Mark,
Based on the feedback that we had received from the ESP customers, the comments
that I have received here were a surprise; I had expected the comments to have
gone in other directions.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
was delivered
are result of a commitment that we made to the ESP customers.
Please note that there was no z/OS Console Support involvement in the original
DFSMS R13 support: it was unique to DFSMS; the current support is not.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
Brian,
If you are not receiving our Interface Change Notifications (ICNs), then we
need to get that fixed. All of the automation venders that we interacted with
were notified through that process and contacted me as a result.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
Mark,
You are correct -- there is now no option to put the additional lines of
explanation in the SYSLOG/OPERLOG. We reacted to what we heard from the ESP
customers, and to quote you perhaps they overreacted. That is why I put the
post out here, to hear what other people think.
W. Kevin
, WQE, CTXT and MDB. We have been in contact with the
various automation venders and they are all aware of how to recognize verbose
message lines. We expect that most venders will choose to ignore the verbose
message lines.
Any comments/criticisms/suggestions?
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab
Looks like some words got repeated when my message got posted.
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lines optionally
go places other than JOBLOG?
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into and out of the 3838. (The 3838
looked like a tape device to FORTRAN).
Of course, many of you have found other uses for SUBSYS= since then...
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into some of them.
Brian,
I would be very curious what those problems are. Changes to z/OS for console
support and for System REXX have been out for several releases now, and
both are stable. I am not aware of any forthcoming changes that affect
either, so I am puzzled by your statement.
W. Kevin
the code is the easy part; its getting the resources to thoroughly test
what you've written that stops you dead in your tracks.
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. In general, most
testing environments give lip service to floating point.
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further comments.
Some of you have expressed concern about function going away; that was
not the intent of these questions.
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Wow! I am overwhelmed with the response so far. THANK YOU!
For those of you that I haven't heard from, PLEASE POST -- this was not a
casual query; decisions will be made on it.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
no locally-attached consoles and use the System
Console to IPL and get you through NIP before transitioning to SMCS consoles
(or some other console support requiring Comm Server to be up)?
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
On Thu, 17 Mar 2011 18:16:49 -0500, Kirk Wolf k...@dovetail.com wrote:
I recall using ASSIST and the other Waterloo interpreters
ASSIST was created by John Mashie at The Pennsylvania State University --
it did not come out of Waterloo.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical
). They will show you what information is available.
The SYSLOG mapping is IHAHCLOG (in SYS1.MODGEN). This will show you the
information that is formatted into the SYSLOG.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
.
We provide a sample program in SYS1.SAMPLIB for formatting the OPERLOG
into (readable) SYSLOG format. Note that information which cannot be fit into
the SYSLOG format is ignored by the program.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
that
things are compatible across the sysplex and if so then convert console
operations to distributed mode.
We certainly encourage you to migrate to DISTRIBUTED mode.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
The system console will use the MSCOPE and CMDSYS defined for it in
CONSOLxx. If you do not define the system console in CONSOLxx, it will be
given MSCOPE=* (this was changed from *ALL in z/OS R10) and a CMDSYS=*.
You can of course change the MSCOPE and CMDSYS by command.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM
as SYSLOG. It certainly applies
to consoles, including the various printers that we supported as output-only
consoles.
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characters in messages, we have not removed the restriction on the use of
other code-points, although we have had a proposal to do so. The proposal
died due to a lack of formal customer requirements that we fix the problem.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
written to SYSLOG and OPERLOG are formatted by Console services;
messages written to the JOBLOG are formatted by the JES. Your requirement
for greater precision in the formatted timestamp should be directed against
the JESes.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
the folks that funded and coded the initial GDPS
implementation. Other folks in z/OS found a need for hardware control and the
GDPS implement was subsequently reworked into system code. I haven't had
anything to do with it directly in quite awhile, but I do keep an eye on it.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK
On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 11:12:34 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-
m...@patriot.net wrote:
In listserv%201012281952037420.0...@bama.ua.edu, on 12/28/2010
at 07:52 PM, W. Kevin Kelley wkkel...@optonline.net said:
There is no ability to specify a destination of JOBLOG on WTO.
Doesn't
of the JESes, so if you want it, I'd suggest a formal
requirement through SHARE.
FWIW, there is the ability within an MPF exit to prevent messages from being
written to the JOBLOG. There is no equivalent on the WTO.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK -- z/OS Core Technical Development
. Unfortunately, there are few ways of
enforcing the proper construction of a multi-line message (or a single-line
message, for that matter).
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(the IKJ
component), but I'll see what I can do... It certainly wouldn't hurt to
resubmit
it as part of the SHARE requirements clean-up.
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On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 16:19:00 -0800, John Mattson
john_matt...@ea.epson.com wrote:
Continuing to voice my annoyance with zOS messages.
May I suggest that you open a formal problem with IBM for each of these?
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
in terms of the business
impact that it has on a customer. Lost productivity, lost time, etc.
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DB2 configurations (there is some
DB2 R9 service required to achieve some of this).
Many of these changes will benefit other environments that open large
numbers of data sets.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
of data sets being opened was
increased. USEZOSV1R9RULES(NO) is certainly something that we would
recommend to anyone who wants to reduce their DB2 start-up time.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
for ways of specifying on
commands that the command response message is to be returned to the
console (typically an EMCS automation console) but is not to be logged.
From the comments I've seen so far, whatever we do must be optional.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical
as Black Jack Bertram) and tell him
that his shiny new 3084 couldn't be operated (and possibly not sold) because
of the message rate problem. To put it politely, he wasn't happy. And that is
how MPF very quickly came into being, warts and all.
At least some of the warts are fixable...
W. Kevin
boundary with
appropriate Interface Change Notifications (ICNs) to the venders in advance
of the release being available.
Make sense? I'd like to hear your comments...
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM Pok Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
of ownership, and I still stick my nose into
this
stuff when (and while) I still can.
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... but that's how you learn
things
If you're questions and my answer stir up some discussion and some SHARE
requirements, we will both come out ahead. I'm always happy to answer
questions.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
probably fix or relieve the HMC side
as well. If solving this problem is important to you, then I would suggest
submitting a requirement through SHARE.
We would be interested in hearing about what you use the HMC System
Console for.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
and probably something that we'll never do, but there are things we can do
over time to further reduce the likelihood of buffer shortages and things we
can do to make them less painful.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
about what
happened and what we might be able to do to handle it more intelligently.
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is not trivial, but it is
now
eminently feasible if, though your requirements, you tell us that this is
important enough for us to work on (and not something else).
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
is no. But it sounds like an excellent SHARE
requirement...
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-- we strongly discourage use of WTL because it puts an
unformatted message into the SYSLOG/OPERLOG. Use WTO with the hardcopy-
only option set -- that way, it'll get put into the logs with the standard
timestamp, system ID etc.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
for the hardware to worry about)
and easily programmed.
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. While the HMC
system console has a number of usability problems, it does allow scrolling
backward to see messages.
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Automation to handle message floods, right?
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by
Bob Rogers at SHARE -- we're seeing what else we can speed up, and
allocation is one of the areas getting considerable attention.
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would encourage you to submit SHARE requirements as well since they carry
a lot more weight with the business folks than requests on a forum.
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in the area that Peter was talking about.
Its not, but don't let that stop you from submitting it as a requirement.
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of the Console Restructure. I don't think you
will
be able to convince us to bring anything like it back.
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in
the late 1970's when the 145's supported them but we never supported them.
I was working on JES3 spool at the time and I was intimately familiar with the
device support back then.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
that you want.
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of things to pass
across the interface. One of those was a 3270 data stream, although that
capability wasn't exploited until many years after we did the architecture work.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
didn't support? That was a long time ago
and my memory is getting fuzzy...
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but not 3375 (which I think was the FBA device).
Back in those days, every time a new DASD device came around we had to do
device support in lots of different places because each device had different
geometry.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical development
was and the error message made
sense to them. Today, BLDLs are done umpteen layers below the applications
and the message is no longer appropriate. MEMBER NOT FOUND
would make more sense. Maybe its time to blow the dust off of messages such
as these...
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS
.
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, and if
necessary, is done in the least disruptive way possible both for people and
automatons. We have made changes to certain messages so that they are
more easily automatable.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
there
was a problem, but we'd like to hear from you before we proceed.
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from the Boulder download site.
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to the lions, and I look forward to
further
discussion on this topic.
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,
The biggest I've encountered so far was around 22 z/OS images. Sorry, don't
have any of the other details. I have heard of proposals for larger 'plexes but
I
don't know if they were ever constructed.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab z/OS Core Technical Development
will have no effect on SYSLOG/OPERLOG.
As for the original problem, no idea...
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-bit.
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On Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:17:06 +0200, Barbara Nitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I still think that at one point prior to console restructure console retention
attributes were kept as part of the sysmcs xcf group (permanent status
recording). I am 100% sure that it wasn't sufficient to 'only' have
attributes. We don't do that to the extent that we used to, so the lazy
update is adequate. The primary reason we continue to propagate the
attributes to all of the systems in the sysplex is so that DISPLAY CONSOLES
will work.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
console buffers are still a
consideration. And yes we're aware that they are still a problem (though less
so after the Console Restructure).
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
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the order in which subsystems are defined to
the SSI is understood. However, we see an opportunity to speed up system
initialization time if we do not have to run the subsystem initialization
routines
serially.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
usage.
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initialization routines that run during IEFSSNxx
processing.
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purposes. See the Commands book.
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on a console. This was to
help our own automation product, but I suspect others benefit from this
change too. It does change some things though... Take a look at the R9 pubs.
Any questions, drop me a note at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab - z/OS Core Technical Development
control
block is created that represents the message. This occurs before the message
is written to the SYSLOG and well before the message is queued to any
consoles. Since z/OS R4, messages are written to SYSLOG before they are
queued to consoles.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core
in the 1970's
the system that kept track of the chips passing through the IBM East Fishkill
plant was built around Luther's radix partition trees.
You could, of course, consult Knuth...
W. Kevin Kelley IBM Pok Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development Service
I see that I screwed up and I owe Luther an apology. It should
read ...tightest assembly language programs.. There were few problems with
Luther's program (other than figuring out how they worked!).
Rick,
One of the world experts in radix partition trees is Luther Woodrum and I
suspect if you
On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:32:26 -0600, W. Kevin Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There seems to be some confusion as to what these possible changes are
and why IBM is making them.
The MCSOPER programming interface currently allows you to make a system
console inactive via the REQUEST=DEACTIVATE
There seems to be some confusion as to what these possible changes are and
why IBM is making them.
The MCSOPER programming interface currently allows you to make a system
console inactive via the REQUEST=DEACTIVATE parameter.
Note: By system console, we mean the operating system console
the
system console (the console of last resort) from being inadvertently activated
or deactivated.
Does anyone have a problem with this? If so, we'd like to hear from you. You
can post here or contact me privately by e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical
And the beauty of the SETCON MN command is that you can produce the
MONITOR messages for automation's use and NOT have them written to the
SYSLOG/OPERLOG or appear on a console if that is what you want. Much more
flexible than the old MONITOR command.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab - z/OS Core
suspect you
will have very little chance of changing their behavior. A better strategy
might
be to persuade System Automation to issue the message as an operating
system WTO rather than using the NetView service.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
from being
marked for automation on the system where the AUTO is processed (but the
message could already have been marked as AUTO on the system it originated
on). If the message is being conveyed by NetView, then MPF and the rest
never factor in.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core
.
Originally, there was the intention to use this xcf group for letting the PAMs
talk to each other, but up to now there is no need for such a communication.
In follow-on releases of SA we might use this as the communication means for
the PAMs.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical
to console support, I've also been involved in a lot of the
remote operations and automation projects (which is why you see me at the
AOTC).
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that was attached to MVS. Since we had only 99 reply IDs back
then, this tended to cause a problem. I was able to convince them to use the
MODIFY command instead.
[1] Strictly a message which had the necessary bits set to ensure that it
was a retained message.
Chris Mason
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK
us to do something like this, we don't do something else,
so you've got to tell us whether its worth the effort. Its not particularly
cheap
to do, although its cheaper since we did the SMCS support.
W. Kevin Kelley -- IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
the written documentation and the
mapping macro commentary for IEAVMXIT and the MPF exits.
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to be reworked so that it no longer depends on the
presence of the Master Console. As I recall, the WQEUCMID field was a 1-
byte console ID field. That too has gone away. TSSO needs to be updated to
use 4-byte console IDs exclusively.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
, the MRT was designed with my assistance.
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names.
Console names are now REQUIRED and this could be one of the reasons why
consoles that worked before are not being recognized. Must of the other
parameters are a bit more harmless if you forget to delete them or change
them.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
ASAP so that we can minimize customer
disruption. I'd be happy to contact the vender and work with them if you'd
care to give me a pointer.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- z/OS Core Technical Development
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quite recent and has not allowed much in the way of change to be made.
We are painfully aware of the shortcomings of the current implementation
but judged that it was more important to provide the function quickly than
to take our time and polish it.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab - z/OS Core
can
do it either way. Again, we understand that delivering the Message Flood
Automation function in a customer exit is not the best way to do this.
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functions without exits or Assembly
Language coding. FWIW, Message Flood Automation is written entirely in
Assembly Language.
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to consoles. However, in some future release, the
message will be queued by the UNKNIDS attribute rather than its one-byte
console ID because in that future release no console can have a one-byte
console ID.
W. Kevin Kelley IBM POK Lab -- Core Technical Development
z/OS Console Support is curious to know whether anyone is using the MSGRT
command. Would it bother you if it went away?
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