Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

What if Java was GNU http://www.kaffe.org ? Jeff Schnitzer wrote: Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy? Try forking the Java codebase sometime. See how fast it takes Sun's lawyers to find you. Want to

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

This makes no sense to me. At least you might explain why you think this is so. Sun seems to me to be very different from Microsoft and was very different, good or bad, when the times were good. At 09:39 PM 12/13/2002 -0500, you wrote: Sun is exactly what Microsoft would be if it were short a

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

To suggest that Sun "[t]here's nothing 'open'" about Sun is not very insightful. Compare them to Microsoft, for example. You need to speak in ways that at least pass the laugh test. Sun deserves one hell of a lot of credit. At 02:44 AM 12/14/2002 +, you wrote: On 13/12/02 20:00 "Jeff Sch

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Sun is exactly what Microsoft would be if it were short a few billion dollars. To think otherwise is to significantly deceive ones self. -Andy Jeff Schnitzer wrote: On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote: support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nic

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

On 13/12/02 20:00 "Jeff Schnitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote: >> >> support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) >> > > Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the > antithesis of Ope

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

On Fri, Dec 13, 2002 at 06:42:36PM +0200, mohammad nabil wrote: > > support Sun, Open Source, and all good manufacturar in our nice world :) > Do you just not grasp that Sun's rigid control of Java is the antithesis of Open Source, and _especially_ the Apache philosophy? Try forking the Java co

[OT] Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Amen, Brother. Kill this thread! At 01:50 AM 12/14/2002 +1100, you wrote: Brian McCallister wrote: On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 09:18, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian so ppl, why don't you report bugs so they can make it stable?!!! Before you lecture, go look at the OpenOffice sources. It is amazing that the thing ev

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

I think this thread has lost its way :-) Conor you are right! Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian so ppl, why

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Brian McCallister wrote: On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 09:18, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

On Fri, 2002-12-13 at 09:18, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: > Because its more stable and runs faster under Linux than Star/OpenOffice? > Sadly, MS Word under CrossOver Office is more stable on my Linux workstation at work than OpenOffice. Hopefully this will change. -Brian -- To unsubscribe, e-mail:

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Excel open with 4 (yes four) workbooks at one time... -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:00 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Yeah... Maybe they can make it not crash for reasonable

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

-Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:57 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't really want or need to see Microsoft's code. What I would like to see is their fi

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

0 PM > To: Jakarta General List > Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > > Yeah... Maybe they can make it not crash for reasonable > sized files... > That > would be compliant.. > > -Andy > > Scott Sanders wrote: > > >Just like the news had Office 10,

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

drew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 6:00 PM > To: Jakarta General List > Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > > Yeah... Maybe they can make it not crash for reasonable > sized files... > That > would be compliant.. &g

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

java if what they see is the same as what they do :) Scott -Original Message- From: Dominique Devienne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:05 PM To: 'Jakarta General List' Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way Did you guys see in the news that Offi

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 3:05 PM > To: 'Jakarta General List' > Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > > Did you guys see in the news that Office 11 will have > standard compliant XML schemas for Word and Excel files??? --DD > >

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Did you guys see in the news that Office 11 will have standard compliant XML schemas for Word and Excel files??? --DD -Original Message- From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:57 PM To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

> cc: Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/10/02 08:26 AM

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Heck yeah! First task Get a copy of NANT that does more than crap itself under mono... Very very annoying... The POIFS port is fairly senseless (for anyone who is apt to point this out) on Windows as you could obviously use the MFC apis to get at it, however, I doubt these will ever be

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Thats cool, Makes the judge look like the kind of guy who only understands life by analogy with sport though. I suppose American judges aren't any less insane than ours then. ;-) d. > I particularly liked what this judge had to say: > > http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=Tech&cat=

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

From: "Scott Tavares" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: "Scott Tavares" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 05:38:02 -0500 I particularly liked what this j

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

I particularly liked what this judge had to say: http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=34&tmpl=fc&in=Tech&cat=Microsoft_Antitrus t_Trial -Scott- - Original Message - From: "Danny Angus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way That they can u

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

> I'd also like to see all that provided royalty free and unencumbered by > patents, submarine or otherwise. I haven't really flirted with the whole > C#/.NET thing but this seems to remain a question mark over Mono and even > the ECMA standardization. C# is just another language, without .NET

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Alejandro"To: 'Jakarta General List' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject:

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Hi Aaron, > -Mensaje original- > De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Asunto: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > > > Geir, > > I appreciate the intelligent response. I have a > question though, what > happens when you pour your heart an

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

cc: Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/1

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Micael, I am sorry that you think of yourself as one to be believed as dim-witted, because I know that I never inferred anything of the sort. Do you have some issues you would like to talk about?. Isn't it ironic how everyone continues bash MicroSoft because they ma

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

> is Redhat Linux Professional Server any different > from what you can download for free. If so how can they get away > with that? Funnily enough this is the second time I've been asked this in a month, and what I reckon is... It comes complete ready to install with tested kernel patches and a

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

l List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

and James did read them and feel a need to respond. So maybe they were worth it after all. Aaron micael ornet.com>cc: Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

cc: Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way 12/06/02 07:55

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Avalon has already ported some of their framework code to C# I believe. It is in CVS. - Dan Bob Johnson wrote: Thanks Andy for the links. The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

The first boot from a heroin dealer is always free. 8^) Chuck i take care :D also, if the community decided to make things in C# then you should give Python, Eifel, COBOL, FORTRAN, ASSEMBLY, and any programming language a try, and compile all programs into these languages too, heh we have ti

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

And if you're really interested in getting Java code running on .NET, a friend of mine in the Netherlands has a JDK running on .NET that will run James from Jakarta, and is now trying Eclipse -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Blog: http://www.freeroller.net/page/dion/Weblog Work:

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 08:57 AM, mohammad nabil wrote: From : "mohammad nabil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. > when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( From someone using a msn.com email account

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

arne Stroustrup > -Original Message- > From: micael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 4:56 PM > To: Jakarta General List > Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > > That is funny James. I really wonder if Aaron can truly > believe w

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

ed the source code to Windows 2000. -- James Mitchell > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 11:37 AM > To: Jakarta General List > Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > > > Ive been rea

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way [PATCH]

In true Apache fashion please consider this patch.. ;-) > -Original Message- > From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > the number 1 selling OS > In case anyone hasn't seen this yet, I've attached the source code to > Windows 2000. cvs -z9 diff -u win2000.h Index: win2000.h ==

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Jakarta is I think Java. But Apache is C. It would be nice to have a subproject on Apache that is C#. Not sure how PMC would like it. Honestly, mavnet.sf.net, and Mono could be good for Java. And it more clients go M$ away from $un, at least there is some cool software. CLR runs on BSD and OSX

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

ta General List > Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > > > Ive been reading this thread and I think it is a bit humorous > that some people think that companies that use the open > source groupies to generate thier income are not just as > minipulative as the propriet

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Ive been reading this thread and I think it is a bit humorous that some people think that companies that use the open source groupies to generate thier income are not just as minipulative as the proprietary ones. . M$ is not looking out for me, that I am sure about. . neither is Sun, nor Redhat, n

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

t;Jakarta General List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. > > > > You are saying that as if Sun does not. Any business will ALWAYS have >

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

riday, December 06, 2002 1:55 PM Subject: RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way > > M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. > > > > You are saying that as if Sun does not. Any business will ALWAYS have > financial motives, and Sun is near the top of the list, alo

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

> M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. > You are saying that as if Sun does not. Any business will ALWAYS have financial motives, and Sun is near the top of the list, along with M$. Scott -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: For additional co

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

M$ clearly has financial motives. What they are should be clarified. At 08:16 AM 12/6/2002 -0800, you wrote: it is for free Mr.Colombo Holmez :) why not?!! ;) There are other free email accounts (like yahoo! - running on FreeBSD) Don't you think that there is a correlation between the number

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

At 04:31 PM 12/6/2002 +, you wrote: > Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to > agree... And since > now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-) Me too. Not much else to do to protect oneself actually. I don't buy into all the talk that Sun is being stupid, si

RE: Sun Is Losing Its Way

> Being involved with the JCP quite closely, yes, I tend to > agree... And since > now C# is also available for OS/X, well, I'm game! :-) Me too, I may have to learn c# anyway to continue doing stuff for a client of mine who is abandoning OS in favour of M$*. Plus I'd be happy to help OS C# pro

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

it is for free Mr.Colombo Holmez :) why not?!! ;) There are other free email accounts (like yahoo! - running on FreeBSD) Don't you think that there is a correlation between the number of msn.com users and how much M$ charges for ads on its msn.com website, and reselling your address so that yo

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

From : "mohammad nabil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. > when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( From someone using a msn.com email account... -Vladimir it is for free Mr.Colombo Holmez :) why not?!! ;)

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

on 2002/12/6 2:07 AM, "Vladimir R. Bossicard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> From : "mohammad nabil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. >> when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( > >> From someone using a msn.

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

i disagree. C# is just a language, it is != .net. there are many pieces to the .net puzzle that you can be sure microsoft will never release to open source or a true standards body. If Apache commits to C#, it would do nothing but lend credibility to Micro$oft and .net in the eyes of uninfor

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

>From : "mohammad nabil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > i will leave Apache system if you used any Micro$oft products. > when you support Micro$oft you help in KILLING an open source project :'( >From someone using a msn.com email account... -Vladimir -- Vladimir R. Bossicard www.bossicard.com -- To

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

On 6/12/02 1:00 "James Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in >>> Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to >>> run on Mono/Linux/windows & .Net/Micorsoft ? >>> >> what this sppose to mean

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

> >The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in > >Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to > >run on Mono/Linux/windows & .Net/Micorsoft ? > > > what this sppose to mean > ppl, why want you to suppor

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

> To: Jakarta General List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 09:26:03 -0500 Thanks Andy for the links. The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may b

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Thanks Andy for the links. The Question I have for everybody here is does anyone have any interest in Porting any of the other jakarta projects to C# so that they may be able to run on Mono/Linux/windows & .Net/Micorsoft ? I have been experimenting with Mono/MCS & Microsoft/CSC for a few month

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

Thanks Jon. Here's the link. http://www.sys-con.com/java/article.cfm?id=1714 Its an okay article. Could be a bit more in-depth I suppose, but I imagine all the people who could write that are under gag order. And if you're really depressed... Here's a quick how to for doing C#/Mono by your

Re: Sun Is Losing Its Way

on 2002/12/4 4:52 PM, "Jon Scott Stevens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Great guest editorial article (no web link yet it seems) in the November > Java Developers Journal that I suggest you read. > > It briefly outlines how the JCP is screwing up the way that Sun manages > Java. > > -jon Here is