Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Thanks Chris, Mea culpa. You’re right and I’m wrong and we’ll look into fixing the release process so PPMC only are binding. I will work with the project on its community. Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 22, 2022, at 12:57 AM, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > > Sooo … assuming we let Tuweni graduate, > > If you could only release with binding votes from the incubator. > How would you be able to release without it? > > Because technically as a TLP there is nowhere, where you could get those > missing votes. > > And if a project can’t release because there are too little PMC members able > to vote, that’s the direct path to the Attic. > > So please invest some time and effort into growing and engaging your > community. > Trust them with making changes and decisions. > Promote your project publicly and promote that people are welcome to come and > contribute. > Offer them to be their mentor for their first contributions. > > That’s my advice and happy to chat if you want some help with that all. > (Help like in guidance, not help, like in doing the work) > > Chris > > From: Antoine Toulme > Date: Thursday, 22. December 2022 at 08:48 > To: general > Subject: Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > > >> On Dec 21, 2022, at 12:55 AM, Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the >> board will accept it. >> >> Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC >> doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. >> The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and >> to grow its community into a sustainable project. >> I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is >> completely missing. >> >> I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from >> contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects >> are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. >> So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the >> community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. >> >> The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors >> >> Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? >> Also did I have a look at your last release thread: >> There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno >> Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. >> A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release >> wasn’t ok. > Because this release didn’t have enough votes, we moved it to the general > incubator list where it was duly voted. > >> >> I think this project should focus on building the community, having others >> be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for >> graduation. >> >> Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 >> >> So here goes: >> >> -1 binding >> >> Chris >> >> >> From: Antoine Toulme >> Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 >> To: general >> Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >> Folks, >> >> Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. >> >> The results are as follows: >> +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) >> +0: 0 >> -1: 0 >> >> Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and >> drafting a resolution for the board. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Antoine >> >>> On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: >>> >>> I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance >>> for final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Antoine >>> >>>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: >>>> >>>> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >>>> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >>>> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >>>> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >>>> >>>> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >>>> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >>&g
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Sooo … assuming we let Tuweni graduate, If you could only release with binding votes from the incubator. How would you be able to release without it? Because technically as a TLP there is nowhere, where you could get those missing votes. And if a project can’t release because there are too little PMC members able to vote, that’s the direct path to the Attic. So please invest some time and effort into growing and engaging your community. Trust them with making changes and decisions. Promote your project publicly and promote that people are welcome to come and contribute. Offer them to be their mentor for their first contributions. That’s my advice and happy to chat if you want some help with that all. (Help like in guidance, not help, like in doing the work) Chris From: Antoine Toulme Date: Thursday, 22. December 2022 at 08:48 To: general Subject: Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > On Dec 21, 2022, at 12:55 AM, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the > board will accept it. > > Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC > doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. > The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and to > grow its community into a sustainable project. > I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is completely > missing. > > I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from > contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects are > usually the ones easiest to get involved in. > So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the > community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. > > The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? > Also did I have a look at your last release thread: > There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno Ferrin” > who seems to “only” be a Committer. > A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release > wasn’t ok. Because this release didn’t have enough votes, we moved it to the general incubator list where it was duly voted. > > I think this project should focus on building the community, having others be > the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for graduation. > > Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 > > So here goes: > > -1 binding > > Chris > > > From: Antoine Toulme > Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 > To: general > Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > Folks, > > Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. > > The results are as follows: > +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) > +0: 0 > -1: 0 > > Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and > drafting a resolution for the board. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > >> On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: >> >> I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for >> final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Antoine >> >>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: >>> >>> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >>> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >>> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >>> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >>> >>> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >>> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >>> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >>> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >>> >>> >>> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry for asking, >>>> >>>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >>>> understand what you wanted to say >>>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >>>> it). >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> From: Dave Fisher
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
HI, > Because this release didn’t have enough votes, we moved it to the general > incubator list where it was duly voted. Sorry, that’s not how it works, the PPMC needs to vote on it first, and then once that has passed, vote for it on the IPMC list. If you don’t get enough votes on the podling's list, that may indicate a community issue. Either you need to find more PPMC members or try and engage existing ones. Kind Regards, Justin
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
> On Dec 21, 2022, at 12:55 AM, Christofer Dutz > wrote: > > Hi all, > > I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the > board will accept it. > > Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC > doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. > The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and to > grow its community into a sustainable project. > I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is completely > missing. > > I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from > contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects are > usually the ones easiest to get involved in. > So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the > community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. > > The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? > Also did I have a look at your last release thread: > There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno Ferrin” > who seems to “only” be a Committer. > A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release > wasn’t ok. Because this release didn’t have enough votes, we moved it to the general incubator list where it was duly voted. > > I think this project should focus on building the community, having others be > the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for graduation. > > Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 > > So here goes: > > -1 binding > > Chris > > > From: Antoine Toulme > Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 > To: general > Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > Folks, > > Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. > > The results are as follows: > +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) > +0: 0 > -1: 0 > > Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and > drafting a resolution for the board. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > >> On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: >> >> I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for >> final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Antoine >> >>> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: >>> >>> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >>> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >>> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >>> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >>> >>> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >>> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >>> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >>> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >>> >>> >>> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Sorry for asking, >>>> >>>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >>>> understand what you wanted to say >>>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >>>> it). >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> From: Dave Fisher >>>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 >>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow >>>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate >>>> discussion. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release >>>> checking. >>>>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still >>>>> need to pay lots of attention to com
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
I agree with Christofer Dutz. I expressed my concerns about the diversity of the community, mainly because the community highly dependent on single contributor(Antoine Toulme), I did not directly vote -1 because I think it's better for Tuweni could continue to build community in Incubator and continue to vote when grows diverse community. If it is necessary to vote now, I give my vote -1(binding). I still think it is a good way to build diverse community in the Incubator, because mentors and other IPMC members can give more guidences and help. Christofer Dutz 于2022年12月21日周三 16:55写道： > Hi all, > > I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the > board will accept it. > > Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC > doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. > The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and > to grow its community into a sustainable project. > I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is > completely missing. > > I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from > contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects > are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. > So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing > the community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. > > The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: > https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? > Also did I have a look at your last release thread: > There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno > Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. > A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release > wasn’t ok. > > I think this project should focus on building the community, having others > be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for > graduation. > > Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 > > So here goes: > > -1 binding > > Chris > > > From: Antoine Toulme > Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 > To: general > Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > Folks, > > Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. > > The results are as follows: > +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher > (binding) > +0: 0 > -1: 0 > > Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and > drafting a resolution for the board. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > > > On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: > > > > I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance > for final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Antoine > > > >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: > >> > >> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is > projects > >> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new > features on > >> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that > deep > >> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. > >> > >> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. > >> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and > >> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is > the > >> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. > >> > >> > >> I’ll get off my soapbox now. > >> > >> - Josh > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz < > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Sorry for asking, > >>> > >>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t > >>> understand what you wanted to say > >>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t > understand > >>> it). > >>> > >>> Chris > >>> > >>> From: Dave Fisher > >>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 > >>> To: general@incubator.apache.org > >>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > >>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow > >>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate > discussion. > >>> > >>>
Re: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Hi all, I still think just because a resolution is added that it doesn’t mean the board will accept it. Having barely 3 +1 votes also seems an indicator that the rest of the IPMC doesn’t clearly believe Tuweni is ready for graduation. The incubator is for projects to learn how to do things the Apache way and to grow its community into a sustainable project. I see that the first part seems to be done, but the second part is completely missing. I also don’t agree that being in the incubator will keep anyone from contributing, I even think that most people know that incubating projects are usually the ones easiest to get involved in. So I would like to bring the counter-argument to the table, that growing the community might become harder, once Tuweni is a TLP. The problem I see is perfectly reflected by this: https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors Has anyone besides you – Antoine – ever done a release? Also did I have a look at your last release thread: There you had exactly 3 +1 votes, however one of them was from “Danno Ferrin” who seems to “only” be a Committer. A PPMC +1 vote would have been required here, so technically this release wasn’t ok. I think this project should focus on building the community, having others be the Release Manager for one or two releases and then to aim for graduation. Maybe I should make my opinion a bit more explicit by officially voting -1 So here goes: -1 binding Chris From: Antoine Toulme Date: Wednesday, 21. December 2022 at 07:02 To: general Subject: [RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation Folks, Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. The results are as follows: +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) +0: 0 -1: 0 Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and drafting a resolution for the board. Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: > > I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for > final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: >> >> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >> >> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >> >> >> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >> >> - Josh >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry for asking, >>> >>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >>> understand what you wanted to say >>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >>> it). >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> From: Dave Fisher >>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 >>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow >>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dave >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release >>> checking. >>>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still >>>> need to pay lots of attention to community building. >>>> >>>> >>>> Willem Jiang >>>> >>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello folks, >>>>> >>>>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its >>> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the >>> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has >>> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off >>> all incubation checks. >>>>> Community bu
[RESULT][VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Folks, Thank you for your participation in the Apache Tuweni graduation vote. The results are as follows: +1: 3 Antoine Toulme (binding), Larry Mccay (binding), Dave Fisher (binding) +0: 0 -1: 0 Thanks all! We will proceed to the next step of voting for a PMC chair and drafting a resolution for the board. Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 20, 2022, at 8:45 AM, Antoine Toulme wrote: > > I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for > final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. > > Cheers, > > Antoine > >> On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: >> >> To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects >> will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on >> top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep >> knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. >> >> Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. >> Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and >> contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the >> most important part of building a self-sustaining community. >> >> >> I’ll get off my soapbox now. >> >> - Josh >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz >> wrote: >> >>> Sorry for asking, >>> >>> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >>> understand what you wanted to say >>> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >>> it). >>> >>> Chris >>> >>> From: Dave Fisher >>> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 >>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow >>> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. >>> >>> Best, >>> Dave >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release >>> checking. >>>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still >>>> need to pay lots of attention to community building. >>>> >>>> >>>> Willem Jiang >>>> >>>> Twitter: willemjiang >>>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>>> >>>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello folks, >>>>> >>>>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its >>> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the >>> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has >>> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off >>> all incubation checks. >>>>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and >>> later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have >>> onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. >>> I expect this trend to continue and mature. >>>>> >>>>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is >>> the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and >>> slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move >>> away from the project. >>>>> >>>>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from >>> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to >>> attract contributors on our own. >>>>> >>>>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have >>> been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their >>> precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the >>> incubator. >>>>> >>>>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience >>> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's >>> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the >>> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. >>>>> >>>>> I vote +
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
I’ve let the vote go on for a bit. I’d like to make sure we get a chance for final votes and comments and I will close it by tonight PT time. Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 19, 2022, at 6:45 AM, Josh Fischer wrote: > > To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects > will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on > top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep > knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. > > Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. > Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and > contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the > most important part of building a self-sustaining community. > > > I’ll get off my soapbox now. > > - Josh > > > > On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz > wrote: > >> Sorry for asking, >> >> but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t >> understand what you wanted to say >> (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand >> it). >> >> Chris >> >> From: Dave Fisher >> Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 >> To: general@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >> Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow >> explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. >> >> Best, >> Dave >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang >> wrote: >>> >>> I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release >> checking. >>> But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still >>> need to pay lots of attention to community building. >>> >>> >>> Willem Jiang >>> >>> Twitter: willemjiang >>> Weibo: 姜宁willem >>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme >> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hello folks, >>>> >>>> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its >> incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the >> domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has >> managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off >> all incubation checks. >>>> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and >> later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have >> onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. >> I expect this trend to continue and mature. >>>> >>>> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is >> the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and >> slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move >> away from the project. >>>> >>>> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from >> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to >> attract contributors on our own. >>>> >>>> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have >> been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their >> precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the >> incubator. >>>> >>>> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience >> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's >> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the >> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. >>>> >>>> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Antoine >>>> >>>>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: >>>>> >>>>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with >> considerable >>>>> adoption falter. >>>>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a >> contributing >>>>> factor here. >>>>> >>>>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and >> encountering >>>>> attrition is different from TLP >>>>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project >>
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
To build on what Dave is saying (from my experience at least) is projects will enter the incubator and they tend to focus on building new features on top of new features. Instead of focusing on how they can transfer that deep knowledge of the system to anyone who is willing to learn. Getting those people to feel comfortable stepping up can be a challenge. Making new comers (whoever they are) feel welcome to ask questions and contribute on mailing list discussion, prs, code contributions, etc is the most important part of building a self-sustaining community. I’ll get off my soapbox now. - Josh On Mon, Dec 19, 2022 at 2:40 AM Christofer Dutz wrote: > Sorry for asking, > > but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t > understand what you wanted to say > (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand > it). > > Chris > > From: Dave Fisher > Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 > To: general@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow > explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. > > Best, > Dave > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang > wrote: > > > > I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release > checking. > > But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still > > need to pay lots of attention to community building. > > > > > > Willem Jiang > > > > Twitter: willemjiang > > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > > >> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme > wrote: > >> > >> Hello folks, > >> > >> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its > incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the > domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has > managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off > all incubation checks. > >> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and > later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have > onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. > I expect this trend to continue and mature. > >> > >> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is > the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and > slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move > away from the project. > >> > >> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from > what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to > attract contributors on our own. > >> > >> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have > been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their > precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the > incubator. > >> > >> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience > building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's > time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the > project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. > >> > >> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Antoine > >> > >>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: > >>> > >>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with > considerable > >>> adoption falter. > >>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a > contributing > >>> factor here. > >>> > >>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and > encountering > >>> attrition is different from TLP > >>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project > while > >>> others can fall off in a healthy way. > >>> > >>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases > >>> demonstrates contributors in the community > >>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz < > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in > whic
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Sorry for asking, but Dave, could you please explain that reply … admittedly I didn’t understand what you wanted to say (Guess I would consider it advanced English and I simply didn’t understand it). Chris From: Dave Fisher Date: Monday, 12. December 2022 at 06:19 To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. Best, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang wrote: > > I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release checking. > But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still > need to pay lots of attention to community building. > > > Willem Jiang > > Twitter: willemjiang > Weibo: 姜宁willem > >> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme wrote: >> >> Hello folks, >> >> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation at >> Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it applies >> to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed to create >> enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all incubation checks. >> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later as >> well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded >> successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect >> this trend to continue and mature. >> >> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the >> incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows >> down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away >> from the project. >> >> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from what >> I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to attract >> contributors on our own. >> >> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been >> helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious >> time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator. >> >> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience building >> with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's time and >> attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the project is >> mature enough to function outside of the incubator. >> >> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Antoine >> >>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: >>> >>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with considerable >>> adoption falter. >>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a contributing >>> factor here. >>> >>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and encountering >>> attrition is different from TLP >>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while >>> others can fall off in a healthy way. >>> >>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases >>> demonstrates contributors in the community >>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which >>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. >>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. >>>> >>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. >>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. >>>> >>>> Just my opinion on this topic. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> From: Willem Jiang >>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 >>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a >>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). >>>> >>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community >>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have >>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. I
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Thanks. I think you are onto an idea of community that could be somehow explicitly part of the incubator’s curriculum. That’s a separate discussion. Best, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 11, 2022, at 7:17 PM, Willem Jiang wrote: > > I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release checking. > But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still > need to pay lots of attention to community building. > > > Willem Jiang > > Twitter: willemjiang > Weibo: 姜宁willem > >> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme wrote: >> >> Hello folks, >> >> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation at >> Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it applies >> to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed to create >> enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all incubation checks. >> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later as >> well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded >> successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect >> this trend to continue and mature. >> >> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the >> incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows >> down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away >> from the project. >> >> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from what >> I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to attract >> contributors on our own. >> >> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been >> helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious >> time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator. >> >> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience building >> with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's time and >> attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the project is >> mature enough to function outside of the incubator. >> >> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Antoine >> >>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: >>> >>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with considerable >>> adoption falter. >>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a contributing >>> factor here. >>> >>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and encountering >>> attrition is different from TLP >>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while >>> others can fall off in a healthy way. >>> >>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases >>> demonstrates contributors in the community >>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which >>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. >>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. >>>> >>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. >>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. >>>> >>>> Just my opinion on this topic. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> From: Willem Jiang >>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 >>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a >>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). >>>> >>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community >>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have >>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited >>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and >>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make >>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much >>>> higher if the
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
I agree we don't need to hold the Tuweni graduation for the release checking. But if we want to build a sustainable Open Source project, we still need to pay lots of attention to community building. Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: 姜宁willem On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 9:24 AM Antoine Toulme wrote: > > Hello folks, > > Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation at > Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it applies > to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed to create > enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all incubation checks. > Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later as > well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded > successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect > this trend to continue and mature. > > The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the > incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows > down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away > from the project. > > The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from what I > know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to attract > contributors on our own. > > The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been > helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious > time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator. > > With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience building > with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's time and > attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the project is > mature enough to function outside of the incubator. > > I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. > > Thanks, > > Antoine > > > On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: > > > > We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with considerable > > adoption falter. > > I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a contributing > > factor here. > > > > Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and encountering > > attrition is different from TLP > > with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while > > others can fall off in a healthy way. > > > > Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases > > demonstrates contributors in the community > > even if they aren't all materially contributing code. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz > > wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which > >> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. > >> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. > >> > >> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. > >> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. > >> > >> Just my opinion on this topic. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> From: Willem Jiang > >> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 > >> To: general@incubator.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > >> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a > >> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). > >> > >> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community > >> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have > >> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited > >> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and > >> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make > >> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much > >> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond > >> to feedback and questions for lack of time." > >> > >> [1] > >> https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces > >> [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ > >> > >> Willem Jiang > >> > >> Twitter: willemjiang > >> Weibo: 姜宁willem > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker f
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
+1 (binding) As one of the podling’s mentors I think that Tuweni is more than ready to be a TLP. Best, Dave Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 11, 2022, at 5:11 PM, larry mccay wrote: > > +1 to graduate Tuweni to TLP. > > >> On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 8:24 PM Antoine Toulme wrote: >> >> Hello folks, >> >> Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation >> at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it >> applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed >> to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all >> incubation checks. >> Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later >> as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded >> successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect >> this trend to continue and mature. >> >> The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the >> incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows >> down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away >> from the project. >> >> The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from >> what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to >> attract contributors on our own. >> >> The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been >> helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious >> time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator. >> >> With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience >> building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's >> time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the >> project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. >> >> I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Antoine >> >>>> On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: >>> >>> We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with >> considerable >>> adoption falter. >>> I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a >> contributing >>> factor here. >>> >>> Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and >> encountering >>> attrition is different from TLP >>> with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while >>> others can fall off in a healthy way. >>> >>> Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases >>> demonstrates contributors in the community >>> even if they aren't all materially contributing code. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz < >> christofer.d...@c-ware.de> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which >>>> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. >>>> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. >>>> >>>> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. >>>> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. >>>> >>>> Just my opinion on this topic. >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> From: Willem Jiang >>>> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 >>>> To: general@incubator.apache.org >>>> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >>>> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a >>>> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). >>>> >>>> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community >>>> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have >>>> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited >>>> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and >>>> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make >>>> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much >>>> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond >>>> to feedback and questions for lack of time." >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> >> https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/m
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
+1 to graduate Tuweni to TLP. On Sat, Dec 10, 2022 at 8:24 PM Antoine Toulme wrote: > Hello folks, > > Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation > at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it > applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed > to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all > incubation checks. > Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later > as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded > successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect > this trend to continue and mature. > > The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the > incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows > down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away > from the project. > > The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from > what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to > attract contributors on our own. > > The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been > helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious > time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator. > > With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience > building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's > time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the > project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. > > I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. > > Thanks, > > Antoine > > > On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: > > > > We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with > considerable > > adoption falter. > > I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a > contributing > > factor here. > > > > Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and > encountering > > attrition is different from TLP > > with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while > > others can fall off in a healthy way. > > > > Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases > > demonstrates contributors in the community > > even if they aren't all materially contributing code. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz < > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > > wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> > >> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which > >> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. > >> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. > >> > >> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. > >> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. > >> > >> Just my opinion on this topic. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> From: Willem Jiang > >> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 > >> To: general@incubator.apache.org > >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > >> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a > >> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). > >> > >> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community > >> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have > >> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited > >> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and > >> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make > >> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much > >> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond > >> to feedback and questions for lack of time." > >> > >> [1] > >> > https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces > >> [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ > >> > >> Willem Jiang > >> > >> Twitter: willemjiang > >> Weibo: 姜宁willem > >> > >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. > >>> There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. > >>> There has been healthy conversation about this ver
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Hello folks, Apache Tuweni had a much smaller community when it started its incubation at Apache. The path of this project has been impacted by the domain it applies to and the pandemic certainly hasn't helped. Still it has managed to create enough momentum to make regular releases and check off all incubation checks. Community building is definitely still on the menu - right now and later as well. We will continue building and including folks. We have onboarded successfully multiple committers and have received contributions. I expect this trend to continue and mature. The question is whether the best place for us to continue growing is the incubator. The incubator adds additional checks on our releases and slows down our cycles, which has historically driven folks to fork and move away from the project. The incubator doesn't offer opportunities for community building, from what I know. We will need to continue to build our image and presence to attract contributors on our own. The project mentors have been nothing short of fantastic. They have been helpful in maturing the project. In my opinion, we are using their precious time when they should be engaged in helping other projects of the incubator. With this, I want to thank the incubator. We had a great experience building with you all. I personally believe we should free the incubator's time and attention to concentrate on other projects. I also believe the project is mature enough to function outside of the incubator. I vote +1 to graduate Tuweni from the incubator. Thanks, Antoine > On Dec 7, 2022, at 3:37 PM, larry mccay wrote: > > We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with considerable > adoption falter. > I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a contributing > factor here. > > Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and encountering > attrition is different from TLP > with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while > others can fall off in a healthy way. > > Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases > demonstrates contributors in the community > even if they aren't all materially contributing code. > > > > On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which >> even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. >> So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. >> >> Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. >> It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. >> >> Just my opinion on this topic. >> >> Chris >> >> From: Willem Jiang >> Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 >> To: general@incubator.apache.org >> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation >> It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a >> diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). >> >> " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community >> leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have >> to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited >> capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and >> neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make >> their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much >> higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond >> to feedback and questions for lack of time." >> >> [1] >> https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces >> [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ >> >> Willem Jiang >> >> Twitter: willemjiang >> Weibo: 姜宁willem >> >> On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay wrote: >>> >>> I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. >>> There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. >>> There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the >> mentors >>> and contributors on the private list. >>> >>> The nature of this project is that the consumption of these libraries are >>> going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may grow >>> larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. >>> >>> The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases >>> within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, >> etc. >>> The long term success will require a larger active community but
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
We have also recently seen long term incubating projects with considerable adoption falter. I consider the fact that they did not graduate early enough a contributing factor here. Nothing wrong with incubation but staying in the incubator and encountering attrition is different from TLP with some churn with new folks coming into an official TLP project while others can fall off in a healthy way. Again, having the community test and release 14 separate releases demonstrates contributors in the community even if they aren't all materially contributing code. On Wed, Dec 7, 2022 at 3:45 AM Christofer Dutz wrote: > Hi all, > > And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which > even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. > So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. > > Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. > It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. > > Just my opinion on this topic. > > Chris > > From: Willem Jiang > Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 > To: general@incubator.apache.org > Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation > It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a > diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). > > " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community > leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have > to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited > capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and > neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make > their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much > higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond > to feedback and questions for lack of time." > > [1] > https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces > [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ > > Willem Jiang > > Twitter: willemjiang > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay wrote: > > > > I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. > > There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. > > There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the > mentors > > and contributors on the private list. > > > > The nature of this project is that the consumption of these libraries are > > going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may grow > > larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. > > > > The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases > > within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, > etc. > > The long term success will require a larger active community but I don't > > think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have been > met. > > > > My 2 cents. > > > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang > wrote: > > > > > I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is relatively > high. > > > > > > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor > > > > > > Willem Jiang > > > > > > Twitter: willemjiang > > > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang wrote: > > > > > > > > I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of > the > > > > mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. > > > > > > > > It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme > self, > > > > I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. > > > > > > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > > > [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org > > > > [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS > > > > > > > > Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > > > > > > > > > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > > > > > > > > > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > > > > > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies > were > > > > > received. > > > > > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community > [1], we > > > > > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote > result > > > > > was published [3]. > > > > > > > > > > I
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Hi all, And in the last few months the ASF has sadly seen enough cases, in which even big projects suffered from the lack of diversity. So, I would also consider this to be a blocker. Community building isn’t something that happens or comes for free. It’s actually hard work, but it needs to be done. Just my opinion on this topic. Chris From: Willem Jiang Date: Wednesday, 7. December 2022 at 02:59 To: general@incubator.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond to feedback and questions for lack of time." [1]https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: 姜宁willem On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay wrote: > > I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. > There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. > There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the mentors > and contributors on the private list. > > The nature of this project is that the consumption of these libraries are > going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may grow > larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. > > The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases > within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, etc. > The long term success will require a larger active community but I don't > think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have been met. > > My 2 cents. > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang wrote: > > > I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is relatively high. > > > > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor > > > > Willem Jiang > > > > Twitter: willemjiang > > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang wrote: > > > > > > I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of the > > > mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. > > > > > > It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self, > > > I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. > > > > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > > [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org > > > [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS > > > > > > Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > > > > > > > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > > > > > > > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > > > > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were > > > > received. > > > > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we > > > > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result > > > > was published [3]. > > > > > > > > I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache > > > > Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. > > > > > > > > Please provide your vote accordingly: > > > > [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache > > Incubator. > > > > [ ] +0 No opinion. > > > > [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... > > > > > > > > Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for > > at > > > > least 72 hours. > > > > > > > > Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with the > > > > vote. > > > > > > > > *Community* > > > > > > > > ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along with > > > > mentors. > > > > ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of committers > > to > > > > 14 from 12 different > > > > organi
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
It looks like we need a dedicated community leader[1] to build a diverse community (just borrow a pattern from InnerSource Common[2]). " Communication takes up a significant percentage of a community leader's daily work. At the same time, he or she will likely also have to spearhead the initial development, too. In the face of limited capacity, inexperienced leaders will tend to focus on development and neglect communication. The barrier for potential contributors to make their first contribution and to commit to the community will be much higher if the community leader is hard to reach or is slow to respond to feedback and questions for lack of time." [1]https://github.com/InnerSourceCommons/InnerSourcePatterns/blob/main/patterns/2-structured/dedicated-community-leader.md#forces [2]https://innersourcecommons.org/ Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: 姜宁willem On Tue, Dec 6, 2022 at 9:51 AM larry mccay wrote: > > I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. > There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. > There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the mentors > and contributors on the private list. > > The nature of this project is that the consumption of these libraries are > going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may grow > larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. > > The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases > within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, etc. > The long term success will require a larger active community but I don't > think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have been met. > > My 2 cents. > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang wrote: > > > I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is relatively high. > > > > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor > > > > Willem Jiang > > > > Twitter: willemjiang > > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang wrote: > > > > > > I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of the > > > mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. > > > > > > It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self, > > > I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. > > > > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > > [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org > > > [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS > > > > > > Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > > > > > > > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > > > > > > > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > > > > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were > > > > received. > > > > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we > > > > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result > > > > was published [3]. > > > > > > > > I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache > > > > Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. > > > > > > > > Please provide your vote accordingly: > > > > [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache > > Incubator. > > > > [ ] +0 No opinion. > > > > [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... > > > > > > > > Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for > > at > > > > least 72 hours. > > > > > > > > Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with the > > > > vote. > > > > > > > > *Community* > > > > > > > > ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along with > > > > mentors. > > > > ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of committers > > to > > > > 14 from 12 different > > > > organizations. > > > > ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. > > > > ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. > > > > > > > > *Project* > > > > > > > > ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools to > > aid > > > > development of blockchain and other decentralized software in Java and > > > > other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, > > serialization > > > > and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography functions > > and > > > > primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is developed > > for > > > > JDK 11 or higher. > > > > ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] > > > > ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 > > > > months. > > > > ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. > > > > ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. > > > > ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. > > > > ● The release cadence is about 3 months. > > > > > > > > *Brand, License, and Copyright* > > > > > > > > ● We submitted an application for the brand [9]
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Regarding graduation, the ASF official website made some introductions, and also introduced how to build an open and diverse community. First,whether graduation requires diversity? Here is a quote from [1]. > A major criterion for graduation is to have developed an open and diverse meritocratic community. Time has demonstrated that these kinds of communities are more robust and productive than more closed ones. Second, is the current community diverse? Here is the introduction to diversity in [1]. > The project is considered to have a diverse community when it is not highly dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent committers and there is no single company or entity that is vital to the success of the project). Because I checked the [3],[4],[5] and It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self,so I have the concern. Of course, we can also provide more evidence that the community is diverse Third, how community grows diverse? We can read more on how to successfully build an open and diverse community in the community guide[2]. [1]https://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html [2]https://incubator.apache.org/guides/community.html [3]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors [4]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org [5]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月6日周二 15:56写道： > Here are the relevant messages Larry mentions: > https://lists.apache.org/thread/rl93tocc2nt3b6lnwvqp3xbnxcvc5cwg > https://lists.apache.org/thread/xrf3ft5b9jzbbtcwo2k8kqbk2fn69vyx > > It’s unclear to me how the incubator will further help with establishing > diversity - during our discussion, Justin Mclean mentioned he thought it > was a good idea to get out of incubation to drive further adoption and > growth (https://lists.apache.org/thread/9ghzpyqjcw7j2zbfq5nrx0ckq2tx761f). > > Hi, Given teh length of time you have been in the Incubator, I would > try to graduate, putting it off further, may mean it never happens. Kind > Regards, Justin > > I would be grateful for any advice to bring additional growth to the > project. Do you see any avenue inside the incubator that we should engage > with? Any specific items we could pursue, perhaps? > > Cheers, > > Antoine > > > > > On Dec 5, 2022, at 5:50 PM, larry mccay wrote: > > > > I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. > > There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. > > There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the > mentors > > and contributors on the private list. > > > > The nature of this project is that the consumption of these libraries are > > going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may grow > > larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. > > > > The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases > > within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, > etc. > > The long term success will require a larger active community but I don't > > think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have been > met. > > > > My 2 cents. > > > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang > wrote: > > > >> I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is relatively > high. > >> > >> [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor > >> > >> Willem Jiang > >> > >> Twitter: willemjiang > >> Weibo: 姜宁willem > >> > >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang wrote: > >>> > >>> I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of the > >>> mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. > >>> > >>> It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self, > >>> I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. > >>> > >>> [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > >>> [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org > >>> [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS > >>> > >>> Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > >>> > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were > received. > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result > was published [3]. > > I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache > Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. > > Please provide your vote accordingly: > [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache > >> Incubator. > [ ] +0 No opinion. > [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... > > Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for > >> at > least 72 hours.
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Here are the relevant messages Larry mentions: https://lists.apache.org/thread/rl93tocc2nt3b6lnwvqp3xbnxcvc5cwg https://lists.apache.org/thread/xrf3ft5b9jzbbtcwo2k8kqbk2fn69vyx It’s unclear to me how the incubator will further help with establishing diversity - during our discussion, Justin Mclean mentioned he thought it was a good idea to get out of incubation to drive further adoption and growth (https://lists.apache.org/thread/9ghzpyqjcw7j2zbfq5nrx0ckq2tx761f). > Hi, Given teh length of time you have been in the Incubator, I would try to > graduate, putting it off further, may mean it never happens. Kind Regards, > Justin I would be grateful for any advice to bring additional growth to the project. Do you see any avenue inside the incubator that we should engage with? Any specific items we could pursue, perhaps? Cheers, Antoine > On Dec 5, 2022, at 5:50 PM, larry mccay wrote: > > I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. > There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. > There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the mentors > and contributors on the private list. > > The nature of this project is that the consumption of these libraries are > going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may grow > larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. > > The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases > within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, etc. > The long term success will require a larger active community but I don't > think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have been met. > > My 2 cents. > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang wrote: > >> I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is relatively high. >> >> [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor >> >> Willem Jiang >> >> Twitter: willemjiang >> Weibo: 姜宁willem >> >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang wrote: >>> >>> I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of the >>> mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. >>> >>> It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self, >>> I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. >>> >>> [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors >>> [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org >>> [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS >>> >>> Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： >>> Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were received. After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result was published [3]. I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. Please provide your vote accordingly: [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache >> Incubator. [ ] +0 No opinion. [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for >> at least 72 hours. Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with the vote. *Community* ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along with mentors. ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of committers >> to 14 from 12 different organizations. ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. *Project* ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools to >> aid development of blockchain and other decentralized software in Java and other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, >> serialization and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography functions >> and primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is developed >> for JDK 11 or higher. ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 months. ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. ● The release cadence is about 3 months. *Brand, License, and Copyright* ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been reviewed and approved. ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all modules code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
I'm not so sure that I see this as a blocker for graduation. There was enough consensus and testing to spin and publish 14 releases. There has been healthy conversation about this very topic among the mentors and contributors on the private list. The nature of this project is that the consumption of these libraries are going to get less traction while in incubation and a community may grow larger as a TLP as confidence is instilled by that status. The Tuweni community has demonstrated the ability to publish releases within that Apache Way and guidelines, has welcomed new contributors, etc. The long term success will require a larger active community but I don't think that needs to block graduation as the incubation goals have been met. My 2 cents. On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 7:41 PM Willem Jiang wrote: > I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is relatively high. > > [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor > > Willem Jiang > > Twitter: willemjiang > Weibo: 姜宁willem > > On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang wrote: > > > > I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of the > > mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. > > > > It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self, > > I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. > > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > > [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org > > [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS > > > > Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > > > > > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > > > > > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > > > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were > > > received. > > > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we > > > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result > > > was published [3]. > > > > > > I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache > > > Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. > > > > > > Please provide your vote accordingly: > > > [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache > Incubator. > > > [ ] +0 No opinion. > > > [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... > > > > > > Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for > at > > > least 72 hours. > > > > > > Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with the > > > vote. > > > > > > *Community* > > > > > > ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along with > > > mentors. > > > ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of committers > to > > > 14 from 12 different > > > organizations. > > > ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. > > > ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. > > > > > > *Project* > > > > > > ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools to > aid > > > development of blockchain and other decentralized software in Java and > > > other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, > serialization > > > and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography functions > and > > > primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is developed > for > > > JDK 11 or higher. > > > ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] > > > ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 > > > months. > > > ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. > > > ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. > > > ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. > > > ● The release cadence is about 3 months. > > > > > > *Brand, License, and Copyright* > > > > > > ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been > > > reviewed and approved. > > > ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all modules > > > code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the > > > dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues [10]. > > > All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to date. > > > ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache Foundation > > > requirements [12]. > > > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5 > > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk > > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665 > > > [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org > > > [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html > > > [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases > > > [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls > > > [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues > > > [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167 > > > [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE > > > [11]
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
I agree with Gang Li. The Bus factor[1] of this project is relatively high. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor Willem Jiang Twitter: willemjiang Weibo: 姜宁willem On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:06 PM li gang wrote: > > I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of the > mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. > > It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self, > I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. > > [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors > [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org > [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS > > Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > > > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > > > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were > > received. > > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we > > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result > > was published [3]. > > > > I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache > > Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. > > > > Please provide your vote accordingly: > > [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache Incubator. > > [ ] +0 No opinion. > > [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... > > > > Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for at > > least 72 hours. > > > > Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with the > > vote. > > > > *Community* > > > > ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along with > > mentors. > > ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of committers to > > 14 from 12 different > > organizations. > > ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. > > ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. > > > > *Project* > > > > ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools to aid > > development of blockchain and other decentralized software in Java and > > other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, serialization > > and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography functions and > > primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is developed for > > JDK 11 or higher. > > ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] > > ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 > > months. > > ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. > > ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. > > ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. > > ● The release cadence is about 3 months. > > > > *Brand, License, and Copyright* > > > > ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been > > reviewed and approved. > > ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all modules > > code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the > > dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues [10]. > > All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to date. > > ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache Foundation > > requirements [12]. > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5 > > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk > > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665 > > [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org > > [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html > > [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases > > [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls > > [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues > > [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167 > > [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE > > [11] https://tuweni.apache.org > > [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > -- > > > -- > Best Regards > > DolphinScheduler PMC > Gang Li 李岗 > > lgcar...@apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
Re: [VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
I checked the contributions of the Tuweni project[1],the traffic of the mail list d...@tuweni.apache.org[2] and the KEYS[3]. It looks like the project is mainly maintained by Antoine Toulme self, I have a concern this is not comply with the diversity. [1]https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/graphs/contributors [2]https://lists.apache.org/list?d...@tuweni.apache.org [3]https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/tuweni/KEYS Antoine Toulme 于2022年12月5日周一 15:14写道： > Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, > > We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator > Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were > received. > After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we > have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result > was published [3]. > > I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache > Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. > > Please provide your vote accordingly: > [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache Incubator. > [ ] +0 No opinion. > [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... > > Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for at > least 72 hours. > > Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with the > vote. > > *Community* > > ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along with > mentors. > ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of committers to > 14 from 12 different > organizations. > ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. > ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. > > *Project* > > ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools to aid > development of blockchain and other decentralized software in Java and > other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, serialization > and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography functions and > primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is developed for > JDK 11 or higher. > ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] > ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 > months. > ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. > ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. > ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. > ● The release cadence is about 3 months. > > *Brand, License, and Copyright* > > ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been > reviewed and approved. > ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all modules > code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the > dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues [10]. > All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to date. > ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache Foundation > requirements [12]. > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5 > [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk > [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665 > [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org > [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html > [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases > [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls > [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues > [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167 > [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE > [11] https://tuweni.apache.org > [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > -- -- Best Regards DolphinScheduler PMC Gang Li 李岗 lgcar...@apache.org
[VOTE] Apache Tuweni graduation
Dear Apache Incubator Community and IPMC members, We discussed the graduation for Tuweni in the Apache Incubator Community [4], where no issues were raised and positive replies were received. After having the graduation discussion in the Tuweni community [1], we have passed the vote within Tuweni community [2] and the vote result was published [3]. I would like to start this voting thread to request graduating Apache Tuweni(incubating) from Apache Incubator as a Top Level Project. Please provide your vote accordingly: [ ] +1 Yes, I support Tuweni project to graduate from the Apache Incubator. [ ] +0 No opinion. [ ] -1 No, the Tuweni project is not ready to graduate, because... Thank you for participating in the vote. This vote will stay open for at least 72 hours. Here is an overview of the Apache Tuweni(incubating) to help with the vote. *Community* ● The PPMC is active, with PMC members voting for graduation along with mentors. ● 6 new committers were added, bringing the total number of committers to 14 from 12 different organizations. ● The number of contributors is now 25 and growing. ● The dev@Tuweni mailing list currently has 33 subscribers [4]. *Project* ● Apache Tuweni (incubating) is a set of libraries and other tools to aid development of blockchain and other decentralized software in Java and other JVM languages. It includes a low-level bytes library, serialization and deserialization codecs (e.g. RLP), various cryptography functions and primitives, and lots of other helpful utilities. Tuweni is developed for JDK 11 or higher. ● Project maturity model and incubation status is detailed in [5] ● Tuweni has been incubating [5] since 2019-02-25 for over 45 months. ● Tuweni community released a total of 14 Apache releases [6]. ● 331 pull requests created closed [7]. ● 76 issues created, and 46 issues closed [8]. ● The release cadence is about 3 months. *Brand, License, and Copyright* ● We submitted an application for the brand [9] and it has been reviewed and approved. ● Tuweni community maintains project code on GitHub and all modules code is under Apache 2.0 license. We have reviewed all the dependencies and ensured they do not bring any license issues [10]. All the status files, license headers, and copyright are up to date. ● Tuweni official website [11] is compliant with Apache Foundation requirements [12]. [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/z3flpmqcss21xc8vmtwqqfs961p4g9t5 [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/c04cmvfwh1wt2mxmc9zo89o6bnhm2xqk [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/8m4lq3k1v93m1k482syj7kn1ldb62665 [4] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?d...@tuweni.apache.org [5] https://incubator.apache.org/projects/tuweni.html [6] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/releases [7] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/pulls [8] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/issues [9] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PODLINGNAMESEARCH-167 [10] https://github.com/apache/incubator-tuweni/blob/main/LICENSE [11] https://tuweni.apache.org [12] https://whimsy.apache.org/pods/project/tuweni - To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
