Re: Thank you for bsdstats!
Since this may by of interest to others, including those maintaining ports, I've just created a dump of the history data for ports and versions reported in … not the reporting ports is optional, there appears to only be about 10% of the hosts that report in port information … The dump is available at http://www.bsdstats.org/ports.raw.sql.bz2 it contains a postgresql dump of three tables: ports, where id == system id (anonymous data, but let's you group data) catid == link to port_category (ie. net, www) sw_id == link to port_software (ie. apache, perl) the data goes back to '07, so a fair amount of history to look at … For those unaware of what BSDstats is, check out http://www.bsdstats.org *or* /usr/ports/sysutils/bsdstats … short summary: An OptIn only site that accumulates statistics on *BSD related usage … as the #s show when you go to the site, it is by no means close to the # of sites using *BSD ... We are averaging over 6k hosts reporting in each month, for 7 different variants of *BSD: PC-BSD, FreeBSD, DesktopBSD, DragonflyBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD and MidnightBSD To participate is a simple 'make install' in /usr/ports/sysutils/bsdstats … at a minimum, just make sure you enable it to run monthly out of periodic … The data collected and stored is done so totally anonymously … we collect no IP *or* hostname information … each participate gets an Id that is stored in a token file that is used for reporting, which also allows the system to work through proxy / nat, since the individual ID is generated the first time you connect to the system, and used going forward … On 2011-12-10, at 11:06 PM, Alex Libman wrote: > Dear BSD Stats Team, > > I just wanted to drop you a line and thank you for bsdstats. I run it > on my *BSD installations whenever it is feasible. I am also wondering > if it would be possible to access the aggregate data in a raw format. > I am particularly curious about the ports usage data... > > Best regards, > Alex Libman ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Thank you for excellent support
Recently the address I have used for years to post here stopped working. After several pleas for help some nice list owner forwarded by mail to the postmaster, who spent a lot of time tracking down the problem. My ISP has been bought and sold several times, so that my address no longer passes the test for validity. So now I am using a new gmail account. This is the kind of service that is all too often lacking these days. Thank you, whoever you were, for doing such a great job. Makes me proud to be associated with FreeBSD ... have been since 2.x. Gary Dunn Open Slate Project ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: migrate system disk <- thank you
Thank you everybody for your help! From: Matthias Apitz To: Edward Cc: Dánielisz László ; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Thu, September 23, 2010 8:19:16 AM Subject: Re: migrate system disk El día Thursday, September 23, 2010 a las 09:37:42AM +0800, Edward escribió: > > > I have an old HDD which should be replaced soon, actually that HDD stands > > as >my > > > system disk, what is your suggesion, how should I migrate the FreeBSD 8.1 >from > > > the old disk to the new one? > > I've used to do this a lot for server hardware migration, moving from 1 > server to another new server. This blog post recorded what I tried & did : >http://scratching.psybermonkey.net/2010/01/freebsd-backup-and-restore-freebsd.html >l I did an similar aproach, moving a complete system by dump/restore to another (virtual) hardware to get a 1:1 clone of my laptop. The steps are documented in detail here: http://www.unixarea.de/OS/moveFreeBSDintoVM.txt HIH matthias -- Matthias Apitz t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e - w http://www.unixarea.de/ Solidarity with the zionistic pirates of Israel? Not in my name! ¿Solidaridad con los piratas sionistas de Israel? ¡No en mi nombre! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Thank you all for FreeBSD
Thanks to all people who program, develop and h/-\ck for FreeBSD - it is a great free system and best choice ... Thanks! - anonymous ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
FreeBSD 8 USB stack - Thank you!
I just installed FreeBSD 8. I'm not sure which developers had a hand in the new USB stack, but I appreciate the effort put forth. Thank you all! Finally, I can use my printer without having to hack the ulpt.c file. I'm so happy! :-) -Modulok- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Thank You for surfing the MyListManager website.
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RE: Need to edit rc.conf, but FS won't allow. [Thank you, Solved]
> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:36:02 +0200> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL > PROTECTED]> CC: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Need to edit > rc.conf, but FS won't allow.> > Lisandro Grullon escribió:> > Hi all,> > I > was playing around with rc.conf under /etc and accidentally didn't quote > properly one of my "YES" entries, now the system won't boot. I tried booting > into single user and re-editing the file, yet the time I tried saving it it > tells me that the root files systm is read only. Is ther a way around this. > > > > / is read-only in single user mode. Use "mount -u /" to remount / witht > > the default options in /etc/fstab after booting into single user mode. > You > should be able to edit rc.conf now.> > Regards,> > -- > Gabor Kovesdan> > FreeBSD Volunteer> > EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .:|:. [EMAIL PROTECTED]> WEB: > http://people.FreeBSD.org/~gabor .:|:. http://kovesdan.org> > > ___> > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list> > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions> To unsubscribe, > send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" _ See what you’re getting into…before you go there http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_preview_0507___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: 6.2 -- Linksys wusb11 wireless supported? (thank-you)
At Sun, 28 Jan 2007 it looks like Abdullah Ibn Hamad Al-Marri composed: > On 1/28/07, Bill-Schoolcraft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At Sun, 28 Jan 2007 it looks like Jan Henrik Sylvester composed: > > > > > The only usb wlan driver in FreeBSD is ural (Ralink RT2500USB). Also, ndis > > > (Windows driver wrapper) does not work for usb devices. Thus, you are out > > > of > > > luck. > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Open_Source_Wireless_Drivers > > > > > > (Some people seem to be working on porting rum and zyd from OpenBSD to > > > FreeBSD, but that won't help you, either.) > > > > Oh... that is very disappointing. > > > > I have my laptop triple booted with Windows-2000, Knoppix-5.1.1 and > > FreeBSD-6.2 and was going to show off FreeBSD's network speed as a > > comparison test to show my coworkers that Linux and 2000 is not the only > > option. > > > > :( > > > > -- > > Bill Schoolcraft <*> http://wiliweld.com > > ~ > > Check http://vitsch.net/bsd/atuwi/ My dear friend, thank you very much :) -- Bill Schoolcraft <*> http://wiliweld.com ~ "Unix is very simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity." (Dennis Ritchie) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank You and Mc OS games
On Sep 14, 2006, at 6:33 AM, hackmiester (Hunter Fuller) wrote: On 13 September 2006, at 15:25, Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: On the other hand, you might have heard that Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD. Although it is based on BSD, I don't think it's FreeBSD it was based on. I think it goes all the way back to 4.2BSD. Or something. They removed all the clear things you were talking about, slipstreamed a clear-looking GUI and put a price tag on it. The result is a pretty good desktop OS (for a commercial one that is). You might want to try it out. Take care! -- hackmiester (Hunter Fuller) yknow when you go to a party, and everyones hooked up except one guy and one girl and so they look at each other like.. do we have to? intel & nvidia must be lookin at each other like that right now Phone Voice: +1 251 589 6348 Fax: Call the voice number and ask. Email General chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Large attachments: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPS-related stuff: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM AIM: hackmiester1337 Skype: hackmiester31337 YIM: hackm1ester Gtalk: hackmiester MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Xfire: hackmiester Please look at Chuck's earlier post for more information as to the fact that FreeBSD is used in the Mac OSX Darwin kernel. As for how it was used, IIRC from what I've read, the Darwin kernel is a hybrid kernel made from the FreeBSD kernel and the Mach kernel from Carnegie Mellon. The Mach portion of the Darwin kernel provides a lot of the hardware support, resource management, and tie-ins (it's a micro-kernel), while the FreeBSD derived portion provides a lot of the BSD'ness for policies and the like (i.e. sockets, networking, permissions, etc). I obtained my info from an OS book and Wikipedia, if anyone's interested. -Garrett ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank You and Mc OS games
On Sep 13, 2006, at 10:11 PM, felix.schalck wrote: Hello in there, I'm kind of complicated person, so finding o good OS was really a pity for me. I googled around a lot, installed a lot and often get disappointed... until I discovered FreeBSD. Folks, this OS ist simply great because it is CLEAR. Clear Structure, clear Doc, clear Policy. But all the guys on this mailing list probably already know this... Now, i have one simple question related to this: where and whom can I tell THANK YOU ? GOOD WORK ? For providing such a great OS. Secondly: beeing miself an ex-gamer, I'm wondering if it is possible to run Mac OS games under FreeBSD. I found no solution on google, so probably there is some reason which cause it NOT working. Could someone just explain me what it this reason ? Thanks a lot, Felix Unfortunately this isn't really possible as a lot of games (I'm almost positive) have been ported to Cocoa, which is a proprietary UI only in use with Mac OSX. -Garrett ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank You and Mc OS games
On 13 September 2006, at 15:25, Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: On the other hand, you might have heard that Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD. Although it is based on BSD, I don't think it's FreeBSD it was based on. I think it goes all the way back to 4.2BSD. Or something. They removed all the clear things you were talking about, slipstreamed a clear-looking GUI and put a price tag on it. The result is a pretty good desktop OS (for a commercial one that is). You might want to try it out. Take care! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED]" -- hackmiester (Hunter Fuller) yknow when you go to a party, and everyones hooked up except one guy and one girl and so they look at each other like.. do we have to? intel & nvidia must be lookin at each other like that right now Phone Voice: +1 251 589 6348 Fax: Call the voice number and ask. Email General chat: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Large attachments: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SPS-related stuff: [EMAIL PROTECTED] IM AIM: hackmiester1337 Skype: hackmiester31337 YIM: hackm1ester Gtalk: hackmiester MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Xfire: hackmiester ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank You and Mc OS games
On Sep 13, 2006, at 2:16 PM, felix.schalck wrote: Do you think the interest that mac developpers pay on freebsd- stable is a good thing for FreeBSD ? I mean: for further developpement and general supporting of the OS ? Sure. But the effect is better observed by noticing which parts of one system are actually committed to the CVS (SVN, etc) repositories of another. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank You and Mc OS games
"Evolution of Mac OS X Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD): Part of the history of Mac OS X goes back to Berkeley Software Distributions (BSD) UNIX of the early seventies. Specifically, Mac OS X is based in part on BSD 4.4 Lite. On a system level, many of the design decisions are made to align with BSD-style UNIX systems. Most libraries and utilities are from FreeBSD, but some are derived from NetBSD. For future development, Mac OS X has adopted FreeBSD as a reference code base for BSD technology. Work is ongoing to synchronize all BSD tools and libraries more closely with the FreeBSD-stable branch. Thanks for your details, Do you think the interest that mac developpers pay on freebsd-stable is a good thing for FreeBSD ? I mean: for further developpement and general supporting of the OS ? regards, Felix ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank You and Mc OS games
On Sep 13, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: Unfortunately, Mac OS games just don't run on anything but Mac OS itself. Many Linux games and some windows ones run flawlessly on FreeBSD, though, with no or subtle performance penalties. For commercial game software, Andrew is certainly right that one it more likely to be able to run Linux versions. However, something like BZFlag runs on both MacOS X and FreeBSD, as do almost all of the Roguelike games (URogue, NetHack, Moria, Angband), and many other Open Source games. Felix, try looking under /usr/ports/games On the other hand, you might have heard that Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD. They removed all the clear things you were talking about, slipstreamed a clear-looking GUI and put a price tag on it. At the time MacOS X was first released, the majority of CVS tags in the kernel and library trees came from NetBSD, with FreeBSD being the second most common. At the present time, from http:// developer.apple.com/technotes/tn2002/tn2071.html: "Evolution of Mac OS X Berkeley Software Distribution (BSD): Part of the history of Mac OS X goes back to Berkeley Software Distributions (BSD) UNIX of the early seventies. Specifically, Mac OS X is based in part on BSD 4.4 Lite. On a system level, many of the design decisions are made to align with BSD-style UNIX systems. Most libraries and utilities are from FreeBSD, but some are derived from NetBSD. For future development, Mac OS X has adopted FreeBSD as a reference code base for BSD technology. Work is ongoing to synchronize all BSD tools and libraries more closely with the FreeBSD-stable branch. Mach: Although Mac OS X must credit BSD for most of the underlying levels of the operating system, Mac OS X also owes a major debt to Mach. The kernel is heavily influenced in its design philosophy by Carnegie Mellon's Mach project. The kernel is not a pure micro- kernel implementation, since the address space is shared with the BSD portion of the kernel and the I/O Kit." -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank You and Mc OS games
On 9/13/06, felix.schalck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello in there, I'm kind of complicated person, so finding o good OS was really a pity for me. I googled around a lot, installed a lot and often get disappointed... until I discovered FreeBSD. Folks, this OS ist simply great because it is CLEAR. Clear Structure, clear Doc, clear Policy. But all the guys on this mailing list probably already know this... Now, i have one simple question related to this: where and whom can I tell THANK YOU ? GOOD WORK ? For providing such a great OS. There are many places, but I'm sure you've been heard already. Thanks for your kind words. Secondly: being myself an ex-gamer, I'm wondering if it is possible to run Mac OS games under FreeBSD. I found no solution on google, so probably there is some reason which cause it NOT working. Could someone just explain me what it this reason ? Unfortunately, Mac OS games just don't run on anything but Mac OS itself. Many Linux games and some windows ones run flawlessly on FreeBSD, though, with no or subtle performance penalties. On the other hand, you might have heard that Mac OS X is based on FreeBSD. They removed all the clear things you were talking about, slipstreamed a clear-looking GUI and put a price tag on it. The result is a pretty good desktop OS (for a commercial one that is). You might want to try it out. Take care! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank You and Mc OS games
Hello in there, I'm kind of complicated person, so finding o good OS was really a pity for me. I googled around a lot, installed a lot and often get disappointed... until I discovered FreeBSD. Folks, this OS ist simply great because it is CLEAR. Clear Structure, clear Doc, clear Policy. But all the guys on this mailing list probably already know this... Now, i have one simple question related to this: where and whom can I tell THANK YOU ? GOOD WORK ? For providing such a great OS. Secondly: beeing miself an ex-gamer, I'm wondering if it is possible to run Mac OS games under FreeBSD. I found no solution on google, so probably there is some reason which cause it NOT working. Could someone just explain me what it this reason ? Thanks a lot, Felix ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank You For Contacting Hauntedfilm.com
Dear [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thank you for visiting our site, and for your interest in The Haunted Film. Your inquiry has been forwarded to our Site Administrator, who will read and respond to your message in a timely fashion. Please check in with our site as often as possible, as we are still expanding. Thank You, GhostAdmin Site Administrator, Hauntedfilm.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: root password (thank you)
Thank you Meijome,Valmont and all. It work !!! Thank you thank you... Norberto Meijome <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > what should I do? look up how to fix it, it's FAQ. "recover root password" or something like that. I'm pretty certain it's in that wonderful resource, the FreeBSD Handbook. > I can't sign in anyway to my server... ( u shouldn't be logging in as root from a remote location... but anyway)) - New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank-you for contacting the Astraware Newsletter Administration Team
Thank you for contacting the Astraware Newsletter Administration Team. If you are requesting to be unsubscribed, this will normally be actioned before our next newsletter is sent out. Please allow 24 to 48 hours for unsubscribe requests to take effect. If you have another question regarding our games, or do not wish to unsubscribe, please re-send your email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so our Support Team can respond directly. Club Astraware members are reminded that email preferences can be managed by logging into Club Astraware and following the "Your Communication Preferences" link. Kind regards, The Astraware Newsletter Team. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank you for your submission!
http://www.myclassics.com You e-mail is very important to us at MyClassics.com and we appreciate your taking time to e-mail us. Due to the large amount of e-mail we receive, our staff will review your e-mail shortly. Once again, Thank You! MyClassics.com Staff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/14/05 7:07:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> Why doesn't someone just answer the question? When Watson finally >> admitted publically that 5.x has networking issues it ended the last >> discussion. Just answer the question. > >Focusing on one cludge is meaningless - who cares if your network is a >little slow, or just slower than 4.x if disk or server apps can't keep >up with it anyway? 4.x, 5.0-2 and DragonFlyBSD all suffer from the GIANT >cludge. PHK has done a lot of work to resolve this cludge, all results >may not be in 5.3. > >> Why are you abandoning support for new hardware in 4.x >> when you admit that 5.x is not ready? It makes no sense at all. > >This is very obvious: There are limited resources: The time of the >developers is precious. Keeping an old system updated costs time and >takes away resources to address the remaining issues with the new version. - I'd question your categorization of 4.10 as an "old system". Its the current system that works optimally. Its only "old" because you've purposely antiquated it. If you read Mr Watson's explanation you'd know that its not a "kludge". There are fundamental algorithms in the O/S proper that are being redone. "networking performance" is not a kludge. Its fundamental to usability of the O/S as a server. I understand that resources are scarce, but you are risking losing a significant and important part of your user base for reasons that seem questionable. Linux is light years ahead in SMP and now you're risking your advantage in uniprocessor performance. You're risking disappearing from the map altogether, IMO. Thanks for answering the question. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why doesn't someone just answer the question? When Watson finally admitted publically that 5.x has networking issues it ended the last discussion. Just answer the question. Focusing on one cludge is meaningless - who cares if your network is a little slow, or just slower than 4.x if disk or server apps can't keep up with it anyway? 4.x, 5.0-2 and DragonFlyBSD all suffer from the GIANT cludge. PHK has done a lot of work to resolve this cludge, all results may not be in 5.3. Why are you abandoning support for new hardware in 4.x when you admit that 5.x is not ready? It makes no sense at all. This is very obvious: There are limited resources: The time of the developers is precious. Keeping an old system updated costs time and takes away resources to address the remaining issues with the new version. In every realworld project there comes a point where you have to release the project even if it is not perfect or near perfect. Microsoft do this all the time, and they can't even claim they don't have the money to boost development. At some point it becomes meaningless to try to keep the old version updated. The BSD-team - like it or not - has chosen that this point is about now. If you disagree you have the following choices: 1) Use something else, 2) fork your own project or 3) be happy with the decision and provide usefull feedback to the developers to help the progress of the development. Their motivations are not to the users, it clearly to some corporate sponsor agenda that has nothing to do with end users. Prove that - that statement is completely unbiased. Maybe read Eric Raymonds "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" although BSD is not so much a bazaar, development is most often triggered by scratching your own itch. Not the users' nor any corporation. All of the hackers lists have gone private, there is no "discussion" of what issues are important with the customer base. And all of you bubbleheads are just pleased as punch that your USB printer works. Its really quite unbelievable. There is no customer base - only users who choose to use BSD because they think it is the best choice for whateever their problem is. If you have a problem that *BSD does not solve for you, develop the solution or pay someone to do it or use whatever solves your problem and be happy with that solution. You have the freedom to choose. If you think FreeBSD is hostile to it's userbase, go have fun on [EMAIL PROTECTED] - this is supposed to be the user list, a catchup list for anything that doesn't fit on the other lists. It's fun :-) just don't propose any "improvement" unless you're a core-developer or you get flamed, burned and cut into little pieces. Cheers, Erik -- Ph: +34.666334818 web: www.locolomo.org S/MIME Certificate: http://www.locolomo.org/crt/2004071206.crt Subject ID: A9:76:7A:ED:06:95:2B:8D:48:97:CE:F2:3F:42:C8:F2:22:DE:4C:B9 Fingerprint: 4A:E8:63:38:46:F6:9A:5D:B4:DC:29:41:3F:62:D3:0A:73:25:67:C2 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Evading mailing list filters (Re: Thank you!)
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 05:36:25PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 1/14/05 2:05:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >It's too bad he's now choosing to be even more antisocial > >by changing his email address to avoid the procmail filters of those > >for whom his rantings have lost their amusementKris > > No, I've changed my address because the faggot at catwhisker.org keeps > removing me from the list. So, as I said, you're being antisocial. Thanks for confirming that you're deliberately evading the filters, in violation of the AOL terms of use. > Why are you abandoning support for new hardware in 4.x > when you admit that 5.x is not ready? It makes no sense at all. Jamie, you have a fundamental lack of understanding about how the FreeBSD community works. Unfortunately, this isn't something that can be explained to someone like you, because you have your own fixed ideas about how you think the world works and are not willing to listen to any explanations of how reality differs. Kris pgpJvaEjwhCyL.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/14/05 2:05:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >It's too bad he's now choosing to be even more antisocial >by changing his email address to avoid the procmail filters of those >for whom his rantings have lost their amusementKris No, I've changed my address because the faggot at catwhisker.org keeps removing me from the list. Why doesn't someone just answer the question? When Watson finally admitted publically that 5.x has networking issues it ended the last discussion. Just answer the question. Why are you abandoning support for new hardware in 4.x when you admit that 5.x is not ready? It makes no sense at all. Is there some payday down the road for someone? Volunteers or not, there is some agenda beyond whats being stated. FreeBSD "team" doesnt seem to give a rats butt about the user base. Their motivations are not to the users, it clearly to some corporate sponsor agenda that has nothing to do with end users. It USED to be to the user base. Now the user base is just a bunch of guinea pigs to test the "new" os which is still 2 years away. If you want to engage in a 3 year project to fix SMP, you dont subject the user base to 2 years of using a hacked up O/S in the process while abandoning the one that works. All of the hackers lists have gone private, there is no "discussion" of what issues are important with the customer base. And all of you bubbleheads are just pleased as punch that your USB printer works. Its really quite unbelievable. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/14/05 1:54:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >> So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the >> fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the >> slower, >> still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S >> that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. >> >>As was pretty clearly explained in previous threads, FreeBSD 5.x is >>slower than 4.x *at certain tasks under certain conditions* because >>it is rather considerably more featureful and complex than 4.x Unfortunately, one of those "tasks" is networking, which is required by every server that I know of. As Mr. Watson pointed out, 5.x has significant "per-packet" inefficiencies. Servers are judged by their capacity, which is a per-packet issue. Which means that, as a "server", 5.x is 25-30% less efficient than 4.x. Inefficient, for you high-schoolers, means "slower" in this context. It helps if you understand the big picture. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/14/05 1:46:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Jan 14, 2005, at 12:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have paid >> attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the fastest version >> available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs because it doesnt >> support the necessary chipsets, > >Let's pretend for a second that what you've claimed here is completely >accurate rather than exaggerated for rhetorical purposes. > >What are you doing to help, [EMAIL PROTECTED], or whatever your new handle for >today is? --- We don't have to "pretend", because Robert Watson, has outlined the issues with 5.x networking on this list, and he is in a position to know. The continued "what are you doing" is part of the problem. Its not reasonable to expect end users to support the OS as the chipset level. Thats why there is a core team. Tasks involving the inner guts of the O/S are beyond the capabilities of even the most talented of programmers without a significant learning curve. Its the kind of answer given by people with no answers. FreeBSD often uses its "centralized" decision making structure as the reason that they are superior. Yet when something doesn't work its someone else's problem. That, in a nutshell, is the problem. They beat their chests when applauded and point fingers when criticized. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Paul Schmehl writes: PS> Not to pick a nit...well, ok...to pick a nit...developers do not PS> support systems. Support organizations do. If you're going to be PS> using FreeBSD in a corporate environment then you need to find a PS> good *support* company that can backstop your local admins. *Then*, PS> if a problem arises, the support company can deal with the PS> developers. I'm not sure that this is much of an improvement. Still, one of the strengths of FreeBSD is that it rarely requires support. It's better to have reliable software with little or no support than it is to have unreliable software with superb support. But in situations where you _must_ have support, just in case, you're often forced into accepting the latter. This is one argument in favor of overpriced proprietary solutions like Windows: Windows may give you a lot more trouble, but at least you can get support--for a price, alas! PS> Linux is a good example. Entire companies have arisen merely for the PS> purpose of supporting the code that's written by Torvald's et. al. PS> Torvalds doesn't support "Linux". He works with the kernel PS> developers. Linux has the same problem as FreeBSD in this respect; all open-source projects do. Third-party support is certainly an improvement, but it's still not the same as proprietary support. One important difference is that you can sue a proprietary publisher if the software fails and he does not respect his support commitment; as publisher of the software, he can be _compelled_ to fix it or pay you lots and lots of money for failing (or refusing) to fix it. With third-party support, this doesn't quite work--you can sue for failure to perform on the support aspect, but you can't force the third party to provide a fix, because it's not their code. PS> Another example - I doubt a single developer who's ever written a PS> line of code for MS has handled a support call. I wouldn't expect PS> them to. They're developers. MS has an entire support team for that PS> (they can afford it, of course.) Some developers do occasionally intervene on support issues, but it is true that developers do not answer the phones and don't work on support calls as a general rule. That would be extremely expensive and inefficient from a business standpoint, and developers would probably leave the company as well (support is really boring). It would guarantee that problems actually get fixed, though, which is not the case with the current technical support arrangement (mostly based on trial and error--just as it is for most other companies). PS> So, complaining that the developers don't have the right attitude is PS> a bit off the mark. Find a local company that is *committed* to PS> supporting FreeBSD, and you will find the same level of support you PS> get from RH, MS, or anyone else in the business. The only difference PS> is, support is "disconnected" from development in the FreeBSD model PS> whereas it's one and the same company with MS. That's a critical difference, unfortunately. It breaks the chain of accountability. MS can _force_ problems to be fixed (and can be forced by others to fix problems) because it owns the code and the developers. Third-party support organizations can't do this. It's all a matter of business rather than technical issues, but it can't be ignored when choosing an OS for large-scale or mission-critical deployment. All of the open-source solutions suffer from this problem. Lack of accountability doesn't matter as long as the software shows no bugs, but it's a nightmare if something goes wrong--and the mere possibility of that happening can rule out an open-source solution for some applications. PS> Nor would any *decent* support company. True, but third-party support companies don't own the code. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
--On Friday, January 14, 2005 10:32:08 PM +0100 Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is, IMO, the single greatest obstacles to using FreeBSD in corporate and mission-critical environments, and it's the main reason why I'd be extremely hesitant about recommending FreeBSD in such environments, unless the organization in question has highly qualified in-house technicians to support the OS. You need someone to fix the OS urgently if a serious problem develops, and developers who get all pouty and stop answering the phone if you don't constantly say good things about their work are dangerously unreliable for support. Not to pick a nit...well, ok...to pick a nit...developers do not support systems. Support organizations do. If you're going to be using FreeBSD in a corporate environment then you need to find a good *support* company that can backstop your local admins. *Then*, if a problem arises, the support company can deal with the developers. Linux is a good example. Entire companies have arisen merely for the purpose of supporting the code that's written by Torvald's et. al. Torvalds doesn't support "Linux". He works with the kernel developers. Another example - I doubt a single developer who's ever written a line of code for MS has handled a support call. I wouldn't expect them to. They're developers. MS has an entire support team for that (they can afford it, of course.) So, complaining that the developers don't have the right attitude is a bit off the mark. Find a local company that is *committed* to supporting FreeBSD, and you will find the same level of support you get from RH, MS, or anyone else in the business. The only difference is, support is "disconnected" from development in the FreeBSD model whereas it's one and the same company with MS. Of course, this is true for several flavors of UNIX, not just FreeBSD. It tends to militate against open-source software generally. Proprietary solutions cost a fortune, but their publishers won't stomp off in a huff just when you need them most. Nor would any *decent* support company. Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Adjunct Information Security Officer The University of Texas at Dallas AVIEN Founding Member http://www.utdallas.edu ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Len Zettel writes: LZ> Better to expend resources on making 5.3 faster than 4.10 on all LZ> chipsets or retrofit 4.10 to the new ones? New OS versions should always provide either better functionality with the same performance, or better performance with the same functionality. Ideally they'd provide both better performance and better functionality. However, if a new release runs more slowly than an old release or drops functionality compared to an old release, it becomes difficult to justify "upgrading" to it. I moved to 5.3 originally because I thought I had a software problem on my server. After it turned out to be a hardware problem that required building a completely new server, I installed 5.3 simply because it was the latest available and it finally looked as though it might be stable. However, my system is not hurting for performance because it is lightly loaded in comparison with the amount of hardware horsepower it has available. On a system that is pegged to the wall most of the time, any reduction in performance is a serious problem. But then again, I know from my experience in optimizing systems that, if you are so close to the wall that you can't afford even a tiny drop in performance, you need more hardware, anyway (because an average load of, say, 99% almost invariably means many peak loads that completely overload the existing system, unless your system has an extraordinarily constant load profile). -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fac> The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have Fac> paid attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the Fac> fastest version available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs Fac> because it doesnt support the necessary chipsets ... While I'll grant that this is an inconvenience, it doesn't seem to be any different from any other software publisher's policies. Most publishers will stop improving an older release family at some point in favor of a new release family. There are both good and not-so-good reasons for such policies. One good reason is that trying to continually move forward with two independent release families requires nearly twice the resources of a single family, and spreads development resources quite thin. One not-so-good reason is that old release families aren't as much fun to code for programmers as new families are, and so developers like to find reasons to abandon them. I have the same problem with other operating systems, and with other applications. My old copy of Windows NT Server won't run on or support many modern hardware configurations--that's what forced me to install Windows XP on another machine. Worse yet, I can't recycle the NT machine because some of the essential applications and hardware I use have been abandoned in Windows XP. New versions of Windows server OSes cost far more than the (already expensive) old versions, too. I don't see how this is any better than the situation with FreeBSD. Fac> ... AND, that freebsd "people" would rather ridicule people that Fac> ask why than fix things. People who work on FreeBSD have a rather puerile tendency to push away anyone who says anything they don't want to hear--I'll certainly grant that. While one can understand a certain lack of enthusiasm from a volunteer organization (they receive nothing for their efforts, so one can hardly expect them to jump on every problem and work three shifts to fix it), actively rejecting anyone who doesn't say nice things is a bit immature. This is, IMO, the single greatest obstacles to using FreeBSD in corporate and mission-critical environments, and it's the main reason why I'd be extremely hesitant about recommending FreeBSD in such environments, unless the organization in question has highly qualified in-house technicians to support the OS. You need someone to fix the OS urgently if a serious problem develops, and developers who get all pouty and stop answering the phone if you don't constantly say good things about their work are dangerously unreliable for support. Fortunately, FreeBSD is extremely reliable. But if you are using it for mission-critical production, you need to hire someone who can fix the OS on the spot if something does go wrong, because you probably won't be able to get adequate support for it from a third party. Of course, this is true for several flavors of UNIX, not just FreeBSD. It tends to militate against open-source software generally. Proprietary solutions cost a fortune, but their publishers won't stomp off in a huff just when you need them most. Fac> So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by Fac> the fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to Fac> use the slower, still-under-development 5.x. Which seems Fac> counterproductive for an O/S that is trying to establish itself as Fac> a choice as a server platform. If you are using the fastest server motherboards, then you can afford to run an operating system that is a tiny bit slower ... assuming that this is only a temporary situation, of course. If 5.x _never_ achieves parity with 4.x for performance, that's a much more serious problem. New release families should always be more performant than old release families (and don't bother to tell me that it can't be done, because I know it _can_ be done). One reason I've moved away from Windows is that it has consistently bloated over its lifetime, making every new release slower than its predecessors, and I'm not getting enough with each new release to justify the loss of performance. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Thank you!
>-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-freebsd->[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 11:43 AM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Thank you! > >In a message dated 1/13/05 9:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >>Someone who begins with their first post on the questions list with >>invective and insults instead of asking a question will, not surprisingly, >>not receive much positive response. People here are interested in >>getting questions answered and problems solved. They are not >>interested in responding to juvenile attacks >-- >You really don't know what you're talking about Jerry (as usual), so >why make comments when you never seem to understand the context? >He asked a question and the response was "why dont you donate your >hardware to a freebsd developer". > >What's "juvenile" is that all of you "guys" would rather spend your time >insulting people than finding solutions to problems. Thats what kids do. >___ >freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" Gary, I sent this to your other address as well because I know that you said you don't check your aol one much. I just have a small personal favor to ask. Could you please just stick to one email address? On the subject of FreeBSD I'd like to be able to filter out your replies, since you don't really add much to the discussion (unlike the great one you had on that other forum about circumventing New York Cities residence tax, you had a lot of very useful information there), but I still need to be able to receive email from some members of aol Thanks in advance ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have paid attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the fastest version available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs because it doesnt support the necessary chipsets, AND, that freebsd "people" would rather ridicule people that ask why than fix things. So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the slower, still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. Dear Mr X. You might be aware of DragonFlyBSD - it was forked from FBSD 4.x due to disagreements on the path of development for the 5.x branch developing SMP support among other things. The founder Mathew Dillon believed his way was the better and disagreements with the FBSD development team eventually led to the fork. In july 2004 v.1.0 was released. I don't know about performance DFBSD vs FBSD5 vs FBSD4, and I don't know about hardware support, in fact I don't know much about DFBSD apart from the name. But, if you like FBSD4, then DFBSD may be a viable alternative you should try out. However, the develpment team and user base is much smaller than that of FBSD, you need to be much more oriented at contributing to the project if you want progress to be made. I suggest you give it a try, make your choice, be it FBSD4/5 or DFBSD. Both DFBSD and FBSD as you know is delivered "AS IS" granting you only the right to be happy. Cheers, Erik -- Ph: +34.666334818 web: www.locolomo.org S/MIME Certificate: http://www.locolomo.org/crt/2004071206.crt Subject ID: A9:76:7A:ED:06:95:2B:8D:48:97:CE:F2:3F:42:C8:F2:22:DE:4C:B9 Fingerprint: 4A:E8:63:38:46:F6:9A:5D:B4:DC:29:41:3F:62:D3:0A:73:25:67:C2 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
> > ... Much misc drivel excised. > > > > rather ridicule people that ask why than fix things. > > > > > > So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the > > > fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the > > > slower, > > > still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S > > > that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. > >=20 > > Not necessarily. The interesting question hasn't been addressed yet. > > Is 5.3 on its fastest supported chipset faster or slower than 4.10 on > > its fastest supported chipset? I would be willing to guess that it is. > > Then the whole thing gets down to a difference of opinion about > > development priorities in the face of limited resources. > > Better to expend resources on making 5.3 faster than 4.10 on all > > chipsets or retrofit 4.10 to the new ones? > > Mr AOL Troll also likes to ignore emails refuting his chosen > world-view (e.g. earlier emails on the topic he's trolling about > above), so he should just be ignored since meaningful discourse isn't > possible. It's too bad he's now choosing to be even more antisocial > by changing his email address to avoid the procmail filters of those > for whom his rantings have lost their amusement, although this just > makes his behaviour more obvious to other bystanders. Yah, sorry I responded, but sometimes it gets to be too much. jerry > > Kris > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You really don't know what you're talking about Jerry (as usual), so why make comments when you never seem to understand the context? He asked a question and the response was "why dont you donate your hardware to a freebsd developer". What's "juvenile" is that all of you "guys" would rather spend your time insulting people than finding solutions to problems. Thats what kids do. Hold it right there bucko. What comes to mind here is, when people point one finger at someone else, there are three more pointing back at you. The only one who dosent know what they are talking about here, would be you. And, at this point, I would surmise, it's you who's trolling for a flame war, more than boris. I cite: http://www.mail-archive.com/freebsd-questions@freebsd.org/msg88107.html In which: A) The developers, people who DONATE their TIME to develop something available for FREE were called "stupid", for what? The crime of working on 5.3, the future, as opposed to DROPPING EVERYTHING IN THE WHOLE damned world to fix ONE PERSON's minor issue. B) Ted Mittelstaedt's comment of "Donate your hardware" is simple to understand, if you have neurons even capable of firing. As a matter of fact, you convienently leave out what others have mentioned, if it dosent work, you can loan or donate hardware. And, what's more, everyone else understands that, except for two people: You and Boris. The only people doing any of the insulting, are: You and Boris. The only person calling anyone names, a truly childish behavior in its own right are...three guesses... YEP. You and Boris. Back when I discovered Free Operating systems, I came to the understanding, that, if something dosent work, you have some options: 1) Fix it yourself. 2) Get someone as much tangible data as possible so the problem can be fixed. 3) Loan or donate some of the offending hardware to a developer so it can be fixed. Numerous issues in the early days of LinuxPPC were fixed this way. Especially in the area of mac's transitioning from oldworld to newworld ROM booting structures. So, please, spare us your sermon on the mount, about how FreeBSD has lost its way, about how it sucks, its not number one in your eyes, we know, we heard you the first 32,734,129,121,996 times. It's a free OS, with no warranty. Boris's frustration would have been better channeled into the following phrase: "What can I do to get you the information you need to fix, or help me fix the issue" But, instead, he chose to call people stupid, insult them for the work they are trying to accomplish, and insulting them for not dropping their lives, and other things to fix his problem. Boo hoo. Ill dig you a trench, and you can then cry me a river. All support systems have cracks. And people sometimes slip through. Thats a fact of life. One Boris, and it seems, you need to come to grips with. No machine, be it one that supports users, or one that runs applications are perfect. They break, they can error. In such cases, you have a number of options: 1) Do what you can to fix it. 2) Go elsewhere. barring those two options, would you please, please please stop being a sock puppet for Boris? It's old, annoying, and the oldest doom and gloom cry in the world. -- Duo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 01:05:40PM +, Len Zettel wrote: > On Friday 14 January 2005 05:56 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 1/13/05 11:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > BS> Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies > > BS> that need support for the latest hardware. > > > > >It's not a question of latest, it's a question of which hardware. > > >FreeBSD, like all operating systems, targets a broad but not universal > > >user base, and so the mix of hardware that it supports doesn't cover > > >every conceivable device, although it will naturally overlap for the > > >most part with any other OS. > > >For example, given the predominance of FreeBSD as a heavy-duty server > > > > -- > > You clearly haven't been paying attention > > > > The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have paid > > attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the fastest version > > available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs because it doesnt > > support the necessary chipsets, AND, that freebsd "people" would > > rather ridicule people that ask why than fix things. > > > > So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the > > fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the > > slower, > > still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S > > that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. > > Not necessarily. The interesting question hasn't been addressed yet. > Is 5.3 on its fastest supported chipset faster or slower than 4.10 on > its fastest supported chipset? I would be willing to guess that it is. > Then the whole thing gets down to a difference of opinion about > development priorities in the face of limited resources. > Better to expend resources on making 5.3 faster than 4.10 on all > chipsets or retrofit 4.10 to the new ones? Mr AOL Troll also likes to ignore emails refuting his chosen world-view (e.g. earlier emails on the topic he's trolling about above), so he should just be ignored since meaningful discourse isn't possible. It's too bad he's now choosing to be even more antisocial by changing his email address to avoid the procmail filters of those for whom his rantings have lost their amusement, although this just makes his behaviour more obvious to other bystanders. Kris pgpDHLAZW27hY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Thank you!
> In a message dated 1/13/05 9:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >Someone who begins with their first post on the questions list with > >invective and insults instead of asking a question will, not surprisingly, > >not receive much positive response. People here are interested in > >getting questions answered and problems solved. They are not > >interested in responding to juvenile attacks > -- > You really don't know what you're talking about Jerry (as usual), so > why make comments when you never seem to understand the context? > He asked a question and the response was "why dont you donate your > hardware to a freebsd developer". He preceded and followed his questin with insults and that was the bulk of his post. The response of suggestion he contribute is the normal and reasonable one for a volunteer supported system such as FreeBSD. Your intent to spread ignorance on the issue is unhelful. Your calling names is wasted on some of us and likely to get negative responses from others. > > What's "juvenile" is that all of you "guys" would rather spend your time > insulting people than finding solutions to problems. Thats what kids do. Spoken like a pro. We are waiting for you to contribute a solution. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
That always cheerful and bright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the slower, still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. As was pretty clearly explained in previous threads, FreeBSD 5.x is slower than 4.x *at certain tasks under certain conditions* because it is rather considerably more featureful and complex than 4.x (duh?). It has also been said to be rather faster than 4.x at certain other tasks under other conditions, so your mantra of "5.x is slow" is really growing a bit thin. If the rough spots bother you, please contribute patches, contribute money, contribute hardware, or... at the very least, stop changing your address so I can plonk you once and for all without resorting to nuking the entire aol domain. 8-P I've been using FreeBSD since 2.1 (has it really been 8 years?) because the development seems so consistently focused on being the "best" as measured by solidity, consistency, standards conformance and clarity of component boundaries rather than "best" as in slickest-looking or fastest through the gate. If speed comes by cutting corners, bending rules or mixing up things that are rightly separated, I don't want it, thanks anyway. Many, many thanks to all who contribute work, or money, or sage advice, or the very least, a bit of good humor to this project and list. -- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) Library Interchange Network (LINK) , (608) 266-6348 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
> > In a message dated 1/13/05 11:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > BS> Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies > BS> that need support for the latest hardware. > > >It's not a question of latest, it's a question of which hardware. > >FreeBSD, like all operating systems, targets a broad but not universal > >user base, and so the mix of hardware that it supports doesn't cover > >every conceivable device, although it will naturally overlap for the > >most part with any other OS. > >For example, given the predominance of FreeBSD as a heavy-duty server > > -- > You clearly haven't been paying attention No, you clearly haven't been paying attention! The entire point of this _extended_ "discussion" is that people who begin their posts with ridicule and name calling are not likely to get any positive response - regardless of their high opinions of themselves. Though, some people have repeatedly told you that, for their applications, FreeBSD works best and for some situations it does not, you just want to harp on a narrow item that no-one disputes. Then you pretend that you are revealing something to the world for which the world responds, 'duh'. You completely ignore the point that in the type of environment that FreeBSD is created and used, which is non-paid volunteers making solutions to their own problems and then sharing them free of charge with the general community, work gets done on what those unpaid volunteers are able to work on with what resources they have. In that type of environment it is very reasonable, normal, to say, OK. If you are having a problem with that point, do some work to fix it and submit the improvement to be included in the whole. The volunteers who are working on actually contributing to the project rather than just shooting off their mouths trying to tear it down, do not have the resources to buy every piece of quality or junk that is out there and do development for it. They have to work on their own stuff. Further, if a vendor does not choose to help the project function on their own piece of quality or junk hardware, there is very little the volunteers can do to make them do it. Note, it has nothing to do with how hot the piece of quality or junk is. It has to do with if the unpaid volunteers, in their spare time, can undertake to do some work to support that piece of quality or junk. Sure, some enlightened companies permit some of their staff to work on relevant issues on company time. That doesn't change anything. They are still only doing work on what is useful to the employer and it is supplied to the general community, gratis. They are not working to market a competing OS. So, the response you have repeatedly received, that if you cannot make a useful contribution or add to the useful pool of information for those actually freely making useful contributions, then your behavior is a drag on the community. Quit pretending you have anything useful to say and let the real people get back to work without having to endure your trash. Continually trying to drag the community down without making any useful contribution is the worst of being a troll - or as I previously commented, I hate to denigrate the good name of troll in this case. > > The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have paid > attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the fastest version > available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs because it doesnt > support the necessary chipsets, AND, that freebsd "people" would > rather ridicule people that ask why than fix things. > > So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the > fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the > slower, > still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S > that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. Nobody is establishing anything. FreeBSD is created by volunteers who want to have it to use and they kindly make their efforts available to the world free of charge.Because of this, others, finding needs, add their own contributions because they want that correction made or that ability added. Some of us just sit our here and gratefully eat up the good stuff and hope it keeps on coming - maybe post an occasional suggestion or answer to a question. It is as simple and straight forward as that. People who discover and like it, tell others who are free to like it or not to like it and are invited to contribute if they are able. But, useless diatribes, belittling and name calling is unwelcome. So, just changing your Email address makes no difference. The behavior remains unhelpful, unnecessary and better off undone. Trying to tie it to some supposed technical issue changes nothing. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing li
Re: Thank you!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 1/14/05 1:07:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. Not necessarily. The interesting question hasn't been addressed yet. Is 5.3 on its fastest supported chipset faster or slower than 4.10 on its fastest supported chipset? Thats a sad commentary, if the "new" version of FreeBSD is 5% faster on a hardware platform that should be 30% faster. Is that the goal you seek? so you have to pay 50% more to get the same performance on 5.3. Thats quite a selling point! Is that you [EMAIL PROTECTED], whats TM for btw, Troll Master? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Jan 14, 2005, at 12:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have paid attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the fastest version available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs because it doesnt support the necessary chipsets, Let's pretend for a second that what you've claimed here is completely accurate rather than exaggerated for rhetorical purposes. What are you doing to help, [EMAIL PROTECTED], or whatever your new handle for today is? You've got access to the FreeBSD source code, Intel publishes lots of data about their chipsets, so between the two, you've got everything you need to change FreeBSD to work on the specific motherboards you care so much about. Either you make positive contributions, or you choose not to-- in which case you are wasting your time. AND, that freebsd "people" would rather ridicule people that ask why than fix things. The overwhelming majority of people on the FreeBSD lists are polite and helpful, but some people are willing to make exceptions for trolls. If you don't like being ridiculed, try doing something constructive for a change and compare the response you get to your current approach. Even if you fail to learn anything, you will at least benefit by acting like a productive human being for the duration. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/13/05 9:05:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Someone who begins with their first post on the questions list with >invective and insults instead of asking a question will, not surprisingly, >not receive much positive response. People here are interested in >getting questions answered and problems solved. They are not >interested in responding to juvenile attacks -- You really don't know what you're talking about Jerry (as usual), so why make comments when you never seem to understand the context? He asked a question and the response was "why dont you donate your hardware to a freebsd developer". What's "juvenile" is that all of you "guys" would rather spend your time insulting people than finding solutions to problems. Thats what kids do. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/14/05 8:12:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > People on the FreeBSD and Debian GNU/Linux mailing lists are very > kind and help you in any case, if you ask questions politely and you > have searched and read tha manuals first. > So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against > the Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. I have never heard The "war" is not against anyone, particularly against commercial O/Ss. The truth is that FreeBSD has lost their way. They started out with a focus on Intel platforms and a solid and dedicated development team. Now they have lost some of their top talent in development, and they are trying to support too many platforms with a skeleton force. They simply are not in position to compete in a "war" of any kind. The "war" should be to do what you do better than anyone else, however small the niche. FreeBSD has lost sight of what it wants to be, through a lack of focus and conviction, by spreading themselves too thin over too many platforms. Once FreeBSD was THE choice on an i386 platform. Its now in danger of becoming just another cool O/S, which is a darned shame. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/14/05 1:07:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >> still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S >> that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. > >Not necessarily. The interesting question hasn't been addressed yet. >Is 5.3 on its fastest supported chipset faster or slower than 4.10 on >its fastest supported chipset? Thats a sad commentary, if the "new" version of FreeBSD is 5% faster on a hardware platform that should be 30% faster. Is that the goal you seek? so you have to pay 50% more to get the same performance on 5.3. Thats quite a selling point! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Friday 14 January 2005 05:56 pm, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 1/13/05 11:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > BS> Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies > BS> that need support for the latest hardware. > > >It's not a question of latest, it's a question of which hardware. > >FreeBSD, like all operating systems, targets a broad but not universal > >user base, and so the mix of hardware that it supports doesn't cover > >every conceivable device, although it will naturally overlap for the > >most part with any other OS. > >For example, given the predominance of FreeBSD as a heavy-duty server > > -- > You clearly haven't been paying attention > > The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have paid > attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the fastest version > available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs because it doesnt > support the necessary chipsets, AND, that freebsd "people" would > rather ridicule people that ask why than fix things. > > So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the > fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the > slower, > still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S > that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. Not necessarily. The interesting question hasn't been addressed yet. Is 5.3 on its fastest supported chipset faster or slower than 4.10 on its fastest supported chipset? I would be willing to guess that it is. Then the whole thing gets down to a difference of opinion about development priorities in the face of limited resources. Better to expend resources on making 5.3 faster than 4.10 on all chipsets or retrofit 4.10 to the new ones? -LenZ- > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
In a message dated 1/13/05 11:27:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BS> Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies BS> that need support for the latest hardware. >It's not a question of latest, it's a question of which hardware. >FreeBSD, like all operating systems, targets a broad but not universal >user base, and so the mix of hardware that it supports doesn't cover >every conceivable device, although it will naturally overlap for the >most part with any other OS. >For example, given the predominance of FreeBSD as a heavy-duty server -- You clearly haven't been paying attention The entire point of this extended discussion, for those who have paid attention, is that FreeBSD 4.x, which is admittedly the fastest version available, DOES NOT work with intel's fastest CPUs because it doesnt support the necessary chipsets, AND, that freebsd "people" would rather ridicule people that ask why than fix things. So your claim that its a "heavy-duty server" platform is tainted by the fact that in order to use the fastest server Mobos, you have to use the slower, still-under-development 5.x. Which seems counterproductive for an O/S that is trying to establish itself as a choice as a server platform. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Ramiro Aceves writes: RA> I do not like to start wars among free OSes, I enjoy fighting the RA> Bill OSes. There are plenty of challenging video games on the market if you like to fight. RA> For me, making the war against Bill OSes means using Free Software RA> OSes (Debian, Gentoo, FreeBSD...)instead Bill's one. Everybody RA> is free to use the OS he like, so I choose FreeBSD or Linux simply RA> because for me they are better. I also try to evangelize my friends RA> here in my city to use free software, but at the moment, it has been RA> a difficult task. Perhaps if you used something other than "let's make war against Bill OSes" as an argument, you might find the task less difficult. RA> By making the war, as I stated above, I mean using FreeSoftware RA> instead propietary one. I prefer to use whatever is best for the job. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005, lord grinny wrote: Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ramiro Aceves writes: RA> So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the RA> Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. Professionals and serious amateurs in IT never wage "wars" at all. Don't they?? Then what are all the law suits about? It should be noted here, that, by and large for the most part, lawsuits are rarely waged by the folks actually doing the toiling. The people who pour their blood, sweat, tears into the work being fought over, are rarely the ones who initiate serious nuclear level legal action. People with a passion for what they do, are typically consumed by their passion for it. I should know. I love any damned thing with a circuit. An example is the SCO suit. This is a purely greed motivated lawsuit. No serious I.T. Professional, one who actually gives a damn about the profession, is behind it really. Sure, there are lines of debate. But, in my experience, serious IT folks just love playing with their toys. They could care less about waging wars for money in the typical business fashion. This is why software patent debates are all the rage, atm. It inhibits being able to make new toys from old ones. Imagine child A, suing child B, because child B has built something with his lego's that vaguely resembles something that child A built. The vague resemblence in this case, is that blocks were stuck together to make something. That's a very vanilla way to sum it all up. Generic, if you will. But, in the end, I just want to point out, legal wars arent started very often by people who sign up for mailing lists such as these. They are generally started and waged by the people wishing to make money off the work of people who sign up for mailing lists such as these. It's an important distinction, and one that shouldnt be lost in the mix of voices. More to the point, I think, by and large, religious OS wars are what you expect from packet kiddies sitting in #warez on some IRC network. It certianly dosent belong here. And, such folks are not I.T. professionals. This is a list, where, I have seen, you are treated according to how you act. If you act like a child, you will be treated as such. No war, no agression. The person who started this thread, acted like a crying little child, because, he couldnt have what he wanted, when he wanted, and how he wanted it. FreeBSD is not the 4 seasons. It's a hostel. You get what you pay for. And, how you carry yourself, is going to reflect on how you are percieved. If you cannot deal with that, then, you maybe need to find somewhere else to go. FreeBSD won't die because Boris can't get his motherboard to work. FreeBSD will however, suffer if it tolerates people like Boris, who after not getting the answer they wanted, troll and instigate flame wars. It's why its always safest to give a little giggle, and move on. No flame war needed. =) Just my $0.02. =) -- Duo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
OK we get it you don't like freeBSD. Now shut up and quit wasting everyones bandwidth On Jan 13, 2005, at 7:40 PM, Boris Spirialitious wrote: Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies that need support for the latest hardware. Thank you for informing me. Boris Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product this linux! Glad you're happy. Sorry you can not seem to comprehend a user volunteer supported system. Bye, jerry Boris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
martin hudec wrote: MH> Hello, MH> MH> On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 12:13:04PM +0100 or thereabouts, RA>>miro Aceves wrote: MH> RA>>If you argue that, you do not know Linux well. When I speak about Linux, RA>>I mean Debian or Gentoo. I do not think that they are chaothic or RA>>intended for desktop. Debian put all the pieces together in one OS that RA>>is in order and works nicely. Gentoo portage philosophy is similiar to RA>>FreeBSD ports. MH> MH> MH>Debian and Gentoo distributions are not chaotic, but I think that MH>Gentoo is primarily oriented for desktop, although one can use it MH>happily as server. Gentoo portage is inspired by ports :). MH> MH> Ok, you are right. RA>>So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the RA>>Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. I have never heard a bad RA>>word about FreeBSD on the Linux lists. MH> MH> MH> What is meaning of your words? I am missing the point. You are asking MH> why is someone starting the war? And on other hand you say that we MH> should fight against Microsoft OSes? This kind of hatred is in my Sorry, my english is so bad that I can not say everything I think. I do not like to start wars among free OSes, I enjoy fighting the Bill OSes. MH> humble opinion sign of inmaturity. It is really so hard to respect MH> others? To respect their choices, reasons? Why? If one could invest MH> his time he puts into hatred aimed towards Microsoft, if one could MH> invest it to further promote/develop his OS of choice instead, then it MH> would definitely be a better world for my servers and desktops to live MH> in. Don't you think? For me, making the war against Bill OSes means using Free Software OSes (Debian, Gentoo, FreeBSD...)instead Bill's one. Everybody is free to use the OS he like, so I choose FreeBSD or Linux simply because for me they are better. I also try to evangelize my friends here in my city to use free software, but at the moment, it has been a difficult task. MH> MH> RA>>I hate the following wars: RA>>BSD license vs GPL license RA>>Linux vs xBSD RA>>GNOME vs KDE RA>>bash vs tcsh RA>>text apps vs X apps RA>>CUPS vs lpr MH> MH> MH>I just add: Windows vs Linux/Unix. MH> MH> RA>>I think we should coopeRA>>te instead of fighting. Indeed, BSD code is on RA>>Linux OSes, and GNU software is on FreeBSD ports.. etc... MHMH> MHMH> MHMH>If you are really that nice, why are you inducing others to make war MHMH>with Windows? :) By making the war, as I stated above, I mean using FreeSoftware instead propietary one. MHMH> MHMH> MHMH>Cheers, MHMH> MHMH>Martin MHMH> Thanks for your response. Ramiro. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Friday 14 January 2005 05:13 am, Ramiro Aceves wrote: > Hello FreeBSD Friends. > > I have just arrived to the FreeBSD world. I am not an expert on > anything, I am only a computer fan and use my computer mainly for my > engineering work and hobbies (amateur radio, photography, astronomy, > etc.). I come from a happy Debian GNU/Linux experience. I paid > attention on FreeBSD when reading a Linux magazine and installed it > two months ago. I really do not have any important reasons to change, > but I admit that I am impressed and I like FreeBSD very much, and my > interest on it is incresing everyday. I like its centralized > development and its separation between the OS and the ports. Perhaps > one day I will do the change, but I first must feel safe and > confortable with the FreeBSD, the same that when I changed from > WinDog to Linux. > > I do not like linux-FreeBSD wars. I hate them. Both are good > operating systems with their pros and cons. Many of you tell that > Linux is a desktop OS, and that it is a chaothic OS. I do not agree > with that, and If you argue that, you do not know Linux well. When I > speak about Linux, I mean Debian or Gentoo. I do not think that they > are chaothic or intended for desktop. Debian put all the pieces > together in one OS that is in order and works nicely. Gentoo portage > philosophy is similiar to FreeBSD ports. > > People on the FreeBSD and Debian GNU/Linux mailing lists are very > kind and help you in any case, if you ask questions politely and you > have searched and read tha manuals first. > So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against > the Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. I have never heard When you focus against anything, you risk losing focus on constructive goals. > a bad word about FreeBSD on the Linux lists. Indeed, I think that > most of Linux people do not even know thet FreeBSD exists, some of > them think that it is another Linux distribution. On the oposite Yes, there's even a hardware vendor (http://www.sub300.com/) that lists FreeBSD under "Other Linux Distribution." > side, I have heard several people hating Linux on this list, even > comparing it with WinDogs :-( > > > I hate the following wars: > > BSD license vs GPL license > Linux vs xBSD > GNOME vs KDE > bash vs tcsh > text apps vs X apps > CUPS vs lpr Did you forget Linux vs Gnu Linux? ;-) > > I think we should cooperate instead of fighting. Indeed, BSD code is > on Linux OSes, and GNU software is on FreeBSD ports.. etc... > > Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english. > > Just my 2 euro cents. > > Ramiro Aceves. (Spain) > Best regards, Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Friday 14 January 2005 06:43 am, Anthony Atkielski wrote: > lord grinny writes: > > lg> Don't they?? Then what are all the law suits about? > > Business. I respectfully disagree. Business is people. People who do business well abhor lawsuits. "Lawyers are like nuclear missiles -- they have theirs, so we have ours. But once you use them, they f**k everything up." -- Larry the Liquidator (Danny Devito's role in "Other Peoples Money"): Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On 2005-01-14 13:34, Anthony Atkielski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Ramiro Aceves writes: >> So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the >> Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. > > Professionals and serious amateurs in IT never wage "wars" at all. Well said. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 04:41:03AM -0800 or thereabouts, lord grinny wrote: > Don't they?? Then what are all the law suits about? Simple, dear Watson. About human stupidity and greed. Cheers, Martin -- martin hudec * 421 907 303 393 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.aeternal.net "Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" pgpZZv3ZscJuC.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Thank you!
lord grinny writes: lg> Don't they?? Then what are all the law suits about? Business. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Anthony Atkielski wrote: >Ramiro Aceves writes: > >RA> So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the >RA> Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. > >Professionals and serious amateurs in IT never wage "wars" at all. > > > Don't they?? Then what are all the law suits about? GRINNY __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Ramiro Aceves writes: RA> So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the RA> Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. Professionals and serious amateurs in IT never wage "wars" at all. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Hello, On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 12:13:04PM +0100 or thereabouts, Ramiro Aceves wrote: > If you argue that, you do not know Linux well. When I speak about Linux, > I mean Debian or Gentoo. I do not think that they are chaothic or > intended for desktop. Debian put all the pieces together in one OS that > is in order and works nicely. Gentoo portage philosophy is similiar to > FreeBSD ports. Debian and Gentoo distributions are not chaotic, but I think that Gentoo is primarily oriented for desktop, although one can use it happily as server. Gentoo portage is inspired by ports :). > So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the > Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. I have never heard a bad > word about FreeBSD on the Linux lists. What is meaning of your words? I am missing the point. You are asking why is someone starting the war? And on other hand you say that we should fight against Microsoft OSes? This kind of hatred is in my humble opinion sign of inmaturity. It is really so hard to respect others? To respect their choices, reasons? Why? If one could invest his time he puts into hatred aimed towards Microsoft, if one could invest it to further promote/develop his OS of choice instead, then it would definitely be a better world for my servers and desktops to live in. Don't you think? > I hate the following wars: > BSD license vs GPL license > Linux vs xBSD > GNOME vs KDE > bash vs tcsh > text apps vs X apps > CUPS vs lpr I just add: Windows vs Linux/Unix. > I think we should cooperate instead of fighting. Indeed, BSD code is on > Linux OSes, and GNU software is on FreeBSD ports.. etc... If you are really that nice, why are you inducing others to make war with Windows? :) Cheers, Martin -- martin hudec * 421 907 303 393 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.aeternal.net "Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" pgpttN2k01kbt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Thank you!
Ramiro Aceves wrote: Hello FreeBSD Friends. I have just arrived to the FreeBSD world. I am not an expert on anything, I am only a computer fan and use my computer mainly for my engineering work and hobbies (amateur radio, photography, astronomy, etc.). I come from a happy Debian GNU/Linux experience. I paid attention on FreeBSD when reading a Linux magazine and installed it two months ago. I really do not have any important reasons to change, but I admit that I am impressed and I like FreeBSD very much, and my interest on it is incresing everyday. I like its centralized development and its separation between the OS and the ports. Perhaps one day I will do the change, but I first must feel safe and confortable with the FreeBSD, the same that when I changed from WinDog to Linux. I do not like linux-FreeBSD wars. I hate them. Both are good operating systems with their pros and cons. Many of you tell that Linux is a desktop OS, and that it is a chaothic OS. I do not agree with that, and If you argue that, you do not know Linux well. When I speak about Linux, I mean Debian or Gentoo. I do not think that they are chaothic or intended for desktop. Debian put all the pieces together in one OS that is in order and works nicely. Gentoo portage philosophy is similiar to FreeBSD ports. People on the FreeBSD and Debian GNU/Linux mailing lists are very kind and help you in any case, if you ask questions politely and you have searched and read tha manuals first. So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. I have never heard a bad word about FreeBSD on the Linux lists. Indeed, I think that most of Linux people do not even know thet FreeBSD exists, some of them think that it is another Linux distribution. On the oposite side, I have heard several people hating Linux on this list, even comparing it with WinDogs :-( I hate the following wars: BSD license vs GPL license Linux vs xBSD GNOME vs KDE bash vs tcsh text apps vs X apps CUPS vs lpr I think we should cooperate instead of fighting. Indeed, BSD code is on Linux OSes, and GNU software is on FreeBSD ports.. etc... Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english. Just my 2 euro cents. FWIW I share your sentiments. FreeBSD absolutely rocks IMO, but so does OpenBSD and Gentoo. I use all three in areas I've felt play to their particular strengths and personalities. Having been on this list for many months now, I have also observed that there are plenty of other multi-platform folks hanging out here. I think the anti-Linux crowd is in the minority (though occasionally quite vocal). Most of us have enough "love" to share across multiple operating systems. Er...except Windows...that just sucks :) EB ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Hello FreeBSD Friends. I have just arrived to the FreeBSD world. I am not an expert on anything, I am only a computer fan and use my computer mainly for my engineering work and hobbies (amateur radio, photography, astronomy, etc.). I come from a happy Debian GNU/Linux experience. I paid attention on FreeBSD when reading a Linux magazine and installed it two months ago. I really do not have any important reasons to change, but I admit that I am impressed and I like FreeBSD very much, and my interest on it is incresing everyday. I like its centralized development and its separation between the OS and the ports. Perhaps one day I will do the change, but I first must feel safe and confortable with the FreeBSD, the same that when I changed from WinDog to Linux. I do not like linux-FreeBSD wars. I hate them. Both are good operating systems with their pros and cons. Many of you tell that Linux is a desktop OS, and that it is a chaothic OS. I do not agree with that, and If you argue that, you do not know Linux well. When I speak about Linux, I mean Debian or Gentoo. I do not think that they are chaothic or intended for desktop. Debian put all the pieces together in one OS that is in order and works nicely. Gentoo portage philosophy is similiar to FreeBSD ports. People on the FreeBSD and Debian GNU/Linux mailing lists are very kind and help you in any case, if you ask questions politely and you have searched and read tha manuals first. So, why do we start always the war? The real war should be against the Bill Gates OSes, instead of fighting among us. I have never heard a bad word about FreeBSD on the Linux lists. Indeed, I think that most of Linux people do not even know thet FreeBSD exists, some of them think that it is another Linux distribution. On the oposite side, I have heard several people hating Linux on this list, even comparing it with WinDogs :-( I hate the following wars: BSD license vs GPL license Linux vs xBSD GNOME vs KDE bash vs tcsh text apps vs X apps CUPS vs lpr I think we should cooperate instead of fighting. Indeed, BSD code is on Linux OSes, and GNU software is on FreeBSD ports.. etc... Thank you very much and sorry for my bad english. Just my 2 euro cents. Ramiro Aceves. (Spain) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Boris Spirialitious writes: BS> Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies BS> that need support for the latest hardware. It's not a question of latest, it's a question of which hardware. FreeBSD, like all operating systems, targets a broad but not universal user base, and so the mix of hardware that it supports doesn't cover every conceivable device, although it will naturally overlap for the most part with any other OS. For example, given the predominance of FreeBSD as a heavy-duty server (a quick check of the Web will readily show that FreeBSD is being used all over the place), I'd expect to see relatively weak support for joysticks and game accessories, and relatively strong support for backup devices and terminals. I'd expect to see the opposite with Linux, which is heavily promoted as a desktop OS. I use FreeBSD as a straight server OS, and it seems to support whatever devices I care to connect to it in that capacity. I don't have very exotic requirements, though. It is also true that the more widely used and/or better funded an OS is, the more devices it usually supports. Many people are trying to make money with Linux, so they get it to support more devices; and it has a large user base, which encourages more people and companies to volunteer hardware support. Windows is in a similar position. Even with Windows, though, you see differences: NT-based systems traditionally have had better support for server-oriented devices (like FreeBSD), whereas consumer versions of Windows emphasized game ports, fancy video cards, and the like. Currently I consider FreeBSD the best available choice for a server, and if it weren't for FreeBSD, I'd probably select one of the other open-source BSDs. Linux is too incoherent and desktop-oriented today for heavy server use, IMO. And if I want a pure desktop, I just run Windows. For companies with a minimal IT staff, I'd recommend Windows 2000 for servers in most cases. If they have a qualified IT staff, I might suggest some commercial flavor of UNIX. If they have a very qualified IT staff, I might suggest FreeBSD. The reason for requiring the qualified IT staff for FreeBSD is not that FreeBSD is any less reliable than the other choices; it's just that FreeBSD has no formal support structure that one can call at 3 AM to fix a broken server, whereas commercial OS publishers usually do (even then, if the staff is really clueless, it's safest for them to avoid any type of UNIX entirely). For desktops, I always recommend Windows. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Tabor Kelly wrote: Boris Spirialitious wrote: It's like Dave Horsfall wrote: _ /| /| | | | ||__|| | |Please do not| / O O\__ | feed the | / \ | Trolls | / \ \|_| / _\ \ || /|\\ \ || / | | | |\/ || / \|_|_|/ | _|| / / \|| || / | | | --| | | | | --| * _| |_|_|_| | \-/ *-- _--\ _ \ | || / _ \\|/ ` * / \_ /- | | | * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c -- Indeed. One should never respond to a troll. It's always so much more fun to respond *at* a troll. I find the most satisfying response to be pointing and giggling at the offending creature. FWIW, I did review this fellow's earlier posts. And, I have to say, he won't be missed. Rude, condecending, and moreover, combative and aggresively defensive over what could have been slightly minor matters. Sad, but, nontheless, entertaining for 10 seconds. Sadly, the olde style fun trolls don't exist anymore. An extinct beast. *sigh* -- Duo ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Boris Spirialitious wrote: Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies that need support for the latest hardware. Thank you for informing me. Boris Personally I moved away from Linux because of all the support problems it had, I've learned more about UNIX from the 1 1/2 years using FreeBSD then I ever did in the 5 years using Linux. This is mainly do to the excellent centralized and authoritative documentation available for the project. Also it really helped that FreeBSD is an Operating System and not just a kernel + 3rd party user & system tools hodgepodged together into a distribution. Also FreeBSD nor Linux are good choices if your looking for support and the latest hardware. Being able to support yourself with minimal help from others is par for the course for any open source UNIX solution. Windows and other commercial solutions are available if you need hand holding. Good luck on your Linux odyssey, and your welcome back anytime as long as you don't keep burning your bridges and apologize to the FreeBSD team for calling them "Very stupid people" (Re: Supermicro Hardware and FreeBSD, 01/05/[EMAIL PROTECTED]:50), they would have helped you if you hadn't of said that. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Boris Spirialitious wrote: It's like Dave Horsfall wrote: _ /| /| | | | ||__|| | |Please do not| / O O\__ | feed the | / \ | Trolls | / \ \|_| / _\ \ || /|\\ \ || / | | | |\/ || / \|_|_|/ | _|| / / \|| || / | | | --| | | | | --| * _| |_|_|_| | \-/ *-- _--\ _ \ | || / _ \\|/ ` * / \_ /- | | | * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c -- Tabor Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://tabor.taborandtashell.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Jerry McAllister wrote: Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies that need support for the latest hardware. Thank you for informing me. Thought you decided to leave. That's why I said 'Bye' Someone who begins with their first post on the questions list with invective and insults instead of asking a question will, not surprisingly, not receive much positive response. People here are interested in getting questions answered and problems solved. They are not interested in responding to juvenile attacks. jerry Boris Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product this linux! Glad you're happy. Sorry you can not seem to comprehend a user volunteer supported system. Bye, jerry Boris Ok - let's just call em what he is. This one just does not grasp the concepts of manors much less being some variant of a human being - So, I'll stoop to a level IT can understand - This one is a f***-tard. Plain and simple. Furthermore, I apologize to anyone that is offended by the tone of my posting. Let's just call it as we see it. -- Best regards, Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
> > Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies > that need support for the latest hardware. Thank you for informing > me. Thought you decided to leave. That's why I said 'Bye' Someone who begins with their first post on the questions list with invective and insults instead of asking a question will, not surprisingly, not receive much positive response. People here are interested in getting questions answered and problems solved. They are not interested in responding to juvenile attacks. jerry > > Boris > > Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report > > a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they > > make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product > > this linux! > > Glad you're happy. > Sorry you can not seem to comprehend a user volunteer supported system. > > Bye, > > jerry > > > Boris > > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Oh, but I do understand! FreeBSD is not good choice for companies that need support for the latest hardware. Thank you for informing me. Boris Jerry McAllister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report > a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they > make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product > this linux! Glad you're happy. Sorry you can not seem to comprehend a user volunteer supported system. Bye, jerry > > Boris > > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 09:57:49 -0800 (PST) Boris Spirialitious <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I > report a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd > do they make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a > real product this linux! > > Boris Congratulations! For the first time in 6 years you have made me ashamed of the fact that I learned Linux before I learned FreeBSD. I'm glad the Linux lists I frequent aren't like that. To the rest of the list members... don't hold him against the rest of us Linux users. :-) Jacob ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Jan 13 at 09:57, Boris Spirialitious vomited up some 1's and 0's thusly: > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report > a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they > make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Odd indeed, if anyone was going to be "made fun of" it might as well be me since I'm such a n00b and incredibly limited in my thinking, yet strange to say, I have never noted this to be the case. Yet. (*ducks*) I assume the hardware you're attempting to run apps on under Linux is of absolutely *no* consequence whatsoever. Why ask? It doesn't work, so it must be the app. An unsuppported PCMCIA or PCI card? Noo, never happens! A sound card that doesn't work under Mandrooky15..1? Can't possibly be. > Its like a real product this linux! I'm ecstatically happy that you have made such a revolutionary discovery and also that you are so delighted with it. Long may you continue to enjoy the fruits of your research into thoroughly supported OS's. Troll [burp] Kind Regards and penguin corpses, -Colin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On 13/01/05 09:57 -0800, Boris Spirialitious wrote: > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report > a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they > make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product > this linux! > > Boris You're Welcome! And thanks for taking the time to earn yourself an entry in my hall of fame!: :0: * ^From:[EMAIL PROTECTED] /dev/null Jason ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
Hello, On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 09:57:49AM -0800 or thereabouts, Boris Spirialitious wrote: > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report > a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they > make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product > this linux! Nice to hear that you've found for what you have been looking for :). Just three things: 1.) Maybe you could try to fix that problem (if it was really small) by yourself. Maybe you could be more regardful to others and their time. 2.) Looks like you gonna shit on linux when something larger will emerge, and it will, and there will be noone to help you. Maybe then you will revert back to Windows. 3.) Don't forget to shut the lights and close the door after you leave. Bon voyage, Martin -- martin hudec * 421 907 303 393 * [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.aeternal.net "Nothing travels faster than the speed of light with the possible exception of bad news, which obeys its own special laws." Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" pgppQobNQmFEx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Thank you!
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005, Boris Spirialitious wrote: I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product this linux! Boris NEXT WE USE THIS LEENUX TO KILL MOOSE AND SQUIRREL! Trolls, they stay so crunchy in milk. *plonk* -- Duo Dispensing Cluepons, one moron at a time. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you!
On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 09:57:49AM -0800, Boris Spirialitious wrote: > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report > a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they > make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product > this linux! It's wonderful that you're so happy now!! Kris pgpLs3IHWPteQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Thank you!
> > I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed > to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report > a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they > make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product > this linux! Glad you're happy. Sorry you can not seem to comprehend a user volunteer supported system. Bye, jerry > > Boris > > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank you!
I just wanted to thank you for making Freebsd 5.3 so badly. We changed to linux and our application runs so much faster its unbelievable. I report a small problem and they work hard to fix it. Not like freebsd do they make fun of me or ask me to give them hardware. Its like a real product this linux! Boris - Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! Get yours free! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Need Guidance in my Internet Connection Sharing configuration - SOLVED - Thank you
To All: Chuck Swiger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> By the way, is my system clock wrong or yours? > Your clock seems to be off. In my Gnome Desktop my date and time are correct but anyways I will try to find out about this one... John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > If you are getting DHCP from your aDSL modem, it is very likely that > it is already doing NAT for you (and firewalling). Doing NAT upon > NAT is probably not productive. If you are getting an RFC1597 > private (non-routed) address, this is certainly the case. Otherwise, > try logging in to your aDSL (the provided documentation should > tell you how) and see if it doesn't have NAT settings. > If my suspicion is correct, then you simply need to connect a switch > or hub between your aDSL modem and your computers. Just be aware, > many aDSL modems come configured with a very small DHCP pool > (often just 2 or 4 addresses), so you may have to expand that > (again, by logging in to the administrative function of your > aDSL modem, hopefully through a web browser, though some require > an [often Windows-only] custom application). I tried this connection last year and found out that every time I try to connect to the Internet in either computer, the aDSL Modem just cuts-off and that was the time I thought that I should be using NAT but since I had to study on IPFW and NATD, I had to do some research and it took me some time to try what I am trying today or shall I say I tried since last week... Benjamin Sobotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To make sure I understand, you can reach the internet from your > router? So it is really a routing problem, right? > The interface connected to the modem is bge0? aue0 is connected to > your internal network?! Your internal machines can ping the router?? > If everything is so then try > natd_interface="bge0" > instead of what you have. Actually I'm not sure at all because I'm not > on my machine. Anyways, might be worth a shot. Ohh and don't forget to > reboot after you did the changes. If this doesn't work I would try > everything without all those firewall rules. Start out easy and when > it works you can still add rule after rule. Always try pinging IPs > because DNS might not work right away. I tried this one and it worked... Frank J. Laszlo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> natd_interface="aue0" > this should be your external (ADSL) interface Yes, I tried this one and it worked... To all of you who responded, Thank you very very...much natd_interface="aue0" was what made my system enables my Internet Connection Sharing Once again, thank you to all of you and of course to the FreeBSD Documentation Team... Srot BULL P.S. Could not CC to all because I forgot how to send an Email with multiple CC addresses in...Hehehe ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank you FreeBSD community
Today I had a Mac OSX come my way for a simple application installation of Thunderbird. Unbeknownst to me, I interupted a system update that was in progress (Kernel + others) and proceded to install Thunderbird. When the iBook was rebooted it wouldnt load its GUI. Thanks to the FreeBSD knowledge I have gained from this and other groups plus my own usage of FreeBSD i was able to troubleshoot and solve the problem. Rebooted into 'Safe Boot' and reinstall the update package after I read the log to see that an update to I/O was causing an I/O read error on startup. Again many thanks to the BSD community. Regards, Gary Hayers I T Support www.wenn.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
[Surfing the Net with Kids] Welcome & Thank You
Dear Reader, Your "Surfing the Net with Kids" newsletter subscription is now confirmed. Thank you! And you don't even have to wait until Wednesday morning for your first issue, because I've put the current issue online at: http://www.surfnetkids.com/newsletter.htm Are you an educator? If so, you probably spend a great time of time trying to integrate the Internet into your curriculum. I, on the other hand, spend hours every day scouring the Web for the very best sites for students. If you'd like to learn how you can put my passion to work for you, click here: http://www.surfnetkids.com/printables-club.htm . LIGHT A FIRE SCREENSAVER . Here's your complimentary Light a Fire screensaver: http://www.surfnetkids.com/movie/screensaver.htm .. IMPORTANT INFO ABOUT EMAIL FILTERS .. In order to insure that your Surfnetkids newsletter is not trapped by email spam filters, please place us on your safe list as follows: Hotmail: Place the domain "surfnetkids.com" in your safe list. The safe list can be accessed via the "Options" link next to the main menu tabs. AOL: Place the email addrses "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" in your address book. If the newsletter arrives in your Spam folder, move it to your New Mail folder. Yahoo! Mail: If one of our newsletters is filtered to your bulk folder, open the message and click on the "this is not Spam" link next to the "From" field. Earthlink: Add "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" and "surfnetkids.com" to your address book. Other providers: If our newsletters is being filtered, try adding our domain "surfnetkids.com" or our email address "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" to your address book or contact list. If this option is not available, try moving the message to your inbox or forwarding the message to yourself. If subsequent messages continue to be filtered, call or email your ISP's tech support and specifically ask how you can be sure to receive all email from surfnetkids.com. --- YOU ARE SUBSCRIBED AS: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TO CANCEL: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] TO SUBSCRIBE: http://www.surfnetkids.com/emailedition.htm ALL OTHER INQUIRIES: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ONLINE ARCHIVE: http://www.surfnetkids.com - See ya on the Net, Barbara J. Feldman "Surfing the Net with Kids" http://www.surfnetkids.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you All
On Wednesday 21 July 2004 07:57 pm, Ara Avvali wrote: > I would love to send a big hug to people who helped me here about my > question regarding the update process > everything is fine now :-D > love you all > lol ;-) Welcome to FreeBSD and the FreeBSD community. Enjoy. :-) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank you All
I would love to send a big hug to people who helped me here about my question regarding the update process everything is fine now :-D love you all lol ;-) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
thank you
for excellent user support. now i have enough answers and can start working tomorrow :) ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: re: thank you for delivery
Hi, this is Terence's spam blocker. Apparently this is the first time he's getting email from this reply-to email address. Just follow the link and answer the simple question to verify you are a human not a spam-bot and I'll get the message. [was getting 1000 spam a day; now, zippo!]. Thanks, Terence http://knowspam.net/v/v?a=cXVlc3Rpb25zQGZyZWVic2Qub3Jn&b=cGFycnRAamd1cnUuY29t Thanks! ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank You For Contacting AllCommunity.com
Thank you for writing to AllCommunity.com, the Internet's Super Community! We are currently swamped with emails and will get back to you as soon as possible as your email and input is very important to us. Some of our most frequently asked questions are listed here, so if you find your answer here, you may not get a personal response from us. General FAQ --- 1. Where can I log into my account? You can log into your account at http://www.allcommunity.com/. Just enter your username and password and click on 'Login'. If it says 'invalid login', then click on 'Forgot Your Login Info?' to retrieve your login id and password. Chances are, you have forgotten your password. 2. I have been suspended for spamming, when can my account be re-instated? You can't reinstate your account if it was suspended for spamming. We are dead serious about our anti-spam policy found at http://allcommunity.com/ac-antispam.htm. If you spammed once, you're out, and you will lose all your referrals and your uplinks will also lose all your referrals. No cash will be paid out. 3. I got spammed by one of your users/members, who should i contact? Forward the spam email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and instant action will be taken. 4. What programs do you have active now and how do i make money? Our currently active get paid programs are: - Get paid to read your email - Get paid to shop - Community Plus Soon you will start to receive emails pertaining to your topic of interest and you'll be paid to read them. You'll also be paid when your referrals read their emails. (Please note that your accounting will be added about 1-2 weeks after you receive your emails. As for the Community Plus program, you'll start to earn generous commissions when you refer a friend to our service who also becomes a Community Plus Member. For more info on the Community Plus program, read: http://www.allcommunity.com/ac-communityplus.htm 5. If I want to cancel my AllCommunity Membership, what do I need to do? Just email [EMAIL PROTECTED] and say 'cancel my membership'. Be sure to include your member ID or we won't be able to find you. Get Paid to Read Email / AllCommunity/Yesmail FAQ - 1. How do I know which emails are from AllCommunity/Yesmail? All paid emails that we send you will contain the following header: This is an Allcommunity/Yesmail Paid Announcement. To check your Allcommunity account balance go to www.allcommunity.com. To Modify your My.YesMail account, please see *Member Services* below. 2. I haven't received any emails yet, why? Please allow up to 30 days before your email is incorporated into our advertiser database. For some members, this may be as soon as a few days. 3. How many emails will I receive in a month? This would depend on which interest categories you selected and how often you clicked on the email offers and how many advertisers we have. 4. I have been receiving emails from yesmail but not getting paid for it Allow up to 2 weeks between the time you receive your email and your account to be updated. Also, if you have previously signed up to yesmail before joining Allcommunity, you will not be paid to read those emails. You will need to re-join allcommunity with a different email address. Remember, only if the header of your email says 'AllCommunity/Yesmail' will you get paid for it. 5. Where would the emails be sent to and how do I check them? The Paid Emails will be sent to the email address you entered when you join AllCommunity. You can change this at your Modify Profile page. 6. How do I change my interest categories? Login to your my.yesmail account at http://my.yesmail.com. When you joined AllCommunity, you have been emailed a seperate login and password info for your my.yesmail.com account. 7. If I have additional questions about this paid email program, should I contact Yesmail or AllCommunity? You should always contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for anything related to your AllCommunity membership. Best Regards, AllCommunity.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Boot and MBR. Thank YOU!
> > Sorry for being such a pest, my boss kept asking why my computer wasn't > working, and I'm not ready to ready for him to know I've got BSD loaded. > I was in panic mode because I couldn't get my Windows XP screens and > applications to come up. I deeply apologize, I was finally able to read > all of your message Jerry and it worked they way you said it would. All > is well, I'm on my way to prove that I can get twice the stuff I need > through the open source community than we can buy through Microsoft. > Thanks for all the posts and help. You guys rock! Glad it is working. You can experiment later with prettier Boot Manglers, etc, but up and actually running always seems to me to be the first step. jerry > > Res Ipsa Loquitor, > Mark-Nathaniel Weisman > Site Master > Mystic1.net > ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Boot and MBR. Thank YOU!
Sorry for being such a pest, my boss kept asking why my computer wasn't working, and I'm not ready to ready for him to know I've got BSD loaded. I was in panic mode because I couldn't get my Windows XP screens and applications to come up. I deeply apologize, I was finally able to read all of your message Jerry and it worked they way you said it would. All is well, I'm on my way to prove that I can get twice the stuff I need through the open source community than we can buy through Microsoft. Thanks for all the posts and help. You guys rock! Res Ipsa Loquitor, Mark-Nathaniel Weisman Site Master Mystic1.net ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: RE: Thank you
> Curious, what if I want either option. In other words, when I boot up the > machine it shows the gdm login, but if I want a console login can I just hit > Alt-F2? Yes. ALT+Fn, n=1, ... 8 will give you virtual terminals, ALT+F9 brings you back to X. The virtual terminals are defined in /etc/ttys (it also as a man page: ttys(5)). Other graphical login managers (like XFree's xdm) are launched from that file, but for some reason that does not work with gdm (thus the startup script). Simon signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Thank you
Curious, what if I want either option. In other words, when I boot up the machine it shows the gdm login, but if I want a console login can I just hit Alt-F2? I would just try it out myself, but currently my only running FreeBSD machine is a fileserver. You'll have to hit Ctrl + Alt + F2 to get into tty2 from X (Or at least this is what the Absolute FreeBSD book is wanting me to think - havnt tried it yet) feel free to try it though! ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Thank you
> > > I searched your site, but my burning question is, How > > > do I start the Graphical Interfaces, KDE and Gnome? I > > > did a Custom Installation following the directions of > > > the website. I installed all the packages and Ports. I > > > want to learn everything. > > > > I don't know about gnome but for KDE, add the line > > exec startkde > > in to a local file called ".xinitrc". There are ways to > make it startup > > at login but I choose to type startx at the command line. > > If you use gdm (which comes with Gnome) as a login manager, > you will be automatically logged into Gnome. > > To launch gdm at boot time, the following is necessary > > cp /usr/X11R6/etc/rc.d/gdm.sample /usr/local/etc/rc.d/gdm.sh > chmod a+x /usr/local/etc/rc.d/gdm.sh Curious, what if I want either option. In other words, when I boot up the machine it shows the gdm login, but if I want a console login can I just hit Alt-F2? I would just try it out myself, but currently my only running FreeBSD machine is a fileserver. > > You can also launch gdm manually on the console. > > Regards, > Simon > ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you
> > I searched your site, but my burning question is, How > > do I start the Graphical Interfaces, KDE and Gnome? I > > did a Custom Installation following the directions of > > the website. I installed all the packages and Ports. I > > want to learn everything. > > I don't know about gnome but for KDE, add the line > exec startkde > in to a local file called ".xinitrc". There are ways to make it startup > at login but I choose to type startx at the command line. If you use gdm (which comes with Gnome) as a login manager, you will be automatically logged into Gnome. To launch gdm at boot time, the following is necessary cp /usr/X11R6/etc/rc.d/gdm.sample /usr/local/etc/rc.d/gdm.sh chmod a+x /usr/local/etc/rc.d/gdm.sh You can also launch gdm manually on the console. Regards, Simon signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Thank you
Khoi - San Zulu wrote: I am of the understanding that the Operating System loves command line. I dont feel that I am at that level yet to configure from the command line. Make sure you read the "New to Unix" guide on http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/new-users/index.html and you might also want to have a look at the Unix documentation produced by my University, the University of Edinburgh, which is designed for people who never used Unix before - http://unixhelp.ed.ac.uk One thing that newcomers to FreeBSD soon realise is that you can't keep away from the command line for long - best to learn and experiment with it! Andrew ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you
On Thursday 22 January 2004 09:44, Khoi - San Zulu wrote: > Good day. > > I would like to extend to you, whomever you are, my > heartfelt gratitude for this operating system. > > I come from a poor community in the heart of South > Africa. I learned about computers and how they work, > using Microsoft operating systems. I have had no > experience with any other operating system besides > this. > > Windows NT, 2000 and XP. I was given a copy of FreeBSD > release 5.0 by a gentleman I happened to meet whom is > into the Unix Operating system. He gave me 2 CD-Rom > disks and 2 Stiffy disks. I have read your site, I > found it most informative. I installed the FreeBSD > Operating System onto a Pentium II computer. It worked > first time, Great I searched on Google for > commands and have found some. > I searched your site, but my burning question is, How > do I start the Graphical Interfaces, KDE and Gnome? I > did a Custom Installation following the directions of > the website. I installed all the packages and Ports. I > want to learn everything. You should have XFree86 and KDE or Gnome installed. When you're done with that it's time to configure your video card. This can be done in 2 ways : graphical or in text-mode by selecting your hardware from a list. The command to start the graphical configuration utility is : xf86cfg And the command to start the text-based configuration utility is : xf86config When you're done, make sure that you have the config-file that has been generated in /etc/X11/XF86Config . Now when you type "kdm" you should get a graphical login-screen where you can login with your username and password. After logging in KDE should apear. > I am of the understanding that the Operating System > loves command line. I dont feel that I am at that > level yet to configure from the command line. An old > adage in South AFrica goes, work from what you know, > to what you don't know. I want to learn everything > about the Operating System. I see its Potential is > GREAT So much can be done for the people who > cannot afford old or new computers never mind the > licenses for the Other operating systems here like > Novell and Microsoft. I desperately want to learn > about this. I have come to an internet cafe to educate > myself further. My problem is that resources are > limited here regarding our access to Alternative > Operating Systems and equipment. The potential that > the discovery of this Operating System and what it > offers makes me salivate with happiness. I can make a > meal of this and do so many things within the > community along the lines of empowerment I have > heard about Linux, but have read from a few sources > that the FreeBSD Operating system is amongst the more > secure out there as well as that FreeBSD 5.0 has the > ability to emulate linux. So In my understanding I get > multiple Operating Systems, with Multiple capabilities > all roled into 1 ( well 2 disks!). > > Please help in this regard. If possible, please help > me with the commands or where I can find them!!! I > would appreciate this greatly First of all : Remember, Google is your friend :) With Google you can find a lot of shell introduction pages (searching for things like "shell script commands" or "learning shell scripts" ) A good example of a page that explains some basic shell commands can be found here : http://www.ii.uned.es/~apm/Doc/Shell1.html Good luck finding your way into FreeBSD ! grtz, Daan ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Thank you
On Thursday 22 January 2004 12:44 am, Khoi - San Zulu wrote: > Good day. > > I would like to extend to you, whomever you are, my > heartfelt gratitude for this operating system. > > I come from a poor community in the heart of South > Africa. I learned about computers and how they work, > using Microsoft operating systems. I have had no > experience with any other operating system besides > this. > > Windows NT, 2000 and XP. I was given a copy of FreeBSD > release 5.0 by a gentleman I happened to meet whom is > into the Unix Operating system. He gave me 2 CD-Rom > disks and 2 Stiffy disks. I have read your site, I > found it most informative. I installed the FreeBSD > Operating System onto a Pentium II computer. It worked > first time, Great I searched on Google for > commands and have found some. > > I searched your site, but my burning question is, How > do I start the Graphical Interfaces, KDE and Gnome? I > did a Custom Installation following the directions of > the website. I installed all the packages and Ports. I > want to learn everything. I don't know about gnome but for KDE, add the line exec startkde in to a local file called ".xinitrc". There are ways to make it startup at login but I choose to type startx at the command line. Kent > > I am of the understanding that the Operating System > loves command line. I dont feel that I am at that > level yet to configure from the command line. An old > adage in South AFrica goes, work from what you know, > to what you don't know. I want to learn everything > about the Operating System. I see its Potential is > GREAT So much can be done for the people who > cannot afford old or new computers never mind the > licenses for the Other operating systems here like > Novell and Microsoft. I desperately want to learn > about this. I have come to an internet cafe to educate > myself further. My problem is that resources are > limited here regarding our access to Alternative > Operating Systems and equipment. The potential that > the discovery of this Operating System and what it > offers makes me salivate with happiness. I can make a > meal of this and do so many things within the > community along the lines of empowerment I have > heard about Linux, but have read from a few sources > that the FreeBSD Operating system is amongst the more > secure out there as well as that FreeBSD 5.0 has the > ability to emulate linux. So In my understanding I get > multiple Operating Systems, with Multiple capabilities > all roled into 1 ( well 2 disks!). > > Please help in this regard. If possible, please help > me with the commands or where I can find them!!! I > would appreciate this greatly > > Thank You so much for this Operating. Please pass this > on to whomever is concerned. My compliments and > gratitude to one and all > > Thanking You as well as hoping for a favourable > response. > > Yours Sincerely > Adam > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! > http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ > ___ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Thank you
Good day. I would like to extend to you, whomever you are, my heartfelt gratitude for this operating system. I come from a poor community in the heart of South Africa. I learned about computers and how they work, using Microsoft operating systems. I have had no experience with any other operating system besides this. Windows NT, 2000 and XP. I was given a copy of FreeBSD release 5.0 by a gentleman I happened to meet whom is into the Unix Operating system. He gave me 2 CD-Rom disks and 2 Stiffy disks. I have read your site, I found it most informative. I installed the FreeBSD Operating System onto a Pentium II computer. It worked first time, Great I searched on Google for commands and have found some. I searched your site, but my burning question is, How do I start the Graphical Interfaces, KDE and Gnome? I did a Custom Installation following the directions of the website. I installed all the packages and Ports. I want to learn everything. I am of the understanding that the Operating System loves command line. I dont feel that I am at that level yet to configure from the command line. An old adage in South AFrica goes, work from what you know, to what you don't know. I want to learn everything about the Operating System. I see its Potential is GREAT So much can be done for the people who cannot afford old or new computers never mind the licenses for the Other operating systems here like Novell and Microsoft. I desperately want to learn about this. I have come to an internet cafe to educate myself further. My problem is that resources are limited here regarding our access to Alternative Operating Systems and equipment. The potential that the discovery of this Operating System and what it offers makes me salivate with happiness. I can make a meal of this and do so many things within the community along the lines of empowerment I have heard about Linux, but have read from a few sources that the FreeBSD Operating system is amongst the more secure out there as well as that FreeBSD 5.0 has the ability to emulate linux. So In my understanding I get multiple Operating Systems, with Multiple capabilities all roled into 1 ( well 2 disks!). Please help in this regard. If possible, please help me with the commands or where I can find them!!! I would appreciate this greatly!!!! Thank You so much for this Operating. Please pass this on to whomever is concerned. My compliments and gratitude to one and all Thanking You as well as hoping for a favourable response. Yours Sincerely Adam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it! http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
user unknown! but found.<- SOLVED thank you
Hello everyone,
I have a strange problem,
There is a users has been added in my FreeBSD 4.8-R since over 6 months
now.
suddenly from no where, last 2 days, any INCOMING emails ONLY
to this users it fails and it says "user known"
Actually the user is in the system, im running the builtin sendmail.
and qpopper, openwebmail, nothing special.
I deleted that users totally, I add him again, but the same problem!
I added a diffrent username, it works fine.
I changed the Uid for the poor user it still doesnot accept
incoming mails and says "unknown users" or "faild"
I ran the command cat /etc/passwd|awk -F: '{print $1}'
the users is listed, I checked /etc/passwd , users is listed,
I can access user shell.
/var/log/maillog says:
sm-mta[670]: hBHFWZpD000670: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>... User unknown
Can someone explain, whats this!
any help appreciate it thanks.
Marwan.
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Can you please forward to your users - (2) Available positions in Houston - see within - thank you.
Extreme Technologies, Inc. has two positions that we are actively recruiting for on behalf of a client (Fortune 500 company w/ approx. 6000 employees located in Houston, Texas). These are both high profile and Full Time Employee roles within the organization. Details on Environment Sun Solaris E10K HW T3 Sun Storage IBM Shark EMC Symmetrix #1 Storage Lead Storage Expert with Leadership background. Must know Storage Theory. Strong Implementation experience. Complex environment. Numerous Projects slated for next year. #2 Operations Manager (Unix Group) High level position overseeing day to day production support. Must be have technical background in Unix environment. Planning and Forecasting experience. Motivator and strong communicator. Overseeing multiple teams and projects daily. I appreciate your help - please call me with any questions. Kind Regards, Craig Guidry Extreme Technologies, Inc. (281) 392.1717 - phone (281) 392.1771 - fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: which linux? (not flame bait, thank you)
DavidB wrote: First I would like to say that FreeBSD rocks, and have been using it for more than a few years. I like the ports system, I like compiling from source so I can get the compile time features I want. Portupgrade really helps with maintaining ports. My question is this, I would like to have a little exposure to linux and am wondering which distro to run, I used redhat back at the same time I started with FreeBSD3~ , not sure if I should check them out. I had in my list of potentials, slackware, debian, and I was wondering what was thought of gentoo(I read that this was started by a former? freebsd developer)[I hope there is no bad blood there]. I didn't want to go thru a list, installing and playing with several different ones, don't have time for that, I still have to upgrade the webserver/mailserver/database box and the desktop box to 4.9 [not much to that] or wondering if I should just jump into RELENG_5_1 (I like to keep my server and desktop running with the same versions, so I can swap the desktop in place of the server should the server box fail, call it cheap insurance). So is there any particular distro that stands out to freebsd types, so I can check one out, so in a pinch, if I need to setup a linux box for some strange reason I could do so. Not here to start a religious war, I hope people have calmed down on that, but just one simple, perhaps, stupid question. Thanks, Dave ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" I know this is a bit late responding, considering the number of responses already, but to add my .02c: 1. It really depends on your purpose for using Linux. I'm a long time Solaris and then Linux user from pre-1.0 kernels, and 'new' to FreeBSD myself, but have seen most flavors of Linux or run them at one time or another. If you're doing this for professional reasons (as in company is going to start to migrate prpducts, services, etc), then you've only really got two choices that make sense: a. RedHat. No, I'm not overly fond of RH any more myself, but it's been doing downhill for anyone other than corporations for years now. They _are_ however, extremely dominant in the US in corporate environments, and will continue to be so for some time, even if they're shooting themselves in the foot IMHO for 'dropping' their 'personal' version of Linux. Remember, RH Advanced Server 2.1 is really RH7.3 at the core, aside from a custom kernel and some 'commercial' add-ons from RH. Likewise, RHEL/RHAS/RHWS 3 are I believe based on the core of RH9...if you don't have access to the ENterprise versions, use their equivalents. b. SuSE- Again, I'm not crazy about, but SLES (SuSE Linux Enterprise Server) is gaining ground, and more companies are doing ports or development with RH applications simultaneously. c. Anything else as a 'learning experience'- Linux From Scratch is pretty ambitious, and you WILL learn more about dependencies than you can bat an eye at ;-) If you're doing it for personal, or for 'possible future use of knowledge,' GenToo or LFS are both really good, but higher learning curves than either RH or SuSE/SLES, the latter two IMHO both trying to 'fit the kitchen sink' and throw mediocre GUIs on top of simple commands (sorry, I REALLY dislike YaST), along with them pushing GNOME and KDE respectively. Correspondingly, if you're doing it for personal USE, rather than learning, development, admin, etc...RH or SuSE aren't bad for 'install and forget about' type of installs, and KDE and GNOME are more 'Windows-like' with every release. For a server...I've been disappointed with RH (personal releases) in the past, which is why my RH server is still 7.3 based. Their first few releases of a major version (which ended at the 8->9 jump), eg 7.0, 7.1 are usually not the most stable platforms for production use. SuSE is pretty similar but seems to have a slightly better rep in that respect. Another issue in using either as a production system is due to the 'kitchen sink'- with the sheer number of packages they cram onto CDs, you would have todo a LOT of trimming to ensure nothing extraneous was installed on a system. RHAS(now RHEL) and SLES are better with respect to numbers of extraneous packages and focusing more on essential apps. GenToo's Portage system is definitely similar to *BSD Ports, and possibly one step further, differentiating between 'system' (world on BSD) and 'world' (all installed apps), but it WILL take time to get installed the first time through...and their 'stable' labels could use a bit of work with respect to a 24x7x365 system. I do run a GenToo system as well, and haven't hit any _major_ gotchas, but the potential is there (similar to building CURRENT on freeBSD). Last ones- Debian and Slackware. Ran Slackware for several y
Re: which linux? (not flame bait, thank you)
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:58:14 -0800 andi payn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Supra-Debians" > --- > There are a number of Debian-based distros that will install a complete > system ready to go as a workstation, server, etc., but that can be > administered from there just like any other Debian system. > > For example (this is a while back, so it may be out of date), I used > Libranet in teaching linux, because it installs a complete KDE > workstation out-of-the-box, but whenever you want (or need) to play with > something, it's just like a stock Debian box. > > But don't use Xandros--although it's Debian-based, it's heavily modified > in peculiar ways. And there's Knoppix. David, you said you don't have a lot of time. You can tinker with Knoppix a bit without installing anything or you can do a quick HD install to check things out more; it takes maybe 30 minutes, as I recall, but less than an hour, at any rate. Also, there's a live cd for Slackware, but I don't think you can do a HD install with it. > Gentoo > -- > > And, while it's nice to be able to build everything from source, it's > sometimes nice to not have to. With RPM-based distros, you can build the > SRPM when you want to, or install the binary RPM when you just want to > check something out. (How fast can your box build the kernel, XFree86, > KDE, Mozilla, ghostscript, etc.?) As far as Gentoo goes, I've got to agree with Andi on this one. I haven't done a test to get the numbers, but it seems like it even takes longer for programs to compile on Gentoo than on FreeBSD, or maybe it's just the knowledge that I have no other alternative that makes it seem longer. Also, if I had to install something "in a pinch", I wouldn't grab the Gentoo CD. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: which linux? (not flame bait, thank you)
On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 00:20, DavidB wrote: > My question is this, I would like to have a little exposure to linux and > am wondering which distro to run, I used redhat back at the same time I > started with FreeBSD3~ , not sure if I should check them out. My personal favorite distro is Mandrake--not because it's easy to use, but because it's easy to use as a development box. My next choice is Debian, for all the usual reasons. Mandrake and Debian also have by far the best user/community support networks. As for what's best for you, it really depends on what your goal is. Are you looking to get exposure as a user, an admin, or a developer? Is this to flesh out your resume, or to make you a better open source contributor, or just for fun? Without knowing all that, the best I can do is list the pros and cons of the distros I've ever played with that aren't defunct (I'll start with the ones you mentioned): Slackware, Debian, Gentoo, Redhat, Mandrake, SuSE, Crux, Elfstone, Conectiva, TurboLinux, Lindows. Also, you may want to take a look at http://www.linux.org/dist/index.html before making a decision. Apparently, there are 146 English-language, i386-platform, currently-maintained distros, and I've only tried a little over a dozen Slackware - Slackware is the most FreeBSD-like in administration. However, for my taste, it's too barebones. Not barebones as in "secure by default," but as in "missing things you need." You have to know exactly what you want to install, and how to configure it, to get into Slackware. The advantage is that if you _do_ know all of this, it's easier to get a slimmed-down system (to run as fast as possible, in as little disk space as possible). The disadvantage is that you probably don't know all of this. Still, some of the problems that linux people have with Slackware probably won't affect a FreeBSD user as much. For example, last I checked, they still don't follow the FHS, so nothing's where you expect it to be--but then that's going to be true on _any_ linux for a FreeBSDer. Similarly for initscripts, again irrelevant to a newcomer from the FreeBSD world. Also, some of the admin tasks that I found difficult and poorly documented turned out to be pretty close to the FreeBSD way (which _is_ well documented--plus, you already know it). So, if you already know how to administer a FreeBSD box, you'll probably have less to learn on Slackware, although there will be less guidance in learning it. Overall, I wouldn't recommend Slackware to anyone who hasn't already been using Slackware. Debian -- Debian is the most FreeBSD-like in philosophy. For example, they have a STABLE branch that always works, period, even if it has to be a bit behind the times to do so. They have the least-patched kernel, gcc, glibc, etc. of all the major distros, and they put the most work into making sure everything integrates properly. Whenever Redhat seems to be going the wrong way, most of the other distros try to copy them and then fix what they screwed up--but Debian instead ignores them and spends the time findind a better solution. They've come up with some unique innovations, like the menu system and update-alternatives, which have turned out to be useful even on top of Redhat-based distros. The main disadvantage of Debian is that it's less like other distros than most distros, so if you're looking for general linux experience, it may not be the way to go. Also, even on UNSTABLE, Debian tends to be further behind some other distros (old versions of some packages, other packages not even there yet, etc.). But, if neither of these issues bothers you, then go with Debian. "Supra-Debians" --- There are a number of Debian-based distros that will install a complete system ready to go as a workstation, server, etc., but that can be administered from there just like any other Debian system. For example (this is a while back, so it may be out of date), I used Libranet in teaching linux, because it installs a complete KDE workstation out-of-the-box, but whenever you want (or need) to play with something, it's just like a stock Debian box. But don't use Xandros--although it's Debian-based, it's heavily modified in peculiar ways. Gentoo -- Gentoo is the most FreeBSD-like on the surface. It's based around portage (emerge), which is essentially ports without a base system. The fact that everything is a port--even the kernel--seems really nifty at first, but it also seems to lead to serious problems keeping the whole distro in sync. (Or maybe it's just that they don't have as large of a following as FreeBSD?) Also, there aren't nearly as many packages for gentoo as for FreeBSD (much less Redhat or Debian), and portagifying a package given an RPM specfile (or even a FreeBSD port) is generally non-trivial. Plus, I've played with gentoo a few times, and each time I have lots of fun until I run into some dependency problem that takes days to sort out. And, while it's nice t
Re: which linux? (not flame bait, thank you)
Hi all, Debian gets my vote. Hear, hear. Anybody tried Crux (http://www.crux.nu/) BTW? It has a ports system. Will try soon, methinks... Nico ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: which linux? (not flame bait, thank you)
Gentoo. Period :) I started out with slackware about 7 years ago, ran it for 2 years, then ran freebsd for 5ish, but i wanted something with a bit more "main stream/weird hardware/software" support so i decided to give a Linux a try. I must say that Gentoo is probably one of the most pleasurable linux experiences i've had to date, the package management is pretty sweet. Jeff. On Tue, 2003-11-04 at 12:09, Nicolai P Guba wrote: > On Tuesday 04 Nov 2003 12:29, Peter Ulrich Kruppa wrote: > > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, DavidB wrote: > > > > My question is this, I would like to have a little exposure to linux > > > and am wondering which distro to run, I used redhat back at the same > > > time I started with FreeBSD3~ , not sure if I should check them out. > > > I had in my list of potentials, slackware, debian, and I was wondering > > > what was thought of gentoo(I read that this was started by a former? > > > freebsd developer)[I hope there is no bad blood there]. > > Debian gets my vote. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: which linux? (not flame bait, thank you)
On Tuesday 04 Nov 2003 12:29, Peter Ulrich Kruppa wrote: > On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, DavidB wrote: > > My question is this, I would like to have a little exposure to linux > > and am wondering which distro to run, I used redhat back at the same > > time I started with FreeBSD3~ , not sure if I should check them out. > > I had in my list of potentials, slackware, debian, and I was wondering > > what was thought of gentoo(I read that this was started by a former? > > freebsd developer)[I hope there is no bad blood there]. Debian gets my vote. -- =NPG= ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
