Re: Resigning from Apache Geode mentor

Thanks Roman, was very grateful to be part of that family =) - Henry On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: > Henry, > > let me just say once again: we are really grateful for > your efforts around Geode. Sad to see you go. > > Thanks, > Roman. > > On

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

I like Roman's idea of filling out the maturity model template, I too think that might help get a holistic view . I can volunteer to do it as a sentry community member if needed. And let me take a stab at which of these I think we did for growing the community. On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:22 AM,

Request for permission to edit the Apache MADlib (incubating) wiki

Hello, Can someone kindly grant me permission to edit the MADlib wiki https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MADLIB/Apache+MADlib+Home Thank you, Frank my wiki ID is: fmcquillan

Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Graduate Apache Brooklyn from incubator (corrected)

Please find below the corrected version of the proposed resolution: * corrected first paragraph to agree with the 3rd * added last paragraph (releasing incubator) * corrected before last paragraph (migration task) Since I am getting paranoid, a nod from other pairs of eyes would be highly

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 08:43 PM, John D. Ament wrote: > I don't think that's the question on the table. Typically, podlings make > committers == PPMC members. The reasoning being that the only thing a > PPMC member can do is vote on adding new members. Other votes are all > non-binding (unless

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 08:26 PM, Lenni Kuff wrote: > I think there is some confusion here. The Sentry project has never > considered Committer == PMC. The recent website change was only to help > clarify the roles of each of the members of the project, it was not the > result of any decision

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:52 PM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 08:43 PM, John D. Ament wrote: > > I don't think that's the question on the table. Typically, podlings make > > committers == PPMC members. The reasoning being that the only thing a > > PPMC member

Re: Request for permission to edit the Apache MADlib (incubating) wiki

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 2:12 PM, Frank McQuillan wrote: > Hello, > > Can someone kindly grant me permission to edit the MADlib wiki > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MADLIB/Apache+MADlib+Home Done! Thanks, Roman.

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

I think there is some confusion here. The Sentry project has never considered Committer == PMC. The recent website change was only to help clarify the roles of each of the members of the project, it was not the result of any decision being made. Thanks, Lenni On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 3:03 PM, P.

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Nov 4, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Lenni Kuff wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:05 AM, P. Taylor Goetz >> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Nov 4, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: >>> >>> * I would invite folks with access to go to Sentry's

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 09:02 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > My experience on other projects is the same as Joe. afaik it's up to the > podling, and most I've been involved with decided to go with committer != > ppmc. Honestly I thought that was the default. And here I think I have to agree that it

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

I don't think that's the question on the table. Typically, podlings make committers == PPMC members. The reasoning being that the only thing a PPMC member can do is vote on adding new members. Other votes are all non-binding (unless you're an IPMC member). It also helps promote the synergy

Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Graduate Apache Brooklyn from incubator (corrected)

The changes look good to me. Safe travels. On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:23 PM Hadrian Zbarcea wrote: > Please find below the corrected version of the proposed resolution: > * corrected first paragraph to agree with the 3rd > * added last paragraph (releasing incubator) >

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Just to contrast this with the IPMC itself, we discuss everything here, including past decisions. Almost everything that happens here is a community decision, and we try to move with near unanimous consent. It is generally hard to figure out what roles people have without some formal VOTE where

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

+1 to the below. ++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Chief Architect Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527 Email:

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Thanks Chris. So what I'm saying is, instead of adopting the position that "we" have made up our minds on this matter well before joining the incubator, why not recognize that at this point your community now includes new committers and new community members following along for which their voices

Re: [VOTE] Apache Sirona 0.3-incubating

+1 ( bindings ) Le mar 3 nov. 2015 13:25, Romain Manni-Bucau a écrit : > Hi, > > As mentionned on sirona list I'd like to release Apache Sirona > 0.3-incubating. > > Fixed issues: > >

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Committership is the right to do work on the project. PMC membership is the right to participate in governance. People left in the nebulous state between committership and PMC membership for long periods of time more than likely will give up in frustration for not being trusted enough to govern

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Thanks Lenni. If Joe will permit me to put some words in his mouth, he seems to be focused on how the project is solving coordination problems. Coming to agreement on things like what to include in a release for instance, which jiras get punted to which release schedules, etc, it's hard to see

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

This may sound a bit pedantic, but the "Sentry project" isn't capable of considering anything. Either you are referring to a decision of the committers or the PPMC or the community, all of which requires some discussion over time about any position being taken. I would consider it unusual for the

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Also, I'm not quite clear on what is meant by "running" a release. Do you mean a committer not on the PMC functioned as Release Manager? Normally someone who does that is sending a clear-cut signal that they belong on the PMC, because all that work they are doing is being done on behalf of the

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Thanks Joe. That was a powerful read and very inspiring. This should be posted on a wiki someplace. I agree. This seems like an important topic to revisit on our list to see how the community feels - and more generally, discuss more topics (big, small, new, old) more frequently moving forward.

Request for write access to Incubator Wiki

Hi, I would like to be granted write access to the Apache Wiki for the Apache Incubator. I shall be posting the status report content on behalf of the new Mynewt project. My username is ‘aditihilbert' thanks, Aditi - To

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

PMC membership has nothing to do with technical mastery of the codebase, which is why I cringe every time I see people talking about what "the bar" should be. It's about trust. If you trust someone to work the gears on a release, that has considerable impact on the well-being of a project, and

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Hi, On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Sravya Tirukkovalur wrote: > ...I like Roman's idea of filling out the maturity model template,... FWIW we did this recently for Groovy and it's been useful, see https://github.com/apache/incubator-groovy/blob/master/MATURITY.adoc

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Greg Stein wrote: > On Nov 4, 2015 10:03 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" >>... I agree but in the meantime we have >> https://community.apache.org/apache-way/apache-project-maturity-model.html > > "we" don't have anything.

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 11:00 PM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > PMC membership has nothing to do with technical mastery of the codebase, > which > is why I cringe every time I see people talking about what "the bar" should > be. > It's about trust. If you trust someone to work the

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > ...how about the > Sentry community focuses in on those three and asks, if we believe they are > not yet ready, what can we do to facilitate their development and get them to > the point where they *are* ready?

Re: Mentor vs. Champion

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:57 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: >> Hi! >> >> I'm confused about why do I see my name >> in the mentor sign-off section here: >>

Re: Mentor vs. Champion

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:35 AM, Roman Shaposhnik wrote: > Hi! > > I'm confused about why do I see my name > in the mentor sign-off section here: > https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2015 > > I've just checked podlings.xml and I am only > listed there as a Champion.

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:05 AM, P. Taylor Goetz > wrote: > > > > > On Nov 4, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: > > > > * I would invite folks with access to go to Sentry's

Re: Mentor disengagement - a suggestion

On Nov 4, 2015 12:54 AM, "Justin Erenkrantz" wrote: > > I will just note that I disagree with adding bureaucracy like this. It's not bureaucracy. It's suggesting a tool by which a mentor might measure a podling's progress. It answers the question "how can I tell if they're

Re: [Result][VOTE] Graduate Apache Kylin from the Apache Incubator

Hi there, The new release (v1.1.1) already rolled out in IPMC for vote now [1]. The release vote in IPMC will send out later once vote pass in PPMC, but it will perfect if someone could help to double check and test this release if possible in advance. Just want to make sure such concern

Re: Mentor disengagement - a suggestion

Hi Justin, Just to clarify. On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:54 AM Justin Erenkrantz wrote: > I will just note that I disagree with adding bureaucracy like this. > We already require podlings to submit reports as frequently as > monthly. (Geode somehow had to report monthly

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Joe, has any of this conversation put your mind at ease about the podling? I certainly think you've done the right thing by raising your concerns here and asking for a sanity check. On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Greg Stein wrote: > On Nov 4, 2015 2:47 AM, "Bertrand

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > > ...what would the action item the community should take away from > > this? As their mentor I'm not sure what advice i can give them.

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > So you are -1 then. That's fine. But it gets back to my original concern. > It's artificial. I can go back to the Sentry community and say "hey, you > need some PPMC members, vote some in" and they might do it. It was > already > mentioned

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

Hi, On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > ...If you read the graduation requirements it says nothing about adding PPMC > as a strict requirement to graduation: > http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html#Graduating+from+the+Incubator ... I

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > > ...If you read the graduation requirements it says nothing about adding > PPMC > > as a strict requirement to graduation: > > >

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 10:27 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > Joe, has any of this conversation put your mind at ease about the > podling? I'm less concerned than I was, yes. I'm still not in +1 territory. I'm not entirely sure I'm out of -1 territory. Sentry has made progress in its time in the

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > ...If they come back in a week and say "hey, > we just voted in 3 new ppmc members, now we're ready right?" you'll be fine > with that? This is why I highlighted it as artificial This is getting rethorical...I'm not

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Nov 4, 2015 10:03 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" wrote: > > Hi, > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > > ...If you read the graduation requirements it says nothing about adding PPMC > > as a strict requirement to graduation: > >

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 10:27 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > > Joe, has any of this conversation put your mind at ease about the > > podling? > > I'm less concerned than I was, yes. I'm still not in +1 territory. I'm > not

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:50 AM, Greg Stein wrote: > On Nov 4, 2015 10:03 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" > wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 4:52 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > > > ...If you read the graduation requirements it

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:35 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > > So you are -1 then. That's fine. But it gets back to my original concern. > > It's artificial. I can go back to the Sentry community and say "hey, you > > need some

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Nov 4, 2015 2:47 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > > ...what would the action item the community should take away from > > this? As their mentor I'm not sure what advice i can give them. "add

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 8:32 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015, at 10:27 AM, Joe Schaefer wrote: > > Joe, has any of this conversation put your mind at ease about the > > podling? > > I'm less concerned than I was, yes. I'm still not in +1 territory. I'm > not

RE: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

For me, the key, nay brilliant, terms in the Maturity Model are about "striving." The question is always, is there demonstrable striving toward the elements identified in the maturity model. If that's not apparent, then one has to wonder, whatever the level of achievement, whether that's

Re: Resigning from Apache Geode mentor

Henry, let me just say once again: we are really grateful for your efforts around Geode. Sad to see you go. Thanks, Roman. On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 9:23 PM, Henry Saputra wrote: > As part of supporting the mentors engagement to codlings to give more > attentive help and

Mentor vs. Champion

Hi! I'm confused about why do I see my name in the mentor sign-off section here: https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/November2015 I've just checked podlings.xml and I am only listed there as a Champion. Thoughts? Thanks, Roman.

Re: Mentor disengagement - a suggestion

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 11:24 AM, Rich Bowen wrote: > I look to the ipmc chair to say what we MUST or MUST NOT do. I've learned > my lesson. Makes two of us. Still waiting on actionable guidance. Thanks, Roman.

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

> On Nov 4, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: > > * I would invite folks with access to go to Sentry's private list and > look over discussions about adding new contributors, and discussions > about the project in general. I took a look. From a community growth

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:05 AM, P. Taylor Goetz wrote: > > On Nov 4, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Joe Brockmeier wrote: > > * I would invite folks with access to go to Sentry's private list and > look over discussions about adding new contributors, and discussions >

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > In my experience "growing the community" is hard. It's very easy to say, > hard to do. Agreed -- and that why so many podlings put so much effort into it over the course of incubation and find it a challenging hurdle to

Re: Concerning Sentry: A disagreement over the Apache Way and graduation

On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 10:21 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > For me, the key, nay brilliant, terms in the Maturity Model are about > "striving." > > The question is always, is there demonstrable striving toward the elements > identified in the maturity model. > > If

Re: Resigning as HAWQ mentor

Owen, thanks for helping us out to get going! Sad to see you go. Thanks, Roman. On Wed, Oct 28, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Owen O'Malley wrote: > All, >I'd like to resign as a HAWQ mentor. HAWQ will still have 5 mentors, so > it should still be in good shape. > > Thanks, >