Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hello, I think that it's a good idea overall that one can decide the folder where one can install the big programs, as could be to have a OpenWatcom or FreePascal distribution, whereas the single-binary ones (or equally smaller) should be merged into the freedos\bin directory. 2009/4/6 Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de: devel - mostly compilers and libraries, several could go into global lib/ and compile/ directories and a few big ones would have their own directory, eg watcom What would that global lib/ folder be about? If it is about storing LIB files, I remind you that we (or more specifically, you) voted against having FREEDOS\LIB for such thing long ago (whereas I lined for and lost), with the argument that such stuff should go preferably uncompiled, and in any case under SOURCE folder. ;) In any case, I don't think it's a good idea for devel stuff: if it's a small compiler, such as NASM, UPX, then it can fit in \freedos\bin. As for the big ones (e.g. OpenWatcom), they need not be treated different from any other big stuff (like Arachne). Cheers, Aitor -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hi, as long as core / tool programs are in some directory in PATH, things will be fine. For other apps, people can add a batch into one of the directories in PATH or they can use ALIAS or just chdir to the place to run stuff :-). Of course PATH can differ between different DOSes and different people who make different decisions on where to install DOS, but it always points to a place where you can find at least the basic DOS. Eric Utilities too late the party? Because I think the utilities and freedos core should be separated. Here is one reason why. Say I am working on a program that I want to be dos compatible. any Dos and not just free dos, or I need to test the compatibility. C:\FDOS C:\MSDOS etc and this could be done with a simple batch menu. But I may want to use things that are in the freedos bin direcory but since they are mixed in with the standard freedos applications I have to manual type in the whole path to use them because the aren't separated. as for package determination, yes its an extra step but I think its the right one to make. is this core or not not too hard of a question. :) if everything executable in mixed together it becomes difficult to manage. I know it more work but sometimes more work is required. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hi! It appears that any binary package installed on FreeDOS goes to /BIN. Almost. Packages which need many files in the same BINish directory have separate directories. This includes for example Arachne, DOG, Emacs, Network and USB driver bags, FBC, GhostScript, the 1.0 game collection, FDSMTPOP, LYNX, OpenXP, PacificC, Pegasus Mail, SETEDIT with plugins and maybe other packages in FreeDOS 1.0 ... Note that some of the packages have few enough files to move them to the main BIN directory while others got replaced etc etc :-). Besides that, there's no clear directive about how to install 3rd party apps. I would propose the following rules: - Any DOS replacement stuff (move, tree, format...) goes to \BIN\ - Any system enhacement (grep, ls, pcisleep, cwsdpmi, fdupdate...) goes to \SBIN\ You can do that but should not overdo it. For example the 2.88 MB one disk variant of the Rugxulo distro has: utils, system, media, games, fdos and docs as main category directories. For a normal FreeDOS CD / DVD / USB / harddisk distro, I think the structure of FreeDOS 1.0 is better than the structure of Rugxulo 2.88, though. - Any 3rd party program (SEAL, Arachne, FreeBASIC, MPXPLAY...) goes to $apps\programs\ - Any 3rd party game (Doom...) goes to $apps\games\ See above - but APPS is just the same as DOSDIR in FreeDOS 1.0 :-) Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
On Monday 06 April 2009 01:50, Jim Hall wrote: I once had an idea that we should put an LSM header/comment in the zip file. If the FD package tool saw an LSM there, it would know the zip file was really a FD pkg and not a third-party zip file. Hi Jim! We already may check that, simply looking wheter there is a \appinfo\*.lsm file or not. The idea was rather to make a difference between FreeDOS packages containing system files, like format and FreeDOS packages containing some other apps, like Arachne. Something in a concept similar to RPM packages :-) As of today, we have no such possibility, as our packages are all unzipped in %DOSDIR%\, which is IMHO a not-so-good idea for third party applications... Say, I have FreeDOS installed on C:\FREEDOS. When I install a FreeDOS package containing a non-system application (like Arachne, or SEAL), I would prefer if it was unzipped, say, in D:\APPS\ instead. Why would it be better to package normal (non-system) applications into FreeDOS packages? Well... for the simple reason to get big advantages which we all know from RPM. For example, I install MPXPLAY v1.0 during my FreeDOS install, then, after 3 months, there comes a MPXPLAY 1.1. All I would have to do is launch FDUPDATE to happily update the thing. :-) Or, say that after 3 months I would like to get a MIDI player as well. All I would have to do is launch FDUPDATE /NEW, browser the list of packages to find a MIDI player which pleases me, and install it. Or maybe am I just dreaming? :-) Best regards, Mateusz -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
On Monday 06 April 2009 01:18, Michael Reichenbach wrote: I am working on an DOS application I wanted to package into FreeDOS's format by default. My exe is using a file called cwsdpmi.exe but cwsdpmi.exe is actually a renamed hdpmi32.exe. Normally I would assume to cd to the folder where my app is inside and to start it from there. But if it's all mixed into the /bin directory the normal cwsdpmi.exe will be overwritten. I hear you loud and clear, Michael :-) This is exactly what I am talking about - mixing DOS applications is not a good thing, as they never was intended to. The solution for you would be to make a FreeDOS package ziping your stuff in a global subdirectory called \myprog, somehow tag it as a 3rd party app, and push on FDUPDATE server. Then, if I would want to install it, I would only have to launch FDUPDATE /NEW, choose your program from the list, and press ENTER. With a way to mark packages as 3rd-party, the package manager would know that your package do not have to be unzipped into %DOSDIR%, and would unzip it into %DOSAPPS% instead (which would point, for example, to D:\APPS\). But well... so far, it's only a dream about how I would like to use FreeDOS v1.1 :-) Best regards, Mateusz -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
On Monday 06 April 2009 00:14, Marco Antonio Achury Palma wrote: Any usual commercial and shareware apps for msdos with an install create its own dir. To have 100+ folders at apps is not good. why not: /office /dev /audio /video /games/adventure /games/arcade /games/puzzle I guess you're asking for too much, Marco ;-) Having a global directory for apps will be already good enough. Then, it would be easy to package programs and games into subdirectory like \games\fpp\doom\ instead of just \doom\. But I think it is not something we should take care of at the implementation level, rather a packaging preference of the guy who would package applications for FreeDOS. Best regards, Mateusz -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hi! Any usual commercial and shareware apps for msdos with an install create its own dir. To have 100+ folders at apps is not good. We do not have many apps: Everything in BASE can go into the same fdos/bin directory for example, and many of the UTIL things can be sorted into relatively few directories such as driver if you do not want to put most of UTIL into global directories as well... I would only use a separate directory for apps with more than 5 files that would otherwise go into bin (not docs, nls, sources...). /office /dev /audio /video /games/adventure /games/arcade /games/puzzle I myself had that style of sorting for my OTHER apps but if you look at FreeDOS you see we do not have so varied software: www.freedos.org/freedos/software/ base - all in one directory boot - just a few boot managers which could go into boot/ devel - mostly compilers and libraries, several could go into global lib/ and compile/ directories and a few big ones would have their own directory, eg watcom edit - dunno about mined but osplus, fed, tde and maybe blocek can share a place... setedit, emacs, vim are big gui - only contains OpenGEM which has a separate directory with several subdirectories :-) net - wattcp / ertos should probably go into devel, lsicq is useless with modern servers, arachne has a separate dir, many of the others are probably small enough to share one? sound - can easily share one directory, even mpxplay :-) util - basically everything here can either go into the main fdos bin (etc...) directory or maybe use one or two extra directories such as drivers and tools I guess you're asking for too much, Marco ;-) I personally would not over-sort the distro. People can sort the things they download elsewhere as much as they want but I would initially keep most of the distro itself bundled into few directories, also to keep PATH short. Having a global directory for apps will be already good enough. Then, it would be easy to package programs and games into subdirectory like \games\fpp\doom\ instead of just \doom\. But I think it is not something we should take care of at the implementation level, rather a packaging preference of the guy who would package applications for FreeDOS. Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hi! My exe is using a file called cwsdpmi.exe but cwsdpmi.exe is actually a renamed hdpmi32.exe. Normally I would assume to cd to the folder where my app is inside and to start it from there. But if it's all mixed into the /bin directory the normal cwsdpmi.exe will be overwritten. It is a bad idea to rename 1 exe to fake another one if you ask me. People who want to use hdpmi can just type hdpmi... :-p. Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hi, We already may check that, simply looking wheter there is a \appinfo\*.lsm file or not. The idea was rather to make a difference between FreeDOS packages containing system files, like format and FreeDOS packages containing some other apps, like Arachne. Something in a concept similar to RPM packages :-) As of today, we have no such possibility, as our packages are all unzipped in %DOSDIR%\, which is IMHO a not-so-good idea for third party applications... Say, I have FreeDOS installed on C:\FREEDOS. When I install a FreeDOS package containing a non-system application (like Arachne, or SEAL), I would prefer if it was unzipped, say, in D:\APPS\ instead. Why would it be better to package normal (non-system) applications into FreeDOS packages? Well... for the simple reason to get big advantages which we all know from RPM. For example, I install MPXPLAY v1.0 during my FreeDOS install, then, after 3 months, there comes a MPXPLAY 1.1. All I would have to do is launch FDUPDATE to happily update the thing. :-) Or, say that after 3 months I would like to get a MIDI player as well. All I would have to do is launch FDUPDATE /NEW, browser the list of packages to find a MIDI player which pleases me, and install it. I would just use all things with appinfo LSM as FreeDOS package but would use a different directory structure for eg Arachne to avoid clobbering global directories with many files from Arachne :-) This is exactly what we already did for FreeDOS 1.0 afair. Smaller apps like MPXPLAY can easily share one directory, but it need not be the same directory as the one for base freedos. Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hi again and sorry for adding to the high mail traffic :-p there are many approach to do this, but we need to follow a practical approach so, i'm in favor of a \bin directory for all fd packages and 3rd party sw should be separeted with their developers don't want to create a 'fdished package' Base and simple packages can share BIN and all other packages IN the distro can be packaged in fd-ish way by us, possibly with adjusted directory structure but still with SIMILAR dir structure... Sort of similar to /opt in Linux. See my other mail where I wrote that MPXPLAY can easily share a directory with other sound software in the distro or maybe even can share the main bin directory, while ARACHNE would be in a separate directory tree - but that tree would be already pre-defined by the way that our people would FDPKG-package Arachne for us. Third party stuff from OUTSIDE the distro is just that - not managed by FDPKG etc etc but just free to the user to download and unzip and rearrange in any way they want. I know, some Linux distros have tools to manage your loosely downloaded stuff from TGZ as well but I know nobody who really uses such tools. At least I personally am happy that those packages which come as RPM or DEB are fine for my Linux package managers and for those which come in different shapes I just do the usual configure make make install and forget about the details. When I want to update a non packaged package, I just install the new version, and when I want to remove one, I just delete some of the files by hand :-p Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: High Quality Requirements in a Collaborative Environment. Download a free trial of Rational Requirements Composer Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-ibm-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
- Any DOS replacement stuff (move, tree, format...) goes to \BIN\ - Any system enhacement (grep, ls, pcisleep, cwsdpmi, fdupdate...) goes to \SBIN\ Why should I want two directories with binaries? Plus, some of the binaries might be appropriate for both \BIN and \SBIN (even FORMAT!). Regards, Christian -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 6:48 AM, Christian Masloch c...@bttr-software.de wrote: - Any DOS replacement stuff (move, tree, format...) goes to \BIN\ - Any system enhacement (grep, ls, pcisleep, cwsdpmi, fdupdate...) goes to \SBIN\ Why should I want two directories with binaries? Plus, some of the binaries might be appropriate for both \BIN and \SBIN (even FORMAT!). I think Mateusz is suggesting separating the programs from the base list (in ...\BIN) from those that are in devel or util (in ...\SBIN). In this case, FORMAT would show up in ...\BIN. This level of separation isn't a good idea, IMO. It will make package creation much harder, because the person making the package will need to have some knowledge of where this program would need to be installed. That's probably easy if it's only Mateusz making the packages - but will be much more difficult to maintain this if the developers themselves put their zip file in FD package format. Imagine all the (new?) packages that should really be in util that might be put in ...\BIN format because the developer/contributor wants them to be in base (even though the program might not replicate any original functionality of MSDOS.) The zip file would look like it's in pkg format, but really someone would need to go into the file and put it into the ...\SBIN layout. It's better to keep with the original spec on this, use the ...\BIN for all binaries. -jh -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
On Sunday 05 April 2009 16:11, Jim Hall wrote: I think Mateusz is suggesting separating the programs from the base list (in ...\BIN) from those that are in devel or util (in ...\SBIN). In this case, FORMAT would show up in ...\BIN. Yes, it was indeed my idea... Imagine all the (new?) packages that should really be in util that might be put in ...\BIN format because the developer/contributor wants them to be in base (even though the program might not replicate any original functionality of MSDOS.) I guess you're right here, Jim ;-) We should look at FreeDOS as an independant system, not just a MSDOS replacement... It's better to keep with the original spec on this, use the ...\BIN for all binaries. Okay, let's not change a wining team then :) How about installing 3rd party applications? I searched through FreeDOS technotes, but couldn't find anything related to packages installation paths... FreeDOS v1.0 was installing all third-party applications in the FreeDOS directory, which is IMHO a very bad thing. Many people wants to keep theirs applications in a separate path, for eg. on a different hard drive. Having a environement variable pointing to the place where all my games/programs have to go would definitely resolve this issue. That's something the FreeDOS installer should ask for at the installation (Where do you want to put FreeDOS files? Where do you want to put any non-freedos applications?). However, it's not a trivial thing to do, as we would need a way to tell this is a FreeDOS package, while this one is 3rd party one. Nothing like that is ready today. Obviously, it would require some additional developpement on FDPKG, too... Best regards, Mateusz Viste -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Utilities too late the party? Because I think the utilities and freedos core should be separated. Here is one reason why. Say I am working on a program that I want to be dos compatible. any Dos and not just free dos, or I need to test the compatibility. C:\FDOS C:\MSDOS etc and this could be done with a simple batch menu. But I may want to use things that are in the freedos bin direcory but since they are mixed in with the standard freedos applications I have to manual type in the whole path to use them because the aren't separated. as for package determination, yes its an extra step but I think its the right one to make. is this core or not not too hard of a question. :) if everything executable in mixed together it becomes difficult to manage. I know it more work but sometimes more work is required. I have only submitted one package so far, but I plan to do a whole lot more. just my .02 cents worth. usul -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
I agree is nice to have separated paths for base system and apps. This is the good old way to make things. The most of the dos apps are self contained without dependencies. One problem I remember is to have path to all the apps, sometimes become bigger than the available environment variable space. A new different solution may be create a bat file for each app, or a text database with descriptive name and path to any executable. this is useful to generate automated launch menu. 2009/4/5, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste-family.net: On Sunday 05 April 2009 16:11, Jim Hall wrote: I think Mateusz is suggesting separating the programs from the base list (in ...\BIN) from those that are in devel or util (in ...\SBIN). In this case, FORMAT would show up in ...\BIN. Yes, it was indeed my idea... Imagine all the (new?) packages that should really be in util that might be put in ...\BIN format because the developer/contributor wants them to be in base (even though the program might not replicate any original functionality of MSDOS.) I guess you're right here, Jim ;-) We should look at FreeDOS as an independant system, not just a MSDOS replacement... It's better to keep with the original spec on this, use the ...\BIN for all binaries. Okay, let's not change a wining team then :) How about installing 3rd party applications? I searched through FreeDOS technotes, but couldn't find anything related to packages installation paths... FreeDOS v1.0 was installing all third-party applications in the FreeDOS directory, which is IMHO a very bad thing. Many people wants to keep theirs applications in a separate path, for eg. on a different hard drive. Having a environement variable pointing to the place where all my games/programs have to go would definitely resolve this issue. That's something the FreeDOS installer should ask for at the installation (Where do you want to put FreeDOS files? Where do you want to put any non-freedos applications?). However, it's not a trivial thing to do, as we would need a way to tell this is a FreeDOS package, while this one is 3rd party one. Nothing like that is ready today. Obviously, it would require some additional developpement on FDPKG, too... Best regards, Mateusz Viste -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key -- -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Marco A. Achury Tel: +58-(212)-6158777 Cel: +58-(414)-3142282 Fax: +58-(212)-2410828 Skype: marcoachury www.geocities.com/marcoachury -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
On Sunday 05 April 2009 19:15, Marco Antonio Achury Palma wrote: I agree is nice to have separated paths for base system and apps. This is the good old way to make things. The most of the dos apps are self contained without dependencies. One problem I remember is to have path to all the apps, sometimes become bigger than the available environment variable space. A new different solution may be create a bat file for each app, or a text database with descriptive name and path to any executable. this is useful to generate automated launch menu. Well, the \BIN directory is only for system stuff. Any third-party things won't be there anyway. The real question is is there any advantage to put some really basic system files into \BIN and more advanced one in \SBIN. I was thinking about making a difference between package giving MSDOS functionality and other system enhacements, but as Jim said - it doesn't seem to be a quite fortunate choice, as it will most probably lead to a bigger mess than we have currently... The problem which is (at least to me) important know, is to decide how will we package 3rd package application for a FD v1.1 installation. The old way would be to put them into \programs and \games subdirectories of the FreeDOS install (that's how we done it in v1.0), but it doesn't sound right to me... Regards, Mateusz Viste 2009/4/5, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste-family.net: On Sunday 05 April 2009 16:11, Jim Hall wrote: I think Mateusz is suggesting separating the programs from the base list (in ...\BIN) from those that are in devel or util (in ...\SBIN). In this case, FORMAT would show up in ...\BIN. Yes, it was indeed my idea... Imagine all the (new?) packages that should really be in util that might be put in ...\BIN format because the developer/contributor wants them to be in base (even though the program might not replicate any original functionality of MSDOS.) I guess you're right here, Jim ;-) We should look at FreeDOS as an independant system, not just a MSDOS replacement... It's better to keep with the original spec on this, use the ...\BIN for all binaries. Okay, let's not change a wining team then :) How about installing 3rd party applications? I searched through FreeDOS technotes, but couldn't find anything related to packages installation paths... FreeDOS v1.0 was installing all third-party applications in the FreeDOS directory, which is IMHO a very bad thing. Many people wants to keep theirs applications in a separate path, for eg. on a different hard drive. Having a environement variable pointing to the place where all my games/programs have to go would definitely resolve this issue. That's something the FreeDOS installer should ask for at the installation (Where do you want to put FreeDOS files? Where do you want to put any non-freedos applications?). However, it's not a trivial thing to do, as we would need a way to tell this is a FreeDOS package, while this one is 3rd party one. Nothing like that is ready today. Obviously, it would require some additional developpement on FDPKG, too... Best regards, Mateusz Viste -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key -- -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Any usual commercial and shareware apps for msdos with an install create its own dir. To have 100+ folders at apps is not good. why not: /office /dev /audio /video /games/adventure /games/arcade /games/puzzle 2009/4/5, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste-family.net: On Sunday 05 April 2009 19:15, Marco Antonio Achury Palma wrote: I agree is nice to have separated paths for base system and apps. This is the good old way to make things. The most of the dos apps are self contained without dependencies. One problem I remember is to have path to all the apps, sometimes become bigger than the available environment variable space. A new different solution may be create a bat file for each app, or a text database with descriptive name and path to any executable. this is useful to generate automated launch menu. Well, the \BIN directory is only for system stuff. Any third-party things won't be there anyway. The real question is is there any advantage to put some really basic system files into \BIN and more advanced one in \SBIN. I was thinking about making a difference between package giving MSDOS functionality and other system enhacements, but as Jim said - it doesn't seem to be a quite fortunate choice, as it will most probably lead to a bigger mess than we have currently... The problem which is (at least to me) important know, is to decide how will we package 3rd package application for a FD v1.1 installation. The old way would be to put them into \programs and \games subdirectories of the FreeDOS install (that's how we done it in v1.0), but it doesn't sound right to me... Regards, Mateusz Viste 2009/4/5, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste-family.net: On Sunday 05 April 2009 16:11, Jim Hall wrote: I think Mateusz is suggesting separating the programs from the base list (in ...\BIN) from those that are in devel or util (in ...\SBIN). In this case, FORMAT would show up in ...\BIN. Yes, it was indeed my idea... Imagine all the (new?) packages that should really be in util that might be put in ...\BIN format because the developer/contributor wants them to be in base (even though the program might not replicate any original functionality of MSDOS.) I guess you're right here, Jim ;-) We should look at FreeDOS as an independant system, not just a MSDOS replacement... It's better to keep with the original spec on this, use the ...\BIN for all binaries. Okay, let's not change a wining team then :) How about installing 3rd party applications? I searched through FreeDOS technotes, but couldn't find anything related to packages installation paths... FreeDOS v1.0 was installing all third-party applications in the FreeDOS directory, which is IMHO a very bad thing. Many people wants to keep theirs applications in a separate path, for eg. on a different hard drive. Having a environement variable pointing to the place where all my games/programs have to go would definitely resolve this issue. That's something the FreeDOS installer should ask for at the installation (Where do you want to put FreeDOS files? Where do you want to put any non-freedos applications?). However, it's not a trivial thing to do, as we would need a way to tell this is a FreeDOS package, while this one is 3rd party one. Nothing like that is ready today. Obviously, it would require some additional developpement on FDPKG, too... Best regards, Mateusz Viste -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key -- -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key -- -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Marco A. Achury Tel: +58-(212)-6158777 Cel: +58-(414)-3142282 Fax: +58-(212)-2410828 Skype: marcoachury www.geocities.com/marcoachury -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Well, I also thought about that. I am working on an DOS application I wanted to package into FreeDOS's format by default. My exe is using a file called cwsdpmi.exe but cwsdpmi.exe is actually a renamed hdpmi32.exe. Normally I would assume to cd to the folder where my app is inside and to start it from there. But if it's all mixed into the /bin directory the normal cwsdpmi.exe will be overwritten. I could statically link hdpmi32 into my exe but for now this is not a part of my skills and because it differs for all compilers this is really bugging. -mr -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
However, it's not a trivial thing to do, as we would need a way to tell this is a FreeDOS package, while this one is 3rd party one. Nothing like that is ready today. Obviously, it would require some additional developpement on FDPKG, too... I once had an idea that we should put an LSM header/comment in the zip file. If the FD package tool saw an LSM there, it would know the zip file was really a FD pkg and not a third-party zip file. -jh -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
It appears that any binary package installed on FreeDOS goes to /BIN. Besides that, there's no clear directive about how to install 3rd party apps. It should be %DOSDIR%\bin I would propose the following rules: - Any DOS replacement stuff (move, tree, format...) goes to \BIN\ - Any system enhacement (grep, ls, pcisleep, cwsdpmi, fdupdate...) goes to \SBIN\ Why? This would mean that the %PATH% variable would need to be longer. - Any 3rd party program (SEAL, Arachne, FreeBASIC, MPXPLAY...) goes to $apps\programs\ Currently in FD1.0 , seal goes in %DOSDIR%\seal, arachne in %DOSDIR%\arachne, etc... MPXPlay only has a single binary (plus possibly dlls), so I would package that to go in %DOSDIR%\bin. - Any 3rd party game (Doom...) goes to $apps\games\ Games in FD 1.0 go in %DOSDIR%\games\gamename, so similar idea. Obviously, it would require to set a mandatry $apps env variable, and extends the PATH to \SBIN\ as well. What are you thinking about that? Discussion's open ;-) Regards, Mateusz Viste -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Is better to do something like %DOSAPPS% so you can have apps on their own dir 2009/4/5, Blair Campbell blaird...@gmail.com: It appears that any binary package installed on FreeDOS goes to /BIN. Besides that, there's no clear directive about how to install 3rd party apps. It should be %DOSDIR%\bin I would propose the following rules: - Any DOS replacement stuff (move, tree, format...) goes to \BIN\ - Any system enhacement (grep, ls, pcisleep, cwsdpmi, fdupdate...) goes to \SBIN\ Why? This would mean that the %PATH% variable would need to be longer. - Any 3rd party program (SEAL, Arachne, FreeBASIC, MPXPLAY...) goes to $apps\programs\ Currently in FD1.0 , seal goes in %DOSDIR%\seal, arachne in %DOSDIR%\arachne, etc... MPXPlay only has a single binary (plus possibly dlls), so I would package that to go in %DOSDIR%\bin. - Any 3rd party game (Doom...) goes to $apps\games\ Games in FD 1.0 go in %DOSDIR%\games\gamename, so similar idea. Obviously, it would require to set a mandatry $apps env variable, and extends the PATH to \SBIN\ as well. What are you thinking about that? Discussion's open ;-) Regards, Mateusz Viste -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Marco A. Achury Tel: +58-(212)-6158777 Cel: +58-(414)-3142282 Fax: +58-(212)-2410828 Skype: marcoachury www.geocities.com/marcoachury -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Installing programs on FreeDOS v1.1
Hi guys, well, as we can see, there are many approach to do this, but we need to follow a practical approach so, i'm in favor of a \bin directory for all fd packages and 3rd party sw should be separeted with their developers don't want to create a 'fdished package' of course, this is my opinion and we must open it for vote, imho See YA! Geraldo Sapere Aude Non ducor, duco São Paulo, Brasil, -3gmt site: http://exdev.sf.net/ msn: geraldo_boca_at_hotmail.com skype: geraldo-netto icq: 145-061-456 2009/4/5 Marco Antonio Achury Palma marcoach...@gmail.com: Is better to do something like %DOSAPPS% so you can have apps on their own dir 2009/4/5, Blair Campbell blaird...@gmail.com: It appears that any binary package installed on FreeDOS goes to /BIN. Besides that, there's no clear directive about how to install 3rd party apps. It should be %DOSDIR%\bin I would propose the following rules: - Any DOS replacement stuff (move, tree, format...) goes to \BIN\ - Any system enhacement (grep, ls, pcisleep, cwsdpmi, fdupdate...) goes to \SBIN\ Why? This would mean that the %PATH% variable would need to be longer. - Any 3rd party program (SEAL, Arachne, FreeBASIC, MPXPLAY...) goes to $apps\programs\ Currently in FD1.0 , seal goes in %DOSDIR%\seal, arachne in %DOSDIR%\arachne, etc... MPXPlay only has a single binary (plus possibly dlls), so I would package that to go in %DOSDIR%\bin. - Any 3rd party game (Doom...) goes to $apps\games\ Games in FD 1.0 go in %DOSDIR%\games\gamename, so similar idea. Obviously, it would require to set a mandatry $apps env variable, and extends the PATH to \SBIN\ as well. What are you thinking about that? Discussion's open ;-) Regards, Mateusz Viste -- You'll find my public OpenPGP key at http://www.viste-family.net/mateusz/pub_key -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- -- +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Marco A. Achury Tel: +58-(212)-6158777 Cel: +58-(414)-3142282 Fax: +58-(212)-2410828 Skype: marcoachury www.geocities.com/marcoachury -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
