Re: [Freedos-user] USB to RS-232 Adapters

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi frank,
No need to apologize, its a understandable mistake.
Text to speech may be one of the most  abusing phrases for how adaptive 
technology actually works that I can personally think of, speaking  for 
myself of course.
Indeed there are ways to, as you outline, send characters to a synthesizer. 
but screen reader software  programs are more like talking monitors at 
their most 
basic.

cheers,
Karen


On Tue, 10 Sep 2024, Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user wrote:


Dear Karen,


From my DOS desktop I am using a DOS ssh program into a Linux
shell where I run Linux programs.  My screen reader program
processes all items on the he screen and so forth.


Oh I see now :-)
The DOS screen just displays what it gets from the SSH client
program, effectively a terminal emulator. In this particular
scenario, the speech synthesizer attached to DOS, does have a good
chance of working just right, while the DOS user is reading e-mail
via SSH on some Linux instance.

Sounds like a neat workaround :-)
Somehow I didn't get the plot from your earlier messages - apologies.

Frank



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Re: [Freedos-user] USB to RS-232 Adapters

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi there,
Will pass on the simulation suggestion.
where I wish to ask a question is about your sense that a screen reader, 
which is not only a a passing of character strings  from  the computer to a 
hardware 
synthesizer will not be able to read the Linux Console?

In theory, I am doing something comparative  to write this message.
From my DOS desktop I am using a DOS ssh program into a Linux shell where 
I run Linux programs.  My screen reader program processes all items on the he 
screen and so forth.
  granted I am not using USB for this,  and my hardware is not using 
serial..but it could, if I used a different synthesizer source.  every post 
I have ever made to the freedos list using the same process.
Is it that the simulated serial port will not actually function as a 
physical  serial port?

Thanks for your wisdom,
Karen



On Mon, 9 Sep 2024, Frantisek Rysanek via Freedos-user wrote:


...regarding running DOS in a VM guest (emulation) and having
plausible RS232 UART emulation:

I'd hazard a guess that qemu-kvm does strive to deliver this:

https://serverfault.com/questions/872238/qemu-and-serial-ports-on-the-
guest-os

root@hv:~$ qemu-system-x86_64 -device isa-serial,help
isa-serial options:
 baudbase=  -  (default: 115200)
 chardev=  - ID of a chardev to use as a backend
 index= -  (default: 4294967295)
 iobase=-  (default: 4294967295)
 irq=   -  (default: 4294967295)
 serial=>
 wakeup=  -  (default: false)

https://github.com/qemu/qemu/blob/master/hw/char/serial-isa.c

Obviously the question remains, how faithful this emulation is to a
hardware device,and what the requirements are, of the "application" =
the software app, the firmware in the motorola radioes etc.

Regarding speech synthesis... if this serial port (in the guest VM)
is used to send strings to an external physical speech synth box, and
the vision is, that the synth's "screen spider software" will run in
the emulated DOS, note that this means that it will only ever read
the screens produced by the guest VM and its DOS - the user won't be
able to use the DOS reader, running in a VM, to read the Linux
console belonging to the host...

Frank


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Re: [Freedos-user] USB keyboards [was Re: DOS Actively Used Scenarios]

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi  g. W.
Writing with a question, and an answer to your USB keyboard situation.
For the record, I am typing with one, right now, in DOS which is the only 
operating system on my computer.

However, which leads to the question.
My BIOS has USB support, and at first that was enough to run the keyboard, 
no  other drivers required.
Does the computer you intend for this keyboard support USB at the bios 
level?  if so, it can work on its own.
Still, I added the at first to my sentence above because I use a fine USB 
dos driver.  Once I got that installed on my currently new for me computer 
the keyboard works much better. its a small thing I type very fast, with my 
keystrokes spoken, so noticed the wrong thongs announced even with the 
right things typed.
In short though, if the computer you  have in mind supports USB at the 
BIOS level, it should work without issue.

I do have a copy of the  DOS browser, but I only send it privately.
May I personally applaud your dedication to solid DOS based business 
practices!

Cheers,
Karen



On Sun, 8 Sep 2024, G.W. Haywood via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi there,

If you're not interested in the background, please skip to THE QUESTION. :)

On Saturday, June 1st, 2024 at 2:51 AM, Roger via Freedos-user wrote:


 Would be really interesting to hear, how people continue actively using
 DOS today, including their hardware/software environment. ...


See below.  I hope it's interesting.

On Mon, 3 June, 2024 at nine seconds before midnight Jim Hall wrote:


 ... I met with someone last year who uses FreeDOS to drive a
 CNC router to make actual products. (CNC = "Computer Numerical
 Control" .. that is the fancy term for "a machine controlled by a
 computer.) I recall that the CNC was running from a Dell PC, and they
 had a serial selector that let the PC control two (or three?)
 different CNC routers .. but one at a time.


Maybe I can help the guy. :)  More on that later.

But this is more of a quest for information than an offer of help.

About 40 years ago I started writing software to help run my business.
We still use it, as do several customers.  I'm still working on it as
the government keeps moving the goal posts - but that's another story.

It's all on bare metal except for the build system (it's compiled in a
DOS emulator) and for some development, both just for convenience.

Initially it only ran on DOS, and for serious use (e.g. sending bills
to customers) it's still only used on DOS although since the early 2ks
it has also run on Linux, mostly for maintenance and training.  On DOS
there were several ways of using more than the base 640k of memory but
over the years most of them fell by the wayside; my make files still
theoretically can build several different 'models', but for many years
I've built only DPMI executables using the venerable X32 DOS extender.
The C/C++ compiler and a few libraries are the original Zortech tools
which I actually paid for back in the day.  They've been upgraded over
the years and are now provided free by Digital Mars, but I'm terrified
of unexpected issues so I've never upgraded them.  There were quite a
few gremlins in the early days, some of them not immediately obvious.
The tools I'm using now are those which have stood the test of time.

As far as the business uses are concerned there's no particular reason
to move from DOS, and there are good reasons not to move (particularly
the need for caution with business data) but I'm considering FreeDOS
for a number of reasons, listed here I guess in ascending priority:

1. Debugging - for example I have some machines which will apparently
run DOS, but not my business software.  It isn't easy to debug MS-DOS.

2. Development - it might make some things easier for me.  It could be
useful to have a DOS network connection for development but I'll avoid
it like the plague for systems with real business data.

3. Probably the most pressing right now, USB support.  Few machines
thesedays are equipped with PS/2 keyboard connectors.  Thus far I've
simply relied on older gear.  Eventually that won't be an option, so
I'd like now to set up a FreeDOS system which uses a USB keyboard.

THE QUESTION
8<--
I've looked at quite a bit of the documentation (and as you see in the
mailing list archives) but I haven't seen it written in so many words.
So here's the main question: Will FreeDOS, out of the box, work on a
machine with a USB keyboard?  Several of the threads I've seen here
seem to be telling me that the answer is 'no'.  I've seen a couple of
stand-alone USB drivers for DOS mentioned here and there with caveats,
but I haven't seriously looked at them yet.

If there's experience Out There which may smooth my path I'll be very
grateful to hear it.  I'm sort of expecting that I'll have to load a
third-party driver early in the boot process.  That's OK I suppose.
8<--

Re: [Freedos-user] USB to RS-232 Adapters

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Eric,
You are welcome...given your  focus has nothing to do with the question 
though I will skip the rest.
The question, for as a reminder, is if freedos has the ability to 
simulate a serial port, if the person intends to use a USB device, i. e. 
their computer has no serial port.The answer was no.  drivers, perhaps 
Bret's of Georg's may provide  the needed USB serial bridges.
I will pass that information on to Larry so his Linux expert in California 
can  research that door..since his goal is a virtual DOS from which he 
can use  his chosen screen reader tools in Linux.

Otherwise the thread as Joseph I am concerned is closed.
Still hope Joseph Norton is well however.
Karen



On Sun, 8 Sep 2024, Eric Auer wrote:



Thank you for the license warning, Karen. The github page links e.g.:

https://bluegrasspals.com/pipermail/dectalk/2020-June/005253.html

https://bluegrasspals.com/pipermail/dectalk/2015-October/004517.html

So it is probably not a good idea to use Dectalk as Linux synth.

Which brings us back to the Dectalk USB. Luckily, it also has RS232.

For DOS, I would recommend to use the RS232 connector and RS232 mode.

If that PC has no RS232, the next choice are USB to serial cables.
Which you may use with generic DOS USB serial drivers, or emulators.

If RS232 mode of the Dectalk USB is not satisfactory, USB mode exists.

I wonder if you can use DOS software for RS232 based Dectalk Express
with Dectalk USB in USB mode once you install a generic driver for USB
serial bridges. Or by using an emulator in which the entire DOS runs.

Given that I do not know the answer for that, I would say the other two ways 
to use the device with DOS are more fool-proof than pure USB mode.



 There is no existing screen reader in Linux that is fully
 comparative to DOS programs.


When I checked years ago, BRLTTY helped with braille screen access:

https://brltty.app/

https://github.com/brltty/brltty

It also supports some speech synths: Alva Delphi, Blazie BrailleLite, Elan 
Televox, IBM ViaVoice, Tieman CombiBraille and University of Edinburgh 
Festival.


So while not being a pure screen reader, it may still be useful.

The default screen reader for the Linux Gnome GUI apparently still is Orca. I 
do not know whether it is considered a comfortable option:


https://orca.gnome.org/

There also is Voxin, but I have never heard of that before:

https://voxin.oralux.net/

it seems to be related to Emacspeak, Fenrir, Orca, etc.

Regards, Eric







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Re: [Freedos-user] USB to RS-232 Adapters

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Eric,
 To prevent anyone from trying one of your suggestions, the dectalk 
software is *very* legally copyright protected.  While that project exists, it 
cannot be used for software work in any operating system, Linux or 
anything else without permission.  something I imagine is stated on GitHub.
While your work may help  well I have no idea how it will help, laughs, my 
question, for Larry hart, is very specific.
He wants to run dos, use vocal eyes, but access his dectalk USB physical 
unit, from his physical USB port but have vocal eyes access the device. 
That program uses serial ports.
his goals is to use that screen reader to do some of his Linux things, 
screen readers are not text to speech programs, but more correctly provide

 a combination of monitor keyboard and other functions.
There is no existing screen reader in Linux that is fully comparative to 
DOS programs.
Hopefully Joseph will contact me about the actual goal, but your side 
thread  has nothing to do with his exact goal.




On Sun, 8 Sep 2024, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



Hi Karen, I have checked the web regarding Dectalk USB:

https://www.tegakari.net/en/2017/10/dectalk_usb/ shows an image of a small 
device indeed having both USB and serial port connectors, as well as a 6 volt 
power connector. you can also run it for 1 hour from a 9 volt battery.


However, somebody on Linuxquestions.org complains about a 4 second delay when 
using the device in RS232 mode with Linux a few years ago.


https://archive.org/details/dectalk-usb-user-manual

comes as a single text file, which mentions that RS232 mode is Dectalk 
Express compatible, made by axsol access solutions, running Fonix Dectalk on 
a Dragonball cpu with 16 mb of flash and 32 mb of ram. rs232 speed is not 
given, but USB speed is 12 mbps, so the manual recommends to use USB.


You can find an open source version of the Dectalk engine on github now:

https://github.com/dectalk/dectalk

This probably allows you to use it for software speech output on Linux.

If you use any embedded controller with a serial, but no USB port built in, 
you always have 2 choices to connect USB: Add a bridge chip to your circuit 
or use an USB to serial cable which has the bridge chip built into it.


Either way, a modern operating system will see an USB-based serial port and 
then let apps use that just like a serial port, but with a wider variety of 
speed choices. In DOS, you would first have to load an USB and bridge driver 
before you can access that not-physically-RS232 port at all. Running DOS in 
an emulator is another option, letting you use the drivers of the host 
operating system instead of needing DOS drivers.


I would assume that quite a few software speech synths and screen readers are 
available for Linux, but I do not know which of them are how good.


Anyway, we now know that Dectalk USB can be switched to RS232 mode, which 
lets you use it with actual RS232 ports. You can also use it in RS232 mode 
with USB to serial cables if no physical RS232 port exists ini the PC, or if 
you hope to improve transfer speed by using USB.


Both will offer some degree of Dectalk Express compatibility, which is good 
in case the native USB mode of Dectalk USB differs too much from what DOS 
Dectalk drivers expect.


Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] USB to RS-232 Adapters

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Eric, a bit in context.

On Sun, 8 Sep 2024, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:




Depends on the nature of the USB speech synth. You can do it
if the USB version of the synth in fact is just the serial
one with an USB serial bridge chip added, or maybe even just
an USB serial adapter cable to plug it to USB-only computers.
The unit is called a Dectalk USB.  I have never seen one in person, but 
imagine it actually does connect to   a physical USB port.  However, the 
challenge comes with the screen reader software, which  configures to 
actual   com port  locations.



 >

In that case, you need nothing specific to the USB device.
You only need a generic way to make the underlying serial
communications visible to DOS. This can be done 1. by a DOS
USB driver supporting your or generic USB serial bridges.

Or 2. by running DOS in an emulator on an operating system
with support for USB serial bridges, configuring only the
emulator to make the right serial thing visible as if it
were connected to the emulated RS232 port, even if it is
not physically RS232 in the outside world.


hmmm most interesting indeed.
What determines if the serial bridges are in place?

 It could be USB,

IrDA or Bluetooth, for example, depending on bridge chips.



If, however, your USB speech synth has no serial port roots
at all, it will probably need a quite different driver.
As shared, I have never seen the item, will pass this exchange on to the 
one seeking the solution.
Larry seemed to feel no driver would be needful.  My thought is getting 
the actual screen reader to find things.  from what  You say though one 
simply sets the emulator for the desired port assignment.

 >

One may write something which connects any speech synth your
Linux or Windows supports to an emulator in a way which looks
like a fixed, classic DOS compatible synth from the DOS side.
That would be a very generic solution, but also more complex.


Actually the screen reader he aims to use expects a com port assignment, 
its part of why I sought to ask Joseph, for his build  of freedos to talk 
he would have addressed this goal, even without using USB at all.
Larry is a Linux user too, his goal is to  make up for the lack of truly 
quality Linux screen readers by starting with his DOS one of choice using 
the Dectalk USB unit if possible.

Your answer certainly should help him get started.





It would be similar to having an ESC/P printer data capture
thing connected to your emulator, creating a PDF of whatever
DOS is printing, to give you flexibility on how to print the
contents later, in the Linux or Windows hosting the emulator.
Oh that seems needless,  as  in theory the screen reader program should 
provide the actual heavy lifting..wonder about the Latency with such a 
thing however.

 >

 Joseph has a build of freedos that uses something internal for speech.


What does "uses something internal" mean here in technical terms?


I have no idea, if he is still on the list perhaps he will answer.  Its 
not something I have personally tried as my computers are actually built 
to support  the hardware synths I prefer.


 >

 still I was wondering how Freedos itself would, or if it could simulate
 the same thing?


DOS itself does not simulate things in that sense. But as
said, you may get drivers for DOS which simulate for example
RS232 ports from a BIOS or UART chip perspective, or tell an
emulator to do that, without needing a DOS driver.

Okay.



The modern DOS drivers which simulate soundblaster hardware
while using AC97 or HDA hardware for actual sound output are
an impressing example of direct simulations without emulators.
A sound card does not typically serve as a speech synthesizer in DOS.  That 
way  one could  have sound and speech available at the same time.
For example,  the computer I am using right now has a soundblaster pro 
live card, and an internal decktalk long card.
When I for example run mpxplay the screen information can be spoken 
through the  synthesizer while the music is playing via speakers attached 
to the  pro live.


 >

In the decades before those, you had to run the entire DOS in
an emulator to get a simulated soundblaster, while the actual
sound output worked via any sound device of your host system.


 provide the DOS floor, add in a good USB dos driver,
 like the  Panasonic one I use, but simulate the serial port?


I believe the Panasonic driver has a focus on block

h> oriented storage (USB flash, USB card reader, USB
 floppy, USB CD, USB DVD, USB harddisk, USB SSD etc.)

but more modular drivers like those of Bret and Georg
may have support for serial (bridge) class devices.

What say you Bret or  georg,




 the serial port is needful, because the screen reader program uses it, not
 necessarily a physical port, but the serial port address.


If you need a port with an address, make sure that the
USB driver or emulator you use has UART level realism.
Some might only support BIOS level, not realistic enough.
I wi

Re: [Freedos-user] USB to RS-232 Adapters

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Eric,
I have a question about something you write here.
granted I was intending to connect my  friend in California with Joseph 
Norton, he wants to run freedos, but use a USB speech synthesizer.
If I follow what you say here, in theory at least, he could use this Linux 
USB drivers for the actual hardware, but in an emulator, tell say his 
screen reading program to use the simulated serial port?
Joseph has a build of freedos that uses something internal for speech. 
still I was wondering how Freedos itself would, or if it could simulate 
the same thing?
provide the DOS floor, add in a good USB dos driver, like the  Panasonic 
one I use, but simulate the serial port?
the serial port is needful, because the screen reader program uses it, not 
necessarily a physical port, but the serial port address.

Does my question make sense?
Karen



On Sat, 7 Sep 2024, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



Hi Luke,


 I am looking for information about getting a USB to RS-232 adapter to work
 in the FreeDOS environment. This is the first step in a project to find an
 alternative in programming legacy Motorola handheld and squad mobile
 radios.


I guess the experts here are Bret Johnson and Georg Potthast.

My assumption is that such adapters implement a generic class of device,
so support might be possible without knowing the particular chipset, but
I also remember from Windows, that specific adapter cable chipsets only
have drivers for some Windows versions, contradicting generic support.


 My understanding is that the software only runs in DOS and connects to the
 radio via RS-232 serial. The local Motorola enthusiasts state these
 devices
 require the front-end program to run in an actual DOS environment and
 cannot handle emulation.


That depends on which emulators those enthusiasts have tried so far.

I would assume that generic emulators like VMware or Qemu might not be
sufficiently optimized towards DOS, or might just lack the feature to
connect to a physical RS232 device, directly or through USB adapters.

However, I see no general reason why it should not work, so I would
suggest that you try DOS-specific emulators like DOSEMU2 or DOSBOX.

The advantage of using emulators is that they can use the USB drivers
of the host operating system (Linux, Windows, Mac) while presenting
a simulated classic RS232 port to DOS and the apps running there.

Depending on your planned expenses, you could also get a new or used
DOS-compatible computer with a physical RS232 port, which avoids all
USB issues. Most computers which still have a BIOS should work, while
computers which only support UEFI and no longer have a legacy BIOS
boot options are not suitable for running DOS directly on hardware.

Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] Wordstar 7 archive

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Jim,
Congratulations!
Not a big fine of posting at the bottom.
Still, I imagine you have perhaps come across  the   articles where George 
r. r.  Martin shares that he writes his novels in DOS using Wordstar?
would rock if you got an interview, but at the very least any Wordstar 
chapter should include him?


Kare



On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:


Liam Proven wrote:

From Canadian SF novelist Robert J Sawyer. (I've met him and read
quite a few of his books. I like them.)

He writes solely in WordStar so he's put together a freebie distro of
the final version.

https://sfwriter.com/blog/?p=5806


Jim Hall wrote:

This is really interesting! I'd seen Sawyer's archived info about
WordStar, but obviously this is new. (I'm writing an academic book
about 'milestones in tech writing history' and I'm considering adding
a chapter on WordStar. Sawyer's info will be good research. I may also
email him for an interview about it.)


Roger wrote:

I think, you would be crazy not to ask for an interview from a
programmer (or "WABits") from this era!



I've emailed Robert for an interview, and he's agreed! So that will be exciting.

If you know of anyone else I might interview about WordStar, please
share an email address or other contact info with me. (And if you're
volunteering for an interview, email me off-list so I can send you a
list of interview questions.)


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] help troubleshooting a time / date issue?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Thanks for all the interesting ideas and perspectives.
As I write?  The problem has stopped entirely.
When it happened a week or so back, I thought it might be heat related.
However, I have not only a different power supply, but a different 
processor in the computer.

Were it the clock battery, would not the problem  be consistent?
Kare



On Sat, 3 Aug 2024, Daniel Essin via Freedos-user wrote:


Time for a new cmos battery?

On 8/3/2024 8:57 AM, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user wrote:

 Hi all,
 At the most basic level, what helps a computer keep time / date?
 I have a situation where mine is skipping time / date, often within
 seconds, even when set back.
 My computer is not over heating, fan running quite cool to the touch.
 Was working just fine until late last night when I turned it off.
 basic ideas?
 for the record, I only run dos on this machine.
 Thanks,
 Karen




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[Freedos-user] help troubleshooting a time / date issue?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi all,
At the most basic level, what helps a computer keep time / date?
I have a situation where mine is skipping time / date, often within 
seconds, even when set back.

My computer is not over heating, fan running quite cool to the touch.
Was working just fine until late last night when I turned it off.
basic ideas?
for the record, I only run dos on this machine.
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] capturing or redirecting content?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Jerome,
Since I only want a text file and do not care about color as I will likely 
only need to run this twice, your program sounds like the ticket.
Considered using echo, but imagine  the solution you provide is better. 
Especially  since I can turn it on and off.

thanks for providing the option.



On Wed, 17 Jul 2024, Jerome Shidel via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi Karen,


On Jul 17, 2024, at 7:31 PM, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user 
 wrote:

Hi all,
Let me outline what I mean.
In an effort to duplicate a sucessful ssh2d386 connection I make regularly, a 
server manager wants to see the actual content, i. e. what shows on the screen 
when a -v is added.
Linux has a few of these, keystrokes that send screen output to a file.
Anyone know the comparative method in DOS?

Thanks,
Karen



You can try Logger. 
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/latest/pkg-html/logger.html
( or if you have network support, simply “FDNPKG install logger” )

It does not log directly to file. I records things that output to the screen to 
memory. It can use up to 63Mb of XMS memory which is a minimum of about 8,000 
screens in full color before it starts overwriting older text.

But, it can output the recording to plain text. If you want color, it can 
output to ANSI text or HTML as well.

Logging can be turned off and on. There is also text documentation for talking 
the Logger API from other programs. There are some assembly examples included 
that demonstrate the different API functions.

There is a small compatibility issue with it’s built-in log viewer on some 
hardware in the current version. It does not effect it’s logging or anything 
important. Basically, on some hardware the cursor gets visually stuck in the 
upper left corner of the screen after using the viewer. A simple video mode 
reset gets it moving again. I will fix that annoyance eventually when I get the 
time.

Side note… Viewing or sending the log to file will turn off logging until it is 
turned back on again.

Nowadays, I have it in my config.sys and just boot with it on my various DOS 
machines (FreeDOS, MSDOS and PCDOS) giving it 8Mb of memory for color logging 
using DEVICEHIGH=C:\FREEDOS\BIN\LOGGER.COM COLOR 8192 XMS

But, it can be loaded using the FreeDOS program DEVLOAD (or equivalent) at 
anytime.

It’s not perfect. But, It generally does a really good job. Mostly, it depends 
on how a program is handling screen writes.

At some point, I will probably add hot-key support for things line turning 
off/on logging, screen captures and other things.

:-)

Jerome






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[Freedos-user] capturing or redirecting content?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi all,
Let me outline what I mean.
In an effort to duplicate a sucessful ssh2d386 connection I make 
regularly, a server manager wants to see the actual content, i. e. what 
shows on the screen when a -v is added.

Linux has a few of these, keystrokes that send screen output to a file.
Anyone know the comparative method in DOS?

Thanks,
Karen



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS live stream event with VCF

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

no.
It is supposed to be a question allowing the sharing of how those using 
freedos could have enjoyed this event.




On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, Ralf Quint via Freedos-user wrote:


On 6/29/2024 3:37 PM, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user wrote:

 Just wondering.
 If using freedos exclusively, what tools would allow you to attend this
 event?
 Again, simply curious.
 Best,
 Karen 


Was this supposed to be a trick question?


Ralf




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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS live stream event with VCF

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Just wondering.
If using freedos exclusively, what tools would allow you to attend this 
event?

Again, simply curious.
Best,
Karen



On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:


Join us today for the VCF Live Stream, hosted by Jeff Brace from the
Vintage Computer Federation.

I'm planning for this to be accessible to non-tech folks, so I'll
start with a reminder about what DOS was like in the 1980s and 1990s,
and what "Windows" was like. Then I'll talk about how we got started
with FreeDOS, and some interesting moments over the last 30 years.
I'll wrap up with highlights of FreeDOS applications, plus some
favorite DOS applications and games.

The Live Stream will be on VCF's YouTube channel, and starts at 5:30pm
US/Central on Saturday, June 29.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_peIYEAM9pk


If you miss it, the Live Stream will be recorded so you can use the
same URL to watch it later.

Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] DOS Actively Used Scenarios

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Well..it goes without saying that I use DOS for all my professional and 
personal activities.

Just had a computer put together so I can keep doing this in fact.
It is much harder to get a freedos specific machine built though.  Would 
love a laptop for example.

Karen



On Mon, 3 Jun 2024, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:


Roger wrote:

Would be really interesting to hear, how people continue actively using
DOS today, including their hardware/software environment. Of course, not
including testing environments, as these can get really exquisite! And,
I already realize one of the environments DOS is still used, for
engineering and bare-metal programming projects.

[..]

More so curious, does anybody use DOS/FreeDOS for daily office work?
We've all heard of one writer doing so.


Mercury Thirteen wrote:

Actually, a book exists which is all about that question! :)

Check out Why We Love FreeDOS available at https://freedos.org/books/


Roger wrote:

Just what I was looking for.  Thanks!




I'll add that I met with someone last year who uses FreeDOS to drive a
CNC router to make actual products. (CNC = "Computer Numerical
Control" .. that is the fancy term for "a machine controlled by a
computer.) I recall that the CNC was running from a Dell PC, and they
had a serial selector that let the PC control two (or three?)
different CNC routers .. but one at a time.

I also found a video on YouTube from a few years ago, about some
trainspotters in Russia (I think) who found a PC in some remote booth
next to a rail line that ran the communications systems. I don't think
it was "train signal control" but "announcements sent to the trains,
like for an automated voice to read over the speaker." (Probably
boring stuff like "Staff will check for valid tickets" or "Trains will
run slow on Wednesday due to the holiday" or "No smoking aboard
trains" or whatever.) The PC was off, so they turned it on to see what
it did .. and if you paused the video at the right time, you could see
it was booting FreeDOS.

My favorite example of someone running FreeDOS was years ago, probably
around 2005. They built pinball machines, and FreeDOS ran the scoring
system, lit the lights, and played sound effects from a sound bank. I
have no idea how that was hooked up, but I've always imagined that
each element (bumpers, etc) provided input on a keyboard bus, and then
a DOS application read the keyboard to know what was happening. But
that was a long time ago, and I'm sure they aren't doing that anymore.

My favorite example before that was a nebulous one. Someone from NASA
emailed me in the late 1990s to say they were using FreeDOS on some of
their computers. They never provided details, so I don't know what it
was doing - but how cool that NASA was using FreeDOS!?

For myself, I usually run FreeDOS in a virtual machine. I like QEMU
because it's easy - but mostly because it's already installed by
default on my Linux desktop system, so I don't have to install some
other package like VirtualBox or PCem.

More recently, I bought a Pocket386 micro laptop, and now that's
running FreeDOS (see other email thread). That's $200 for the laptop,
$20 for the CF card reader, and another $20 for the PS/2 keyboard. Not
bad!

And while I don't use FreeDOS for daily work, I do use it almost
daily. One thing I do is play DOS games to take a break. I purchased
legit copies of classic DOS games from GOG.com (for like $5 each) and
I installed those on FreeDOS. I loved replaying Jill of the Jungle.
I'm replaying Commander Keen now.

I also use FreeDOS as a demonstration when I teach a university class.
That class is basically two parts: "How computers work (plus a history
of technology)" and "How to use Word & Excel." These are freshmen
students, so almost no one has used a spreadsheet before. When I start
the Excel unit, I bring in FreeDOS and show them some classic
spreadsheets: I show them VisiCalc, Lotus 1-2-3, As Easy As, and then
Quattro Pro. And then the students understand that spreadsheets just
haven't changed that much over time. The interface has changed
(graphical) and modern spreadsheets support more functions, but the
core features of "letters for columns, numbers for rows, cells are A1,
.. and so on" haven't changed since 1979 (VisiCalc on the Apple II was
the first desktop spreadsheet that we would recognize as a
"spreadsheet").

I love As Easy As. That saw me through my physics undergrad program.
And it does so much that modern spreadsheets can do - just differently
(like conditional formatting). I sometimes think that if I didn't need
to share spreadsheets with others, As Easy As could meet more than 95%
of my spreadsheet needs in 2024. That's one reason I keep showing off
As Easy As in the videos on our YouTube channel.

*We have links to VisiCalc and As Easy As on the website:
https://www.freedos.org/about/apps/


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Re: [Freedos-user] DOS diagnostic tools?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

hmm, let me see if I can find the edition suggested by an engineer friend 
of mine for the person who built this last machine.

Karen



On Sat, 18 May 2024, tsiegel--- via Freedos-user wrote:

Does spinright still have a dos version of their software posted anywhere? I 
seem to recall, that was a really good utility.?? I unfortunately never had 
the money to purchase it, and I gave up on Norton Utilities after paying 50 
bucks more for the advanced version of 4.5, then got the same upgrade price 
as those who didn't, so I considered that bad marketing, poor customer 
retention, and just bailed on the whole Norton brand, and never dropped 
another dollar on anything Norton related, and that continues to this day.


I know spinright had some upgrades from their dos package into the early 
windows era, but I lost track after that, so no clue where it is now, or even 
if it's still around.?? Nonetheless, it was a good utility for hard disk 
maintenance when it was out.


On 5/15/2024 8:45 PM, Rober To via Freedos-user wrote:

 Hi everybody:

 Other suggestions:

 https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk


 http://www.partition-saving.com/



 En mi??rcoles, 15 de mayo de 2024, 03:46:41 CEST, Karen Lewellen via
 Freedos-user  escribi??:


 Eric,
 While I will work through this list of course, you would need to reach the
 part of that Wikipedia article that talks of Norton 8, I honestly did not
 even start using a computer until 1989, and did not own a copy of Norton
 Utilities until?? after 200 at the earliest.
 I used it as an example, because the tools were grouped under the same
 organizational umbrella, designed to support it each other in solid
 diagnostic support if that makes sense.
 Kind of like spinwrite tools, instead of separate programs that may or may
 not play well together.
 will see how well these suggestions work with speech though.
 Thanks,
 Karen



 On Wed, 15 May 2024, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:

> 
>  Hi Karen,
> 
>  the utilities recommended by Rober To sound useful:
> 
>  HDAT2 harddisk repair and diagnostics ATA, ATAPI, SATA, USB, SCSI
> 
>  ASTRA Advanced Sysinfo Tool and Reporting Assistant
> 
>  HWiNFO system information, monitoring and diagnostics
> 
> > ?? Do you recall the items in norton utilities?
> 
>  There is a wikipedia article about them:
> 
>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Utilities
> 
>  The first version in 1982 included:
> 
>  unerase - Freedos comes with a simple undelete tool

>  filefix - "repairs damaged files" (?)
>  disklook - apparently a floppy disk cluster map display?
> 
>  secmod - floppy disk sector changer (disk editor, I guess?)

>  filehide - Freedos attrib should be sufficient for that
>  bathide - related to filehide
> 
>  timemark - "displays date, time, elapsed time"

>  scratr - sets colors, you can use ANSI and PROMPT for that
>  reverse - sets colors to black on white
> 
>  clear - you can use cls for that

>  filesort - sorts directories on disk
>  diskopt - tunes floppy access speed
> 
>  beep - just beeps the speaker

>  print - prints files
> 
>  Which free and open tools for directory sorting and

>  disk editors do we have in the distro at this time?
> 
>  I guess diskopt works by creating an interlaced floppy

>  sector format, which tools do we have for this style?
> 
>  According to wikipedia, Norton Utilities 2.0 added filefind

>  and renames print to lprint because MS DOS 2.0 already came
>  with a tool called print itself.
> 
>  In version 3.0, you get additional tools for file size and

>  directory listings, system information, text search, wiping
>  of disks and files etc.
> 
>  Which tools do we recommend for directory listings, file size

>  info and wiping? For size info, I would use the GNU "du" tool,
>  which is available as DJGPP compiled DOS binary.
> 
>  What could we recommend for finding files and text? I guess

>  the GNU tools "find" and "grep" would be useful choices here?
>  Similar for "wipe".
> 
>  Version 3.1 adds unerase and unremove directory tools.
> 
>  New in version 4: Defrag tool (speed disk) and format recover.

>  The defrag tool is the same which MS DOS 6 bundled later on.
> 
>  New in version 4.5: "batch enhander" and a disk editor, the

>  ncache disk cache (faster than smartdrive / smartdrv) and diag.
> 
>  Version 5 improves the disk editor further and bundles 4DOS

>  in a variant called NDOS. By now, 4DOS is sort of free/open.
> 
>  Version 6 adds Win3.1 icons and "diskreet" and improves the

>  system info. The unerase tool now supports the same optional
>  delete tracking driver as MS / central point undelete does.
> 
>  Version 7 adds support for compressed dis

Re: [Freedos-user] DOS diagnostic tools?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Eric,
While I will work through this list of course, you would need to reach the 
part of that Wikipedia article that talks of Norton 8, I honestly did not 
even start using a computer until 1989, and did not own a copy of Norton 
Utilities until  after 200 at the earliest.
I used it as an example, because the tools were grouped under the same 
organizational umbrella, designed to support it each other in solid 
diagnostic support if that makes sense.
Kind of like spinwrite tools, instead of separate programs that may or may 
not play well together.

will see how well these suggestions work with speech though.
Thanks,
Karen



On Wed, 15 May 2024, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



Hi Karen,

the utilities recommended by Rober To sound useful:

HDAT2 harddisk repair and diagnostics ATA, ATAPI, SATA, USB, SCSI

ASTRA Advanced Sysinfo Tool and Reporting Assistant

HWiNFO system information, monitoring and diagnostics


 Do you recall the items in norton utilities?


There is a wikipedia article about them:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norton_Utilities

The first version in 1982 included:

unerase - Freedos comes with a simple undelete tool
filefix - "repairs damaged files" (?)
disklook - apparently a floppy disk cluster map display?

secmod - floppy disk sector changer (disk editor, I guess?)
filehide - Freedos attrib should be sufficient for that
bathide - related to filehide

timemark - "displays date, time, elapsed time"
scratr - sets colors, you can use ANSI and PROMPT for that
reverse - sets colors to black on white

clear - you can use cls for that
filesort - sorts directories on disk
diskopt - tunes floppy access speed

beep - just beeps the speaker
print - prints files

Which free and open tools for directory sorting and
disk editors do we have in the distro at this time?

I guess diskopt works by creating an interlaced floppy
sector format, which tools do we have for this style?

According to wikipedia, Norton Utilities 2.0 added filefind
and renames print to lprint because MS DOS 2.0 already came
with a tool called print itself.

In version 3.0, you get additional tools for file size and
directory listings, system information, text search, wiping
of disks and files etc.

Which tools do we recommend for directory listings, file size
info and wiping? For size info, I would use the GNU "du" tool,
which is available as DJGPP compiled DOS binary.

What could we recommend for finding files and text? I guess
the GNU tools "find" and "grep" would be useful choices here?
Similar for "wipe".

Version 3.1 adds unerase and unremove directory tools.

New in version 4: Defrag tool (speed disk) and format recover.
The defrag tool is the same which MS DOS 6 bundled later on.

New in version 4.5: "batch enhander" and a disk editor, the
ncache disk cache (faster than smartdrive / smartdrv) and diag.

Version 5 improves the disk editor further and bundles 4DOS
in a variant called NDOS. By now, 4DOS is sort of free/open.

Version 6 adds Win3.1 icons and "diskreet" and improves the
system info. The unerase tool now supports the same optional
delete tracking driver as MS / central point undelete does.

Version 7 adds support for compressed disks (doublespace,
stacker and superstor formats) and norton disk doctor. Would
be good to know which features the disk doctor had exactly.

The final DOS version 8 just adds some Win3.1 related tools.
Later versions gradually add Win9x, FAT32, WinNT etc. support
and features specific to Windows, like a registry editor. Even
a line of products for Apple Macintosh existed. Competitors to
Norton Utilities: Central Point PC Tools, various smaller ones.

The author of spinrite claims norton disk doctor is a rip of it:
https://www.grc.com/sn/sn-666.htm
Spinrite scans disks for recoverable files and even tries some
tricks to reconstruct data from almost unreadable sectors, but
only supports 128 GB style CHS, not LBA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpinRite claims FreeDOS bundled
with SpinRite to trigger some 16-4-8-bit CHS overflow > 128 GB?

Well-known free/open alternatives are photorec and testdisk.

The batch enhancer is similar to our v8 power tools, I guess.
It can beep and show messages in color and with text boxes etc.

Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] DOS diagnostic tools?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Eric,
Do you recall the items in norton utilities?
If not, I can post a list of the various tools?
I am hoping for a  collection of options if that resonates.
Norton for example lets you create a repair boot disc, which would be a 
fine  start.
that disc then had items to check your hard drive stability, to repair 
problems, manage formatting  those sorts of things.

Does that help?
Will certainly check out the item you referenced here too.
Karen



On Tue, 14 May 2024, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi Karen,
please specify the type of diagnostics you would be interested in.

For example PCISLEEP can give you a list of PCI devices in your PC,
but you seem to be interested in disk or filesystem analysis etc.?

Maybe tools which display the SMART health status of your disks?
I remember having used tools for that and to configure disk sleep.
SMARTUDM (1997-2003-?) from sysinfolab was one I tried. No idea
whether there are variants supporting post-IDE/ATA/SATA drives.
SMARTDFT / DFT 3.00 also displayed or logged SMART disk status.

Regards, Eric

PS: Interesting to notice that Veit's tools still exist on
https://kannegieser.net/veit/programm/index_e.htm


 My hope is that there is also dos based  software supporting the care and
 diagnostics of that infrastructure?



 For example,  while I have Norton Utilities for DOS, it cannot see my
 larger drives and so forth.






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[Freedos-user] DOS diagnostic tools?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
One stated advantage of freedos shared often is the ability to use more 
contemporary hardware.
My hope is that there is also dos based  software supporting the care and 
diagnostics of that infrastructure?
For example,  while I have Norton Utilities for DOS, it cannot see my 
larger drives and so forth.

Ideas?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] the msdos 4.0 sources has some multitasking code

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

..okay.
My only surprise was your use of the word *all*  where Microsoft is 
concerned.
Speaking personally, their having released say 6.22, would have drawn a 
bit of a buzz I imagine.




On Sun, 12 May 2024, Travis Siegel wrote:

Microsoft itself has only released source for dos versions 1.25, 2.0 and 
4.0.  There are some commercial dos systems that released source for their 
versions of dos, such as opendos which was caldera dos, they released their 
version of dos 7.0, which I do have, as well as PTS dos, which released their 
last version of dos in source form as well, which I have as well.  I can't 
find any license stuff on the PTS dos source, so I have no idea whether their 
source can be used in anything other than strictly personal environments, but 
I did have the opendos sources when they were released, and they were under a 
standard opensource license back when they were released, but then that 
decision was reversed for some reason, and further releases of that 
particular dos (of which I think there was only 1) were no longer opensource, 
but that doesn't really matter, since the opensource version is still 
available.


That means, on a good day, folks can see at least three ways of doing things 
in dos (legally), though there were versions of MS-DOS version 6.0 that 
escaped into the wild in source form, which I did have a copy of at one 
point, though that hd died many many years ago, and I no longer have those 
sources.  I do recall answering a question on a mud one time about the 
time/date field in dos, since there was some argument about how large the 
integer was representing the time field.  Looking at ms-dos and opendos 
sources (I didn't have PTS dos sources at the time), there was a difference 
in the size of the variable used for that field, though I don't remember 
which dos had the larger variable type, though I did find it interesting that 
they used different integer types.



On 5/12/2024 3:48 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 Hi Travis,
 Does that mean the MS Dos code for 7 or so is has been releaced now as
 well?
 Sorry you lost your DOS machines  in a move.
 Karen



 On Sun, 12 May 2024, Travis Siegel via Freedos-user wrote:

>  Since there was a discussion here recently on multitasking with dos, I'd 
>  like to mention that the github versions of ms-dos has a directory 
>  called v4.0-ozzie
> 
>  That directory has some interesting stuff in it, one of them is a couple 
>  of dissk images (I need to move them to a linux machine and see if 
>  they'll mount, I don't have anything on windows that can identify them), 
>  but they also have some documentation (in pdf format) about how their 
>  session manager works, and how to make dos applications multitask.  The 
>  session manager program is present as well, so folks could probably mess 
>  around with that to see how well (or not) it works.  It might be 
>  something worth experimenting with for those who actually want multiple 
>  dos programs running.
> 
>  I'm highly disappointed I lost my dos machines when we moved about 2.5 
>  years ago, I'd have had a lot of fun playing with this.
> 
> 
>  Also, interestingly enough, just for reference, all of the ms-dos source 
>  code has been released under a MIT license.  I find that particularly 
>  interesting.  Apparently, Microsoft was serious when they said they're 
>  releasing the code for experimenting, and to see how early operating 
>  systems worked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [Freedos-user] the msdos 4.0 sources has some multitasking code

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Thanks Jim,
Was wondering given Travis said  all, in his post smiles.
Karen



On Sat, 11 May 2024, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:


On Sat, May 11, 2024, 10:49???PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Hi  Travis,
Does that mean the MS Dos code for 7 or so is has been releaced now as
well?




No, Microsoft has only released MS-DOS versions 1.25, 2.0 and 4.00 so far.
Nothing beyond that.
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Re: [Freedos-user] the msdos 4.0 sources has some multitasking code

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi  Travis,
Does that mean the MS Dos code for 7 or so is has been releaced now as 
well?

Sorry you lost your DOS machines  in a move.
Karen



On Sun, 12 May 2024, Travis Siegel via Freedos-user wrote:

Since there was a discussion here recently on multitasking with dos, I'd like 
to mention that the github versions of ms-dos has a directory called 
v4.0-ozzie


That directory has some interesting stuff in it, one of them is a couple of 
dissk images (I need to move them to a linux machine and see if they'll 
mount, I don't have anything on windows that can identify them), but they 
also have some documentation (in pdf format) about how their session manager 
works, and how to make dos applications multitask.  The session manager 
program is present as well, so folks could probably mess around with that to 
see how well (or not) it works.  It might be something worth experimenting 
with for those who actually want multiple dos programs running.


I'm highly disappointed I lost my dos machines when we moved about 2.5 years 
ago, I'd have had a lot of fun playing with this.



Also, interestingly enough, just for reference, all of the ms-dos source code 
has been released under a MIT license.  I find that particularly 
interesting.  Apparently, Microsoft was serious when they said they're 
releasing the code for experimenting, and to see how early operating systems 
worked.





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Re: [Freedos-user] MSD freedos diagnostic comparative?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

This may indeed be the ticket.
Although I will need to email  and ask how to write the output to a file 
as  a command line option..it  is not shared when getting help for the 
program.

Thanks,
Karen



On Sat, 27 Apr 2024, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:


Laaca posted about a new system info tool they'd written, described here:

https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/news/2024/03/fetch4fd-system-info-program/





On Sat, Apr 27, 2024 at 00:43 Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Hi all,
simple question.
Given freedos does support  things like larger hard drives and so forth,
I
am wondering if there is a simple tool comparative to msd for DOS among
freedos utilities?
or, if anyone knows of a simple tool?
my goal is not so much diagnostics as a clear indicator of  machine
stats,
the way msd provides, processor speed, type of video card, number of
drives,
memory, irq allocations, those sorts of things.
the tech behind my new machine has a new job, and was not solid enough in
DOS to provide these details..and I have what may be a failing power
supply I cannot replace until I know how much power is best.
ideas?
even a DOS port of Linux tool?
Thanks,
KarenL








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[Freedos-user] MSD freedos diagnostic comparative?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi all,
simple question.
Given freedos does support  things like larger hard drives and so forth, I 
am wondering if there is a simple tool comparative to msd for DOS among 
freedos utilities?

or, if anyone knows of a simple tool?
my goal is not so much diagnostics as a clear indicator of  machine stats, 
the way msd provides, processor speed, type of video card, number of drives, 
memory, irq allocations, those sorts of things.
the tech behind my new machine has a new job, and was not solid enough in 
DOS to provide these details..and I have what may be a failing power 
supply I cannot replace until I know how much power is best.

ideas?
even a DOS port of Linux tool?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Directory comparison program

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi John,
Could  You help us help you more by sharing a bit about your goals?
Are you wanting to compare directory to learn if all files were moved 
from one place to another, as if doing a backup to a USB  drive?

Are you wanting to check file attributes?
Are you wanting to compare the kind of information a tool shares about 
directories?

Kare



On Wed, 20 Mar 2024, hms--- via Freedos-user wrote:


Does any know of a directory comparison program?
John


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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

My apologies..perhaps if there had been more  aside from your saying you 
would use something else save for the sound card.

Still, I am sorry for my response, you were in a line of others.
As a contrast though?
Their claim that I should do things  differently would be like my saying 
to you, what is your problem? Soundblaster pro-live cards are better, and 
do not need such an old slot etc.




On Thu, 29 Feb 2024, DAMON GRAY wrote:


Well, you had given me good advice, and I was trying to be supportive of your 
point that people have reasons for what they do and I shouldn't feel compelled 
to make them feel imbecillic for making the choices they made.

I meant no offence. I was actually trying to support your point.

I'll just bow out and let you fight your own battle.




On 02/27/2024 10:25 AM PST Karen Lewellen  wrote:


and that is fine for you...your point?



On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, DAMON GRAY wrote:


Karen, my hardware choice (old Pentium II) is because the motherboard has an 
ISA slot that I want for the Gravis Ultrasound sound card. Otherwise, I'd be 
fine with current generation hardware.



On 02/24/2024 12:01 PM PST Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user 
 wrote:


Hi Liam,
I have a question about this advice?
granted, I have made  no secret of my using, having specific computers
built  to construct DOS, rather than simply choosing older hardware.
Perhaps that care makes a difference.
However, I am, right now, using full DOS booted from my harddrive typing
with  a USB keyboard.  I have experienced no problems, am not even running
an extra USB driver yet, its simply done from the  bios.
Is there a pattern others should seek in hardware, companies, motherboards
and the like that  can lead to comparative results for them?
Its more of an intellectual question to ask, I realize I  take greater care
than many here with my hardware choices.
Best,
Karen



On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 03:21, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse and 
keyboard.


No, it won't.

But in my limited testing, what I found that might is this:

Install DOS onto a USB key, and boot from that, not from a HDD partition.

On some firmware, this makes the BIOS do lots of USB handling and
emulation and things work better.

--
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Understood.
Someone posted asking how I did my job with DOS, I provided examples.



On Wed, 28 Feb 2024, Micha�~B Dec wrote:


Hello Karen,

Please keep the discussion on-topic. This is a FreeDOS user discussion 
mailing list, not a WEF summit.


Best regards,

Michał

W dniu 27.02.2024 o 21:45, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user pisze:

 If our goals resonate, consider donating.
 worth a tax write off in some countries.. 


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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2 (fwd)

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Speaking very personally, The choice to define emotion to an email post is 
just that, the choice of the reader.
I do not write people privately on list, without asking for their 
consent list first.
When others write me privately without invitation, from a mailing list, it 
is still list intended as far as I am concerned.
No one else need follow my choices, with my doing this due to some of my 
history of sex assault.




On Wed, 28 Feb 2024, Linvel Risner via Freedos-user wrote:


It's a small enough community, I think if we reigned in the emotions and
hurt feelings we could all prosper.

I don't imagine we have a forum, just an email list, right? Are there other
resources besides the wiki that I'm missing?

I'm trying to research written programming guides, although maybe I should
just watch the Jim Hall video sets.

Thanks, and have a blessed day y'all.

On Wed, Feb 28, 2024 at 8:26???AM Liam Proven via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 at 14:42, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I dare say you intended this for the list.


You continue to be just amazingly rude and hostile.

You mailed me privately offlist. I did you the courtesy of replying
the same way.

You put it back on the list.

Previously I had killfiled you. I only saw your mail because I removed
that filter. I will reinstate it as soon as I hit "send" on this
message.

I have tried to help you twice now. You have in both cases responded
with vitriol and abuse. Never again.


--
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2 (fwd)

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

No, I send emails only  on list.
I have no idea  how things present for  You, but I never write anyone off list 
without  asking first.

In fact, i was commenting in thread to your advice about USB key usage.



On Wed, 28 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Mon, 26 Feb 2024 at 14:42, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I dare say you intended this for the list.


You continue to be just amazingly rude and hostile.

You mailed me privately offlist. I did you the courtesy of replying
the same way.

You put it back on the list.

Previously I had killfiled you. I only saw your mail because I removed
that filter. I will reinstate it as soon as I hit "send" on this
message.

I have tried to help you twice now. You have in both cases responded
with vitriol and abuse. Never again.


--
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

And for the record, I do my jobs just fine.
www.curtainupdistribution.org
Samples  under both the harfeld artistry and common ground media program 
areas, of my radio work at least.

If our goals resonate, consider donating.
worth a tax write off in some countries..
Karen



On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Joao Silva wrote:


Hi.

Yes.

For me i never worked with DOS machines...

I don't know what kind of work you do/preform with DOS, since you're
journalist, i assume you do a lot of writing and can't imagine you browsing
website with html5, java script and so on.

I don't know everything, something i would mind to know... could help more
people. By the way i'm computer Tech., nowadays i do tech support by
voip/presence on Hospital, replace some sdd, fried power supply.

If i had to rank the OS it would be:

PC-DOS 5/7
MS-DOS 6.22
FreeDOS
Linux, Debian
BeOS/Haiku
Windows 95/98/XP/7/(10 with no internet)

Obviously lot of people disagree with my choice and it's fine.

I'll end saying this: I'm not diminishing you or your by using DOS or my
choice to use Linux instead of Windows/Mac (to close for me, i have the
need take things apart), i can do everything i need on Linux if i could
with FreeDOS i was dual booting or "dual HDD" (not SSD).

It's what get the job done and more efficient way.

...and thank you.

On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 6:47???PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


That is your opinion, from your lived experience.
For me, speaking personally, my machines running DOS are for me to work,
connect with the outside world, read write and so forth.
Its funny, the one thing I almost never do with my computers is play lol.
Is it not terrific we can both get our needs met?
Kare



On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Joao Silva via Freedos-user wrote:


Hello.

Let me stick my nose in...

MS-DOS, PC-DOS, FreeDOS today is for thoses who want, need or want to

play.


My first pc was a 286 IBM, still have it and it's my pride and joy...

don't

use it since 2004.

In my case is for gaming, i asked here about the speaker on laptops and

is

a no go, no sound.

My main pc i use linux and i have come to terms i gave in to dosbox and

its

variants, don't use VMs it's not the same thing and also no speaker

support

although, Mr. Jim Hall at the time showed me the command for Qemu...

Now i have a Inter Core 2 Duo with FreeDOS/Linux/Windows 11 and Batocera,
have speaker sound, but comes out clunky and some games don't run or have
graphical issues.

Some business require DOS to do some workflow and i can only see 2

choices:

stick with DOS and try to overcome the hurdles or Upgrade to
Linux/Windows/Mac

I came to discover that you use what have to accomplish the task at hand,
not imposing what i think is best for me to other.

If i could i had DOS as my OS, it's fast booting, load what you need and
it's done...

And thank you...


On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 6:06???PM DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Karen, my hardware choice (old Pentium II) is because the motherboard

has

an ISA slot that I want for the Gravis Ultrasound sound card. Otherwise,
I'd be fine with current generation hardware.



On 02/24/2024 12:01 PM PST Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <

freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:



Hi Liam,
I have a question about this advice?
granted, I have made  no secret of my using, having specific computers
built  to construct DOS, rather than simply choosing older hardware.
Perhaps that care makes a difference.
However, I am, right now, using full DOS booted from my harddrive

typing

with  a USB keyboard.  I have experienced no problems, am not even

running

an extra USB driver yet, its simply done from the  bios.
Is there a pattern others should seek in hardware, companies,

motherboards

and the like that  can lead to comparative results for them?
Its more of an intellectual question to ask, I realize I  take greater

care

than many here with my hardware choices.
Best,
Karen



On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 03:21, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse

and keyboard.


No, it won't.

But in my limited testing, what I found that might is this:

Install DOS onto a USB key, and boot from that, not from a HDD

partition.


On some firmware, this makes the BIOS do lots of USB handling and
emulation and things work better.

--
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2 (fwd)

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

What is with the off list messages?
Ask on list,  I will simply share them here anyway.




-- Forwarded message --
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2024 19:16:05 +
From: Joao Silva 
To: Karen Lewellen 
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

Hi.

Yes.

For me i never worked with DOS machines...

I don't know what kind of work you do/preform with DOS, since you're
journalist, i assume you do a lot of writing and can't imagine you browsing
website with html5, java script and so on.

I don't know everything, something i would mind to know... could help more
people. By the way i'm computer Tech., nowadays i do tech support by
voip/presence on Hospital, replace some sdd, fried power supply.

If i had to rank the OS it would be:

PC-DOS 5/7
MS-DOS 6.22
FreeDOS
Linux, Debian
BeOS/Haiku
Windows 95/98/XP/7/(10 with no internet)

Obviously lot of people disagree with my choice and it's fine.

I'll end saying this: I'm not diminishing you or your by using DOS or my
choice to use Linux instead of Windows/Mac (to close for me, i have the
need take things apart), i can do everything i need on Linux if i could
with FreeDOS i was dual booting or "dual HDD" (not SSD).

It's what get the job done and more efficient way.

...and thank you.

On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 6:47???PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


That is your opinion, from your lived experience.
For me, speaking personally, my machines running DOS are for me to work,
connect with the outside world, read write and so forth.
Its funny, the one thing I almost never do with my computers is play lol.
Is it not terrific we can both get our needs met?
Kare



On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Joao Silva via Freedos-user wrote:


Hello.

Let me stick my nose in...

MS-DOS, PC-DOS, FreeDOS today is for thoses who want, need or want to

play.


My first pc was a 286 IBM, still have it and it's my pride and joy...

don't

use it since 2004.

In my case is for gaming, i asked here about the speaker on laptops and

is

a no go, no sound.

My main pc i use linux and i have come to terms i gave in to dosbox and

its

variants, don't use VMs it's not the same thing and also no speaker

support

although, Mr. Jim Hall at the time showed me the command for Qemu...

Now i have a Inter Core 2 Duo with FreeDOS/Linux/Windows 11 and Batocera,
have speaker sound, but comes out clunky and some games don't run or have
graphical issues.

Some business require DOS to do some workflow and i can only see 2

choices:

stick with DOS and try to overcome the hurdles or Upgrade to
Linux/Windows/Mac

I came to discover that you use what have to accomplish the task at hand,
not imposing what i think is best for me to other.

If i could i had DOS as my OS, it's fast booting, load what you need and
it's done...

And thank you...


On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 6:06???PM DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Karen, my hardware choice (old Pentium II) is because the motherboard

has

an ISA slot that I want for the Gravis Ultrasound sound card. Otherwise,
I'd be fine with current generation hardware.



On 02/24/2024 12:01 PM PST Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <

freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:



Hi Liam,
I have a question about this advice?
granted, I have made  no secret of my using, having specific computers
built  to construct DOS, rather than simply choosing older hardware.
Perhaps that care makes a difference.
However, I am, right now, using full DOS booted from my harddrive

typing

with  a USB keyboard.  I have experienced no problems, am not even

running

an extra USB driver yet, its simply done from the  bios.
Is there a pattern others should seek in hardware, companies,

motherboards

and the like that  can lead to comparative results for them?
Its more of an intellectual question to ask, I realize I  take greater

care

than many here with my hardware choices.
Best,
Karen



On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 03:21, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse

and keyboard.


No, it won't.

But in my limited testing, what I found that might is this:

Install DOS onto a USB key, and boot from that, not from a HDD

partition.


On some firmware, this makes the BIOS do lots of USB handling and
emulation and things work better.

--
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

That is your opinion, from your lived experience.
For me, speaking personally, my machines running DOS are for me to work, 
connect with the outside world, read write and so forth.

Its funny, the one thing I almost never do with my computers is play lol.
Is it not terrific we can both get our needs met?
Kare



On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Joao Silva via Freedos-user wrote:


Hello.

Let me stick my nose in...

MS-DOS, PC-DOS, FreeDOS today is for thoses who want, need or want to play.

My first pc was a 286 IBM, still have it and it's my pride and joy... don't
use it since 2004.

In my case is for gaming, i asked here about the speaker on laptops and is
a no go, no sound.

My main pc i use linux and i have come to terms i gave in to dosbox and its
variants, don't use VMs it's not the same thing and also no speaker support
although, Mr. Jim Hall at the time showed me the command for Qemu...

Now i have a Inter Core 2 Duo with FreeDOS/Linux/Windows 11 and Batocera,
have speaker sound, but comes out clunky and some games don't run or have
graphical issues.

Some business require DOS to do some workflow and i can only see 2 choices:
stick with DOS and try to overcome the hurdles or Upgrade to
Linux/Windows/Mac

I came to discover that you use what have to accomplish the task at hand,
not imposing what i think is best for me to other.

If i could i had DOS as my OS, it's fast booting, load what you need and
it's done...

And thank you...


On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 6:06???PM DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Karen, my hardware choice (old Pentium II) is because the motherboard has
an ISA slot that I want for the Gravis Ultrasound sound card. Otherwise,
I'd be fine with current generation hardware.



On 02/24/2024 12:01 PM PST Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <

freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:



Hi Liam,
I have a question about this advice?
granted, I have made  no secret of my using, having specific computers
built  to construct DOS, rather than simply choosing older hardware.
Perhaps that care makes a difference.
However, I am, right now, using full DOS booted from my harddrive typing
with  a USB keyboard.  I have experienced no problems, am not even

running

an extra USB driver yet, its simply done from the  bios.
Is there a pattern others should seek in hardware, companies,

motherboards

and the like that  can lead to comparative results for them?
Its more of an intellectual question to ask, I realize I  take greater

care

than many here with my hardware choices.
Best,
Karen



On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 03:21, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse

and keyboard.


No, it won't.

But in my limited testing, what I found that might is this:

Install DOS onto a USB key, and boot from that, not from a HDD

partition.


On some firmware, this makes the BIOS do lots of USB handling and
emulation and things work better.

--
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

 and that is fine for you...your point?



On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, DAMON GRAY wrote:


Karen, my hardware choice (old Pentium II) is because the motherboard has an 
ISA slot that I want for the Gravis Ultrasound sound card. Otherwise, I'd be 
fine with current generation hardware.



On 02/24/2024 12:01 PM PST Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user 
 wrote:


Hi Liam,
I have a question about this advice?
granted, I have made  no secret of my using, having specific computers
built  to construct DOS, rather than simply choosing older hardware.
Perhaps that care makes a difference.
However, I am, right now, using full DOS booted from my harddrive typing
with  a USB keyboard.  I have experienced no problems, am not even running
an extra USB driver yet, its simply done from the  bios.
Is there a pattern others should seek in hardware, companies, motherboards
and the like that  can lead to comparative results for them?
Its more of an intellectual question to ask, I realize I  take greater care
than many here with my hardware choices.
Best,
Karen



On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 03:21, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse and 
keyboard.


No, it won't.

But in my limited testing, what I found that might is this:

Install DOS onto a USB key, and boot from that, not from a HDD partition.

On some firmware, this makes the BIOS do lots of USB handling and
emulation and things work better.

--
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053


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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2 (fwd)

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Wow, I bow, salute, toast your brilliance here!
Clearly you are owning the personal in personal computing with intelligence 
and  skill.
Why should someone not using your technology decide what is *modern* for 
you anyway?
While this does not apply to my personal choices, I am so so thrilled 
reading how you are defining your own.
The points you make about  external services  is an interesting one, and 
about keyboards..I might add security and privacy risks as well.
If modern software creations also allow someone to create fake nude images 
of a person and plaster them anywhere?
Exactly how does this modern advance, not limit technology in a positive 
way?

Thanks for your wisdom!
Kare



On Tue, 27 Feb 2024, Thomas Cornelius Desi via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi Michael,

with great interest I was reading your thoughts about DOS.

Let me add from my personal experience:

The tech gap between DOS (FREEDOS) and WINDOWS/MAC honestly made me going back 
and forth between those OS options.

I tried to make up my mind in the following way: What do I get from working on 
DOS?

The answer in one word: SIMPLICITY

I know: computers are complicated and complex by »nature«.


But there is a level of accessibility which is till ok. It still »feels« simple.

SIMPLICITY for me encompasses also »quiteness of mind« in the sense, that I 
don’t want to deal anymore with all those forced »updates« of OS and software. 
Plain »no«.

Why? Because: I am only writing texts (prose), and I don’t want to deal with 
tech problems and feel plain stupid on a regular basis when those »updates« 
come in again. (Please bare with me, I am German native speaker)

Writing text has been included in Computers maybe in the 1970ies or so… It 
isn’t what computers were invented for, we must not forget this. Since then, 
ALL POSSIBLE PROBLEMS of text authoring have been solved!

This is why I immensely appreciate the FREEDOS project (Jim Hall ed.al thank 
you!) to adopt the DOS simplicity to some lightly modern compatibility (call it 
»USB«), I would say.

Simplicity is to not have literally thousands of files somewhere digged into 
vast spaces of GIGA and TERA bytes of storage on my harddisk without have the 
faintest idea about that huge digital landfill.

I don’t use a harddisk. I use one USB Stick per project, each one has the basic 
KERNEL and AUTEXEC.BAT on it, and each USB Stick has a different color and some 
description. My computer even does not start without a stick (!)

Writing (drafting)  is done with the »e 1.4« text editor of 7 kB (Yes: seven Kilobyte) by 
David Nye, MD, 1991 (!) ( see: 
https://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=E.Com&diffrevision=5
 )

Revisioning is done with the excellent VDE Editor v197 (sic!), by Eric Meyer. 
Brillant piece of software! Never fails, no bugs, no crashes, no updates. With 
a version number that high, 197, am sure, problems have been sorted out a long 
time ago.

And regarding USB/BIOS...: I use all sorts of Keyboards and Touchpads, 
Trackpads, a Foot-Pedal and I built my own keyboard, just to advance more on 
the ergonomic side which was neglected in the industry in order to please 
everybody on the consumer side.

It is not the computer or the software that writes my texts, yes, true, but - -
I found out that it is the modern OS (internet, cloud, ordinary office task, 
email, notifications etc etc) which interrupts, distracts and impedes my 
writing.

My approach is not about nostalgia or an outlandish freak’n nerdism, but my 
refusing of the unnecessary.

Basic take away: Computers should be much more specifically built to what they 
are used for. This »single task« metaphore is my motto.


Why not re-read: "Small Is Beautiful: A Study of Economics As If People 
Mattered is a collection of essays«  (1973 by E. F. Schumacher)

Thomas





On 27.02.2024, at 01:11, Michael Brutman via Freedos-user 
 wrote:

I'm just kind of amazed at what I read here at times.

It is no secret that DOS is no longer a mainstream operating system.  As a result, 
support for it on physical hardware is minimal, if it is supported at all.  Modern 
machines are just not intended to be used with DOS as the primary, "bare metal" 
operating system.

A lot of us are here because we like DOS but most of us don't try to force-fit 
into places where it doesn't work.  When there is a better, supported solution 
for something it often makes more sense to use that instead of trying to make 
it work under DOS.  There are many examples of things where DOS is great and 
even fun, but many more examples where DOS is not a suitable solution.

This isn't controversial or hostile.  It is reality.

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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2 (fwd)

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

I absolutely respect those choices.
I feel reasonably certain that allot of you hare are not managing my 
combination of experiences leading to my choices.

I do not expect anyone to follow my path, you are not me.
it surprises me though that others expect me to follow yours, when I am 
not you.




On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Michael Brutman via Freedos-user wrote:


I'm just kind of amazed at what I read here at times.

It is no secret that DOS is no longer a mainstream operating system.  As a
result, support for it on physical hardware is minimal, if it is supported
at all.  Modern machines are just not intended to be used with DOS as the
primary, "bare metal" operating system.

A lot of us are here because we like DOS but most of us don't try to
force-fit into places where it doesn't work.  When there is a better,
supported solution for something it often makes more sense to use that
instead of trying to make it work under DOS.  There are many examples of
things where DOS is great and even fun, but many more examples where DOS is
not a suitable solution.

This isn't controversial or hostile.  It is reality.




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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2 (fwd)

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi again,
I dare say you intended this for the list.
I have answered this question many many times.
Speaking personally as a credentialed journalist myself, I find it a bit 
concerning that anyone who writes as a reporter believes that a shared 
label makes a shared experience, as in all those who are called a, are 
interchangeable for one another.
many a war flowing around such generalizations, speaking personally   you 
do your  friends a profound disservice not considering them to 
be individuals with unique experiences preferences and goals.
And..this is a DOS list.  If you dislike the platform, speaking 
personally, why are you here?

Best,
Karen



-- Forwarded message --
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2024 13:31:35 +
From: Liam Proven 
To: Karen Lewellen 
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

I really don't know. Perhaps you have been very lucky, or perhaps
there was an era of late BIOS-based systems during which BIOS-based
USB handling reached a peak.

Sadly now any maker who wants a sticker proclaiming the right to claim
their kit as compatible with Windows 11 must make it UEFI only, with
secure boot on by default, and no legacy BIOS C.S.M. in that UEFI.
Such a machine cannot boot DOS and unless someone somewhere does some
heroic programming it never will.

As it happens, some of my closest friends are blind and most of them
are computer users. I am a professional computer journalist and I do
try to regularly address accessibility issues.

I do have to ask why, given the increasing difficulty of keeping DOS
working in the 21st century, why you cling to it so hard? There are
very highly accessible alternatives available now, several of them for
free.



--
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053


On Sat, 24 Feb 2024 at 20:01, Karen Lewellen  wrote:


Hi Liam,
I have a question about this advice?
granted, I have made  no secret of my using, having specific computers
built  to construct DOS, rather than simply choosing older hardware.
Perhaps that care makes a difference.
However, I am, right now, using full DOS booted from my harddrive typing
with  a USB keyboard.  I have experienced no problems, am not even running
an extra USB driver yet, its simply done from the  bios.
Is there a pattern others should seek in hardware, companies, motherboards
and the like that  can lead to comparative results for them?
Its more of an intellectual question to ask, I realize I  take greater care
than many here with my hardware choices.
Best,
Karen



On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 03:21, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse and 
keyboard.


No, it won't.

But in my limited testing, what I found that might is this:

Install DOS onto a USB key, and boot from that, not from a HDD partition.

On some firmware, this makes the BIOS do lots of USB handling and
emulation and things work better.

--
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Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053


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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Liam,
I have a question about this advice?
granted, I have made  no secret of my using, having specific computers 
built  to construct DOS, rather than simply choosing older hardware.

Perhaps that care makes a difference.
However, I am, right now, using full DOS booted from my harddrive typing 
with  a USB keyboard.  I have experienced no problems, am not even running 
an extra USB driver yet, its simply done from the  bios.
Is there a pattern others should seek in hardware, companies, motherboards 
and the like that  can lead to comparative results for them?
Its more of an intellectual question to ask, I realize I  take greater care 
than many here with my hardware choices.

Best,
Karen



On Sat, 24 Feb 2024, Liam Proven via Freedos-user wrote:


On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 at 03:21, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user
 wrote:


I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse and 
keyboard.


No, it won't.

But in my limited testing, what I found that might is this:

Install DOS onto a USB key, and boot from that, not from a HDD partition.

On some firmware, this makes the BIOS do lots of USB handling and
emulation and things work better.

--
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
IoM: (+44) 7624 277612: UK: (+44) 7939-087884
Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053


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Re: [Freedos-user] "Upgrade" from MS-DOS 6.2.2

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Damon,
Just want to ask a couple of quick  questions.
First, likely this is yes, the bios for your machine does support USB?
Second, does the USB Dos tools you tried include the DOS driver made by 
Panasonic?
I have not used MS Dos 6.22 personally in  decades, and have never 
overlyed freedos at all, so will leave that aspect of your question to 
others.

Kare



On Thu, 22 Feb 2024, DAMON GRAY via Freedos-user wrote:


Greetings all.

I have a working MS-DOS system running on 6.2.2 but it has gigantical problems 
with the USB Mouse. I've attempted multiple USB DOS driver solutions. Some work 
half the time. Others not so much.

I'm working on the assumption that FreeDos will handle the USB mouse and 
keyboard. But here's the challenge...

I don't want to start from scratch. There was a lot involved in getting this 
system set up as it is, particularly with regard to the Gravis Ultrasound card.

Is it possible to just "upgrade" this MS-DOS to FreeDos, or is starting from 
scratch my only option? I'm very much hoping that I'll be able install FreeDos over the 
top of MS-DOS.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

Damon J. Gray
Lynden, WA



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Re: [Freedos-user] what cd rom drivers does freedos use?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi bret,



On Sun, 4 Feb 2024, Bret Johnson wrote:



I looked up a little bit about DECtalk.  It looks like the earlier versions 
used a serial port but the later versions plugged directly into an ISA slot.  I 
assume you have one of the later versions?  I can't imagine how one that works 
with a serial port would have a hardware compatibility issue.


Hi Bret,
Actually you have that information in the wrong order.
Portable synthesizers that used serial ports, the dectalk Express
for example came after the internal cards.
The Isa slot edition, the one I have installed now was followed
by a PCI  slot edition.  Serial port
options, the above referenced express, my reading edge, those
were next.  There is actually currently a Dectalk USB synthesizer
as well.

Anyway, below is the exact information on the CD rom conflict.
There is a utility that shifts the i/a address dectalk uses, but
it does not fix the driver problem.
Here is what the documentation says:


 Conflict with DECtalk and EIDE CD-ROM Drivers.

We have found that the DECtalk hardware will not work with PCs
that have certain EIDE CDROMs intalled.

Some of the CDROMs are manufactured by ACER and Mitsumi and one
of the driver names in CONFIG.SYS is VIDE_CDD.

The problem apparently is caused by the DECtalk and CDROM drivers
trying to use the same software interrupt (different than
hardware IRQs).

Thanks for your ideas,

Karen


Hardware compatibility issues are usually either with Interrupt (IRQ) or I/O 
port conflicts, but IDE/ATAPI was such a widespread standard that it's hard to 
imagine how DECtalk would have a conflict with those.

Does the information you've found give any indication as to what the conflict 
might actually be?

--
Bret Johnson
It's oft been said that the Devil is in the Details.  I disagree completely.  I 
say God is in the Details -- the Devil is in the Fluff.




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Re: [Freedos-user] what cd rom drivers does freedos use?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Bret,
The comparability issue is not in vied_cdd.sys
It is in the dectalk drivers itself.
I have the hardware driver for my cd and DVD rom drives, when vide_cdd.sys 
is  run, it references the hardware drive in its command.

Will dig up those alternatives, thank you.
Kare



On Sun, 4 Feb 2024, Bret Johnson wrote:





The driver providing an issue is one called vide_cdd


I found this reference to the file:

https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/VIDE-CDD.SYS

It doesn't mention any compatibility issues, but does say it's very small 
compared to most other drivers which may be why it has problems (there might be 
something missing that needs to be in there).

It also seems to indicate it's a "generic" IDE driver so should work with many 
CD drives.


Do you know of a comparative substitute?


I think I would try OAKCDROM.SYS.  I see it referenced a lot as a good driver 
that works with many IDE CD drives.  I just looked and the one I use on my 
desktop computer is called AOATAPI.SYS, but I don't remember how I came to use 
that one -- I set it up a long time ago and my memory is not that good.  I 
think you should be able to search the Internet and find a way to download both 
of those.  I rarely use CDs myself, but am adding support for USB CD/DVD drives 
to my USB drivers.


Would that substitute have to work with only specific cdrom or
dvdrom drives?


I think either OAKCDROM or AOATAPI should work with most CD/DVD drives.  As I 
stated earlier, very early CD drives were proprietary and needed hardware-specific 
drivers, but after IDE & ATAPI became popular things became pretty standardized 
and generic drivers will work with most hardware.




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Re: [Freedos-user] what cd rom drivers does freedos use?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

The dectalk driver is not loaded from config.sys.
Its why finding a substitute is preferred.



On Fri, 2 Feb 2024, tauro 111 via Freedos-user wrote:


So your DECTalk driver refuses to be installed once the VIDE-CDD driver has 
been installed, did I understand you correctly?
What about changing the order in which your CONFIG.SYS loads the drivers?
Load first the DECTalk driver (no conflicts) and after that, VIDE-CDD. If they 
can't coexist at all that's trickier.
You could also do what Rugxulo suggested:

Can't you just edit a CONFIG.SYS menu option to let you optionally>boot without 
DecTalk when needing to access a physical CD-ROM?

About the FreeDOS drivers, as far as I know, FreeDOS uses GCDROM and UDVD2 as 
CD/DVD drivers.
GCDROM was designed for SATA but works with IDE too apparently.
You can try them both and see how to it goes, here are some links:
GCDROMhttp://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.3/drivers/gcdrom.zip
UDVD2:https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/1.3/drivers/udvd2.zip
   On Friday, February 2, 2024 at 02:01:21 AM GMT-3, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user 
 wrote:

Humor is an individual thing.
The package I use incorporates ms DOS 7.1 with a number of utilities
updated?? from 6.22.
I have scores of reasons for preferring the package, using a full sized USB
keyboard as I am doing now to write this email?? is just one of them.
Greater memory and hard drive capacity, at least in my personal
experience, 7.1 is the DOS infrastructure under Windows 98 se, even broader
processor speed.
but that is me. I am a firm believer in the Personal in personal computer,
would not expect another person to make choices based on my own..we are
different people after all.
Kare



On Thu, 1 Feb 2024, andrew fabbro wrote:


On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 4:29???PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Forcibly demand?
What an interesting choice of term..why not did the job for which i
contracted them?



He was making a joke as a way of asking why you would want to run MS-DOS
7.1.

IIRC it was never intended to be a standalone product.?? I'm curious what
the personal reasons are, or what 7.1 gives you that 6.22 (or FreeDOS)
can't.

--
andrew fabbro
and...@fabbro.org
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Re: [Freedos-user] what cd rom drivers does freedos use?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Humor is an individual thing.
The package I use incorporates ms DOS 7.1 with a number of utilities 
updated  from 6.22.
I have scores of reasons for preferring the package, using a full sized USB 
keyboard as I am doing now to write this email  is just one of them.
Greater memory and hard drive capacity, at least in my personal 
experience, 7.1 is the DOS infrastructure under Windows 98 se, even broader 
processor speed.
but that is me. I am a firm believer in the Personal in personal computer, 
would not expect another person to make choices based on my own..we are 
different people after all.

Kare



On Thu, 1 Feb 2024, andrew fabbro wrote:


On Fri, Jan 26, 2024 at 4:29???PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Forcibly demand?
What an interesting choice of term..why not did the job for which i
contracted them?



He was making a joke as a way of asking why you would want to run MS-DOS
7.1.

IIRC it was never intended to be a standalone product.  I'm curious what
the personal reasons are, or what 7.1 gives you that 6.22 (or FreeDOS)
can't.

--
andrew fabbro
and...@fabbro.org
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Re: [Freedos-user] What cd-rom drivers does FreeDOS use ?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

certainly,
I use a number of adaptive technology tools due to the experience of sight 
loss.
One of those tools is internal speech synthesizer card  built by digital 
equipment corporation called the dectalk.
For  some reason developers of the software, the program has drivers to 
which other screen reading programs communicate, share that  those drivers 
will  not load correctly  if  the driver I referenced is loaded.  there is 
an assumed but not actual,  address conflict,  between both this driver, 
and some actual cd 
rom brands.
What results is that you cannot use  the cd rom or DVD rom drive and also 
use the speech.
As I require both, I seek an alternative to the  referenced vide_cdd 
driver.

Does that help?
Karen



On Fri, 2 Feb 2024, Jose Senna via Freedos-user wrote:


Karen Llewellen said:

The driver providing an issue is one called vide_cdd


Would you please tell what is the issue ?



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Re: [Freedos-user] what cd rom drivers does freedos use?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Bret,
Sorry busy hands.
The driver providing an issue is one called
vide_cdd
According to  dectalk documentation ide cdroms made by asser and another 
company  had challenges too, but the  driver listed above  presented the 
largest challenge.
My units are not that old, but I am using this driver with the hardware 
one for  my  cdrom.  I do have other units here, but only that vide_cdd 
driver is consistently referenced.

Do you know of a comparative substitute?
Would that substitute have to work with only specific cdrom or dvdrom 
drives?

Thanks,
Karen



On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, Bret Johnson via Freedos-user wrote:


Karen:

Do you know which of the two CD-ROM drivers you are having trouble with?

It takes two drivers to install a CD in DOS.  One is the hardware-specific driver that may come with the CD 
hardware itself, but there are also several of them (like OAKCDROM.SYS) that will work with different 
hardware if they are "standard" enough (early CD hardware was not standard at all).  The 
"output" of this driver is a character device that has a name, and all this driver does is provide 
access to the sectors on the disk -- it doesn't actually "understand" what the data is (e.g., 
whether it is a music CD or a data CD or something else).

The second driver is usually MSCDEX, but there are also several clones of MSCDEX (e.g., SHSUCDX and NWCDEX).  
That driver "interfaces" with the first driver (you must tell MSCDEX what the name of the first 
driver is) and the "output" is a drive letter (a block device instead of a character device) that 
DOS can use (like D:) to access the files.  Just like with floppies and hard drives where you can have 
different kinds of formatting (FAT12, FAT16, FAT32, exFAT, NTFS, HPFS, etc.), you can also have different 
kinds of formatting on CDs, DVDs, and BDs.  The second driver is the one that needs to "understand" 
the different kinds of formatting to be able to turn it into a drive letter.


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Re: [Freedos-user] what cd rom drivers does freedos use?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Forcibly demand?
What an interesting choice of term..why not did the job for which i 
contracted them?




On Fri, 26 Jan 2024, Rugxulo via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi Karen,

On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 10:18 PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user
 wrote:


As many may recall I run msdos 7.1 instead of freedos for several personal
reasons.


Do the volunteers (engineers?) who help you set up your systems
forcibly demand MS-DOS 7.1 exactly?

We've discussed this before, so I'm not really trying to change your
mind on it, just curious. (Why specifically MS-DOS? Why not DR-DOS? Or
Datalight ROM-DOS?)


I recently had a new machine built, just before Christmas, which  also
included my  installing an external dectalk card, I have an ISA slot, the
ling kind on this board.
While the synthesizer works well, using it to support my writing this
message, I have an odd problem.
The dectalk software has a conflict that seems to impact cdrom drives, or
the driver provided by Microsoft.


Can't you just edit a CONFIG.SYS menu option to let you optionally
boot without DecTalk when needing to access a physical CD-ROM?

(BTW, dual boot with another OS is another possibility.)


It is more than addresses, dectalk provides a way to locate a free one,
user guides for both dectalk 4.1, what I am running, and 4.2 reference the
driver issue.
The suggested solution did not work..however I need a cd rom drive for
scores of reasons.


I assume you mean a modern DVD drive (20x speed or whatever) or
possibly DVD-RW or such.


leading to my question.
Often on list I have read that freedos is in many ways better than MS DOS,
with programs able to run under freedos.


FreeDOS is strongly compatible and "Free" (libre), but not necessarily
"better" in all ways, no.


I now have a chance to test that theory, swapping in the cd rom driver
freedos provides as a test?
my driver again is not specific to my cd rom..never has been.
Instead I use the basic driver supplied with ms dos 7.1, never having a
problem until now.


MS-DOS 7.1 was never a standalone product (unlike MS-DOS 6.22). It was
bundled as part of Win95 or Win98 or whatever variant. So I don't know
what came with it: OAKCDROM.SYS?


What does Freedos provide with that kind of universal flexibility?


I can only point you to the FreeDOS mirror on iBiblio:

* https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/cdrom/

But it's been years since I've bothered with physical CDs. (My 2022
Linux laptop has no optical drive, for instance.)


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[Freedos-user] what cd rom drivers does freedos use?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
Here is why I am asking.
As many may recall I run msdos 7.1 instead of freedos for several personal 
reasons.
I recently had a new machine built, just before Christmas, which  also 
included my  installing an external dectalk card, I have an ISA slot, the 
ling kind on this board.
While the synthesizer works well, using it to support my writing this 
message, I have an odd problem.
The dectalk software has a conflict that seems to impact cdrom drives, or 
the driver provided by Microsoft.
It is more than addresses, dectalk provides a way to locate a free one, 
user guides for both dectalk 4.1, what I am running, and 4.2 reference the 
driver issue.
The suggested solution did not work..however I need a cd rom drive for 
scores of reasons.

leading to my question.
Often on list I have read that freedos is in many ways better than MS DOS, 
with programs able to run under freedos.
I now have a chance to test that theory, swapping in the cd rom driver 
freedos provides as a test?

my driver again is not specific to my cd rom..never has been.
Instead I use the basic driver supplied with ms dos 7.1, never having a 
problem until now.

What does Freedos provide with that kind of universal flexibility?
Thanks,
Kare




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Re: [Freedos-user] roundcube, is freedos, or dos based mail clients?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi,
a few years back, before the Pandemic, we had a serious Shellworld crash. 
At the time I sought to contact them, did not reach a person, however.
Likewise  at the time, I believe? they did not allow mail to be sent.  it 
has been a few years.
Will try to contact them once more, even if all they do is  give me a 
place for my gmail content, one to use for forwarding, and a replacement 
for those communications, it will be worth the extra anything.

With appreciation,
Karen L



On Fri, 24 Nov 2023, Michael Brutman via Freedos-user wrote:


It's difficult to follow all of the details of the discussion.

Have you ever looked at getting a shell account on sdf.org?  It still
supports plain old Telnet I think it comes with an email address.  They
support POP3 and IMAP access to the email too.

Links and Lynx are available there when using Telnet, but it doesn't look
like either have Javascript enabled.




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Re: [Freedos-user] roundcube, is freedos, or dos based mail clients?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi,
When the individual setting up my test actually checked the send button, 
he documented that it is not coded correctly likely why it appears three 
different ways in different browsers.
I am not using the editor provided by roundcube to compose, instead my 
editor is set as a part of each browser in their own configuration files, 
pico in all three cases.
Therefore when i reached the edit box say to compose  a message, I simply 
used the command to start my own editor.
Speaking personally, what roundcube does does not mean other webmail 
programs will create the send button the same.  JavaScript is a Language, 
and as I shared normally even Lynx can submit such buttons using a 
keystroke that is part of the more current editions, 2021 or later.
So, it can certainly be fixed, if a human can be reached.  Forum uses 
image captcha to register though.




On Fri, 24 Nov 2023, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



Hi!

Thanks for your roundcube webmail tests! Both interesting
and annoying that most features work with most text based
browsers - except sending mail, due to JS in the send button!


 Anyone at all know if roundcube has a support team?
 This tool could be amazing with some slight JavaScript fixes.


https://roundcube.net/support/

lists a community forum, bug tracker, several mailing
lists (probably not what you need) and an IRC chat.

The bug tracker, forum and chat should help you.

A quick search in the forum suggests that roundcube used
an editor called tinymce to compose mails, I wonder if
it would be possible to switch off the editor to be able
to write mails with less javascript usage?

It may help to switch to text-only instead of HTML mail
composition, if there is an option which lets you choose.

There is an interactive drop down menu to edit either in
HTML or plain text, but I guess that uses a script, too?

User preferences or configuration should have an option
compose HTML messages, choices always / never or similar.

Related keywords may include HTML editor or rich text.

https://github.com/roundcube/roundcubemail/issues/5937
"Send a reply and archive in one action button" is vaguely
related because whoever addresses that feature request
will also know how send buttons are to be processed.

Trying to find an answer on roundcubeforum.net I got
the impression that people did not get answers at all
when their questions were not specific/detailed enough.

Sometimes people report that send mail button does not
do anything and got the reply that the roundcube server
was misconfigured. I guess this can be excluded in your
case and you have tested that sending DOES work okay if
a fully javascript enabled web browser is used?

Some skins (graphical look and feel choices) appear to
have send buttons arranged in different ways. Sometimes
there is more than one send button visible at the same
time, with the extra buttons using javascript to "press"
the main button, if I read correctly between the lines.

There also seems to be the issue that TAB switches to
the next form field or button (for example send) which
annoys people who want to type TAB as part of a mail.
If roundcube manipulates this, it may affect usability.

https://www.roundcubeforum.net/index.php/topic,29737.msg75552.html
has somebody find out that their browser plugins interfere
with whether the send button works. Not helpful for your
problem, but suggests that this button indeed contains
more complexity than necessary in some way.

I am probably not very good in navigating advanced search
in forum or bug list. Maybe asking on IRC works better?

Regards, Eric




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[Freedos-user] roundcube, is freedos, or dos based mail clients?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
reporting back as a member of the greater Toronto Linux users group likes 
playing..allot, with mailbox configuration, hosting his own.
As he uses roundcube, he created a way for me to text, creating an account 
and so forth.
because the link was simple I could test in lynx, in links, and in elinks, 
as compiled here at shellworld.

almost everything worked..perfectly.
The thing that does not, is frankly a sloppy crying shame.
I could log in, reach my inbox area, choose to check my inbox and get 
correct information, compose an email, including editing the email 
body..everything but actually send the email itself.
That is because the send button has been JavaScript coded to be disabled 
from the keyboard.
Lynx has a keystroke that allows you to submit these buttons anyway, if 
coded correctly.  led me to a 510 server error.
As I upped the JavaScript friendliness, links and elinks can be compiled 
for it, I discovered the problem.
the send button is actually java script coded to be harmless..I am 
serious.
There is a rule in  the web content access guidelines for this, stating 
that all JavaScript must work from the keyboard.
Basic reason?  those who cannot lift or point a mouse, including those 
embodying paraplegia.
even voice browsers draw upon a form of html, simulate that submit button 
using enter key infrastructure.

Anyone at all know if roundcube has a support team?
This tool could be amazing with some slight JavaScript fixes.
Thanks,
Karen





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Re: [Freedos-user] freedos, or dos based mail clients?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi mart, Eric and all.
Sharing more details, thanks for all these ideas.
Because there is no direct inclusive tool for me  with the combination of 
adaptive technology I use in Linux, I ssh telnet from my DOS computer into 
shellworld using the recently updated sshdos program.
Further, I use ssh from within shellworld itself to reach the  dreamhost 
workspaces  that they provide curtain up distribution INC.
For the record, dreamhost does not really support the programs they 
provide on their hosting shells, they simply put them there.
Shellworld, on the other hand, has a vested interest in inclusion, so 
incorporates more of a blending, Ubuntu mixed with other tools, some of 
which like e-links are compiled  with a bit more graphics, same for Links, 
and Lynx..the latter has a keystroke that can submit JavaScript only 
buttons for example.

In sum, here, not all the text tools are strictly text so to speak.
now for my gmail needs.
mart, my karen.lewel...@gmail.com address not only existed for several 
professional services, it provided an inclusive way for me to manage 
files, safely communicate on lists,  even serve on organization boards.
I have contacts there, files there, data there that losing would be hard 
to articulate for me personally.
What that means in terms of mail forwarding is that, for this email, that 
door  would not be enough.

I have a second email account, lewellen...@gmail.com
That I lost basic html access too after a library visit.
That account has been forwarding to my personal website email, but because 
I do not actually see all the email there, like what google may decide is 
spam, nor have access to the full inbox, allot of research  has been lost.

I do not want to suffer that again.
if I am forthright, I am unsure I have the emotional bondage to deal with 
that loss just now.
While I agree with Eric that graphical might not be the solution, I add 
the qualifier that it depends on how that tool is constructed.  I use 
graphical DOS software all the time, wordperfect for example, which 
presents stuff to my adaptive tools that lets me read them.

I may download this package and see if it can speak.
 especially if that gives me what I require here.
command line does not automatically equal text, or non graphical as it 
were.

So, to sum
1.  My requirements are a tool that once configured gives me full access 
to my gmail  information, inbox, sent mail, contacts and the like.
If I am importing that to another service, that is fine, so long as that 
provider  gives me a tool that blends well with my combination of adaptive 
tools.
If not, then I will still need, at least for a while, to send email using 
my gmail address, its not just about reading things, its about well 
established interactions, personal  legal, and professional.

We do have mutt, pine, and alpine here at shellworld.
using them for this goal would depend on
1, if  mutt once configured will present my gmail contents in full the way 
pine and alpine can, and
2, if I can configure alpine  or pine here for gmail, instead of just 
setting up a forward..mutt as well I suppose.
Personally, I do not care for alpine, but that is due to the mayhem using 
it via dreamhost has been for years, everything from my inbox closing..all 
the time, to lost emails, and timeout errors.

Anyway, based on these details,  what should be my best next step?
I may need to locate, possibly compensate someone to do the configuring, I 
am no programmer to be sure.

With appreciation,
Kare

 On Wed, 22 Nov 2023, Mart Zirnask via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi,

On 22/11/2023, Eric Auer via Freedos-user
 wrote:

Does anybody here have experience with using a squirrelmail
or roundcoube webmail in links? Might need less java script
compared to gmail to use those, and one could forward the
gmail mail to a mail provider with squirrelmail or roundcube.


I did use SquirrelMail in Links & text-mode Linux 1-2 years ago.
IIRC, Navigating frames (which SM uses) was slightly annoying, but doable.
Because it is simple HTML, it should be possible to skip SM's side
pane altogether and only display the mailbox view, though.

Even if it was (due to the frames) not exactly a streamlined
experience, I was definitely able to read and write mails, so for
smaller workloads, it is fine.

There is also the w3m text browser, which had handy vi-like
keybindings etc, but the tables and frames rendering is not as good as
in Links. Apparently there has been a DJGPP-based port, but (after
some googling) it might have been from ~20 years ago.
http://w3m.rocks/
https://github.com/albfan/w3m/blob/master/doc/README (confirmation on
the DOS port)

I can't remember if I ever tried to use Gmail with w3m, though. In any
case, Links was better at this.

I was actually going to suggest the exact same solution (forwarding
Gmail to a SM-based account). I'll very probably have to go the same
route myself, because Gmail's default view always feels a bit "too
much of everything". Or ditch Gma

Re: [Freedos-user] freedos, or dos based mail clients?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

As I physically cannot use Linux outside of the shell services I use, that 
door is possible, just not from my desktop.

I do have a question though.
Does your configuration give you total access to  email contents, folders 
sent  mail, contact lists and the like?
I may need to pay someone to do the configuring for me here at shellworld 
for  my gmail account.




On Tue, 21 Nov 2023, Nicholas Bernhard via Freedos-user wrote:


   I'm using Mutt right now, a command-line email client for Linux.

On Tue, Nov 21, 2023 at 07:01:11PM -0600, Rugxulo via Freedos-user wrote:

Hi,

On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 4:17 PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user
 wrote:


Google intends removing all access to basic HTML, and is forcing the issue
as of today.


Did they state a reason? Maintenance burden? Or just better security?
Because email was always plain text and pretty insecure.

Realistically, I wonder if there are supported Chromebooks for sale
with good accessibility options for basic tasks (emails, word
processing, browsing the web). (In some ways, I feel they aren't
tested well or aren't supported for long or just scattered in obscure
locations with little promotion.)


A second option   would be a command line  browser tool that substituted
for the gmail interface, but that, if I could not use it directly from
DOS, could be set up in the Ubuntu shell I have with shellworld.


I assume Ubuntu is much, much better supported. Surely somebody on
Linux (or BSD) does email via terminal / commandline.


My question is this.
is there a DOS only based email client, in freedos, in djppp or something
that might meet this need?


Text-based? Probably not. Though I always say it's not impossible ...
but, in reality, there are so few DJGPP volunteers that a lot doesn't
get done.

Georg Potthast did a graphical (FLTK) FLmail a while back. I never
tested it (and it's probably somewhat unstable), but I bet that mostly
works.

"FLMAIL91.zipFlMail email client version 0.91"
"FLMAIL91.zip2014-11-145.2 MB"

* 
https://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/files/Applications/Binary%20versions%20of%20FLTK%20applications/


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[Freedos-user] freedos, or dos based mail clients?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
Google intends removing all access to basic HTML, and is forcing the issue 
as of today.
Because I keep a great deal of content in my personal gmail account, even 
using their web interface to convert documents I must sometimes read, I am 
seeking alternatives.
If I am honest, my preference would be an email client I can incorporate 
with Links for DOS and run from my desktop, that would pass gmail's 
noninclusive for me due to my combination of disability experiences 
verification process. Or something I can set up that gives me access to 
all of my content.
A second option   would be a command line  browser tool that substituted 
for the gmail interface, but that, if I could not use it directly from 
DOS, could be set up in the Ubuntu shell I have with shellworld.

My question is this.
is there a DOS only based email client, in freedos, in djppp or something 
that might meet this need?

Thanks for ideas and questions,
Kare




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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

well..this was an adventure I hope not to encounter again.
First, the t command, which I was told would test  integrity failed all 
together.
so did, unlike with pk branded zip items, running p7zip on an archive in a 
different directory, even with the DPMI file right beside the thing.
What finally worked was putting the p7zip executable file, and the cwsdpmi 
executable actually in the directory along side the .7z archive in 
question.

extracted it with the x option as I had been told would work.
messy business speaking personally, but if the thing expects a 
package manager, that may be the reason.

Thanks for all the help everyone!
Kare





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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Sorry, I have a retraction.
links20f works fine, not giving me the dpmi error.
p7zip does however.
going to try a small trick, especially as I will only need this once.
everything crossed.



On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user wrote:


Thanks again Eric!
I was likewise confused by some of what is here.
your wisdom about what to run has presented another challenge.
now, this is  the first time in a while a machine has been built for me, 
without my being present for the dos installation itself.

when I run the p7zip command I get a load error no DPMI
as an aside, I get this when I now run links20f as well.
such did not happen previously, leading me to guess something is not loading 
as it should, or loading that should not.

How do I correct the DPMI error, and where, autoexec.bat or config.sys?
Thanks again,
Karen



On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



 Hi!

>   I did download Eric's file, as I do not use freedos.

 While you get extra package management features by opening
 our zipped app packages with a package manager, unzipping
 them with any UNZIP style tool will usually be sufficient.
 So you should be fine.

>   The information indicates that it might be a port of a windows package.
>   My search suggested that I should fine an executable called 7za,
>   or even just 7z, but it is not?? there.
>   the p7z file does not work at all.

 There are two EXE files in the download:

 624292 bx defX 09-Mar-05 00:00 ARCHIVER/P7ZIP/P7ZIP.EXE
 542956 bx defX 09-Mar-04 23:48 ARCHIVER/P7ZIP/P7ZIPR.EXE

 When you run p7zip -h or p7zipr -h they will show
 the help text which makes me assume that they are
 two different compiles of a standard 7-zip binary.

 I have no idea why they got renamed to p7zip here?

 The directory also contains various text documents
 and a subdirectory with a HTML manual. In addition,
 there are APPINFO, LINKS and SOURCE directories.
 The former contains metadata about the package, the
 latter contains a zip with the source code and the
 LINKS directory contains a batch file which seems
 to be meant as a wrapper to be put in your path to
 call p7zip.exe without having to add the archiver
 p7zip directory to your path. It does not pass the
 command line arguments, though, which confuses me.

 In short, you should be able to just copy the exe
 and maybe the .1 documentation files from the
 ARCHIVER/P7ZIP directory into a directory in your
 path and keep everything else around at a place of
 your choice for some extra documentation. You do
 not need to use a package manager then.

 Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Thanks again Eric!
I was likewise confused by some of what is here.
your wisdom about what to run has presented another challenge.
now, this is  the first time in a while a machine has been built for me, 
without my being present for the dos installation itself.

when I run the p7zip command I get a load error no DPMI
 as an aside, I get this when I now run links20f as well.
such did not happen previously, leading me to guess something is not 
loading as it should, or loading that should not.

 How do I correct the DPMI error, and where, autoexec.bat or config.sys?
Thanks again,
Karen



On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



Hi!


 I did download Eric's file, as I do not use freedos.


While you get extra package management features by opening
our zipped app packages with a package manager, unzipping
them with any UNZIP style tool will usually be sufficient.
So you should be fine.


 The information indicates that it might be a port of a windows package.
 My search suggested that I should fine an executable called 7za,
 or even just 7z, but it is not  there.
 the p7z file does not work at all.


There are two EXE files in the download:

624292 bx defX 09-Mar-05 00:00 ARCHIVER/P7ZIP/P7ZIP.EXE
542956 bx defX 09-Mar-04 23:48 ARCHIVER/P7ZIP/P7ZIPR.EXE

When you run p7zip -h or p7zipr -h they will show
the help text which makes me assume that they are
two different compiles of a standard 7-zip binary.

I have no idea why they got renamed to p7zip here?

The directory also contains various text documents
and a subdirectory with a HTML manual. In addition,
there are APPINFO, LINKS and SOURCE directories.
The former contains metadata about the package, the
latter contains a zip with the source code and the
LINKS directory contains a batch file which seems
to be meant as a wrapper to be put in your path to
call p7zip.exe without having to add the archiver
p7zip directory to your path. It does not pass the
command line arguments, though, which confuses me.

In short, you should be able to just copy the exe
and maybe the .1 documentation files from the
ARCHIVER/P7ZIP directory into a directory in your
path and keep everything else around at a place of
your choice for some extra documentation. You do
not need to use a package manager then.

Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

I did download Eric's file, as I do not use freedos.
The information indicates that it might be a port of a windows package.
My search suggested that I should fine an executable called 7za,
or even just 7z, but it is not  there.
the p7z file does not work at all.



On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Micha?~B Dec wrote:


Hello Karen,

As I've stated in my previous email:

 * unzip is for decompressing zip files
 * zip is for creating zip files
 * p7zip is for BOTH creating and extracting 7z files (and many more
   actually)

With p7zip, this is not an Alcohol 68% and Alcohol 52% situation, like it is 
with zip and unzip ;)


You can install all 3 from fdimples, which is the package manager for 
FreeDOS. fdimples should be able to use a CDROM, a USB pendrive, or a network 
connection to reach a repository and let you install whatever packages are 
available within.


If you do not want to use fdimples, I'm afraid you'll have to download those 
files that Eric specified on Ibiblio and extract them into your FreeDOS 
partition. The disadvantage here is that you'll have to serve yourself to 
have these tools available in %PATH%, or, put up with having to use absolute 
paths to the executables of these programs.


Hope it helps!

Best regards,

Micha?? Dec

W dniu 01.11.2023 o??20:32, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user pisze:

 The file referenced by Eric, seems to have archiving tools, but not
 extracting ones.
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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

I am sorry if this question is very very silly.
My goal is to extract, not to create a 7zip file.
The file referenced by Eric, seems to have archiving tools, but not 
extracting ones.

Unless I am missing something profoundly obvious?
Thanks  profoundly,



On Tue, 31 Oct 2023, Ralf Quint via Freedos-user wrote:


On 10/31/2023 1:27 PM, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user wrote:

 I do not have a freedos install cd.
 I understand that 7 zip files require the 7zip program...which is why I am
 seeking it somewhere.
 are such files  given names like
 file.7zip?
 the latter does not keep the three character extension rule, which is why
 I am likewise asking.
 Karen 


The common file extension for 7Zip files is .7z


Ralf




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Re: [Freedos-user] MSdos 7.1 question

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

sound..in what way?
If you are using the install package, it includes  sound drivers.
Will need more specifics, i. e. you have a sound card that is not working 
how?

Kare



On Wed, 1 Nov 2023, Dale E Sterner via Freedos-user wrote:


You use to promote MSdos 7.1. Have you ever found
a way to get sound on it.
I deleted a command called KILL on it. Do you know
what that command does because I don't?
I love the large file size that it supports. Freedos is
limited to 2 gigs and PCdos stops a 8 gigs.


cheers
DS


On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 19:10:35 -0400 (EDT) Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user
 writes:

Thanks Eric,
you are a prince.
Karen



On Tue, 31 Oct 2023, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



Hi! According to





https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/te
st/report.html


you can download





http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/unst
able/archiver/p7zip.zip


for 7zip. Regards, Eric




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**>>>>
From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***>>>>



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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Thanks Eric,
you are a prince.
Karen



On Tue, 31 Oct 2023, Eric Auer via Freedos-user wrote:



Hi! According to

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/test/report.html

you can download

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/repositories/unstable/archiver/p7zip.zip

for 7zip. Regards, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi Ralf,
Thanks for the correct extension.  Will download the file again saving it 
properly.
I do not personally run freedos yet for many reasons, so my thanks to 
others for doors to the software as well.

Kare



On Tue, 31 Oct 2023, Ralf Quint via Freedos-user wrote:


On 10/31/2023 1:27 PM, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user wrote:

 I do not have a freedos install cd.
 I understand that 7 zip files require the 7zip program...which is why I am
 seeking it somewhere.
 are such files  given names like
 file.7zip?
 the latter does not keep the three character extension rule, which is why
 I am likewise asking.
 Karen 


The common file extension for 7Zip files is .7z


Ralf




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Re: [Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

I do not have a freedos install cd.
I understand that 7 zip files require the 7zip program...which is why I am 
seeking it somewhere.

are such files  given names like
file.7zip?
the latter does not keep the three character extension rule, which is why I 
am likewise asking.

Karen



On Tue, 31 Oct 2023, Micha�~B Dec wrote:


Regular zip files can be decompressed with unzip. For compression, use zip.

7z files can be decompressed with 7zip.

They're all on the full FreeDOS install CD.

Best regards,

Michał Dec

W dniu 31.10.2023 o 21:20, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user pisze:

 Hi All,
 and a reminder how to set them apart from say .zip files?
 have such an archive,  needed to get a machine built, and one program I
 am restoring  is available as a 7zip file.
 Is there a DOS equal to the pk zip package?
 And should such files be named differently than just .zip?
 Thanks so much.
 With appreciation,
 Karen




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[Freedos-user] 7zip for dOS?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi All,
and a reminder how to set them apart from say .zip files?
have such an archive,  needed to get a machine built, and one program I am 
restoring  is available as a 7zip file.

Is there a DOS equal to the pk zip package?
And should such files be named differently than just .zip?
Thanks so much.
With appreciation,
Karen




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[Freedos-user] quick help finding the dos driver for intel etherexpress pro 100+

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
when I locate the img file, its a 1.57, which I believe would fit on the 
later  floppies, but apparently not on my  1.44 ones.

So hoping to find a copy, even if in .zip that will fit?
Apparently Intel has an entire package of drivers that include ones for 
DOS.  However, I believe the ISO image needs a cd burn, likely not an 
option here, but will take the package if it can be found.

Doing the work with sighted help on 26 October Toronto time.
ideas?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] REMINDER: FreeDOS virtual get-together is tomorrow

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Any chance for direct dial?
Will be on the road, away from my computer, but if you can send that door 
off list  I would be appreciative.




On Sat, 26 Aug 2023, Jim Hall via Freedos-user wrote:


On Sun, Aug 20, 2023 at 10:29 AM Jim Hall  wrote:
[..]

Let's do it! Plan for our FreeDOS virtual get-together for NEXT
SUNDAY, August 27 at 11am US/Central. (Use your favorite timezone
converter to find your local time.) We usually alternate topics every
month (technical v social) but we didn't get to meet last month - so
this meeting will be focused on "technical."



Hi everyone!

Just sharing a quick reminder about tomorrow's (Aug 27) virtual
get-together at 11am US/Central. I'll send the URL shortly before the
meeting starts.

The meeting is on BlueJeans. We've found that you may get video "lag"
if you connect using only a web browser ("web client") but performance
is much better if you download the (free) desktop client:
https://www.bluejeans.com/downloads


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Re: [Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Lifts hand!!
do share, you never know who might find them joyously useful.
Kare



On Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Daniel Essin via Freedos-user wrote:

I have a box full of PCMCIA ethernet cards. If anyone could use one, I could 
search them out and post a list.


Dan

On 7/24/23 6:13 PM, Ralf Quint via Freedos-user wrote:

 On 7/24/2023 6:06 PM, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user wrote:
>  Hi folks,
>  Too many layers in the process for me to try the install.
>  That and the thinkpad, which is a thinkpad 600x is not in condition for 
>  the work it seems.
>  I do wonder though if the freedos networking options would have 
>  functioned with the on-board Ethernet structure? 


 Does your 600x include an Ethernet port "on-board", AFAIK, they didn't and
 you needed (as it was pre-USB days) an PCMCIA/CardBus adapter and that's
 where the soft  brown matter hits the fast rotating appliance...



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Re: [Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

yes, it has an ethernet port..USB ones as well.



On Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Ralf Quint via Freedos-user wrote:


On 7/24/2023 6:06 PM, Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user wrote:

 Hi folks,
 Too many layers in the process for me to try the install.
 That and the thinkpad, which is a thinkpad 600x is not in condition for
 the work it seems.
 I do wonder though if the freedos networking options would have functioned
 with the on-board Ethernet structure? 


Does your 600x include an Ethernet port "on-board", AFAIK, they didn't and 
you needed (as it was pre-USB days) an PCMCIA/CardBus adapter and that's 
where the soft  brown matter hits the fast rotating appliance...




Ralf




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Re: [Freedos-user] My curiosity

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi,
Can speak for no one but myself, to be sure.
Still, I run DOS exclusively, having no issues reaching the internet with 
it, or this list smiles.

My situation is  unique however.
for the record, I am not running freedos, or not as of yet, as  I have not 
found a reason  to choose it over my current DOS setup.

That is just me though,
Karen



On Mon, 24 Jul 2023, Daniel Essin via Freedos-user wrote:


Hello,

I'm following this list and find it very interesting. I found it when I was 
trying to prepare myself to help a friend whose business in built around a 
DOS app. It's clear that many/most/all? have access to other computers and 
OSes. This would be obvious if only because one needs access to the internet 
even if only to get this list. This has made me curious.


What are others using freedos for: business, curiosity, running retro games 
and apps for fun, to avoid total dependence on the evil empire, or something 
else?


Dan



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Re: [Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
Too many layers in the process for me to try the install.
That and the thinkpad, which is a thinkpad 600x is not in condition for 
the work it seems.
I do wonder though if the freedos networking options would have functioned 
with the on-board Ethernet structure?

Thanks,
Karen





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[Freedos-user] the freedos 1.3 floppy install edition.

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
did the obvious and visited the readme for the download section of 
freedos.
While there is indeed a floppy only install, I understand  one should over 
ride the 286 assumption with a switch  to allow for say a p2 or p3 
install?

are the networking packages in this install?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

not sure why this came privately.
Here is the situation.
I experience sight loss, and am taking this thinkpad to my office where an 
associate is going to serve as my reader.

Neither i, or anyone in the office space has access to a cd unit.
Likewise I will not know in advance what thinkpad, but imagine it is old 
enough  to perhaps match one of the networking drivers provided.

So I am seeking the following.
1.  are there floppy images for freedos, and if so where might I download 
them?
2. does this latest edition include the referenced set of networking 
drivers, and is there an option to install them?
3. does this latest compile include the last edition of the Links browser 
that  uses some forms of JavaScript?
I have it myself already, unless there has been a update, but wanted to 
ask.

Thanks everyone,
Karen



On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, Rugxulo wrote:


Hi,

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 5:45 PM Karen Lewellen  wrote:


meaning that packet drivers are included in packages, or that I will need
to hunt them?


You'll have to hunt for them, sadly.


also, is there  a   install copy that lets me save items to floppies?


I don't know, but it should be easy to save.
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Re: [Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi,
Will see of I have a note about the thinkpad model from the person who 
put it together for me before.
I experience sight loss, so providing those details will take some 
digging.
the situation is that I have no way to burn a cd for install, even though 
the thinkpad has one.
My goal was to get boot images, save them to floppies on this  machine, 
take the laptop and floppies to  my office and get  help doing the 
install.
My only reason for considering freedos is the chance for on board  use of 
the Ethernet setup.

Will hunt for what I might have on the machine.



On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, Louis Santillan wrote:


AFAICT, the FDNET package contains packet drivers for (16-bit?) NE2000 and
PCnet ethernet cards.   The crynwr package has several dozen other packet
drivers.  If we knew the exact Thinkpad model, we could advise you better.

http://crynwr.com/drivers/00index.html

WRT saving items to floppy, are you considering a hard drive install or
booting from floppy only?

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 12:46???PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


meaning that packet drivers are included in packages, or that I will need
to hunt them?
also, is there  a   install copy that lets me save items to floppies?



On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, Rugxulo via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi,

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:56???PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user
 wrote:


My goal is supporting the built in  Ethernet infrastructure on the
thinkpad.
  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that freedos has networking
infrastructure  in the system itself?


No, FreeDOS isn't special, it just uses pre-existing packet drivers
(usually for old hardware).


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Re: [Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

meaning that packet drivers are included in packages, or that I will need 
to hunt them?

also, is there  a   install copy that lets me save items to floppies?



On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, Rugxulo via Freedos-user wrote:


Hi,

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 3:56 PM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user
 wrote:


My goal is supporting the built in  Ethernet infrastructure on the
thinkpad.
  My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that freedos has networking
infrastructure  in the system itself?


No, FreeDOS isn't special, it just uses pre-existing packet drivers
(usually for old hardware).


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Re: [Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

My goal is supporting the built in  Ethernet infrastructure on the 
thinkpad.
 My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that freedos has networking 
infrastructure  in the system itself?




On Tue, 18 Jul 2023, Louis Santillan wrote:


Depends on the vintage of Thinkpad, but I wouldn't just assume a Thinkpad
has a DOS compatible Ethernet card.  I would verify.

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 10:08???AM Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user <
freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote:


Hi folks,
Due to some layered power issues in my new apartment, I am considering
installing Freedos onto a laptop as a backup for my desktop computer.
My main reason for considering this is the likelihood, given its an IBM
Thinkpad, that Freedos networking should work for the onboard Ethernet
setup.  Meaning I will not need to find a different Ethernet card for this.
Am I correct?
Thanks,
Karen




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[Freedos-user] Basic freedos question before I try this?

[Karen Lewellen via Freedos-user]

Hi folks,
Due to some layered power issues in my new apartment, I am considering 
installing Freedos onto a laptop as a backup for my desktop computer.
My main reason for considering this is the likelihood, given its an IBM 
Thinkpad, that Freedos networking should work for the onboard Ethernet 
setup.  Meaning I will not need to find a different Ethernet card for this.

Am I correct?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos, laptops, and the internet?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi there,
I have not chosen the machine yet, intended to choose based on freedos 
requirements for networking.
as I require a serial port though, modern as sometimes defined by others 
is less likely,  but the physical port is an absolute must.
still this is helpful, if I locate say a thinkpad with onboard chip work 
for networking, along with my required serial port  I may be in fine stead 
indeed.

Kare



On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Omar Yabar via Freedos-user wrote:


Hello Karen, turning back to your original question, there is a plenty of network chips 
freedos friendly, in order to know what chip is in your laptop you can use Astra 
http://www.sysinfolab.com/download.htm last version May 04, 2023, most popular network 
chip is Realtek RTL8111, RTL8168, RTL8169, RTL8136, etc; Intel E1000, E100; Atheros 
L1,L2, AR81XX, etc; VIA Velocity Gigabit, etc; Marvell Yukon; Broadcom B57, BX2, B44, 
etc; the list is very long. In my website you will find more information 
http://www.packetdriversdos.net one important advice is there not many modern packet 
driver, but using a "Shim" you can use?? ODI drivers or NDIS drivers working as 
packet drivers with small tweaks. In conclusion, many modern laptops are freedos 
friendly, even with 10th gen Intel Processors and more than 4gb of RAM, the only 
limitation is UEFI, if the laptop doesn't have CSM it is impossible to load Freedos.Good 
Luck

Enviado desde Yahoo Mail para Android

 El vie., 2 de jun. de 2023 a la(s) 5:04 p.??m., Karen 
Lewellen escribi??:   Hi folks,
After having been on this list for years, although I not running freedos, I
am considering a machine using the system alone.
That machine would be a laptop, likely a p3 much as my desktops are, if
unwise.
My main serious concern is how freedos would access the Internet from such
a machine.
Its been a long time, but previously only a handful of cards could?? use
Freedos and network, has this changed?
If so, what?? laptop specific hardware can freedos access for accessing the
Internet?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos, laptops, and the internet?

[Karen Lewellen]

I respect you realize this is not what I am seeking.
while the idea is absolutely not a door for me, perhaps others will find 
it useful.




On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Ben Collver wrote:


I realize this is not exactly what you are looking for, but another option is 
an RS-232 WIFI modem.  Below are eBay links for four ready-made products, plus 
a link describing how to DIY with a Raspberry Pi.  All of these options are 
powered by a USB cable.  I am guessing that a system with a Pentium 3 processor 
will have a USB port.  The DIY option looks promising to me because i could run 
SSH on the Raspberry PI, effectively offloading the crypto from the DOS CPU.

ArcaneByte RS232 WiFi Wireless Modem for Vintage Computers DB25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/203949086189

Simple Wifi RS232 Modem v2 DB25
https://www.ebay.com/itm/265519698197

WiFi Serial Modem for Retro Vintage computer Zimodem DB9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/204292941579

WiRSa v2 WiFi Wireless RS232 Serial Modem Adapter and SD card reader DB9
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175299622202

DIY internet access from a vintage computer using Raspberry Pi
https://magpi.raspberrypi.com/articles/add-internet-access-to-a-vintage-computer-using-raspberry-pi

Another option is dual-booting.  I have a Pentium 3 laptop with FreeDOS 
installed, but i also carry around a Puppy Linux live CD just in case.  Puppy 
Linux has drivers for the laptop's built-in WIFI and i can use the live CD to 
do a quick download and save it to disk.  Just for fun, nothing serious.

-Ben

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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos, laptops, and the internet?

[Karen Lewellen]

Others are better with links  then myself.
If someone does not provide it, may I suggest searching for the term 
updated ssh for dos?

Should bring up the package.
 Sorry,
Kare



On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, tauro via Freedos-user wrote:


That's great news!
Where can it be found?
Would you please share a link to it?

Thank you

Tauro

On 2/6/23 21:10, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 Yes, actually.
 someone updated sshdos so that it can support more current dh keys and so
 forth.
 Using it as I write in fact.



 On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, tauro via Freedos-user wrote:

>  Since you're talking about the internet, considering one is successful 
>  setting up the NIC,
> 
>  Is there a fully working/updated SSH client for DOS? With support for 
>  current ciphers, MACs and kex algorithms?
> 
>  Tauro
> 
> 
>  ___

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>  https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
> 




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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos, laptops, and the internet?

[Karen Lewellen]

Yes, actually.
someone updated sshdos so that it can support more current dh keys and so 
forth.

Using it as I write in fact.



On Fri, 2 Jun 2023, tauro via Freedos-user wrote:

Since you're talking about the internet, considering one is successful 
setting up the NIC,


Is there a fully working/updated SSH client for DOS? With support for current 
ciphers, MACs and kex algorithms?


Tauro


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Re: [Freedos-user] Freedos, laptops, and the internet?

[Karen Lewellen]

thanks for sharing your perspective.
I am using pure DOS, including the packet driver setup for my desktop 
right now.
My hope, as  You provide here, is a list of suitable network hardware, cards 
or on board, that can manage the task.
If it is not freedos specific, meaning freedos can manage any such card, 
that may be a solution, some of the 3com tools manage this.

Cheers,
Karen



On Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Micha�~B Dec wrote:


Hi,

FreeDOS can be used to access a network if your network card has a DOS 
driver. Those are usually provided by the manufacturer of said card. You'll 
probably want a "packet driver", but I think someone who has more experience 
with networking under DOS would be able to give you better info. I remember 
quitting the entire ordeal because I had wget and other network tools crash 
all the time, and they exhibited some seriously jarring bugs like resolving 
domains that are supposed to be aliases, and not resolvable by any DNS. But 
that was when I was still using JEMMEX/JEMM386 so it's probably my fault.


Best regards,

Michał

W dniu 3.06.2023 o 00:02, Karen Lewellen pisze:

 Hi folks,
 After having been on this list for years, although I not running freedos,
 I am considering a machine using the system alone.
 That machine would be a laptop, likely a p3 much as my desktops are, if
 unwise.
 My main serious concern is how freedos would access the Internet from such
 a machine.
 Its been a long time, but previously only a handful of cards could   use
 Freedos and network, has this changed?
 If so, what  laptop specific hardware can freedos access for accessing
 the Internet?
 Thanks,
 Karen




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[Freedos-user] Freedos, laptops, and the internet?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi folks,
After having been on this list for years, although I not running freedos, I 
am considering a machine using the system alone.
That machine would be a laptop, likely a p3 much as my desktops are, if 
unwise.
My main serious concern is how freedos would access the Internet from such 
a machine.
Its been a long time, but previously only a handful of cards could   use 
Freedos and network, has this changed?
If so, what  laptop specific hardware can freedos access for accessing the 
Internet?

Thanks,
Karen




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[Freedos-user] what I should include on a DOs rescue floppy?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi folks,
Planning ahead, only to discover my copy of Norton Utilities for DOS 
cannot read my hard drive configuration.

So,  in case others know of utilities I should include, any suggestions?
I do really have a 3.5 floppy drive for this machine.
Thanks much,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Anyone want to write an article about FreeDOS?

[Karen Lewellen]

Travis,
While certainly such an article can exist, speaking personally, treating 
accessibility as if it must be built, one population at a time is 
frankly a disservice.
In fact, speaking personally, that is part of why accessibility has made 
such little progress, in part to be sure.
One does not build a brick & motor business with just a single wall. 
Instead you create an entire structure which, if done to serve the public, 
much of the time takes into consideration that different kinds of humans 
will be visiting that building.  I say much of the time,  historical 
places 
do not always have ramps or elevators.
Still, when building an operating system, and hoping to encourage 
inclusion, why break it up by population?

It is not how accessibility guidelines work for example.
Instead inclusion is based on interaction, and according to the w3c, is 
device browser and user agent agnostic to keep people from prioritizing 
one  group of humans who interact with technology over another.
My guess is that accessibility is a new concept to this opensource 
community.
why perpetuate the unfortunate idea that only those experiencing blindness 
have  paths to accessibility, or that such only applies to them?
Speaking personally of course, since I do not believe an actual blind 
community exists...realizing others feel differently.

Karen



On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

Yes, but if they want articles on accessibility, I see no reason why an 
article on visually impaired access with screen readers can't be an 
article.  If folks want to write articles for other accessibility features, 
then feel free to do so.  I can't write about what I don't know.



On 1/29/2023 9:01 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 Well, unless he has left, He is still on list.
 He did, if memory serves, get permission from the creator of asap and asaw
 to include it in his project.
 I might be entirely wrong, or he has a different one for dosbox.
 However, as shared, access is not about screen readers alone, it is
 frankly disturbing the folks who feel otherwise, because they hear such
 all the time.



 On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

>  Possibly, but asap isn't opensource, so no article there.
>  I do have an opensource screen reader, but again, it requires a physical 
>  synth, so I need to work on that somehow.
> 
>  Plus I have to find where I stuffed the source, it's around here 
>  somewhere, but I haven't seen it in a while.
> 
>  On the other hand, I'd be interested to see how ASAP was made to work, 
>  that should be an interesting reveal.
> 
> 
>  On 1/29/2023 8:36 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> >   does not Joseph have a working edition of freedos using asap, as a 
> >  screen

> >   reader?
> >   The journey  to getting accessibility, not just screen readers, but 
> >  voice

> >   tools for those needing that kind of inclusion,  might make for an
> >   interesting piece.
> >   Since opensource seeks well open source smiles, the article might
> >   encourage creativity towards coding solutions that benefit many
> >   populations.  After all, accessibility is not about blindness 
> >  alone.

> >   Kare
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:
> > 
> > >   I suppose if they're interested in articles on accessibility, I 
> >  should >  probably write one on visually impaired access.  I tried 
> >  to get a >  screen reader included into the project several years 
> >  ago, and was > turned down, because of the license of the code, even 
> >  though it didn't >  have any restrictions on distribution, other than 
> >  the fact that whoever >  did so have a license for the a86 assembler, 
> >  (which I do have), but I've >  also not done a whole lot with it 
> >  since then, so perhaps it's time I did >  do something about that.  
> >  I need to figure out some way to tie that >  screen reader to a 
> >  software synthesizer of some sort, so folks don't >  need a physical 
> >  hardware synthesizer.  If that could be accomplished, >  then 
> >  freedos would truly be completely accessible.
> > > >   Of course, it is sort of accessible to visually impaired folks 
> >  now, >  since running it under dosemu on linux uses the linux screen 
> >  reader, and >  works just fine, though I've not tried running it on 
> >  something like > dosbox under windows, to see if the windows screen 
> >  reader works for it.
> > > >   I guess there's more work that needs done before I could truly 
> >  write an >  all inclusive article about it being accessible to 
> >  visually impaired >  users.
> > > >   On

Re: [Freedos-user] Anyone want to write an article about FreeDOS?

[Karen Lewellen]

Well, unless he has left, He is still on list.
He did, if memory serves, get permission from the creator of asap and asaw 
to include it in his project.

I might be entirely wrong, or he has a different one for dosbox.
However, as shared, access is not about screen readers alone, it is frankly 
disturbing the folks who feel otherwise, because they hear such all the 
time.




On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:


Possibly, but asap isn't opensource, so no article there.
I do have an opensource screen reader, but again, it requires a physical 
synth, so I need to work on that somehow.


Plus I have to find where I stuffed the source, it's around here somewhere, 
but I haven't seen it in a while.


On the other hand, I'd be interested to see how ASAP was made to work, that 
should be an interesting reveal.



On 1/29/2023 8:36 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:

 does not Joseph have a working edition of freedos using asap, as a screen
 reader?
 The journey  to getting accessibility, not just screen readers, but voice
 tools for those needing that kind of inclusion,  might make for an
 interesting piece.
 Since opensource seeks well open source smiles, the article might
 encourage creativity towards coding solutions that benefit many
 populations.  After all, accessibility is not about blindness alone.
 Kare



 On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

>  I suppose if they're interested in articles on accessibility, I should 
>  probably write one on visually impaired access.  I tried to get a 
>  screen reader included into the project several years ago, and was 
>  turned down, because of the license of the code, even though it didn't 
>  have any restrictions on distribution, other than the fact that whoever 
>  did so have a license for the a86 assembler, (which I do have), but I've 
>  also not done a whole lot with it since then, so perhaps it's time I did 
>  do something about that.  I need to figure out some way to tie that 
>  screen reader to a software synthesizer of some sort, so folks don't 
>  need a physical hardware synthesizer.  If that could be accomplished, 
>  then freedos would truly be completely accessible.
> 
>  Of course, it is sort of accessible to visually impaired folks now, 
>  since running it under dosemu on linux uses the linux screen reader, and 
>  works just fine, though I've not tried running it on something like 
>  dosbox under windows, to see if the windows screen reader works for it.
> 
>  I guess there's more work that needs done before I could truly write an 
>  all inclusive article about it being accessible to visually impaired 
>  users.
> 
>  On the other hand, because dos is so easy to use, it does make it a lot 
>  more accessible than other operating systems like windows though, so 
>  perhaps there's an article there.
> 
>  
> 
>  I'll think about it, and see if there's something I can come up with 
>  that seems publication worthy.
> 
>  Ideas are of course welcome, which is (mostly) why I went ahead and 
>  posted this message.
> 
>  Thanks for listening.
> 
> 
>  On 1/29/2023 2:37 PM, Linvel Risner wrote:
> >   I’m by no means a FreeDOS expert, I’m just a user, but if anyone 
> >  would
> >   like help writing an article I’m here to help. I know our 
> >  community is
> >   very diverse linguistically and as a result I’m more than happy to 
> >  lend
> >   a hand to an English as a second language speaker/writer. I would 
> >  take no
> >   credit, you’d have 100% ownership of the article, I’d just like 
> >  to

> >   help in some way. Reach out if y’all need anything :)
> > 
> >   On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 2:20 PM John Vella  
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >   That sounds like the sort of thing I'd be interested in 
> >  doing, but

> >   what sort of article are they looking for? Are they after a
> >   "history of FreeDOS" type article, because that's been done 
> >  so
> >   many times it would be hard to write anything original, 
> >  wouldn't it?
> > 
> >   I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
> > 
> >   Cheers,
> > 
> >   John.
> > 
> >   On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, 18:41 Jim Hall,  
> >  wrote:
> > 
> >   If anyone here is interested in writing articles 
> >  about FreeDOS,
> >   Opensource.com is interested in running FreeDOS 
> >  articles. I write
> >   articles for them sometimes, and the FreeDOS articles 
> >  perform very
> >   well on the site. In fact, they recently listed 
> >  FreeDOS among

> >   their
> >   list of "

Re: [Freedos-user] Anyone want to write an article about FreeDOS?

[Karen Lewellen]

does this package still exist, and if so, how does it manage more current 
authentication  needs?

Kare



On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

Actually, that reminds me of a package called ka9q, which provides a complete 
tcp/ip stack to dos, that allows all kinds of net access to ftp, smtp, 
telnet, and probably other things I don't remember.?? That's probably a 
really good article waiting to happen.


I actually used that package to run my softcon.com site for a few months when 
I first opened it in 1996, until I got my linux boxes up and running.


I'll probably take a crack at something like that first before doing an 
accessibility one.



On 1/29/2023 2:37 PM, Linvel Risner wrote:

 I???m by no means a FreeDOS expert, I???m just a user, but if anyone would
 like help writing an article I???m here to help. I know our community is
 very diverse linguistically and as a result I???m more than happy to lend
 a hand to an English as a second language speaker/writer. I would take no
 credit, you???d have 100% ownership of the article, I???d just like to
 help in some way. Reach out if y???all need anything :)

 On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 2:20 PM John Vella  wrote:

 That sounds like the sort of thing I'd be interested in doing, but
 what sort of article are they looking for? Are they after a
 "history of FreeDOS" type article, because that's been done so
 many times it would be hard to write anything original, wouldn't it?

 I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 Cheers,

 John.

 On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, 18:41 Jim Hall,  wrote:

 If anyone here is interested in writing articles about FreeDOS,
 Opensource.com is interested in running FreeDOS articles. I write
 articles for them sometimes, and the FreeDOS articles perform very
 well on the site. In fact, they recently listed FreeDOS among
 their
 list of "topics we're interested in for 2023." Also included
 in the
 list: conio and C programming.

 I can tell you the editors are very welcoming, which is why I
 continue
 to write articles for them. If English isn't your first
 language, and
 you aren't confident of your English writing skills, they can help
 with editing to make the final version really nice.

 Here's the list they shared, in case this inspires anyone to
 write an article:

 - accessibility
 - Ansible
 - apt
 - Awk
 - Bash scripting
 - Blender
 - C getopt
 - C Programming
 - Chaos Engineering for K8s
 - Compose Key
 - conio
 - Containers/Pods
 - cron
 - Curl
 - DevOps
 - DevSecOps
 - dnf
 - doxygen
 - Emacs
 - find command
 - Firewall
 - FreeDOS
 - GDB
 - GIMP
 - Git
 - GNOME
 - GNU Screen
 - Go Beginners
 - Grep
 - Home Automation
 - Inkscape
 - Intro Small Scale Scrum
 - Java
 - JavaScript
 - Jinja2
 - Jupyter
 - Kdenlive
 - Kubectl
 - Kubernetes
 - Kubernetes SRE
 - Linux Apps
 - Linux perms
 - Logrotate
 - Markdown
 - MySQL
 - Networking
 - Parted
 - Pygame eBook
 - PyPI
 - Python
 - Raspberry Pi
 - Running K8s on RPi
 - Rust
 - Sed
 - SELinux
 - SSH
 - sudo
 - sustainability
 - systemd
 - tmux
 - Vim
 - wget

 Email the editors at o...@opensource.com

 They have a "write for us" page at https://opensource.com/writers


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Re: [Freedos-user] Anyone want to write an article about FreeDOS?

[Karen Lewellen]

does not Joseph have a working edition of freedos using asap, as a screen 
reader?
The journey  to getting accessibility, not just screen readers, but voice 
tools for those needing that kind of inclusion,  might make for an 
interesting piece.
Since opensource seeks well open source smiles, the article might 
encourage creativity towards coding solutions that benefit many 
populations.  After all, accessibility is not about blindness alone.

Kare



On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Travis Siegel wrote:

I suppose if they're interested in articles on accessibility, I should 
probably write one on visually impaired access.?? I tried to get a screen 
reader included into the project several years ago, and was turned down, 
because of the license of the code, even though it didn't have any 
restrictions on distribution, other than the fact that whoever did so have a 
license for the a86 assembler, (which I do have), but I've also not done a 
whole lot with it since then, so perhaps it's time I did do something about 
that.?? I need to figure out some way to tie that screen reader to a software 
synthesizer of some sort, so folks don't need a physical hardware 
synthesizer.?? If that could be accomplished, then freedos would truly be 
completely accessible.


Of course, it is sort of accessible to visually impaired folks now, since 
running it under dosemu on linux uses the linux screen reader, and works just 
fine, though I've not tried running it on something like dosbox under 
windows, to see if the windows screen reader works for it.


I guess there's more work that needs done before I could truly write an all 
inclusive article about it being accessible to visually impaired users.


On the other hand, because dos is so easy to use, it does make it a lot more 
accessible than other operating systems like windows though, so perhaps 
there's an article there.




I'll think about it, and see if there's something I can come up with that 
seems publication worthy.


Ideas are of course welcome, which is (mostly) why I went ahead and posted 
this message.


Thanks for listening.


On 1/29/2023 2:37 PM, Linvel Risner wrote:

 I???m by no means a FreeDOS expert, I???m just a user, but if anyone would
 like help writing an article I???m here to help. I know our community is
 very diverse linguistically and as a result I???m more than happy to lend
 a hand to an English as a second language speaker/writer. I would take no
 credit, you???d have 100% ownership of the article, I???d just like to
 help in some way. Reach out if y???all need anything :)

 On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 2:20 PM John Vella  wrote:

 That sounds like the sort of thing I'd be interested in doing, but
 what sort of article are they looking for? Are they after a
 "history of FreeDOS" type article, because that's been done so
 many times it would be hard to write anything original, wouldn't it?

 I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 Cheers,

 John.

 On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, 18:41 Jim Hall,  wrote:

 If anyone here is interested in writing articles about FreeDOS,
 Opensource.com is interested in running FreeDOS articles. I write
 articles for them sometimes, and the FreeDOS articles perform very
 well on the site. In fact, they recently listed FreeDOS among
 their
 list of "topics we're interested in for 2023." Also included
 in the
 list: conio and C programming.

 I can tell you the editors are very welcoming, which is why I
 continue
 to write articles for them. If English isn't your first
 language, and
 you aren't confident of your English writing skills, they can help
 with editing to make the final version really nice.

 Here's the list they shared, in case this inspires anyone to
 write an article:

 - accessibility
 - Ansible
 - apt
 - Awk
 - Bash scripting
 - Blender
 - C getopt
 - C Programming
 - Chaos Engineering for K8s
 - Compose Key
 - conio
 - Containers/Pods
 - cron
 - Curl
 - DevOps
 - DevSecOps
 - dnf
 - doxygen
 - Emacs
 - find command
 - Firewall
 - FreeDOS
 - GDB
 - GIMP
 - Git
 - GNOME
 - GNU Screen
 - Go Beginners
 - Grep
 - Home Automation
 - Inkscape
 - Intro Small Scale Scrum
 - Java
 - JavaScript
 - Jinja2
 - Jupyter
 - Kdenlive
 - Kubectl
 - Kubernetes
 - Kubernetes SRE
 - Linux Apps
 - Linux perms
 - Logrotate
 - Markdown
 - MySQL
 - Networking
 - Parted
 - Pygame eBook
 - PyPI
 - Python
 - Raspberry Pi
 - Running K8s on RPi
 - Rust
 - Sed
 

Re: [Freedos-user] Anyone want to write an article about FreeDOS?

[Karen Lewellen]

What is their compensation rate?



On Sun, 29 Jan 2023, Jim Hall wrote:


If anyone here is interested in writing articles about FreeDOS,
Opensource.com is interested in running FreeDOS articles. I write
articles for them sometimes, and the FreeDOS articles perform very
well on the site. In fact, they recently listed FreeDOS among their
list of "topics we're interested in for 2023." Also included in the
list: conio and C programming.

I can tell you the editors are very welcoming, which is why I continue
to write articles for them. If English isn't your first language, and
you aren't confident of your English writing skills, they can help
with editing to make the final version really nice.

Here's the list they shared, in case this inspires anyone to write an article:

- accessibility
- Ansible
- apt
- Awk
- Bash scripting
- Blender
- C getopt
- C Programming
- Chaos Engineering for K8s
- Compose Key
- conio
- Containers/Pods
- cron
- Curl
- DevOps
- DevSecOps
- dnf
- doxygen
- Emacs
- find command
- Firewall
- FreeDOS
- GDB
- GIMP
- Git
- GNOME
- GNU Screen
- Go Beginners
- Grep
- Home Automation
- Inkscape
- Intro Small Scale Scrum
- Java
- JavaScript
- Jinja2
- Jupyter
- Kdenlive
- Kubectl
- Kubernetes
- Kubernetes SRE
- Linux Apps
- Linux perms
- Logrotate
- Markdown
- MySQL
- Networking
- Parted
- Pygame eBook
- PyPI
- Python
- Raspberry Pi
- Running K8s on RPi
- Rust
- Sed
- SELinux
- SSH
- sudo
- sustainability
- systemd
- tmux
- Vim
- wget

Email the editors at o...@opensource.com

They have a "write for us" page at https://opensource.com/writers


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[Freedos-user] best DOS repair tools for newer machines?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi all,
My desktop, runs ms dos 7.
At the moment it is suffering from dust in the case, sometimes booting, 
sometimes not.
because my drives are large, I have two hard drives, and in theory the 
partitions are large,  2 that are 19 gig, and 2 that are 10gig, my copy of 
norton utilities for DOS cannot see the dries.

I understand freedos can manage drives much larger than my own.
I am creating a boot floppy that will have diagnostic and repair tools, 
partition magic for example, welcoming ideas while I have internet.
Joseph I am about to write privately to ask what files asap absolutely 
needs to run, moving  a copy tot his boot floppy as well so I have a 
working DOS screen reader.

Ideas?
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Semware has released TSE as Freeware

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi guys
wow, I have fond memories of qedit, but was doing all my editing with 
wordperfect by the time this came along.
Snagged a copy to try, but wonder how well it works from a speech 
standpoint?

The later regular  MS DOS edit program was sort of icky.
Kare



On Thu, 20 Oct 2022, Travis Siegel wrote:

I actually registered this program when it was still shareware. qedit version 
3.0C was the last version of qedit, then they went to TSE.?? When I 
registered, I asked if 3.0c was still possible to register, because I 
preferred that version.?? They told me no, and gave my registration for tse 
instead, but since it behaved almost exactly like qedit, I soon came to like 
it just as much, so overall, I didn't mind the switch.?? Great editor though, 
glad to see it being released.?? Going to have to grab a copy.


Thanks for pointing out this one.


On 10/20/2022 6:47 PM, joseph.nor...@gmail.com wrote:


 Hi listers:

 If any of you remember Qedit, or its big brother TSE (the Semware Editor),
 you may be interested to know that TSE if released as freeware.

 You can download a copy at www.semware.com .

 Though the Windows version is prominently displayed, you???ll also see the
 DOS version can be downloaded as well.

 Here???s a link to the DOS version:

 https://semware.com/files/tse-pro-install/tse250e.zip

 The file should be unzipped at the root of your DOS system with directory
 structure preserved (pkunzip -d tse250e.zip).?? Unzip does this
 automatically.?? You???ll have a directory called TSE250E which you might
 want to rename to TSE.

 Note that, this is the version from 1997, and it hasn???t been updated in
 a while.?? Jemex may have problems with it, but, not sure which program is
 at fault.

 Now that the program can be downloaded, testing may be possible to
 determine this.

 Cheers.



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Re: [Freedos-user] Mail and news for FreeDOS

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi again,
Anyone have first hand experience with this new package?  I have a couple 
of questions, am using a screen reader, and am unsure where else to ask.

Best off list if someone can help?
Karen



On Wed, 21 Sep 2022, Louis Santillan wrote:


Is that using the FreeDOS distributed copy or the work done by AnttiTakala (
https://github.com/AnttiTakala/SSH2DOS/releases/tag/v0.2.1%2BSHA256.1)?
AnttiTakala listed the following changes

The aim was to update the ciphers and protocols to more 2021 standards so
the programs would be usable with current ssh servers without the need to
change the server configuration to allow less secure connection methods.

Changes to original:
diffie-hellman-group1-sha1 -> diffie-hellman-group14-sha256
aes128-cbc -> aes128-ctr
hmac-sha1 -> hmac-sha2-256


On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 2:25 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


The challenge, at least for some, is that ssh2dos has not gotten an update
allowing  for the current approach to dh keys and the like.
I personally use ssh2dos  several times a day to reach  the shell service
I have.  However, I can no longer use ssh2dos  for my workplace Linux
shell from dreamhost, because openssh stopped supporting public and global
dh keys.
Karen



On Wed, 21 Sep 2022, Louis Santillan wrote:


Arachne Web Browser also supports email and news protocols.

Better solution would be to use ssh2dos to ssh into a linux box to do
email/news things.

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:37 PM Travis Siegel 

wrote:



I'm fairly certain there's a dos port of pcpine out there somewhere.
I've used it under windows, and it work sfine, but I never used it under
plain dos, (though I know folks who have).  It handles both email and
newsgroups.  Failing that, You could always try one of the various ports
of ka9q, not only does it provide email, but it gives you an entire
tcp/ip suite built in.  It's of course old, but what that runs on dos
isn't? If you're looking specifically for a news reader, you can always
try nettamer.  I don't know if it's still possible to register it, but
honestly, the only thing registration gives you is the ability to remove
taglines generated by the software.

Hope this helps.


On 9/3/2022 2:17 PM, Ralf Wissing wrote:

Hi everyone,

this is my first post on the list, so i want to apogly in advance
if i violate any customs.

So... i am searching for a good email solution for DOS, i know there
is (was?) a mutt port for DOS out there, but it is (at least for me)
nowhere to be found. As for now i am using Arachne as something of an
"all in one" solution, but as an spoiled linux user i am missing a few
things (threaded display of mails, filters...). Another thing i am in
search of is some form of newsreader, here i was totally out of luck
so far.

It would be great if someone would have a few suggestions.


Greetings

Ralf
-- This mail was written by a user of the Arachne Browser on FreeDOS  -

http://arachne.cz/





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Re: [Freedos-user] Mail and news for FreeDOS

[Karen Lewellen]

Oh my goodness!
no, I had not encountered that...everything crossed I can get a copy.
Thanks so  much!



On Wed, 21 Sep 2022, Louis Santillan wrote:


Is that using the FreeDOS distributed copy or the work done by AnttiTakala (
https://github.com/AnttiTakala/SSH2DOS/releases/tag/v0.2.1%2BSHA256.1)?
AnttiTakala listed the following changes

The aim was to update the ciphers and protocols to more 2021 standards so
the programs would be usable with current ssh servers without the need to
change the server configuration to allow less secure connection methods.

Changes to original:
diffie-hellman-group1-sha1 -> diffie-hellman-group14-sha256
aes128-cbc -> aes128-ctr
hmac-sha1 -> hmac-sha2-256


On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 2:25 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


The challenge, at least for some, is that ssh2dos has not gotten an update
allowing  for the current approach to dh keys and the like.
I personally use ssh2dos  several times a day to reach  the shell service
I have.  However, I can no longer use ssh2dos  for my workplace Linux
shell from dreamhost, because openssh stopped supporting public and global
dh keys.
Karen



On Wed, 21 Sep 2022, Louis Santillan wrote:


Arachne Web Browser also supports email and news protocols.

Better solution would be to use ssh2dos to ssh into a linux box to do
email/news things.

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:37 PM Travis Siegel 

wrote:



I'm fairly certain there's a dos port of pcpine out there somewhere.
I've used it under windows, and it work sfine, but I never used it under
plain dos, (though I know folks who have).  It handles both email and
newsgroups.  Failing that, You could always try one of the various ports
of ka9q, not only does it provide email, but it gives you an entire
tcp/ip suite built in.  It's of course old, but what that runs on dos
isn't? If you're looking specifically for a news reader, you can always
try nettamer.  I don't know if it's still possible to register it, but
honestly, the only thing registration gives you is the ability to remove
taglines generated by the software.

Hope this helps.


On 9/3/2022 2:17 PM, Ralf Wissing wrote:

Hi everyone,

this is my first post on the list, so i want to apogly in advance
if i violate any customs.

So... i am searching for a good email solution for DOS, i know there
is (was?) a mutt port for DOS out there, but it is (at least for me)
nowhere to be found. As for now i am using Arachne as something of an
"all in one" solution, but as an spoiled linux user i am missing a few
things (threaded display of mails, filters...). Another thing i am in
search of is some form of newsreader, here i was totally out of luck
so far.

It would be great if someone would have a few suggestions.


Greetings

Ralf
-- This mail was written by a user of the Arachne Browser on FreeDOS  -

http://arachne.cz/





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Re: [Freedos-user] Mail and news for FreeDOS

[Karen Lewellen]

The challenge, at least for some, is that ssh2dos has not gotten an update 
allowing  for the current approach to dh keys and the like.
I personally use ssh2dos  several times a day to reach  the shell service 
I have.  However, I can no longer use ssh2dos  for my workplace Linux 
shell from dreamhost, because openssh stopped supporting public and global 
dh keys.

Karen



On Wed, 21 Sep 2022, Louis Santillan wrote:


Arachne Web Browser also supports email and news protocols.

Better solution would be to use ssh2dos to ssh into a linux box to do
email/news things.

On Wed, Sep 21, 2022 at 12:37 PM Travis Siegel  wrote:


I'm fairly certain there's a dos port of pcpine out there somewhere.
I've used it under windows, and it work sfine, but I never used it under
plain dos, (though I know folks who have).  It handles both email and
newsgroups.  Failing that, You could always try one of the various ports
of ka9q, not only does it provide email, but it gives you an entire
tcp/ip suite built in.  It's of course old, but what that runs on dos
isn't? If you're looking specifically for a news reader, you can always
try nettamer.  I don't know if it's still possible to register it, but
honestly, the only thing registration gives you is the ability to remove
taglines generated by the software.

Hope this helps.


On 9/3/2022 2:17 PM, Ralf Wissing wrote:

Hi everyone,

this is my first post on the list, so i want to apogly in advance
if i violate any customs.

So... i am searching for a good email solution for DOS, i know there
is (was?) a mutt port for DOS out there, but it is (at least for me)
nowhere to be found. As for now i am using Arachne as something of an
"all in one" solution, but as an spoiled linux user i am missing a few
things (threaded display of mails, filters...). Another thing i am in
search of is some form of newsreader, here i was totally out of luck
so far.

It would be great if someone would have a few suggestions.


Greetings

Ralf
-- This mail was written by a user of the Arachne Browser on FreeDOS  -

http://arachne.cz/





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Re: [Freedos-user] DOS music creation software?

[Karen Lewellen]

thanks for all those prospects.
Perhaps I should not have used the gaming concept as a framer, figuring 
there   were no musicians here.

My goal is to use my computer keyboard as a music one  in pure DOS.
I have found a copy of cakewalk for DOS,  but still appreciate your 
options too.

Karen



On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, Rugxulo wrote:


Hi,

On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 11:45 AM Karen Lewellen
 wrote:


I use dos, google has removed access to YouTube for low graphics browsers.
If you have an answer, care to share?


The YouTube link just shows "Sound Blaster Pro Intelligent Organ"
(Creative Technology, 1991).

What about a so-called "tracker"?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_tracker

Here's a few links that I found (off the top of my head):

* https://hornet.org/music/programs/trackers/scrmt321.zip
* https://hornet.org/music/contests/mc6/files/it214p3.zip
* https://github.com/herrnst/impulsetracker
* https://github.com/MobyGamer/MONOTONE/releases/tag/0.3.9



On Tue, 30 Aug 2022, Björn Morell wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAt1rWF-kqE

Den 2022-08-30 kl. 12:02, skrev Karen Lewellen:

 with all of the vintage gaming hinted at here, was wondering if anyone
 knows of a simple pure DOS program that in theory allows one to treat
 their computer keyboard like a music one?
 Need not tap dance as it were, just allow for some basic work.
 Ideas?
 Karen



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Re: [Freedos-user] DOS music creation software?

[Karen Lewellen]

I use dos, google has removed access to YouTube for low graphics browsers.
If you have an answer, care to share?



On Tue, 30 Aug 2022, Bj??rn Morell wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAt1rWF-kqE

Den 2022-08-30 kl. 12:02, skrev Karen Lewellen:

 with all of the vintage gaming hinted at here, was wondering if anyone
 knows of a simple pure DOS program that in theory allows one to treat
 their computer keyboard like a music one?
 Need not tap dance as it were, just allow for some basic work.
 Ideas?
 Karen




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[Freedos-user] DOS music creation software?

[Karen Lewellen]

with all of the vintage gaming hinted at here, was wondering if anyone 
knows of a simple pure DOS program that in theory allows one to treat 
their computer keyboard like a music one?

Need not tap dance as it were, just allow for some basic work.
Ideas?
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] ot: perhaps, processor emulators?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi Jim,
My question was about emulator options  for the  alpha..at all.
And it seems you may have an answer for those working on  this project.
thanks,
Karen.



On Tue, 16 Aug 2022, Jim Hall wrote:


I think you're referring to the DEC Alpha processor from the 1990s. And if
I'm reading your email correctly, you are asking if there's an Alpha
emulator (or virtual machine that emulates a DEC Alpha) for FreeDOS?

Not that I know of. That is trying to emulate a 64-bit CPU architecture on
a 16-bit operating system like FreeDOS.

However, a quick Google search suggests that QEMU can emulate the Alpha,
but that's a solution for Linux or Windows hosts:
https://wiki.qemu.org/Documentation/Platforms/Alpha

Jim


On Tue, Aug 16, 2022, 8:41 PM Karen Lewellen 
wrote:


Hi folks,
On the dectalk discussion, someone shared  some sources for the dec
version 4.2 or so that requires actual digital equipment corporation
processor alpha architecture.
apparently dec in 1996, was already working on 64 bit processors for their
own machines.
those who want to see if the software might be coded for other uses, are
seeking emulators for the processors.  there seem to be some in Linux, but
I promised to ask about possibilities given freedos is so innovative in
its
efforts.
if I am not asking the question clearly, i will provide a post from the
list outlining the explanation.
Thoughts?
Karen







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[Freedos-user] ot: perhaps, processor emulators?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi folks,
On the dectalk discussion, someone shared  some sources for the dec 
version 4.2 or so that requires actual digital equipment corporation 
processor alpha architecture.
apparently dec in 1996, was already working on 64 bit processors for their 
own machines.
those who want to see if the software might be coded for other uses, are 
seeking emulators for the processors.  there seem to be some in Linux, but 
I promised to ask about possibilities given freedos is so innovative in its 
efforts.
if I am not asking the question clearly, i will provide a post from the 
list outlining the explanation.

Thoughts?
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] From BTTR: FAT32 ramdisk, SvarCOM shell, Doszip commander

[Karen Lewellen]

Seems like some fine efforts.
Speaking personally, I wish someone would devote time to  upgrading ssh 
for  dos, so that the  dh key exchange issue was corrected.

Kare



On Sun, 13 Mar 2022, Eric Auer wrote:



Hi!

Today is a day full of announcements on BTTR-SOFTWARE.DE :-)

https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=18797


 RDRVSX32: FAT32 RAM drive for HimemSX (Announce)

 posted by jadoxa, Queensland, Australia, 13.03.2022, 13:58

 I had a request (via email) to create a RAM drive greater than 4GiB.
 It sort of works (works on his and mine 8GiB AMD, but has issues with
 his 32GiB Intel) so if anyone has the time and inclination to test,
 that'd be great. You will need more than 4GiB RAM (in order to access
 super-extended memory), preferably more than 8GiB (in order to test
 accessing beyond 4GiB). Our testing has been simple so far: just copy
 large files (he was able to create a 28GiB RAM drive, copy hundreds
 of 64MiB files, but it fails copying a 1GiB file).


Link: http://shsufdrv.adoxa.vze.com/rdrvsx32.zip



https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=18799


 Doszip Commander version 2.63 available (Announce)

 posted by rr, Berlin, Germany, 13.03.2022, 14:20

 On 02 March 2022 Hjort Nidudsson released a new version.

 Home page: https://github.com/nidud/doszip
 Download: https://github.com/nidud/doszip/releases/tag/v2.63

 Changes since version 2.55 are:
 Changes in 2.63 - 2 Mar 2022
 - extended country-specific date format

 Changes in 2.58 - 15 Feb 2022
 - added country-specific date format

 Changes in 2.57 - 12 Feb 2022
 - changed "Jump" to "Skip" in Delete dialog
 - fixed color issue in Move dialog
 - fixed issue with pipe command -- unzip -hh | more




https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=18798


 On 13 March 2022 Mateusz Viste released SvarCOM version 2022.3.

 What is SvarCOM?

 Quoting from http://svardos.org/svarcom/:
 SvarCOM is the SvarDOS command line interpreter, known usually under
 the name "COMMAND.COM". It is designed and maintained by Mateusz
 Viste, and distributed under the terms of the MIT license.

 For the time being, it is a work-in-progress project that - although
 functional - is not entirely polished yet and might miss a few bits
 and pieces. SvarCOM version 2022.0 must be considered a "preview"
 version. See the documentation included in the zip file for details.

 SvarCOM is minimalist and I'd like to keep it that way. It aims to be
 functionaly equivalent to COMMAND.COM from MS-DOS 5.x/6.x. No LFN
 support.

 As of version 2022.0, SvarCOM's resident footprint is under 2 KiB.

 What is new in version 2022.3?

 Here is his 2022.3 announcement to the SvarDOS mailing list:
 Hello all,

 SvarCOM 2022.3 has been published right now. It comes with many
 improvements and bug fixes. Many thanks to Robert Riebisch who dedicated
 a lot of time to perform extensive tests on SvarCOM and had the strength
 to annoy me over and over about the various glitches he found.

 The new SvarCOM package is already available on the SvarDOS packages
 repository. It can also be downloaded from the SvarCOM sub-project page
 at http://svardos.org/svarcom

 As an experiment I did a SvarDOS build that uses SvarCOM instead of
 FreeCOM. It is the build 20220312, available in the "files" section of
 the website: http://svardos.org/?p=files

 If this build proves stable enough, it might become the default download
 presented on the main page, but for now it needs some testing. There is
 also still one or two things that needs to be added (like DIR/O support).

 The main advantage of SvarCOM over the legacy FreeCOM is that the former
 is much lighter (2K of memory footprint), which is esp. important on
 pre-386 machines.

 An interesting side effect of replacing FreeCOM by SvarCOM is that some
 of the SvarDOS floppy sets decreased:

 720K set went from 4 floppies to 3 floppies
 1.2M set went from 3 floppies to 2 floppies

 Other sets remained the same amount of floppies (6x 360K, 2x 1.44M and
 1x 2.88M)

 Note for the future: there are cases where it is possible to decrease
 the amount of floppies simply by ordering files on the floppies
 differently. For instance, it is possible to decrease the 360K set to 5
 floppies now, just by moving files from disk #6 to other disks. This is
 something that will be optimized in the future, but I don't want to do
 it manually, it has to be an automated process, and the installer must
 be aware of the exact disposition of files on floppies to avoid asking
 twice for the same floppy.

 Mateusz

 Changes since last release (2022.2) are:
 - fixed stdin redirection handling (was broken since 2022.1) [#44027]
 - only COM, EXE and BAT files are allowed for execution [#44068]
 - FOR command: accepts control characters as pattern delimiters [#44058]
 - FOR command: patterns without wildcards are processed as messages
 [#44058]
 - implemented the TRUENAME command [#44051]
 - DIR command: /a:xxx is supported like an equivalent t

Re: [Freedos-user] which mpxplay?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi bear,
Thanks for this.  sorry needed to check.
it seems I have mpxplay 147 156 157   and 159.
I have not tried 166 but will seek that out.
I am not running freedos, but a ms dos 7.1  package on a Pentium 3 machine.
 the best news for me here is that I can perhaps manipulate the ini file?
This specific machine has the sound card on a different IRQ so I will 
need to adjust that if possible.

Thanks for providing your additions for me,
Karen



On Mon, 7 Feb 2022, Björn Morell wrote:

 I run ver. 166d on my freedos 1.3 RC5 installation on an IBM 486 100 mhz It 
may take some tweaking in the ini file I can run it with graphics as well 
(and scroll, pick and start works with cutemouse /O but starting with the -f0 
switch "mpxplay -f0 song.mp3" no gui gives the best sound on this machine, on 
what are you running yours ? I have a bunch of versions from 1.47 which does 
not take all switches but runs easy, 1.534 is made for 486:s, 1.56d, 1.65d 
,1.65g (needs dos4gw)  and 1.66. Read the text files and the ini file and 
you will have the info you need.


Bear

Den 2022-02-06 kl. 23:04, skrev Karen Lewellen:

 Hi folks,
 I am asking for specifics, as I believe? Eric noted when the program was
 last updated that for simple DOS usage things may be less flexible.
 so, if one is not running graphics, which edition of mpxplay is best?
 I have several older ones, if upgrading is unwise.
 still, because this DOS machine uses a different IRQ, I will need to tell
 the program where to find my soundcard.
 Alternatively, has  anyone here used the 2012 DOS compile of mplayer?
 I got the package, but there is no DOS focused documentation.
 Thanks,
 Karen




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[Freedos-user] which mpxplay?

[Karen Lewellen]

Hi folks,
I am asking for specifics, as I believe? Eric noted when the program was 
last updated that for simple DOS usage things may be less flexible.

so, if one is not running graphics, which edition of mpxplay is best?
I have several older ones, if upgrading is unwise.
still, because this DOS machine uses a different IRQ, I will need to 
tell the program where to find my soundcard.

Alternatively, has  anyone here used the 2012 DOS compile of mplayer?
I got the package, but there is no DOS focused documentation.
Thanks,
Karen




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Re: [Freedos-user] Request for developers... (fwd)

[Karen Lewellen]

You will want to share any ideas with the source of that post, as I do not 
believe  they are a member here.




On Wed, 29 Dec 2021, Matej Horvat wrote:


What is most needed is to compile DOS Arachne as 32bit


Potential starting point:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150215203536/http://www.drdosprojects.de/index.cgi/other.htm


and to give it HTTPS capability via WATT32 & OpenSSL


Or LibreSSL:
https://github.com/markjolesen/openbsd


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