Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 00:23 +0100, Bernt Hansson wrote: Julien Cigar said the following on 2008-12-11 14:40: - Altough ports are fantastic, building things like OpenOffice or ... is just inhuman, especially when you cannot use -j for building ports (but it's being resolved I think). Of course you can use -j to build ports. Just cd to/your/port make -j8 install (clean) With portupgrade you use -m -j8 I'm not sure about this, as there is just a project in titled Allowing for parallel builds in the FreeBSD Ports on http://www.freebsd.org/projects/summerofcode-2008.html ... ? Every time I tried to build a port with -j it failed .. -- Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform http://www.biodiversity.be Université Libre de Bruxelles (ULB) Campus de la Plaine CP 257 Bâtiment NO, Bureau 4 N4 115C (Niveau 4) Boulevard du Triomphe, entrée ULB 2 B-1050 Bruxelles Mail: jci...@ulb.ac.be @biobel: http://biobel.biodiversity.be/person/show/471 Tel : 02 650 57 52 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: updating php5-pcre
On Friday 12 December 2008, David Newman wrote: 7.0-RELEASE-p6 / i386 Using portmaster to update the php5-pcre port returns this error: Cannot find config.m4. Make sure that you run '/usr/local/bin/phpize' in the top level source directory of the module I'm not a php guru. Where is the top-level source directory for this module? Or is there some other remedy for this error? See /usr/ports/UPDATING: 20081207: AFFECTS: users of lang/php5 AUTHOR: p...@freebsd.org As of php 5.2.7, pcre extension is distributed with the core php5 package, and not as a standalone module anymore. -- Mike Clarke ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Valentin Bud wrote: Hello list, I don't know if the Subject says what i really want to achieve but i do hope that i will make myself understood. I work for a school and i want to install in 2 labs on very low performance computers (1 Ghz CPU, 126 Mb RAM) some linux distro (zen walk). I *need* to install linux because there are some programs that need to run on those stations and guess what, they only work on linux. There are different students that use those computers and they change frequently. So i thought to make a server, using FreeBSD (of course), that has a database of users so the linux machines don't have local users but they query the DB to get login credentials and such. I don't really know what to look for. So any suggestion and hints to how can i achieve this are welcomed. thank you and a great day, v What you are looking for is called NIS: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-nis.html However note it is not (unfortunately) interoperable between FreeBSD and Linux, although there is a setting (UNSECURE=true in /var/yp/Makefile of the NIS server) that works around this, albeit it lowers security. There are other solutions too (LDAP?) but NIS would be the easiest to setup. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
USB Flash Drives
FreeBSD localhost 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE #0: Fri Jan 12 11:05:30 UTC 2007 r...@dessler.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SMP i386 localhost# I just discovered flash drives. They are very easy to use on Windows. I don't know if FreeBSD supports these drives. But if FreeBSD does, I need instructions on how-to-use. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help. Bruce ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
i don't disagree with you that opensource stuff is much better even if they don't have certain things. however, is this really a freebsd issue there are excellent opensource software and there are crappy opensource bloatware. just being opensource doesn't mean anything ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated graphics is not an improvement, and should therefore not be considered a worthy goal? full support of open hardware standards is an requirement. support for closed hardware standards isn't important. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Ivan Voras wrote: Manolis Kiagias wrote: don't have local users but they query the DB to get login credentials and such. I don't really know what to look for. So any suggestion and hints to how can i achieve this are welcomed. thank you and a great day, v What you are looking for is called NIS: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-nis.html However note it is not (unfortunately) interoperable between FreeBSD and Linux, although there is a setting (UNSECURE=true in /var/yp/Makefile of the NIS server) that works around this, albeit it lowers security. There are other solutions too (LDAP?) but NIS would be the easiest to setup. I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first time). One alternative to those is samba - there is pam_smb in the ports, but there's no nss_smb but that's somewhat weird to use in a unix-like environment :) I just found about http://pam-mysql.sourceforge.net/ In ports as security/pam-mysql and the NSS in net/libnss-mysql . I didn't try it. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Manolis Kiagias wrote: don't have local users but they query the DB to get login credentials and such. I don't really know what to look for. So any suggestion and hints to how can i achieve this are welcomed. thank you and a great day, v What you are looking for is called NIS: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/network-nis.html However note it is not (unfortunately) interoperable between FreeBSD and Linux, although there is a setting (UNSECURE=true in /var/yp/Makefile of the NIS server) that works around this, albeit it lowers security. There are other solutions too (LDAP?) but NIS would be the easiest to setup. I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first time). One alternative to those is samba - there is pam_smb in the ports, but there's no nss_smb but that's somewhat weird to use in a unix-like environment :) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: USB Flash Drives
fixer wrote: FreeBSD localhost 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE #0: Fri Jan 12 11:05:30 UTC 2007 r...@dessler.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SMP i386 localhost# I just discovered flash drives. They are very easy to use on Windows. I don't know if FreeBSD supports these drives. But if FreeBSD does, I need instructions on how-to-use. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help. Bruce Have a look at these: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/usb-disks.html Generally speaking, using an ms-dos (fat/fat32) formatted flash drive is as simple as this: - plug - get device name (probably da0) with dmesg |tail - mount as root in /mnt: mount -t msdofs /dev/da0s1 /mnt - Copy / move files etc - umount /mnt - unplug If you read the handbook section, you will also be able to setup your system for user mounting, so you won't have to mount as root. Another useful piece of info is this: http://www.freebsd.org/gnome/docs/halfaq.html With these instructions you can configure automounting in GUIs like Gnome (and XFCE and possibly others, as long as HAL is used) Bear in mind that no matter how you mounted the device, you will have to unmount it before physically removing it, otherwise you are in for a nasty surprise... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
iwi config help
I'm trying to configure a wireless adapter on an IBM Thinkpad R51, and need some help. I followed the iwi man page, but the card is not recognized. I have the following in /boot/loader.conf: cat /boot/loader.conf if_iwi_load=YES wlan_load=YES firmware_load=YES loader_logo=beastie snd_ich_load=YES kldstat shows: Id Refs AddressSize Name 1 18 0xc040 7c7990 kernel 21 0xc0bc8000 e6e4 if_iwi.ko 32 0xc0bd7000 2f9c firmware.ko 41 0xc0bda000 6994 snd_ich.ko 52 0xc0be1000 239e8sound.ko 61 0xc0c05000 5c838acpi.ko 71 0xc5547000 19000linux.ko 81 0xc5706000 1e000radeon.ko 91 0xc5724000 e000 drm.ko pkg_info | grep iwi iwi-firmware-kmod-3.0_3 Intel PRO/Wireless 2200 Firmware Kernel Module dmesg |grep iwi Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/if_iwi.ko at 0xc0c63188. dmesg |grep firmware Preloaded elf module /boot/kernel/firmware.ko at 0xc0c63234. pciconf -lv a...@pci0:0:0: class=0x06 card=0x05291014 chip=0x33408086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82855PM Processor to I/O Controller' class = bridge subclass = HOST-PCI pc...@pci0:1:0: class=0x060400 card=0x chip=0x33418086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82855PM Processor to AGP Controller' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI uh...@pci0:29:0: class=0x0c0300 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c28086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB uh...@pci0:29:1: class=0x0c0300 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c48086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB uh...@pci0:29:2: class=0x0c0300 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c78086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB eh...@pci0:29:7: class=0x0c0320 card=0x052e1014 chip=0x24cd8086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB 2.0 EHCI Controller' class = serial bus subclass = USB pc...@pci0:30:0: class=0x060400 card=0x chip=0x24488086 rev=0x81 hdr=0x01 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801BAM/CAM/DBM (ICH2-M/3-M/4-M) Hub Interface to PCI Bridge' class = bridge subclass = PCI-PCI is...@pci0:31:0: class=0x060100 card=0x chip=0x24cc8086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DBM (ICH4-M) LPC Interface Bridge' class = bridge subclass = PCI-ISA atap...@pci0:31:1: class=0x01018a card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24ca8086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DBM (ICH4-M) UltraATA/100 EIDE Controller' class = mass storage subclass = ATA no...@pci0:31:3: class=0x0c0500 card=0x052d1014 chip=0x24c38086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) SMBus Controller' class = serial bus subclass = SMBus p...@pci0:31:5: class=0x040100 card=0x05541014 chip=0x24c58086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Audio Controller' class = multimedia subclass = audio no...@pci0:31:6: class=0x070300 card=0x05591014 chip=0x24c68086 rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) AC'97 Modem Controller' class = simple comms subclass = generic modem d...@pci1:0:0: class=0x03 card=0x05311014 chip=0x4c661002 rev=0x02 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'ATI Technologies Inc' device = 'ATI MOBILITY RADEON 9000 (Microsoft Corporation - Radeon Mobility M9' class = display subclass = VGA c...@pci2:0:0: class=0x060700 card=0x05521014 chip=0xac46104c rev=0x01 hdr=0x02 vendor = 'Texas Instruments (TI)' device = 'PCI4520 PC Card CardBus Controller' class = bridge subclass = PCI-CardBus fwoh...@pci2:0:2: class=0x0c0010 card=0x05531014 chip=0x802a104c rev=0x01 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Texas Instruments (TI)' class = serial bus subclass = FireWire e...@pci2:1:0: class=0x02 card=0x05491014 chip=0x101e8086 rev=0x03 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Intel Corporation' device = '82540EP Gigabit Ethernet Controller (Mobile)' class = network subclass = ethernet ifconfig does not show the interface Any help to get this configured would be appreciated. TIA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Hello list, Thank you everyone for your input. I now know what to look for. Gave it a read at NIS in the handbook but as you guys said it's FBSD only so because of the interoperability i think i will go with LDAP. I'll just have to check if (i suppose it does) that particular linux distro is ok with using LDAP. thanks once again and a great day, v On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Ivan Voras ivo...@freebsd.org wrote: 2008/12/12 Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl: I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. Besides, it scales well and has a large number of supporting utilities. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
(no subject)
Hi all dear I have laptop acer 4220 and I need to install FreeBSD. This laptop have sata HDD how can install FreeBSD in this system. Mohammad Abedini Site Acquisition Supervisor ( AHV ) Tel : 06113387881 06113921249 Mobile :09179397499 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 13:26 +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: 2008/12/12 Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl: I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. Besides, it scales well and has a large number of supporting utilities. Off-topic, but do you know any good tool other than gq/phpldapadmin to manage/browse/... an LDAP server ? At the moment I've my own set of LDIF files that I use with ldap[add|delete|modify], but it's not very flexible .. A ncurses tool would be perfect. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform http://www.biodiversity.be Université Libre de Bruxelles (ULB) Campus de la Plaine CP 257 Bâtiment NO, Bureau 4 N4 115C (Niveau 4) Boulevard du Triomphe, entrée ULB 2 B-1050 Bruxelles Mail: jci...@ulb.ac.be @biobel: http://biobel.biodiversity.be/person/show/471 Tel : 02 650 57 52 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
2008/12/12 Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl: I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. Besides, it scales well and has a large number of supporting utilities. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: (no subject)
Hello Mr. Abedini and all the others by that matter, I don't want to be rude but do you remember the time when we used to send letters. Any of those letter had a Subject. E-mail communications are based on those letters (the concept) and they do have a Subject line on which you should fill a small amount of information about what you intend to get help with. my 7 cents and a great day, v On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:17 PM, abedini abedini.erics...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all dear I have laptop acer 4220 and I need to install FreeBSD. This laptop have sata HDD how can install FreeBSD in this system. Mohammad Abedini Site Acquisition Supervisor ( AHV ) Tel : 06113387881 06113921249 Mobile :09179397499 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Julien Cigar jci...@ulb.ac.be writes: Off-topic, but do you know any good tool other than gq/phpldapadmin to manage/browse/... an LDAP server ? At the moment I've my own set of LDIF files that I use with ldap[add|delete|modify], but it's not very flexible .. A ncurses tool would be perfect. You may try www/web2ldap. It's not curses though. WBR -- Boris Samorodov (bsam) Research Engineer, http://www.ipt.ru Telephone Internet SP FreeBSD committer, http://www.FreeBSD.org The Power To Serve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
look at gosa its a fairly well rounded ldap administration suite, probably more then you might need, but it covers alot of the services https://oss.gonicus.de/labs/gosa/ or potentially even Zivios might fit your needs http://www.zivios.org/ On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 7:54 PM, Julien Cigar jci...@ulb.ac.be wrote: On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 13:26 +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: 2008/12/12 Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl: I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. Besides, it scales well and has a large number of supporting utilities. Off-topic, but do you know any good tool other than gq/phpldapadmin to manage/browse/... an LDAP server ? At the moment I've my own set of LDIF files that I use with ldap[add|delete|modify], but it's not very flexible .. A ncurses tool would be perfect. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform http://www.biodiversity.be Université Libre de Bruxelles (ULB) Campus de la Plaine CP 257 Bâtiment NO, Bureau 4 N4 115C (Niveau 4) Boulevard du Triomphe, entrée ULB 2 B-1050 Bruxelles Mail: jci...@ulb.ac.be @biobel: http://biobel.biodiversity.be/person/show/471 Tel : 02 650 57 52 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
vinum raid degraded
Hi, I'm running a gvinum raid array with 4x80G drives. This raid is running for 4 Years now. Today i found out that the status in degraded. All drives are up but on subdisk is stale. How can get the raid out of degraded mode. I have attached the output of gvinum l Greeting Estartu -- - Gerhard Schmidt | E-Mail: schm...@ze.tum.de TU-München| WWW Online Services | Tel: 089/289-25270| Fax: 089/289-25257| PGP-Publickey auf Anfrage 4 drives: D vinumdrive3 State: up /dev/ad7A: 0/78533 MB (0%) D vinumdrive2 State: up /dev/ad6A: 0/78533 MB (0%) D vinumdrive1 State: up /dev/ad5s1 A: 0/78533 MB (0%) D vinumdrive0 State: up /dev/ad4A: 0/78533 MB (0%) 1 volume: V daten State: up Plexes: 1 Size:230 GB 1 plex: P daten.p0 R5 State: degraded Subdisks: 4 Size:230 GB 4 subdisks: S daten.p0.s3 State: up D: vinumdrive3 Size: 76 GB S daten.p0.s2 State: up D: vinumdrive2 Size: 76 GB S daten.p0.s1 State: staleD: vinumdrive1 Size: 76 GB S daten.p0.s0 State: up D: vinumdrive0 Size: 76 GB ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. so not right but interoperable. if i do have only unix systems in LAN, NIS is much better easier and faster. for windows-only LAN with unix server, simply using samba is OK. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: installation on Acer 4220
In response to abedini abedini.erics...@gmail.com: Hi all dear I have laptop acer 4220 and I need to install FreeBSD. This laptop have sata HDD how can install FreeBSD in this system. Are you having difficulty? What have you tried. Quite honestly, I don't understand the question. -- Bill Moran http://www.potentialtech.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. so not right but interoperable. if i do have only unix systems in LAN, NIS is much better easier and faster. If you only have UNIX systems in LAN. But in my case i have Linux + FreeBSD (server). From the handbook NIS only works between FBSDs. Am i missing something? thank you, v for windows-only LAN with unix server, simply using samba is OK. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Double Posts
Anyone have any clue what I would be getting two of every message posted to the group? It started yesterday and nothing has changed on my end (that I am aware of) I'm using outlook 2008, picking up from gmail. Thanks Gary ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 14:12 +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. so not right but interoperable. if i do have only unix systems in LAN, NIS is much better easier and faster. for windows-only LAN with unix server, simply using samba is OK. Here all the machines use OpenLDAP with pam_ldap and nss_ldap with /home mounted on the file server, so that an user can login on every machine and find back his /home. We've also a domain controller which uses Samba and the same LDAP database. So you create the account once and the users can automatically login on the unix and windows machines. It works pretty well. I don't know NIS so much, but I think that LDAP has two advantages : the protocol, and it's use of (extensible) schemes. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Julien Cigar Belgian Biodiversity Platform http://www.biodiversity.be Université Libre de Bruxelles (ULB) Campus de la Plaine CP 257 Bâtiment NO, Bureau 4 N4 115C (Niveau 4) Boulevard du Triomphe, entrée ULB 2 B-1050 Bruxelles Mail: jci...@ulb.ac.be @biobel: http://biobel.biodiversity.be/person/show/471 Tel : 02 650 57 52 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Valentin Bud wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. so not right but interoperable. if i do have only unix systems in LAN, NIS is much better easier and faster. If you only have UNIX systems in LAN. But in my case i have Linux + FreeBSD (server). From the handbook NIS only works between FBSDs. Am i missing something? You are correct. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: (no subject)
2008/12/12 abedini abedini.erics...@gmail.com: Hi all dear I have laptop acer 4220 and I need to install FreeBSD. This laptop have sata HDD how can install FreeBSD in this system. Hello. If you need a desktop environment you can try PC-BSD (http://www.pcbsd.org/), it's easy and fast to set-up. I believe it will run good at your hardware. I had it on my old 1,6Ghz asus laptop and it was ok. And if you need a console interface - just get latest release of FreeBSD (http://www.freebsd.org/where.html). You can install from CD images, FTP or whatever suits you better. -- Best regards, Jeff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Julien Cigar wrote: On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 13:26 +0100, Ivan Voras wrote: 2008/12/12 Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl: I agree - NIS is easiest to setup, but LDAP is the right solution in this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. Besides, it scales well and has a large number of supporting utilities. Off-topic, but do you know any good tool other than gq/phpldapadmin to manage/browse/... an LDAP server ? At the moment I've my own set of LDIF files that I use with ldap[add|delete|modify], but it's not very flexible .. A ncurses tool would be perfect. I'm using http://www.jxplorer.org/ with great success and productivity. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: dialog run away processes
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 02:35:43PM -0800, Noah wrote: Hi there, sometimes I find there one or two processes with the command name of 'dialog' tacking the cpu on my freebsd machines. any clues what creates this situation and how I can circumvent the problem? It appears to happen around the time I run portmanager to update all the system ports. dialog is interactive. Sometimes it's possible to start dialog (or other interactive process) and disconnect the terminal input. Then (depending on how errors are handled), it tries repeatedly to read input. (that's addressed in the version of dialog which I maintain, but FreeBSD has, iirc, a variant from long ago which isn't strictly compatible). http://invisible-island.net/dialog/ -- Thomas E. Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net pgpiwAXoYEr69.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: NEED HELP FOR SUITABLE VERSION
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Sahil Tandon sa...@tandon.net wrote: hitech resources wrote: *HI, i have PowerEdge(TM) 840, Quad Core Xeon Pro X3220 Processor, so what is the suitable version of FreeBSD i could use. I actually want to use it for server purposes. TQ 7 And amd64 also :) -- With best regards, Chinh Nguyen *** FreeBSD - The Power to Serve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: ftpd not chroot'ing
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:58 AM, Gunther Mayer gunther.ma...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi guys, I'm trying to set up a really simple, single account write only ftp service. So I put ftpd_enable=YES ftpd_flags=-o -d in my rc.conf and started the ftp server. Now I have a special password enabled user account called camera (none of the other accounts have passwords, all logins are either remote ssh with keys or local terminal access with root) with login shell /bin/sh. So far so good. All I want to do now is now use the chroot facility of ftpd so that when user camera logs in ftpd will chroot the session to its home directory (/home/camera). man ftpd and man ftpchroot tells me to put something like camera yes in /etc/ftpchroot. But once I do that I always get: $ ftp myserver.mydomain.com Connected to myserver.mydomain.com 220 myserver FTP server (Version 6.00LS) ready. Name (mypc:test): camera 331 Password required for camera. Password: 550 Can't change root. Login failed. ftp quit 221 Goodbye. If I disable that line in /etc/ftpchroot by commenting it out I can log in perfectly fine though. Even debug log messages (-d) don't tell me anything more than can't change root :-( The alternative as stated by man ftpd - putting a :ftp-chroot=true: in /etc/login.conf and doing a cap_mkdb /etc/login.conf seems to make no difference as no chroot is in effect (I can still cd .. and get to /home). What am I doing wrong? Gunther ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Try to put just username there, no need to put yes. -- With best regards, Chinh Nguyen *** FreeBSD - The Power to Serve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Ivan Voras ivo...@freebsd.org wrote: Valentin Bud wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. so not right but interoperable. if i do have only unix systems in LAN, NIS is much better easier and faster. If you only have UNIX systems in LAN. But in my case i have Linux + FreeBSD (server). From the handbook NIS only works between FBSDs. Am i missing something? You are correct. Hmm, I have NIS server on an old Solaris 8 and all clients are Linux (I can't use FBSD at work due so far). So it sounds strange if NIS works only between FBSDs, something not standard in the implementation? Anyway, I also vote for the LDAP. Later on when you need to introduce new services, LDAP will integrate better. NIS is very specific for *nix world. -- With best regards, Chinh Nguyen *** FreeBSD - The Power to Serve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Double Posts
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Gary Hartl gha...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone have any clue what I would be getting two of every message posted to the group? It started yesterday and nothing has changed on my end (that I am aware of) I'm using outlook 2008, picking up from gmail. Perhaps it's Outlook 2008! I am not getting double posts and I am reading via gmail web UI. BTW, where can I get Outlook 2008 for test drive? -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Okay guys. This is Kenya. You pay taxes because you feel philanthropic, unlike our MPs! -- Kenneth Marende, Speaker, 10th Parilament. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Double Posts
Odhiambo Washington wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 4:38 PM, Gary Hartl gha...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone have any clue what I would be getting two of every message posted to the group? It started yesterday and nothing has changed on my end (that I am aware of) I'm using outlook 2008, picking up from gmail. Perhaps it's Outlook 2008! I am not getting double posts and I am reading via gmail web UI. BTW, where can I get Outlook 2008 for test drive? from microsoft ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NEED HELP FOR SUITABLE VERSION
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 10:55:49AM +0800, hitech resources wrote: *HI, i have PowerEdge(TM) 840, Quad Core Xeon Pro X3220 Processor, so what is the suitable version of FreeBSD i could use. I actually want to use it for server purposes. TQ Go with the latest RELEASE. If you can wait a short time, or reinstall after experimenting a while, go with 7.1. jerry -- * *Regards* Mohd Shamsi Hafiz Hi-Technology Resources Pekan Sungai Nibong 45400 Sekinchan Selangor, Malaysia ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB Flash Drives
On Friday 12 December 2008 05:11:26 Manolis Kiagias wrote: fixer wrote: I just discovered flash drives. They are very easy to use on Windows. I don't know if FreeBSD supports these drives. But if FreeBSD does, I need instructions on how-to-use. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/usb-disks.html Generally speaking, using an ms-dos (fat/fat32) formatted flash drive is as simple as this: - plug - get device name (probably da0) with dmesg |tail - mount as root in /mnt: mount -t msdofs /dev/da0s1 /mnt the one thing that ought to be added to the mount statement: use your username -- that way, if you're using something like konqueror, you don't have rights issues. I know some use perms and open it up for group or world write -- but username helps you keep up good habits, and good habits will keep you out of trouble. It's in the man page -- but here's a reminder: mount_msdosfs -u username /dev/da1s1 /mnt/usb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: iwi config help
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:29:05AM +, AN wrote: I'm trying to configure a wireless adapter on an IBM Thinkpad R51, and need some help. I followed the iwi man page, but the card is not recognized. I have the following in /boot/loader.conf: cat /boot/loader.conf if_iwi_load=YES wlan_load=YES firmware_load=YES loader_logo=beastie snd_ich_load=YES kldstat shows: Id Refs AddressSize Name 1 18 0xc040 7c7990 kernel 21 0xc0bc8000 e6e4 if_iwi.ko 32 0xc0bd7000 2f9c firmware.ko 41 0xc0bda000 6994 snd_ich.ko 52 0xc0be1000 239e8sound.ko 61 0xc0c05000 5c838acpi.ko 71 0xc5547000 19000linux.ko 81 0xc5706000 1e000radeon.ko 91 0xc5724000 e000 drm.ko pkg_info | grep iwi iwi-firmware-kmod-3.0_3 Intel PRO/Wireless 2200 Firmware Kernel Module Which version of FreeBSD are you running? Since 7.0-RELEASE, iwi-firmware is included in the base system, but you need to set the correct kernel environment variable to accept the license: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=iwiapropos=0sektion=0manpath=FreeBSD+7.0-RELEASEformat=html -- Oliver PETER, email: oli...@peter.de.com, ICQ# 113969174 If it feels good, you're doing something wrong. -- Coach McTavish ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: updating php5-pcre
On 12/12/08 1:08 AM, Mike Clarke wrote: As of php 5.2.7, pcre extension is distributed with the core php5 package, and not as a standalone module anymore. Thanks much. So, I can safely deinstall the php5-pcre port? dn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. What? Isn't that the Linux kernel schedule? Give me a break. The OpenBSD team of volunteers makes a new release every six months, with target release dates in May and November. I can't recall a slip of even one day. I know, this isn't OpenBSD, but it proves that a regular release schedule is indeed possible. The FreeBSD project continues to grow. I get that. Perhaps some parts of the FreeBSD project are not as organized as they used to be, or perhaps those planning what goes into each release are biting off more than they can chew. So what does it take to make regular releases a goal. Maybe try doing a little less per release? I haven't even looked at the list of what's changed between 7.0 and 7.1. I miss the old FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:58:02 +0100 Bernt Hansson be...@bah.homeip.net wrote: Julien Cigar skrev: On Fri, 2008-12-12 at 00:23 +0100, Bernt Hansson wrote: Julien Cigar said the following on 2008-12-11 14:40: - Altough ports are fantastic, building things like OpenOffice or ... is just inhuman, especially when you cannot use -j for building ports (but it's being resolved I think). Of course you can use -j to build ports. Just cd to/your/port make -j8 install (clean) With portupgrade you use -m -j8 I'm not sure about this, as there is just a project in titled Allowing for parallel builds in the FreeBSD Ports on http://www.freebsd.org/projects/summerofcode-2008.html ... ? Every time I tried to build a port with -j it failed .. From todays portupgrade -aiR -m -j8 Building '/usr/ports/textproc/asciidoc' with make flags: -j8 This entire thread has really gotten OT. Maybe it is time to close it. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Remember, drive defensively! And of course, the best defense is a good offense! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Release schedules
-- From: Joe S js.li...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:20 PM To: Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Jonathan McKeown jonathan+freebsd-questi...@hst.org.za Subject: Re: Release schedules On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 4:01 AM, Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl wrote: On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 12:59:24PM +0200, Jonathan McKeown wrote: I've been biting my tongue about this because I'm not sure that I can offer any help or useful suggestions, but here goes... What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. What? Isn't that the Linux kernel schedule? Give me a break. The OpenBSD team of volunteers makes a new release every six months, with target release dates in May and November. I can't recall a slip of even one day. I know, this isn't OpenBSD, but it proves that a regular release schedule is indeed possible. also remember that 6.4 was being worked on at the same time. there's only a finite number of people to spread across both projects. finalization of 7.1 should come faster as 6.4 has been released ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Double Posts
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:38:17 -0500 Gary Hartl gha...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone have any clue what I would be getting two of every message posted to the group? It started yesterday and nothing has changed on my end (that I am aware of) I'm using outlook 2008, picking up from gmail. Thanks Gary Consider yourself lucky. I have been reading horror stories on the GMail forum regarding users losing email. In any event, if it just started and you did not change MUAs, it is almost guaranteed to be a Google (GMail) problem. By the way, are you using IMAP or POP? -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Old musicians never die, they just decompose. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 07:04:18PM -0800, prad wrote: Each time, I have very clearly stated my disagreement with his estimation of FreeBSD as being thoroughly beaten by MS Windows in that area, with that URL provided as evidence to back my claim. the problem is that is your own posting (http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=335), not that it should automatically be disqualified for that reason. also, the focus seems to specifically on eye-candy: open source systems are currently better at glitz and glamour than Microsoft and Apple systems. It's a problem that I built an argument rather than appealing to authority . . . ? How is that a problem? Eye candy was the point he kept arguing. That's the point that addressed. Where's the problem here? i don't disagree with you that opensource stuff is much better even if they don't have certain things. however, is this really a freebsd issue or a particular version of a desktop that is offered by a unix system. freebsd doesn't offer the most recent versions (and that's not necessarily a bad thing). FreeBSD offers newer versions of a lot of stuff in its stable products than many comparable Linux distribution releases. Furthermore, since I was comparing FreeBSD with MS Windows (in response to claims that it simply can't measure up to MS Windows), I don't think your weak protest that FreeBSD is somehow behind something like, say, Arch Linux, is very applicable. Each time, he has completely ignored what I said and the URL I provided. He keeps coming back to make exactly the same sort of claims he has before, utterly failing to addresses arguments against his hand-waving statements without any logical or evidenciary support. Nobody else has bothered to dispute what I've said, either. while i would not use xp, somethings do work with less effort there than say ubuntu. there are certain programs like voice recognition that there isn't an equivalent for with opensource, yet. Great. Let's work on getting voice recognition software working better with open source software so people with disabilities will not be prevented from using open source OSes as effectively as they'd like. That doesn't mean we need to abandon everything FreeBSD stands for, and doesn't even necessarily have to mean we're making the OS more desktop centric -- and doesn't really have anything to do with the points I was making, so I'm not sure why you brought that up, unless you're trying to say that since it's easier to get voice recognition software working on MS Windows we just shouldn't try for fear of becoming infected with MS Windows design philosophy somehow. despite this, i certainly try to demonstrate to people why they should use opensource rather than windoze. Good for you. This wasn't about you, though. In absence of, at *minimum*, some half-assed attempt to make a case against what I've provided, I will continue to regard his repetition of disputed, unsupported statements to be dishonest or at least wildly inaccurate. i think his arguments go beyond the eye candy realm. he is not alone, you know. i recall reading a few years ago, the creator of the enlightenment wm saying that the desktop war was long lost to windoze. i don't know if that is correct these days, but it certainly seemed so then. I was referring to a specific example. Please either address the example under discussion or concede the point about that example and explain that you'd like to discuss other matters. If I recall correctly, the E creator was talking about *market share*, which is not the same thing as functionality by any stretch of the imagination. Would you prefer I just accept his statements, which fly in the face of my own experience, even after he fails to answer supported disputations of their content, just because it's him and you say he has to be right about everything? chad, you are fantasizing now. i never said he has to be right about everything. in fact, i know for certain that he is wrong whenever he disagrees with me. :D That's called hyperbole: http://www.bartleby.com/61/63/H0356300.html i don't think you need to accept his statements. i do think it would be better if we could drop the name calling and the anger, displayed in the earlier posts. if he fails to answer supported disputations of their content, you can certainly ask him to deal with the matter at hand. How should I do so, exactly? I presented the same exact argument to him three or four times, and he ignored it every time. After three strikes, you're out, as far as I'm concerned. At that point, just repeating the same FUD is trolling -- so I asked him to stop trolling. Now, this lengthy debate with you, because you don't think he's done anything wrong, and I'm a bad person somehow for asking him to stop spreading that FUD. Even if his statement itself isn't dishonest, his unwillingness to either back away from it or offer a
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:45:20PM -0600, Tyson Boellstorff wrote: On Thursday 11 December 2008 19:58:14 Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 05:00:11PM -0800, prad wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:28:13 -0700 i don't think that's really what is happening, chad. i think there is just some disagreement as to what is considered an improvement. So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated graphics is not an improvement, and should therefore not be considered a worthy goal? Not so much considered 'unworthy' as it is a balancing of limited resources. If I was a hardware programmer, had unlimited time, beer, and cheese dip, I'd add everything just because I could. I don't think anyone said anything about taking development effort away from, for instance, the network virtualization project to put into achieving better 3D accelerated graphics -- just that it would be nice if we had better support for 3D accelerated graphics. One need not entirely write off the notion of putting more effort into one thing to assure that we don't cease putting effort into another. One of the great things about open source development is that, often, more development talent can be found for new projects from people just idling around the periphery. It would be cool if there was a way to ensure that all foo items would be supported. However, even then, high performance video would lag. It is often proprietary, and many vendors simply won't publish their specs and need a reverse engineer to get any support at all. You can't force them to do it, and in the case of an open source OS, they may not want the world+dog to see their code for any number of reasons. nVidia is a rare exception, and even they are not going to put FreeBSD support at the top of their list. What does that have to do with whether or not it's a good idea to solicit graphics and driver developers who aren't already doing something to work on it, if they're so inclined? Long story short, there's room for all types. Enjoy the diversity. Fix what you can. Avoid the problems you can. Use the appropriate tools for their best purposes. Judging by the responses of some people on this list, there *isn't* room for all types. That's my problem with this whole mess. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Georg Hackl: American beer is the first successful attempt at diluting water. pgpZdnKLZb4aN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Release schedules
Joe S writes: What on earth is going on with release scheduling? Two words: volunteer project I would propose to do away with the release schedule altogether, or make it very succinct; next release: when it's done. What? Isn't that the Linux kernel schedule? When it's ready used to be the scheduling principle. Then came 5.0 debacle: behind schedule big-time (and arguably not ready when it went out the door). I remember discussion afterwards, where there seemed to be agreement there ought to be a more-or-less regular schedule of major releases every two years (plus or minus) with minor releases every few months. Looking at www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html, that's getting stretched. The RC-1 announcement for 7.1, originally scheduled for early September, is now listed as last week ... and didn't actually happen. (Unless I missed the memo.) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 09:50:36PM -0800, prad wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:58:14 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated graphics is not an improvement, and should therefore not be considered a worthy goal? no. access to hardware probably is a worthy goal, however, you need people to write the software and it's up to the freebsd team(s) to determine if 3d graphics is or is not worthy, isn't it? I don't recall anyone saying I'm with such-and-such a FreeBSD development team, and these are the reasons we aren't going to do anything about that at this time:. All I recall is several people cropping up and saying the equivalent of If we work on that stuff, FreeBSD will just become MS Windows, and it'll suck. I disagree with that estimation -- but if someone wants to offer an actually reasonable argument, I'm all ears (or eyes, since this is a textual discussion). This is completely orthogonal to the question of whether people who express a desire for better support for desktop functionality should be excoriated publicly on this mailing list, and spanked for having the audacity to want to migrate from MS Windows to FreeBSD for use as a desktop OS. this is a pretty nice list and i haven't found much spanking going on here. The spanking I have seen largely seems to focus on this particular area, and is mostly championed by one person, though. I guess I find it even more offensive because it's an exception rather than the rule here, and I rather like the otherwise helpful spirit of this community. I agree that desktop usage should not take priority over more fundamental quality concerns in FreeBSD development. Telling people to stick it in their ear when they say it would be nice to have Flash support is not related to the ability to prioritize development goals, though. i agree that telling people to stick it in their ear is not nice, but i don't recall anyone doing so. unfortunately, if i ask for evidence regarding this, you'll probably just tell me to RTFML as you did in your other reply. It was a summary and paraphrase -- I don't recall anyone literally using the phrase stick it in your ear. Please try to follow the discussion, rather than being diverted by paraphrases, since I don't have the whole mailing list archive memorized. Desire for better desktop functionality doesn't have to equate to wanting desktop-oriented development to control the reins of development for the whole system. Why the hell do you seem to think it does? i don't know why you think that's what i think. what i said was that was a concern. i certainly do know that in other areas (computer education for instance), user convenience has destroyed technical know-how (specifically, at some schools when the graphic interface emerged in the 80s, word-processing dominated programming and the some schools lost their thinkers). microsoft's catering to user desires has produced some rather inferior software too. I think that's what you think because control the reins of development was a verbatim quote of what *you* said. I don't see greater core functionality and better driver support is just superficial user convenience. It's not like I'm suggesting FreeBSD should violate privilege separation so people don't have to worry about the difference between user accounts and administrative accounts, or that it should make booting into KDE without a password the default behavior on boot so people don't have to worry about that icky CLI and memorize passwords. I'm not even suggesting that FreeBSD should adopt the MS Windows default, automatic wireless network roaming behavior. I'm just trying to suggest that opposition to discussing whether the resources exist to address some driver issues is kind of silly (for instance). may be it doesn't have to be that way, but often there is a price to be paid for 'convenience'. There is, indeed, a price to be paid for (poorly planned) attempts to improve convenience. Luckily, that's not what I'm suggesting -- nor is it what everybody else who would like an improved GUI environment is suggesting. Hell, I think the more server-oriented development philosophy of FreeBSD is actually a big part of the reason it works so well as a desktop OS! Maintaining a more server-oriented development philosophy in *no way* precludes giving some attention to strictly desktop-related functionality, though. perhaps, but if you have a server-oriented philosophy, why would you give much attention to desktop-related functionality? More server-oriented does not mean exclusive of desktop. It's not like I said it should be strictly, exclusively server-oriented, and screw those people who use FreeBSD as a desktop system. i recall on the openbsd elist a couple of years ago people asking what wm is best. most of the answers went something like - the
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
cropping up and saying the equivalent of If we work on that stuff, FreeBSD will just become MS Windows, and it'll suck. I disagree with because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Wojciech Puchar(woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl)@2008.12.12 14:12:45 +0100: this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. so not right but interoperable. if i do have only unix systems in LAN, NIS is much better easier and faster. No, it really is right if you want to authenticate email, radius, etc off of LDAP. NIS doesn't do that. for windows-only LAN with unix server, simply using samba is OK. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
- Original Message - From: Tyson Boellstorff perl...@alltel.net To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:45 AM Subject: Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors On Thursday 11 December 2008 19:58:14 Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 05:00:11PM -0800, prad wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:28:13 -0700 i don't think that's really what is happening, chad. i think there is just some disagreement as to what is considered an improvement. So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated graphics is not an improvement, and should therefore not be considered a worthy goal? Not so much considered 'unworthy' as it is a balancing of limited resources. If I was a hardware programmer, had unlimited time, beer, and cheese dip, I'd add everything just because I could. It would be cool if there was a way to ensure that all foo items would be supported. However, even then, high performance video would lag. It is often proprietary, and many vendors simply won't publish their specs and need a reverse engineer to get any support at all. You can't force them to do it, and in the case of an open source OS, they may not want the world+dog to see their code for any number of reasons. nVidia is a rare exception, and even they are not going to put FreeBSD support at the top of their list. Unless you have a job at some video chipset maker, and are of a truly generous spirit, willing to risk your job in order to publish drivers, it really doesn't matter what priority the powers that be give to video acceleration -- we can't ask anyone to risk their job just so foo works. If the graphics devices themselves are sub-optimal, getting related systems up to a razor-sharp performance level is like putting nitro and a supercharger in your Lada. You'd have to put it in the back seat, because there's no room in the engine compartment for it. What's your problem with Lada?! :-D They make cars (especially Niva) to drive everywhere! Just my 2 euro cents... lol ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com wrote: When it's ready used to be the scheduling principle. Then came 5.0 debacle: behind schedule big-time (and arguably not ready when it went out the door). I remember discussion afterwards, where there seemed to be agreement there ought to be a more-or-less regular schedule of major releases every two years (plus or minus) with minor releases every few months. Looking at www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html, that's getting stretched. The RC-1 announcement for 7.1, originally scheduled for early September, is now listed as last week ... and didn't actually happen. (Unless I missed the memo.) The RC-1 announcement for 7.1 did come out last week (check the stable@ archives). I personally would rather wait for quality than pushed quantity. -- Glen Barber If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done. --Scott Adams ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:04:21 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: there are excellent opensource software and there are crappy opensource bloatware. just being opensource doesn't mean anything agreed, but we prefer to support opensource from a philosophical perspective even when the quality isn't quite up to scratch. for instance, we use shane hudson's scid which has become chessdb instead of the really excellent chessbase because we preferred to support shane while he was doing scid many years ago. with reference to the desktops, i really don't think the xp offering really compares to either kde or gnome - you can't even get multiple desktops there without third party stuff from what i recall. still some things are available on xp which aren't elsewhere (for various reasons), but i'd rather work around these. actually, i work around kde and gnome too (even though i think they're pretty decent), and use dwm. -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:05:20PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated graphics is not an improvement, and should therefore not be considered a worthy goal? full support of open hardware standards is an requirement. support for closed hardware standards isn't important. I disagree. I believe, rather, that support for closed hardware specs isn't *as* important -- but is still at least somewhat important. My reservation to the 3D driver thing is it is setting a very dangerous precedent if the solution involves allowing a third party commercial enterprise to dictate features FreeBSD must include before they will support it. In this case with NVidia and the amd64 3D driver let's say for sake of argument the developers decide we want the amd64 3D driver so let's go ahead and add in abc_function() and xyz_function(). Later the situation is repeated with ATI mandating that abc_function() or xyz_function() must be altered to ATI's specs to get ATI 3D acceleration. Now you have two commercial companies using FreeBSD as the mud puddle in a tug of war game. Do we really want third parties to have the ability to dictate to the devs what code goes into FreeBSD? I have doubts that this is a good path. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:11:48 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I don't recall anyone saying I'm with such-and-such a FreeBSD development team, and these are the reasons we aren't going to do anything about that at this time:. i don't either, but these development teams do exist: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/index.html and so does a mechanism for initiating projects: If you feel that a project is missing, please send the URL and a short description (3-10 lines) to w...@freebsd.org. and i guess as tyson explained there needs to be a balancing of limited resources. On the other hand, their statements *do* imply that *my* position is illegitimate in some way i don't think so. it's more along the lines of we don't need this in light of the priorities. however, i do think michael powell makes a very good point about setting a very dangerous precedent by ending up allowing third parties to have the ability to dictate to the devs what code goes into FreeBSD? this is quite possibly a legitimate concern. Some people don't know that, and are basically told to go away by some people when they bring it up. Still other people suggest alternate approaches to fixing the problem, and are also basically told to go away, when a more appropriate response would be to say I think you should talk to the people at the swfdec and gnash projects about that, in most cases. ok so here's a solution. whenever someone tells people to go away (i don't think it has been done quite that way, but i see little point in going into that here), surely others can point to those who are in the appropriate projects. that way you have the choice of pursuing the matter or seeking an alternative os. -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:45:20PM -0600, Tyson Boellstorff wrote: On Thursday 11 December 2008 19:58:14 Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 05:00:11PM -0800, prad wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:28:13 -0700 i don't think that's really what is happening, chad. i think there is just some disagreement as to what is considered an improvement. So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated graphics is not an improvement, and should therefore not be considered a worthy goal? Not so much considered 'unworthy' as it is a balancing of limited resources. If I was a hardware programmer, had unlimited time, beer, and cheese dip, I'd add everything just because I could. I don't think anyone said anything about taking development effort away from, for instance, the network virtualization project to put into achieving better 3D accelerated graphics -- just that it would be nice if we had better support for 3D accelerated graphics. One need not entirely write off the notion of putting more effort into one thing to assure that we don't cease putting effort into another. One of the great things about open source development is that, often, more development talent can be found for new projects from people just idling around the periphery. It would be cool if there was a way to ensure that all foo items would be supported. However, even then, high performance video would lag. It is often proprietary, and many vendors simply won't publish their specs and need a reverse engineer to get any support at all. You can't force them to do it, and in the case of an open source OS, they may not want the world+dog to see their code for any number of reasons. nVidia is a rare exception, and even they are not going to put FreeBSD support at the top of their list. What does that have to do with whether or not it's a good idea to solicit graphics and driver developers who aren't already doing something to work on it, if they're so inclined? Long story short, there's room for all types. Enjoy the diversity. Fix what you can. Avoid the problems you can. Use the appropriate tools for their best purposes. Judging by the responses of some people on this list, there *isn't* room for all types. That's my problem with this whole mess. why don't we all just say it. freebsd sucks because it isn't cp/m. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Robert Huff roberth...@rcn.com wrote: When it's ready used to be the scheduling principle. Then came 5.0 debacle: behind schedule big-time (and arguably not ready when it went out the door). I remember discussion afterwards, where there seemed to be agreement there ought to be a more-or-less regular schedule of major releases every two years (plus or minus) with minor releases every few months. Looking at www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html, that's getting stretched. The RC-1 announcement for 7.1, originally scheduled for early September, is now listed as last week ... and didn't actually happen. (Unless I missed the memo.) The RC-1 announcement for 7.1 did come out last week (check the stable@ archives). I personally would rather wait for quality than pushed quantity. This discussion has come up countless number of times and the answer is always the same - all of us would rather wait for quality, but we'd also like some very rough timeline estimates that don't fall back into the past. Notice that I said nothing about them having to be 100% accurate. The questions are about the published timelines, the answers are about the process. Hence, nothing ever gets resolved. It makes no sense at all to have a published timeline, but claim that it is irrelevant because it's done when it's done. Do you not agree? For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) Any date in the future will provide some information regarding the release process, no matter how vague. Having a timeline that is in the past provides no information whatsoever, and only irritates people who are trying to do some planning of their own around the FreeBSD release process. People aren't complaining because of missed dates, they are complaining because of a lack of information; information that should take no time or difficulty at all to provide. At least that is my personal opinion. - Max ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:35:46 -0500 Michael Powell nightre...@verizon.net wrote: My reservation to the 3D driver thing is it is setting a very dangerous precedent if the solution involves allowing a third party commercial enterprise to dictate features FreeBSD must include before they will support it. In this case with NVidia and the amd64 3D driver let's say for sake of argument the developers decide we want the amd64 3D driver so let's go ahead and add in abc_function() and xyz_function(). Later the situation is repeated with ATI mandating that abc_function() or xyz_function() must be altered to ATI's specs to get ATI 3D acceleration. Now you have two commercial companies using FreeBSD as the mud puddle in a tug of war game. Do we really want third parties to have the ability to dictate to the devs what code goes into FreeBSD? I have doubts that this is a good path. From my understanding of the requests by NVidia; the changes they asked for were required to make a fully functional driver. They also stated that other manufacturers would need/require such code changes also. In any case, I fail to see what the problem is. Microsoft has make numerous modifications to its code to enable third party products to work correctly. With the advent of 'touch screens' now becoming a reality, along with voice recognition, etc., it seems that FreeBSD would want to stay ahead of the curve rather than playing catchup. Heck, unless I am mistaken, the ability to 'hot plug' a USB device does not even exist in FBSD, although I have heard that work is being done on it. Unfortunately, the technology has existed for over ten years. Trying to get hardware vendors interested in your product while simultaneously telling them to go screw themselves because you have no intention of working with them does not seem like a workable business model to me. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Therefore it is necessary to learn how not to be good, and to use this knowledge and not use it, according to the necessity of the cause. Machiavelli signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:59:46 +0200 Ivailo Bonev ibb_o...@mbox.contact.bg wrote: What's your problem with Lada?! :-D They make cars (especially Niva) to drive everywhere! well may be they could work on the nvidia drivers. they already have 4 of the 6 letters correct. Just my 2 euro cents... lol ok ok i admit that was a very desperate attempt at a joke. but you must understand that today your 2 euro cents is 3.3 of our canadian cents, so our humor can't go as far. -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: This discussion has come up countless number of times and the answer is always the same - all of us would rather wait for quality, but we'd also like some very rough timeline estimates that don't fall back into the past. Notice that I said nothing about them having to be 100% accurate. The questions are about the published timelines, the answers are about the process. Hence, nothing ever gets resolved. It makes no sense at all to have a published timeline, but claim that it is irrelevant because it's done when it's done. Do you not agree? I agree to a point. I wouldn't push something out if it was less than what could/should be expected. I haven't been a FreeBSD user long enough to remember the (previously quoted) 5.0 debacle, but I'm sure if I waited for a new release only to be disappointed, who knows what OS I may have went with. Yes, keeping users informed on the status of releases is nice -- that's what we have the ML for. For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) -- Glen Barber ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
I disagree. I believe, rather, that support for closed hardware specs isn't *as* important -- but is still at least somewhat important. My reservation to the 3D driver thing is it is setting a very dangerous precedent if the solution involves allowing a third party commercial enterprise to dictate features FreeBSD must include before they will support it. NVidia MUST INCLUDE full documentation of their hardware. this is normal - hardware manufacturer produces hardware, programmers do make support for it. what is common today isn't normal. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
HD radio tuner for FreeBSD?
Anyone know of a HD radio receiver (preferably USB, put PCI/PCIe ok) that we have drivers for? I assume it would show up as a usb audio device and a usb hid device? Ok, no doubt I'm being optimistic that such a thing actually even exists Steve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
michael writes: why don't we all just say it. freebsd sucks because it isn't cp/m. CP/? Poser. I want my TWENEX back. :-) Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) My point was that it shouldn't be one or the other. Taking a few minutes to update the web page does not interfere with the debugging process. It also doesn't force developers to follow that timeline. It is simply an indication to the users what their expectations should be at the present time. - Max ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Robert Huff wrote: michael writes: why don't we all just say it. freebsd sucks because it isn't cp/m. CP/? Poser. I want my TWENEX back. :-) Robert Huff haha, old man. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: HD radio tuner for FreeBSD?
Steve Franks wrote: Anyone know of a HD radio receiver (preferably USB, put PCI/PCIe ok) that we have drivers for? I assume it would show up as a usb audio device and a usb hid device? Ok, no doubt I'm being optimistic that such a thing actually even exists Steve Here is a Linux story, maybe this is worth a shot? It isn't HD but it is something.. http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh/2005/10/18/dsb-r100-usb-radio-tuner/ Brian ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:32:59 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: NVidia MUST INCLUDE full documentation of their hardware. this is normal - hardware manufacturer produces hardware, programmers do make support for it. what is common today isn't normal. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate here. NVidia produces both the hardware and drivers for same. It requested additions/changes to the basic FBSD system to enable their product to be fully functional. Changes that it seems other manufacturers would also need. Now, if FBSD has no intention of working with other hardware and/or software manufacturers/authors, maybe it should just post a big KEEP OUT sign on its web page. I seriously doubt that NVidia, or any other manufacturer is about to divulge trade secrets or patented information. What point would there be in that anyway? It is certainly not necessary. What developer in his/her right mind would be interested in making their product usable on a FBSD system if they knew that they would have to divulge all of their trade secrets, etc. Market share increases by making your product more accessible and usable by a larger group of users. If FBSD wants to remain a 'niche' product with limited support for third party products, then the question of why FBSD is not more popular with hardware vendors has been answered. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com meeting, n: An assembly of people coming together to decide what person or department not represented in the room must solve a problem. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:02:28 -0500 Jerry ges...@yahoo.com wrote: Market share increases by making your product more accessible and usable by a larger group of users. you make a good point here, jerry. what i'm wondering about though is if the 'normal' business model should be applied to fbsd or any opensource stuff in the first place. for instance, opensource 'employees' are volunteers whereas the other guys are salaried or on contract. they advertize, while we advocate. and of course they harbor trade secrets, while opensource is open (especially the bsd license). so perhaps the objective of being 'more accessible and usable' really means something a bit different here. -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) My point was that it shouldn't be one or the other. Taking a few minutes to update the web page does not interfere with the debugging process. It also doesn't force developers to follow that timeline. It is simply an indication to the users what their expectations should be at the present time. - Max Again, I wonder if the reason for the delays is that too much work is being taken on for each release. I agree that FreeBSD should be released when it is done and quality is of utmost importance. Perhaps it would be better to focus on adding a few less features than planned, so that they can be implemented well and on time. I admit, I am not part of the project, and in the end, I have no idea what's going on. I just know that other projects with FAR less developers have found a way to do this, so it's not *that* hard. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
NVidia MUST INCLUDE full documentation of their hardware. this is normal - hardware manufacturer produces hardware, programmers do make support for it. what is common today isn't normal. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate here. exactly what i wrote. the problem is that people like You (and millions others) are willing to buy product without any documentation. if you think they do this to hide their hardware secrets you are wrong. See x86 instruction set - does it reveal how Intel or Amd made their processor so fast? no! They do this to hide their hardware faults that way - that's the true reason they do this. With new hardware produced every year it MUST be buggy and certainly there are thousands of hardware bugs. with secret drivers - they can easily hide them. AFAIK at least half of their driver code are to do workaround of their hardware bugs. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Double Posts
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Jerry ges...@yahoo.com wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:38:17 -0500 Gary Hartl gha...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone have any clue what I would be getting two of every message posted to the group? It started yesterday and nothing has changed on my end (that I am aware of) I'm using outlook 2008, picking up from gmail. Thanks Gary Consider yourself lucky. I have been reading horror stories on the GMail forum regarding users losing email. In any event, if it just started and you did not change MUAs, it is almost guaranteed to be a Google (GMail) problem. By the way, are you using IMAP or POP? Hmm, this disappearing e-mails issue: I experienced it today. 2 test mails from my gmail account, to a mailing list where I am member, I see the mails sent to a gmail server from the logs of my mailing list server, but the mails failed to show up on my gmail account, Completely!! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Okay guys. This is Kenya. You pay taxes because you feel philanthropic, unlike our MPs! -- Kenneth Marende, Speaker, 10th Parilament. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Release schedules
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:20:12 -0800 Joe S js.li...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Glen Barber glen.j.bar...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, Maxim Khitrov mkhit...@gmail.com wrote: For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the 'actual' column. Otherwise, if it's a minor change in the timeline, put the new expected date in. As is the case of 7.1 release, if the person honestly has no idea when RC2 will happen, put in 'December', 'January', 'Second half of January'... 'Sometime next year' if it's that uncertain. Anything at all; it takes 5 minutes to do. In the worst case, your estimate will need to be updated again in a month or two. In the best case, the release will be made before the expected date. I, for one, promise not to complain about that. :) If the sacrifice is an out-of-date column in a webpage while bugs are being worked out, in my opinion, that's fine with me. (IMHO) My point was that it shouldn't be one or the other. Taking a few minutes to update the web page does not interfere with the debugging process. It also doesn't force developers to follow that timeline. It is simply an indication to the users what their expectations should be at the present time. - Max Again, I wonder if the reason for the delays is that too much work is being taken on for each release. I agree that FreeBSD should be released when it is done and quality is of utmost importance. Perhaps it would be better to focus on adding a few less features than planned, so that they can be implemented well and on time. I admit, I am not part of the project, and in the end, I have no idea what's going on. I just know that other projects with FAR less developers have found a way to do this, so it's not *that* hard. My biggest gripe with the entire update schedule is that the ports freeze has been frozen longer than my wife. Maybe having two separate ports, one for the current version and one for the RC? version might work better. I have never fully understood why the ports had to be frozen anyway. Why can there not be two separate entities, the current version and the beta one? -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Many a bum show has been saved by the flag. George M. Cohan signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:35:59 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: They do this to hide their hardware faults that way - that's the true reason they do this. With new hardware produced every year it MUST be buggy and certainly there are thousands of hardware bugs. with secret drivers - they can easily hide them. AFAIK at least half of their driver code are to do workaround of their hardware bugs. Your talking about things without providing any evidence as usual. It's just bollocks. NVidia has fabulous 3dgraphics cards and their drivers work very very well. At least they do on solaris (32/64bit). -- Dick Hoogendijk -- PGP/GnuPG key: 01D2433D + http://nagual.nl/ | SunOS sxce snv103 ++ + All that's really worth doing is what we do for others (Lewis Carrol) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:35:59 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: They do this to hide their hardware faults that way - that's the true reason they do this. this is really interesting. so the 'trade secrets' is largely a smoke-screen. i imagine this would also apply to propriety software as well? this is an interesting article which supports this as well as some other matters: The open and closed case http://www.spider.tm/sep2006/cstory2.html There are even reports of propriety software introducing new bugs or failing to resolve an existing one. Plus, in case of OSS there are no marketing tactics to be followed unlike closed source companies who may not reveal (or may not even know) the exact number of security flaws in their products. -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 02:44:27PM -0500, Robert Huff wrote: michael writes: why don't we all just say it. freebsd sucks because it isn't cp/m. CP/? Poser. I want my TWENEX back. :-) What do you have against ITS? -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Paul Graham: Real ugliness is not harsh-looking syntax, but having to build programs out of the wrong concepts. pgpG5Kt3VIZ0N.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Release schedules
Hi there, For example, RC2 builds were scheduled for 29 September 2008. When that day comes (or same week perhaps), whoever has the ability to change the release schedule page should update it regardless of what happened. If RC2 builds started, that should be reflected in the I have offered to update the pages if it can help somehow. I cannot do more but I can do this at least. Yours, -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.faitrade.net.pl www.slowo.pl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 07:15:35PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: cropping up and saying the equivalent of If we work on that stuff, FreeBSD will just become MS Windows, and it'll suck. I disagree with because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. Are you reading this, prad? -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth Henry Spencer: Those who don't understand Unix are doomed to reinvent it, poorly. pgpF2wqkD7i31.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:07:45AM -0800, prad wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:11:48 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I don't recall anyone saying I'm with such-and-such a FreeBSD development team, and these are the reasons we aren't going to do anything about that at this time:. i don't either, but these development teams do exist: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/index.html and so does a mechanism for initiating projects: If you feel that a project is missing, please send the URL and a short description (3-10 lines) to w...@freebsd.org. That is a much, much better response to questions about improving desktop-oriented functionality than the sort of thing I've been seeing lately from certain anti-lots-of-stuff people on this list: because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. That's not what I'd call a productive response, nor is it well supported. It doesn't serve as a viable argument -- it's just obstinate refusal to entertain the idea that functionality isn't bad just because its most obvious use is desktop-oriented. and i guess as tyson explained there needs to be a balancing of limited resources. There must always be such a balance -- but I don't see how that in any way prevents us from discussing whether the resources exist. On the other hand, their statements *do* imply that *my* position is illegitimate in some way i don't think so. it's more along the lines of we don't need this in light of the priorities. Actually, it's more like this: because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. however, i do think michael powell makes a very good point about setting a very dangerous precedent by ending up allowing third parties to have the ability to dictate to the devs what code goes into FreeBSD? I don't think anything I said suggests we let third parties dictate anything. Please point out where I suggested such a thing. We just need to make sure that we don't confuse listening to suggestions and discussing their viability, and their technical pros and cons, with taking orders from MS Windows users. Some people don't know that, and are basically told to go away by some people when they bring it up. Still other people suggest alternate approaches to fixing the problem, and are also basically told to go away, when a more appropriate response would be to say I think you should talk to the people at the swfdec and gnash projects about that, in most cases. ok so here's a solution. whenever someone tells people to go away (i don't think it has been done quite that way, but i see little point in going into that here), surely others can point to those who are in the appropriate projects. that way you have the choice of pursuing the matter or seeking an alternative os. Maybe not quite that way, but the implication has, at times, been unmistakable. Of course, if someone points people at the appropriate venue for discussing something *after* someone else has said FOAD, it may already be too late. My preference would be for people who don't have something productive to say, who only want to scare people away, to keep it to themselves. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth H. L. Mencken: In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. pgpeuPKS3TUsH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 07:15:35PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: cropping up and saying the equivalent of If we work on that stuff, FreeBSD will just become MS Windows, and it'll suck. I disagree with because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. Are you reading this, prad? i've forgotten what the original topic of this post is... on a side note, aix ftw. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 01:35:46PM -0500, Michael Powell wrote: Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 12:05:20PM +0100, Wojciech Puchar wrote: So . . . are you saying that increased support for 3D accelerated graphics is not an improvement, and should therefore not be considered a worthy goal? full support of open hardware standards is an requirement. support for closed hardware standards isn't important. I disagree. I believe, rather, that support for closed hardware specs isn't *as* important -- but is still at least somewhat important. My reservation to the 3D driver thing is it is setting a very dangerous precedent if the solution involves allowing a third party commercial enterprise to dictate features FreeBSD must include before they will support it. I agree with you on that matter. Third parties like commercial hardware vendors should not be *dictating* FreeBSD design. I understand wanting to take a careful approach to working with hardware vendors, particularly when they make such demands. I just don't think that one hardware vendor saying something like that is a good reason to abandon all hope of 3D accelerated graphics support beyond what's already there. In this case with NVidia and the amd64 3D driver let's say for sake of argument the developers decide we want the amd64 3D driver so let's go ahead and add in abc_function() and xyz_function(). Later the situation is repeated with ATI mandating that abc_function() or xyz_function() must be altered to ATI's specs to get ATI 3D acceleration. Now you have two commercial companies using FreeBSD as the mud puddle in a tug of war game. Do we really want third parties to have the ability to dictate to the devs what code goes into FreeBSD? I have doubts that this is a good path. No, we don't. When did anyone say otherwise? -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Quoth McCloctnick the Lucid: The first rule of magic is simple. Don't waste your time waving your hands and hopping when a rock or a club will do. pgpOQgbBYsaLg.pgp Description: PGP signature
ad
Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:07:45AM -0800, prad wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:11:48 -0700 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I don't recall anyone saying I'm with such-and-such a FreeBSD development team, and these are the reasons we aren't going to do anything about that at this time:. i don't either, but these development teams do exist: http://www.freebsd.org/projects/index.html and so does a mechanism for initiating projects: If you feel that a project is missing, please send the URL and a short description (3-10 lines) to w...@freebsd.org. That is a much, much better response to questions about improving desktop-oriented functionality than the sort of thing I've been seeing lately from certain anti-lots-of-stuff people on this list: because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. That's not what I'd call a productive response, nor is it well supported. It doesn't serve as a viable argument -- it's just obstinate refusal to entertain the idea that functionality isn't bad just because its most obvious use is desktop-oriented. and i guess as tyson explained there needs to be a balancing of limited resources. There must always be such a balance -- but I don't see how that in any way prevents us from discussing whether the resources exist. On the other hand, their statements *do* imply that *my* position is illegitimate in some way i don't think so. it's more along the lines of we don't need this in light of the priorities. Actually, it's more like this: because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. however, i do think michael powell makes a very good point about setting a very dangerous precedent by ending up allowing third parties to have the ability to dictate to the devs what code goes into FreeBSD? I don't think anything I said suggests we let third parties dictate anything. Please point out where I suggested such a thing. We just need to make sure that we don't confuse listening to suggestions and discussing their viability, and their technical pros and cons, with taking orders from MS Windows users. Some people don't know that, and are basically told to go away by some people when they bring it up. Still other people suggest alternate approaches to fixing the problem, and are also basically told to go away, when a more appropriate response would be to say I think you should talk to the people at the swfdec and gnash projects about that, in most cases. ok so here's a solution. whenever someone tells people to go away (i don't think it has been done quite that way, but i see little point in going into that here), surely others can point to those who are in the appropriate projects. that way you have the choice of pursuing the matter or seeking an alternative os. Maybe not quite that way, but the implication has, at times, been unmistakable. Of course, if someone points people at the appropriate venue for discussing something *after* someone else has said FOAD, it may already be too late. My preference would be for people who don't have something productive to say, who only want to scare people away, to keep it to themselves. after reading all these posts, i've still come up with this answer after looking .. freebsd - the power to serve the motto isn't the power to serve and run Far Cry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
has anyone stopped at all during this discussion and considered what you're arguing about? you're all complaining about a SERVER os that doesn't have an nvidia driver for its 64bit implementation and Wojciech. I mean seriously, has this helped anything at all? is ranting on here about those two things going to change 8.0 to be the next best gaming console? no. if you want to use freebsd on your desktop with 3D you can. just run i386. but this entire thread has gone down hill from the OP, and it is nonsense. you get a few more registers with 64bit and some more ram, big deal. show me a gaming console that needs more than four gigs of ram. its not a priority and it shouldn't be. this is a server class operating system that you CAN use on your desk if wanted. even linux in all its glory with an nvidia 64bit driver isn't all that great at gaming, i'm sorry its just not. its not that great with 3D modeling either(in house and proprietary software like maya do not count). ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 03:02:28PM -0500, Jerry wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:32:59 +0100 (CET) Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: NVidia MUST INCLUDE full documentation of their hardware. this is normal - hardware manufacturer produces hardware, programmers do make support for it. what is common today isn't normal. I honestly have no idea what you are trying to communicate here. I think he's trying to say that open source drivers would be preferable, and to develop them we'd need the hardware specs so we'd have a target toward which to develop drivers. Of course, preferable is my choice of term -- he seems to be more of the opinion that anything that isn't strictly open source should just be shunned, out of hand. While it would be nice if that was a practical option, it isn't really, at this point. NVidia produces both the hardware and drivers for same. It requested additions/changes to the basic FBSD system to enable their product to be fully functional. Changes that it seems other manufacturers would also need. At least four things need to be clarified: 1. Would the requested changes have a negative effect on system design in some way? 2. Would working on making those changes divert important resources from other, perhaps more important, projects? 3. Are the changes the same as what other hardware vendors would need before they could fully support FreeBSD, or are they different -- possibly even contradictory? If the latter, we need to consider whether such contradictions can be worked around without degrading the stability and performance characteristics of the system, and see what impact such work-arounds would have on the answer to question 2. 4. Is there any way we can talk them into helping us work on fully functional open source drivers, as AMD (which bought ATI) has promised to do for the Linux community? I don't know the answers to any of those four questions -- in part because discussion never gets past the No! You'll destroy FreeBSD if you try to support that hardware! stage of discussion. Now, if FBSD has no intention of working with other hardware and/or software manufacturers/authors, maybe it should just post a big KEEP OUT sign on its web page. I seriously doubt that NVidia, or any other manufacturer is about to divulge trade secrets or patented information. What point would there be in that anyway? It is certainly not necessary. What developer in his/her right mind would be interested in making their product usable on a FBSD system if they knew that they would have to divulge all of their trade secrets, etc. Actually, patents are publicly documented by definition -- we're just not *allowed* to use it, once it has been patented, without permission. The sort of thing they don't want to divulge is trade secrets, which you meantioned -- not patents, which you also mentioned. For some reason, though, some hardware vendors seem inclined to use patents as an excuse for keeping secrets, which never made much sense to me. IANAL, though I read about the law from time to time. Market share increases by making your product more accessible and usable by a larger group of users. If FBSD wants to remain a 'niche' product with limited support for third party products, then the question of why FBSD is not more popular with hardware vendors has been answered. That's exactly what some people want -- though it's not a universal FreeBSD goal, obviously. -- Quoth Reginald Braithwaite: Nor is it as easy as piling more features on regardless of how well they fit or whether people will actually use them. Otherwise Windows would have 97% of the market and OS X 3%. (Oh wait.) pgpoPJt7c9GiO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
michael wrote: has anyone stopped at all during this discussion and considered what you're arguing about? you're all complaining about a SERVER os that doesn't have an nvidia driver for its 64bit implementation and Wojciech. I mean seriously, has this helped anything at all? is ranting on here about those two things going to change 8.0 to be the next best gaming console? no. if you want to use freebsd on your desktop with 3D you can. just run i386. but this entire thread has gone down hill from the OP, and it is nonsense. you get a few more registers with 64bit and some more ram, big deal. show me a gaming console that needs more than four gigs of ram. its not a priority and it shouldn't be. this is a server class operating system that you CAN use on your desk if wanted. even linux in all its glory with an nvidia 64bit driver isn't all that great at gaming, i'm sorry its just not. its not that great with 3D modeling either(in house and proprietary software like maya do not count). It is a great server OS. Perhaps some would like it to be a better desktop OS? PC BSD not good enough for some I suppose? You could always get a Mac and run the NIX underneath it when needed. Brian Decide what problem you want to solve, and then get the best tool for that problem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: ad
because linux got exactly that way and it sucks now. That's not what I'd call a productive response, nor is it well supported. what kind of productivity to you request from such topic. it doesn't have to be productive. it's just fact. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Brian Whalen wrote: michael wrote: Brian Whalen wrote: michael wrote: has anyone stopped at all during this discussion and considered what you're arguing about? you're all complaining about a SERVER os that doesn't have an nvidia driver for its 64bit implementation and Wojciech. I mean seriously, has this helped anything at all? is ranting on here about those two things going to change 8.0 to be the next best gaming console? no. if you want to use freebsd on your desktop with 3D you can. just run i386. but this entire thread has gone down hill from the OP, and it is nonsense. you get a few more registers with 64bit and some more ram, big deal. show me a gaming console that needs more than four gigs of ram. its not a priority and it shouldn't be. this is a server class operating system that you CAN use on your desk if wanted. even linux in all its glory with an nvidia 64bit driver isn't all that great at gaming, i'm sorry its just not. its not that great with 3D modeling either(in house and proprietary software like maya do not count). It is a great server OS. Perhaps some would like it to be a better desktop OS? PC BSD not good enough for some I suppose? You could always get a Mac and run the NIX underneath it when needed. apparently that isn't an option. i see this all the time in the free os market. i want, i want, i want, i want. hello, there are limited developers and they actually have lives outside of freebsd. Brian Decide what problem you want to solve, and then get the best tool for that problem ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org no doubt, unless we get the multimillion dollar donation like ibm did for linux, it is what it is. I like it, it works for me, but I really can't do more than ask for things since I don't write code. I do QA work, that is about as close as I get. Brian that would be possible if freebsd ran a bit better on power or powerpc based machines. would also help if it had 15 trillion monkey developers like linux. i can't even get freebsd running on a ppc card in a power server. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
I mean seriously, has this helped anything at all? no. all i want is to stop all stupid topics about: - KDE/Gnome/other crap (or great things for somebody) BECAUSE IT'S NOT PART OF FREEBSD. FreeBSD has nothing to this, except KDE/Gnome/whatever can be run on it - support of flash in Opera/Firefox/Whatever again BECAUSE WWW BROWSER ARE NOT PART OF FREEBSD. - support of new/hot (literally)/super/extra graphics cards from NVidia. BECAUSE Xorg IS NOT PART OF FREEBSD. While IMHO full graphics support (graphics support, not GUI) should be part of kernel as driver, it isn't. As NVidia card Xorg module does need some kernel wrapper (no idea why) - then there is nothing wrong for interested people to write it as ADD ON/PORT. - asking about bloat level, visual apperance comparision etc. between FreeBSD with KDE and Windoze. because KDE ARE NOT PART OF FREEBSD, and FreeBSD on it's own doesn't have (fortunately) any desktop environment so it can't be compared. if someone like to compare KDE with windoze - OK but NOT THIS GROUP! SO - please just stop ALL NTG topics here. this group really lacks moderator. not someone that will remove posts he considers lame but all that is off topic. Off topic=not about FreeBSD OS. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
by a larger group of users. If FBSD wants to remain a 'niche' product with limited support for third party products, then the question of why FBSD is not more popular with hardware vendors has been answered. That's exactly what some people want -- though it's not a universal FreeBSD goal, obviously. there are nothing to stop nvidia to write their kernel module as they like. they may do it good, bad, whatever, just it should be ADD ON. it can't cost very much, while there will be larger market for their product. if they don't like, simply don't buy their hardware and request others to write it. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Passive Income - Up to $37,500.00
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Re: Centralized DB of system users
On Dec 12, 2008, at 10:19, Dan wrote: Wojciech Puchar(woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl)@2008.12.12 14:12:45 +0100: this case (though it's very complicated to set up, especially the first why it is right solution? Interoperability. Today, with Linux, tomorrow, Windows or Mac OS X. so not right but interoperable. if i do have only unix systems in LAN, NIS is much better easier and faster. No, it really is right if you want to authenticate email, radius, etc off of LDAP. NIS doesn't do that. Really! I guess I didn't know that before I used it for all those. for windows-only LAN with unix server, simply using samba is OK. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
Hi dear sirs! Correct please if me wrong, but as i know the source tree of FreeBSD already split into two parts - Servers-oriented (FreeBSD) and PC-BSD (Desktop oriented) ? Or team from PC-BSD is not FreeBSD peoples? WBR ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:46:03 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: if someone like to compare KDE with windoze - OK but NOT THIS GROUP! Hold the topic censorship horses there a bit... The freebsd-questions list is a general discussion forum where FreeBSD users exchange opinions, help, support and news about _anything_ that is even a bit related to FreeBSD. We don't discourage people from talking about KDE at _all_; we just redirect them to freebsd-kde@ where the discussion is more topical :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:28:26 +0300, Usr Random rand15...@yandex.ru wrote: Hi dear sirs! Correct please if me wrong, but as i know the source tree of FreeBSD already split into two parts - Servers-oriented (FreeBSD) and PC-BSD (Desktop oriented) ? Or team from PC-BSD is not FreeBSD peoples? WBR Not really, no. There is _nothing_ that is inherently server oriented about the main FreeBSD tree, and it hasn't split to anything of the sort. The PC-BSD team is a separate team that develops PC-BSD. Collaboration between the two teams is, of course, more than welcome and it _does_ happen already. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
There is _nothing_ that is inherently server oriented about the main FreeBSD tree, and it hasn't split to anything of the sort. exactly! FreeBSD is unix oriented! everything else depends on what you install. that's why it would be good to finally introduce moderation on that list - to cut off 95% of traffic that is not about FreeBSD. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
RE: Double Posts
Its a conspiracy. Is it safe to say that it is in fact gmail related? -Original Message- From: Odhiambo Washington odhia...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:41 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Double Posts On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Jerry ges...@yahoo.com wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:38:17 -0500 Gary Hartl gha...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone have any clue what I would be getting two of every message posted to the group? It started yesterday and nothing has changed on my end (that I am aware of) I'm using outlook 2008, picking up from gmail. Thanks Gary Consider yourself lucky. I have been reading horror stories on the GMail forum regarding users losing email. In any event, if it just started and you did not change MUAs, it is almost guaranteed to be a Google (GMail) problem. By the way, are you using IMAP or POP? Hmm, this disappearing e-mails issue: I experienced it today. 2 test mails from my gmail account, to a mailing list where I am member, I see the mails sent to a gmail server from the logs of my mailing list server, but the mails failed to show up on my gmail account, Completely!! -- Best regards, Odhiambo WASHINGTON, Nairobi,KE +254733744121/+254722743223 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Okay guys. This is Kenya. You pay taxes because you feel philanthropic, unlike our MPs! -- Kenneth Marende, Speaker, 10th Parilament. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Double Posts
On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:56:30 -0800 Gabe n...@att.net wrote: -Original Message- From: Odhiambo Washington odhia...@gmail.com Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 12:41 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Double Posts On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 8:27 PM, Jerry ges...@yahoo.com wrote: On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:38:17 -0500 Gary Hartl gha...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone have any clue what I would be getting two of every message posted to the group? It started yesterday and nothing has changed on my end (that I am aware of) I'm using outlook 2008, picking up from gmail. Thanks Gary Consider yourself lucky. I have been reading horror stories on the GMail forum regarding users losing email. In any event, if it just started and you did not change MUAs, it is almost guaranteed to be a Google (GMail) problem. By the way, are you using IMAP or POP? Hmm, this disappearing e-mails issue: I experienced it today. 2 test mails from my gmail account, to a mailing list where I am member, I see the mails sent to a gmail server from the logs of my mailing list server, but the mails failed to show up on my gmail account, Completely!! Its a conspiracy. Is it safe to say that it is in fact gmail related? Please don't 'top post'. If you don't know what that means, Google for it. As far as GMail is concerned, just perusal some of the posts on their mail forum. Mail disappearing and/or being delayed for 7 days, etc. Why anyone uses that piece of crap mail system is beyond me. -- Jerry ges...@yahoo.com Reality always seems harsher in the early morning. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:22:15 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: There is _nothing_ that is inherently server oriented about the main FreeBSD tree, and it hasn't split to anything of the sort. exactly! FreeBSD is unix oriented! everything else depends on what you install. that's why it would be good to finally introduce moderation on that list That's a logical leap I am not comfortable with. Back when I posted my first question here, some time during the summer of 1999, it seemed very nice that older FreeBSD users replied to my questions without chastising me for being off topic. It seems natural to return the favor now, and reply to *all* questions that I can help with; even if their relation to FreeBSD is very 'weak'. The spirit of replying to all questions, even if they are similar to ``How do I process images with a Photoshop-like program on FreeBSD?'', or even ``Windows lets me use FOO and do BAR. Is there something like this in FreeBSD?'', seems to be one of the *good* aspects of this list. Why should we destroy that good aspect by introducing moderation? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 02:28:54AM +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:22:15 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: There is _nothing_ that is inherently server oriented about the main FreeBSD tree, and it hasn't split to anything of the sort. exactly! FreeBSD is unix oriented! everything else depends on what you install. that's why it would be good to finally introduce moderation on that list That's a logical leap I am not comfortable with. Back when I posted my first question here, some time during the summer of 1999, it seemed very nice that older FreeBSD users replied to my questions without chastising me for being off topic. It seems natural to return the favor now, and reply to *all* questions that I can help with; even if their relation to FreeBSD is very 'weak'. The spirit of replying to all questions, even if they are similar to ``How do I process images with a Photoshop-like program on FreeBSD?'', or even ``Windows lets me use FOO and do BAR. Is there something like this in FreeBSD?'', seems to be one of the *good* aspects of this list. Why should we destroy that good aspect by introducing moderation? A voice of wisdom! But, we can _gently_ (it hasn't always been so gentle) teach newbies that the list is meant for something higher than just repeatedly ragging on why isn't FreeBSD more like MS or RHEL or whatever. Anyway, those example questions you used above are really FreeBSD questions of a sort, (even if kind of newbie-ish and maybe more rightfully belonging on a newbie list) and don't hurt anyone by showing up on the questions list. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On December 12, 2008 07:28:54 pm Giorgos Keramidas wrote: On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:22:15 +0100 (CET), Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote: There is _nothing_ that is inherently server oriented about the main FreeBSD tree, and it hasn't split to anything of the sort. exactly! FreeBSD is unix oriented! everything else depends on what you install. that's why it would be good to finally introduce moderation on that list That's a logical leap I am not comfortable with. Back when I posted my first question here, some time during the summer of 1999, it seemed very nice that older FreeBSD users replied to my questions without chastising me for being off topic. It seems natural to return the favor now, and reply to *all* questions that I can help with; even if their relation to FreeBSD is very 'weak'. The spirit of replying to all questions, even if they are similar to ``How do I process images with a Photoshop-like program on FreeBSD?'', or even ``Windows lets me use FOO and do BAR. Is there something like this in FreeBSD?'', seems to be one of the *good* aspects of this list. Why should we destroy that good aspect by introducing moderation? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Agreed. The noise level on this list is quite low, and off-topic threads get discouraged after a few iterations. I would NOT be in favour of moderation - I like it the way it is. -- Mike Jeays http://www.jeays.ca ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Valentin Bud valentin@gmail.com writes: If you only have UNIX systems in LAN. But in my case i have Linux + FreeBSD (server). From the handbook NIS only works between FBSDs. Am i missing something? Apparently. Quoting the Handbook: NIS, which stands for Network Information Services, was developed by Sun Microsystems to centralize administration of UNIX (originally SunOS) systems. It has now essentially become an industry standard; all major UNIX like systems (Solaris, HP-UX, AIX(R), Linux, NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, etc) support NIS. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Centralized DB of system users
Valentin Bud valentin@gmail.com writes: handbook but as you guys said it's FBSD only Well, aside from other Unix-like systems. Certainly Linux, MacOS, anything from Sun (which invented it), all the other BSDs, Ultrix, and probably anything else that ends in 'ix'. It might be a bit tricky to get running with VMS or Windows, but Samba should clean bridge that gap for you. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: USB Flash Drives
fixer ord...@fixer.com writes: FreeBSD localhost 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE #0: Fri Jan 12 11:05:30 UTC 2007 r...@dessler.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/SMP i386 localhost# I just discovered flash drives. They are very easy to use on Windows. I don't know if FreeBSD supports these drives. But if FreeBSD does, I need instructions on how-to-use. Thanks in advance for anyone who can help. Rather than mounting the disks, I find it easier to use the mtools port (emulators/mtools). The commands look like the old ms-dos commands, and include a copy command. -- Lowell Gilbert, embedded/networking software engineer, Boston area http://be-well.ilk.org/~lowell/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Why FreeBSD not popular on hardware vendors
On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:28:54 +0200 Giorgos Keramidas keram...@freebsd.org wrote: It seems natural to return the favor now, and reply to *all* questions that I can help with; even if their relation to FreeBSD is very 'weak'. i think that is both very generous, appropriate and in keeping with the spirit of freebsd. beastie is after all a daemon would be pleased :) -- In friendship, prad ... with you on your journey Towards Freedom http://www.towardsfreedom.com (website) Information, Inspiration, Imagination - truly a site for soaring I's ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
