Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
2008-01-15 15:05 Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał(a): - what feature would you like most to be implemented in portage? (parallel builds, localization, revdep-rebuild integration, overlay sync support, gpg verification support, support for non-ebuild repositories, better query tools, interactive user interface) Other features: USE flag dependencies, repository dependencies.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:09:20 +0100 Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008-01-15 15:05 Marius Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] napisał(a): - what feature would you like most to be implemented in portage? (parallel builds, localization, revdep-rebuild integration, overlay sync support, gpg verification support, support for non-ebuild repositories, better query tools, interactive user interface) Other features: USE flag dependencies, repository dependencies. I've not listed those (and a few others where we know that they are critical) on purpose. Marius -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Jan 15, 2008 4:05 AM, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was really speaking mostly of the people who dislike the *idea* of an Installer for Gentoo, and then go and bash it as much as they can without providing any real evidence or reasons, except for the old faithful it's against the spirit of Gentoo reason, which is a complete fallacy. Again, Gentoo is about empowering the users to make their own decisions. No, I won't say Gentoo is about choice, because that is *STUPID* in that it gives people an excuse to argue about even the biggest piece of junk being added to our tree or supported, as if we have to, to give them the choice. Instead, I prefer the concept of empowering the user to make their own choices, where they can choose to add anything that they want in their personal overlay, as we have given them the tools to do so. Now, if a user wants to use an Installer and someone wants to write the code, who are you (or I) to say that they are in the wrong? After all, isn't it that idea of empowering the user *really* the spirit of Gentoo? I think so. I am very pleased to hear from someone who knows the basis of any opened community rules :) To deal with the top-priority issues and drive Gentoo to the right direction, there is the council in charge of helping devs to go where it needs. But restraining users -or devs- projects is not the right way. Gal' -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Monday 14 January 2008, likewhoa wrote: On Jan 15, 2008 12:16 AM, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 22:53 +, likewhoa wrote: Which livecd(s) do they prefer? Gentoo livecd-2007.0 Sabayon livecd Sysresccd Knoppix My own Other Be sure to list the Minimal CD and the Universal CD, as well as the LiveCD, and also list the LiveDVD. We'll have to relate this data to the architecture used when we try to make anything useful out of it, but it'll be more accurate, as I definitely want to know *which* Gentoo media people are using. I would also add something like an older Gentoo CD to the mix. Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree? Yes No Why not Never! in unofficial overlay Dunno Is this something that we really even want to ask? I mean, if we're all about trying to provide the best user experience, then binary packages are almost a requirement, especially with binary packages that were originally targeted at specific binary distributions. I tend to see this as one of those religious issues that is best left alone, like emacs versus vi. Yea commercial packages should maybe be part of overlays.gentoo.org so that the tree can stay clean from these types of packages. But I agree if it's decided not to included in the user survey. i dont see any basis for keeping the tree clean other than personal opinions. if you dont want these types of packages, then dont emerge them. there are people who want them, there are people who need them, there are people who hate them, whatever. the package manager is the tool for the end user to decide what to do with their system. anything else is not the way to go. to borrow a few flavor words from Chris, here in Gentoo land we empower the users, we do not force some arbitrary religious thinking on them. we are not the FSF. if a user does not agree with this, then they're certainly free to choose another distribution, and we'll wish them the best of luck (the FSF does have a list of recommended distributions -- Gentoo of course does not appear on that list because our mind set does not match theirs). -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 04:33:48 -0800 Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. For style of questions, multiple choice (both pick-one and pick-many) or simple integers would be best. However some freeform questions are probably going to end up in there anyway. 'Prefer not to answer' and 'I don't know' should be available in most questions. I don't have the original questions on hand right now (but i'm trying to get them), so used some classical census questions. Some of the ones I threw in are just what came to mind, I'd love to hear more questions and more sections. In the style of census, maybe offering a short form and a long form questionnaire would be useful too? Basic demographics - a bunch of this should probably be optional but recommended - Gender (M, F, and the various other forms here) - Year of birth - # of children?? - How many years have you been using computers? Sociocultural information (again, optional stuff): - Location (country, and free-form city) - Level of education? - Job? (type coding this one is hard, and I'd prefer not to have it) - Income level Such questions usually are a reason to not complete a survey for me, and I don't see how they are relevant to us (except for maybe location). - Do you share your portage tree between systems - Do you share your distfiles between systems - Do you share your binpkgs between systems Those should all be multiple choice or at least be more explicit due to multiple meanings of share (and in case of binpkgs a I don't use binpkgs option should be present as well in some way) Portage-related questions: (portage team, maybe you can help here?) (just brainstorming here) - what feature would you like most to be implemented in portage? (parallel builds, localization, revdep-rebuild integration, overlay sync support, gpg verification support, support for non-ebuild repositories, better query tools, interactive user interface) - do you think that portage has improved significantly over the last 12 months? - how happy are you with portage in general (scale 1-10)? - how happy are you with portage documentation (manpages, official online docs, ...)? - do you use pkgcore/paludis in addition/in place of portage on Gentoo (yes/no/don't know what pkgcore/paludis is)? - would you be in favor of an automated feedback system to report successful/failed package installations for statistical purposes (yes/opt-out/opt-in/no)? - how important is backward compability in the user interface for you (e.g. names of commandline options, output format)? Mind that the survey shouldn't contain too many questions, or many people won't complete it IMHO. I guess 10-30 questions might be the sweet spot, if we have much more we should run multiple surveys for specific topics spread over time. Also can we take measures that such general surveys are repeated at regular intervals (once per year/6 months), as a single survey is a nice snapshot, but the really interesting thing are the trends evolving over time. Marius -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. For style of questions, multiple choice (both pick-one and pick-many) or simple integers would be best. However some freeform questions are probably going to end up in there anyway. 'Prefer not to answer' and 'I don't know' should be available in most questions. I don't have the original questions on hand right now (but i'm trying to get them), so used some classical census questions. Some of the ones I threw in are just what came to mind, I'd love to hear more questions and more sections. In the style of census, maybe offering a short form and a long form questionnaire would be useful too? Basic demographics - a bunch of this should probably be optional but recommended - Gender (M, F, and the various other forms here) - Year of birth - # of children?? - How many years have you been using computers? Sociocultural information (again, optional stuff): - Location (country, and free-form city) - Level of education? - Job? (type coding this one is hard, and I'd prefer not to have it) - Income level Computer-general questions: - Do you program? - Checkboxes for some programming languages Usage of Gentoo: - Home - School - Work - Other (usage spawns the following set of questions) Home/School/Work/Other systems: - # of server/desktop/laptop/embedded systems? - Language of system - What arches, stable/testing keywords? - Time spent weekly administering your $TYPE systems - Sync frequency - Do you share your portage tree between systems - Do you share your distfiles between systems - Do you share your binpkgs between systems - Window Manager - Kernel - System specs (maybe follow the Value surveys for some questions) - Distro breakdowns (folks that don't have exclusively Gentoo systems) - Ask about existence and usage of digital camera, web cam, media player, printer, scanner etc with Gentoo (need a list, maybe see the Linux Foundation survey) (Work specific) - How many other users of Gentoo does your organization have? - Name of organization (coupled with the previous question to weed out dupes) Release-related questions: - Should CD media be released at a different rate than stage tarballs? - Desired release frequency for minimal/livecd/GRP/stages (annual, bi-annual, quarterly, monthly, weekly?) - Do you use the installer or install by hand? (need an other field here) - How often do you use the media? - How often do you install Gentoo (using the stage tarballs or the installer)? - Do you use GRP? - Would you like to use GRP in future? - Binhost questions maybe? - Do you use the portage snapshot associated with the release or the latest available snapshot or other? - Do you use a Gentoo derivative? (give a list with an other option) Portage-related questions: (portage team, maybe you can help here?) Distro-related questions (these two are from the original survey, but i added more choices): - Why choose Gentoo - package manager - package repository - customization - optimization - community - free as in beer - free as in speech - other (fill-in) - Distro needs (with a justification text area) - Installer progress - Enterprise-level systems (slow-moving tree) - Embedded linux systems - More/less packages - Hardware support -- Robin Hugh Johnson Gentoo Linux Developer Infra Guy E-Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85 pgp1cZZ5x4VNd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
Robin H. Johnson a écrit : Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. [snip] Your survey summed up pretty well all the questions we came up with this morning. Thanks for putting it all in ink :) Cheers, Rémi -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Jan 14, 2008 1:33 PM, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. An interesting question would be Which package manager do you use?. -- Santiago M. Mola Jabber ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Monday, 14. January 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote: Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. For style of questions, multiple choice (both pick-one and pick-many) or simple integers would be best. However some freeform questions are probably going to end up in there anyway. 'Prefer not to answer' and 'I don't know' should be available in most questions. I don't have the original questions on hand right now (but i'm trying to get them), so used some classical census questions. Some of the ones I threw in are just what came to mind, I'd love to hear more questions and more sections. Just some ideas: Usage of Gentoo Services (could be differentiated between read only and have an account) - Forums - Bugzilla - Planet Larry - Mailing Lists (more differentiated) (for read-only) - Planet Gentoo - Gentoo *ly Newsletter - Handbook - Other Docs - Security Announcements (GLSA) -- maybe: If so, how? (Forums, Website, RSS, Announce List, glsa-check) - External Gentoo-related sites: - Gentoo-Wiki.com - ...? * Do you use overlays? (If so, which?) Robert signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
Santiago M. Mola wrote: On Jan 14, 2008 1:33 PM, Robin H. Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. An interesting question would be Which package manager do you use?. Along those lines I'd be curious as to what people are using to handle etc-update-like tasks. Knowing what our users use tells us what we should or shouldn't bother supporting. -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 04:33 -0800, Robin H. Johnson wrote: Release-related questions: - Should CD media be released at a different rate than stage tarballs? - Desired release frequency for minimal/livecd/GRP/stages (annual, bi-annual, quarterly, monthly, weekly?) - Do you use the installer or install by hand? (need an other field here) This question would be interesting, though a little moot. With future releases, we're making the Installer binary-only. The reason is simple, there are too many possible failure opportunities in the live tree or when building from source. The number of installer bugs that are simply compilation bugs (many of which are already fixed in newer versions/revisions in the tree) is overwhelming compared to the actual number of bugs in the Installer. By making it binary only, we only allow the Installer to use known-good input for producing a user's system. All networked installs will be manual, and will follow the Handbook. I've thought of producing a simple default source-based install script that allows someone to still use a source-based and current installation, without having to type in a bunch of commands. I don't know how well this would be received, but it could be something that you could ask here. - How often do you use the media? Which media do you use? (minimal, universal, livecd, livedvd) Which version do you use? (So many people tell me things like, I still use a $version CD, so I think it would be useful...) - How often do you install Gentoo (using the stage tarballs or the installer)? - Do you use GRP? - Would you like to use GRP in future? - Binhost questions maybe? - Do you use the portage snapshot associated with the release or the latest available snapshot or other? - Do you use a Gentoo derivative? (give a list with an other option) What features do you think are lacking on Gentoo install media? (free form) -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Games Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On 04:33 Mon 14 Jan , Robin H. Johnson wrote: Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. For style of questions, multiple choice (both pick-one and pick-many) or simple integers would be best. However some freeform questions are probably going to end up in there anyway. 'Prefer not to answer' and 'I don't know' should be available in most questions. A lot of the suggested questions are hard facts. Some of them will indicate usage to suggest where we might focus, but they mostly won't indicate opinions. This means, for example, that people might say they're using Gentoo for a server but they won't be able to express how well it works. I would like to see a lot more ratings and scales, for example: How well does Gentoo as a whole meet your needs? Perfectly Extremely well Fairly well Not that well Poorly Rate the following, on a 1-10 scale (or a perfect to poor scale) Gentoo's official documentation Unofficial documentation (forums, wiki, etc) Forums Wiki Are you able to find solutions for Gentoo-related issues on Google or other search engines? Always Usually Sometimes Rarely Never Robert Buchholz said we should ask about services usage. I also think we should ask people to rate those services. Other questions, that might address issues like our future goals as a distribution and will probably involve open-ended portions? What do you think of Gentoo's future? It looks bright to I'm installing Ubuntu right now What is Gentoo best at right now? What should Gentoo be best at? What is Gentoo worst at right now? What should Gentoo stop focusing on? What hurts Gentoo the most? Thanks, Donnie -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey; releng related
If the topic of frequent releases is put onto the survey, I would like to know what users anticipate as part of the new releases because new releases are based on the tree itself. It has been a while since I have used a binary distribution, but when I did, I looked forward to new releases because new versions of X and Y were generally tied to it; which is not usually the case with Gentoo except where profiles dictate that. Is the motivation for more releases in part the expectation of more features? If so, also collecting their suggestions for a features list would be helpful. Also helpful would be making sure the user input on releases reflected all archs he/she uses. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Scanned with Copfilter Version 0.84beta3a (ProxSMTP 1.6) AntiVirus: ClamAV 0.91.2/5483 - Mon Jan 14 08:45:01 2008 by Markus Madlener @ http://www.copfilter.org -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
Here are some questions I would like answered. Do you use gentoo at home or office? Home Office Both I don't use gentoo What percentage of your business is running gentoo? 10% 25% 50% 75% 100% none of the above or 0% How often would you like releases? every six months every 3 months once a year whenever Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one provided? Kde Xfce Fluxbox E16 Fvwm Gnome Other How often do you emerge --sync? every day once a week once a month every six months none of the above How often do you update your system world packages? every day once a week once a month every six months none of the above How often do you housekeeping on your system i.e revdep-rebuild,--deepcleanetc? every day once a week once a month every six months none of the above Who would you recommend gentoo to? Friend Colleague Business partner Clients Everybody! Nobody Do you consider yourself to be a? Advance Gentoo user. Novice Intermediate Noob Troll None of the above What GPU are you using with Gentoo? ATI Nvidia Other What aspect of gentoo would you like see improved? Multimedia Graphics Video Security Network Services http://gentoo-wiki.com/Index:HOWTO#Networks_.26_Services Gaming Emulators Kernel Developer Community Other What platform do you run gentoo on? AMD64 X86 Sparc ARM Alpha Hppa Ia64 Mips PPC Do you dual-boot if so with what OS? Windows XP Windows 98 Windows 2000 Windows NT BSD Unix OSX Other How did you come across gentoo? Friend told me Business collegue Distrowatch Forums Article Little blue bird told me Other Do they use grp packages? Yes No What is grp? Sometimes Never Which livecd(s) do they prefer? Gentoo livecd-2007.0 Sabayon livecd Sysresccd Knoppix My own Other Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree? Yes No Why not Never! in unofficial overlay Dunno When did you start using gentoo? 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 Yesterday Just Now How often should GWN be updated? once a week everyday every month every six months what is GWN? Should gentoo have it's own WIKI? Yes No Merge gentoo-wiki instead. Which package manager are you currently testing? Paludis Pkgcore Which package manager are you using instead of portage? Paludis Pkgcore I 3 Portage!!! Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)? Yes No Never heard of it How well in-touch do you think dev's are with users? Very Good Not so Good Not at all No connection None of the above Well that's all the questions I can come up with and that others recommended, they are not sorted in any particular way either. I hope this helps and I would appreciate respectable feedback and criticism instead of flames and bighead comments. Thank you. Fernando a.k.a likewhoa 9188B8D8
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 likewhoa wrote: Here are some questions I would like answered. Do you use gentoo at home or office? Home Office Both I don't use gentoo What percentage of your business is running gentoo? 10% 25% 50% 75% 100% none of the above or 0% How often would you like releases? every six months every 3 months once a year whenever Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one provided? Kde Xfce Fluxbox E16 Fvwm Gnome Other How often do you emerge --sync? every day once a week once a month every six months none of the above How often do you update your system world packages? every day once a week once a month every six months none of the above How often do you housekeeping on your system i.e revdep-rebuild,-- deepclean etc? every day once a week once a month every six months none of the above Who would you recommend gentoo to? Friend Colleague Business partner Clients Everybody! Nobody Do you consider yourself to be a? Advance Gentoo user. Novice Intermediate Noob Troll None of the above What GPU are you using with Gentoo? ATI Nvidia Other What aspect of gentoo would you like see improved? Multimedia Graphics Video Security Network Services http://gentoo-wiki.com/Index:HOWTO#Networks_.26_Services Gaming Emulators Kernel Developer Community Other What platform do you run gentoo on? AMD64 X86 Sparc ARM Alpha Hppa Ia64 Mips PPC Do you dual-boot if so with what OS? Windows XP Windows 98 Windows 2000 Windows NT BSD Unix OSX Other How did you come across gentoo? Friend told me Business collegue Distrowatch Forums Article Little blue bird told me Other Do they use grp packages? Yes No What is grp? Sometimes Never Which livecd(s) do they prefer? Gentoo livecd-2007.0 Sabayon livecd Sysresccd Knoppix My own Other Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree? Yes No Why not Never! in unofficial overlay Dunno When did you start using gentoo? 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 Yesterday Just Now How often should GWN be updated? once a week everyday every month every six months what is GWN? Should gentoo have it's own WIKI? Yes No Merge gentoo-wiki instead. Which package manager are you currently testing? Paludis Pkgcore Which package manager are you using instead of portage? Paludis Pkgcore I 3 Portage!!! Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)? Yes No Never heard of it How well in-touch do you think dev's are with users? Very Good Not so Good Not at all No connection None of the above Well that's all the questions I can come up with and that others recommended, they are not sorted in any particular way either. I hope this helps and I would appreciate respectable feedback and criticism instead of flames and bighead comments. Thank you. Fernando a.k.a likewhoa 9188B8D8 Here's another: How often do you get asked not to post in HTML in mailing lists because some people happenened to use clients that don't like HTML? Once a day Once every 3 days Once a week Once a month Once a year Fxxk others, I don't give a s**t, I post HTML because I can, I won't give a rat's a** whether you can read it. What is html? - -- Joe - -- A computer scientist is someone who, when told go to hell, considers the go to harmful rather than the destination. GnuPG Key: 0xB14661D9 GnuPG FP: DE08 57AE A1AD 620C 02AA CCDD 611B 63AC B146 61D9 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHi+sVYRtjrLFGYdkRAo44AJ91C/aAffakO7B2Ygu0+mtELVzBvgCg10oG 7ahYyIHjchLKvNnClFxVinA= =Sa2C -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Monday 14 January 2008, Robin H. Johnson wrote: Ok, so per the one discussion in #-dev this evening, I'm looking for questions to put on a new user survey. *cough* -project *cough* -mike signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 22:53 +, likewhoa wrote: Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one provided? Kde Xfce Fluxbox E16 Fvwm Gnome Other Can I suggest that we not ask anything that we likely won't change? I have a strong feeling that KDE would win out here, but there's *NO WAY* that we can fit KDE on a LiveCD with the other stuff. When we were planning 2007.1, we had decided to switch to Xfce, simply because of the space savings. Cramming a lot of useful stuff onto 700MB is *not* an easy task. Space is our biggest enemy here. Were we to drop the LiveCD fully in favor of the LiveDVD, then I could see this as (somewhat) valid, as all of those Window Managers/Desktop Environments are already shipped on the LiveDVD (except FVWM). I'm not too interested in people's opinions for the defaults on a media set that includes them all and each is only a click or two away, though, as it doesn't really add anything to what we provide. If it weren't for the size constraints, I'd love to know what people prefer on the CD, so I don't want anyone to think that we don't care. We do. We just are limited by a hard size limit than we cannot do anything about and have to act accordingly. Do they use grp packages? Yes No What is grp? Sometimes Never Definitely word this in a manner so people know what you're referring to. I would say something more along the lines of Do you use the Installer in Networkless mode or GRP packages when installing your system? Which livecd(s) do they prefer? Gentoo livecd-2007.0 Sabayon livecd Sysresccd Knoppix My own Other Be sure to list the Minimal CD and the Universal CD, as well as the LiveCD, and also list the LiveDVD. We'll have to relate this data to the architecture used when we try to make anything useful out of it, but it'll be more accurate, as I definitely want to know *which* Gentoo media people are using. I would also add something like an older Gentoo CD to the mix. Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree? Yes No Why not Never! in unofficial overlay Dunno Is this something that we really even want to ask? I mean, if we're all about trying to provide the best user experience, then binary packages are almost a requirement, especially with binary packages that were originally targeted at specific binary distributions. I tend to see this as one of those religious issues that is best left alone, like emacs versus vi. How often should GWN be updated? once a week everyday every month every six months what is GWN? Again, you're asking something that I don't think that we should be asking. We couldn't get content even though we begged and pleaded for it. No offense meant to anyone, but I don't care if people want a daily newsletter. If we cannot get enough content, we cannot get enough content. No survey is going to change that, and asking a question like this gives the impression that the user's opinion will make a difference, when it likely will not. I'd much rather not ask questions that the users are going to feel like they were ignored than ask them and not make any changes based on the answers. Of course, if you're volunteering to pick up the slack and write any necessary articles to make it happen at the interval decided by our users, well, I completely welcome it, then... ;] Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)? Yes No Never heard of it I'd like to see the answers to this one, but I have a feeling that everybody has a love/hate relationship with this. They either love it, or they hate it. I also tend to think that *many* people have an opinion on the Installer without ever even using it. As such, I don't think that we'd get any usable results out of this, but it'll still be fun to ask. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Games Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Jan 15, 2008 12:16 AM, Chris Gianelloni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 22:53 +, likewhoa wrote: Which DE/WM would you prefer for the gentoo livecd instead of the one provided? Kde Xfce Fluxbox E16 Fvwm Gnome Other Can I suggest that we not ask anything that we likely won't change? I have a strong feeling that KDE would win out here, but there's *NO WAY* that we can fit KDE on a LiveCD with the other stuff. When we were planning 2007.1, we had decided to switch to Xfce, simply because of the space savings. Cramming a lot of useful stuff onto 700MB is *not* an easy task. Space is our biggest enemy here. Were we to drop the LiveCD fully in favor of the LiveDVD, then I could see this as (somewhat) valid, as all of those Window Managers/Desktop Environments are already shipped on the LiveDVD (except FVWM). I'm not too interested in people's opinions for the defaults on a media set that includes them all and each is only a click or two away, though, as it doesn't really add anything to what we provide. If it weren't for the size constraints, I'd love to know what people prefer on the CD, so I don't want anyone to think that we don't care. We do. We just are limited by a hard size limit than we cannot do anything about and have to act accordingly. I totally agree with you on that and when I asked that question I only wanted to see what people prefer and I don't expect users to demand a change based on the survey question responce. I for one love to have the livecd run on a WM vs a DE, but again I start the livecd with 'gentoo nox' most times. Maybe the livecd should run a WM and the liveDVD can run the rest this would free up the livecd and give it more room for other packages that are missing on the livecd, these packages could be stuff like wifi tools,system rescue tools, benchmark etc. Do they use grp packages? Yes No What is grp? Sometimes Never Definitely word this in a manner so people know what you're referring to. I would say something more along the lines of Do you use the Installer in Networkless mode or GRP packages when installing your system? Good way to put it, I was gonna add GRP - Gentoo Release Packages myself. Which livecd(s) do they prefer? Gentoo livecd-2007.0 Sabayon livecd Sysresccd Knoppix My own Other Be sure to list the Minimal CD and the Universal CD, as well as the LiveCD, and also list the LiveDVD. We'll have to relate this data to the architecture used when we try to make anything useful out of it, but it'll be more accurate, as I definitely want to know *which* Gentoo media people are using. I would also add something like an older Gentoo CD to the mix. Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree? Yes No Why not Never! in unofficial overlay Dunno Is this something that we really even want to ask? I mean, if we're all about trying to provide the best user experience, then binary packages are almost a requirement, especially with binary packages that were originally targeted at specific binary distributions. I tend to see this as one of those religious issues that is best left alone, like emacs versus vi. Yea commercial packages should maybe be part of overlays.gentoo.org so that the tree can stay clean from these types of packages. But I agree if it's decided not to included in the user survey. How often should GWN be updated? once a week everyday every month every six months what is GWN? Again, you're asking something that I don't think that we should be asking. We couldn't get content even though we begged and pleaded for it. No offense meant to anyone, but I don't care if people want a daily newsletter. If we cannot get enough content, we cannot get enough content. No survey is going to change that, and asking a question like this gives the impression that the user's opinion will make a difference, when it likely will not. I'd much rather not ask questions that the users are going to feel like they were ignored than ask them and not make any changes based on the answers. Of course, if you're volunteering to pick up the slack and write any necessary articles to make it happen at the interval decided by our users, well, I completely welcome it, then... ;] Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)? Yes No Never heard of it I'd like to see the answers to this one, but I have a feeling that everybody has a love/hate relationship with this. They either love it, or they hate it. I also tend to think that *many* people have an opinion on the Installer without ever even using it. As such, I don't think that we'd get any usable results out of this, but it'll still be fun to ask. I for one never used it so I can't really love or hate it but from what people who have used it tells me to stay away from it because I'll eventually hate it.
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey; releng related
On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 16:30 -0600, Brent Baude wrote: If the topic of frequent releases is put onto the survey, I would like to know what users anticipate as part of the new releases because new releases are based on the tree itself. It has been a while since I have used a binary distribution, but when I did, I looked forward to new releases because new versions of X and Y were generally tied to it; which is not usually the case with Gentoo except where profiles dictate that. Is the motivation for more releases in part the expectation of more features? If so, also collecting their suggestions for a features list would be helpful. There is a thread on gentoo-user currently. It started out about the GWN, but it's been hijacked to talk about the install CD. If you want to know what / why users want the install CD, then read some of the comments from here on: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.user/192742 -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Bob Barker: Which one of these lovely womanoids will take home atomic tiara? -- gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-dev] Seeking questions for a user survey
On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 00:34 +, likewhoa wrote: Do you think commercial packages should be part of the main tree? Yes No Why not Never! in unofficial overlay Dunno Is this something that we really even want to ask? I mean, if we're all about trying to provide the best user experience, then binary packages are almost a requirement, especially with binary packages that were originally targeted at specific binary distributions. I tend to see this as one of those religious issues that is best left alone, like emacs versus vi. Yea commercial packages should maybe be part of overlays.gentoo.org so that the tree can stay clean from these types of packages. But I agree if it's decided not to included in the user survey. I look at it very differently. One of the main advantages to Gentoo is being source-based. This allows us to ship packages in our repository for binary and commercial packages that would otherwise be impossible in a binary distribution. Remember, we don't actually ship the commercial software. We ship a bash script (essentially) that tells how to install the software. As much as I like to appeal to zealots (hahaha, right), I don't consider shipping a bash script telling how to install a product to be *anything* like shipping said product, endorsing it, or anything else license zealots will try to spout to justify the removal of GPL-2 code from our repository. Many people don't consider overlays, even Gentoo-run ones, to be of sufficient quality/support/whatever to be used on production systems. These are the same systems and people that would most likely utilize these commercial ebuilds. Basically, it is removing the *option* to install these packages from the people who would like to use them for the sake of the people who *REFUSE* to use the packages and insist on their removal from the tree simply because they don't like the license under which is was released. I'm sorry, but if that's not against the idea of a free and open community, I don't know what is. You have the right to chose what licenses you wish to support and use software which agrees with your ideals, but that doesn't give you the right to *DENY* others to do the same. Sorry, I just don't see it as a valid question, at all. Do you like the Gentoo Linux Installer (GLI)? Yes No Never heard of it I'd like to see the answers to this one, but I have a feeling that everybody has a love/hate relationship with this. They either love it, or they hate it. I also tend to think that *many* people have an opinion on the Installer without ever even using it. As such, I don't think that we'd get any usable results out of this, but it'll still be fun to ask. I for one never used it so I can't really love or hate it but from what people who have used it tells me to stay away from it because I'll eventually hate it. Well, anybody who dislikes it because of bugs or a bad experience, I can completely understand. I was really speaking mostly of the people who dislike the *idea* of an Installer for Gentoo, and then go and bash it as much as they can without providing any real evidence or reasons, except for the old faithful it's against the spirit of Gentoo reason, which is a complete fallacy. Again, Gentoo is about empowering the users to make their own decisions. No, I won't say Gentoo is about choice, because that is *STUPID* in that it gives people an excuse to argue about even the biggest piece of junk being added to our tree or supported, as if we have to, to give them the choice. Instead, I prefer the concept of empowering the user to make their own choices, where they can choose to add anything that they want in their personal overlay, as we have given them the tools to do so. Now, if a user wants to use an Installer and someone wants to write the code, who are you (or I) to say that they are in the wrong? After all, isn't it that idea of empowering the user *really* the spirit of Gentoo? I think so. Thanks for the great feedback Chris Gianelloni You're totally welcome. Take what I've said here as my own opinion, of course. Fernando -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering Strategic Lead Games Developer signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
