moment I am typing 2/3 but it looks yuk! I have nice fractions for ¼
(Alt+0188) and ½ (Alt+0189) but 2/3 escapes me. Can anyone help?

 

Thanks

Bill 

Kratos Analytical Ltd, Wharfside, Trafford Wharf Road, Manchester M17 1GP.
Tel: +44 (0) 161 888 4400 Ext 330
Fax: +44 (0) 161 888 4401

Company Number 563161. Registered in England. Registered Offices as above.

This electronic transmission is strictly confidential and intended solely for 
the addressee. If you are not the intended addressee, you must not disclose, 
copy or take any action in reliance of this transmission. If you have received 
this transmission in error, it would be helpful if you could notify us as soon 
as possible. Thank you.

 



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disagreement on overrides

[Milan Davidovic]

The way I've been brought up as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
set in question.

Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
and how did you go about resolving it?

Thanks.

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
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Re: disagreement on overrides

[Art Campbell]

Well, I'm with you and your approach simply because it makes it much
easier to work on and to ensure consistency, because only the person
who created them knows what the override is supposed to do.

There's also the possibility that the override will be interpreted
somewhat differently than its intention in PDF, but I think it only
makes a BIG difference when you start supporting more output formats
or some of the overrides don't work as intended.

Output and conversion filters, in general, don't like overrides, so
something is going to fall out of the document and not get translated.
And then there's going to be some fast shuffling, on deadline, to make
it all work again. And that can be avoided if you impose some controls
via para and character tags early on.

Getting a writer who doesn't see the value in this, or who doesn't
want to comply, is the problem, and that's a human relations problem.
If you're peers, and management isn't setting a course that makes
fewer overrides a logical way to do things If you have some
authority to set things up that makes it slightly easier and
different.

Art

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Milan Davidovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 The way I've been brought up as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
 wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
 liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
 unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
 onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
 set in question.

 Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
 and how did you go about resolving it?

 Thanks.

 --
 Milan Davidovic
 http://altmilan.blogspot.com

-- 
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358
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RE: disagreement on overrides

[Combs, Richard]

Milan Davidovic wrote:

 The way I've been brought up as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
 wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
 liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
 unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
 onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
 set in question.
 
 Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
 and how did you go about resolving it?

First question: Who's in charge? 

There are many good reasons for adhering to a template. But the first
thing to determine is whether you (a) are empowered to _tell_ the other
writer not to deviate from the template, (b) must _persuade_ the other
writer, or (c) must appeal this issue to a third person. 

Second question: Who owns the template? 

The template owner should look at the kinds of overrides the other
writer is applying and determine if some of them result from an outage
in the template or from a failure of the writer to understand how to use
it. 

Third question: How important is this to you and to the company? 

If you're in charge, of course, it doesn't have to be all that
important. You say, This is how I want you to do things, and that's
that. A preference is all you need. If it's someone else, how hard are
you willing to work to win the decision-maker over to your way of doing
things?

Also, you have to consider where the company is in its life cycle, and
how long these docs are likely to be around (because overrides are less
important in short-lived, throwaway docs, and much more of a pain in
docs that will see lots of revisions and maintenance). You may decide
it's not worth fighting over, or you may decide that now's the time to
draw the line in the sand.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy for long in a situation such as you
describe. If my carefully crafted templates were routinely disregarded
and overridden, and there was nothing I could do about it, I'd have to
make some kind of change -- different project, co-worker, or company. 

But that's me. YMMV.

Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--






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Re: disagreement on overrides

[Peter Gold]

The only good argument I've seen for overrides as a normal way of
working is to control breaks across frames, columns, and pages, for a
particular round of publication. They can be removed in one operation
by importing a document's formats to itself, and choosing to remove
overrides. Before saving the result, verify by comparing the
before-and-after versions.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
__
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Combs, Richard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Milan Davidovic wrote:

 The way I've been brought up as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
 wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
 liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
 unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
 onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
 set in question.

 Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
 and how did you go about resolving it?

 First question: Who's in charge?

 There are many good reasons for adhering to a template. But the first
 thing to determine is whether you (a) are empowered to _tell_ the other
 writer not to deviate from the template, (b) must _persuade_ the other
 writer, or (c) must appeal this issue to a third person.

 Second question: Who owns the template?

 The template owner should look at the kinds of overrides the other
 writer is applying and determine if some of them result from an outage
 in the template or from a failure of the writer to understand how to use
 it.

 Third question: How important is this to you and to the company?

 If you're in charge, of course, it doesn't have to be all that
 important. You say, This is how I want you to do things, and that's
 that. A preference is all you need. If it's someone else, how hard are
 you willing to work to win the decision-maker over to your way of doing
 things?

 Also, you have to consider where the company is in its life cycle, and
 how long these docs are likely to be around (because overrides are less
 important in short-lived, throwaway docs, and much more of a pain in
 docs that will see lots of revisions and maintenance). You may decide
 it's not worth fighting over, or you may decide that now's the time to
 draw the line in the sand.

 Personally, I wouldn't be happy for long in a situation such as you
 describe. If my carefully crafted templates were routinely disregarded
 and overridden, and there was nothing I could do about it, I'd have to
 make some kind of change -- different project, co-worker, or company.

 But that's me. YMMV.

 Richard


 Richard G. Combs
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Re: disagreement on overrides

[Susan Modlin]

I think the key to the question is why the other writer is using overrides. We 
all know it's pretty much an article of faith that thou shalt not use overrides 
for anything other than controlling page breaks, as Peter notes. 

So why is the other writer overriding? I can think of three reasons for the 
malefactor's behavior:

1. Ignorance. The writer hasn't seen the ramifications of overrides run 
amok during an upgrade or comes from the world of word where this is normal 
behavior.

2. Something's missing from the template. As a long-time template 
designer, I know how impossible it is to get everything exactly right the first 
time. Perhaps this writer is creating a different type of information that 
doesn't lend itself to the existing formats.
3. Sheer perversity. In which case, all the advise about persuasion and 
big sticks comes in handySusan


- Original Message 
From: Peter Gold [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Combs, Richard [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Framer's List framers@lists.frameusers.com
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:42:14 PM
Subject: Re: disagreement on overrides

The only good argument I've seen for overrides as a normal way of
working is to control breaks across frames, columns, and pages, for a
particular round of publication. They can be removed in one operation
by importing a document's formats to itself, and choosing to remove
overrides. Before saving the result, verify by comparing the
before-and-after versions.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
__
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices


  
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RE: disagreement on overrides

[Syed.Hosain]

 The way I've been brought up as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
 wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
 liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
 unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
 onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
 set in question.
 
 Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
 and how did you go about resolving it?

I assume by overrides, you mean a person applies font formats and
other paragraph formats, etc., to text and paragraphs from the menu bar
or key strokes, and does not use the templates that were developed for a
good reason!

Our approach is to fire anybody who does this. And, I am only just
kidding a little bit! We have had technical writing contractors, who we
let go because they would not follow our rules in this regard.

Seriously, the problem with overrides should be obvious. Anytime, a
given template or paragraph design or character design is changed, then
the reapplication of that new design can cause havoc with the overrides.
Particularly when there are a gazillion of them - it is usually
impossible to find each one and figure out why they were done, etc.

So, we disallow text and paragraph overrides - people who do them, tend
to learn the hard way, when their nice, pretty, document, gets messed up
when somebody else has to do some edits to the documents.

Now, in Word or Powerpoint, we have too many people doing their own
edits in this manner and the result is that we periodically have to dump
a new template onto everybody and rap knuckles accordingly when we do
this. Does not always work.

Z
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Re: MS Word vs. Frame

[Angela Akridge]

I convinced them to use Frame. I kinda said, no way in hell am I gonna
recommend Word. My basis was exactly what this group pointed out: they
aren't using the Word capabilities that are required (e.g. styles, etc), so
if I'm gonna train the pm, I might as well train him on Frame. I also scared
him by saying that writers just don't like Word, so recruiting would be
difficult. You asked about the project manager. The pm is the Product
Management VP, Engineering VP, Recruiter, and tech writer.  Poor guy.

I'll probably use Frame/WebWorks solution. I like ePublisher Pro because it
works well with Frame, but I'd go with MadCap Flare (without Frame), if I
can convince the company that they don't need manuals, but that's a more
difficult argument to make. :)

Angela

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Diane Gaskill [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Hi Ang,

 You're kidding me, right?  You are actually considering Word instead of FM?

 We use both here, but are working away from Word, manual by manual.  The
 Word templates were created from my FM templates.  I converted FM to Word
 with Mif2Go.  Yay Jeremy!

 Just my 2c worth, but if there are no styles in their Word docs, I don't
 think they really know how to use Word.  And I expect that they know much
 about manuals either. I srongly encourage you to take the lead here and get
 them on the right path.  They will luv ya in the long run.

 Sure, Word sounds like the easy way at the moment, but trust me, not in the
 long run. And I think the company will happier with FM too.  BTW, if you
 need something to convince them, I have lots of Word vs FM comparison docs
 that I've either written or collected over the last 10 years or so.  Let me
 know if you need them.

 Why does the project manager need to learn FM?  To comment on your docs?
 No, Word is not the way.  Buy FM8 and Acrobat 8 Pro.  Get the free Acrobat
 8
 reader for them.  With Acrobat8 Pro, you can create PDFs that they can
 commment in, highlight, edit, and more, just like they can with Word.  And
 you can keep right on using FM.  BTW, if you are worried about converting
 the Word docs to FM, don't.  FM8 has a great new filter that really does
 convert Word docs into FM, tables and graphics and everything.  I use it
 all
 the time.  No, not the RTF filter.  It's called Microsoft Word 7.  Sure
 beats those old Mastersoft filters that Frame Technology bought to make the
 sale of FM to Adobe.

 If I understand your message, you will be creating both docs and online
 help.  If that is the case, don't by FM and don't buy Acrobat.  Yes, I am
 serious.  Don't buy them.

 Huh?  What?  Don't buy FM and Acrobat?

 No, don't buy them.  That is, not separately.

 Instead, buy the new Adobe Techinical Communications Suite. It includes a
 linked version of FM8 and Robo7, plus Acrobat NINE Pro extended (yep, 9),
 and a really neat tool called Captivate.  We just bought it for several of
 us and let me tell you it is fan-tastic.  We are saving lots of time
 and
 work.  You can author in FM and convert the manual to Robo online HTML
 help.
 TOC, index, glossary, everything.  It depends on how you set it up.  You
 use
 conditional text in FM to set up what goes in the help an what doesn't.
  You
 set up the tag mapping from FM to Robo (it's easy, nothing like WWP was),
 do
 a couple more easy setup things, hit the convert button, and presto, online
 help. You can also author in Robo and import back to FM if you want, but
 I'd
 recommend setting it up as author in FM, print docs from FM, import by
 reference into Robo.

 Captivate is amazing.  3D interactive graphics in a PDF file.  Live
 installation demos with almost no instructions to write.  No special
 viewers, just Acrobat Reader 7 or 8.  Who'd have ever thought you could do
 this?  You run a GUI and record your actions.  Users can play it back as a
 demo or walk themselves through it, with popup instructions guiding them
 along if you want.  I'll send you a demo file I created offline 'cause the
 list strips attachments.  It is really cool.

 Microsoft, eat your heart out. :-)

 Gee, do I sound like I'm selling it or something?  Well, that wasn't my
 intent, but I gotta tellya, these toys are really fun to play with, and the
 big bosses are already taking notice of what we are doing.

 BTW, thank you Matt Sullivan, wheever you are.  That was a great TCS class.
 We'll be hitting you with questions pretty soon.

 Cheers,

 Diane Gaskill
 Hitachi Data Systems
 Santa Clara, CA

 ===


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Angela Akridge
 Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:07 PM
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: MS Word vs. Frame


 Hi,

 Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text insets?
 Conditional text?

 I'm a contractor for a very small startup that has a limited budget. I've
 been tasked to create their online help. They currently have manuals in MS
 Word, though 

New figure object [was "Re: table and figure captions"]

[Hedley Finger]

Deirdre Reagan wrote:
> Does anyone know why FM automatically makes Table captions but not
> Figure captions?
>   

You have had your answer elsewhere on this list.  But, seriously, why 
isn't there a figure object that is similar to a one-celled table, which 
is a pain to set up.

The new figure object would have:

@an anchor for the entire object,
@similar placement options to a table (top of page, bottom of page, 
etc.)
@be able to *float onto another page without dragging its anchor 
para after it* (fix tables too)
@contain an anchored frame, title, multi-para caption, and figure 
footnotes (like a table)
@a  Figure Designer dialogue where you could set various options (no 
title, title placement, borders and fill rulings and colours, etc.)
@the ability to output to MIF in a previous format where the figure 
components would be separated into separate objects (title para, 
anchored frame, caption para(s), or into a new MIF format where it was 
just a single object

While we are at it, for both figure and table you should be able to 
specify the placement of the title and caption/footnotes relative to the 
body: above, below, left side, right side, alternating left and right 
sides depending on pagination, etc.

I have been proposing this to Frame Technologies and Adobe since c. 
1798.  We live in hope.  Please feel free to forward this to your 
favourite Adobe contact/forum/blog if you think, this is a good idea

Regards,
Hedley

--

Hedley Finger

28 Regent Street   Camberwell VIC 3124   Australia
Tel. +61 3 9809 1229   Fax. (call phone first)
Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558
Email. "Hedley Finger" 

New figure object [was "Re: table and figure captions"]

[Fred Ridder]

Responding to Deirdre Reagan's original query, Hedley Finger wrote
(in small part):

> Deirdre Reagan wrote:
> > Does anyone know why FM automatically makes Table captions but not
> > Figure captions?
> 
> You have had your answer elsewhere on this list. But, seriously, why 
> isn't there a figure object that is similar to a one-celled table, which 
> is a pain to set up.

I was thinking about this very idea after I posted my previous message
on this thread. I think it would be a great idea if we could treat anchored
frames as embedded objects with similar properties to tables. But I do
think it would want to be implemented for anchored frames generically
rather than just for figures since some documents use anchored frames
(or single-cell tables) for things other than illustrations--things like 
spreadsheet fragments, code listings, and mathematical proofs. (Although
if you read the article by a former IBM-er that was cited earlier in this 
thread you'd learn that we shoudl treat *all* non-text objects as a single 
class rather than distinguishing tables vs. figures vs. equations, etc.)

But what I completely fail to see is why handling figures in single-celled 
tables is such a "pain to set up". I've designed and used templates that
work both ways and I have to say that I don't have a clear preference.
Each has advantages and disadvantages. I do know from experience
that the single-cell table approach takes significantly more explaining 
when training new template users, but it's not hard to set up in the 
template, and only a little harder for writers to use than the paragraph-
based approach. 

-FR



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table and figure captions

[Nidhi Bansal]

Hi Deirdre,

I am not sure whether this information will help you out or not

Table Captions comes automatically, since in the Table>table Designer>Title
Position or the Caption (as we r discussing) on the Basic tab it is set as
Above Table/below table. You can set how the Table caption should look
through the Paragraph designer. Make a Format TCaption (or any other mane)
and in the Numbering tab set T: 

FM to pdf-bookmarks expansion

[Radha Padmanabhan]

Hi Framers,
FM 7.0 with XP. Acrobat Professional6.0, Distiller6.0
I try to save my FM Book as pdf or print to postscript and then make pdf.
In the pdf settings dialog box, in the 'Bookmarks' tab, I select 'None' for 
Bookmarks expanded through level' check box. But still it expands the bookmarks 
in the pdf to the last level. It is very strenuous to manually collapse 
hunderds of bookmarks. What do I do?
(In my previous PC it was working well but in my current one it is not)
Thanks
Radha


  Best Jokes, Best Friends, Best Food and more. Go to 
http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/bestofyahoo/

FM to pdf-bookmarks expansion

[Nidhi Bansal]

Hi,

I too have the same version applications. I tried deselecting the Bookmarks
while saving my Book as PDF it works properly.
You can try again with these settings in the Bookmark Tag:
Unchecked the "Generated PDF Book"
Empty the list if it is in "Include" frame
Unchecked the "Include Paragraph Tags in Bookmark Text"
Also unchecked the articles.

I think if you follw these it will work.

Note: Close the PDF file if (any)opened before going for these steps.

Regards,
Nidhi 


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Radha Padmanabhan
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:33 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FM to pdf-bookmarks expansion

Hi Framers,
FM 7.0 with XP. Acrobat Professional6.0, Distiller6.0
I try to save my FM Book as pdf or print to postscript and then make pdf.
In the pdf settings dialog box, in the 'Bookmarks' tab, I select 'None' for
Bookmarks expanded through level' check box. But still it expands the
bookmarks in the pdf to the last level. It is very strenuous to manually
collapse hunderds of bookmarks. What do I do?
(In my previous PC it was working well but in my current one it is not)
Thanks
Radha


  Best Jokes, Best Friends, Best Food and more. Go to
http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/bestofyahoo/
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New figure object [was "Re: table and figure captions"]

[Hedley Finger]

Fred Ridder wrote:
> I think it would be a great idea if we could treat anchored
> frames as embedded objects with similar properties to tables. But I do
> think it would want to be implemented for anchored frames generically
> rather than just for figures since some documents use anchored frames
> (or single-cell tables) for things other than illustrations--things like
> spreadsheet fragments, code listings, and mathematical proofs. 

Of course, you wouldn't want the full folderol for an anchored frame 
with Anchor Position: At Insertion Point that contains a bitmap of, say, 
a button on a GUI.   8^)

> (Although
> if you read the article by a former IBM-er that was cited earlier in this
> thread you'd learn that we shoudl treat *all* non-text objects as a 
> single
> class rather than distinguishing tables vs. figures vs. equations, etc.)

Well, it might make sense for a programmer to do this behind the 
scenes.  But I don't really care how it is implemented, I just want a 
nice clean interface for inserting figures and some method of creating 
figure formats in a Figure Designer.  It would be extremely annoying to 
open An All-Purpose Object Designer to configure the type of object you 
wanted and to create all-purpose object formats.

>
> But what I completely fail to see is why handling figures in 
> single-celled
> tables is such a "pain to set up".

Yeah, it is so fun to (a) insert a single-celled table previously set up 
as a format, (b) import a graphic file or create an anchored frame into 
the single para in the cell, and (c) set the anchored frame to At 
Insertion Point so you can get the spacing even all around, and then (d) 
adjust the cell borders (or anchored frame border) to coincide of the 
figure has a ruled box around it.

Wouldn't it be great if you could just select a Figure format when you 
are in the file browser and the external graphic is imported into a 
figure all ready to fill in the blanks?

I just looked up a textbook on printing technologies (for training press 
operators, platemakers, etc.) and a doctoral dissertation.  The figures 
in those publications follow this model, pretty common in learned 
publications:


++
||
||
||
|   DIAGRAM HERE |
||
||
||
++

**Figure 2.34:** //Components of framistan//  // Title for LOF

The framistan is a complex device which // Caption
contains 12,000 components in about
the volume of a matchbox.

KEY:
1Discombobulator// Xref to fig label
2Hierogriffin
...
12,000   Pettifogger
  Credit: NASA (Saturn rocket)


How do you like them bananas in a table pretending to be a figure?  I 
prefer to put the figure title above, and the caption below, and I 
usually do it with:

@a figure title para (Keep With Next)

@an anchor para with an anchored frame At Insertion Point (allows 
you to use para properties to control space above/below, indentation), 
Keep With Previous

@a credit para with Keep With Previous

@one or more caption paras, all Keep With Previous, inc. any keys to 
labels in anchored frame

This arrangement keeps the figure "object" together.  I also use  the 
AutoText plug-in from  Silicon Prairie to paste in already set up figure 
"formats".  But, really, why isn't this stuff built in?  [NOTE: Adobe 
lurkers -- aren't the plethora of plug-ins for common tasks telling you 
what functionality you should be incorporating?]

It would be nice if a table/figure title could appear beside a 
table/figure, perhaps in the sidebar area of a page frame.

Regards,
Hedley

--

Hedley Finger

28 Regent Street   Camberwell VIC 3124   Australia
Tel. +61 3 9809 1229   Fax. (call phone first)
Mob. (cell) +61 412 461 558
Email. "Hedley Finger" 

AUTO: John Pilla is unavailable. (returning 16-06-2008)

[John Pilla]

I am out of the office until 16-06-2008.

I am on vacation and not available until Monday, 16 June.
(Visiting the island of Brigadoon . . . . . )


Note: This is an automated response to your message  "Framers Digest, Vol
32, Issue 12" sent on 6/12/08 3:00:01.

This is the only notification you will receive while this person is away.

question about open source DTP program

[Bodvar Bjorgvinsson]

Can't say I have. I tried it on my Linux a couple of years ago while
still in its low 0. (which would mean Beta). It  was very slow and
rather buggy at that time. I have only heard of it since and the
reputation is getting better. This is one of the applications that I
would very much like to explore. And your link reminds me that I
should check it out soon. :-)

In the Open Source environment, the thing that comes closest to FM is
probably TeX/LaTeX, but it sadly lacks proper graphical front end.
There  are front ends available for it and special applications based
on it, but they seem to be limited to writing theses, mainly in the
mathematical area.

Thanks for the link.

Bodvar

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:15 AM, Deborah Wible  wrote:
> Hi there.
>
> Does anyone who has experience with a free open source DTP program at
> www.scribus.net   care to comment on
> it?
> For example, is anyone at your company using it for brochures or
> collateral?
> One (old) review touted it as a replacement for InDesign or QuarkExpress
> http://www.osnews.com/story/4064.
>
> I'm CERTAIN there is no open source DTP replacement that has the power
> and flexibility of FrameMaker (which I love), but correct me if I'm
> wrong! Thanks.
>
> --deb--
> ___

question about open source DTP program

[McCallister, Michael (GE Healthcare, consultant)]

Deb,

I'm planning to use Scribus to put together a project portfolio to post
on my website and have in PDF form. I played with it quite a bit while
writing "openSUSE Linux Unleashed." It is much more stable than it was a
couple years ago, and should work quite well for brochures and such. It
doesn't have the long-document (book-type) features of FrameMaker, but
is good for the PageMaker/InDesign tasks.

HTH,

Mike


-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Deborah Wible
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 7:16 PM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: question about open source DTP program

Hi there.

Does anyone who has experience with a free open source DTP program at
www.scribus.net   care to comment on
it?
For example, is anyone at your company using it for brochures or
collateral?

New figure object [was "Re: table and figure captions"]

[Mike Wickham]

> Yeah, it is so fun to (a) insert a single-celled table previously set up
> as a format, (b) import a graphic file or create an anchored frame into
> the single para in the cell, and (c) set the anchored frame to At
> Insertion Point so you can get the spacing even all around, and then (d)
> adjust the cell borders (or anchored frame border) to coincide of the
> figure has a ruled box around it.
>
> Wouldn't it be great if you could just select a Figure format when you
> are in the file browser and the external graphic is imported into a
> figure all ready to fill in the blanks?

I like that idea. In the meantime, the inexpensive AutoText plugin is even
more capable. You can create sample tables for holding your graphics with
accompanying text, captions, callouts, etc. Then you can pluck the whole
thing from a menu whenever you need it.

For example, AutoText can pop in a table that includes a heading and text
placeholder in the left column. On the right are graphic and caption
placeholders to illustrate the text. All the appropriate paragraph tags--
heading, body, anchor, caption-- are in place. Even the paragraph tag that
holds the anchored frame is predefined. Just click and type or click
and insert the graphic. (I actually reprogrammed a function key to import
graphics.) My table also contains a separate anchored frame, attached to
the caption paragraph, that is set to Outside Column, Side Closer to Page
Edge, and is rotated 90?. I use this to display the photographer's name next
to the photo's edge. A figure style probably wouldn't have that capability.

Mike Wickham

MS Word vs. Frame

[qui...@airmail.net]

Basically they are incompetent with either tool, and your worst case scenario 
is that they are hopeless. 

This is what expert staff is supposed to do. 

I once had an employer comment on a recommendation to switch to structured 
Frame, since I was the only expert they had, with "...what do we do if Scott, a 
contractor, decides to move to Aruba?" It's a specious argument. Deciding not 
to do something based not on what the tool can do for you, and only on the 
current availability of an employee is stupid. If the company can't afford to 
invest in expert staff to accomplish a task (even as a contractor), they can't 
afford to be in business.

It's part of the cost of doing business. 

Scott


 On Tue 08/06/10 16:05 , "Combs, Richard"  sent:

> I have to go against my fellow list-members (and my own preferences) on
> this one. As John noted, they apparently don't _really_ know how to use
> Word -- and thus will likely mess things up when they do the "minor
> updates." OTOH, learning FM is non-trivial, and if they don't use
> stylesin Word, they're likely to mess up FM docs, too, even after some
> training. At the least, you'd have to modify the interface to disable
> adhoc formatting controls as much as possible.

 Msg sent via Internet America Webmail - www.internetamerica.com

FM to pdf-bookmarks expansion

[Shlomo Perets]

Radha,

You wrote:

>FM 7.0 with XP. Acrobat Professional6.0, Distiller6.0
>I try to save my FM Book as pdf or print to postscript and then make pdf.
>In the pdf settings dialog box, in the 'Bookmarks' tab, I select
>'None' for Bookmarks expanded through level' check box. But still it
>expands the bookmarks in the pdf to the last level. It is very
>strenuous to manually collapse hunderds of bookmarks. What do I do?
>(In my previous PC it was working well but in my current one it is not)

FrameMaker's control of bookmark collapse/expand state is not always 
consistent.

Other than using add-ons, you can quickly set the bookmark collapse/expand 
state in Acrobat by Ctrl-clicking the [-] icon to the left of a bookmark 
will collapse *all* subordinate bookmarks (and likewise, Ctrl-cliking the 
[+] icon will expand all subordinate bookmarks). Use Save or Save As to 
store the bookmark collapse/expand state in the PDF.


Shlomo Perets
MicroType, FrameMaker/Acrobat training & consulting

"24 easy ways to improve your PDFs with FrameMaker-to-Acrobat 
TimeSavers/Assistants",
http://www.microtype.com/ImprovePDF.html

Converting fm files to xml

[Lynne A. Price]

Daniel,

1) Is another attribute written instead of the href attribute?

2) Are you sure your r/w rules are being read? It could be a search path 
issue. Does your application definition (probably in structapps.fm) specify 
a complete pathname for the rules file. (One simple way to verify that the 
correct file is being read is to add a new rule with a syntax error and 
confirm that FM reports the syntax error.)

 --Lynne

At 05:54 AM 6/10/2008, Daniel Osborn wrote:
>Dear Framers, I am trying to save lots of .fm files as .xml in FM 7.2. 
>I've written an application and when I save a single .fm file as .xml it 
>works fine. When I use the Utility: File > Utilities > Convert structured 
>documents, something goes wrong. The conversion runs fine but the 'href' 
>attribute for the images is not included in the output files. My rules 
>file includes the line:attribute "href" is fm property file; And, 
>as I say, when I save an individual file as xml it's fine, so it looks 
>like a bug. Does anyone have any ideas how to fix or workaround this? 
>Thanks, Daniel Daniel Osborn? |? Usability Engineer - Technical Writer? | 
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Blank Pages in Online Help

[Melissa Di Natale]

Hi Guys,



Right now in my Frame documents I have no blank pages (I have it set so
that any empty pages are deleted). But when I convert in Webworks for
online help I'm getting a blank page at the end of every chapter. Does
anybody know how to get rid of this? I'm wondering if it's because I
have Frame set to be double sided for when it's printed.



Thanks,

Melissa

Blank Pages in Online Help

[Combs, Richard]

Melissa Di Natale

> Right now in my Frame documents I have no blank pages (I have it set
so
> that any empty pages are deleted). But when I convert in Webworks for
> online help I'm getting a blank page at the end of every chapter. Does
> anybody know how to get rid of this? I'm wondering if it's because I
> have Frame set to be double sided for when it's printed.

Since WebWorks doesn't do anything to your FM files (except read them),
I assume these blank pages are in the MIF files that WebWorks creates in
the project's Temp folder. So why do you care about their pagination? 

If those "blank" pages are really empty, they have zero effect on the
help output and are completely irrelevant. You shouldn't even be aware
of them, since you shouldn't be doing anything manually with those MIF
files. 

Maybe I'm not understanding the issue. :-}

Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Framemaker - fraction symbols

[Teasdale, Steven (GE EntSol, Digital Energy)]

Hi Bill

The 2/3 fraction is not part of the standard 8-bit ASCII character set (first 
256 characters). However, it is available as Unicode character U+2154 in many 
Unicode-enabled fonts, such as the default Arial font that comes with Windows. 
I'm not sure how to enter it directly in FM8, but you can copy it from the 
character map.

Steven Teasdale
GE Multilin


-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Stevens
Sent: June 11, 2008 9:35 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Framemaker - fraction symbols

Hi Framers,



I am trying to find a two-thirds fraction character/symbol for FrameMaker 8.
At the moment I am typing 2/3 but it looks yuk! I have nice fractions for ?
(Alt+0188) and ? (Alt+0189) but 2/3 escapes me. Can anyone help?



Thanks

Bill 

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disagreement on overrides

[Milan Davidovic]

The way I've been "brought up" as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
set in question.

Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
and how did you go about resolving it?

Thanks.

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com

disagreement on overrides

[Art Campbell]

Well, I'm with you and your approach simply because it makes it much
easier to work on and to ensure consistency, because only the person
who created them knows what the override is supposed to do.

There's also the possibility that the override will be interpreted
somewhat differently than its intention in PDF, but I think it only
makes a BIG difference when you start supporting more output formats
or some of the overrides don't work as intended.

Output and conversion filters, in general, don't like overrides, so
something is going to fall out of the document and not get translated.
And then there's going to be some fast shuffling, on deadline, to make
it all work again. And that can be avoided if you impose some controls
via para and character tags early on.

Getting a writer who doesn't see the value in this, or who doesn't
want to comply, is the problem, and that's a human relations problem.
If you're peers, and management isn't setting a course that makes
fewer overrides a logical way to do things If you have some
authority to set things up that makes it slightly easier and
different.

Art

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Milan Davidovic  
wrote:
> The way I've been "brought up" as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
> wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
> liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
> unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
> onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
> set in question.
>
> Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
> and how did you go about resolving it?
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Milan Davidovic
> http://altmilan.blogspot.com

-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at gmail.com
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

disagreement on overrides

[Combs, Richard]

Milan Davidovic wrote:

> The way I've been "brought up" as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
> wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
> liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
> unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
> onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
> set in question.
> 
> Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
> and how did you go about resolving it?

First question: Who's in charge? 

There are many good reasons for adhering to a template. But the first
thing to determine is whether you (a) are empowered to _tell_ the other
writer not to deviate from the template, (b) must _persuade_ the other
writer, or (c) must appeal this issue to a third person. 

Second question: Who owns the template? 

The template owner should look at the kinds of overrides the other
writer is applying and determine if some of them result from an outage
in the template or from a failure of the writer to understand how to use
it. 

Third question: How important is this to you and to the company? 

If you're in charge, of course, it doesn't have to be all that
important. You say, "This is how I want you to do things," and that's
that. A preference is all you need. If it's someone else, how hard are
you willing to work to win the decision-maker over to your way of doing
things?

Also, you have to consider where the company is in its life cycle, and
how long these docs are likely to be around (because overrides are less
important in short-lived, throwaway docs, and much more of a pain in
docs that will see lots of revisions and maintenance). You may decide
it's not worth fighting over, or you may decide that now's the time to
draw the line in the sand.

Personally, I wouldn't be happy for long in a situation such as you
describe. If my carefully crafted templates were routinely disregarded
and overridden, and there was nothing I could do about it, I'd have to
make some kind of change -- different project, co-worker, or company. 

But that's me. YMMV.

Richard


Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

disagreement on overrides

[Peter Gold]

The only good argument I've seen for overrides as a normal way of
working is to control breaks across frames, columns, and pages, for a
particular round of publication. They can be removed in one operation
by importing a document's formats to itself, and choosing to remove
overrides. Before saving the result, verify by comparing the
before-and-after versions.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
__
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 5:17 PM, Combs, Richard
 wrote:
> Milan Davidovic wrote:
>
>> The way I've been "brought up" as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
>> wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
>> liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
>> unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
>> onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
>> set in question.
>>
>> Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
>> and how did you go about resolving it?
>
> First question: Who's in charge?
>
> There are many good reasons for adhering to a template. But the first
> thing to determine is whether you (a) are empowered to _tell_ the other
> writer not to deviate from the template, (b) must _persuade_ the other
> writer, or (c) must appeal this issue to a third person.
>
> Second question: Who owns the template?
>
> The template owner should look at the kinds of overrides the other
> writer is applying and determine if some of them result from an outage
> in the template or from a failure of the writer to understand how to use
> it.
>
> Third question: How important is this to you and to the company?
>
> If you're in charge, of course, it doesn't have to be all that
> important. You say, "This is how I want you to do things," and that's
> that. A preference is all you need. If it's someone else, how hard are
> you willing to work to win the decision-maker over to your way of doing
> things?
>
> Also, you have to consider where the company is in its life cycle, and
> how long these docs are likely to be around (because overrides are less
> important in short-lived, throwaway docs, and much more of a pain in
> docs that will see lots of revisions and maintenance). You may decide
> it's not worth fighting over, or you may decide that now's the time to
> draw the line in the sand.
>
> Personally, I wouldn't be happy for long in a situation such as you
> describe. If my carefully crafted templates were routinely disregarded
> and overridden, and there was nothing I could do about it, I'd have to
> make some kind of change -- different project, co-worker, or company.
>
> But that's me. YMMV.
>
> Richard
>
>
> Richard G. Combs

disagreement on overrides

[Susan Modlin]

I think the key to the question is why the other writer is using overrides. We 
all know it's pretty much an article of faith that thou shalt not use overrides 
for anything other than controlling page breaks, as Peter notes. 

So why is the other writer overriding? I can think of three reasons for the 
malefactor's behavior:

1. Ignorance. The writer hasn't seen the ramifications of overrides run 
amok during an upgrade or comes from the world of word where this is normal 
behavior.

2. Something's missing from the template. As a long-time template 
designer, I know how impossible it is to get everything exactly right the first 
time. Perhaps this writer is creating a different type of information that 
doesn't lend itself to the existing formats.
3. Sheer perversity. In which case, all the advise about persuasion and 
big sticks comes in handySusan


- Original Message 
From: Peter Gold 
To: "Combs, Richard" 
Cc: Framer's List 
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:42:14 PM
Subject: Re: disagreement on overrides

The only good argument I've seen for overrides as a normal way of
working is to control breaks across frames, columns, and pages, for a
particular round of publication. They can be removed in one operation
by importing a document's formats to itself, and choosing to remove
overrides. Before saving the result, verify by comparing the
before-and-after versions.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
__
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

disagreement on overrides

[syed.hos...@aeris.net]

> The way I've been "brought up" as a Frame user was to avoid overrides
> wherever possible. I'm now working with a writer who is much more
> liberal about overrides than I am. We currently work only on
> unstructured Frame documents; output is PDF (to print from or for use
> onscreen). Right now, we're the only two writers working on the doc
> set in question.
> 
> Have any of you been on either side of such a difference in approach,
> and how did you go about resolving it?

I assume by "overrides", you mean a person applies font formats and
other paragraph formats, etc., to text and paragraphs from the menu bar
or key strokes, and does not use the templates that were developed for a
good reason!

Our approach is to fire anybody who does this. And, I am only just
kidding a little bit! We have had technical writing contractors, who we
let go because they would not follow our rules in this regard.

Seriously, the problem with overrides should be obvious. Anytime, a
given template or paragraph design or character design is changed, then
the reapplication of that new design can cause havoc with the overrides.
Particularly when there are a gazillion of them - it is usually
impossible to find each one and figure out why they were done, etc.

So, we disallow text and paragraph overrides - people who do them, tend
to learn the hard way, when their nice, pretty, document, gets messed up
when somebody else has to do some edits to the documents.

Now, in Word or Powerpoint, we have too many people doing their own
edits in this manner and the result is that we periodically have to dump
a new template onto everybody and rap knuckles accordingly when we do
this. Does not always work.

Z

MS Word vs. Frame

[Angela Akridge]

I convinced them to use Frame. I kinda said, "no way in hell" am I gonna
recommend Word. My basis was exactly what this group pointed out: they
aren't using the Word capabilities that are required (e.g. styles, etc), so
if I'm gonna train the pm, I might as well train him on Frame. I also scared
him by saying that writers just don't like Word, so recruiting would be
difficult. You asked about the project manager. The pm is the Product
Management VP, Engineering VP, Recruiter, and "tech writer".  Poor guy.

I'll probably use Frame/WebWorks solution. I like ePublisher Pro because it
works well with Frame, but I'd go with MadCap Flare (without Frame), if I
can convince the company that they don't need manuals, but that's a more
difficult argument to make. :)

Angela

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Diane Gaskill 
wrote:

> Hi Ang,
>
> You're kidding me, right?  You are actually considering Word instead of FM?
>
> We use both here, but are working away from Word, manual by manual.  The
> Word templates were created from my FM templates.  I converted FM to Word
> with Mif2Go.  Yay Jeremy!
>
> Just my 2c worth, but if there are no styles in their Word docs, I don't
> think they really know how to use Word.  And I expect that they know much
> about manuals either. I srongly encourage you to take the lead here and get
> them on the right path.  They will luv ya in the long run.
>
> Sure, Word sounds like the easy way at the moment, but trust me, not in the
> long run. And I think the company will happier with FM too.  BTW, if you
> need something to convince them, I have lots of Word vs FM comparison docs
> that I've either written or collected over the last 10 years or so.  Let me
> know if you need them.
>
> Why does the project manager need to learn FM?  To comment on your docs?
> No, Word is not the way.  Buy FM8 and Acrobat 8 Pro.  Get the free Acrobat
> 8
> reader for them.  With Acrobat8 Pro, you can create PDFs that they can
> commment in, highlight, edit, and more, just like they can with Word.  And
> you can keep right on using FM.  BTW, if you are worried about converting
> the Word docs to FM, don't.  FM8 has a great new filter that really does
> convert Word docs into FM, tables and graphics and everything.  I use it
> all
> the time.  No, not the RTF filter.  It's called Microsoft Word 7.  Sure
> beats those old Mastersoft filters that Frame Technology bought to make the
> sale of FM to Adobe.
>
> If I understand your message, you will be creating both docs and online
> help.  If that is the case, don't by FM and don't buy Acrobat.  Yes, I am
> serious.  Don't buy them.
>
> Huh?  What?  Don't buy FM and Acrobat?
>
> No, don't buy them.  That is, not separately.
>
> Instead, buy the new Adobe Techinical Communications Suite. It includes a
> linked version of FM8 and Robo7, plus Acrobat NINE Pro extended (yep, 9),
> and a really neat tool called Captivate.  We just bought it for several of
> us and let me tell you it is fan-tastic.  We are saving lots of time
> and
> work.  You can author in FM and convert the manual to Robo online HTML
> help.
> TOC, index, glossary, everything.  It depends on how you set it up.  You
> use
> conditional text in FM to set up what goes in the help an what doesn't.
>  You
> set up the tag mapping from FM to Robo (it's easy, nothing like WWP was),
> do
> a couple more easy setup things, hit the convert button, and presto, online
> help. You can also author in Robo and import back to FM if you want, but
> I'd
> recommend setting it up as author in FM, print docs from FM, import by
> reference into Robo.
>
> Captivate is amazing.  3D interactive graphics in a PDF file.  Live
> installation demos with almost no instructions to write.  No special
> viewers, just Acrobat Reader 7 or 8.  Who'd have ever thought you could do
> this?  You run a GUI and record your actions.  Users can play it back as a
> demo or walk themselves through it, with popup instructions guiding them
> along if you want.  I'll send you a demo file I created offline 'cause the
> list strips attachments.  It is really cool.
>
> Microsoft, eat your heart out. :-)
>
> Gee, do I sound like I'm selling it or something?  Well, that wasn't my
> intent, but I gotta tellya, these toys are really fun to play with, and the
> big bosses are already taking notice of what we are doing.
>
> BTW, thank you Matt Sullivan, wheever you are.  That was a great TCS class.
> We'll be hitting you with questions pretty soon.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Diane Gaskill
> Hitachi Data Systems
> Santa Clara, CA
>
> ===
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com
> [mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com]On Behalf Of Angela Akridge
> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 2:07 PM
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: MS Word vs. Frame
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Question: What features am I giving up by going with MS Word? Text insets?
> Conditional text?
>
> I'm a contractor for a very