Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
donor"==real spammer. I don't see why I should accept that order. You have no supporters of your rude and outlandish behavior, and you get worse with each all your opinions criticism. You do not represent FreeBSD, the FreeBSD foundation, or the freebsd-questions mailing list. You can have whatever ridiculous opinions you want, and I and others can rebut them to our heart's content, but do not presume that you have some right or privilege to tell anyone on this list to "shut up" and "stop posting". Thank you. I replied to you privately, and you said about stopping that thread. Yet - you forwarded this on public. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Written by Wojciech Puchar on 06/02/09 18:01>> >>> Some people may want both, but well you can't have everything. It's not >>> possible to everyone will agree with everyone on mailing list, and with >>> every potential new user. >> >> I know that disagreeing is inevitable. My position is that a pleasant >> tone would be nice. > > Mine too. What i really don't like here sometimes are lack of > discussion, just agressive answers from some people. > I'm literally rolling on the floor laughing at your hypocritical observation here. The whole reason this tangled mess of threads even exists is because you were aggressive in your own response to the potential donor. That's all I have to say. The sooner this thread and its godforsaken stepchildren die, the better. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Written by Wojciech Puchar on 06/03/09 15:15>> >> >> I'm literally rolling on the floor laughing at your hypocritical >> observation here. The whole reason this tangled mess of threads even >> exists is because you were aggressive in your own response to the >> potential donor. >> >> That's all I have to say. The sooner this thread and its godforsaken >> stepchildren die, the better. >> >> > so stop posting and shut up about "being aggressive" to "potential > donor"==real spammer. I don't see why I should accept that order. You have no supporters of your rude and outlandish behavior, and you get worse with each criticism. You do not represent FreeBSD, the FreeBSD foundation, or the freebsd-questions mailing list. You can have whatever ridiculous opinions you want, and I and others can rebut them to our heart's content, but do not presume that you have some right or privilege to tell anyone on this list to "shut up" and "stop posting". Thank you. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
matter at all. Rather if you can get answer to questions about FreeBSD. You can, even easier if some moderation would be present here. Considering that the mailing list is one of the few places where support exists, I don't know that I can agree with you. Also, I don't think that an artificial filter or barrier-to-entry is desirable, in general. Definitely is. It saves our time and their time. but they don't learn well by reading technical documentation Then he/she don't need unix, or at least will not ever be able to use it without ability to read the documentation. Some people may want both, but well you can't have everything. It's not possible to everyone will agree with everyone on mailing list, and with every potential new user. I know that disagreeing is inevitable. My position is that a pleasant tone would be nice. Mine too. What i really don't like here sometimes are lack of discussion, just agressive answers from some people. An example of a harsh tone (one which I haven't seen on here) is telling someone to RTFM. No it isn't if you point out WHICH manual - which i always do. Another example (which I have seen on here) is people who just enjoy arguing turning reasonable threads into flamewars. Maybe they enjoy, but usually - they just can't resist different opinions and start to attack personally. This keeps the system's quality high. I politely disagree. I doubt that a harsh community does anything to maintain a high-quality system. Why harsh? I don't understand you here. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
this way - nobody should write anyone. there is always a line that missed - completely changes a sense of sentence. I'm sure you know that this is an absurd proposition. It's just explanation. You can't write anything that will be absolutely resistible to misreading. If second - then please Owners declare it clearly and just add statement about this. Isn't there a middle-ground? Where we can care about how we present ourselves, yet we do not feel beholden to the possible sponsors? A good example would be to always respond kindly and appropriately, There is some difference between responding kindly, and shutting up being aware that your opinion may be not accepted by potential new users. If you are for the second - you propose that any "non-standard" opinion should not be presented. Actually - this way FreeBSD should cease to exist, because it's based on non-standard opinions about how operating system should be done - contrary to "standard" which define things like micro-soft windows. Anyway - Do users of any commercial product support list must think if their words will lower the selling of the product? i don't think so. They probably care less about the product. I personally want FreeBSD to succeed because it is Why you want it to succeed? IT ALREADY DID! You should want it only to be kept that way - keeping the quality. , in many ways, superior to all of the alternatives. No - in many ways it does not have alternatives at all. As such, I hope that when I discuss it, I present it in a good light. For example, if someone asks me, "How do you do in FreeBSD?", I rarely suggest that the go read the fine manual. And i do - when the answer is clearly readable in manual. So i help reader can both get answer to his question and learn how to use man(1) "Every sentence that can potentially lower the income or core team are punished with 10 lashes. Erik Osterholm will be the executor". More absurdity. Really no sense of humour? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 12:34:55AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > > Any person might look at people in the community and decide that they > > don't want to be a part of that community after all. That's why it > > Just reread this and, ... don't you think it's quite like a good filter? > > I don't talk about sponsors, but a new potential users. > > If someone needs good unix, he/she will try it and join us. As i said > before if he/she agrees with maillist users personal opinions doesn't > matter at all. Rather if you can get answer to questions about FreeBSD. > You can, even easier if some moderation would be present here. Considering that the mailing list is one of the few places where support exists, I don't know that I can agree with you. Also, I don't think that an artificial filter or barrier-to-entry is desirable, in general. If a person needs good unix, but they don't learn well by reading technical documentation, a good community can be highly beneficial. Personally, I wouldn't want to discriminate against users for this. > Some people may want both, but well you can't have everything. It's not > possible to everyone will agree with everyone on mailing list, and with > every potential new user. I know that disagreeing is inevitable. My position is that a pleasant tone would be nice. An example of a harsh tone (one which I haven't seen on here) is telling someone to RTFM. Another example (which I have seen on here) is people who just enjoy arguing turning reasonable threads into flamewars. > This keeps the system's quality high. I politely disagree. I doubt that a harsh community does anything to maintain a high-quality system. Erik ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 12:03:06AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> ... > >> Even at first post i wrote that i'm not FreeBSD owners and they will > >> decide. > > > > We're all human. The potential sponsors might have missed the line > > where you said that you were not an owner. > > this way - nobody should write anyone. there is always a line that missed > - completely changes a sense of sentence. I'm sure you know that this is an absurd proposition. > >> Do you really mean i have enough power to just dumb any sponsors > >> (potential, not "potential") by writing a post on public mailing > >> list? > > > > Any person might look at people in the community and decide that > > they don't want to be a part of that community after all. That's > > why it would be nice if everyone could be courteous and helpful. > > > > I'm not specifically referring to you, Mr. Puchar. I'm talking > > about the general case. > > You are right. But do you try to say that we should think about > consequences for potential sponsoring every word we say?! > > Is FreeBSD FREE SOFTWARE or commercial product that's selling some > way? > > If first - then we should not care how much more/less money people > will pay as a gift every time we post. > > If second - then please Owners declare it clearly and just add > statement about this. Isn't there a middle-ground? Where we can care about how we present ourselves, yet we do not feel beholden to the possible sponsors? A good example would be to always respond kindly and appropriately, yet not yield to demands made on us by others. > Anyway - Do users of any commercial product support list must think > if their words will lower the selling of the product? i don't think > so. They probably care less about the product. I personally want FreeBSD to succeed because it is, in many ways, superior to all of the alternatives. As such, I hope that when I discuss it, I present it in a good light. For example, if someone asks me, "How do you do in FreeBSD?", I rarely suggest that the go read the fine manual. > But if i'm not right - please add on FreeBSD webpage/mailing list > info > > "Every sentence that can potentially lower the income or core team > are punished with 10 lashes. Erik Osterholm will be the executor". More absurdity. Erik ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Any person might look at people in the community and decide that they don't want to be a part of that community after all. That's why it Just reread this and, ... don't you think it's quite like a good filter? I don't talk about sponsors, but a new potential users. If someone needs good unix, he/she will try it and join us. As i said before if he/she agrees with maillist users personal opinions doesn't matter at all. Rather if you can get answer to questions about FreeBSD. You can, even easier if some moderation would be present here. If someone needs to "feel good", "feel the spirit" instead of good software etc... Let's better use Ubuntu or whatever. Some people may want both, but well you can't have everything. It's not possible to everyone will agree with everyone on mailing list, and with every potential new user. This keeps the system's quality high. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 11:20:23PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >> just added option to pay by instalments > > > > The original poster several days ago suggested installments. His > > original post suggested $50-$100/month. That is $600-$1200/year. > > You repeatedly said that he would need to "add two zeros". Adding > > "two zeros" would be $60,000 - $120,000/year. > > Yes - i missed this "monthly" and sorry for this. > ... > Even at first post i wrote that i'm not FreeBSD owners and they will > decide. We're all human. The potential sponsors might have missed the line where you said that you were not an owner. Just as you missed the bit where they were interested in monthly contributions. > Do you really mean i have enough power to just dumb any sponsors > (potential, not "potential") by writing a post on public mailing > list? Any person might look at people in the community and decide that they don't want to be a part of that community after all. That's why it would be nice if everyone could be courteous and helpful. I'm not specifically referring to you, Mr. Puchar. I'm talking about the general case. Like it or not, people who post on a mailing list or forum of an open source project often make or break the project and influence people's decisions to use support the project. Ubuntu's success is credited, in part, to the wonderful community. Erik ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
2009/6/2 Wojciech Puchar : ... >> >>> Do you really mean i have enough power to just dumb any sponsors >>> (potential, not "potential") by writing a post on public mailing >>> list? >> >> Any person might look at people in the community and decide that they >> don't want to be a part of that community after all. That's why it >> would be nice if everyone could be courteous and helpful. >> >> I'm not specifically referring to you, Mr. Puchar. I'm talking about >> the general case. > > You are right. But do you try to say that we should think about consequences > for potential sponsoring every word we say?! > > Is FreeBSD FREE SOFTWARE or commercial product that's selling some way? > > If first - then we should not care how much more/less money people will pay > as a gift every time we post. > > If second - then please Owners declare it clearly and just add statement > about this. > > Anyway - Do users of any commercial product support list must think if their > words will lower the selling of the product? i don't think so. > > > But if i'm not right - please add on FreeBSD webpage/mailing list info > > "Every sentence that can potentially lower the income or core team are > punished with 10 lashes. Erik Osterholm will be the executor". > Or, you could see from the attitude of the users that they don't deserve your hard earned cash, and can carry on using an underfunded operating system TO MAKE MONEY. Yes, that's you. I bet you don't talk to YOUR customers like that. Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
... Even at first post i wrote that i'm not FreeBSD owners and they will decide. We're all human. The potential sponsors might have missed the line where you said that you were not an owner. this way - nobody should write anyone. there is always a line that missed - completely changes a sense of sentence. Just as you missed the bit where they were interested in monthly contributions. yes. Do you really mean i have enough power to just dumb any sponsors (potential, not "potential") by writing a post on public mailing list? Any person might look at people in the community and decide that they don't want to be a part of that community after all. That's why it would be nice if everyone could be courteous and helpful. I'm not specifically referring to you, Mr. Puchar. I'm talking about the general case. You are right. But do you try to say that we should think about consequences for potential sponsoring every word we say?! Is FreeBSD FREE SOFTWARE or commercial product that's selling some way? If first - then we should not care how much more/less money people will pay as a gift every time we post. If second - then please Owners declare it clearly and just add statement about this. Anyway - Do users of any commercial product support list must think if their words will lower the selling of the product? i don't think so. But if i'm not right - please add on FreeBSD webpage/mailing list info "Every sentence that can potentially lower the income or core team are punished with 10 lashes. Erik Osterholm will be the executor". ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
just added option to pay by instalments The original poster several days ago suggested installments. His original post suggested $50-$100/month. That is $600-$1200/year. You repeatedly said that he would need to "add two zeros". Adding "two zeros" would be $60,000 - $120,000/year. Yes - i missed this "monthly" and sorry for this. Instead of the original poster's range of $50-$100/month, the minimum amount needed for a link is $417/month. A modest increase over what the original poster suggested, not 100 times what the original poster suggested as you repeatedly stated. It would be very nice for people to just say about this at the beginning. All i suggested was that 5-10 thousands are needed to get real advert on main site, which i repeated lots of times. Finally it was confirmed! Wouldn't be much easier to just tell this instead of flamewars, attacks and using me to relieve one's personal mental problems? Not for me, as i don't care about such kind of answers, but for everyone else reading this? Or - completete nonsense - talking about lost opportunity of sponsoring. Do you really mean i have enough power to just dumb any sponsors (potential, not "potential") by writing a post on public mailing list? Even at first post i wrote that i'm not FreeBSD owners and they will decide. Maybe if i would be the man that gives 5$ PER YEAR i would have such a power. But i rather think not. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Tuesday, June 02, 2009, at 12:44PM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >>> You believe he will pay for 4 years? >>> >> >> No... he is suggesting quadrupling the amount. > >so we end in what i suggested in the beginning - 5-10 thousands. >just added option to pay by instalments The original poster several days ago suggested installments. His original post suggested $50-$100/month. That is $600-$1200/year. You repeatedly said that he would need to "add two zeros". Adding "two zeros" would be $60,000 - $120,000/year. This is not accurate. Adding less than one zero would be more than sufficient to obtain a link. Instead of the original poster's range of $50-$100/month, the minimum amount needed for a link is $417/month. A modest increase over what the original poster suggested, not 100 times what the original poster suggested as you repeatedly stated. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
You believe he will pay for 4 years? No... he is suggesting quadrupling the amount. so we end in what i suggested in the beginning - 5-10 thousands. just added option to pay by instalments ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
2009/6/2 Wojciech Puchar : >> I can't resist. The lack of math is killing me: >> >> ONE zero. ONE (1) ONE zero. >> >> 12 months/year * 50/month = $600/year >> 12 months/year * 100/month = $1200/year >> >> $600/year / $5000/year = 0.12 >> $1200/year / $5000/year = 0.24 (or about a quarter of what is needed >> for a link). >> >> $417/month = $5004/year. > > You believe he will pay for 4 years? > No... he is suggesting quadrupling the amount. Big clue: >> $417/month = $5004/year. Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
I can't resist. The lack of math is killing me: ONE zero. ONE (1) ONE zero. 12 months/year * 50/month = $600/year 12 months/year * 100/month = $1200/year $600/year / $5000/year = 0.12 $1200/year / $5000/year = 0.24 (or about a quarter of what is needed for a link). $417/month = $5004/year. You believe he will pay for 4 years? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Tuesday, June 02, 2009, at 07:23AM, "Wojciech Puchar" wrote: >> >> http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml >> >> So, instead of being pissed on, they might have been persuaded to pay a >> little >> more, get their link and help the project as a whole. > >That's what i told - add two zeroes to be advertised. I can't resist. The lack of math is killing me: ONE zero. ONE (1) ONE zero. 12 months/year * 50/month = $600/year 12 months/year * 100/month = $1200/year $600/year / $5000/year = 0.12 $1200/year / $5000/year = 0.24 (or about a quarter of what is needed for a link). $417/month = $5004/year. >> Missed opportunity. >> >sure not. >___ >freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml So, instead of being pissed on, they might have been persuaded to pay a little more, get their link and help the project as a whole. That's what i told - add two zeroes to be advertised. Missed opportunity. sure not. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 01:08:30AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar typed: > > >I still cannot understand why you - an active, experienced and > >knowledgeable FBSD user - would want to scare off potential donors for the > > once again please reread that post. it wasn't even potential donor, but > potential advert buyer. But if i'm really wrong, i will mail him and say > that he can buy advert on FreeBSD webpage for 100$. I just re-read it. >>>1. Monthly sponsoring of around 50 to 100 USD That's *monthly*. It's not insubstantial as you keep implying, and it even shows commitment, not a one-time shot. Hardly spam in my book. >>>What we ask for in return for our sponsorships is a short mentioning on the >>>site somewhere with a link to our website. They don't want an advert but a link. That's what you get for 5000 USD/year on http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/donate/sponsors.shtml So, instead of being pissed on, they might have been persuaded to pay a little more, get their link and help the project as a whole. Missed opportunity. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Would all the children fighting in this thread please go suck your binkies and leave the list alone. This has gone on for far too long, has worn out any entertainment value it ever had and is clearly sucking up valuable bandwidth. And yes, I'm well aware you'll feel compelled to respond, so all responses will go to /dev/null. Grow up already. -- Paul Schmehl, Senior Infosec Analyst As if it wasn't already obvious, my opinions are my own and not those of my employer. *** Check the headers before clicking on Reply. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
it's UNMODERATED mailing list, so i can share my opinion. And you are really the last person i care about when presenting my opinion. So are you going to answer my question? Why did you answer his question? already did. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
2009/5/28 Wojciech Puchar : >> >> Actually he said: >> >> > href=http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/freebsd-questions@freebsd.org/12268152.html> >> What we ask for in return for our sponsorships is a short mentioning >> on the site somewhere with a link to our website. > > so if you believe it means that he will be happy with being on list, i can > get him back if you like ;) > >> I took that to mean on the Sponsors' page, not the main page, and even >> if it does, it is _not your place_ to tell sponsors that their > > it's UNMODERATED mailing list, so i can share my opinion. > > And you are really the last person i care about when presenting my opinion. > So are you going to answer my question? Why did you answer his question? Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Actually he said: http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/freebsd-questions@freebsd.org/12268152.html> What we ask for in return for our sponsorships is a short mentioning on the site somewhere with a link to our website. so if you believe it means that he will be happy with being on list, i can get him back if you like ;) I took that to mean on the Sponsors' page, not the main page, and even if it does, it is _not your place_ to tell sponsors that their it's UNMODERATED mailing list, so i can share my opinion. And you are really the last person i care about when presenting my opinion. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
2009/5/28 Wojciech Puchar : >>> anyway, i reread the original "sponsoring" offer and i think i understand >>> well. so - if FreeBSD team like to accept donations that way, my 100$ is >>> still waiting :) >> >> I am afraid you still do not understand it. This sponsorship offer was NOT >> directed to you. > > did you really read my sentence. > > I TOO OFFER 100$ for getting my advert on FreeBSD webpage, as he did. If > FreeBSD core team accept this, 200$ is ready. > > But i think you simply don't really want to read what i write, you better > like to repeat the same sentences over and over again. > > hope it will change Actually he said: http://www.opensubscriber.com/message/freebsd-questions@freebsd.org/12268152.html> What we ask for in return for our sponsorships is a short mentioning on the site somewhere with a link to our website. I took that to mean on the Sponsors' page, not the main page, and even if it does, it is _not your place_ to tell sponsors that their donations aren't 'good' enough. Now please read this question and answer it: Why did you reply to the message? Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
anyway, i reread the original "sponsoring" offer and i think i understand well. so - if FreeBSD team like to accept donations that way, my 100$ is still waiting :) I am afraid you still do not understand it. This sponsorship offer was NOT directed to you. did you really read my sentence. I TOO OFFER 100$ for getting my advert on FreeBSD webpage, as he did. If FreeBSD core team accept this, 200$ is ready. But i think you simply don't really want to read what i write, you better like to repeat the same sentences over and over again. hope it will change ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
I am afraid you still do not understand it. This sponsorship offer was NOT directed to you. Neither was it to me. I did not reply to it because it was clearly addressed to the core team. it was addressed to mailing list. if he would like to address it to core team, then he would do this! to be clear - it was mostly spam-like post. I still cannot understand why you - an active, experienced and knowledgeable FBSD user - would want to scare off potential donors for the once again please reread that post. it wasn't even potential donor, but potential advert buyer. But if i'm really wrong, i will mail him and say that he can buy advert on FreeBSD webpage for 100$. Actually i talked with him privately so it won't be a problem. in the same time, i will get another 100$ as it's quite cheap price for advert on such popular webpage! I think you finally catched what i mean, if not - i will try to explain again. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Hi there, First of all, if anyone is still reading it, I apologize if I sounded harsh but I do care about FreeBSD so it does bother me that potential supporters are turned down. Explanation below. > anyway, i reread the original "sponsoring" offer and i think i understand > well. so - if FreeBSD team like to accept donations that way, my 100$ is > still waiting :) I am afraid you still do not understand it. This sponsorship offer was NOT directed to you. Neither was it to me. I did not reply to it because it was clearly addressed to the core team. I still cannot understand why you - an active, experienced and knowledgeable FBSD user - would want to scare off potential donors for the project? Contrary to you, I work in the fundraising field and I cannot imagine turning people down that way. Secondly, some donors often start by making small donations but they may at some point cosinder "upgrading" their level of contribution. There is nothing wrong with that. And thirdly, I may have missed something but when did someone from the core team say that "they like to accept donations that way"? Yours, -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Sorry to wade in to this, but the reality has been and is just the oposite. It is m. Puchar who has been making reactionary responses and somewhat unkind ones at that.Is it a language issue? Or is this. please tell me (privately) the fragment that you read as this, because everything i type i try to do it with clear explanation and arguments, not fighting. But i'm not native english speaker of course. He wanted his banner on FreeBSD site for <100$ Or maybe i'm wrong - if so, please Core Team to put our little company's link on my page and i will send 100$ today. Don't forget to give me account number. anyway, i reread the original "sponsoring" offer and i think i understand well. so - if FreeBSD team like to accept donations that way, my 100$ is still waiting :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 09:21:19PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: > >>"mainstream", or because i have opinion at all, i just respond normally. > > > >Wojtek - I also think you have the capacity to help and you often do. But > >don't pretend to be speaking for the FreeBSD team because you are doing > reread my posts. i didn't speak for them and i said that i'm not them. > i AS USUAL tell what i think. > > And YOU just don't accept this because it's completely different point of > view than yours. You - like most people - react with fear/aggression when > hearing/reading something completely agains the knowledge you've been put > to the brain for years. Who is right doesn't matter at all that cases. > > I understand this because is natural reaction, often not fully conscious. > > As you - and few other people - can not use arguments just attacks, it > make the list polluted. Sorry to wade in to this, but the reality has been and is just the oposite. It is m. Puchar who has been making reactionary responses and somewhat unkind ones at that.Is it a language issue? Or is it a lack in self awareness/examination? jerry > And - back to that funny "sponsor" - I can only do favour sending them > out. Can't you see it's semi-automatic posts to whatever he found, because > he just want to advertise yourself and his "webpage improvement" services? > (improvement==adding tons of flash, javas...t etc.) > > He wanted his banner on FreeBSD site for <100$ > > Or maybe i'm wrong - if so, please Core Team to put our little > company's link on my page and i will send 100$ today. Don't forget to give > me account number. > > Even more - i will find 10 friends to do the same. Just 10 links with > small letters ;) and 1000$ is yours. > > The trick of doing ANY business, and non-profit work is to NOT TAKE EVERY > CRAP, just because you see money. I'm sure you already know it in your > business, so why can't you see this here? > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Wed 27 May 2009 at 09:44:03 PDT Glen Barber wrote: This is enough. I agree. It is characteristic of flamewars that the participants are no longer talking about anything except each other. It's entirely off-topic. I don't know which is more tiresome, Wojciech's edgy remarks or the constant carping about the way he expresses himself. Ad hominem: attacking the man (or his manner of speaking) rather than the substance of his statements. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
2009/5/27 Wojciech Puchar : >>> "mainstream", or because i have opinion at all, i just respond normally. >> >> Wojtek - I also think you have the capacity to help and you often do. But >> don't pretend to be speaking for the FreeBSD team because you are doing > > reread my posts. i didn't speak for them and i said that i'm not them. > i AS USUAL tell what i think. > > And YOU just don't accept this because it's completely different point of > view than yours. You - like most people - react with fear/aggression when > hearing/reading something completely agains the knowledge you've been put to > the brain for years. Who is right doesn't matter at all that cases. > > I understand this because is natural reaction, often not fully conscious. > > As you - and few other people - can not use arguments just attacks, it make > the list polluted. > > And - back to that funny "sponsor" - I can only do favour sending them out. > Can't you see it's semi-automatic posts to whatever he found, because he > just want to advertise yourself and his "webpage improvement" services? > (improvement==adding tons of flash, javas...t etc.) > > He wanted his banner on FreeBSD site for <100$ > > Or maybe i'm wrong - if so, please Core Team to put our little company's > link on my page and i will send 100$ today. Don't forget to give me account > number. > > Even more - i will find 10 friends to do the same. Just 10 links with small > letters ;) and 1000$ is yours. > > The trick of doing ANY business, and non-profit work is to NOT TAKE EVERY > CRAP, just because you see money. I'm sure you already know it in your > business, so why can't you see this here? But it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS. It also wasn't automated. Chris -- A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing? A: Top-posting. Q: What is the most annoying thing in a mailing list? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
"mainstream", or because i have opinion at all, i just respond normally. Wojtek - I also think you have the capacity to help and you often do. But don't pretend to be speaking for the FreeBSD team because you are doing reread my posts. i didn't speak for them and i said that i'm not them. i AS USUAL tell what i think. And YOU just don't accept this because it's completely different point of view than yours. You - like most people - react with fear/aggression when hearing/reading something completely agains the knowledge you've been put to the brain for years. Who is right doesn't matter at all that cases. I understand this because is natural reaction, often not fully conscious. As you - and few other people - can not use arguments just attacks, it make the list polluted. And - back to that funny "sponsor" - I can only do favour sending them out. Can't you see it's semi-automatic posts to whatever he found, because he just want to advertise yourself and his "webpage improvement" services? (improvement==adding tons of flash, javas...t etc.) He wanted his banner on FreeBSD site for <100$ Or maybe i'm wrong - if so, please Core Team to put our little company's link on my page and i will send 100$ today. Don't forget to give me account number. Even more - i will find 10 friends to do the same. Just 10 links with small letters ;) and 1000$ is yours. The trick of doing ANY business, and non-profit work is to NOT TAKE EVERY CRAP, just because you see money. I'm sure you already know it in your business, so why can't you see this here? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
> While being attacked for almost EVERY my opinion just because is not > "mainstream", or because i have opinion at all, i just respond normally. Wojtek - I also think you have the capacity to help and you often do. But don't pretend to be speaking for the FreeBSD team because you are doing them disfavour. This was a question addressed to them but asked on this list perhaps because the OP did not find another way of contacting the team. Is it so hard to understand? Please! -- Zbigniew Szalbot www.fairtrade.net.pl ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Thanks to your attitude, actions, and demeanor, I will be unsubscribing from this list. Glen: Please don't! I agree. And Wojciech, is there any way we can convince you to show a more positive attitude to the people on this list? it is positive. actually very positive :) While being attacked for almost EVERY my opinion just because is not "mainstream", or because i have opinion at all, i just respond normally. isn't it positive? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Glen Barber wrote: >> >> just another funny post - it's not an opinion, it's a fact BECAUSE YOU >> DECIDED SO. >> >> please post more :) >> > > You continuously do this. You post responses to posts that (as > previously stated) scare off users and, in this case, a potential > sponsor. > > You are then told that your reply was unnecessary and unwarranted, > then you continue to post snide remarks and taunt those telling you > that you are wrong. > > Thanks to your attitude, actions, and demeanor, I will be > unsubscribing from this list. > > Glen: Please don't! And Wojciech, is there any way we can convince you to show a more positive attitude to the people on this list? I believe you have the capacity of helping people, why don't you show a little more positive energy. You do get really aggressive at times. Please take a few minutes to reconsider your answers before hitting 'Send'. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
Thanks to your attitude, actions, and demeanor, I will be unsubscribing from this list. Glen - please don't. Me too! Don't unsubscribe :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
> Thanks to your attitude, actions, and demeanor, I will be > unsubscribing from this list. Glen - please don't. I have never met so many supportive people as on this list. I do hope Wojtek will just stop doing this but even if he doesn't, we should not let such people determine the quality of this list. Just my 2c. -- Zbigniew Szalbot ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
On Wednesday 27 May 2009 11:44:03 am Glen Barber wrote: > Thanks to your attitude, actions, and demeanor, I will be > unsubscribing from this list. Don't. He's hardly the only PITA in support mailing lists. Just add him to your killfile and move on. -- Kirk Strauser ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Flamewar ( was: Sponsoring FreeBSD)
You are then told that your reply was unnecessary and unwarranted, then you continue to post snide remarks and taunt those telling you that you are wrong. Thanks to your attitude, actions, and demeanor, I will be unsubscribing from this list. PLEASE NO! I like your posts :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
