Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

It really does not matter as I got what I wanted: leathercraft no
longer character binds. Druids can now carve on it, and potentially,
create more powerful pieces to sell/use. The player economy on Alter
Aeon is the worst I have ever seen in the nearly thirty years of
gaming I have done. There are a number of factors, some functional,
others structural, but this will help - just a little.

On 1/11/17, Paul Weston <paulweston...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have to disagree with your interpretation of the skill.
>
> Leatherworking is very low level (8) and has been provided to give everyone
> a chance to improve their own equipment very slightly. It is the same as the
> tailoring skill, also a low level skill and also for improving personal
> items.
>
> It is not meant as a replacement for higher level druid carving but instead
> as an opportunity for all classes and levels to get a small amount of
> benefit for their eq.
>
> I think this shows actually a great deal of knowledge into how to balance
> the game.
>
> It is unreasonable to expect that a skill that is available to all classes
> level 8 and above is going to allow you to improve equipment to a standard
> that would be profitable to sell or make your character super extra
> powerful.
>
> Paul
>
> Asclepius / Meccano
> -Original Message-
> From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
> Sent: 11 January 2017 15:55
> To: Gamers Discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>
> I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development and
> balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no clue what
> they are doing.
>
> For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create items
> and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other players.
> There is only one serious difficulty: the items in question bind to your
> character. If you check the help file (and I just did to verify this) there
> is no indication that when you use leatherworking that the item will bind to
> that character. Had I known this from the start, I would not have wasted the
> pracs on the skinning and leatherworking skills.
>
> Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it ought
> is faulty logic.
>
> On 1/11/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>> Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the
>> same in
>>
>> terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are
>> different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door
>> that can
>>
>> be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are
>> certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> DArk.
>>
>>
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>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the
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>>
>
>
> --
> Justin M. Jones, M.A.
> atreides...@gmail.com
> (254) 624-9155
> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802
>
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(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft.

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Paul Weston]

I have to disagree with your interpretation of the skill.

Leatherworking is very low level (8) and has been provided to give everyone a 
chance to improve their own equipment very slightly. It is the same as the 
tailoring skill, also a low level skill and also for improving personal items.

It is not meant as a replacement for higher level druid carving but instead as 
an opportunity for all classes and levels to get a small amount of benefit for 
their eq.

I think this shows actually a great deal of knowledge into how to balance the 
game. 

It is unreasonable to expect that a skill that is available to all classes 
level 8 and above is going to allow you to improve equipment to a standard that 
would be profitable to sell or make your character super extra powerful.

Paul

Asclepius / Meccano
-Original Message-
From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Justin Jones
Sent: 11 January 2017 15:55
To: Gamers Discussion list
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development and 
balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no clue what they 
are doing.

For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create items and 
carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other players. There is 
only one serious difficulty: the items in question bind to your character. If 
you check the help file (and I just did to verify this) there is no indication 
that when you use leatherworking that the item will bind to that character. Had 
I known this from the start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning 
and leatherworking skills.

Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it ought is 
faulty logic.

On 1/11/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
> Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the 
> same in
>
> terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are 
> different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door 
> that can
>
> be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are 
> certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
>
> All the best,
>
> DArk.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the 
> list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at 
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the 
> list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>


--
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atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Travis Siegel]

You can play a mud on any (and I mean any) operating system, including 
dos, linux, windows, android, and even ones on mainframes like aix, vms, 
sunos, and so on.  Your operating system does not matter when it comes to 
muds.  The only thing that makes a difference is the client you use.  Some 
are better than others (especially when it comes to support for msp (mud 
sound protocol) which is what alter aeon supports).  Some of the windows 
clients (maybe both of the ones listed below, I've not checked) include 
their own sounds, but if you have an MSP capable client, you'll get 
wonderful sounds for the mud.  I like the mud a lot better with the 
sounds, it's like an entirely different game with all the audio emersion. 
Very cool



On Thu, 12 Jan 2017, Devin Prater wrote:

Well, this game is an online one, so you need something, called a client, to 
connect to it. In this case, you need a MUD client to connect to Alteraeon. 
There are two main contenders for this space, Mush-Z and VIP MUD. MUSH-Z is a 
little less newbie friendly, but has way better sounds. VIP MUD might be 
better for total newbs about the art of mudding, that is, playing these 
particular online games, but VIP MUD has less sounds, whereas Mush-z has 
almost sinimatic sounds. Also, they both work on Windows XP or better.


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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Travis Siegel]

Well, considering the entire mud is a custom code base built from scratch, 
I have to strongly disagree with your not having faith in the admins and 
dentin specifically, since he's the one that did the coding. Hardly 
consistent with your statement that they don't know what they're doing.
As was said, 
if you don't like the game, don't play the game.  Simple as that.  If you 
like it, then by all means, play it.  If you disagree with some things, 
then feel free to suggest things in game (that's what the idea, typo, bug, 
and other commands are for after all).



On Wed, 11 Jan 2017, Keith S wrote:


then stop playing alteraeon if you don't have faith in the admins and builders
 - Original Message -
 From: Justin Jones
 To: Gamers Discussion list
 Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:54 AM
 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


 I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-?-vis development
 and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no
 clue what they are doing.

 > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
 >


 --
 Justin M. Jones, M.A.
 atreides...@gmail.com
 (254) 624-9155
 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Travis Siegel]

I know, there's at least 1 place where pick lock doesn't work, but knock 
does, so it's not entirely just a clone of pick lock.


On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:


Hi.

I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran across a 
door that was locked.
I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18 dex 
couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking since as a 
druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however it seems 
that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which makes it a 
bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex, indeed I got 
killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that and I didn't have a 
livoak at the time).

I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more effective 
as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to use. Indeed what 
might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply replicating the lock 
picking skill with a spell opened the door in a different way, for example with 
the first casting having the mage concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the 
lock one by one before turning them, meaning knock would always work, but at an 
increased mana cost.

Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton key 
out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the mage 
version, but require teeth.

I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for example the 
spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be really useful if 
in this case the spell did a little more than just replicate  lock pick and so 
could be a bit more useful to none thieves.



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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[dark]

Hi Devin.

I'd actually always recommend mushZ for alteraeon, even though I'm generally 
in favour of Vipmud for other muds.
Setting it upis no problem, there is no need to connect or mess around with 
ports, even the speech runs pretty instantaniously with most readers


I do know getting mushZ to work with other muds besides alteraeon isn't 
easy, but as it's designed for alteraeon I was myself surprised how quickly 
and easily it worked,.


All the best,

DArk. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[dark]

Hi Danielle.

Certainly it does.
Alteraeon is a mud, meaning it's a text based real time online game. 
However, there is an extensive client program which gives the game sounds, 
shortcut keys and more.


For more about the game please see
http://audiogames.net/db.php?id=Alter+Aeon

hth.

All the best,

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: "Danielle Ledet" <singingmywa...@gmail.com>

To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell



Does this game work in all Windows versions?

On 1/12/17, Justin Jones <atreides...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's a fair answer, so far as it goes and I appreciate its honesty,
but that does not change my overall opinion of how you address issues
within Alter Aeon, Dentin.

On 1/12/17, Dennis Towne <s...@xirr.com> wrote:

(Note - replying only to the original post by Dark.  The rest of the
thread is a tarpit I'd rather not be mired in.)

Locks are an obnoxious mechanic that we as builders haven't been happy
with for a long time.  The core issue is that locks are too binary;
you can either unlock them fairly easily, or you'll just plain be
stuck.  For the most part we've been dealing with it by adding keys
and making things easy to pick, but that's a cheesy hack at best.

We've had a couple of proposals for changing locks over the years,
we're just not sure if those proposals would actually fix the
problems.  It also just hasn't been very high priority; there are
plenty of issues and problems we do know how to easily fix that we
could work on instead. That's not a great answer, but that's why this
is still in a state where we're not happy with it.

Ultimately, we want a setup where lock difficulty is more consistently
set for the area level, and players are guaranteed to succeed in
opening a lock even if they're completely skill less and don't have
the key.  The skills should be able to reduce the time necessary to
open a lock. Figuring out all the details for this sort of thing is
tedious and irritating.  We'll figure something out eventually, but it
probably won't be until well past the anniversary event.

-dentin

Alter Aeon MUD
http://www.alteraeon.com

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 3:26 AM, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:

Hi.

I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
across a door that was locked.
I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and
18
dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a 
mana

cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't
have
high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody
door
(that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).

I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana 
to

use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before 
turning

them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.

Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
skeleton
key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than
the
mage version, but require teeth.

I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd
be
really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.

All the best,

Dark.
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atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Gamers mailin

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Devin Prater]

Well, this game is an online one, so you need something, called a client, 
to connect to it. In this case, you need a MUD client to connect to 
Alteraeon. There are two main contenders for this space, Mush-Z and VIP 
MUD. MUSH-Z is a little less newbie friendly, but has way better sounds. 
VIP MUD might be better for total newbs about the art of mudding, that is, 
playing these particular online games, but VIP MUD has less sounds, whereas 
Mush-z has almost sinimatic sounds. Also, they both work on Windows XP or 
better.


Sent with AquaMail for Android
http://www.aqua-mail.com


On January 12, 2017 5:07:33 PM Danielle Ledet  wrote:


Does this game work in all Windows versions?

On 1/12/17, Justin Jones  wrote:

That's a fair answer, so far as it goes and I appreciate its honesty,
but that does not change my overall opinion of how you address issues
within Alter Aeon, Dentin.

On 1/12/17, Dennis Towne  wrote:

(Note - replying only to the original post by Dark.  The rest of the
thread is a tarpit I'd rather not be mired in.)

Locks are an obnoxious mechanic that we as builders haven't been happy
with for a long time.  The core issue is that locks are too binary;
you can either unlock them fairly easily, or you'll just plain be
stuck.  For the most part we've been dealing with it by adding keys
and making things easy to pick, but that's a cheesy hack at best.

We've had a couple of proposals for changing locks over the years,
we're just not sure if those proposals would actually fix the
problems.  It also just hasn't been very high priority; there are
plenty of issues and problems we do know how to easily fix that we
could work on instead. That's not a great answer, but that's why this
is still in a state where we're not happy with it.

Ultimately, we want a setup where lock difficulty is more consistently
set for the area level, and players are guaranteed to succeed in
opening a lock even if they're completely skill less and don't have
the key.  The skills should be able to reduce the time necessary to
open a lock. Figuring out all the details for this sort of thing is
tedious and irritating.  We'll figure something out eventually, but it
probably won't be until well past the anniversary event.

-dentin

Alter Aeon MUD
http://www.alteraeon.com

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 3:26 AM, dark  wrote:

Hi.

I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
across a door that was locked.
I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and
18
dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana
cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't
have
high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody
door
(that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).

I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.

Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
skeleton
key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than
the
mage version, but require teeth.

I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd
be
really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.

All the best,

Dark.
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atreides...@gmail.com

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Danielle Ledet]

Does this game work in all Windows versions?

On 1/12/17, Justin Jones  wrote:
> That's a fair answer, so far as it goes and I appreciate its honesty,
> but that does not change my overall opinion of how you address issues
> within Alter Aeon, Dentin.
>
> On 1/12/17, Dennis Towne  wrote:
>> (Note - replying only to the original post by Dark.  The rest of the
>> thread is a tarpit I'd rather not be mired in.)
>>
>> Locks are an obnoxious mechanic that we as builders haven't been happy
>> with for a long time.  The core issue is that locks are too binary;
>> you can either unlock them fairly easily, or you'll just plain be
>> stuck.  For the most part we've been dealing with it by adding keys
>> and making things easy to pick, but that's a cheesy hack at best.
>>
>> We've had a couple of proposals for changing locks over the years,
>> we're just not sure if those proposals would actually fix the
>> problems.  It also just hasn't been very high priority; there are
>> plenty of issues and problems we do know how to easily fix that we
>> could work on instead. That's not a great answer, but that's why this
>> is still in a state where we're not happy with it.
>>
>> Ultimately, we want a setup where lock difficulty is more consistently
>> set for the area level, and players are guaranteed to succeed in
>> opening a lock even if they're completely skill less and don't have
>> the key.  The skills should be able to reduce the time necessary to
>> open a lock. Figuring out all the details for this sort of thing is
>> tedious and irritating.  We'll figure something out eventually, but it
>> probably won't be until well past the anniversary event.
>>
>> -dentin
>>
>> Alter Aeon MUD
>> http://www.alteraeon.com
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 3:26 AM, dark  wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
>>> across a door that was locked.
>>> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and
>>> 18
>>> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
>>> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
>>> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana
>>> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't
>>> have
>>> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody
>>> door
>>> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
>>>
>>> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
>>> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
>>> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
>>> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
>>> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
>>> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
>>> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
>>>
>>> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
>>> skeleton
>>> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than
>>> the
>>> mage version, but require teeth.
>>>
>>> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
>>> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd
>>> be
>>> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
>>> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Dark.
>>> ---
>>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
>>> list,
>>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>>
>> ---
>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
>> list,
>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>>
>
>
> --
> Justin M. Jones, M.A.
> atreides...@gmail.com
> (254) 624-9155
> 701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802
>
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> All messages are 

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

That's a fair answer, so far as it goes and I appreciate its honesty,
but that does not change my overall opinion of how you address issues
within Alter Aeon, Dentin.

On 1/12/17, Dennis Towne  wrote:
> (Note - replying only to the original post by Dark.  The rest of the
> thread is a tarpit I'd rather not be mired in.)
>
> Locks are an obnoxious mechanic that we as builders haven't been happy
> with for a long time.  The core issue is that locks are too binary;
> you can either unlock them fairly easily, or you'll just plain be
> stuck.  For the most part we've been dealing with it by adding keys
> and making things easy to pick, but that's a cheesy hack at best.
>
> We've had a couple of proposals for changing locks over the years,
> we're just not sure if those proposals would actually fix the
> problems.  It also just hasn't been very high priority; there are
> plenty of issues and problems we do know how to easily fix that we
> could work on instead. That's not a great answer, but that's why this
> is still in a state where we're not happy with it.
>
> Ultimately, we want a setup where lock difficulty is more consistently
> set for the area level, and players are guaranteed to succeed in
> opening a lock even if they're completely skill less and don't have
> the key.  The skills should be able to reduce the time necessary to
> open a lock. Figuring out all the details for this sort of thing is
> tedious and irritating.  We'll figure something out eventually, but it
> probably won't be until well past the anniversary event.
>
> -dentin
>
> Alter Aeon MUD
> http://www.alteraeon.com
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 3:26 AM, dark  wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
>> across a door that was locked.
>> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18
>> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
>> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
>> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana
>> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have
>> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door
>> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
>>
>> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
>> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
>> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
>> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
>> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
>> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
>> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
>>
>> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton
>> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the
>> mage version, but require teeth.
>>
>> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
>> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be
>> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
>> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Dark.
>> ---
>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
>> list,
>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>
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-- 
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Dennis Towne]

(Note - replying only to the original post by Dark.  The rest of the
thread is a tarpit I'd rather not be mired in.)

Locks are an obnoxious mechanic that we as builders haven't been happy
with for a long time.  The core issue is that locks are too binary;
you can either unlock them fairly easily, or you'll just plain be
stuck.  For the most part we've been dealing with it by adding keys
and making things easy to pick, but that's a cheesy hack at best.

We've had a couple of proposals for changing locks over the years,
we're just not sure if those proposals would actually fix the
problems.  It also just hasn't been very high priority; there are
plenty of issues and problems we do know how to easily fix that we
could work on instead. That's not a great answer, but that's why this
is still in a state where we're not happy with it.

Ultimately, we want a setup where lock difficulty is more consistently
set for the area level, and players are guaranteed to succeed in
opening a lock even if they're completely skill less and don't have
the key.  The skills should be able to reduce the time necessary to
open a lock. Figuring out all the details for this sort of thing is
tedious and irritating.  We'll figure something out eventually, but it
probably won't be until well past the anniversary event.

-dentin

Alter Aeon MUD
http://www.alteraeon.com

On Tue, Jan 10, 2017 at 3:26 AM, dark  wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran across a 
> door that was locked.
> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18 dex 
> couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking since as a 
> druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however it seems 
> that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which makes it 
> a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex, indeed I got 
> killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that and I didn't have a 
> livoak at the time).
>
> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more 
> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to use. 
> Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply replicating 
> the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a different way, for 
> example with the first casting having the mage concentrate and grasp the 
> tumblers in the lock one by one before turning them, meaning knock would 
> always work, but at an increased mana cost.
>
> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton 
> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the 
> mage version, but require teeth.
>
> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for example 
> the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be really 
> useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just replicate  lock 
> pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dark.
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.

---
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

Oh, I see how this goes: I should just keep my mouth shut and be
greatful for having an accessible MMORPG? This is what I am getting
out of that last post. Well, whatever; do/believe as you like; I'm
done here.

On 1/12/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> but you are not a builder or admin on the game, so if you are going to sit
> back and criticize the game admins, then you might as well ring your hands
> and play the game as is.  sure, opinions are nice and all, but come on.
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Justin Jones
>   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 4:54 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>
>
>   You know, you really oughtn't to make assumptions as to what I have,
>   or have not, done. Based on that last post, you are operating under
>   the assumption that I have not made any attempt at communicating Alter
>   Aeon's issues to Dentin. Guess what, I have, on numerous occasions. Do
>   you know what happened? Do you know what I was told? To put it
>   politely, I was told where to get off, and in most instances, in very
>   direct language. That was if they were feeling polite, in many other
>   instances, I was called a troll and much worse. So I think you need to
>   get off your high horse and stop making assumptions.
>
>   As for my years of experience as a gamer, it is what makes me right. I
>   have seen multiple game systems and see what works (and sometimes,
>   what does not). There is a reason things are done a certain way and
>   not simply because it has always been done in that manner.
>
>   As an aside, I had a look at the latest edition of the Dungeons and
>   Dragons rules and at the Knock spell. Guess what? it works as it has
>   ever done.
>
>   On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   > then type the word idea and then make the statement regarding the knock
>   > spell.
>   >
>   > As for you having so much experience as a gamer, perhaps you could
> become a
>   > builder and make changes to the game yourself.  I played toril and
>   > cyberassault and they both had their issues and I didn't put my nose in
> the
>   > air and tout my 29 years of gaming experience in the pen and paper RPG
>   > world.
>   >
>   > Keith
>   >   - Original Message -
>   >   From: Justin Jones
>   >   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   >   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:13 AM
>   >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>   >
>   >
>   >   Or maybe you ought to stop defending poor design and balance choices,
>   >   especially because you know it is precisely that.
>   >
>   >   In the meantime, I have no intention of quitting Alter Aeon. I look on
>   >   my role as an educator, a person who, with my over thirty-years of
>   >   gaming experience, can point out the flaws in the game. Not because I
>   >   wish to troll or grief, but because I am hoping that if enough of us
>   >   are heard, that Dentin and the rest will stop listening to the tiny
>   >   clique of sicophants they surround themselves with and actually turn a
>   >   good game (Alter Aeon's current state) into a great game.
>   >
>   >   On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   >   > then stop playing alteraeon if you don't have faith in the admins
> and
>   >   > builders
>   >   >   - Original Message -
>   >   >   From: Justin Jones
>   >   >   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   >   >   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:54 AM
>   >   >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >   I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis
> development
>   >   >   and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have
> no
>   >   >   clue what they are doing.
>   >   >
>   >   >   For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept;
> create
>   >   >   items and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to
> other
>   >   >   players. There is only one serious difficulty: the items in
> question
>   >   >   bind to your character. If you check the help file (and I just did
> to
>   >   >   verify this) there is no indication that when you use
> leatherworking
>   >   >   that the item will bind to that character. Had I known this from
> the
>   >   >   start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning and
>   >   >   leatherworking skills.
>   >   >
>   >   >   Also, arguing that no one would take pick lock

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

but you are not a builder or admin on the game, so if you are going to sit back 
and criticize the game admins, then you might as well ring your hands and play 
the game as is.  sure, opinions are nice and all, but come on.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Justin Jones 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 4:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  You know, you really oughtn't to make assumptions as to what I have,
  or have not, done. Based on that last post, you are operating under
  the assumption that I have not made any attempt at communicating Alter
  Aeon's issues to Dentin. Guess what, I have, on numerous occasions. Do
  you know what happened? Do you know what I was told? To put it
  politely, I was told where to get off, and in most instances, in very
  direct language. That was if they were feeling polite, in many other
  instances, I was called a troll and much worse. So I think you need to
  get off your high horse and stop making assumptions.

  As for my years of experience as a gamer, it is what makes me right. I
  have seen multiple game systems and see what works (and sometimes,
  what does not). There is a reason things are done a certain way and
  not simply because it has always been done in that manner.

  As an aside, I had a look at the latest edition of the Dungeons and
  Dragons rules and at the Knock spell. Guess what? it works as it has
  ever done.

  On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > then type the word idea and then make the statement regarding the knock
  > spell.
  >
  > As for you having so much experience as a gamer, perhaps you could become a
  > builder and make changes to the game yourself.  I played toril and
  > cyberassault and they both had their issues and I didn't put my nose in the
  > air and tout my 29 years of gaming experience in the pen and paper RPG
  > world.
  >
  > Keith
  >   - Original Message -
  >   From: Justin Jones
  >   To: Gamers Discussion list
  >   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:13 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >
  >
  >   Or maybe you ought to stop defending poor design and balance choices,
  >   especially because you know it is precisely that.
  >
  >   In the meantime, I have no intention of quitting Alter Aeon. I look on
  >   my role as an educator, a person who, with my over thirty-years of
  >   gaming experience, can point out the flaws in the game. Not because I
  >   wish to troll or grief, but because I am hoping that if enough of us
  >   are heard, that Dentin and the rest will stop listening to the tiny
  >   clique of sicophants they surround themselves with and actually turn a
  >   good game (Alter Aeon's current state) into a great game.
  >
  >   On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
  >   > then stop playing alteraeon if you don't have faith in the admins and
  >   > builders
  >   >   - Original Message -
  >   >   From: Justin Jones
  >   >   To: Gamers Discussion list
  >   >   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:54 AM
  >   >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >   I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development
  >   >   and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no
  >   >   clue what they are doing.
  >   >
  >   >   For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create
  >   >   items and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other
  >   >   players. There is only one serious difficulty: the items in question
  >   >   bind to your character. If you check the help file (and I just did to
  >   >   verify this) there is no indication that when you use leatherworking
  >   >   that the item will bind to that character. Had I known this from the
  >   >   start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning and
  >   >   leatherworking skills.
  >   >
  >   >   Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it
  >   >   ought is faulty logic.
  >   >
  >   >   On 1/11/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
  >   >   > Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the
  > same
  >   > in
  >   >   >
  >   >   > terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are
  >   >   > different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door
  > that
  >   > can
  >   >   >
  >   >   > be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are
  >   >   > certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
  >   >   >
  >   >   > All the

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Shaun Everiss]

You know it seems to me that we could iliminate all this stuff if we had 
certain doors needing knock and others for lock picking.
I'd probably also have some sort of skill to make keys for doors, ie 
craft stuff you would have to get materials to craft though.



On 12/01/2017 3:38 a.m., dark wrote:

Hi.

if Knock was too useful you'd have the oposite problem where nobody used
pick locks.
if there are two ways to do the same thing they need to have some
vaguely equal balance rather than one being far better than another as
is currently the case with the knock spell.

All the best,

Dark.
- Original Message - From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdash...@panix.com>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell



Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:


Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
From: dark <d...@xgam.org>
Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org>
To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

Hi.

I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
across a door that was locked.
I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int
and 18 dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock
picking since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather
than dex, however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock
picking with a mana cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a
problem if you don't have high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran
out of mana on the bloody door (that and I didn't have a livoak at
the time).

I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana
to use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of
simply replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the
door in a different way, for example with the first casting having
the mage concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one
before turning them, meaning knock would always work, but at an
increased mana cost.

Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
skeleton key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on
mana than the mage version, but require teeth.

I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but
it'd be really useful if in this case the spell did a little more
than just replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to
none thieves.

All the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

You know, you really oughtn't to make assumptions as to what I have,
or have not, done. Based on that last post, you are operating under
the assumption that I have not made any attempt at communicating Alter
Aeon's issues to Dentin. Guess what, I have, on numerous occasions. Do
you know what happened? Do you know what I was told? To put it
politely, I was told where to get off, and in most instances, in very
direct language. That was if they were feeling polite, in many other
instances, I was called a troll and much worse. So I think you need to
get off your high horse and stop making assumptions.

As for my years of experience as a gamer, it is what makes me right. I
have seen multiple game systems and see what works (and sometimes,
what does not). There is a reason things are done a certain way and
not simply because it has always been done in that manner.

As an aside, I had a look at the latest edition of the Dungeons and
Dragons rules and at the Knock spell. Guess what? it works as it has
ever done.

On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> then type the word idea and then make the statement regarding the knock
> spell.
>
> As for you having so much experience as a gamer, perhaps you could become a
> builder and make changes to the game yourself.  I played toril and
> cyberassault and they both had their issues and I didn't put my nose in the
> air and tout my 29 years of gaming experience in the pen and paper RPG
> world.
>
> Keith
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Justin Jones
>   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:13 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>
>
>   Or maybe you ought to stop defending poor design and balance choices,
>   especially because you know it is precisely that.
>
>   In the meantime, I have no intention of quitting Alter Aeon. I look on
>   my role as an educator, a person who, with my over thirty-years of
>   gaming experience, can point out the flaws in the game. Not because I
>   wish to troll or grief, but because I am hoping that if enough of us
>   are heard, that Dentin and the rest will stop listening to the tiny
>   clique of sicophants they surround themselves with and actually turn a
>   good game (Alter Aeon's current state) into a great game.
>
>   On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   > then stop playing alteraeon if you don't have faith in the admins and
>   > builders
>   >   - Original Message -
>   >   From: Justin Jones
>   >   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   >   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:54 AM
>   >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>   >
>   >
>   >   I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development
>   >   and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no
>   >   clue what they are doing.
>   >
>   >   For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create
>   >   items and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other
>   >   players. There is only one serious difficulty: the items in question
>   >   bind to your character. If you check the help file (and I just did to
>   >   verify this) there is no indication that when you use leatherworking
>   >   that the item will bind to that character. Had I known this from the
>   >   start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning and
>   >   leatherworking skills.
>   >
>   >   Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it
>   >   ought is faulty logic.
>   >
>   >   On 1/11/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>   >   > Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the
> same
>   > in
>   >   >
>   >   > terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are
>   >   > different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door
> that
>   > can
>   >   >
>   >   > be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are
>   >   > certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
>   >   >
>   >   > All the best,
>   >   >
>   >   > DArk.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   > ---
>   >   > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>   >   > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>   >   > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>   >   > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>   >   > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>   >   > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>   >   > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

then type the word idea and then make the statement regarding the knock spell.

As for you having so much experience as a gamer, perhaps you could become a 
builder and make changes to the game yourself.  I played toril and cyberassault 
and they both had their issues and I didn't put my nose in the air and tout my 
29 years of gaming experience in the pen and paper RPG world.

Keith
  - Original Message - 
  From: Justin Jones 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 11:13 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  Or maybe you ought to stop defending poor design and balance choices,
  especially because you know it is precisely that.

  In the meantime, I have no intention of quitting Alter Aeon. I look on
  my role as an educator, a person who, with my over thirty-years of
  gaming experience, can point out the flaws in the game. Not because I
  wish to troll or grief, but because I am hoping that if enough of us
  are heard, that Dentin and the rest will stop listening to the tiny
  clique of sicophants they surround themselves with and actually turn a
  good game (Alter Aeon's current state) into a great game.

  On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > then stop playing alteraeon if you don't have faith in the admins and
  > builders
  >   - Original Message -
  >   From: Justin Jones
  >   To: Gamers Discussion list
  >   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:54 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >
  >
  >   I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development
  >   and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no
  >   clue what they are doing.
  >
  >   For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create
  >   items and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other
  >   players. There is only one serious difficulty: the items in question
  >   bind to your character. If you check the help file (and I just did to
  >   verify this) there is no indication that when you use leatherworking
  >   that the item will bind to that character. Had I known this from the
  >   start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning and
  >   leatherworking skills.
  >
  >   Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it
  >   ought is faulty logic.
  >
  >   On 1/11/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
  >   > Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the same
  > in
  >   >
  >   > terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are
  >   > different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door that
  > can
  >   >
  >   > be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are
  >   > certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
  >   >
  >   > All the best,
  >   >
  >   > DArk.
  >   >
  >   >
  >   > ---
  >   > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
  >   > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
  >   > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
  >   > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
  >   > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
  >   > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
  >   > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
  >   > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
  > list,
  >   > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
  >   >
  >
  >
  >   --
  >   Justin M. Jones, M.A.
  >   atreides...@gmail.com
  >   (254) 624-9155
  >   701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802
  >
  >   ---
  >   Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
  >   If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
  > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
  >   You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
  >   http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
  >   All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
  >   http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
  >   If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
  > list,
  >   please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
  > ---
  > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
  > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
  > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
  > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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  > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
  > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
  > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
  > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

Or maybe you ought to stop defending poor design and balance choices,
especially because you know it is precisely that.

In the meantime, I have no intention of quitting Alter Aeon. I look on
my role as an educator, a person who, with my over thirty-years of
gaming experience, can point out the flaws in the game. Not because I
wish to troll or grief, but because I am hoping that if enough of us
are heard, that Dentin and the rest will stop listening to the tiny
clique of sicophants they surround themselves with and actually turn a
good game (Alter Aeon's current state) into a great game.

On 1/11/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> then stop playing alteraeon if you don't have faith in the admins and
> builders
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Justin Jones
>   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:54 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>
>
>   I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development
>   and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no
>   clue what they are doing.
>
>   For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create
>   items and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other
>   players. There is only one serious difficulty: the items in question
>   bind to your character. If you check the help file (and I just did to
>   verify this) there is no indication that when you use leatherworking
>   that the item will bind to that character. Had I known this from the
>   start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning and
>   leatherworking skills.
>
>   Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it
>   ought is faulty logic.
>
>   On 1/11/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
>   > Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the same
> in
>   >
>   > terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are
>   > different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door that
> can
>   >
>   > be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are
>   > certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
>   >
>   > All the best,
>   >
>   > DArk.
>   >
>   >
>   > ---
>   > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>   > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>   > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>   > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>   > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>   > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>   > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>   > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
> list,
>   > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>   >
>
>
>   --
>   Justin M. Jones, M.A.
>   atreides...@gmail.com
>   (254) 624-9155
>   701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802
>
>   ---
>   Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>   If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>   You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>   http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>   All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>   http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>   If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
> list,
>   please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
> ---
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> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>


-- 
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

then stop playing alteraeon if you don't have faith in the admins and builders
  - Original Message - 
  From: Justin Jones 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2017 9:54 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development
  and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no
  clue what they are doing.

  For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create
  items and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other
  players. There is only one serious difficulty: the items in question
  bind to your character. If you check the help file (and I just did to
  verify this) there is no indication that when you use leatherworking
  that the item will bind to that character. Had I known this from the
  start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning and
  leatherworking skills.

  Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it
  ought is faulty logic.

  On 1/11/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:
  > Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the same in
  >
  > terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are
  > different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door that can
  >
  > be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are
  > certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
  >
  > All the best,
  >
  > DArk.
  >
  >
  > ---
  > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
  > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
  > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
  > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
  > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
  > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
  > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
  > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
  > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
  >


  -- 
  Justin M. Jones, M.A.
  atreides...@gmail.com
  (254) 624-9155
  701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

I do not have confidence in Dentin and the rest, vis-à-vis development
and balance. They have proven, time and time again that they have no
clue what they are doing.

For instance: the leatherworking skill. Great idea in concept; create
items and carve on them, perhaps for personal use or for sale to other
players. There is only one serious difficulty: the items in question
bind to your character. If you check the help file (and I just did to
verify this) there is no indication that when you use leatherworking
that the item will bind to that character. Had I known this from the
start, I would not have wasted the pracs on the skinning and
leatherworking skills.

Also, arguing that no one would take pick locks if Knock worked as it
ought is faulty logic.

On 1/11/17, dark  wrote:
> Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the same in
>
> terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are
> different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door that can
>
> be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are
> certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.
>
> All the best,
>
> DArk.
>
>
> ---
> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>


-- 
Justin M. Jones, M.A.
atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[dark]

Hi kieth.

Yes, the knock spell is an alternative to pick locks, but being as mana is 
far more useful than movement and harder to acquire, and that the picklock 
skill seems over all more efficient, it should really have a bit more to 
recommend it as a choice, eg as I said being slower but more reliable.


All the best,

Dark. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[dark]

Well from what I've seen thus far, knock and picklock are about the same in 
terms of the doors they can open, it's just the mechanics that are 
different, or to put it another way, I've never encountered a door that can 
be picked but can't be knock spelled or visa versa, though there are 
certainly doors that are imune to both and need a key.


All the best,

DArk. 



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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[dark]

Hi.

if Knock was too useful you'd have the oposite problem where nobody used 
pick locks.
if there are two ways to do the same thing they need to have some vaguely 
equal balance rather than one being far better than another as is currently 
the case with the knock spell.


All the best,

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: "Jude DaShiell" <jdash...@panix.com>

To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell



Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:


Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
From: dark <d...@xgam.org>
Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org>
To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

Hi.

I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran 
across a door that was locked.
I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18 
dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking 
since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, 
however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana 
cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't 
have high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the 
bloody door (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).


I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more 
effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to 
use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply 
replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a 
different way, for example with the first casting having the mage 
concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning 
them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.


Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal 
skeleton key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on 
mana than the mage version, but require teeth.


I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for 
example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be 
really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just 
replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.


All the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[dark]

Hi Justin.

Well we'll see, I am confident in Dentin and the rest of the builders 
balancing of the game.


All the best,

Dark.
- Original Message - 
From: "Justin Jones" <atreides...@gmail.com>

To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell



This has been one of my major complaints with the Knock spell: how
damn useless and mana-intensive it is.

Those are some really good ideas, actually, but I would be surprised
if Dentin and the rest actually bother with them. Then again, they are
trying to fix things, so maybe we ought to give them the benefit of
the doubt?

On 1/10/17, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote:

Hi.

I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran 
across

a door that was locked.
I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18
dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking 
since
as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however 
it

seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which
makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex,
indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that 
and I

didn't have a livoak at the time).

I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.

Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal 
skeleton
key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than 
the

mage version, but require teeth.

I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for 
example

the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be really
useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just replicate 
lock

pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.

All the best,

Dark.
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(254) 624-9155
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

yes, but on a philosophical point, the admins of alter aeon make the rules.  I 
have not had much issue with the knock spell on the chars with it.

Keith
  - Original Message - 
  From: Justin Jones 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 3:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  So you are aware that Knock, in Alter Aeon, does not work the way it
  is supposed to.

  On 1/10/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > online, 3...paper and pencil 5 or 6
  >
  > Keith
  >   - Original Message -
  >   From: Justin Jones
  >   To: Gamers Discussion list
  >   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:08 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >
  >
  >   Bash door would be okay, actually, but not as a skill. It ought to be
  >   something that anyone can do, it is strength-based and can only be
  >   done to certain doors.
  >
  >   Also, I am fine with doors that specifically require a key to open.
  >   Not every door ought to be pickable/knockable (it's a word now,
  >   so...), but the majority of them ought to be (and, from what I can
  >   tell, they are).
  >
  >   I don't mean to be condescending with this question, Kieth, but how
  >   many other role-playing games have you played?
  >
  >   On 1/10/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
  >   > at this rate, they might as well have a warrior skill like chop door or
  > bash
  >   > door.
  >   >
  >   > Keith
  >   >   - Original Message -
  >   >   From: Justin Jones
  >   >   To: Gamers Discussion list
  >   >   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:10 AM
  >   >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >   >
  >   >
  >   >   Pretty much this. Every other role-playing game I have ever played
  >   >   (and I have played a lot of them) has the knock spell a guaranteed
  >   >   success when used. I understand the need for balance, but there are
  >   >   far better ways to accomplish this than the current one in use.
  >   >
  >   >   The only way I would pick up Knock is if my primary was a Mage and I
  >   >   had a lot of Mage cast gear on. Even then, I am not certain if it is
  >   >   worth the pracs when I could simply take levels in Thief and the pick
  >   >   locks skill.
  >   >
  >   >   On 1/10/17, Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com> wrote:
  >   >   > Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?
  >   >   >
  >   >   > On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:
  >   >   >
  >   >   >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
  >   >   >> From: dark <d...@xgam.org>
  >   >   >> Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org>
  >   >   >> To: Gamers@audyssey.org
  >   >   >> Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >   >   >>
  >   >   >> Hi.
  >   >   >>
  >   >   >> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and
  > ran
  >   >   >> across a door that was locked.
  >   >   >> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int
  > and
  >   > 18
  >   >   >> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock
  > picking
  >   >   >> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than
  > dex,
  >   >   >> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with
  > a
  >   > mana
  >   >   >> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you
  > don't
  >   > have
  >   >   >> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the
  > bloody
  >   > door
  >   >   >> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
  >   >   >>
  >   >   >> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit
  > more
  >   >   >> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs
  > mana
  >   > to
  >   >   >> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of
  > simply
  >   >   >> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in
  > a
  >   >   >> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
  >   >   >> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before
  >   > turning
  >   >   >> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana
  > cost.
  >   >   >>
  >   >   >> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
  >   > skeleton
  >   >   >> key out of harveste

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

So you are aware that Knock, in Alter Aeon, does not work the way it
is supposed to.

On 1/10/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> online, 3...paper and pencil 5 or 6
>
> Keith
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Justin Jones
>   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:08 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>
>
>   Bash door would be okay, actually, but not as a skill. It ought to be
>   something that anyone can do, it is strength-based and can only be
>   done to certain doors.
>
>   Also, I am fine with doors that specifically require a key to open.
>   Not every door ought to be pickable/knockable (it's a word now,
>   so...), but the majority of them ought to be (and, from what I can
>   tell, they are).
>
>   I don't mean to be condescending with this question, Kieth, but how
>   many other role-playing games have you played?
>
>   On 1/10/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>   > at this rate, they might as well have a warrior skill like chop door or
> bash
>   > door.
>   >
>   > Keith
>   >   - Original Message -
>   >   From: Justin Jones
>   >   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   >   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:10 AM
>   >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>   >
>   >
>   >   Pretty much this. Every other role-playing game I have ever played
>   >   (and I have played a lot of them) has the knock spell a guaranteed
>   >   success when used. I understand the need for balance, but there are
>   >   far better ways to accomplish this than the current one in use.
>   >
>   >   The only way I would pick up Knock is if my primary was a Mage and I
>   >   had a lot of Mage cast gear on. Even then, I am not certain if it is
>   >   worth the pracs when I could simply take levels in Thief and the pick
>   >   locks skill.
>   >
>   >   On 1/10/17, Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com> wrote:
>   >   > Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?
>   >   >
>   >   > On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
>   >   >> From: dark <d...@xgam.org>
>   >   >> Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org>
>   >   >> To: Gamers@audyssey.org
>   >   >> Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>   >   >>
>   >   >> Hi.
>   >   >>
>   >   >> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and
> ran
>   >   >> across a door that was locked.
>   >   >> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int
> and
>   > 18
>   >   >> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock
> picking
>   >   >> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than
> dex,
>   >   >> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with
> a
>   > mana
>   >   >> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you
> don't
>   > have
>   >   >> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the
> bloody
>   > door
>   >   >> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
>   >   >>
>   >   >> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit
> more
>   >   >> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs
> mana
>   > to
>   >   >> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of
> simply
>   >   >> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in
> a
>   >   >> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
>   >   >> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before
>   > turning
>   >   >> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana
> cost.
>   >   >>
>   >   >> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
>   > skeleton
>   >   >> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana
> than
>   > the
>   >   >> mage version, but require teeth.
>   >   >>
>   >   >> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing,
> for
>   >   >> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but
> it'd
>   > be
>   >   >> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than
> just
>   >   >> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more us

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

online, 3...paper and pencil 5 or 6

Keith
  - Original Message - 
  From: Justin Jones 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 11:08 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  Bash door would be okay, actually, but not as a skill. It ought to be
  something that anyone can do, it is strength-based and can only be
  done to certain doors.

  Also, I am fine with doors that specifically require a key to open.
  Not every door ought to be pickable/knockable (it's a word now,
  so...), but the majority of them ought to be (and, from what I can
  tell, they are).

  I don't mean to be condescending with this question, Kieth, but how
  many other role-playing games have you played?

  On 1/10/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > at this rate, they might as well have a warrior skill like chop door or bash
  > door.
  >
  > Keith
  >   - Original Message -
  >   From: Justin Jones
  >   To: Gamers Discussion list
  >   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:10 AM
  >   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >
  >
  >   Pretty much this. Every other role-playing game I have ever played
  >   (and I have played a lot of them) has the knock spell a guaranteed
  >   success when used. I understand the need for balance, but there are
  >   far better ways to accomplish this than the current one in use.
  >
  >   The only way I would pick up Knock is if my primary was a Mage and I
  >   had a lot of Mage cast gear on. Even then, I am not certain if it is
  >   worth the pracs when I could simply take levels in Thief and the pick
  >   locks skill.
  >
  >   On 1/10/17, Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com> wrote:
  >   > Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?
  >   >
  >   > On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:
  >   >
  >   >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
  >   >> From: dark <d...@xgam.org>
  >   >> Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org>
  >   >> To: Gamers@audyssey.org
  >   >> Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >   >>
  >   >> Hi.
  >   >>
  >   >> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
  >   >> across a door that was locked.
  >   >> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and
  > 18
  >   >> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
  >   >> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
  >   >> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a
  > mana
  >   >> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't
  > have
  >   >> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody
  > door
  >   >> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
  >   >>
  >   >> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
  >   >> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana
  > to
  >   >> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
  >   >> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
  >   >> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
  >   >> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before
  > turning
  >   >> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
  >   >>
  >   >> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
  > skeleton
  >   >> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than
  > the
  >   >> mage version, but require teeth.
  >   >>
  >   >> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
  >   >> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd
  > be
  >   >> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
  >   >> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none
  > thieves.
  >   >>
  >   >> All the best,
  >   >>
  >   >> Dark.
  >   >> ---
  >   >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
  >   >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
  >   >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
  >   >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
  >   >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
  >   >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
  >   >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
  >   >> If you have any questions or concerns 

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

Bash door would be okay, actually, but not as a skill. It ought to be
something that anyone can do, it is strength-based and can only be
done to certain doors.

Also, I am fine with doors that specifically require a key to open.
Not every door ought to be pickable/knockable (it's a word now,
so...), but the majority of them ought to be (and, from what I can
tell, they are).

I don't mean to be condescending with this question, Kieth, but how
many other role-playing games have you played?

On 1/10/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> at this rate, they might as well have a warrior skill like chop door or bash
> door.
>
> Keith
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Justin Jones
>   To: Gamers Discussion list
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:10 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>
>
>   Pretty much this. Every other role-playing game I have ever played
>   (and I have played a lot of them) has the knock spell a guaranteed
>   success when used. I understand the need for balance, but there are
>   far better ways to accomplish this than the current one in use.
>
>   The only way I would pick up Knock is if my primary was a Mage and I
>   had a lot of Mage cast gear on. Even then, I am not certain if it is
>   worth the pracs when I could simply take levels in Thief and the pick
>   locks skill.
>
>   On 1/10/17, Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com> wrote:
>   > Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?
>   >
>   > On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:
>   >
>   >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
>   >> From: dark <d...@xgam.org>
>   >> Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org>
>   >> To: Gamers@audyssey.org
>   >> Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>   >>
>   >> Hi.
>   >>
>   >> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
>   >> across a door that was locked.
>   >> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and
> 18
>   >> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
>   >> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
>   >> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a
> mana
>   >> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't
> have
>   >> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody
> door
>   >> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
>   >>
>   >> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
>   >> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana
> to
>   >> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
>   >> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
>   >> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
>   >> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before
> turning
>   >> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
>   >>
>   >> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal
> skeleton
>   >> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than
> the
>   >> mage version, but require teeth.
>   >>
>   >> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
>   >> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd
> be
>   >> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
>   >> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none
> thieves.
>   >>
>   >> All the best,
>   >>
>   >> Dark.
>   >> ---
>   >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>   >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>   >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>   >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
>   >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org.
>   >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
>   >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org.
>   >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the
>   >> list,
>   >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
>   >>
>   >
>   > --
>   >
>   >
>   > ---
>   > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
>   > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
>   > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
>   > You can make changes or update your sub

Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

at this rate, they might as well have a warrior skill like chop door or bash 
door.

Keith
  - Original Message - 
  From: Justin Jones 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 10:10 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  Pretty much this. Every other role-playing game I have ever played
  (and I have played a lot of them) has the knock spell a guaranteed
  success when used. I understand the need for balance, but there are
  far better ways to accomplish this than the current one in use.

  The only way I would pick up Knock is if my primary was a Mage and I
  had a lot of Mage cast gear on. Even then, I am not certain if it is
  worth the pracs when I could simply take levels in Thief and the pick
  locks skill.

  On 1/10/17, Jude DaShiell <jdash...@panix.com> wrote:
  > Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?
  >
  > On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:
  >
  >> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
  >> From: dark <d...@xgam.org>
  >> Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org>
  >> To: Gamers@audyssey.org
  >> Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >>
  >> Hi.
  >>
  >> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
  >> across a door that was locked.
  >> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18
  >> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
  >> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
  >> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana
  >> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have
  >> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door
  >> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
  >>
  >> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
  >> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
  >> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
  >> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
  >> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
  >> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
  >> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
  >>
  >> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton
  >> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the
  >> mage version, but require teeth.
  >>
  >> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
  >> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be
  >> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
  >> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
  >>
  >> All the best,
  >>
  >> Dark.
  >> ---
  >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
  >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
  >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
  >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

and some locks can only be opened with the knock spell and others can only be 
picked.  some can't be opened without a key
Keith
  - Original Message - 
  From: Justin Jones 
  To: Gamers Discussion list 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 9:39 AM
  Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  It seems to me that picking a lock with the skill doesn't burn through
  your movement nearly as fast as the Knock spell will burn through your
  mana. Running out of movement is not great, and can be lethal, but
  running out of mana (especially in a place like the tunnels under Fort
  Magnesia) is asking to die.

  To put it differently: the knock spell is a broken mess and needs fixing.

  On 1/10/17, Keith S <ks.steinbac...@gmail.com> wrote:
  > the knock spell is an alternative to the pick lock skill, knock uses mana
  > and pick locks uses movement.
  >
  > keith
  >   - Original Message -
  >   From: dark
  >   To: Gamers@audyssey.org
  >   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:26 AM
  >   Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
  >
  >
  >   Hi.
  >
  >   I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
  > across a door that was locked.
  >   I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18
  > dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking since
  > as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however it
  > seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which
  > makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex,
  > indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that and I
  > didn't have a livoak at the time).
  >
  >   I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
  > effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
  > use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
  > replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
  > different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
  > concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
  > them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
  >
  >   Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton
  > key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the
  > mage version, but require teeth.
  >
  >   I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
  > example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be
  > really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
  > replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
  >
  >   All the best,
  >
  >   Dark.
  >   ---
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  > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

Pretty much this. Every other role-playing game I have ever played
(and I have played a lot of them) has the knock spell a guaranteed
success when used. I understand the need for balance, but there are
far better ways to accomplish this than the current one in use.

The only way I would pick up Knock is if my primary was a Mage and I
had a lot of Mage cast gear on. Even then, I am not certain if it is
worth the pracs when I could simply take levels in Thief and the pick
locks skill.

On 1/10/17, Jude DaShiell  wrote:
> Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?
>
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:
>
>> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
>> From: dark 
>> Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list 
>> To: Gamers@audyssey.org
>> Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
>> across a door that was locked.
>> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18
>> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking
>> since as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex,
>> however it seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana
>> cost, which makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have
>> high dex, indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door
>> (that and I didn't have a livoak at the time).
>>
>> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
>> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
>> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
>> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
>> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
>> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
>> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
>>
>> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton
>> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the
>> mage version, but require teeth.
>>
>> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
>> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be
>> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
>> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Dark.
>> ---
>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org
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>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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>>
>
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Jude DaShiell]

Why not just have knock blow the hinge pins out of the door?

On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, dark wrote:


Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2017 06:26:00
From: dark 
Reply-To: Gamers Discussion list 
To: Gamers@audyssey.org
Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

Hi.

I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran across a 
door that was locked.
I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18 dex 
couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking since as a 
druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however it seems 
that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which makes it a 
bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex, indeed I got 
killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that and I didn't have a 
livoak at the time).

I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more effective 
as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to use. Indeed what 
might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply replicating the lock 
picking skill with a spell opened the door in a different way, for example with 
the first casting having the mage concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the 
lock one by one before turning them, meaning knock would always work, but at an 
increased mana cost.

Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton key 
out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the mage 
version, but require teeth.

I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for example the 
spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be really useful if 
in this case the spell did a little more than just replicate  lock pick and so 
could be a bit more useful to none thieves.

All the best,

Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

It seems to me that picking a lock with the skill doesn't burn through
your movement nearly as fast as the Knock spell will burn through your
mana. Running out of movement is not great, and can be lethal, but
running out of mana (especially in a place like the tunnels under Fort
Magnesia) is asking to die.

To put it differently: the knock spell is a broken mess and needs fixing.

On 1/10/17, Keith S  wrote:
> the knock spell is an alternative to the pick lock skill, knock uses mana
> and pick locks uses movement.
>
> keith
>   - Original Message -
>   From: dark
>   To: Gamers@audyssey.org
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:26 AM
>   Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell
>
>
>   Hi.
>
>   I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran
> across a door that was locked.
>   I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18
> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking since
> as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however it
> seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which
> makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex,
> indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that and I
> didn't have a livoak at the time).
>
>   I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
>
>   Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton
> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the
> mage version, but require teeth.
>
>   I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for
> example the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be
> really useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just
> replicate  lock pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
>
>   All the best,
>
>   Dark.
>   ---
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> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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atreides...@gmail.com
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Keith S]

the knock spell is an alternative to the pick lock skill, knock uses mana and 
pick locks uses movement.

keith
  - Original Message - 
  From: dark 
  To: Gamers@audyssey.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 5:26 AM
  Subject: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell


  Hi. 

  I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran across a 
door that was locked. 
  I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18 dex 
couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking since as a 
druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however it seems 
that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which makes it a 
bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex, indeed I got 
killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that and I didn't have a 
livoak at the time).

  I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more 
effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to use. 
Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply replicating 
the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a different way, for 
example with the first casting having the mage concentrate and grasp the 
tumblers in the lock one by one before turning them, meaning knock would always 
work, but at an increased mana cost.

  Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton 
key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the mage 
version, but require teeth.

  I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for example 
the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be really useful 
if in this case the spell did a little more than just replicate  lock pick and 
so could be a bit more useful to none thieves. 

  All the best, 

  Dark.
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Re: [Audyssey] Alteraeon knock spell

[Justin Jones]

This has been one of my major complaints with the Knock spell: how
damn useless and mana-intensive it is.

Those are some really good ideas, actually, but I would be surprised
if Dentin and the rest actually bother with them. Then again, they are
trying to fix things, so maybe we ought to give them the benefit of
the doubt?

On 1/10/17, dark  wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I've been trying to do the drow city close to fort Magnitia, and ran across
> a door that was locked.
> I tried the knock spell a bunch of times, and despite havig 25 int and 18
> dex couldn't get through at all. I've neglected learning lock picking since
> as a druid mage I really should be using magic rather than dex, however it
> seems that KNock pretty much is just lock picking with a mana cost, which
> makes it a bit pointless, and also a problem if you don't have high dex,
> indeed I got killed because I ran out of mana on the bloody door (that and I
> didn't have a livoak at the time).
>
> I was therefore wondering if the knock spell could be made a bit more
> effective as an alternative tto lock picking given that it costs mana to
> use. Indeed what might be fun is if the knock spell, instead of simply
> replicating the lock picking skill with a spell opened the door in a
> different way, for example with the first casting having the mage
> concentrate and grasp the tumblers in the lock one by one before turning
> them, meaning knock would always work, but at an increased mana cost.
>
> Heck necromancers could have a versio where they create a literal skeleton
> key out of harvested bones, which could be more efficient on mana than the
> mage version, but require teeth.
>
> I know the game often has several ways of doing the same thing, for example
> the spells candle, crystal light and continual light, but it'd be really
> useful if in this case the spell did a little more than just replicate  lock
> pick and so could be a bit more useful to none thieves.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dark.
> ---
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> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org.
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atreides...@gmail.com
(254) 624-9155
701 Ewing St. #509-C, Ft. Wayne IN, 46802

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