Maybe at last I have worked out how to get onto this blog !!
Will post it tomorrow if published (many a slip between cup and lip).
Peter
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Peter Read
Hon Research Fellow
Massey University Centre for Energy Research
- Original Message - From: Stephen Salter s.sal...@ed.ac.uk
To: dianabron...@gmail.com
Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com; Parker, Andrew
andrew.par...@royalsociety.org
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 4:56
A propos Alvia's final point below, I once listened to an extremely
interesting talk by a paleo-climatologist whose name I fear I have now
forgotten. He said that Antarctic climate was once much like the Arctic's
due to a warm current that flowed down the East side of Australia, mirroring
the
Dear Andy
With respect, it is not a question of certainty in relation to Blanchon's
work, but likelihood.
Article 3.3 of the Convention commits the Parties to take cost-effective
action in the event of threats [not certainties] of serious or irreversible
damage without delay on account of
Quite right Stephen. Reversibility is an important consideration and the
possibility of overshooting with policy measures and needing to burn a lot
of coal fast seems to me to be one of the many good reasons for leaving it
in the ground now. But if we run out of coal there's still those
This correspondence is all very interesting and S aerosol cloud albedo
modification, though having some risks, needs to be researched as a stand-by,
as Ken says (along with John Holdren in his more unguarded moments).
What I cannot understand is the continuing silence/lack of interest in the
years to reach the light of day through the formal peer review process [
Climatic Change, 87/3-4 (2008) Biosphere carbon stock management: addressing
the threat of abrupt climate change in the next few decades: an editorial essay
Peter Read 305-320) ] and
Cthat I don't have the modelling
consideration of this zero-option, so people are largely unaware of
its consequences.
A
2009/4/25 Peter Read pre...@attglobal.net
Hi folks
John does me too much credit with the word 'modest'. Thought I had
circulated, actually, but as it seems not, the word is 'forgetful
: Ken Caldeira kcalde...@globalecology.stanford.edu
To: j...@cloudworld.co.uk
Cc: andrew.lock...@gmail.com; Peter Read pre...@attglobal.net;
geoengineering geoengineering@googlegroups.com;
brian.laun...@manchester.ac.uk; Davies, John john.dav...@foe.co.uk
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:52 AM
Subject
Trying again - seems I sent it from the wrong e-mail address at 8.48
- Original Message -
From: Peter Read
To: John Nissen ; Stephen Salter ; Pope, Vicky
Cc: geoengineering ; brian.laun...@manchester.ac.uk
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: NOAA release
Sadly
...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Read
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 8:17 AM
To: j...@cloudworld.co.uk; Alvia Gaskill; s.sal...@ed.ac.uk;
rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu
Cc: kcalde...@dge.stanford.edu; Andrew Lockley; xbenf...@aol.com;
geoengineering@googlegroups.com; brian.laun...@manchester.ac.uk
Gregory
Many thanks.
I would like to know more about the CROPS program if you have a reference
But a propos when the trees die, they don't die under commercial
forrestation but get cut down when growth slows and the rate of increase of
value falls below the operator's cost of borrowing. When
260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA
kcalde...@ciw.edu; kcalde...@stanford.edu
http://dge.stanford.edu/DGE/CIWDGE/labs/caldeiralab
+1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM, Peter Read pre...@attglobal.net wrote:
Gregory
Many thanks.
I
focused on
achieving technological progress in that direction - e.g. the Manhattan project
- is very different from statistics of past performance
Peter
- Original Message -
From: Ken Caldeira
To: Peter Read
Cc: xbenf...@aol.com ; geoengineering@googlegroups.com ; Leonard
Think you have misread the age restriction
It seems to say over 16
That gives your young german savant a couple of years to perfect his or her
English
Probably not needed as young Germans seem to speak better English than most
Anglo-Saxons
Peter
- Original Message -
From: Alvia Gaskill
The piece circulated previously was two weeks before the Bali conference, i.e.
18 months ago.
It is interersting and important that he is reiterating his previous concern
Peter
PS
Re John's technical problem, I turned my laptop on its side
With a desktop I guess print it out and turn the paper
Yes, well said John.
Regardless of what many (not I) regard as doom and gloom scaremongering, an
important paper in Science (Wise et al Vol 324 pp1183-1186) shows that is
extremely costly to rely on emissions reductions alone to achieve any given
level of CO2 below b.a.u.. This may provide
Hi Ken, hi Mike
Re I was suprised my email received so little attention, but it is becoming
obvious that my perspectives are becoming irrelevant to this group I very much
hope this does not mean that, fount of knowledge Ken, you are abandoning us.
As I think Ken knows, I put in a submission
Sometime back there was quite a literature about sunspot correlations with
economic activity
So far as I recollect, its intent was to warn about infering causality from
correlation
I used to ask my students whether the clouds were hurrying by because the
trees were tickling their tummies ? or
It is extremely disappointing to me that Biosphere Carbon Stock Management
(BCSM) is not on the agenda
It provides the only practicable way of getting carbon out of the atmosphere
while facilitating rapid reductions in emissions through substituting
sustainably sourced biomass for fossil
Sending again as this failed to go to to the group 12 hours ago due to an
error on my part
Cheers
Peter
- Original Message -
From: Peter Read pe...@read.org.nz
To: John Gorman gorm...@waitrose.com
Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com; Alan Gadain a...@env.leeds.ac.uk;
m@unsw.edu.au
Treating the outcome of scenarios as a sample from the probability
distribution function of what the real world actually is, Harvard economist
Weitzman showed last year that the post hoc pdf would be a student-T
distribution having a 'fat tail' that gives far greater weight to extreme
events
cool the SO region by 10 C.
Sincerely,
Oliver Wingenter
From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com
[mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Read
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:31 PM
To: agask...@nc.rr.com; kelly.wan...@gmail.com;
geoengineering
of temperature or the temperature increase. Visit
http://ecf.pik-potsdam.de/Events/previous-events/ipcc-conference-1/ipcc_conf_2007/Peter-Read-Berlin%20IPCC%20statement.pdf/view
for the original presentation of my argument that we need to limit the
integral of the CO2 level (roughly the double integral
could lead to domino effects in relation to methane emissions
and the stability of Greenland's ice cover. We may need some SRM technologies,
and we may need them soon, so we had better learn about them.
Wake up, wise up and stop telling terminological inexactitudes.
Peter Read
- Original
Re We tend to focus on the Atlantic because that's where most of us live.
Most of us Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Philippinos, Vietnamese, Indonesians,
Micronesians, Ozzies, Kiwis, etc live on the Pacific
We may not have as much money but there are more of us
Oh, and Californians, Chileans,
then truly it is 'the Age of Stupid'
Peter Read
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probably I'm being stupid but it seems to me that if earth is tilted a bit more
it will present more arctic to the sun in the northern summer and more
antarctic to the sun in the southern summer ?? And ditto for elipticity
(though I don't think it needs coincide with tilt?)??. As for
Hi Ken, John
Re If you turn off solar deflection you would get rapid warming (no overshoot,
but a rapid rebound).
Rapid rebound to the rate of warming that you would be at had the SRM not been
going on
But not rapid rebound to where you would be had the SRM not been going on.
Because anything
Presumably you could do a small release over 100km^2 of Alaska and fly over
it to see if there were indeed any local whitening
Maybe use some 18O2 isotope to trace where it goes to?
Peter
- Original Message -
From: Alan Robock rob...@envsci.rutgers.edu
To:
On the contrary Manu
We are trying to understand the relationship between a variety of SRM and CDR
technologies to see if we can find a way to cool the earth (to avert threats of
polar meltdown that will inundate many highly fertile delta regions) without
threatening critical regional patterns
I have wondered why this message has not appeared on the geoengineering ste and
now discover I inadvertantly sent it only to Manu
Better late than never
Peter
- Original Message -
From: Peter Read
To: Manu Sharma
Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: [geo] Re
Should we reserve catastrophe for a domino sequence in which retreating
Arctic sea ice precipitates irreversible positive feedback warming that sees
the sea ice gone in, say, about a decade, which causes further warming that
melts tundra to a depth where soil/peat is permanently unfrozen and
Albert
Seems to me he might ask what can we do about it?
Famously he once remarked it's the economy stupid
So have a KISS [Keep It Stupid Simple ] response ready
Grow a lot of trees -- and be ready to shoot sulphur into the Arctic
stratosphere
If he asks why tell him that both are
a..
Whatever their nav aids, the folklore I have received is that they took the
precaution of paddling upwind, against the Easterly tradewinds, so that they
could sail home again if they found no land. When they explored further South
from the Cook Islands the winds started blowing from the West
. Keep it simple.
*From:* geoengineering@googlegroups.com
[mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Peter Read
*Sent:* Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:32 AM
*To:* Albert Kallio
*Cc:* Geoengineering; j...@cloudworld.co.uk; Mike MacCracken; Andrew
Lockley
*Subject:* [geo] Re: One
Yes, really helpful to understanding. Thanks to all -- mostly Alvia I think
it is
Re [[somewhere down this message, not quite sure who said what]]
Volcanic SO2 is so efficient at cooling the earth because it reaches a
layer
in the stratosphere with primarily horizontal winds that spread it
Alan,
I would not want to be alligned with any gung-ho brigade, but I do think it is
foolish to emphasize the risks of geoengineering to the neglect of the risks of
relying solely on emissions reductions.
I think selected technologies that pass the test of scale, of reversibility, of
- Original Message -
From: Leslie Field
To: Peter Read
Cc: Leslie Field
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: [geo] Re: Manifesto for Geoengineering
Hi Peter,
My email reply to you didn't post to the google group, as I'm not a member.
Not sure that's an action
defined as the deliberate large scale intervention in the Earth's climate
system, in order to moderate global warming (Royal Society Policy Document
10/09, para 3)
visit http://royalsociety.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=35151
- Original Message -
From: Frank Parry jzboc...@yahoo.com
To:
:32 PM
Subject: [geo] Re: Question.
Sounds interesting! I am looking forward to finding out more
information
On Sep 23, 11:09 pm, Peter Read pre...@attglobal.net wrote:
defined as the deliberate large scale intervention in the Earth's climate
system, in order to moderate global warming (Royal
Ken
I like to know who it is
But I don't like to think of it becoming a burden for you
Loose control with collective back-up, as you suggest, seems a fair
compromise
Peter
- Original Message -
From: Ken Caldeira kcalde...@gmail.com
To: geoengineering geoengineering@googlegroups.com
-
*From:* Peter Read mailto:pre...@attglobal.net
*To:* Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
mailto:Geoengineering@googlegroups.com
*Cc:* Leslie Field mailto:les...@ice911.org
*Sent:* Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:00 PM
*Subject:* For info Fw: [geo] Re: Manifesto
:
Geoengineering List (with some ccs): Earlier today, Peter Read used my
name (Ron Larson - now a new member of this list) in connection with
Biochar - saying / //despite Royal Society nonsense based apparently on
a submission from a scientifically ill-qualified NGO - Ron may care to
comment
. tilling for bio-oil not drilling for fossil
oil).
Peter.
- Original Message -
From: Ken Caldeira
To: Manu Sharma
Cc: Peter Read ; simev...@gmail.com ; geoengineering
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 8:18 PM
Subject: [geo] Re: Manifesto for Geoengineering
How many watts
??
- Original Message -
From: Ron Larson rongretlar...@comcast.net
To: kcalde...@stanford.edu
Cc: Stephen Salter s.sal...@ed.ac.uk; Manu Sharma
orangeh...@gmail.com; Peter Read pre...@attglobal.net;
simev...@gmail.com; geoengineering geoengineering@googlegroups.com;
wayne.ba...@decc.gsi.gov.uk
John, Gene, Sam and all
How do we send an open letter to COP!5? OK address it to Yves de Boer, but
he will have a lot of things on his mind.
THIS IS A BUNFIGHT WITH THOUSANDS [YES, THOUSANDS] OF PEOPLE MILLING ABOUT,
MAINLY THERE FOR NETWORKING. IF YOU WANTED A PLATFORM YOU HAD TO APPLY FOR
Just a thought
Once you've got the ice bergs to stop near an entrance to this or some other
channel then maybe spend all winter spraying salt water onto it that freezes
and gradually weighs the bergs down till they sit on the bottom. Then spray
some more on so it sits on the bottom good and
:36 am, Peter Read pre...@attglobal.net wrote:
Just a thought
Once you've got the ice bergs to stop near an entrance to this or some
other channel then maybe spend all winter spraying salt water onto it that
freezes and gradually weighs the bergs down till they sit on the bottom.
Then spray
Re: [geo] Re: [CCP] Grow trees fast and bury them?I am reluctant to burden this
list with a very long message, but for those interested I append some
references to work I finished a decade ago but was little noticed (peer review
imperialism again) by an economics profession heavily bent on
Re: [geo] ERL papers on lineThere's no way that increasing CO2 emissions can be
significantly slowed any time soon. There's 5 billion people out there that
want the lifestyle they see 2 billion Westerners enjoying on TV
So the answer has to be to get 10 GtC / yr out of the atmosphere, and a bit
To: Peter Read pre...@attglobal.net
Cc: kcalde...@carnegie.stanford.edu; oemor...@googlemail.com; David
Keith ke...@ucalgary.ca; j...@etcgroup.org; geoengineering
geoengineering@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Arguments against geoengineering AND [geo] ERL papers
Hi Alan
Not clear what you mean by pro-geoengineering at this point.
If you mean pro-large-scale-deployment-of-half-baked-schemes I agree.
If you mean small and medium scale deployment to learn more about schemes
for saving Arctic sea-ice I disagree
On the other hand I would like to see research
John
If it is to impact on policy -- I guess policy-makers are the intended audience
but how to get the message to them is another question -- it is important to
realise there are quite likely a fair number of deniers out there. It is no
good just saying [or implying] they are wrong since
to deploy a proven technology quickly,
if/when the situation calls for it
Peter
- Original Message -
From: Mike MacCracken
To: Peter Read ; John Nissen ; Ken Caldeira
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:49 AM
Subject: Re: [geo] A simple argument for SRM geoengineering, again
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