Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Thomas, That reminds me of earlier this year. Around Pacman's "birthday", every time you launched google, it loaded pacman. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:57 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game? Hi Hayden, H...That certainly would be interesting. i know for a fact several Atari classics like Packman etc have been created as online web games, but I don't know that the technology is there to make them fully accessible as you don't have access to things like OpenAL, DirectX, etc so can not take advantage of higher end audio support, etc that I know of. Online gaming in its own way is still in the developmental stage, and aside from a few games from Blind Adrenaline, Audiogames.net, and All in Play accessible online games are still very muchexperimental itself. It would be interesting if someone could create a Packman Talks or something like it for the web. Although, my own knoledge of something like Flash and Shockwave is pretty little. I know Java pretty well, but as I mentioned before I know the developer would need something more complex than the java.applet.AudioClip class for rendering something like 3d audio and so on. Smile. On 6/28/10, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Thomas, > Just try to imagine pacman talks as a web game. That would be a nightmare. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Thomas, Yep, he's just now put them in, though I don't actually know how good they are as I don't know many sighted people on the site. There are a few though. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:36 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game? Hi Hayden, Thanks. I didn't know that. I've never actually played any of Che's card games so didn't know he has started using graphics. Glad to here it. Smile. On 6/28/10, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Thomas, > Correction. Che's cardgames now have graphics as well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Hayden, H...That certainly would be interesting. i know for a fact several Atari classics like Packman etc have been created as online web games, but I don't know that the technology is there to make them fully accessible as you don't have access to things like OpenAL, DirectX, etc so can not take advantage of higher end audio support, etc that I know of. Online gaming in its own way is still in the developmental stage, and aside from a few games from Blind Adrenaline, Audiogames.net, and All in Play accessible online games are still very muchexperimental itself. It would be interesting if someone could create a Packman Talks or something like it for the web. Although, my own knoledge of something like Flash and Shockwave is pretty little. I know Java pretty well, but as I mentioned before I know the developer would need something more complex than the java.applet.AudioClip class for rendering something like 3d audio and so on. Smile. On 6/28/10, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Thomas, > Just try to imagine pacman talks as a web game. That would be a nightmare. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Hayden, Thanks. I didn't know that. I've never actually played any of Che's card games so didn't know he has started using graphics. Glad to here it. Smile. On 6/28/10, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Thomas, > Correction. Che's cardgames now have graphics as well. > > Best Regards, > Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Thomas, Just try to imagine pacman talks as a web game. That would be a nightmare. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 11:29 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game? Hi, As you say a lot depends on exactly the type of game that is going to be created. However, making a game web based actually would make matters worse not better as it is harder to incorperate accessibility features into the program. Here is a simple example of what I mean. With a language like Java you can create web applets, an applet type game, and incorperate it into a web page. That's fine as far as it goes but the problem here is that the Java applet package only offers extremely simple audio output like load, play, and stop sounds. Hardly what we would want if we need to create an audio environment where we needs sounds panned left or right, change the volume based on distance, etc. In that case creating the program as a web applet becomes an accessibility hazard instead of a help. The only solution is to create it as a stand alone game and use a more advanced audio API like the javax sound package which has the ability to pan sounds, change volume, and a bunch of other more advanced sound goodies. Make sense? On 6/27/10, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Steve, > The only one I could put forward an answer for is screen readers. It would, > depending on what you make, probably be more difficult. However, if this is > web based, then that's probably the easier avenue of voicing. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Shaun, Yes. One thing, excuse howpicky this may sound, that I have a problem with in regards to Terraformers is the way the voice is done. I swear, I can almost hear her tongue clicking. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 4:53 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game? well there are examples. 1. teraformas. this game had graphics and sound though probably not as good as shades of doom or gtc as an experimental game it was quite interesting. Unfortunately its never been updated so some bugs still remain. the blind eye is a prime example on what is not a good thing to do with an accessible game. Its never been fixeither. shades of doom was one of the first fps games out there. it has most of what could be benificial for the blind to play. gtc is also a good game. Entombed is a good rpg style at least it should work in that sort of way. soundrts and time of conflict could lend some help to. finally final conflict has simple menus and key commands. though old its still good for what it is. At 12:14 a.m. 28/06/2010, you wrote: >Hi list. I have a few questions regarding the realistic >possibilities of incorporating accessibility within a graphical >game...and I'm hoping some list members would be able to offer >their advice. I have a sighted programmer friend who has taken an >interest in how I would go about playing a game...and we got onto >the subject of how accessibility could be built into a visual game. > >Anyway, if anyone could answer some basic questions below, I'd >really appreciate it, as this would firstly clear up "non possible" >avenues and secondly, give us the possible avenues to play with. At >this point, can I just say, if it is possible to do this, a very >simple graphical game would be on the table for an experiment, >probably self voicing and web-based, but could be client based. > >1. What is the best combination for accessibility within a visual >environment. E.g, Java (graphics) and self-voicing? Flash (graphics) >and self-voicing? Java (graphics) and a client TTS based program? etc... >2. Would 1 approach be more difficult than another? E.g, >screenreader over self-voicing? >3. Are there any examples of such a graphical game which offer a >good gaming experience to both the blind and sighted, which >incorporate audio accessibility? > >Hopefully you understand what I'm asking. In a nutshell, the blind >have no need for graphics and the sighted need graphics, so I'm >guessing there hasn't been a great need to marry the two...but is it >possible and what road would we go down to make it possible. >Many thanks, have a great day, cheers Steve. > > >Visit: www.crustysocks.com >Contact me: >Skype: steve-chase >MSN: stevesa...@hotmail.com >E-Mail: st...@crustysocks.com >Tel: +44 (0) 77333 73714 >--- >Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. >If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Thomas, Correction. Che's cardgames now have graphics as well. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 6:53 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game? Hi Steve, Interesting. I don't know of many accessible game developers that have created a web based game that was both visually graphical and fully accessible to a blind player other than All in Plays card games. One game that might help you and the developer of this game is an accessible game called Sudo-San. It is written in Flash, is played on the web, is simple, and can be found at http://www.audiogames.net/playcenter/ and could be a good starting place for looking into developing browser based games for the blind and sighted. HTH On 6/28/10, Steve S wrote: > Hi Shaun and thanks for the info. The range of games is amazing, but what's > in mind at the moment is not a complex game, it's how to make, let's say a > shooting game that people play daily on the web accessible. My son plays > Call of Duty and all those mind blowing games on the PS3, but believe me he > loves playing other games on the web, that you would probably find boring. > I don't think it's because the game is boring, it's because we can't get > immersed in it's simplisity, because we can't get involved for example. > > Like I said in a previous post...a game he played, he aimed the mouse and > clicked, he then clicked again when looking at a visual meter to shoot...he > was on that game for about 1 hour 15 mins...and he had COD upstairs! The > game offered a lot of thought, calculation and game play against another > person in another country, pretty rewarding. So, there lies the quest. The > best way to have a VIP move that mouse with the keyboard, select the > position and get involved in the on line game-play...that's just an example, > but see what I mean. I hope to learn what's needed, because that can always > lead on to more complex projects, cheers Steve. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a, visual/graphical game?
Hi Eleanor, thanks for the information and link to the site...I'll check it out tomorrow when I have time, cheers Steve. - Original Message - From: "Eleanor" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 2:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a,visual/graphical game? There are several ways in which a graphical game can be made accessible. It is always easier to do if it is planned in from the beginning, but at least some accessibility can be added. We use both Java and self-voicing AND compatibility with JAWS. We are exploring the use of Flash and self-voicing and should have some answers regarding that by the end of the summer. As for examples of graphical games that are accessible, check out our 7-128 Software games. Yes they are casual games but will provide an example of using graphics and self voicing/screen reader accessibility in the same game. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a, visual/graphical game?
Maybe you could say for an example or here or what. Also, they could put panning and speech in the game. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: "Eleanor" To: Sent: Monday, June 28, 2010 2:21 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a,visual/graphical game? There are several ways in which a graphical game can be made accessible. It is always easier to do if it is planned in from the beginning, but at least some accessibility can be added. We use both Java and self-voicing AND compatibility with JAWS. We are exploring the use of Flash and self-voicing and should have some answers regarding that by the end of the summer. As for examples of graphical games that are accessible, check out our 7-128 Software games. Yes they are casual games but will provide an example of using graphics and self voicing/screen reader accessibility in the same game. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a, visual/graphical game?
There are several ways in which a graphical game can be made accessible. It is always easier to do if it is planned in from the beginning, but at least some accessibility can be added. We use both Java and self-voicing AND compatibility with JAWS. We are exploring the use of Flash and self-voicing and should have some answers regarding that by the end of the summer. As for examples of graphical games that are accessible, check out our 7-128 Software games. Yes they are casual games but will provide an example of using graphics and self voicing/screen reader accessibility in the same game. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Steve and list, Here're some answers from me... Question 1: What is the best combination for accessibility within a visual environment. E.g, Java (graphics) and self-voicing? Flash (graphics) and self-voicing? Java (graphics) and a client TTS based program? etc... Answer: The choice of technology depends very much on the type of game that you are going to develop. You need to know the type of graphics that the game is going to use (3D or 2D) and also the platform on which the game is played (PC, iPhone/iPad or (handheld) console, online in browser on website/ Facebook, etc.). There's a wide range of game technology out there so you first need to be more specific. But I can tell you this already: Java and Flash are currently the most popular apps for 2D online/offline graphics, including a 2D sound engine. Unity, Director, Virtools and Quest3D are the most popular (in that order) for online/offline 3D graphics, including a 3D sound engine. Of these, only Director contains standard TTS functionality. But there are many options if you choose to develop for another platform, many including coding (for example C#) instead of scripting (ActionScript) solutions. Question 2: Would 1 approach be more difficult than another? E.g, screenreader over self-voicing? Answer: Again, this depends heavily on your game design and the type of experience that you want to accomplish. The benefit of screenreader functionality is that you don't have to produce sound file assets for the text in your game. If your game contains a lot of text this saves a lot of money and time. It also saves a lot on the size of your game (100 text files is much smaller than 100 mp3 files). The downside is that you can't control the sound of the voice on the players computer, with many people having different voices. You also need to somhow get TTS working in your game as not that many game development tools support TTS. Your game will (partially) sound like any other application and that a lot of expression thus immersion of the gamer may probably be lost, compared to a recording of a voice actor. This is one of the benefits of a self-voicing game - you can make it sound great, original, expressive and exciting. You can make it sound like a game and not Word. But of course you need to have the resources (voice over/actor (=not the same), recording capabilities, time) to do that. Also, it will make your game a lot bigger. And many development tools can simply handle multiple sound files. Question 3: Are there any examples of such a graphical game which offer a good gaming experience to both the blind and sighted, which incorporate audio accessibility? Answer: Aside from the obvious ones such as Terraformers and The Blind Eye, that others have already mentioned, there are several games in our AudioGames.net database that feature visuals and from which can be learned. Such as: http://www.audiogames.net/sudosan/ http://www.audiogames.net/thecurbgame/ http://audiogames.net/db.php?action=view&id=mueckenjagd http://audiogames.net/db.php?action=view&id=SoundVoyager http://audiogames.net/db.php?action=view&id=km2000 http://audiogames.net/db.php?action=view&id=tag Many of the above are accessible but have (light and big) design issues in one way or the other. Sudosan, which I developed, is an accessible version of the popular Sudoku puzzle. It is very boring because solving a 9x9 sudoku takes a lot longer by listening to each row and column compared to having a visual overview of the puzzle. A better solution would have been the option of a 4x4 or 6x6 sudoku. The Curb Game was intended as a (first) simple online blind-accessible video game, as there were none at that time. What we learned was that adding visuals double the production time (also see final note below). The game KM2000 is an excellent example on how why one should NOT base your accessible game design on a visual perspective. KM2000 is a racing game in which it was decided to use a top-down perspective and making it possible for a player to rotate his car 360 degrees, thus resulting in many accessibility issues and in a game that is almost unplayable. Would the designers have chosen for a 3rd person (like Outrun) or even 1st person perspective, than the game would have been a whole lot different and better. Lesson learned: base your game design and game perspective on accessibility first (only then on sound), and not on visuals (which has a different possibility space with different properties/dimensions than sound). Mueckenjagd offers a similar problem. In this fly-swatting type game, the player control a crosshair in a 2D plane (x,y). The crosshair cannot leave this plane and this will bump the edges. When you see this in action, the mechanic is very clear. But the mechanic is very unclear in just sound alone (when there is no visual plane), and it is only enhanced by the minimalistic sound design for the bump noti
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Steve, Interesting. I don't know of many accessible game developers that have created a web based game that was both visually graphical and fully accessible to a blind player other than All in Plays card games. One game that might help you and the developer of this game is an accessible game called Sudo-San. It is written in Flash, is played on the web, is simple, and can be found at http://www.audiogames.net/playcenter/ and could be a good starting place for looking into developing browser based games for the blind and sighted. HTH On 6/28/10, Steve S wrote: > Hi Shaun and thanks for the info. The range of games is amazing, but what's > in mind at the moment is not a complex game, it's how to make, let's say a > shooting game that people play daily on the web accessible. My son plays > Call of Duty and all those mind blowing games on the PS3, but believe me he > loves playing other games on the web, that you would probably find boring. > I don't think it's because the game is boring, it's because we can't get > immersed in it's simplisity, because we can't get involved for example. > > Like I said in a previous post...a game he played, he aimed the mouse and > clicked, he then clicked again when looking at a visual meter to shoot...he > was on that game for about 1 hour 15 mins...and he had COD upstairs! The > game offered a lot of thought, calculation and game play against another > person in another country, pretty rewarding. So, there lies the quest. The > best way to have a VIP move that mouse with the keyboard, select the > position and get involved in the on line game-play...that's just an example, > but see what I mean. I hope to learn what's needed, because that can always > lead on to more complex projects, cheers Steve. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Shaun and thanks for the info. The range of games is amazing, but what's in mind at the moment is not a complex game, it's how to make, let's say a shooting game that people play daily on the web accessible. My son plays Call of Duty and all those mind blowing games on the PS3, but believe me he loves playing other games on the web, that you would probably find boring. I don't think it's because the game is boring, it's because we can't get immersed in it's simplisity, because we can't get involved for example. Like I said in a previous post...a game he played, he aimed the mouse and clicked, he then clicked again when looking at a visual meter to shoot...he was on that game for about 1 hour 15 mins...and he had COD upstairs! The game offered a lot of thought, calculation and game play against another person in another country, pretty rewarding. So, there lies the quest. The best way to have a VIP move that mouse with the keyboard, select the position and get involved in the on line game-play...that's just an example, but see what I mean. I hope to learn what's needed, because that can always lead on to more complex projects, cheers Steve. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 10:53 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game? well there are examples. 1. teraformas. this game had graphics and sound though probably not as good as shades of doom or gtc as an experimental game it was quite interesting. Unfortunately its never been updated so some bugs still remain. the blind eye is a prime example on what is not a good thing to do with an accessible game. Its never been fixeither. shades of doom was one of the first fps games out there. it has most of what could be benificial for the blind to play. gtc is also a good game. Entombed is a good rpg style at least it should work in that sort of way. soundrts and time of conflict could lend some help to. finally final conflict has simple menus and key commands. though old its still good for what it is. At 12:14 a.m. 28/06/2010, you wrote: Hi list. I have a few questions regarding the realistic possibilities of incorporating accessibility within a graphical game...and I'm hoping some list members would be able to offer their advice. I have a sighted programmer friend who has taken an interest in how I would go about playing a game...and we got onto the subject of how accessibility could be built into a visual game. Anyway, if anyone could answer some basic questions below, I'd really appreciate it, as this would firstly clear up "non possible" avenues and secondly, give us the possible avenues to play with. At this point, can I just say, if it is possible to do this, a very simple graphical game would be on the table for an experiment, probably self voicing and web-based, but could be client based. 1. What is the best combination for accessibility within a visual environment. E.g, Java (graphics) and self-voicing? Flash (graphics) and self-voicing? Java (graphics) and a client TTS based program? etc... 2. Would 1 approach be more difficult than another? E.g, screenreader over self-voicing? 3. Are there any examples of such a graphical game which offer a good gaming experience to both the blind and sighted, which incorporate audio accessibility? Hopefully you understand what I'm asking. In a nutshell, the blind have no need for graphics and the sighted need graphics, so I'm guessing there hasn't been a great need to marry the two...but is it possible and what road would we go down to make it possible. Many thanks, have a great day, cheers Steve. Visit: www.crustysocks.com Contact me: Skype: steve-chase MSN: stevesa...@hotmail.com E-Mail: st...@crustysocks.com Tel: +44 (0) 77333 73714 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ G
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
well there are examples. 1. teraformas. this game had graphics and sound though probably not as good as shades of doom or gtc as an experimental game it was quite interesting. Unfortunately its never been updated so some bugs still remain. the blind eye is a prime example on what is not a good thing to do with an accessible game. Its never been fixeither. shades of doom was one of the first fps games out there. it has most of what could be benificial for the blind to play. gtc is also a good game. Entombed is a good rpg style at least it should work in that sort of way. soundrts and time of conflict could lend some help to. finally final conflict has simple menus and key commands. though old its still good for what it is. At 12:14 a.m. 28/06/2010, you wrote: Hi list. I have a few questions regarding the realistic possibilities of incorporating accessibility within a graphical game...and I'm hoping some list members would be able to offer their advice. I have a sighted programmer friend who has taken an interest in how I would go about playing a game...and we got onto the subject of how accessibility could be built into a visual game. Anyway, if anyone could answer some basic questions below, I'd really appreciate it, as this would firstly clear up "non possible" avenues and secondly, give us the possible avenues to play with. At this point, can I just say, if it is possible to do this, a very simple graphical game would be on the table for an experiment, probably self voicing and web-based, but could be client based. 1. What is the best combination for accessibility within a visual environment. E.g, Java (graphics) and self-voicing? Flash (graphics) and self-voicing? Java (graphics) and a client TTS based program? etc... 2. Would 1 approach be more difficult than another? E.g, screenreader over self-voicing? 3. Are there any examples of such a graphical game which offer a good gaming experience to both the blind and sighted, which incorporate audio accessibility? Hopefully you understand what I'm asking. In a nutshell, the blind have no need for graphics and the sighted need graphics, so I'm guessing there hasn't been a great need to marry the two...but is it possible and what road would we go down to make it possible. Many thanks, have a great day, cheers Steve. Visit: www.crustysocks.com Contact me: Skype: steve-chase MSN: stevesa...@hotmail.com E-Mail: st...@crustysocks.com Tel: +44 (0) 77333 73714 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi, As you say a lot depends on exactly the type of game that is going to be created. However, making a game web based actually would make matters worse not better as it is harder to incorperate accessibility features into the program. Here is a simple example of what I mean. With a language like Java you can create web applets, an applet type game, and incorperate it into a web page. That's fine as far as it goes but the problem here is that the Java applet package only offers extremely simple audio output like load, play, and stop sounds. Hardly what we would want if we need to create an audio environment where we needs sounds panned left or right, change the volume based on distance, etc. In that case creating the program as a web applet becomes an accessibility hazard instead of a help. The only solution is to create it as a stand alone game and use a more advanced audio API like the javax sound package which has the ability to pan sounds, change volume, and a bunch of other more advanced sound goodies. Make sense? On 6/27/10, Hayden Presley wrote: > Hi Steve, > The only one I could put forward an answer for is screen readers. It would, > depending on what you make, probably be more difficult. However, if this is > web based, then that's probably the easier avenue of voicing. > > Best Regards, > Hayden > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Steve, Well, as I am both a game player and a software developer I'd say I am definitely in a position to help you and your friend here. If you have any questions you would like to ask me specifically I'm certain I may be a big help. Anyway, here are the questions and answers to the questions you asked. Question: 1. What is the best combination for accessibility within a visual environment. E.g, Java (graphics) and self-voicing? Flash (graphics) and self-voicing? Java (graphics) and a client TTS based program? etc... Answer: All of these questions are asking about specific programming languages such as Java and Flash. Either one could work for a game if the developer knows how to add accessibility to the program. However, I will say that Java can be problematic as not all screen readers support swing, and there for if the developer uses Java there should definitely be some way to self-voice the game that way the screen reader is not an issue for the gamer. Fortunately, you can use prerecorded speech files that get played back as needed as I do with my games, or the Java developer could use something like FreTTS for speech output. It isn't the best quality speech system, but it does work. Question: 2. Would 1 approach be more difficult than another? E.g, screenreader over self-voicing? Answer: Not really. However, as a developer and a gamer I prefer the program self-voice itself rather than depending on a screen reader. The reason I say this even though some screen readers like Jaws and Window-Eyes can directly be supported through their individual APIs not all screen readers have this ability and there for your screen reader support would be limited to whatever screen reader/screen readers you decided to support. If you use a language like Java accessibility is dependant on if the screen reader supports the Java access bridge. Jaws and NVDA do, but Window-Eyes does not. Therefore once again your accessibility is very hit and miss using a screen reader. The only way to make sure everyone can play it is to make the game itself provide the speech output via tts engine or by using prerecorded speech as needed. Question: 3. Are there any examples of such a graphical game which offer a good gaming experience to both the blind and sighted, which incorporate audio accessibility? Answer: A few. However, this is something that has largely not been done since most accessible game developers don't care about graphics thus don't include them. One game I know of that has graphics and is accessible is Teraformers. That's one of the only examples I can think of in terms of an action game that does this. There are other games such as those created by 7128.com that have graphics and speech output, but those are mostly turn based games where you answer questions such as in the Inspector Cindy games, or word puzzles. Not exactly what you are looking for here as they are rather simple examples of how accessibility can be applied to a graphical game. there are also the All In Play card games that are accessible to blind and sighted alike, but once again it is a rather simple example of a graphics based game being made accessible to the blind. I'm not sure you can find anything complex where graphics and accessibility were designed into the same game. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi Steve, The only one I could put forward an answer for is screen readers. It would, depending on what you make, probably be more difficult. However, if this is web based, then that's probably the easier avenue of voicing. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Steve S Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 7:14 AM To: Gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game? Hi list. I have a few questions regarding the realistic possibilities of incorporating accessibility within a graphical game...and I'm hoping some list members would be able to offer their advice. I have a sighted programmer friend who has taken an interest in how I would go about playing a game...and we got onto the subject of how accessibility could be built into a visual game. Anyway, if anyone could answer some basic questions below, I'd really appreciate it, as this would firstly clear up "non possible" avenues and secondly, give us the possible avenues to play with. At this point, can I just say, if it is possible to do this, a very simple graphical game would be on the table for an experiment, probably self voicing and web-based, but could be client based. 1. What is the best combination for accessibility within a visual environment. E.g, Java (graphics) and self-voicing? Flash (graphics) and self-voicing? Java (graphics) and a client TTS based program? etc... 2. Would 1 approach be more difficult than another? E.g, screenreader over self-voicing? 3. Are there any examples of such a graphical game which offer a good gaming experience to both the blind and sighted, which incorporate audio accessibility? Hopefully you understand what I'm asking. In a nutshell, the blind have no need for graphics and the sighted need graphics, so I'm guessing there hasn't been a great need to marry the two...but is it possible and what road would we go down to make it possible. Many thanks, have a great day, cheers Steve. Visit: www.crustysocks.com Contact me: Skype: steve-chase MSN: stevesa...@hotmail.com E-Mail: st...@crustysocks.com Tel: +44 (0) 77333 73714 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Advice on implamenting accessibility into a visual/graphical game?
Hi list. I have a few questions regarding the realistic possibilities of incorporating accessibility within a graphical game...and I'm hoping some list members would be able to offer their advice. I have a sighted programmer friend who has taken an interest in how I would go about playing a game...and we got onto the subject of how accessibility could be built into a visual game. Anyway, if anyone could answer some basic questions below, I'd really appreciate it, as this would firstly clear up "non possible" avenues and secondly, give us the possible avenues to play with. At this point, can I just say, if it is possible to do this, a very simple graphical game would be on the table for an experiment, probably self voicing and web-based, but could be client based. 1. What is the best combination for accessibility within a visual environment. E.g, Java (graphics) and self-voicing? Flash (graphics) and self-voicing? Java (graphics) and a client TTS based program? etc... 2. Would 1 approach be more difficult than another? E.g, screenreader over self-voicing? 3. Are there any examples of such a graphical game which offer a good gaming experience to both the blind and sighted, which incorporate audio accessibility? Hopefully you understand what I'm asking. In a nutshell, the blind have no need for graphics and the sighted need graphics, so I'm guessing there hasn't been a great need to marry the two...but is it possible and what road would we go down to make it possible. Many thanks, have a great day, cheers Steve. Visit: www.crustysocks.com Contact me: Skype: steve-chase MSN: stevesa...@hotmail.com E-Mail: st...@crustysocks.com Tel: +44 (0) 77333 73714 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
