Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/05/2016 12:12 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote: On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Elle Stone wrote: On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Supposing the option was renamed to be more explicit about what it does, would it still bother you? Making color

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Elle Stone wrote: > On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: >> >> Supposing the option was renamed to be more explicit about what it >> does, would it still bother you? > > Making color management "disappear" for users

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Gez wrote: >> There is also flipping to/from formats with alpha. Pre-multiplied and >> non-premultiplied alpha. As well as flips to/from higher and lower >> bit-depths as well as to/from CIE Lab. By necessity of the operations >> involved,

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Gez wrote: > El dom, 05-06-2016 a las 09:26 +0200, Øyvind Kolås escribió: >> >> > Practical, applied color management is not that complicated. >> > Neither is >> > understanding the basics of radiometrically correct editing. >> >> Most people -

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

El dom, 05-06-2016 a las 09:26 +0200, Øyvind Kolås escribió: >  > > Practical, applied color management is not that complicated. > > Neither is > > understanding the basics of radiometrically correct editing. > > Most people - including people doing photography and graphic design > work for a

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Elle Stone wrote: >>> If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the >>> Vision >>> statement, then it's important to get input from people who actually use >>> high end workflows. Gez is exactly such a person.

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Supposing the option was renamed to be more explicit about what it does, would it still bother you? Making color management "disappear" for users who prefer to not ever think about color management (very different from "disable color

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 12:12 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Probably 90% of commits are done by a single person who is already overworked. What re-evaluation are you talking about? Is this discussion for real? You mean Mitch. Mitch is the heart and soul of GIMP. Without Mitch, where would GIMP be?

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 05:37 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote: On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Elle Stone wrote: If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the Vision statement, then it's important to get input from people who actually use high end

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Elle Stone wrote: > If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the Vision > statement, then it's important to get input from people who actually use > high end workflows. Gez is exactly such a person. I think

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, 4 Jun 2016, Elle Stone wrote: On 06/04/2016 05:28 PM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote: To be honest... We get a lot of feedback like "Where can I disable color management, it's too complicated, I don't want this, why should I want this, Paintool Sai doesn't have it, it makes my images weird in

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 05:36 PM, Elle Stone wrote: Tell them to choose sRGB as the monitor profile and the image profile. Problem solved. Oh, and set their monitor to sRGB emulation mode, if it's available. Elle ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, 4 Jun 2016, Elle Stone wrote: Keep in mind that many "don't know/don't want to know" users do manage to use high end software like PhotoShop, Krita, and Blender without the software being hampered by training wheels, belts and suspenders. To be honest... We get a lot of feedback like

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 12:12 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: What re-evaluation are you talking about? Is this discussion for real? I think there does need to be a real and on-going discussion. If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the Vision statement, then it's

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

Gez wrote: > ...GIMP doesn't provide the tools for editing such maps... Maybe I'm simply not understanding. Typically these kinds of maps get edited with color curves, layer blending modes (straight-forward mathematical ones like multiply, add, and subtract are most

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

Elle Stone wrote: > On 05/20/2016 02:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote: > > > > Elle Stone wrote: > > > >> I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color-manged > >> image in an ICC profile color-managed editing

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Elle Stone wrote: On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Including softproofing? Of course not. Given the tensions, we are not in a situation where "of course I meant something entirely

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Elle Stone wrote: >> If you have a clear vision, how color management should work in GIMP, >> please share it. > > > 1. Get rid of the babl flip code and attendant linear vs "gamma" precision > code. Rip it completely out of babl, GEGL, and GIMP. I wrote a patch

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Elle Stone wrote: > On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: >> >> Including softproofing? > > > Of course not. Given the tensions, we are not in a situation where "of course I meant something entirely different" is a sensible approach to a conversation.

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Gez hasn't posted any false information. He has. What false information? Can you be specific? I don't see any false information. Elle ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Including softproofing? Of course not. Gez wasn't talking about the new soft proofing options, and neither am I. Gez was talking about the same options that have always been the subject of this particular thread, which is to say: 1.

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Elle Stone wrote: >> And you are asking me what knowingly false information you posted? How >> about this bit above? > > > Gez hasn't posted any false information. He has. > His choice of comparing attention > to themes with attention to the big picture regarding

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 12:12 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Gez wrote: El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 18:26 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió: Why is it the goal of GIMP 2.10 to produce a GEGL-based version with feature parity with the current

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 11:53 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Gez wrote: That's what Elle has been fighting against for a long time, and that's still the problem. Fighting? Against? This is a community project. We don't fight here, we make stuff happen. Althought it

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Gez wrote: > El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 18:26 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió: >> >> Personally, I'm fine with a rant that has helpful bits of information >> in it that could be extracted. All I can extract from your rant is >> that you are

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 18:26 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió: >  > Personally, I'm fine with a rant that has helpful bits of information > in it that could be extracted. All I can extract from your rant is > that you are annoyed so much that you post knowingly false > information. What

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Gez wrote: > Do you think that my e-mail didn't provide any useful insights? It had zero technical information, only a rant. Why don't _you_ re-read it? >> People who work on themes and icons are not the same people who work >> on e.g. color management. C'mon,

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

El vie, 20-05-2016 a las 14:37 -0400, Jason van Gumster escribió: > Elle Stone wrote: > > > I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color- > > manged  > > image in an ICC profile color-managed editing application such as > > GIMP. > > I think

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Gez wrote: > Of course not, but take a quick look at the GIMP mailing lists archives > and see how much attention got that minor subject and how much > attention other important subjects receive. > > That speaks volumes about the priorities of the project. That

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 14:22 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió: > On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:25 AM, Gez wrote: > > > I'm one of the few guys around using GIMP professionally in the > > field > > of graphic design, and with each decision like this one, pointing > > to > > the wrong audience

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 11:04 +0200, Simon Budig escribió: > I don't understand your line of reasoning. Did you realize, that > Mitch > has literally spent months to make color management actually work in > Gimp - i.e. cut'n'paste between images with different color profiles > attached, color

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 10:07 +0200, Michael Schumacher escribió: > > On 06/04/2016 04:25 AM, Gez wrote: > > > The most pressing issues (like performance and quality) are > > constantly > > postponed. But hey, we have a new dark theme and new icons. > > We have these because there are people

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:25 AM, Gez wrote: > I'm one of the few guys around using GIMP professionally in the field > of graphic design, and with each decision like this one, pointing to > the wrong audience (not the audience defined in the "product vision") > I'm becoming less and less convinced

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

Hi Gez. Gez (lis...@ohweb.com.ar) wrote: > Although I share your shock, I think Michael is right. Almost nobody > using GIMP understands color management, because there is virtually > nobody using GIMP seriously, and probably nobody will because of this > kind of design decisions. [...] > Instead

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 06/04/2016 04:25 AM, Gez wrote: > The most pressing issues (like performance and quality) are constantly > postponed. But hey, we have a new dark theme and new icons. We have these because there are people interested in them and contributing to GIMP. I'm not going to tell them to stop

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

El vie, 13-05-2016 a las 00:15 +0200, Simone Karin Lehmann escribió: > >  > > The prefs option is for display color management, and will soon > > only be a default for a per-display switch. > > > > The option in Image -> New allows to disable color management > > and whatever color management

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/20/2016 02:45 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote: But perhaps the artists that create these maps are not covered in the audience specified in GIMP's vision statement. They are. Alex And the needs of artists who create these maps

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/20/2016 02:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote: Elle Stone wrote: I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color-manged image in an ICC profile color-managed editing application such as GIMP. I think I can think of one: creating

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote: > But perhaps the artists that create these maps are not covered in the audience > specified in GIMP's vision statement. They are. Alex ___ gimp-developer-list mailing list List address:

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

Elle Stone wrote: > I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color-manged > image in an ICC profile color-managed editing application such as GIMP. I think I can think of one: creating displacement/bump maps (often used as textures in 3D

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/16/2016 11:43 AM, Michael Natterer wrote: On Mon, 2016-05-16 at 17:26 +0200, Michael Natterer wrote: 2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image". That definitely not, but I will immediately add tooltips saying that it is the same as choosing sRGB. Done, this should

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Mon, 2016-05-16 at 17:26 +0200, Michael Natterer wrote: >  > > 2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image". > That definitely not, but I will immediately add tooltips saying that > it is the same as choosing sRGB. Done, this should be more obvious now: commit

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sun, 2016-05-15 at 09:28 -0400, Elle Stone wrote: > On 05/15/2016 08:14 AM, Elle Stone wrote: > > > > 2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image". > And make this option be *un*checked by default, of course. So the > image  > by default is color-managed in the normal way. And

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Sun, 2016-05-15 at 08:14 -0400, Elle Stone wrote: > On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: > > > > On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 08:46 -0400, Elle Stone wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color > > > > Management". The option is checked by

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/12/2016 10:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: You are pretty much saying that it is wrong to force freedom of choice upon people. This doesn't make any sense. Well certainly the current "Image/Color Management" options do offer users a lot of choices. But the same choices already were

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: The option in Image -> New allows to disable color management and whatever color management transforms on a per-image base. What specifically is included in "color management transforms"? This is mainly because almost nobody understands what

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/15/2016 08:14 AM, Elle Stone wrote: 2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image". And make this option be *un*checked by default, of course. So the image by default is color-managed in the normal way. And checking the new option would make GIMP treat the image "as if"

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 08:46 -0400, Elle Stone wrote: >There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color >Management". The option is checked by default. For sRGB images, >checking >or unchecking the option doesn't seem to make any

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

13 мая 2016 г. 1:22 пользователь "Simone Karin Lehmann" написал: > Is this how you think about all the people who use GIMP? That almost none of them understands color management? There are probably a few dozens of people in the world who really do understand CM. It's one of

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

> Am 12.05.2016 um 21:56 schrieb Michael Natterer : > > >> What is the purpose of this new option? It doesn't do the same thing >> as >> going to Preferences and selecting "Color Management/Mode of >> operation/No color management". > > The prefs option is for display color

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 16:28 -0400, Elle Stone wrote: > On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: > > > > The prefs option is for display color management, and will soon > > only be a default for a per-display switch. > What does the above sentence mean? > > Specifically what does

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote: The prefs option is for display color management, and will soon only be a default for a per-display switch. What does the above sentence mean? Specifically what does "per-display switch" mean? Is this for multi-monitor support? Or something

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Thursday, May 12, 2016, Michael Natterer wrote: > > Most people dealing with photos do know their colors however > and have it on, and have the right profiles. > > The sane choice way to let users disable it, rather than > forcing it upon them. > > Agreed. -- pat david

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 08:46 -0400, Elle Stone wrote: > There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color  > Management". The option is checked by default. For sRGB images, > checking  > or unchecking the option doesn't seem to make any difference. Exactly, even without a profile,

Re: [Gimp-developer] New Image/Color Management option

On 05/12/2016 09:05 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Elle Stone wrote: There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color Management". The option is checked by default. For sRGB images, checking or unchecking the option doesn't seem to make any