Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Dale
Alec Warner wrote: On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Ben de Grootyng...@gentoo.org wrote: On 18 March 2010 20:24, Fabian Groffengrob...@gentoo.org wrote: On 18-03-2010 20:20:02 +0100, Thomas Sachau wrote: There are 2 ways to fix this issue: -fix the dependency string for

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Zac Medico
On 03/19/2010 12:15 AM, Dale wrote: I think this is because people that use Gentoo do so because it doesn't install things they don't need. Why install a package that is used by no other package? It's pointless. I would also add, if it gets installed and is used by no other package,

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:17:17 +0100 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: Because it is extremely useless to the great majority of users. Most packages in the tree are useless to the great majority of users. -- Ciaran McCreesh signature.asc Description: PGP signature

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Dale
Zac Medico wrote: On 03/19/2010 12:15 AM, Dale wrote: I think this is because people that use Gentoo do so because it doesn't install things they don't need. Why install a package that is used by no other package? It's pointless. I would also add, if it gets installed and is used by no

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:54:28 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:17:17 +0100 Ben de Grootyng...@gentoo.org wrote: Because it is extremely useless to the great majority of users. Most packages in the tree are useless to the

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Dale
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:54:28 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:17:17 +0100 Ben de Grootyng...@gentoo.org wrote: Because it is extremely useless to the great majority of users. Most

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Alistair Bush
Zac Medico wrote: I think what most people want is for portage not to pull in a package that nothing uses. I'm not a dev nor a programmer but I have yet to see any good reason for installing something that is not being used. It's not being tested to see if it is stable. It would have to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2010-03-19 10:23:31 Dale napisał(a): Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:54:28 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:17:17 +0100 Ben de Grootyng...@gentoo.org wrote: Because it is extremely useless to

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Petteri Räty
On 19.3.2010 11.35, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: I can add python2 USE flag (enabled by default) to some versions of dev-lang/python. With USE=-python2, Python 2 will not be required and Python 3 will be set as main active version of Python. You should move to the same

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Brian Harring
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 04:23:31AM -0500, Dale wrote: OK. Right now, as you type this, what package depends on python-3 and won't work with python-2? Anything at all? If it is nothing, then why install it? To some degree it's the users choice which python version they choose to settle

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2010-03-19 10:39:07 Petteri Räty napisał(a): On 19.3.2010 11.35, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: I can add python2 USE flag (enabled by default) to some versions of dev-lang/python. With USE=-python2, Python 2 will not be required and Python 3 will be set as main active

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Brian Harring
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:55:03AM +0100, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-19 10:39:07 Petteri Räty napisał(a): On 19.3.2010 11.35, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: I can add python2 USE flag (enabled by default) to some versions of dev-lang/python.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:56:08 -0700 Brian Harring ferri...@gmail.com wrote: We are waiting on ABI dependencies (and extended support for multiple ABIs in package manager), which will provide some needed functionality. You can do it now w/out waiting on ABI dependencies- I'm not saying

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Zac Medico
On 03/19/2010 01:52 AM, Dale wrote: I think what most people want is for portage not to pull in a package that nothing uses. I'm not a dev nor a programmer but I have yet to see any good reason for installing something that is not being used. It's not being tested to see if it is stable. It

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Dale
Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:23:31 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: It's being installed because it's a dependency of something you use. Replace Python with any other library and we wouldn't be having this discussion. OK. Right now, as you type this, what

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Brian Harring
On Fri, Mar 19, 2010 at 10:01:05AM +, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:56:08 -0700 Brian Harring ferri...@gmail.com wrote: We are waiting on ABI dependencies (and extended support for multiple ABIs in package manager), which will provide some needed functionality.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2010-03-19 11:13:48 Dale napisał(a): Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:23:31 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: It's being installed because it's a dependency of something you use. Replace Python with any other library and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Dale
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-19 11:13:48 Dale napisał(a): Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:23:31 -0500 Dalerdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: It's being installed because it's a dependency of something you use. Replace Python with any other

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Dale
Alistair Bush wrote: Zac Medico wrote: I think what most people want is for portage not to pull in a package that nothing uses. I'm not a dev nor a programmer but I have yet to see any good reason for installing something that is not being used. It's not being tested to see if it is stable.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-19 Thread Doktor Notor
On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:02:44 -0500 Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Because in my opinion, portage is the first thing in line to keep a system sane. Installing packages that are not needed means that portage fails on that. So in your example, portage fails to do its due diligence and it

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Fabian Groffen
On 18-03-2010 20:20:02 +0100, Thomas Sachau wrote: There are 2 ways to fix this issue: -fix the dependency string for those packages (including the lines in distutils.eclass) or (since Arfrever claims current portage behaviour is wrong) -change portage behaviour to be satisfied with a

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:20:02 +0100 Thomas Sachau to...@gentoo.org wrote: -change portage behaviour to be satisfied with a python slot and to not require other slots. But then you'll never get new slots for the majority of dependencies where you do usually want the newest version. If Portage

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2010-03-18 20:20:02 Thomas Sachau napisał(a): Currently, some packages just depend on dev-lang/python. Arfrever claims it to be right It's correct only for packages (e.g. dev-python/setuptools), which support all versions of Python (including Python 3). Arfrever claims current portage

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Thomas Sachau
On 03/18/2010 08:28 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:20:02 +0100 Thomas Sachau to...@gentoo.org wrote: -change portage behaviour to be satisfied with a python slot and to not require other slots. But then you'll never get new slots for the majority of dependencies where

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Thomas Sachau
On 03/18/2010 08:33 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-18 20:20:02 Thomas Sachau napisał(a): Currently, some packages just depend on dev-lang/python. Arfrever claims it to be right It's correct only for packages (e.g. dev-python/setuptools), which support all versions

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
2010-03-18 20:47:35 Thomas Sachau napisał(a): On 03/18/2010 08:33 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-18 20:20:02 Thomas Sachau napisał(a): Currently, some packages just depend on dev-lang/python. Arfrever claims it to be right It's correct only for packages (e.g.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Petteri Räty
On 03/18/2010 09:43 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: So my vote goes for changing the dependency strings for affected packages. Here's some thoughts on the matter: - dev-lang/python is correct if the package works with all python versions in tree - in general we want new slots of packages like gcc

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:02:38 +0200 Petteri Räty betelge...@gentoo.org wrote: Here's how we could change Portage behavior for pulling new slots that are not strictly required: - for packages in the world file install as soon as available - for dependencies install the new slot if everything

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Thomas Sachau
On 03/18/2010 08:55 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-18 20:47:35 Thomas Sachau napisał(a): On 03/18/2010 08:33 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-18 20:20:02 Thomas Sachau napisał(a): Currently, some packages just depend on dev-lang/python. Arfrever

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Thomas Sachau
On 03/18/2010 09:02 PM, Petteri Räty wrote: On 03/18/2010 09:43 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: So my vote goes for changing the dependency strings for affected packages. Here's some thoughts on the matter: - dev-lang/python is correct if the package works with all python versions in tree -

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Ben de Groot
On 18 March 2010 20:24, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote: On 18-03-2010 20:20:02 +0100, Thomas Sachau wrote: There are 2 ways to fix this issue: -fix the dependency string for those packages (including the lines in distutils.eclass) or (since Arfrever claims current portage

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Doktor Notor
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:27:50 +0100 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: Since the last option will take time in any case, I guess the first option is the best to achieve the desired goal: make sure Python 3 stays as far away as possible from any system that doesn't need it. And the best

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Petteri Räty
On 03/18/2010 10:10 PM, Ciaran McCreesh wrote: On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:02:38 +0200 Petteri Räty betelge...@gentoo.org wrote: Here's how we could change Portage behavior for pulling new slots that are not strictly required: - for packages in the world file install as soon as available - for

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Petteri Räty
On 03/18/2010 10:21 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: On 03/18/2010 09:02 PM, Petteri Räty wrote: On 03/18/2010 09:43 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: So my vote goes for changing the dependency strings for affected packages. Here's some thoughts on the matter: - dev-lang/python is correct if the package

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Ciaran McCreesh
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 23:00:56 +0200 Petteri Räty betelge...@gentoo.org wrote: Here's how we could change Portage behavior for pulling new slots that are not strictly required: - for packages in the world file install as soon as available - for dependencies install the new slot if

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Brian Harring
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 09:13:01PM +0100, Thomas Sachau wrote: On 03/18/2010 08:55 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-18 20:47:35 Thomas Sachau napisał(a): On 03/18/2010 08:33 PM, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote: 2010-03-18 20:20:02 Thomas Sachau napisał(a):

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Thomas Sachau
On 03/18/2010 10:00 PM, Petteri Räty wrote: And do you want to add a special rule to portage just for the special case of python instead of the ebuilds/eclasses having the issue? What issue is there with ebuilds/eclasses? Both should reflect the deps as well as can be done with current

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Sebastian Pipping
On 03/18/10 21:53, Doktor Notor wrote: Why on earth would you mask a working package with extremely active maintainer in CVS Upstream stability is unequel Gentoo stability. Sebastian

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Ben de Groot
On 18 March 2010 21:53, Doktor Notor notordok...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:27:50 +0100 Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: Since the last option will take time in any case, I guess the first option is the best to achieve the desired goal: make sure Python 3 stays as far

Re: [gentoo-dev] Packages pulling in python-3*, also they dont require it

2010-03-18 Thread Alec Warner
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Ben de Groot yng...@gentoo.org wrote: On 18 March 2010 20:24, Fabian Groffen grob...@gentoo.org wrote: On 18-03-2010 20:20:02 +0100, Thomas Sachau wrote: There are 2 ways to fix this issue: -fix the dependency string for those packages (including the lines in