Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Naga wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Case in point, portage I have read has a lot of hacks that are hurting development. In the end it works pretty well but it makes it really hard to add more features without messing up something else. So, someone needs to make a decision on what needs to happen with that. Some say rewrite portage, some say switch to C** and some say switch to Plaudus (sp?). This just seems to be one thing I have read about. I'm sure Portage (the program) has allot of hacks in it but I'm also sure that had those who advocate its shortcomings been concerned about backwards compability with older stable versions they would have been more humble in there criticism. Yep, you are likely dead on there. Thing is, now, someone needs to decide what to do next. I wouldn't mind a change that means you can not go backwards. I have said M$ needs to cut that cord myself. It may hurt at first but in the long run it will pay off. Like you, I wish I could do more. I would be willing to learn to code if I felt it was worthwhile. I am disabled so I have plenty of time to learn and contribute but after my past experiences on -dev, I won't be repeating that for a VERY long time and only after some things change. The devs complain about not having enough help but when someone wants to learn and help some they sort of shoot themselves in the foot. The best way to help out is to try and join a team/herd. They are much friendlier then the -dev list and in much need of help. The easiest way I think is to join an arch team as an arch tester. That may be true but the past few times on -dev left a bad taste. If I start learning to code and stuff I would want to move up. Right now, I'm not even remotely interested in that. I'll just stay right here where I am. Of course, if I get the same here, I'd go away from here too. Dale :-) :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?
On Montag, 14. Januar 2008, Wayne Clement wrote: On 1/14/08, Dirk Heinrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Am Montag, 14. Januar 2008 schrieb ext Walter Dnes: SVG is an OpenSource replacement for Schlockwave-Trash, to be used for creating singing/dancing webpages. Nope. SVG is Scalable Vector Graphics, a vector image format. Maybe it's used for icon rendering, like in KDE. Bye... Dirk Any chance it's for drawing pie charts and such yes -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:05:26 +1000, Alan E. Davis wrote: I want there to be a gentoo. I want there to be a well documented and not horribly painful way to install. I like the concept. I completely agree. What's wrong with appropriating the Fedora (or other) install? The arguments against that don't seem to be technical... -Thufir -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:27:30 +0100, b.n. wrote: If I can give you an advice: don't create a new livecd from scratch. Take an Ubuntu, Knoppix or similar live cd, just add these three files in a /gentoo directory, and re-release it xerox, with just the three files added and a Gentoo logo somewhere. Or simply rebuild the existing CD with a newer kernel. Almost all of the complaints about it being out of date can be traced back to the users' hardware not being supported in the kernel used a year ago. -- Neil Bothwick I locked my coathanger in my car; good thing I had a key. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sunday 13 January 2008, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Am Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008 schrieb Etaoin Shrdlu: You can use Daniel Robbins' stage3s: Why should I? They're likely also built with different use flags than the ones I use. Thus I will end up recompiling anyway. Ah ok, I wrongly thought yours was more a problem of outdated stage3 tarballs rather than different USE flags. In this case yes, the best option is starting from stage1. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 14, 2008, at 5:17 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:27:30 +0100, b.n. wrote: If I can give you an advice: don't create a new livecd from scratch. Take an Ubuntu, Knoppix or similar live cd, just add these three files in a /gentoo directory, and re-release it xerox, with just the three files added and a Gentoo logo somewhere. Or simply rebuild the existing CD with a newer kernel. Almost all of the complaints about it being out of date can be traced back to the users' hardware not being supported in the kernel used a year ago. yeah. i agree. In fact, imho the most perfect gentoo installer is the mini live cd! what more can anybody need? would it take much effort to maintain/refresh a mini live cd installer? Couldn't that be refreshed every couple of months? Having an installer gets newbies to like gentoo, reduces the barrier of entry and gets new blood for the community and introduces users to a whole new world and still give newbies the general idea of what gentoo is. not to mention give old hats a quick way to just get gentoo up and running as quickly as possible. if newbies find the mini live cd too difficult, then gentoo is probably not for them is it? Anything greater than a mini install cd i think, the community has the right to expect contributors to help develop. just my two cents worth. -- Cocoy People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware. --Alan Kay -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?
Walter Dnes ha scritto: Tried to do an update today. Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely goffice. Trying to build goffice fails with the following message... Use another spreadsheet and go ranting on your blog. Bye. m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 14, 2008 1:19 AM, b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Let me explain. You began complaining because the Gentoo live cd *exists*, but it is out of date and didn't support your hardware. It's a reasonable complain in the assumption you need the Gentoo cd (and you can't do with anything else): you of course want your hardware to be supported by the medium installation. Now, imagine the official Gentoo live cd *never existed*. You probably just would have picked up some cd you knew supported your system (say, latest Ubuntu) and installed using that. No complaining, no discussions, everyone happy. You are right. See? Having the Gentoo live cd *was wrong from the beginning*. It put another fairly complex piece of software to support on developer shoulders, offered vanishingly little benefit, and when it fails it immediately puts blame on Gentoo: hey this cd doesn't support my hardware, wtf that can offset potential users. Still right. The reason other distro have complex live cds for installing is that they *need that*. Gentoo does not need this additional complexity. Nevertheless a live cd there was, but as you experienced, it's more the trouble it causes than that it solves. I disagree. Gentoo needs it too. Because *THE* point that made me love Gentoo *in the FIRST second*, was: GOD !!! look at this wonderful handbook look at that so didactic installation way !!! Let's boot the minimal CD and burn a full LiveCD ! And I was so happy to get my minimal/live CD's that I think Yeah, a very nice distro, taking your hand from the beginning to bring knowledge step-by-step, providing all that you need... software and amazing doc. And not having a live cd on which Gentoo is obliged to depend is not a bug: sir, it's a feature! The live cd didn't support my Macbook Pro networking. Well, fine: Kubuntu did. I had a Kubuntu 7.10 cd around, booted from that, no hassle at all. Other distros have to support their own live cd, and if it fails, installation is impossible. With Gentoo, we have the full monty of live cds to choose within. It's like a distro with infinite installers. Yes. It is a feature. As well as the possibility to use minimal/live CD. Look at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing-needs/ and read the first task requiring staff: 1 accessibilityRequested on November 19, 2006 by William Hubbs: Gentoo's accessibility project is in need of help with things such as ebuild maintenance, kernel hacking, and *LiveCD creation*. We're also in need of someone to assist with bug solving. also at the so wonderful handbook, step 2. Choosing the Right Installation Medium... The feature is *you can* start from any booted linux to setup your Gentoo kernel. Right. But not there is no Gentoo liveCD and it is what we want. You are free to create a live cd for Gentoo install, but you're doing nothing new nor particularly useful. You'll just add one to the list. Why? Because I want. It is sufficient for me. Further details ? I would like to bring the excitation to burn a Gentoo CD to noobs and people that are pleased to get their CD from Gentoo world. And I want a liveCD to make live demo in my linux promotional association, to show how easy emerge is, how very nicely the rc are handled (not based on naming as debian does) and so on... Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
Hi all, I sought how to make pass my emerge's starting from a tunnel configured with Putty but did not find nothing interesting. How can i do this ? Thx ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 14, 2008 10:17 AM, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:27:30 +0100, b.n. wrote: If I can give you an advice: don't create a new livecd from scratch. Take an Ubuntu, Knoppix or similar live cd, just add these three files in a /gentoo directory, and re-release it xerox, with just the three files added and a Gentoo logo somewhere. Or simply rebuild the existing CD with a newer kernel. Almost all of the complaints about it being out of date can be traced back to the users' hardware not being supported in the kernel used a year ago. +1, at least for the minimal CD ;) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 14, 2008 10:39 AM, Cocoy Dayao [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yeah. i agree. In fact, imho the most perfect gentoo installer is the mini live cd! what more can anybody need? would it take much effort to maintain/refresh a mini live cd installer? Couldn't that be refreshed every couple of months? Having an installer gets newbies to like gentoo, reduces the barrier of entry and gets new blood for the community and introduces users to a whole new world and still give newbies the general idea of what gentoo is. not to mention give old hats a quick way to just get gentoo up and running as quickly as possible. if newbies find the mini live cd too difficult, then gentoo is probably not for them is it? Anything greater than a mini install cd i think, the community has the right to expect contributors to help develop. just my two cents worth. Agreed. IMHO, the noob should start with the handbook on his legs and the minimal CD this is the best way to start for a beginner. But liveCD are also interesting for networkless people... gimme one reason not to provide good liveCD to these people that will re-build -with custom USE flags- the embedded packages ? I can't find Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: Hi all, I sought how to make pass my emerge's starting from a tunnel configured with Putty but did not find nothing interesting. How can i do this ? Thx ;) Are you using putty on windows then? Log in with putty, you will get a bash session. Become root, run emerge. If this doesn't work, then post back with FULL error messages, the process you followed and where it failed. alan -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Monday 14 January 2008 10:48:08 Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: You can use Daniel Robbins' stage3s: Why should I? They're likely also built with different use flags than the ones I use. Thus I will end up recompiling anyway. Ah ok, I wrongly thought yours was more a problem of outdated stage3 tarballs rather than different USE flags. In this case yes, the best option is starting from stage1. Not really. emerge -e world from a stage 3 is still both considerably less effort than stage 1 and much more reliable. Furthermore stage 1 is completely unsupported and for a very good reason. -- Bo Andresen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 01:12:09 +, James wrote: 2. Keep licensing more in line with the BSD license for Gentoo centric technology (thus encouraging entrepreneurship as defined by the individual while simultaneously respecting GPLv2 and maintaining compliance with GPLv2. GPLv3 is a poor idea, IMHO. GPLv3 can be made easily available and leave GPLv3 compliance/responsibility up to the individual. In fact software licensing and compliance should always be up to the INDIVIDUAL, IMHO. Absolutely not -- For BSD licensing please use BSD. I see no reason why everything Gentoo related can't be GPL v2 -- after all, the kernel certainly is. I wouldn't want to see entrepreneurs take Gentoo, *improve* it, and then not contribute those improvements back to Gentoo itself. That's what the GPL versus BSD is about, to my knowledge. That being said, it would be fantastic if the Gentoo Foundation found ways to make money :) -Thufir -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 10:11:11 +0100, alain.didierjean wrote: Daniel Robbins offers to take back Gentoo leadership. What about it ? Read http://blog.funtoo.org/2008/01/here-my-offer.html -- ~adj~ I find it unfortunate that he doesn't simply post his ideas to this list, but I suppose from his perspective that doing so would open a can of worms :( -Thufir -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] epiphany+webkit
Can anybody help me to install epiphany with webkit ? Search in Google does results, but it not working (api of webkit is changed and epiphany does not compile). I'm using epiphany 2.21.4 with webkit latest from the site webkit.org (gtk build) -- С уважением, Vasiliy G Tolstov http://www.selfip.ru begin:vcard fn:Vasiliy G Tolstov n:Tolstov;Vasiliy org:PeterHost.Ru;Virtual Hosting adr:;;Professora Popova str.;Saint-Petersbutg;;;Russia email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:System Administrator tel;work:+78123477743 tel;cell:+79119940054 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.selfip.ru version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: Thx for the Answer but I think I asked the question wrong. I Use Putty to bypass a HTTP proxy who do not let emerge Work. So i wan't to run portage in my pc, not in the remote one. But i wan't to sync passing the SSH tunnel who is configurated to listen at the port 8080 of my localhost. It's not clear at all whether you have http access from your gentoo box. If so, did you try emerge-webrsync? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Install CD : was Is GWN dead?
On Fri, 11 Jan 2008 13:35:38 +, Neil Bothwick wrote: I understand they are switching to a lighter desktop for the next release, because GNOME was using too much of the CD that was needed for packages. The only packages (beyond a desktop) required are (my opinion): xchat or pidgin firefox -Thufir -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
It's not clear at all whether you have http access from your gentoo box. If so, did you try emerge-webrsync? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list # emerge --sync Starting rsync with rsync://140.211.166.165/gentoo-portage... Checking server timestamp ... timed out rsync error: received SIGINT, SIGTERM, or SIGHUP (code 20) at rsync.c(276) [receiver=2.6.9] Retrying... # emerge-webrsync -v Fetching most recent snapshot Attempting to fetch file dated: 20080113 --12:48:20-- http://mirror.hamakor.org.il/pub/mirrors/gentoo//snapshots/portage-20080113.tar.bz2 = `/var/tmp/emerge-webrsync/portage-20080113.tar.bz2' Résolution de mirror.hamakor.org.il... 82.80.248.176 Connexion vers mirror.hamakor.org.il|82.80.248.176|:80...connecté. requête HTTP transmise, en attente de la réponse...ERREUR de lecture (Connexion terminée par expiration du délai d'attente) de l'en-tête. Nouvel essai. It's in french but easy to understand My tunnel works, i use IRC throught it, but i don't know where to configure Portage to use it.
[gentoo-user] Digests without attachments
Starting with issue 1370, I receive gentoo-user digests without their attachments, like this: Topics (messages 73878 through 73927): That's all there is. What happens? Is my Thunderbird badly configured, or what? I should be grateful for hints. Charles -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 19:03:10 +0100, Pongracz Istvan wrote: After reading lot of posts regarding install cd, I decided, I will create livecd for install purposes, with: - handbook - fresh stage3 for i686 - portage snapshot I will try to keep it up-to-date. Anyway, I'm not a dev member, just a user with motivation to do this. Are anybody interesting in this kind of release? Cheers, István Yes; just with that I had more to offer to the effort. -Thufir -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: It's in french but easy to understand My tunnel works, i use IRC throught it, but i don't know where to configure Portage to use it. Do you also use http through it? Regarding portage, it could be as easy as doing # export http_proxy=name.of.your.proxy but without further info about your config (meaning: exact putty config, and exact use you make of it, and from where), it's difficult to help. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
2008/1/14, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: Hi all, I sought how to make pass my emerge's starting from a tunnel configured with Putty but did not find nothing interesting. How can i do this ? Thx ;) Are you using putty on windows then? Log in with putty, you will get a bash session. Become root, run emerge. If this doesn't work, then post back with FULL error messages, the process you followed and where it failed. alan -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list Thx for the Answer but I think I asked the question wrong. I Use Putty to bypass a HTTP proxy who do not let emerge Work. So i wan't to run portage in my pc, not in the remote one. But i wan't to sync passing the SSH tunnel who is configurated to listen at the port 8080 of my localhost.
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Hemmann, Volker Armin wrote: On Sonntag, 13. Januar 2008, Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. First D Robbins created Gentoo. Second what part of ex-dev don't you understand. If you are an ex-dev you shouldn't even be in the discussion period. that is one of the most stupid things I ever read on this list. So users should never be part of discussions? Their needs? Their opinions? Also, drobbins continued his attacks even after explained SEVERAL times that the stuff ciaranm was doing was a) wanted and b) helpfull and c) supervised by devs. But he couldn't shut up OR accept that things changed since he left. Somebody who can not deal with changes, is somebody certainly unfit for leadership. Yes, he started gentoo (my first gentoo was 1.0). And compared to the chaotic times, gentoo is a heaven of stability today. Back under drobbins leadership it was ok, that the tree was broken or some update screwed your system. Happened all the time - nobody complained (too loudly). And some day he left. Things changed. Gentoo is much more stable today. There is no breakage of the week. No large scale surprising 'nothing works anymore'. A lot of things were done - without him. And he comes back and thinks that he can do better? Please - he already has shown that he can't. He has shown that he will leave projects after a short while (stampede, freebsd, enoch, gentoo, Microsoft). He has never shown that he can pull through with a project. It is not stupid, just a difference of opinion. -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 17.31.20 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.33.28 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: Naga Toro wrote: On Sunday 13 January 2008 15.07.57 Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: I guess you don't get the point of being also in a flame war with a ex-dev who although very bright lacks in all the social skills. I read the thread of these two going at it and hell, I wanted to leave. Who needs the grief of listening to that crap from some a**hole who LEFT the project. Give me a break. That would be two a**holes in that discussion. If you read it you would know that may devs tried to correct drobbins but that he couldn't accept the fact that he wasn't the chief anymore and that things have changed since he left. I'm not sure that the best guy to run Gentoo is a guy who wants to be THE chief and not one of the community. First D Robbins created Gentoo. Yeah so? He created Gentoo and then moved on. Thus leaving in the same sense or more since he didn't keep contributing, as the other dev did. Second what part of ex-dev don't you understand. Point being? If you are an ex-dev you shouldn't even be in the discussion period. As both of them where. Evidently you are new to Gentoo. D Robbins was broke after starting Gentoo and working on it day and night and trying to support a family he needed money. You can't live on nothing. Get it now? He was the dev that created Gentoo not just another dev. Back then yes. (and no I'm not new to Gentoo, been using it for years and been an official part of since about 3/4 of a year) Ciaran is a smart dev, but he was only a dev. He quit of his own volition due to the disagreement with other devs as to the direction of Portage. Fine, but don't come back on gentoo-dev and start a bunch of sh**. If you don't like the way things are done start your own distro! Don't come back and crap all over everyone's hard work. About Ciarans people skills I agree they are none to slim, but the points he makes are valid and since this is an open project he has every right to voice his opinion. I agree 100% with what you said. I hope that something good will come out of this. I also have been using Gentoo for a long time and would hate to see this just disintegrate to nothing. Gentoo is the best and flexible distro out there. -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Shaochun Wang wrote: On Fri, Jan 11, 2008 at 07:25:55AM -0600, Eddie Mihalow Jr wrote: distros. I do find these other methods of install to be interesting though. Has anyone on this list ever used a PXE boot image to install? In fact, the Gentoo system of my current desktop machine was installed by using PXE boot method! I need 64 bit operating system. But the Gentoo livecd can't boot my system. BTW, my computer is Dell optiplex 745. Great! Did you already have a image built or use the PXE in another way? -- Edward A Mihalow Jr Mudbug Computers and Networks Gentoo! Linux Registered Linux User#225662 New Orleans,LA -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] ebuild that installs partprobe
Hi all, I used to have the partprobe utility installed, but now it's gone - must have trashed it one day without thinking. I can't remember which ebuild installed it either... There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? alan -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
2008/1/14, Etaoin Shrdlu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: It's in french but easy to understand My tunnel works, i use IRC throught it, but i don't know where to configure Portage to use it. Do you also use http through it? Regarding portage, it could be as easy as doing # export http_proxy=name.of.your.proxy but without further info about your config (meaning: exact putty config, and exact use you make of it, and from where), it's difficult to help. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list Ok, ;) My Network have a Squid Proxy who allow only some ports like 80 443... Putty is configurated to connect to a box i have in an other place, it allow to make a SSH Tunnel who create a socks proxy at localhost:8080. Putty listen to this port and send all the frames passing the 443 of the SQUID proxy to my exterior box. I wan't to configure Portage to use this SOCK proxy at localhost:8080
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Etaoin Shrdlu wrote: On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: Thx for the Answer but I think I asked the question wrong. I Use Putty to bypass a HTTP proxy who do not let emerge Work. So i wan't to run portage in my pc, not in the remote one. But i wan't to sync passing the SSH tunnel who is configurated to listen at the port 8080 of my localhost. It's not clear at all whether you have http access from your gentoo box. If so, did you try emerge-webrsync? Elyahou, What EXACTLY is failing? You are not giving any information we can work with, so please supply FULL information with ALL relevant details. Does 'emerge --sync' fail? This has nothing to do with HTTP proxies as it's an rsync session Does 'emerge some package' fail, and if so, what is the error message? This might well be a proxy, so can you see gentoo.org in a browser? alan -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
What other information can i give ?
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: Ok, ;) My Network have a Squid Proxy who allow only some ports like 80 443... Ok, so you should be able to use # export http_proxy=proxyname or address # emerge-webrsync To use the already existing proxy in your network. If you insist on using your tunnel, read on. Putty is configurated to connect to a box i have in an other place, it allow to make a SSH Tunnel who create a socks proxy at localhost:8080. So you're forwarding port 8080 on the putty (windows) box to port 1080 on the remote box, where a SOCKS server is listening on that port, correct? I'm not sure whether putty allows non-local connections to forwarded ports by default, if this is not the case you'll need to enable that option. Putty listen to this port and send all the frames passing the 443 of the SQUID proxy to my exterior box. How do you do that? I wan't to configure Portage to use this SOCK proxy at localhost:8080 localhost, IIUC, is a windows box, and portage is running on another (linux, on the same network) box. So, at a minimum, you'll need to use a.b.c.d:8080 as a SOCKS server, where a.b.c.s is the IP address of the windows putty box. Assuming you have a SOCKS server at a.b.c.d:8080 (albeit through a tunnel, but the apps don't know that), then you need to use some socksifying utility for emerge, since (AFAIK) it does not support SOCKS out of the box. So, something like # socksify emerge --sync should work (though I have not tested it). socksify is part of net-proxy/dante. Of course, you need to specify the SOCKS proxy at a.b.c.d port 8080 in the /etc/socks/socks.conf configuration file (I don't remember the exact syntax to do that right now, but it should be quite intuitive). -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ebuild that installs partprobe
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:20:26 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/cgi-bin/pfs-web.pl?action=home But it's currently not working :( http://packages.debian.org says it's part of parted, and qfile agrees (I didn't even know I had it installed). -- Neil Bothwick Uhura: Captain, you're being flamed on channel one. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] ebuild that installs partprobe
On Monday 14 January 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? I knew this: http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/cgi-bin/pfs-web.pl but it's not working at the moment... However, a bit of googling seems to indicate that partprobe is part of parted (pardon the pun). -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
2008/1/14, Etaoin Shrdlu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: Ok, ;) My Network have a Squid Proxy who allow only some ports like 80 443... Ok, so you should be able to use # export http_proxy=proxyname or address # emerge-webrsync To use the already existing proxy in your network. If you insist on using your tunnel, read on. Putty is configurated to connect to a box i have in an other place, it allow to make a SSH Tunnel who create a socks proxy at localhost:8080. So you're forwarding port 8080 on the putty (windows) box to port 1080 on the remote box, where a SOCKS server is listening on that port, correct? I'm not sure whether putty allows non-local connections to forwarded ports by default, if this is not the case you'll need to enable that option. Putty listen to this port and send all the frames passing the 443 of the SQUID proxy to my exterior box. How do you do that? I wan't to configure Portage to use this SOCK proxy at localhost:8080 localhost, IIUC, is a windows box, and portage is running on another (linux, on the same network) box. So, at a minimum, you'll need to use a.b.c.d:8080 as a SOCKS server, where a.b.c.s is the IP address of the windows putty box. Assuming you have a SOCKS server at a.b.c.d:8080 (albeit through a tunnel, but the apps don't know that), then you need to use some socksifying utility for emerge, since (AFAIK) it does not support SOCKS out of the box. So, something like # socksify emerge --sync should work (though I have not tested it). socksify is part of net-proxy/dante. Of course, you need to specify the SOCKS proxy at a.b.c.d port 8080 in the /etc/socks/socks.conf configuration file (I don't remember the exact syntax to do that right now, but it should be quite intuitive). -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list I am a little confused... Putty listen to my 127.0.0.1:8080 and forward to my extern box:443 passing the squid proxy:3128 (in SSH of course) I tried configure the http proxy by export... but the web rsync still don't run...
Re: [gentoo-user] Daniel Robbins' come back ?
What looks strange -from an external point of view- is that there is lots of high-skilled people here... with huge Gentoo experience. How did these people not manage to build some plan ? With all the engineers, team leaders, project chiefs, and so on... involved in Gentoo project ? It looks like you have the abilities to analyse the situation, you are the ones who can tell we need that to go ahead, you know how to plan, you used to live in an open community -that implies that you have very good notions about smart productive attitudes in a not-lucrative environment- and you have the skills to implement and deploy the solutions. I don't know Daniel Robbins's previous work so I just have the right to shut up (and do it with respect). But when I read this thread, I understand that this man' plans should/will/must? be validated before by Trustees, but also by the whole committed community (devs mostly included) because they could not accept major changes without their agreement (risks of fork). So -from an external point of view, again- it comes to me that the devs and really involved people will estimate/evaluate the proposals... and it sounds good since they are the core of current Gentoo maintenance and development. But what about having work plans directly from devs ? I know that you are very busy... but I am sure that Gentoo future could benefit from experienced people, like Alan, as an example. Is it possible to get some public report, written by devs that have something to tell, explaining the current main issues, what Gentoo should do starting from now, and the plans for near future ? Maybe with several propositions Because what is sure is that non-devs face difficulties to get a clear view of Gentoo status... Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ebuild that installs partprobe
There is a wonderful new tool available for questions like this!! http://www.portagefilelist.de/index.php/Special:PFLQuery?dir=package=full_file=file=partprobeversion=pflquery=submitted On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:00:52 +0100, Etaoin Shrdlu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 14 January 2008, Alan McKinnon wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? I knew this: http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/cgi-bin/pfs-web.pl but it's not working at the moment... However, a bit of googling seems to indicate that partprobe is part of parted (pardon the pun). -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
2008/1/14, Etaoin Shrdlu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What application is running on the remote box, port 443? A SOCKS server or something else? OpenSSH, which manage the redirections alone. What kind of machine is 127.0.0.1:8080, where putty is running? It's likely a windows box, but now putty exists for linux too. Is this the same machine you want to run portage on? If not, is the portage box on the same network as the putty one? I am on Linux :P and the configuration is my Gentoo Installation. 127.O.O.1 is my machine where putty is running, Xchat run with this proxy configuration: Socks5 127.0.0.1:8080 After Many tests, this solution worked. Thx for that ;) But I am interested on a global configuration who pass all connection by the SSH tunnel. How i can do that ?
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:24:52 +0100, Michael Schmarck wrote: Because a first-time installer benefits from the confidence given by using an official install disc. I don't understand that. What confidence? To install Gentoo, you need a way to partition your storage, create filesystems and chroot. That can easily be done by any live CD. Assuming you know what you are doing. Of course. And if you don't, then you should get some clue (maybe by reading the wonderful documentation). But if you still don't know what you're doing, then the Install CD would also be of no help at all for you. If you've ever tried to help a number of less confident users through it, you'd know what I mean. And why should there be a difference, if they start from a GRML CD compared to a Gentoo CD? While I don't disagree that a Gentoo live CD is absolutely necessary, you seem to be taking the argument further, saying that Gentoo should not have its own live CD. Why? Because it's unnecessary. It adds stuff to the Gentoo Environment which needs to be supported. And it barely adds anything useful Michael -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
www.portagefilelist.de On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:04:18 +0100, Michael Schmarck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? I suppose you're talking about PFS, Portage File Search at http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/pfs/ - but that site is gone now :( If anyone knows of a replacement for this: Please post URL! Michael -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? I suppose you're talking about PFS, Portage File Search at http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/pfs/ - but that site is gone now :( If anyone knows of a replacement for this: Please post URL! Michael -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ebuild that installs partprobe
On Monday 14 January 2008, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:20:26 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/cgi-bin/pfs-web.pl?action =home But it's currently not working :( http://packages.debian.org says it's part of parted, and qfile agrees (I didn't even know I had it installed). That explains why it's missing - victim of a recent spring clean I did. I never use parted, I'm an fdisk kind of guy myself :-) Thanks for the reply, and to Etaoin as well -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ebuild that installs partprobe
On 1/14/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a wonderful new tool available for questions like this!! http://www.portagefilelist.de/index.php/Special:PFLQuery?dir=package=full_file=file=partprobeversion=pflquery=submitted Many tanks, it is a good URL to know :) Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: I am a little confused... Putty listen to my 127.0.0.1:8080 and forward to my extern box:443 passing the squid proxy:3128 (in SSH of course) What application is running on the remote box, port 443? A SOCKS server or something else? What kind of machine is 127.0.0.1:8080, where putty is running? It's likely a windows box, but now putty exists for linux too. Is this the same machine you want to run portage on? If not, is the portage box on the same network as the putty one? I tried configure the http proxy by export... but the web rsync still don't run... Exactly what command did you enter and how the error messages looked like (the exact messages)? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ebuild that installs partprobe
On Monday 14 January 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a wonderful new tool available for questions like this!! http://www.portagefilelist.de/index.php/Special:PFLQuery?dir=package= full_file=file=partprobeversion=pflquery=submitted Great tool, thanks for the info! -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Monday 14 January 2008, Iain Buchanan wrote: On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 07:35 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: the situation will resolve that same way these things have always been resolved, by one of these or a combination: a. a strong leader emerges with a vision and takes over b. a strong leader emerges with a vision and forks c. common sense prevails and everyone comes to their senses d. a hidden bad egg goes away or dies and suddenly everything calms down e. the project dies and nothing replaces it I think you just foretold the end of the universe too... [snip] But he does have a plan, and thus far seems to be the only one *with*a*plan*. Let's hear what he has to say and respond accordingly. I thought that he outlined his plan in his blog and involves him being given carte blanche to choose who stays, who goes and which way the Gentoo Foundation moves ahead? I guess this is the reason that some of us have expressed concern at this coming back (under these conditions). Baldrick had a plan, and look where that got him. But then he wasn't exactly the visionary leader... Yes, but his was a cunning plan my lord! (for the non-UK readers, Baldrick was a comedy character from a BBC series). I am not sure that a visionary leader is required on the case of Gentoo, in its current lifecycle stage. Visionary leadership is absolutely needed when overwhelming, fast change needs take place. We're not talking of a start up here, or a significantly diverging fork, or scrapping MS Windows and starting afresh. We have a maturing product which needs some (relatively small) developmental change so that it continues to improve. What we also need (I humbly suggest) is to develop strategic direction of the Gentoo product(s) within a business use case context. I believe that Gentoo has the potential to rival most commercial Linux distros out there, but has failed so far to do so. In addition, we have a breakdown of organisational governance because persons with the wrong skillset were appointed in Strategic and Administrative positions. It seems to me that people with the correct skillset were appointed in Technical positions, and the increasing stability of Gentoo over the last few years is an indication of this. In conclusion, what we need is leadership in Strategic and Administrative activities, not by default (i.e. through the current devs and trustees), but through a new organisational design. Devs the failed organisational body of the trustees (or its replacement) should of course contribute in all decisions made, but their voice must not be absolute and at the exclusion of the user base. Anyway, from what it seems from Slashdot, DRobbins' blog, and f.g.o there is overwhelming user support for him to return (of course there are some users against the idea). But what about the devs? The support for DR seems to be less enthusiastic as you rise further up the gentoo hierarchy. But then if he is blocked at the critical trustee level, then either b. will happen, or he'll just return to the background... I am happy to contribute to the governance and organisational design of a new Gentoo setup and as James suggested put this forward to the users, devs, trustees. What do you think? Is there mileage in this? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?
b.n. wrote: Walter Dnes ha scritto: Tried to do an update today. Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely goffice. Trying to build goffice fails with the following message... Use another spreadsheet and go ranting on your blog. Bye. m. Yep, I don't see why he's shocked by having SVG and Unicode, especially the later as a dep, they seem perfectly logical to me. What shocked me is his WTF Gabriel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] DTC webhosting application + gentoo
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Pongracz Istvan wrote: | Hi, | | I would like to ask that does anybody use dtc with gentoo? | DTC is a hosting panel, similar to cpanel, plesk etc., but under GPL. If you plan on using DTC... change distribution. The whole idea of using DTC/ISPConfig/etc is to lift burden off you... maintaining DTC for gentoo might be excessive. - -- Arturo Buanzo Busleiman BUSCO Baterista para estilo brit-pop Zona Norte BsAs Independent Security Consultant - SANS - OISSG http://www.buanzo.com.ar/pro/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHi2FnAlpOsGhXcE0RCv5/AJ9LhPpivREhTNq8sLcPjYXvLgo7wACePXe3 uCVHvR5Hb7ROlNyPtq6n8vI= =069p -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?
On Monday 14 January 2008, Gabriel Rossetti wrote: b.n. wrote: Walter Dnes ha scritto: Tried to do an update today. Gnumeric has a new dependancy, namely goffice. Trying to build goffice fails with the following message... Use another spreadsheet and go ranting on your blog. Bye. m. Yep, I don't see why he's shocked by having SVG and Unicode, especially the later as a dep, they seem perfectly logical to me. What shocked me is his WTF He was shocked because he thought 'svg' was the GNU Flash-replacement, not vector graphics support. An easy enough mistake to make I suppose. Done worse myself. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
On Monday 14 January 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: www.portagefilelist.de *Very* useful link - thanks! alan On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:04:18 +0100, Michael Schmarck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? I suppose you're talking about PFS, Portage File Search at http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/pfs/ - but that site is gone now :( If anyone knows of a replacement for this: Please post URL! Michael -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
2008/1/14, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: What kind of machine is 127.0.0.1:8080, where putty is running? It's likely a windows box, but now putty exists for linux too. Is this the same machine you want to run portage on? If not, is the portage box on the same network as the putty one? I am on Linux Now I am confused. Why do you run Putty on a Linux machine? I used it once just to confuse and confound co-workers and have it runable in Wine just to impress some other people. But I'd never seriously USE it for anything... That's why I have ... um ... openssh and ... err ... telnet -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list Haha i used Putty in Windows and use now on Linux because i known it... :P Thx for all
[gentoo-user] DTC webhosting application + gentoo
Hi, I would like to ask that does anybody use dtc with gentoo? DTC is a hosting panel, similar to cpanel, plesk etc., but under GPL. Regards, István -- eGroupWare, gLiveCD, gentoo és barátai http://www.osbusiness.hu „A humor a méltóság támasza, fölényünket hirdeti mindazzal szemben, amit a sors ránk mér.” (Romain Gary) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: What kind of machine is 127.0.0.1:8080, where putty is running? It's likely a windows box, but now putty exists for linux too. Is this the same machine you want to run portage on? If not, is the portage box on the same network as the putty one? I am on Linux Now I am confused. Why do you run Putty on a Linux machine? I used it once just to confuse and confound co-workers and have it runable in Wine just to impress some other people. But I'd never seriously USE it for anything... That's why I have ... um ... openssh and ... err ... telnet -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
There is a wiki article http://gentoo-wiki.com/PortageFileList which contains a python script, which sends updates from ones personal box to the database server. As this project community dependent a lot of users should help to update the database. On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 15:07:31 +0200, Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 14 January 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: www.portagefilelist.de *Very* useful link - thanks! alan On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:04:18 +0100, Michael Schmarck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There a site out there that lists files installed for just about all gentoo ebuilds, could some kind soul post the url for me please? I suppose you're talking about PFS, Portage File Search at http://www.rommel.stw.uni-erlangen.de/~fejf/pfs/ - but that site is gone now :( If anyone knows of a replacement for this: Please post URL! Michael -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] DTC webhosting application + gentoo
2008. 01. 14, hétfő keltezéssel 11.19-kor Arturo 'Buanzo' Busleiman ezt írta: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Pongracz Istvan wrote: | Hi, | | I would like to ask that does anybody use dtc with gentoo? | DTC is a hosting panel, similar to cpanel, plesk etc., but under GPL. If you plan on using DTC... change distribution. The whole idea of using DTC/ISPConfig/etc is to lift burden off you... maintaining DTC for gentoo might be excessive. This is exactly what I afraid of. Thank you for your response. Regards, István -- eGroupWare, gLiveCD, gentoo és barátai http://www.osbusiness.hu „A humor a méltóság támasza, fölényünket hirdeti mindazzal szemben, amit a sors ránk mér.” (Romain Gary) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: 2008/1/14, Etaoin Shrdlu [EMAIL PROTECTED]: What application is running on the remote box, port 443? A SOCKS server or something else? OpenSSH, which manage the redirections alone. What does this mean? I am on Linux :P and the configuration is my Gentoo Installation. 127.O.O.1 is my machine where putty is running, Xchat run with this proxy configuration: Socks5 127.0.0.1:8080 After Many tests, this solution worked. Thx for that ;) But I am interested on a global configuration who pass all connection by the SSH tunnel. Still, it's unclear what your exact configuration is. However, assuming that you're tunneling SOCKS, you could use socksify (configured to use SOCKS for every protocol and IP address) and launch the applications with socksify appname -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: emerge of ksh93 erroring out.. who can interpret
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So I'm interested in what I might run into. So far it looks like it
would be ALMOST as easy as symlinking ksh to bash in /bin.
Uh, this sounds scary :)
The two big things I see that will cause that not to work are lots of
calls to `print' and that bash does not understand the easy way you
can create an array in ksh:
`set -A array somecmd'
creating an array of the output of somecmd.
So the print calls and array creation would cause failure in nearly
all my scripts.
Someone on comp.unix.shell pointed out I could create a
`print() { echo -e $@ }'
function in bash and add that to my old ksh scripts. So that would
cover the print calls in most cases but still pondering the array
part.
I do not know about ksh, but if the former statement creates an array with
the i'th element containing the i'th word of somecmd's output, it should
work like this:
array=( $( somecmd ) )
If you need the i'th line, not the i'th word, do it like this, changing the
internal field separator to newlines only:
oldIFS=$IFS
IFS=$'\n'
array=( $( somecmd ) )
IFS=$oldIFS
If you want to keep your notation, something like this might work. If the
first parameter of a call to set is -A, it creates the array, or else it
calls the bash set builtin:
set ()
{
if [[ $1 == -A ]]
then
eval $2=( $( $3 ) )
else
set $@
fi
}
I don't have so many with array calls but enough that it would be some
work to fix.
But back to your comments. The bugs. [...]
Can you cite some actual examples of what you are talking about, with
enough detail so I can see what you mean? Maybe include one or two of
the workarounds you are tired of dealing with?
I also had trouble with some bash bugs(*), and have some workarounds in my
scripts, in case they run with older bash versions. But as I cannot ensure
the client systems run kash or zsh, I did not bother to learn them, and
chose bash as my shell. It's amazing what it can do, but I guess zsh and
ksh can do the same, or even more.
(*) One was that I once needed to escape backslashes in ${//...} notations,
but now I must not do so any more:
(( BASH_VERSINFO 3 ))
ospath=${1////} ||
ospath=${1//\\//}
The other problem was with the =~ notation and quoting of the regular
expression not being allowed any more. Workaround is to define a variable
(foo) with the expression: [[ blabla =~ $foo ]]
Wonko
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Dale dalek1967 at bellsouth.net writes: Like you, I wish I could do more. I would be willing to learn to code if I felt it was worthwhile. I am disabled so I have plenty of time to learn and contribute but after my past experiences on -dev, I won't be repeating that for a VERY long time and only after some things change. The devs complain about not having enough help but when someone wants to learn and help some they sort of shoot themselves in the foot. Bad thing is, I have a lot of time that I could put to use. Dale Hello Dale, Things are not that bleak. Have you ever considered learning about embedded Gentoo? There is a separate list, and you put a stripped down version of gentoo on a SBC (single board computer). You get to customize your own mini gentoo, and learn about many of the low level aspects of making software work with hardware. An SBC can be had for around $200 and you can get lots of help from the embedded gentoo list. Perhaps once you learn in that environment, you can contribute without being part of the 'feeding frenzy'? There is much freedom and many needs related to embedded gentoo. Drop me some private email and we can talk more, if you are interested. James -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] DNAT not working
In [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Daniel Iliev) writes: On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 20:01:04 + (UTC) Konstantinos Agouros [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, =20 I have a box running vmware server where I need some DNAT rules to get traffic from a vm to where it belongs. Inserting the rule iptables -t nat -I PREROUTING -s ... -d ... -p tcp --dport ... -j DNAT --to-destination destaddr =20 gives me: =20 iptables: No chain/target/match by that name =20 Also I had to manually modprobe iptable_nat since iptables -L didn't initialize everything. I rebuilt iptables to match the current kernel (2.6.23-gentoo-r3) no luck. Strace on the command showed me setsockopt(3, SOL_IP, 0x40 /* IP_??? */, nat\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0\0..., 920) =3D -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) =20 Anybody got an idea what I am doing from? =20 Regards, =20 Konstantin I believe you've forgotten to build support for NAT in your kernel: Nope that's not it grep IP_NF_IPTABLES .config CONFIG_IP_NF_IPTABLES=m And it's not that I can't insert anything in the chain. It's --dport that gets me the error message. I played around and started with inserting a blank rule. =E2=94=82 Symbol: IP_NF_IPTABLES [=3Dm] =E2=94=82 Prompt: IP tables support (required for filtering/masq/NAT) =E2=94=82 Defined at net/ipv4/netfilter/Kconfig:45=20 =E2=94=82 Depends on: NET INET NETFILTER=20 =E2=94=82 Location: =E2=94=82 - Networking =E2=94=82 - Networking support (NET [=3Dy])=20 =E2=94=82 - Networking options =E2=94=82 - Network packet filtering framework (Netfilter) (NETFILTER [=3D= y])=20 =E2=94=82 - IP: Netfilter Configuration=20 =E2=94=82 Selects: NETFILTER_XTABLES --=20 Best regards, Daniel -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list -- Dipl-Inf. Konstantin Agouros aka Elwood Blues. Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Otkerstr. 28, 81547 Muenchen, Germany. Tel +49 89 69370185 Captain, this ship will not survive the forming of the cosmos. B'Elana Torres -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
Galevsky ha scritto: The reason other distro have complex live cds for installing is that they *need that*. Gentoo does not need this additional complexity. Nevertheless a live cd there was, but as you experienced, it's more the trouble it causes than that it solves. I disagree. Gentoo needs it too. Because *THE* point that made me love Gentoo *in the FIRST second*, was: GOD !!! look at this wonderful handbook look at that so didactic installation way !!! Let's boot the minimal CD and burn a full LiveCD ! What would have been different with: GOD !!! look at this wonderful handbook look at that so didactic installation way !!! Let's boot a live CD and start installing! I'm extremly dense probably, since I really don't get it. And I was so happy to get my minimal/live CD's that I think Yeah, a very nice distro, taking your hand from the beginning to bring knowledge step-by-step, providing all that you need... software and amazing doc. Again, what would have been different in your happiness with another cd? Yes. It is a feature. As well as the possibility to use minimal/live CD. Look at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing-needs/ and read the first task requiring staff: 1 accessibilityRequested on November 19, 2006 by William Hubbs: Gentoo's accessibility project is in need of help with things such as ebuild maintenance, kernel hacking, and *LiveCD creation*. We're also in need of someone to assist with bug solving. So, without the live cd, the accessibility project would have a thing less to solve. I can't see how having more troubles and no advantage is a positive thing, but again: I'm probably extremly dense. Because I want. It is sufficient for me. Further details ? I would like to bring the excitation to burn a Gentoo CD to noobs and people that are pleased to get their CD from Gentoo world. We're excited by different things :) And I want a liveCD to make live demo in my linux promotional association, to show how easy emerge is, how very nicely the rc are handled (not based on naming as debian does) and so on... Beautiful, but this has nothing to do with the need of a gentoo install cd. However a Gentoo demo cd is a nice project. Happy hacking, anyway! m. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Re: Re: Is GWN dead?
On Jan 14, 2008 5:54 PM, b.n. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We're excited by different things :) No doubt :) Gal' -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Create mutli-file .zip archives from the command line?
Hi, On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 16:34:01 + Stroller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The file is the same size in bytes (8056211212) on the destination XP machine as it is on the Samba host, but the md5sums (using Sumemr Properties under XP) don't match. There is also the slight possibility that your md5sum util in Windows isn't dealing well with file offsets 4GB. Re-check using a different one, I'd say. -hwh -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Thufir hawat.thufir at gmail.com writes: 2. Keep licensing more in line with the BSD license for Gentoo centric technology (thus encouraging entrepreneurship as defined by the individual while simultaneously respecting GPLv2 and maintaining compliance with GPLv2. GPLv3 is a poor idea, IMHO. GPLv3 can be made easily available and leave GPLv3 compliance/responsibility up to the individual. In fact software licensing and compliance should always be up to the INDIVIDUAL, IMHO. Absolutely not -- For BSD licensing please use BSD. I see no reason why everything Gentoo related can't be GPL v2 -- after all, the kernel certainly is. It runs a little deeper than this, particularly when you look at how is doing what. For example There are Dozens of corporations willing to sell 'embedded linux' to you. Yet the core of their offering is the same linux you used (with some tweaks at the kernel, HAL and a few other places). How does Monta Vista get to sell embedded linux without being sued? I really don't think this is the place to discuss licensing but the BSD vs GPLv(2/3) is a hugely complicated issue. Lots of small companies are being quietly sued for building products related to embedded linux. But, none of the large corporations that do the same or worse are being sued? And, oh, just so you know, Monta Vistas original RTOS was a rip off of BSD. (Do your own research) I wouldn't want to see entrepreneurs take Gentoo, *improve* it, and then not contribute those improvements back to Gentoo itself. That's what the GPL versus BSD is about, to my knowledge. Again you miss the point. If some small company builds a product, they are not going to want to stray very far from the linux kernel tree. The most they do is write a device driver. If they have some real 'magic' you just put a second sub $1 micro processor on the circuit board and locate your magic therein. It's as easy as eating pie. Publish your gpl code on the big micro and hide your magic in a small proccessor/DSP/FPGA/PAL. There are many other schemes to get around GPL, including writing your own boot loader. (not as difficult as it sounds). What the GPLv3 is doing is effectively keeping the little guys from building products ~100% based on linux and open source. They have not stopped a single well funded company (or an entire country like China) from using linux and open source as they choose. This is a very huge reason for the current state of affairs for failed technology companies (particularly in the USA), at the present time. The Linux Journal has a big campaign to locate linux inside of products, basically asking folks to 'rat out' companies using linux to make a buck. insert your own conspiracy theory here You still believe gplv3 is a good thing? I think *GPLv3* is the spawn of Satan, and that's the reason most of the kernel devs did not go for that *horse hockey*! That being said, it would be fantastic if the Gentoo Foundation found ways to make money :) It will never happen as longs as myths such as the ones you espouse reign supreme, IMHO. The reason that Gentoo and all of those souls that develop and support it is floundering on near financial failure, is the tenants (goals) that others have brain washed onto the masses, IMHO. The very best way (IMHO) to promote democracy and freedom is for the people to have a way to make money as entrepreneurs and small business people. Keeping Linux bottled up, via the GPL is just plain nuts! Besides that, Linux only bottled up for the little guys, HP, IBM, and thousands of other companies used linux every day in products or high end services, such as phone/networking gear. Who is suing them? Hell, the US DOD uses Linux like crazy... Who are we kidding with the entire GPL schrade? (Keep the serfs where they belong, methinks). James -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: emerge of ksh93 erroring out.. who can interpret
Alex Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
So I'm interested in what I might run into. So far it looks like it
would be ALMOST as easy as symlinking ksh to bash in /bin.
Uh, this sounds scary :)
Yeah, it would be on a system with actual users but here its just me,
myself and I. So all that is effected are the ksh scripts I've
written and currently use in various places (none are system show
stoppers).
But I was really just saying that syntax at my low level of usage is
largely interchangeable but for the cases I mentioned. So it makes
switching scripting shells from ksh93 to bash pretty smooth.
[...]
(for searchers who hit this discussion: I've snipped out very
nice information showing how to do ksh93 style `set -A arrary cmd'
in bash... and related interesting syntax See Alex S previous message
in this thread at Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
I also had trouble with some bash bugs(*), and have some workarounds in my
scripts, in case they run with older bash versions. But as I cannot ensure
the client systems run kash or zsh, I did not bother to learn them, and
chose bash as my shell. It's amazing what it can do, but I guess zsh and
ksh can do the same, or even more.
Pretty much summarizes why I'm switching to bash too. Instead of
learning the suggested (in this thread) zsh or staying with ksh93.
Something for your consideration I learned on comp.unix.shell that
ksh93 can handle associative arrays where as bash cannot or maybe just
not as easily. The example given by Icarus S. there for ksh93 was:
From: Icarus Sparry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: internal alias
Newsgroups: comp.unix.shell
Date: 11 Jan 2008 17:23:20 GMT
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
typeset -A wives
wives[fred]=wilma
wives[barny]=betty
while read husband
do
case ${wives[$husband]} in
) echo Single;;
*) echo Married to ${wives[$husband]} ;;
esac
done
You may find that discussion interesting
The other problem was with the =~ notation and quoting of the regular
expression not being allowed any more. Workaround is to define a variable
(foo) with the expression: [[ blabla =~ $foo ]]
I can't reproduce that here (I mean a problem with quoting the regex)
but maybe I'm not getting what you mean? Or maybe its been fixed.
bash --version
GNU bash, version 3.2.17(1)-release (i686-pc-linux-gnu)
reader if [[ bla =~ bl ]];then echo MATCH;fi
MATCH
reader if [[ bla =~ bl ]];then echo MATCH;fi
MATCH
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] RANT: WTF does a *SPREADSHEET* need SVG and unicode?
Hi, On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 08:13:33 +0100 Renat Golubchyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is nothing basic about a spreadsheet program. It is a very advanced piece of software. From a developer's perspective unicode is an obvious requirement, if he tries to write a program for many different locales without too much hassle. And I can well see myself e.g. inserting greek chars that have some mathematical meaning in my spreadsheets... After all, this isn't Lotus-123 and I don't use a 9-pin-printer anymore... And FWIW, SVG (or parts of it and lots of referring definitions) is integrated in the Open Document Format for Office Applications. -hwh -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Monday 14 January 2008, James wrote: Absolutely not -- For BSD licensing please use BSD. I see no reason why everything Gentoo related can't be GPL v2 -- after all, the kernel certainly is. It runs a little deeper than this, particularly when you look at how is doing what. For example There are Dozens of corporations willing to sell 'embedded linux' to you. Yet the core of their offering is the same linux you used (with some tweaks at the kernel, HAL and a few other places). How does Monta Vista get to sell embedded linux without being sued? The GPL does allow to sell your product (as opposite to giving it away for free). Why should Montavista be sued if they respect the GPL? As long as they distribute the source code with their products (which admittedly I don't know), they are fine. Just because the sources are not downloadable from their site, does not mean that they should be sued. I really don't think this is the place to discuss licensing but the BSD vs GPLv(2/3) is a hugely complicated issue. Lots of small companies are being quietly sued for building products related to embedded linux. But, none of the large corporations that do the same or worse are being sued? It seems to me that the difference is not between small or big companies, but rather between those who obey the GPL and those who do not. Recently, someone noticed that ASUS (not exactly a small company) had not published the full sources for their eee pc OS on their site; they were notified, and subsequently they added that code. Read the full story: http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-first-impressions-and-gpl.html http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-some-sources-posted.html Other companies have been sued or notified, but not just because they were big or small, but because they failed to obey the GPL (xterasys, monsoon, fortinet, d-link...you can find tons of cases just by googling a bit), someone even admitted their faults, In some cases, the companies were declared guilty. Again you miss the point. If some small company builds a product, they are not going to want to stray very far from the linux kernel tree. The most they do is write a device driver. If they have some real 'magic' you just put a second sub $1 micro processor on the circuit board and locate your magic therein. It's as easy as eating pie. Publish your gpl code on the big micro and hide your magic in a small proccessor/DSP/FPGA/PAL. There are many other schemes to get around GPL, including writing your own boot loader. (not as difficult as it sounds). What the GPLv3 is doing is effectively keeping the little guys from building products ~100% based on linux and open source. They have not stopped a single well funded company (or an entire country like China) from using linux and open source as they choose. Why should they have been stopped? This is a very huge reason for the current state of affairs for failed technology companies (particularly in the USA), at the present time. The Linux Journal has a big campaign to locate linux inside of products, basically asking folks to 'rat out' companies using linux to make a buck. insert your own conspiracy theory here Making money, even lots of money, with linux is not prohibited. What is wrong is when someone does not obey the GPL, and that's what LJ wants to do: to discover companies that try to benefit from the work of the linux community without giving anything back (I think you are referring to the linux incognito initiative here). You still believe gplv3 is a good thing? I think *GPLv3* is the spawn of Satan, and that's the reason most of the kernel devs did not go for that *horse hockey*! That being said, it would be fantastic if the Gentoo Foundation found ways to make money :) It will never happen as longs as myths such as the ones you espouse reign supreme, IMHO. The reason that Gentoo and all of those souls that develop and support it is floundering on near financial failure, is the tenants (goals) that others have brain washed onto the masses, IMHO. The very best way (IMHO) to promote democracy and freedom is for the people to have a way to make money as entrepreneurs and small business people. Keeping Linux bottled up, via the GPL is just plain nuts! Besides that, Linux only bottled up for the little guys, HP, IBM, and thousands of other companies used linux every day in products or high end services, such as phone/networking gear. Who is suing them? Nobody, because they obey the GPL. Or should they be sued only because they are big companies? Hell, the US DOD uses Linux like crazy... Who are we kidding with the entire GPL schrade? (Keep the serfs where they belong, methinks). They are just *using* linux. What laws are they breaking? Why should they be sued? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is a wiki article http://gentoo-wiki.com/PortageFileList which contains a python script, which sends updates from ones personal box to the database server. As this project community dependent a lot of users should help to update the database. That script fails here... I suppose the site has a bug report or help link there somewhere. Or I guess a wiki input scheme... I've never actually used a wiki in that way before. Very nice site though... many times over the last 3 or so years I could have used this.. Thanks gentoo community. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
May I suggest you split the discussion if you continue about licensing, so we can keep a clear topic on Daniel's come back ? Thanks Etaoin Shrdlu a écrit : On Monday 14 January 2008, James wrote: Absolutely not -- For BSD licensing please use BSD. I see no reason why everything Gentoo related can't be GPL v2 -- after all, the kernel certainly is. It runs a little deeper than this, particularly when you look at how is doing what. For example There are Dozens of corporations willing to sell 'embedded linux' to you. Yet the core of their offering is the same linux you used (with some tweaks at the kernel, HAL and a few other places). How does Monta Vista get to sell embedded linux without being sued? The GPL does allow to sell your product (as opposite to giving it away for free). Why should Montavista be sued if they respect the GPL? As long as they distribute the source code with their products (which admittedly I don't know), they are fine. Just because the sources are not downloadable from their site, does not mean that they should be sued. I really don't think this is the place to discuss licensing but the BSD vs GPLv(2/3) is a hugely complicated issue. Lots of small companies are being quietly sued for building products related to embedded linux. But, none of the large corporations that do the same or worse are being sued? It seems to me that the difference is not between small or big companies, but rather between those who obey the GPL and those who do not. Recently, someone noticed that ASUS (not exactly a small company) had not published the full sources for their eee pc OS on their site; they were notified, and subsequently they added that code. Read the full story: http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-first-impressions-and-gpl.html http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-some-sources-posted.html Other companies have been sued or notified, but not just because they were big or small, but because they failed to obey the GPL (xterasys, monsoon, fortinet, d-link...you can find tons of cases just by googling a bit), someone even admitted their faults, In some cases, the companies were declared guilty. Again you miss the point. If some small company builds a product, they are not going to want to stray very far from the linux kernel tree. The most they do is write a device driver. If they have some real 'magic' you just put a second sub $1 micro processor on the circuit board and locate your magic therein. It's as easy as eating pie. Publish your gpl code on the big micro and hide your magic in a small proccessor/DSP/FPGA/PAL. There are many other schemes to get around GPL, including writing your own boot loader. (not as difficult as it sounds). What the GPLv3 is doing is effectively keeping the little guys from building products ~100% based on linux and open source. They have not stopped a single well funded company (or an entire country like China) from using linux and open source as they choose. Why should they have been stopped? This is a very huge reason for the current state of affairs for failed technology companies (particularly in the USA), at the present time. The Linux Journal has a big campaign to locate linux inside of products, basically asking folks to 'rat out' companies using linux to make a buck. insert your own conspiracy theory here Making money, even lots of money, with linux is not prohibited. What is wrong is when someone does not obey the GPL, and that's what LJ wants to do: to discover companies that try to benefit from the work of the linux community without giving anything back (I think you are referring to the linux incognito initiative here). You still believe gplv3 is a good thing? I think *GPLv3* is the spawn of Satan, and that's the reason most of the kernel devs did not go for that *horse hockey*! That being said, it would be fantastic if the Gentoo Foundation found ways to make money :) It will never happen as longs as myths such as the ones you espouse reign supreme, IMHO. The reason that Gentoo and all of those souls that develop and support it is floundering on near financial failure, is the tenants (goals) that others have brain washed onto the masses, IMHO. The very best way (IMHO) to promote democracy and freedom is for the people to have a way to make money as entrepreneurs and small business people. Keeping Linux bottled up, via the GPL is just plain nuts! Besides that, Linux only bottled up for the little guys, HP, IBM, and thousands of other companies used linux every day in products or high end services, such as phone/networking gear. Who is suing them? Nobody, because they obey the GPL. Or should they be sued only because they are big companies? Hell, the US DOD uses Linux like crazy... Who are we kidding with the entire GPL schrade? (Keep the serfs where they belong, methinks). They are just
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: Furthermore stage 1 is completely unsupported and for a very good reason. Which good reason, Bo? You seem to know it, so maybe give a link somewhere; don't make us guess or search. Benno -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Etaoin Shrdlu shrdlu at unlimitedmail.org writes: The GPL does allow to sell your product (as opposite to giving it away for free). Why should Montavista be sued if they respect the GPL? As long as they distribute the source code with their products (which admittedly I don't know), they are fine. Just because the sources are not downloadable from their site, does not mean that they should be sued. Ummm, I guess you are new to a space that I have worked in for a very long time. Let's make this simple. Why don't you just pose as a company that need MV's EL (embedded linux) and ask for a listing of all of the wonderful thing you can do with MV EL that are superior to the public offerings of EL. Then ask them from their sourcecode to these 'enhancements'. They are not alone, they are just one of the companies selling a RTOS based on EL. It seems to me that the difference is not between small or big companies, but rather between those who obey the GPL and those who do not. Naive, you are! Big companies have lawyer, lobyist and often politicians in their pocket. Over the years most people, at least in countries that pretend to have democracy, have seen this. Remember how the Democratic politicians and state where going after MS and then most of the issues got settled by republican. Yet the EU still slapped MS with lawsuits and punitive damages? If you think small companies are treated just like big one, you are very naive and no amount of evidence will change your mind. Just ask most anyone that's been in small business before. Recently, someone noticed that ASUS (not exactly a small company) had not published the full sources for their eee pc OS on their site; they were notified, and subsequently they added that code. Read the full story: http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-first-impressions-and-gpl.html http://cliffhacks.blogspot.com/2007/11/asus-eeepc-some-sources-posted.html You are talking about device drivers here, not products that have a hidxden OS and use linux as the RTOS inside the product. Verifying what is acutally inside of a close (RTOS) system is difficult, at best, and often impossible it the firmware engineer wants to make it difficult for other to analyze. There is a group of firmware engineers that have publically stated that they write for free any device driver for any company using EL. To paraphrase that person, the problem is not finding coders to write device drivers, it's convincing companies to open source their drivers or allow their products to inter-operate with OS drivers Other companies have been sued or notified, but not just because they were big or small, but because they failed to obey the GPL (xterasys, monsoon, fortinet, d-link...you can find tons of cases just by googling a bit), someone even admitted their faults, In some cases, the companies were declared guilty. true, but it does not affect the point I'm trying to make. What you are talking about is a drop of rain, in an ocean. Again you miss the point. If some small company builds a product, they are not going to want to stray very far from the linux kernel tree. The most they do is write a device driver. If they have some real 'magic' you just put a second sub $1 micro processor on the circuit board and locate your magic therein. It's as easy as eating pie. Publish your gpl code on the big micro and hide your magic in a small proccessor/DSP/FPGA/PAL. There are many other schemes to get around GPL, including writing your own boot loader. (not as difficult as it sounds). What the GPLv3 is doing is effectively keeping the little guys from building products ~100% based on linux and open source. They have not stopped a single well funded company (or an entire country like China) from using linux and open source as they choose. Why should they have been stopped? I'd just like the charade to end. GPL keeps the serfs on 'massa farm' It does not stop billion dollar entities from doing whatever they want with EL or any other OS (open source) software. This is a very huge reason for the current state of affairs for failed technology companies (particularly in the USA), at the present time. The Linux Journal has a big campaign to locate linux inside of products, basically asking folks to 'rat out' companies using linux to make a buck. insert your own conspiracy theory here Making money, even lots of money, with linux is not prohibited. What is wrong is when someone does not obey the GPL, and that's what LJ wants to do: to discover companies that try to benefit from the work of the linux community without giving anything back (I think you are referring to the linux incognito initiative here). OK, then why does the GPL not make a simple rule change. If you have grossed over 1 million dollars on your linux product or service, then you have to open source your code. That way the little guys can make
[gentoo-user] Re: emerge of ksh93 erroring out.. who can interpret
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alex Schuster [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But I was really just saying that syntax at my low level of usage is largely interchangeable but for the cases I mentioned. So it makes switching scripting shells from ksh93 to bash pretty smooth. Well, good luck then :) Something for your consideration I learned on comp.unix.shell that ksh93 can handle associative arrays where as bash cannot or maybe just not as easily. The example given by Icarus S. there for ksh93 was: [...] You may find that discussion interesting Yeah, this is one of the things I would also like very much to have. But the Bash FAQ (http://tiswww.case.edu/php/chet/bash/FAQ) not only states that bash lacks this feature (C2), but also says that this is planned for the future (H3). So I wait and hope it will happen soon. Well. Eventually. The other problem was with the =~ notation and quoting of the regular expression not being allowed any more. Workaround is to define a variable (foo) with the expression: [[ blabla =~ $foo ]] I can't reproduce that here (I mean a problem with quoting the regex) but maybe I'm not getting what you mean? Or maybe its been fixed. [...] In bash 3.2, [[ 1 =~ 1|2|3 ]] worked and evaluated to true, but [[ 1 =~ 1|2|3 ]] gave a syntax error. In bash = 3.2, [[ 1 =~ 1|2|3 ]] does not match any longer, only [[ 1 =~ 1|2|3 ]] does. The workaround is to define a variable foo, and use [[ 1 =~ $foo ]]. Wonko -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Jil Larner jil at gnoo.eu writes: May I suggest you split the discussion if you continue about licensing, so we can keep a clear topic on Daniel's come back ? I only use licensing as an example (that I'm willing to defend as long as it takes) to support the notion of vehicles to generate revenue around the 'gentoo engine'. After all, if you look at Daniel's recent past, he's been searching for ways to use Gentoo, to *make money*. Several folks have pointed out that the majority of people believe that using (gentoo) linux to make money is a good idea. Daniel has been with lots of ventures in the recent past. Gentoo is his next 'bidness'. (ok that's settled?) Many folks suspect that Daniel wants control of Gentoo, to make money the way he envisions. He has not said why he would go to all of this trouble to be the technical, spiritual and financial leader of Gentoo (this makes the devs and others nervous). If fact it has been suggested in some of these discussion threads (particularly on the forums) that turning gentoo towards a profitable business model is exactly what's on Daniel's mind. Exactly what this entails is unclear. If Gentoo is to turn commercial then the relevance of licensing is paramount, IMHO. I only get my digs in, to get the serfs thinking about their financial future, related to Gentoo and it's future licensing issues. That the reason for the examples and the FOTITUDE to wake up the serfs that the GPL is hurting them the most. The GPL does not hurt large corporations. Maybe, just maybe, the GPL needs a financial test before it affects a company? (Just one idea for thought). After all, a company that grosses less than one million dollars, most likely does not have anything (code) that anyone else cannot easily generate. Gentoo is in play, do you understand this? Ever heard of T Boone Pickens? Daniel realizes that Gentoo has value. That's why he wants to return and rule in an autocratic fashion. He has not asked to be the technical guru (leader of the tribes) and hand the financial decision making to others (something a benevolent benefactor would do). He wants *CONTROL of EVERYTHING* He has insulted the devs that get in his way. Go read the 14 pages on the forum and you get a pretty clear picture, that he is not this *benevolent benefactor* that the masses believe he is. If he was, he would return, humble get on 'the team' and let folks who have experience and connections run the financial affairs of Gentoo, to the benefit of the all devs and the user alike. Why else would Daniel let the foundation sink? I sure anyone in the know could have sent in the few hundred bucks to keetp gentoo legally established. This crisis has been orchestrated to force a decision, plain and simple. It's going to become the fiefdom of somebody and my vote (voice) is that the serfs (users) and the devs take this puppy and decide how to make money with it (Plain and simple). If you give it back to daniel, he has greater rights legally that if the thing just dies. If it dies lots of folks can pick up the code, rename it and start a fork that can be GPL or commercial, IMHO. The GPL get's in the way, IMHO. Handing it over to Daniel with ~100% non publish control is a recipe for the serfs and the majority of the serfs to get the privilege of remaining on massa's farm, IMHO. Why else do you think the real discussions are going on behind closed doors? come on, use your brain here.. (or at least go read the 14 pages on the forum and then come back with a clue). God, I sure hope I'm wrong.. James -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: License issues [was:Daniel Robbins' come back ?]
On Monday 14 January 2008, James wrote: Etaoin Shrdlu shrdlu at unlimitedmail.org writes: The GPL does allow to sell your product (as opposite to giving it away for free). Why should Montavista be sued if they respect the GPL? As long as they distribute the source code with their products (which admittedly I don't know), they are fine. Just because the sources are not downloadable from their site, does not mean that they should be sued. Ummm, I guess you are new to a space that I have worked in for a very long time. Let's make this simple. Why don't you just pose as a company that need MV's EL (embedded linux) and ask for a listing of all of the wonderful thing you can do with MV EL that are superior to the public offerings of EL. Then ask them from their sourcecode to these 'enhancements'. They are not alone, they are just one of the companies selling a RTOS based on EL. Have you ever used their products? Do you know for sure they don't give you the code? (I'm just curious here, I don't want to be unnecessarily polemic) I'm asking because in their site they say that they also give you some development modules (for eclipse) and tools for rebuilding the system, so this would seem to imply they also give you the source code. It seems to me that the difference is not between small or big companies, but rather between those who obey the GPL and those who do not. Naive, you are! Big companies have lawyer, lobyist and often politicians in their pocket. Over the years most people, at least in countries that pretend to have democracy, have seen this. Remember how the Democratic politicians and state where going after MS and then most of the issues got settled by republican. Yet the EU still slapped MS with lawsuits and punitive damages? If you think small companies are treated just like big one, you are very naive and no amount of evidence will change your mind. Just ask most anyone that's been in small business before. What I know is that big companies have had their defeats too, and if that has happened some times in the past it might happen again. This does not mean, of course, that it will actually happen (I'm not *that* naive). And, IMHO, carrying on with bad practices just because the world around you behaves that way does not make you a trustworthy company (but it's true that it does let you make lots of money). You are talking about device drivers here, not products that have a hidxden OS and use linux as the RTOS inside the product. Verifying what is acutally inside of a close (RTOS) system is difficult, at best, and often impossible it the firmware engineer wants to make it difficult for other to analyze. I don't have enough knowledge of the embedded world to speak here, so you might very well be correct about this. There is a group of firmware engineers that have publically stated that they write for free any device driver for any company using EL. To paraphrase that person, the problem is not finding coders to write device drivers, it's convincing companies to open source their drivers or allow their products to inter-operate with OS drivers Agreed. But a closed source driver can be released either by a big company or by a small one. And if linux gains popularity, refusing to open source a driver might actually turn out to be a bad thing for the company, since they will lose interoperability (read: customers) more and more (at least for general-purpose hardware modules; for embedded or specialized hardware things might be different). Other companies have been sued or notified, but not just because they were big or small, but because they failed to obey the GPL (xterasys, monsoon, fortinet, d-link...you can find tons of cases just by googling a bit), someone even admitted their faults, In some cases, the companies were declared guilty. true, but it does not affect the point I'm trying to make. What you are talking about is a drop of rain, in an ocean. Maybe. What the GPLv3 is doing is effectively keeping the little guys from building products ~100% based on linux and open source. They have not stopped a single well funded company (or an entire country like China) from using linux and open source as they choose. Why should they have been stopped? I'd just like the charade to end. GPL keeps the serfs on 'massa farm' It does not stop billion dollar entities from doing whatever they want with EL or any other OS (open source) software. Again...why should these billion dollars be forbidden to circulate, or do whatever, as long as the open source software rules are respected? You seem to imply that a (free) software license is a way to stop people from investing or making money. Making money, even lots of money, with linux is not prohibited. What is wrong is when someone does not obey the GPL, and that's what LJ wants to do: to discover companies that try to benefit from the
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (or at least go read the 14 pages on the forum and then come back with a clue). Maybe this has already been posted here... but: What 14 pages on what forum? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Monday 14 January 2008, James wrote: If it dies lots of folks can pick up the code, rename it and start a fork that can be GPL or commercial, IMHO. The GPL get's in the way, IMHO. Handing it over to Daniel with ~100% non publish control is a recipe for the serfs and the majority of the serfs to get the privilege of remaining on massa's farm, IMHO. Why else do you think the real discussions are going on behind closed doors? Even if Daniel does wrest control of Gentoo from the non-existant Foundation and change the license on Gentoo's copyright works, very little actually changes. He can't prohibit anyone from using what they already have under GPL, and each one of us already has a complete copy of portage on our machines. If he does turn Gentoo into some evil empire, the rest of us always have the choice to say So long, it was nice knowing you, fork and create a new distro. A new gentoo might be able to tell us that we can't use any portage code published after tomorrow, but so what? How much code is that actually going to be? Same with the docs, that was published under CC Attribution/Share-Alike. I can rip all of http://www.gentoo.org/doc/ right now with wget, remove the Gentoo logo and stick it up on any web site I feel like as long as I clearly say (preferably on every page) that the original was written for and copyrighted by the Gentoo Foundation. Nothing anyone does now or in the future can legally prevent me from doing that. Trying to undo the GPL on Gentoo's creative works will be distro suicide, as no distro has ever managed it, and Gentoo is in no position to try. Red Hat is the most business-savvy Linux out there and they are very very careful to GPL every last keystroke. SuSE tried to keep Yast proprietary but when Novell bought them, the community forced their hand and now Yast is open source and we have OpenSuSE a la Fedora. Ubuntu is moving toward GLPing Launchpad last I heard (I can't fathom why it's taking so long...) No distro has ever managed to succeed in the Linux market with anything other than the GPL, fully and completely complied with. I don't doubt that Daniel has financial goals for Gentoo. The original reason he left, amongst others, was because he couldn't get this past the other leaders at the time, and he had pressing financial needs. It's not unusual to negotiate these things behind closed doors. I sure as hell wouldn't do it in public right now. Heck, I'd have to contend with people like myself who factually couldn't add much to the negotiations but certainly have an opinion. No thanks, I wouldn't do it that way. I don't see much of a downside overall. If worst comes to worst then Daniel kills Gentoo and we fork. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Possibly this one :D http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321.html [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (or at least go read the 14 pages on the forum and then come back with a clue). Maybe this has already been posted here... but: What 14 pages on what forum? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Monday 14 January 2008, James wrote: OK, then why does the GPL not make a simple rule change. If you have grossed over 1 million dollars on your linux product or service, then you have to open source your code. Because it *already* says that if you redistribute your code you already *have* to open source it. I suppose by implication you mean that companies grossing less than 1 million dollars are not required to open source their stuff. Well, that flies in the face of the 4 freedoms that the GPL is built on. A change like that is incompatible with GPL2 so we come back to the same mess we currently have with GPL3. The Linux kernel is licensed GPL2 ONLY (Linus removed the or later clause) and that can't be realistically changed. The only known way to do it would be to get the agreement of a large group of kernel code copyright holders, take all their code currently in the kernel, strip out everything else, rewrite the now missing bits and re-license the result. Note that this will involve huge amounts of developer work, for no discernible benefit to the developer. Seeing as Linus himself has stated that he has absolutely no intention of changing the license on the kernel, your idea is unworkable. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: License issues [was:Daniel Robbins' come back ?]
Etaoin Shrdlu shrdlu at unlimitedmail.org writes: What you're saying here is not a secret, in fact these are all more or less well-known facts. Yes, they probably did violate some open source license. However, I don't see how having had closed source products would have prevented them from doing what they wanted to do anyway. And furthermore, what does all this have to do with making money with open source? I just do not see the harm in letting a small (sub 1 million dollar company) build a product and not provide any details or what they did or how they did it. In the end, their success is more likely related to how slick their marketing campaign is or how well conceived the product/service is or how good their support is or some other twist. The GPL goes a long way to discouraging/preventing many of the serfs from ever trying IMHO. I believe that the GPL is the spawn of satan. I think the 'serfs' (the greater gentoo community) would be better off with a BSD style license related to Gentoo technologies and still use GPL software, as the individual chooses. After all, most of the BSD variants and derivatives (except those RTOS that large corporations use in some of their products) Still manage to use GPL software. Obviously, you think that GPL is a panacea. OK we agree to disagree. seeya James -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Is GWN dead?
On Monday 14 January 2008, Benno Schulenberg wrote: Bo Ørsted Andresen wrote: Furthermore stage 1 is completely unsupported and for a very good reason. Which good reason, Bo? You seem to know it, so maybe give a link somewhere; don't make us guess or search. The vast unending stream of completely useless bug reports and requests for help from users who had a) chosen the wrong stage 1 or 2 for their arch b) set the wrong flags and compile options c) listened to ricer advice and been left with an unusable system d) bitch and moan as to why it takes 96 hours to get a bash prompt e) changed the install commands to something better which didn't work then consumed too much support time that could have been better spent elsewhere, especially since the answer usually turned out to be don't try and be clever, just trash what you already did and do it properly with a stage 3 when all of this was completely avoidable if they had just chosen to build from a stage 3 in the first place! A stage 1 has only one purpose in life - to build a stage 2 and to do it in a safe way insulated from any host system. A stage 2 has only one purpose in life - to provide something that can correctly run 'emerge -et system' which produces what you get with a stage 3 install (to a degree of course). So stages 1 and 2 really belong inside catalyst, the more invisible the better (as they are just bootstrap mechanisms). They are still around as catalyst still builds them, if you know where to look they are freely downloadable and can be used. But now when the user makes a hash of it the community can legitimately tell the user to stop wasting their time with unsupported stuff. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
James a écrit : Jil Larner jil at gnoo.eu writes: May I suggest you split the discussion if you continue about licensing, so we can keep a clear topic on Daniel's come back ? I only use licensing as an example (that I'm willing to defend as long as it takes) to support the notion of vehicles to generate revenue around the 'gentoo engine'. I understood your first message, I am for BSD licenses everywhere (but I haven't all arguments you gave, just faith). But it turned to a flame war on BSD vs GPL v2 (v3 is no match) and, as you say, deeply focusing on a example. After all, if you look at Daniel's recent past, he's been searching for ways to use Gentoo, to *make money*. Several folks have pointed out that the majority of people believe that using (gentoo) linux to make money is a good idea. Daniel has been with lots of ventures in the recent past. Gentoo is his next 'bidness'. (ok that's settled?) Settled. [...] Go read the 14 pages on the forum and you get a pretty clear picture, that he is not this *benevolent benefactor* that the masses believe he is. If he was, he would return, humble get on 'the team' and let folks who have experience and connections run the financial affairs of Gentoo, to the benefit of the all devs and the user alike. Well, I attempted to read the forum, but I quickly left the page. The current Gentoo case is very interesting for the student that I am, but I don't want to take too much time to read the whole topic, I am already overwhelmed, alas. Messages on the list gave me the image of what he wants and a part of what he did. That's why I think this list is great :o Why else would Daniel let the foundation sink? I sure anyone in the know could have sent in the few hundred bucks to keetp gentoo legally established. This crisis has been orchestrated to force a decision, plain and simple. Yeah, that's obvious since the beginning. When I asked what the crisis was, the problem and non problem of legal papers, I saw it. Now, I may say that Gentoo is at a mature point, is a valuable distro, and choices must be made for its future. Somewhere, politics that I never heard about let the ball run away (quote from a previous mail, I think) and lead to the current crisis that allows (or not) the come back of Daniel. Then, the question looks like will people allow Gentoo to become commercial under the leadership of Daniel without measure of control ? I'm not sure it's a good sum up. If you don't think, help me to be right. I don't say commercial is evil. I agree that having a business around gentoo may have it stronger. But I believe he aims to access power the same way as Palpatine in Star Wars, and the story could be the same, then it would be hard to find a Jedi to rescue ! :D Discussions hold in the darkness and open the way for speculation. I understand the need to discuss without the noise of the community. But communication in an Open Source project, to say what is really in game, seems to me fundamental. Are they talking about licensing, trying to arrange some counter power to reach an agreement, do they already accepted and try to figure out how to convince involved people (I mean not basic users like me) ? I don't know. Only one thing is certain : we are facing trouble times and what we watch coming seems very, very dangerous. Power allows fast acting, but doesn't necessarily make the act wise. come on, use your brain here.. I attempt, but the choice is not ours. God, I sure hope I'm wrong.. So do I. Jil. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: License issues [was:Daniel Robbins' come back ?]
On Monday 14 January 2008, James wrote: I just do not see the harm in letting a small (sub 1 million dollar company) build a product and not provide any details or what they did or how they did it. In the end, their success is more likely related to how slick their marketing campaign is or how well conceived the product/service is or how good their support is or some other twist. Well, there is nothing wrong and no harm at all. They can surely write their product from scratch and choose to not release any detail about it. In fact, many companies do this all the time. What is wrong is when a company or individual, to save time and money, decides to pick (or usurp, depending on one's point of view) an already existing piece of code and adapt it to their needs, without respecting the rules set by the author of such code (remember that the original author(s) of a GPLed code still retains their copyrights on the code). The GPL goes a long way to discouraging/preventing many of the serfs from ever trying IMHO. I believe that the GPL is the spawn of satan. I think the 'serfs' (the greater gentoo community) would be better off with a BSD style license related to Gentoo technologies and still use GPL software, as the individual chooses. After all, most of the BSD variants and derivatives (except those RTOS that large corporations use in some of their products) Still manage to use GPL software. Obviously, you think that GPL is a panacea. OK we agree to disagree. Not exactly a panacea. But I do think that the ideas in the GPL are not in contrast with the possibility of making money, both for small companies and big ones alike (and there are real-world examples to confirm this). Of course, all of this IMHO. Your views do have their good points, and I respect them. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Is GWN dead?
On Mon, Jan 14, 2008 at 11:42:35AM +0930, Iain Buchanan wrote The official release is an indication of the life of a distribution or package. Look at one of Keith Packard's reasons for leaving Xfree86 (slow release cycle), or Gnome's recent push to speed their release cycle. One, of several, reason I left Windows in 2001 was... 1995 Windows95 1996 Windows95 OSr2 1998 Windows98 1999 Windows98SE 2000 Windows ME and Windows2000 2001 WindowsXP ..and I believed MS when they said Vista was real soon nowg. I don't use linux to install linux, I use linux as a tool to do email, spreadsheets, web surfing, etc. And I've got nothing on businesses. They don't want their high-paid admins constantly spending their time installing the latest and greatest. Businesses want to set it and forget it. A few data points... in the leadup to Y2K, there were a lot of mainframe/mini programs replaced that had been running unmodified for 10 or 20 years http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_server_discovered_after/ tells about a university where a wall was built that happened to imprison a server. It kept happily chugging away, and it wasn't until 4 years later, during an audit, that it was finally tracked down, by following the network cabling one of Redhat's selling points with Redhat Enterprise Linux is the promise of a slower release cycle. Timely security patches, yes. But OS version du jour, NO. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not repeating myself I'm an X Window user... I'm an ex-Windows-user -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Konqueror crashes with latest flash
When I go to http://www.speedtest.net the flash content does not show (just a white frame in its place) and if I close konqueror I get a signal 11 sigserv. This is what the terminal shows: $ konqueror ASSERT: !icon.isEmpty() in konq_pixmapprovider.cc (81) ASSERT: !icon.isEmpty() in konq_pixmapprovider.cc (81) ASSERT: !icon.isEmpty() in konq_pixmapprovider.cc (81) (process:8363): Gtk-CRITICAL **: gtk_clipboard_get_for_display: assertion `display != NULL' failed Adobe Flash Player: gtk_clipboard_get(GDK_SELECTION_PRIMARY); failed. Trying to call gtk_init(0,0); KCrash: Application 'nspluginviewer' crashing... X Error: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter) 3 Major opcode: 25 Minor opcode: 0 Resource id: 0x266 Rebuilding flash, nspluginviewer and konqueror has not fixed this, neither has revdep-rebuild. Any ideas? -- Regards, Mick signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Monday 14 January 2008 14:03:52 Alan McKinnon wrote: Now I am confused. Why do you run Putty on a Linux machine? I used it once just to confuse and confound co-workers and have it runable in Wine just to impress some other people. You do not need wine to run putty on Linux. There's a UNIX port. Just emerge putty and run it. Not that I don't agree it's useless with all the alternatives that are available on Linux too.. ;) -- Bo Andresen signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is a wiki article http://gentoo-wiki.com/PortageFileList which contains a python script, which sends updates from ones personal box to the database server. As this project community dependent a lot of users should help to update the database. That script fails here... I suppose the site has a bug report or help link there somewhere. Or I guess a wiki input scheme... I've never actually used a wiki in that way before. Very nice site though... many times over the last 3 or so years I could have used this.. Thanks gentoo community. I ran the script here and it worked fine. Did you run it as root? Also make it executable too. Dale :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 19:47 +, James wrote: Jil Larner jil at gnoo.eu writes: May I suggest you split the discussion if you continue about licensing, so we can keep a clear topic on Daniel's come back ? I only use licensing as an example (that I'm willing to defend as long as it takes) to support the notion of vehicles to generate revenue around the 'gentoo engine'. After all, if you look at Daniel's recent past, he's been searching for ways to use Gentoo, to *make money*. Several folks have pointed out that the majority of people believe that using (gentoo) linux to make money is a good idea. Daniel has been with lots of ventures in the recent past. Gentoo is his next 'bidness'. By friday (or saturday) we will know whether or not DRobbins has been accepted, and shortly after you will know if it is his plan to commercialise Gentoo (which I personally don't think he is about to do). If he does (there are a lot of if's leading up to this) then surely you can apply to work on the project. And just like Fedora, there will be a free split. If this doesn't happen, you can of course start your own commercial Gentoo project. Write an installer that can handle multiple PC's easily, polish some business aspects (printer admin, domain control, security), and write some scripts to share the compile amongst multiple business machines and install from packages, and away you go. I don't see a problem with the RedHat / Fedora model, but it doesn't suit Gentoo in it's current form. Firstly, Fedora is the spin off, and I can't see Gentoo agreeing to accept direction from a commercial parent. Secondly if the current team were to become the commercial entity and spin off a free child, I can see from the attitudes of the current devs that they are not focused on a highly polished and business attractive product. They're not interested in a flashy installer for example (which is fine) or binary packages. In fact, given the love that the collective devs have for DRobbins, I can see them either say no, or nothing at all. Which means either DRobbins, or someone else, will take Gentoo and fork it. The two distributions will probably grow to hate each other, although they may occasionally share problems and fixes, but certainly neither will have control or direction over the other. -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au Got a complaint about the Internal Revenue Service? Call the convenient toll-free IRS Taxpayer Complaint Hot Line Number: 1-800-AUDITME -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
2008/1/15, Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You do not need wine to run putty on Linux. There's a UNIX port. Just emerge putty and run it. Not that I don't agree it's useless with all the alternatives that are available on Linux too.. ;) What alternative are you advice me ?
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
Alan McKinnon alan.mckinnon at gmail.com writes: Seeing as Linus himself has stated that he has absolutely no intention of changing the license on the kernel, your idea is unworkable. My idea is not to mess with either the GPL2/3 applications nor the gplv2 kernel. What ever is under the Gentoo umbrella could conceivably be changed to a BSD style license. In those areas where it cannot then just leave it GPLed or code around the GPL until it is minimized. I could easily see a FPGA partioned into a multi processor system, with published GPL code on one core and code under a new, Entrepreneurial license on a different part of the FPGA cores. In fact, one could network two x86 machines, one running as a GPL linux system and the other running Entrepreneurial code from a different license, as a development platform. In my opinion we are on the verge of truly distributed computing where Open Source GPL(ed) systems and devices will integrate with old fashion (closed source) products, in a rapid fashion. The Gentoo devs could get out in front of the revolution, and spawn lots of Entrepreneurs, or they can follow MS and leave the GPL shackles around their necks. (I sure hope they do not try to cross the river) The point I was trying to may (and not really a hard sell but just to illuminate moving gentoo into more of an Entrepreneur distro) would be to build the future of Gentoo (or a fork) on a better license model than GPL. GPL has worked reasonable well, but things have changed quit a lot. It's time for folks to leverage Open Source to make money. You want to live on Massa's Farm, that's your choice. I have tasted (economic) freedom and it drives me mad how the masses of folks just 'get in line' with what they hear over the loud speakers.. Oh well, I'm done with this issue. I don't think I can help, lifting the (Gentoo) devs nor the greater Gentoo user base out of economic despair , if folks do not agree with moving to a different licensing scheme, for the unique work that characterizes and surrounds Gentoo. GPL is a vow of poverty, IMHO. It sure will be interesting to see where Daniel and the trustees take/leave the distro My guess is Daniel has seen, smelled and maybe lightly tasted the flavors of economic success, and some influential folks and poked him in the ribs and said (pissst, isn't gentoo your prodigy? take that puppy public and cash in.) just a hunch, James -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
RE: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
If this can help you...
I have a similar problem (two firewalls) but I solved it using revinetd
(tcp/ip gender changer run on Linux and maybe on Wine, I used puppy
Linux, all_in_one_quemu on a windows machine)
Add something like this to your /etc/make.conf
#to get rid of certificate check in case you run ssl
FETCHCOMMAND=/usr/bin/wget -t 5 -T 60 --no-check-certificate
--limit-rate=200k \${URI} -P \${DISTDIR}
RESUMECOMMAND=/usr/bin/wget -c -t 5 -T 60 --no-check-certificate
--limit-rate=200k \${URI} -P \${DISTDIR}
#
#to use the port of your choise
https_proxy=https://user:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:12345
#
#Use ssl to stop timeconsuming antivirus scanning
GENTOO_MIRRORS=https://distfiles.gentoo.org/;
BR
Martin
--
gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] what's going on at Gentoo
Because there have been a lot of questions lately about exactly what is happening, I refer you to these links for further reading. Note I don't explicitly (dis)agree with any of it, I'm just point it out. Daniel Robbins blog: http://blog.funtoo.org/2008/01/and-it-gets-worse.html http://blog.funtoo.org/2008/01/here-my-offer.html Should his offer be accepted? http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321.html Problems at Gentoo started by: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-4721372.html#4721372 listed at: http://gentoo-wiki.com/Problems_at_Gentoo announced: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.project/213 discussed at: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-4721366.html#4721366 Discussion on Slashdot: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/12/0152208 The last council meeting (note, no mention of DR) summary: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080110-summary.txt log: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080110.txt Various bits of old news: http://opensource.sys-con.com/read/44614.htm I hope this gives some references to answering some questions about what's happening. And don't stress about Gentoo dying tomorrow. If it is going to die, it won't be for a while. cya, -- Iain Buchanan iaindb at netspace dot net dot au How to make a million dollars: First, get a million dollars. -- Steve Martin -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Installing via GRML
Hello, Over the last week, I read where many folks recommend installing Gentoo using GRML. Since I have a p3 (650Mz) system I'm installing to build a small web server for a friend, I figured I check out installing gentoo via GRML. Does anyone know of a wiki or simple guide I can follow to do this? James -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
After looking at some of the discusion at: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321.html I saw there that gentoo's charter had been pulled. What does that actually mean? And who is such a charter with? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] SSH tunnel With Portage
On Tuesday 15 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: 2008/1/15, Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You do not need wine to run putty on Linux. There's a UNIX port. Just emerge putty and run it. Not that I don't agree it's useless with all the alternatives that are available on Linux too.. ;) What alternative are you advice me ? openssh -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Daniel Robbins' come back ?
On Tuesday 15 January 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After looking at some of the discusion at: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-644321.html I saw there that gentoo's charter had been pulled. What does that actually mean? And who is such a charter with? The charter is a legal document filed with the State of New Mexico, it's the document that permits the Gentoo Foundation to exist as a legal entity. Because of unfiled paperwork etc etc the charter is no longer current and valid, and the Gentoo Foundation does not exist as a legal entity. On a code basis, it means that the Gentoo G logo, all ebuilds in the tree and portage itself now are not owned by anyone. Of course this is a dangerous position for those copyrights and logos to be in. -- Alan McKinnon alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: SSH tunnel With Portage
Alan McKinnon [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tuesday 15 January 2008, Elyahou ITTAH wrote: 2008/1/15, Bo Ørsted Andresen [EMAIL PROTECTED]: You do not need wine to run putty on Linux. There's a UNIX port. Just emerge putty and run it. Not that I don't agree it's useless with all the alternatives that are available on Linux too.. ;) What alternative are you advice me ? openssh Many of the same things available on putty are available on OpenSSH too. If you know putty it won't be real hard to learn to use openSSH. I can tell you that you might get a good response at comp.security.ssh with your questions too. I always have there. Its not about any particular kind if ssh so openssh putty etc will fit in there. -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There is a wiki article http://gentoo-wiki.com/PortageFileList which contains a python script, which sends updates from ones personal box to the database server. As this project community dependent a lot of users should help to update the database. That script fails here... I suppose the site has a bug report or help link there somewhere. Or I guess a wiki input scheme... I've never actually used a wiki in that way before. Very nice site though... many times over the last 3 or so years I could have used this.. Thanks gentoo community. I ran the script here and it worked fine. Did you run it as root? Also make it executable too. I did those things as matter of course. It think its a directory at /var/db/pkg/sus-libs/ that is empty that is causing the grief. It also appears to have a funky name from some kind of error somewhere. /var/db/pkg/sys-libs/-MERGING-pam-0.99.8.1-r1 If I knew anything about python I might try fixing it since a well written script ought not to cave on an empty directory. But since I don't I just moved the directory. :) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: Installing via GRML
James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, Over the last week, I read where many folks recommend installing Gentoo using GRML. Since I have a p3 (650Mz) system I'm installing to build a small web server for a friend, I figured I check out installing gentoo via GRML. People should make it a practice to spell out these acronyms at least once per post. What is GRML? -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Installing via GRML
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:03:39 -0600 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello, Over the last week, I read where many folks recommend installing Gentoo using GRML. Since I have a p3 (650Mz) system I'm installing to build a small web server for a friend, I figured I check out installing gentoo via GRML. People should make it a practice to spell out these acronyms at least once per post. What is GRML? Google is your friend. ;-) http://grml.org/ Quote: grml is a bootable CD (Live-CD) originally based on Knoppix and nowadays based on Debian. grml includes a collection of GNU/Linux software especially for system administrator and users of texttools. Cheers, Renat -- Probleme kann man niemals mit derselben Denkweise loesen, durch die sie entstanden sind. (Einstein) signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Installing via GRML
James wrote: Hello, Over the last week, I read where many folks recommend installing Gentoo using GRML. Since I have a p3 (650Mz) system I'm installing to build a small web server for a friend, I figured I check out installing gentoo via GRML. Does anyone know of a wiki or simple guide I can follow to do this? James There is very little difference, you could use the standard gentoo handbook. Wayn0 -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Installing via GRML
Am Dienstag, 15. Januar 2008 schrieb ext [EMAIL PROTECTED]: People should make it a practice to spell out these acronyms at least once per post. What is GRML? Renat already told you what it is, here is what GRML means: http://grml.org/faq/#whatmeans :-) Bye... Dirk -- Dirk Heinrichs | Tel: +49 (0)162 234 3408 Configuration Manager | Fax: +49 (0)211 47068 111 Capgemini Deutschland | Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wanheimerstraße 68 | Web: http://www.capgemini.com D-40468 Düsseldorf | ICQ#: 110037733 GPG Public Key C2E467BB | Keyserver: www.keyserver.net signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: ebuild that installs partprobe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: SNIP But since I don't I just moved the directory. :) That's what I would have done too. LOL Dale :-) :-) :-) -- gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
