Re: [Gimp-developer] Help with gimp directory structure
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:18:08 -0400, Jean-Sebastien Senecal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Øyvind Kolås wrote: > >On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:13:54 +0200, Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >>Hi, > >> > >>Jean-Sebastien Senecal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>>I'm working on an open-source software for real-time mix-medias, > >>>similar to Puredata. We've started using part of the Gimp code for > >>>image processing. For now, I was able to move the composition > >>>functions in paint-funcs. However, since the functions are not > >>>documented, I find it often difficult to know what this or this is > >>>doing. Plus, I don't understand well how the files are organized. > >>> > >>> > >>You are trying to reuse the part of the GIMP code that we would like > >>to get rid of the sooner the better. The basic image manipulation > >>routines date back to the early days of GIMP development and haven't > >>seen the refactoring that all other parts of the code have gone > >>through. I would not suggest to use this code at all. You should > >>consider to use GEGL instead. But then, GEGL is probably not at the > >>point yet where it would fulfill your needs. > >> > >> > > > >gggl ( http://pippin.gimp.org/gggl/ ) might be a starting point, since > >gggl aims to > >be API compatible with a future GEGL. If you are going to use such functionality > >from a higher level programming language a future migration should be easy. > > > >At the moment I've been mainly focusing on high quality, rather than high speed > >and thus implemented most of the image processing only for floating > >point buffers. > >The system is designed to allow for optimizations in the form of > >adding 8bit/16bit versions of operations alongside the floating point > >versions. > > > >My intention is to port my abstractions on top of gggl to GEGL, and thus my > >tool chain from gggl to GEGL, after that porting the operations is one > >of my priorities. > > > >Depending on how urgent your needs are,. if you have some time to > >spend helping out with GEGL development in the near future, that would > >also be greatly appreciated. > Actually, part of the software we are currently developping is pretty > similar to gggl. However, what we fear is that : > 1) gggl as well as GEGL are not implemented with real-time processing in > mind I have been successfully using gggl in interactive displays, at the moment I focus more strongly on being correct than being fast, adding 8bit support; in addition to floating point, to the needed/most used operations is all that would be needed for software optimizing. It might also be feasible to hardware accelerate some operations. > 2) none of them tries to integrate audio Work has started on integrating audio in gggl, my initial approach works for non real time rendering,. (dropping video frames is acceptable, dropping audio fragments is not). Thus audio and video needs to be separated, the simplest robust way to implement synchronized playback is to have audio and video in separate threads syncing the video thread to the audio time. Having them in separate threads would be easiest by splitting audio/video handling. >> What we're really looking for, and would like to contribute to in the > near future if such a project takes place, would be a library that > generalizes the concept of graphical flow to both audio and video (and, > maybe, other inputs like signals from sensors or even chains of words) > and that tries to integrate very efficient processing algorithms for at > least the basic effects (like image compositions). I haven't heard of > such a project for now. Another project you maybe haven't heard about that can be interesting to look at is: http://mlt.sourceforge.net/ Although the intentions of those projects somewhat differ from the things you plan to do. /pippin | Øyvind Kolås -- Software patents hinder progress | http://swpat.ffii.org/ Web : http://pippin.gimp.org/ ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
RE: [Gimp-developer] first impressions of GIMP 2.0
[Adding a layer mask] > >> Huh? Go to the Layers menu, choose "Add Layer Mask". Also available > >> from the right-click menu in the Layers dialog. > > > I couldnt actually access this - it was greyed out completely. > > You can't add a layer mask to a layer that doesn't have an alpha > channel. Hmm - perhaps the best interface here would be to always have the "Add Layer Mask" menu option available, but if there's no alpha channel then popup a dialog saying something like "Adding a layer mask requires the image to have an alpha channel. Would you like me to add one? Yes: / No" (default yes, tickbox (unchecked) for "don't ask me again"). This is similar in spirit to the file export dialogs that automatically convert your image into something the file save plugin can handle (ie flatten etc). It's the DWIM (Do What I Mean) school of UI design, where you try and guess what the user is actually trying to do :) Austin ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] first impressions of GIMP 2.0
Hi, "Austin Donnelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Hmm - perhaps the best interface here would be to always have the > "Add Layer Mask" menu option available, but if there's no alpha > channel then popup a dialog saying something like "Adding a layer > mask requires the image to have an alpha channel. Would you like me > to add one? Yes: / No" (default yes, tickbox (unchecked) for "don't > ask me again"). Sure, that' what should be done and I remember that we agreed that graying out menus is a bad idea. Now we just need someone to actually do it. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: OT Re: [Gimp-developer] my comments and sudden disappearance
On Wednesday 27 October 2004 04:13, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > Michael Schumacher wrote: > > miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > >> This is completely ridiculous, especially random threats of lawsuits > >> for typos. > > > > Both of you, continue this discussion off-list, please! > > And please note that participants of a mailing lists and the mailing > > list itself are different things. Thanks. > > My point is exactly the same as yours - I was receiving unpleasant and > unsolicited mail off-list, and wished to draw such abuse of the list to > the attention of the list manager. I do not want to keep receiving abuse > off-list, and the best way to put this to an end, and to make such abuse > of list addresses cease, was to make such practises known on-list. > Hi Ms. Clinton! Listen, I read Grant's E-mail and it is not unpleasant or unsolicited mail. He was just politely remarking on your web-sites. It is considered a common practice in the Internet to visit homepages of people one encounters and then remark to them about them in private. Nothing wrong's here. It's considered part of the Internet socializing. You are making a fuss out of nothing. And as for J. Grant - I don't understand why he needs to press charges here. Regards, Shlomi Fish > However, I consider the matter dropped. If Jonathon wishes to rant on, > let him do so at his discretion. > > Given his behaviour, though, it has left a sour taste in my mouth about > contributing to GNU projects at all, if this is the kind of response I > get - unsolicited criticism of projects irrelevant to the subject at > hand. If all non-programmer non-exclusive-GNU-users get this kind of > treatment when they try to help port to a professional standard, and > bug-test that standard - which is what we are aiming at - then GNU > projects will get nowhere. > > mC~ -- - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] first impressions of GIMP 2.0
On Tuesday 26 October 2004 23:35, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > That sounds promising - I'll look forward to it. > > Again - this is a problem for designers - GIMP requires a lot of reading > of documentation to find out how the hell you're supposed to do > something (especially applying layer masks!). Designers don't like > reading docs - in fact, a lot of us are dyslexic (myself included) - > dyslexia is a common trait among artists, writers, dancers and > musicians. If you're interested in the science, it lives in the temporal > lobe of the brain alongside the artistic capabilities. > > Artists prefer to use the right hand side of the brain, to work > intuitively. This is why 1.2 in particular was so difficult to work with > - it was obviously written by coders using the left hand side of the > brain. 2.0 is a marked improvement as far as intuitivety goes. > <<< The only "intuitive" interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned. (Bruce Ediger, [EMAIL PROTECTED], in comp.os.linux.misc, on X interfaces.) >>> Intuitive for you may mean closer to how Photoshop operate. However, people who start their graphics careers with GIMP will get used to it, and will find it more intuitive. Then, they'll have difficulty using Photoshop. (that's what happened to me and others I know). "Intuitivity" is not really "intuitivity" if it means Photoshop-like. Regards, Shlomi Fish - Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage:http://www.shlomifish.org/ Knuth is not God! It took him two days to build the Roman Empire. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] Right, thats it. I'm off.
OK. I'm unsubscribing. If people want comments from an artist, thats fine. If people want to be rude, thats different. This particular artist respects her right to explore and extend the possibilities of web art, under the Freedom which those of you who I suspect are primarily US citizens would know that the Constitution respects. I design and develop, pushing forward boundaries under my own artistic freedom, and without unsolicited comments disrespecting private email addresses. If you have something to say, say it on-list, is my principle - don't go behind people's backs, and dont disrupt community development by such petty matters. I came here to give an artist's perspective - and thats what I am, an artist. I don't give a monkey's whether my site conforms to w3c standards - its a personal site, and it pushes the boundaries of web art. Perhaps the W3C committee will then come to recognise my standards - that is how the progression of art and music has always worked. Theory came later. I don't wish to give a lame representation of myself as a professional designer by conforming to a rigid set of standards which would lead me to have no clients on my book whatsoever - by developing art, I attract customers. By coming to this list, I hoped to develop our tools so that we could attract designers, who could then help develop our GNU tools and even Internet protocols to support accessibility within an artistic, attractive and, on occasion, a commercially presentable framework. I don't see this yet in the tools we have, and thats why I want to contribute from an artists perspective. But all I've received since I arrived was attack - particularly from a lurker on this list who decided to pick on someone privately about an entirely irrelevant matter. I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was linux-audio-dev. I'm leaving now, as I dont call this development - I call it disappointment. You could have had the opportunity to have an artist's commentary and some assistance in developing a professional standard tool - you'll have to wait for someone else to come along now. Someone who will put up with unsolicited, unwarranted and rude, sly, behind the back of the list, abuse. Cc'ed to RMS, who will be very disappointed in the behaviour of this list, as he invited me to help give an artists perspective of the GIMP by joining GIMP-devel in the first place. (The background to this story, for your information, was an unsolicited criticism of my websites in private email, an abuse of the email features of this list). Yours, Miriam. ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Right, thats it. I'm off.
> email addresses. If you have something to say, say it on-list, is my > principle - don't go behind people's backs, and dont disrupt community the principle is to stay on topic when sending messages to the list. commenting on your personal site is not this lists topic. > I don't give a monkey's whether my site conforms to w3c standards - its > a personal site, and it pushes the boundaries of web art. Perhaps the > W3C committee will then come to recognise my standards - that is how the > progression of art and music has always worked. Theory came later. you probably should pay more attentions to standards - if you are interested in free software. because free software browsers denpends on standards heavily. making sites non compliant to standards can make them inaccessible to people using free software (an other non free software too). however i do not know if your site is this case. i didnt check it enough. however Jonathans comment about your site was very polite and friendly and i do not get why you are so angry about it. you have the right to do your site in whatever way you choose, its visitors have the right to comment about it. and to cite from your own site: "Please feel free to get in contact with me should you have any comments or issues which you would like to discuss." > arrived was attack - particularly from a lurker on this list who decided > to pick on someone privately about an entirely irrelevant matter. he didnt attack you at all > I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the > GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, > name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never > get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was > linux-audio-dev. there are many more girls in the GNU community and there are no problems. > You could have had the opportunity to have an artist's commentary and > some assistance in developing a professional standard tool - you'll have there are more graphics professionals on the list. it doesnt mean your comments are not needed. just do not get angry when there is no reason for it. > for your information, was an unsolicited criticism of my websites in > private email, an abuse of the email features of this list). the only abuse is this offtopic conversation without any real reason. people be please more tolerant to each other. --- Jakub Friedl ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: OT Re: [Gimp-developer] my comments and sudden disappearance
Hi, "miriam clinton (iriXx)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > My point is exactly the same as yours - I was receiving unpleasant and > unsolicited mail off-list, and wished to draw such abuse of the list > to the attention of the list manager. I do not want to keep receiving > abuse off-list, and the best way to put this to an end, and to make > such abuse of list addresses cease, was to make such practises known > on-list. The only abuse that has happened here was when you forwarded a private conversation to the mailing list. This is considered very impolite and doing so repeatedly may get you kicked from the list. > Given his behaviour, though, it has left a sour taste in my mouth > about contributing to GNU projects at all, if this is the kind of > response I get - unsolicited criticism of projects irrelevant to the > subject at hand. Please keep this from the mailing list. You received, in private email, some (in my opinion very polite) criticsm about your personal web pages. That does clearly not belong here at all. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Right, thats it. I'm off.
miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: If you have something to say, say it on-list, is my principle - don't go behind people's backs, and dont disrupt community development by such petty matters. I'm afraid you should have applied this to your first off-topic post. I don't wish to give a lame representation of myself as a professional designer by conforming to a rigid set of standards which would lead me to have no clients on my book whatsoever - by developing art, I attract customers. So that's where the first misunderstanding comes from. W3C standards have nothing to do with visual prensentation. You can have the visual part of your website stay exactly the same as it is now, but also comply with standards. Of course ignoring standards can be your choice, that will just mean that many people may not see your website correctly (mainly people who like to use open-source software the more they can). I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was linux-audio-dev. Don't ever suggest that without any data to back you up, that is exactly the way to make people think "women over-exaggerate things, don't take them seriously". I can't tell anything about your linux-audio-dev experience, but don't make it sound dubious by this kind of suggestion. With the e-mails that were revealed it is plain obvious that you feminity had absolutely nothing to do with the matter. Cc'ed to RMS, who will be very disappointed in the behaviour of this list, as he invited me to help give an artists perspective of the GIMP by joining GIMP-devel in the first place. (The background to this story, for your information, was an unsolicited criticism of my websites in private email, an abuse of the email features of this list). Don't post with private e-mails if you don't want to be contacted this way. Don't promote your work in your public e-mails if you don't want 'unknown people' to look at it and give a feedback. You came here to criticize the Gimp (which means give feedback on your experience with it), and you were hoping to help it improve this way. Sad you didn't see it the same way when criticism was made to your artistic work. Karine ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Right, thats it. I'm off.
On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 03:21:29AM -0700, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: > > I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the > GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, > name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never > get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was > linux-audio-dev. > i highly recommend subscribing to the new chix list, although it was set up to help females begin with linux without the fear of some of the rude answers you can get from seasoned and busy developers -- and you received some very nice email from some of the very important developers here. it is always good, in any environment -- one you are being paid in and one you are volunteering in (it makes no difference) to see who is in charge and actually doing the work. then pay careful attention to their comments. i dont want to lose any savvy women from the community. there is somewhat of a pact, however, to use free software from the ground up. this is very difficult as well. the purists, like richard, stop before the pixels draw into the pictures your screen displays, because technically speaking, the X Server is not free. if you are going to "copyleft" something, and your page does not work in copyleft browsers, you are not helping. not a critism, a fact. the new chix list can be found at: http://www.linuxchix.org/ they can help you learn how to run free software. in that non-rude environment, please remember that there are several people on that list (like this one) who have been in "the design world" and "published authors" and writing computer software for a very very long time. show the respect that you would like to receive. you need to at least try to use free software first. please start over some and come back when you figure this free software stuff out. it is cool and fun, and i bet that you will start to be successful in many more things than just getting your computer to work in a copyleft sort of way. also, please consider that richard was flirting. it is free software so people contribute for different reasons other than financial. please maintain that relationship with richard. no one here wants to write to him anymore also carol ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Right, thats it. I'm off.
Carol Spears wrote: On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 03:21:29AM -0700, miriam clinton (iriXx) wrote: I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was linux-audio-dev. i highly recommend subscribing to the new chix list, although it was set up to help females begin with linux without the fear of some of the rude answers you can get from seasoned and busy developers -- and you received some very nice email from some of the very important developers here. it is always good, in any environment -- one you are being paid in and one you are volunteering in (it makes no difference) to see who is in charge and actually doing the work. then pay careful attention to their comments. i dont want to lose any savvy women from the community. there is somewhat of a pact, however, to use free software from the ground up. this is very difficult as well. the purists, like richard, stop before the pixels draw into the pictures your screen displays, because technically speaking, the X Server is not free. if you are going to "copyleft" something, and your page does not work in copyleft browsers, you are not helping. not a critism, a fact. the new chix list can be found at: http://www.linuxchix.org/ they can help you learn how to run free software. in that non-rude environment, please remember that there are several people on that list (like this one) who have been in "the design world" and "published authors" and writing computer software for a very very long time. show the respect that you would like to receive. once in linuxchix. i left. its full of feminists who hate men. nuff sed. i stay subbed to the techtalk section, it was the only sane bit - interestingly, the only bit with men contributing. sorry, you're teaching granny to suck eggs - i did this three years ago. i'm no n00b. over and out. mC~ -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] Right, thats it. I'm off.
i think you mis-read his series of deliberately mis-contexted letters - and i think we should stop cc'ing this rubbish now to RMS. I made my point, I'm out of here. Goodbye. mC~ Jakub Friedl, adresa do konferenci wrote: email addresses. If you have something to say, say it on-list, is my principle - don't go behind people's backs, and dont disrupt community the principle is to stay on topic when sending messages to the list. commenting on your personal site is not this lists topic. I don't give a monkey's whether my site conforms to w3c standards - its a personal site, and it pushes the boundaries of web art. Perhaps the W3C committee will then come to recognise my standards - that is how the progression of art and music has always worked. Theory came later. you probably should pay more attentions to standards - if you are interested in free software. because free software browsers denpends on standards heavily. making sites non compliant to standards can make them inaccessible to people using free software (an other non free software too). however i do not know if your site is this case. i didnt check it enough. however Jonathans comment about your site was very polite and friendly and i do not get why you are so angry about it. you have the right to do your site in whatever way you choose, its visitors have the right to comment about it. and to cite from your own site: "Please feel free to get in contact with me should you have any comments or issues which you would like to discuss." arrived was attack - particularly from a lurker on this list who decided to pick on someone privately about an entirely irrelevant matter. he didnt attack you at all I'd suggest, very strongly, as this has happened to me before in the GNU/Linux community, that this happened because I used my real, female, name. When I use my alias, iriXx, people assume I'm male, and I never get these problems. The list where this happened, by the way, was linux-audio-dev. there are many more girls in the GNU community and there are no problems. You could have had the opportunity to have an artist's commentary and some assistance in developing a professional standard tool - you'll have there are more graphics professionals on the list. it doesnt mean your comments are not needed. just do not get angry when there is no reason for it. for your information, was an unsolicited criticism of my websites in private email, an abuse of the email features of this list). the only abuse is this offtopic conversation without any real reason. people be please more tolerant to each other. --- Jakub Friedl -- 99% of aliens prefer Earth --Eminem www.iriXx.org www.copyleftmedia.org.uk ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] open thumbnail and raw files
The gimp Open Image dialog contains preview thumbnail. To generate them, gimp calls the plugin to generate them. Now, for raw digital camera files (.nef, .crw ...) this is a very expensive operation - and obviously one would love to use the prepared/pre-stored thumbnail which exists in the file. From what I could see, there is no way I (the plugin author) can detect if the call is for a thumbnail or not. Can someone tell me if I am right or wrong? If wrong - how do I do it? If right, is there a chance this can be changed? Thanks, Joseph ___ Gimp-developer mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
