On 06/05/2016 12:12 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Elle Stone
wrote:
On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Supposing the option was renamed to be more explicit about what it
does, would it still bother you?
Making color management "disappear" for users
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 3:48 AM, Elle Stone
wrote:
> On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
>>
>> Supposing the option was renamed to be more explicit about what it
>> does, would it still bother you?
>
> Making color management "disappear" for users who prefer to not ever think
> abou
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Gez wrote:
>> There is also flipping to/from formats with alpha. Pre-multiplied and
>> non-premultiplied alpha. As well as flips to/from higher and lower
>> bit-depths as well as to/from CIE Lab. By necessity of the operations
>> involved, working on linear data is
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 5:14 PM, Gez wrote:
> El dom, 05-06-2016 a las 09:26 +0200, Øyvind Kolås escribió:
>>
>> > Practical, applied color management is not that complicated.
>> > Neither is
>> > understanding the basics of radiometrically correct editing.
>>
>> Most people - including people doin
El dom, 05-06-2016 a las 09:26 +0200, Øyvind Kolås escribió:
>
> > Practical, applied color management is not that complicated.
> > Neither is
> > understanding the basics of radiometrically correct editing.
>
> Most people - including people doing photography and graphic design
> work for a livi
On Sun, Jun 5, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Elle Stone
wrote:
>>> If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the
>>> Vision
>>> statement, then it's important to get input from people who actually use
>>> high end workflows. Gez is exactly such a person. I think I qualify,
>>> though
>>
On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Supposing the option was renamed to be more explicit about what it
does, would it still bother you?
Making color management "disappear" for users who prefer to not ever
think about color management (very different from "disable color
managem
On 06/04/2016 12:12 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Probably 90% of commits are done by a single person who is already
overworked. What re-evaluation are you talking about? Is this
discussion for real?
You mean Mitch. Mitch is the heart and soul of GIMP. Without Mitch,
where would GIMP be?
On 06/04/2016 05:37 PM, Øyvind Kolås wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Elle Stone
wrote:
If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the Vision
statement, then it's important to get input from people who actually use
high end workflows. Gez is exactly such a person.
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Elle Stone
wrote:
> If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the Vision
> statement, then it's important to get input from people who actually use
> high end workflows. Gez is exactly such a person. I think I qualify, though
> I'm not a pro
On Sat, 4 Jun 2016, Elle Stone wrote:
On 06/04/2016 05:28 PM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
To be honest... We get a lot of feedback like "Where can I disable color
management, it's too complicated, I don't want this, why should I want
this,
Paintool Sai doesn't have it, it makes my images weird in fi
On 06/04/2016 05:36 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
Tell them to choose sRGB as the monitor profile and the image profile.
Problem solved.
Oh, and set their monitor to sRGB emulation mode, if it's available.
Elle
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On Sat, 4 Jun 2016, Elle Stone wrote:
Keep in mind that many "don't know/don't want to know" users do manage to use
high end software like PhotoShop, Krita, and Blender without the software
being hampered by training wheels, belts and suspenders.
To be honest... We get a lot of feedback like
On 06/04/2016 05:28 PM, Boudewijn Rempt wrote:
To be honest... We get a lot of feedback like "Where can I disable color
management, it's too complicated, I don't want this, why should I want
this,
Paintool Sai doesn't have it, it makes my images weird in firefox, you guys
suck".
Tell them to ch
On 06/04/2016 12:12 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
What re-evaluation are you talking about? Is this
discussion for real?
I think there does need to be a real and on-going discussion.
If GIMP is being developed for high end workflows as specified in the
Vision statement, then it's important
Gez wrote:
> ...GIMP doesn't provide the tools for editing such maps...
Maybe I'm simply not understanding. Typically these kinds of maps get edited
with color curves, layer blending modes (straight-forward mathematical ones
like multiply, add, and subtract are most intuitive), and painting. Ho
Elle Stone wrote:
> On 05/20/2016 02:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote:
> >
> > Elle Stone wrote:
> >
> >> I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color-manged
> >> image in an ICC profile color-managed editing application such as GIMP.
> >
> > I think I can think of one: c
On 06/04/2016 02:50 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
2. "File/New/Color manage this image".
Unchecking this option does NOT disable color management, but merely
assigns the GIMP built in sRGB profile to the image, which is already the
default color profile for new images.
Supposing the option was re
On 06/04/2016 02:21 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Including softproofing?
Of course not.
Given the tensions, we are not in a situation where "of course I meant
something entirely differ
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
>> If you have a clear vision, how color management should work in GIMP,
>> please share it.
>
>
> 1. Get rid of the babl flip code and attendant linear vs "gamma" precision
> code. Rip it completely out of babl, GEGL, and GIMP. I wrote a patch for
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 9:04 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
> On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
>>
>> Including softproofing?
>
>
> Of course not.
Given the tensions, we are not in a situation where "of course I meant
something entirely different" is a sensible approach to a
conversation.
On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Gez hasn't posted any false information.
He has.
What false information? Can you be specific? I don't see any false
information.
Elle
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On 06/04/2016 01:50 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
Including softproofing?
Of course not.
Gez wasn't talking about the new soft proofing options, and neither am
I. Gez was talking about the same options that have always been the
subject of this particular thread, which is to say:
1. "Imag
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 8:11 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
>> And you are asking me what knowingly false information you posted? How
>> about this bit above?
>
>
> Gez hasn't posted any false information.
He has.
> His choice of comparing attention
> to themes with attention to the big picture regarding
On 06/04/2016 12:12 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Gez wrote:
El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 18:26 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:
Why is it the goal of GIMP 2.10 to produce a GEGL-based version
with
feature parity with the current stable?
Where did you eve
On 06/04/2016 11:53 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Gez wrote:
That's what Elle has been fighting against for a long time, and that's
still the problem.
Fighting? Against? This is a community project. We don't fight here,
we make stuff happen. Althought it look
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:52 PM, Gez wrote:
> El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 18:26 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:
>>
>> Personally, I'm fine with a rant that has helpful bits of information
>> in it that could be extracted. All I can extract from your rant is
>> that you are annoyed so much that y
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Gez wrote:
> That's what Elle has been fighting against for a long time, and that's
> still the problem.
Fighting? Against? This is a community project. We don't fight here,
we make stuff happen. Althought it looks like you really, really want
to fight.
"Support f
El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 18:26 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:
>
> Personally, I'm fine with a rant that has helpful bits of information
> in it that could be extracted. All I can extract from your rant is
> that you are annoyed so much that you post knowingly false
> information.
What "kn
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:24 PM, Gez wrote:
> Do you think that my e-mail didn't provide any useful insights?
It had zero technical information, only a rant. Why don't _you_ re-read it?
>> People who work on themes and icons are not the same people who work
>> on e.g. color management. C'mon, Gez
El vie, 20-05-2016 a las 14:37 -0400, Jason van Gumster escribió:
> Elle Stone wrote:
>
> > I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color-
> > manged
> > image in an ICC profile color-managed editing application such as
> > GIMP.
>
> I think I can think of one: creating disp
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 6:00 PM, Gez wrote:
> Of course not, but take a quick look at the GIMP mailing lists archives
> and see how much attention got that minor subject and how much
> attention other important subjects receive.
>
> That speaks volumes about the priorities of the project.
That spe
El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 14:22 +0300, Alexandre Prokoudine escribió:
> On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:25 AM, Gez wrote:
>
> > I'm one of the few guys around using GIMP professionally in the
> > field
> > of graphic design, and with each decision like this one, pointing
> > to
> > the wrong audience (not
El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 11:04 +0200, Simon Budig escribió:
> I don't understand your line of reasoning. Did you realize, that
> Mitch
> has literally spent months to make color management actually work in
> Gimp - i.e. cut'n'paste between images with different color profiles
> attached, color mana
El sáb, 04-06-2016 a las 10:07 +0200, Michael Schumacher escribió:
>
> On 06/04/2016 04:25 AM, Gez wrote:
>
> > The most pressing issues (like performance and quality) are
> > constantly
> > postponed. But hey, we have a new dark theme and new icons.
>
> We have these because there are people in
On Sat, Jun 4, 2016 at 5:25 AM, Gez wrote:
> I'm one of the few guys around using GIMP professionally in the field
> of graphic design, and with each decision like this one, pointing to
> the wrong audience (not the audience defined in the "product vision")
> I'm becoming less and less convinced t
Hi Gez.
Gez (lis...@ohweb.com.ar) wrote:
> Although I share your shock, I think Michael is right. Almost nobody
> using GIMP understands color management, because there is virtually
> nobody using GIMP seriously, and probably nobody will because of this
> kind of design decisions.
[...]
> Instead
On 06/04/2016 04:25 AM, Gez wrote:
> The most pressing issues (like performance and quality) are constantly
> postponed. But hey, we have a new dark theme and new icons.
We have these because there are people interested in them and
contributing to GIMP.
I'm not going to tell them to stop doing
El vie, 13-05-2016 a las 00:15 +0200, Simone Karin Lehmann escribió:
> >
> > The prefs option is for display color management, and will soon
> > only be a default for a per-display switch.
> >
> > The option in Image -> New allows to disable color management
> > and whatever color management tran
On 05/20/2016 02:45 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote:
But perhaps the artists that create these maps are not covered in the audience
specified in GIMP's vision statement.
They are.
Alex
And the needs of artists who create these maps a
On 05/20/2016 02:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote:
Elle Stone wrote:
I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color-manged
image in an ICC profile color-managed editing application such as GIMP.
I think I can think of one: creating displacement/bump maps (often used as
text
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 9:37 PM, Jason van Gumster wrote:
> But perhaps the artists that create these maps are not covered in the audience
> specified in GIMP's vision statement.
They are.
Alex
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Elle Stone wrote:
> I can't think of a single use case for trying to edit a non-color-manged
> image in an ICC profile color-managed editing application such as GIMP.
I think I can think of one: creating displacement/bump maps (often used as
textures in 3D graphics). Often in that case, pixel
On 05/16/2016 11:43 AM, Michael Natterer wrote:
On Mon, 2016-05-16 at 17:26 +0200, Michael Natterer wrote:
2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image".
That definitely not, but I will immediately add tooltips saying that
it is the same as choosing sRGB.
Done, this should b
On Mon, 2016-05-16 at 17:26 +0200, Michael Natterer wrote:
>
> > 2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image".
> That definitely not, but I will immediately add tooltips saying that
> it is the same as choosing sRGB.
Done, this should be more obvious now:
commit c0fb1362034fb4da
On Sun, 2016-05-15 at 09:28 -0400, Elle Stone wrote:
> On 05/15/2016 08:14 AM, Elle Stone wrote:
> >
> > 2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image".
> And make this option be *un*checked by default, of course. So the
> image
> by default is color-managed in the normal way. And
On Sun, 2016-05-15 at 08:14 -0400, Elle Stone wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 08:46 -0400, Elle Stone wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color
> > > > Management". The option is checked by
On 05/12/2016 10:31 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
You are pretty much saying that it is wrong to force freedom of choice upon
people. This doesn't make any sense.
Well certainly the current "Image/Color Management" options do offer
users a lot of choices. But the same choices already were th
On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:
The option in Image -> New allows to disable color management
and whatever color management transforms on a per-image base.
What specifically is included in "color management transforms"?
This is mainly because almost nobody understands what thi
On 05/15/2016 08:14 AM, Elle Stone wrote:
2. Relabel the option as "Assume this image is an sRGB image".
And make this option be *un*checked by default, of course. So the image
by default is color-managed in the normal way. And checking the new
option would make GIMP treat the image "as if" i
On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:
On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 08:46 -0400, Elle Stone wrote:
>There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color
>Management". The option is checked by default. For sRGB images,
>checking
>or unchecking the option doesn't seem to make any diff
13 мая 2016 г. 1:22 пользователь "Simone Karin Lehmann"
написал:
> Is this how you think about all the people who use GIMP? That almost none
of them understands color management?
There are probably a few dozens of people in the world who really do
understand CM. It's one of those things where th
> Am 12.05.2016 um 21:56 schrieb Michael Natterer :
>
>
>> What is the purpose of this new option? It doesn't do the same thing
>> as
>> going to Preferences and selecting "Color Management/Mode of
>> operation/No color management".
>
> The prefs option is for display color management, and wi
On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 16:28 -0400, Elle Stone wrote:
> On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:
> >
> > The prefs option is for display color management, and will soon
> > only be a default for a per-display switch.
> What does the above sentence mean?
>
> Specifically what does "per-displ
On 05/12/2016 03:56 PM, Michael Natterer wrote:
The prefs option is for display color management, and will soon
only be a default for a per-display switch.
What does the above sentence mean?
Specifically what does "per-display switch" mean? Is this for
multi-monitor support? Or something else
On Thursday, May 12, 2016, Michael Natterer wrote:
>
> Most people dealing with photos do know their colors however
> and have it on, and have the right profiles.
>
> The sane choice way to let users disable it, rather than
> forcing it upon them.
>
>
Agreed.
--
pat david
http://blog.patdavid.
On Thu, 2016-05-12 at 08:46 -0400, Elle Stone wrote:
> There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color
> Management". The option is checked by default. For sRGB images,
> checking
> or unchecking the option doesn't seem to make any difference.
Exactly, even without a profile, pix
On 05/12/2016 09:05 AM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color Management".
The option is checked by default. For sRGB images, checking or unchecking
the option doesn't seem to make any differ
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 3:46 PM, Elle Stone wrote:
> There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color Management".
> The option is checked by default. For sRGB images, checking or unchecking
> the option doesn't seem to make any difference.
>
> What is the purpose of this new option?
There is a new "Image/Color Management" option to "Enable Color
Management". The option is checked by default. For sRGB images, checking
or unchecking the option doesn't seem to make any difference.
What is the purpose of this new option? It doesn't do the same thing as
going to Preferences an
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