Exactly. JCL is just a table of data like you mentioned with the
XML/JSON comparisons. I would imagine it's used to build control blocks
like JSCB/JCT/SCT/SIOT/JFCB prior to job execution - more tables.
Maybe a bigger issue is with non-mainframe folks wondering why JCL is
there in the first
On 1/6/22 7:39 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
Actually, I low-balled the guy on e-bay and got the manuals today
and scanned them for you. Happy Holidays :)
Wow! That's mighty generous of you.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
--
For
Yeah, IF is EXEC COND in a different suit of clothes. It must control an entire
jobstep. :-(
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Nash, Jonathan S.
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 8:30 PM
To:
On 2022-01-06 20:40 PM, Bob Bridges wrote:
Other things may have seemed reasonable to the inventors of JCL, but later
usage proved there were better ways. Tough; it is what it is, now, and very
few improvements can be made to it without invalidating bazillions of lines of
existing JCL code
I would not describe JCL as a programming language anymore than a pom is a
language. Maven uses the pom XML to describe actions, dependencies and based
on its analysis actually does the execution. Not a great comparison but I
think it is consistent with JCL being a set of directives that are
Its funny you should mention that now. I was just
working on some JCL and I had just assumed that I
could set symbolics using IF THEN ELSE ENDIF:
// IF (STEP1.RC = 0) THEN
// SYMB=GOOD
// ELSE
// SYMB=BAD
// ENDIF
but I found out that BOTH SET statements are executed
no matter what the
On 7/01/2022 12:23 pm, David Crayford wrote:
I understand that it's declarative. But it has logic such as IF/THEN.
That is no reason why it couldn't have been a scripting language like
CL on AS/400.
IF/THEN was a late addition, and is probably one of the biggest problems
with JCL because
I don't know what to say... other than thank you. I'll enjoy reading
every page and spotted some details already that would have been
impossible to figure out without the docs.
-Alex
On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 09:39:01PM -0500, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
> Actually, I low-balled the guy on e-bay and
On 7/1/22 9:44 am, Bob Bridges wrote:
I never heard of Lua until I started playing Factorio a few years ago;
apparently it's the language in which players can add mods to the game. For
that reason I wasn't sure even what it is. Is it really a programming
language, or some special-purpose
Actually, I low-balled the guy on e-bay and got the manuals today and scanned
them for you. Happy Holidays :)
Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org
+1-919-656-0564
PGP Key: 0x90ECB270
Facebook LinkedIn
Twitter
Hi Matt
This is absolutely amazing, thank you very much!
The next thing you tell me is that you have a shipping box full of 3979s
that you need to get rid of. :-)
Thanks again!
-Alex
P.S. There is a little typo in the name of the second pdf. s/3279/3979/
On Thu, Jan 06, 2022 at 09:15:08PM
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 21:38:22 -0400, René Jansen wrote:
>https://groups.google.com/g/alt.folklore.computers/c/nKfGUhdkO8U
>
Which links to a 7-minute video lecture by Brooks in which he fails to
mention the most essential (IMO) feature of JCL: the ability to ENQ
multiple data set names in a
Alexander, enjoy.
I’m going to move the to Git LFS in a few days but the manuals can be found
here:
IBM 3192-G Color Graphics Display Station - Operator Reference and Problem
Solving Guide.pdf
I usually include JCL under the ~very~ general rubric of "programming
language", but even mentally I think that's a stretch. It's more like a macro
language, sort of like .bat I guess.
I may as well take this opportunity to include a mild rant. I've often heard
the programs you can write for
To answer the original question by the OP, for FTP you can specify "SECURE
LOGIN OPTIONAL" in FTP.DATA ... of course doing that eliminates the need
for any certificates. I suppose it could be an emergency circumvention but
you'd have to assess the significance of the ramifications for your
I never heard of Lua until I started playing Factorio a few years ago;
apparently it's the language in which players can add mods to the game. For
that reason I wasn't sure even what it is. Is it really a programming
language, or some special-purpose thingy?
---
Bob Bridges,
I’m always assumed JCL was designed back when my dad was but a lad, and that
certain conventions had not yet become conventional. The COND statement, for
example, might have seemed intuitive to me had the rest of the world ended up
following that backward order; as it is, I have to look it up
https://groups.google.com/g/alt.folklore.computers/c/nKfGUhdkO8U
Sent from my iPad
> On 6 Jan 2022, at 21:23, David Crayford wrote:
>
> On 7/1/22 9:03 am, Andrew Rowley wrote:
>> On 7/01/2022 11:37 am, David Crayford wrote:
>>
Isn't JCL already a really good tool for what it does?
>>>
On 7/1/22 9:03 am, Andrew Rowley wrote:
On 7/01/2022 11:37 am, David Crayford wrote:
Isn't JCL already a really good tool for what it does?
Maybe, but it's a terribly designed language. I worked on AS/400
boxes in the 90s and the Control Language (CL) was a legit Turing
complete program
What I forget to mention is that you get most from the combination of Rexx and
Pipelines, the latter something that IBM stubbornly refuses to put into base
MVS, although it is the #1 Share request.
I will look into Lua. Need to do that for TeX anyway.
René.
> On 6 Jan 2022, at 21:05, David
On 7/1/22 9:08 am, Charles Mills wrote:
It's my understanding that IBM dropped Swift
Wow. Swift was the flavor of the month a couple of years ago.
It is for iOS development but never took off as a server side language.
IBM backed the wrong horse. Golang became dominant, so now we have a
> It's my understanding that IBM dropped Swift
Wow. Swift was the flavor of the month a couple of years ago.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of David Crayford
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:47 PM
To:
Forgot to mention. Support for functional programming map, reduce,
filter etc.
REXX does support ECMAScript regular expressions on z/OS if you use my
package https://github.com/daveyc/RTK.
All of those requirements are met by Lua which runs on z/OS, including
modules in PDS data sets,
On 7/01/2022 11:37 am, David Crayford wrote:
Isn't JCL already a really good tool for what it does?
Maybe, but it's a terribly designed language. I worked on AS/400 boxes
in the 90s and the Control Language (CL) was a legit Turing complete
program language. Why couldn't JCL have been the
ooRexx meets most of those, we can discuss 1,2 and 5. NetRexx does as Java does.
Sent from my iPhone
> On 6 Jan 2022, at 20:47, David Crayford wrote:
>
> Here is my list of must haves for a scripting language. Does REXX or ooRexx
> meet the requirements?
>
> 1. Short circuit evaluation
> 2.
Here is my list of must haves for a scripting language. Does REXX or
ooRexx meet the requirements?
1. Short circuit evaluation
2. Functions as first class objects
3. Mutli-threading
4. Dynamically typed, preferably with type hints
5. co-routintes
6. A module system
7. Support for object
On 7/1/22 12:28 am, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022, at 08:53, David Crayford wrote:
It's insulting to call young people prima donna's just because they
don't want to use 3270 or JCL.
Absolutely. But what's a decent alternative to JCL?
There will always be a need for JCL. Started
Reading 6250BPI minireels into new formats isn’t as hard as you may think . . .
There are places that could do it for you at a reasonable price, and some
people will do it gratis . . .
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Phil Smith III
Sent:
Peter Farley asked:
>Ahh! But did you save a copy of the tape? (Not that you could share them
with anyone anyway, I was just curious - as an invulnerable young
whippersnapper I would have done so and not told anyone either . . .
without ever considering the possible consequences. Such is
Ahh! But did you save a copy of the tape? (Not that you could share them with
anyone anyway, I was just curious - as an invulnerable young whippersnapper I
would have done so and not told anyone either . . . without ever considering
the possible consequences. Such is youth.)
Peter
At one point in the 1990s, IBM PartnerWorld started charging a $5K/year fee.
We ponied up. One of the benefits was that you could now get the PL/X (or
maybe PL/AS by then) compiler, so I requested and got it.
A few months later they reversed the decision about the $5K and I got a call
I remember the offer. We decided not to avail ourselves. Did not wish to
"invest" in an unsupported product.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Tony Harminc
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 1:55 PM
To:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 15:39, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
>
> That’s true for all source code and not unique to the PLX language. I
> suspect that PLX originally was not intended to be held to the same rigor as
> commercial languages and was specialized so IBM never er let it out of the
> lab.
Well
And, if memory serves me right, those were on Betamax tapes.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
PINION, RICHARD W.
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ... Re: Top 8 Reasons for using Python instead of REXX
Deltak, now that's a name, I've not heard in a long time.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bob
Bridges
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 4:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ... Re: Top 8 Reasons for using Python instead of REXX for z/OS
One of my employers started me off with a Deltak video course on JCL. It
gave me a solid grounding in JCL, one I've used almost every week in the
decades since. I am frequently surprised at how many mainframe
professionals limp along, modifying existing JCL at need but not really
understanding
That’s true for all source code and not unique to the PLX language. I suspect
that PLX originally was not intended to be held to the same rigor as commercial
languages and was specialized so IBM never er let it out of the lab.
Matt Hogstrom
A generalist knows less and less about more and
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 16:02:22 -0400, Eric D Rossman wrote:
>"Dave Jousma" wrote:
>
>> You have to be careful though, because the MK for the domain is the
>> same on both adapters,
>
>That is true only if both adapters are on the same LPAR. If they are on
>different LPARs, there is no requirement
"Dave Jousma" wrote:
> You have to be careful though, because the MK for the domain is the
> same on both adapters,
That is true only if both adapters are on the same LPAR. If they are on
different LPARs, there is no requirement that they be the same. However, I
would recommend it because it
There are too things that JCL handles well; overrides and parallel allocation.
I don't see the need for either going away.
That said, there is certainly an argument to be made for scripts using tools
like file tailoring to construct JCL instead of always doing it manually. And
there is
This is not the CONCATD tool, but it fulfils similar requirements and I think
it is simpler.
https://rsclweb.com/downloads/#CONCAT-position
Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw
https://rsclweb.com
‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 19:25:11 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>I believe that it was Hitachi that stole MVS/XA source code. I don't know the
>terms of the settlement.
>
I know we sold a version of a software product customized for hardware
system and OS that could not legally be imported to the U.S.,
https://books.google.nl/books?id=ldk7z4Q-WWYC=RA14-PT5=RA14-PT5=hitachi+ibm+source+code=bl=wu-vjyCcCR=ACfU3U1kpVpCkQgJDtFT-jskySEtVGcAPw=en=X=2ahUKEwj7oJuY7p31AhUDTDABHVQ2AZ4Q6AF6BAgCEAM#v=onepage=hitachi%20ibm%20source%20code=false
PL/X started as BSL in the 1960s. At the time it supported imbedded assembler,
which would not be portable. PL/S II still did.
Open sourcing BSL or PL/S might not have been enough to prevent C; could you
fit a compiler on a PDP-7 or PDP-11?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
I believe that it was Hitachi that stole MVS/XA source code. I don't know the
terms of the settlement.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Colin Paice
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 18:37:01 +, Colin Paice wrote:
>Making PLX Internal to IBM may be to protect its Intellectual Property. I
>remember a vendor taking some IBM source,, renaming it and shipping it.
>When it went to court, ...
>
We did that. Through MVS 3.8 IBM source code was open. We took
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 16:28:42 +, Jeremy Nicoll wrote:
>...
>Absolutely. But what's a decent alternative to JCL?
>
o Forgo compatibility. Whip sockets were long ago removed from
automobile dashboards. They are no longer mourned.
(But provide a conversion tool.)
o Free-form input. No
Thank You Paul and yes I tested using bpxwdyn and it does work.
Thanks again,
Regards,
On 2022-01-06 1:17 p.m., Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:11:24 -0500, Jasi Grewal wrote:
I am looking for concatd tool and could not find it under CBT files
either and any information
would be
Making PLX Internal to IBM may be to protect its Intellectual Property. I
remember a vendor taking some IBM source,, renaming it and shipping it.
When it went to court, they compared the vendor code with IBM code, and
noticed that the code was similar, the developers had the same initials,
and
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:11:24 -0500, Jasi Grewal wrote:
>
>I am looking for concatd tool and could not find it under CBT files
>either and any information
>would be appreciated. I hope to get the complete package with Help files
>as well on concatd.
>
I find few references, such as
PLX puts a value in the IDR data that can be plainly seen in the load module.
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 1:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: JCL (was: Python ... REXX)
EXTERNAL EMAIL
On
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 12:57:34 -0400, René Jansen wrote:
>JCL ... Fred Brooks (“the worst language ever, and it happened under my
>watch”) .
>...
>And indeed, I think witholding PL/X from customers was a very odd move, guided
>by who-knows-which motives; which did not do PL/I a lot of good,
Hi,
I am looking for concatd tool and could not find it under CBT files
either and any information
would be appreciated. I hope to get the complete package with Help files
as well on concatd.
Thank You in advance,
Regards,
Jasi Grewal.
On 1/5/22 2:17 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
Here is the problem with that logic. If there is a problem with the
integrity of a certificate the CA will revoke it.
N.B. Revocation and Expiration are two different mechanism that indicate
two very different things.
IMHO this is /especially/ true if
JCL is an interesting problem. While being disavowed very publicly by Fred
Brooks (“the worst language ever, and it happened under my watch”) - I did the
same thing as you in the same timeframe - and faced a revolt/uprising of the
operations staff. It turned out they liked it very much and
No, a router.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of
Jeremy Nicoll [jn.ls.mfrm...@letterboxes.org]
Sent: Thursday, January 6, 2022 11:30 AM
To:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022, at 14:33, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I hate, lathe and despise C ...
Hmm, is this what is meant in computing by a "tool chain"?
--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff /
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022, at 08:53, David Crayford wrote:
> It's insulting to call young people prima donna's just because they
> don't want to use 3270 or JCL.
Absolutely. But what's a decent alternative to JCL?
I know (because 20+ years ago I did so) one can replace job steps with
Also, the ZCMD field may not be wide enough for your purpose. Personally I
would just write a small prompt panel, as I then would have full control over
format etc. Com to think of it, I do have (at least) one such panel.
--
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 16:04:59 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka
wrote:
>
>Thank you for the clarification and excuse me for next question: are you
>sure one can have i.e. LPARX using Crypto01 in domain 10 (no other
>crypto cards) *and* LPARY using Crypto02 in domain 10 both activated?
>As I said my
Radoslaw Skorupka wrote on 01/06/2022 10:04:59
AM:
> Thank you for the clarification and excuse me for next question: are you
> sure one can have i.e. LPARX using Crypto01 in domain 10 (no other
> crypto cards) *and* LPARY using Crypto02 in domain 10 both activated?
> As I said my memory is
W dniu 04.01.2022 o 22:25, Dave Jousma pisze:
On Tue, 4 Jan 2022 21:48:23 +0100, Radoslaw Skorupka
wrote:
Another question about ICSF:
I vaguely remember that crypto domains had to be unique.
In other words every active LPAR can have unique domain number or
several numbers (which is another
If your job requires paper (FSVO paper) tape and you refuse to use it then,
yes, you are a prima donna. I hate, lathe and despise C, but that doesn't stop
me from using it when the job requires that I do so. I don't like Perl syntax,
but I still use it because of regexen and the massive CPAN.
Rocket have access to PL/X only for the products that we develop for IBM.
Some of those divested products were originally coded in PL/X or a mixture of
PL/X and ASM.
Rob
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 06 January 2022 13:41
To:
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 10:16:05 +0800, David Crayford wrote:
>...
>As Rob mentioned in a later post we have since written tooling to invoke
>the PL/X and DTL compilers from zFS. Quite a few projects choose to stay
>using PDS data sets and sync to the file system to use Git.
>
How do you happen to
>> address ispexec
>> ZCMD = 'my-text'
>> "DISPLAY PANEL()"
I knew about this possibility from the beginning
The problem you can not
DISPLAY PANEL
every panel
for example
SYS1.ISP.SISPPENU(ISREDDE2)
RETRIEVE , RETP , RETF
Use of another technique
Maybe STACK
queue 'my-text'
And at the end
Yap. ZCMD is the IIBM default for the command line. I must say that it was
hard to understand that this is what you wanted. Happy it worked for you.
ITschak
*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS,
>)init section of the panel, set ZCMd = x, where x was set as previpusly
It's not my panel
this code do it :
address ispexec
ZCMD = 'my-text'
"DISPLAY PANEL()"
If the panel contains the variable
ZCMD
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 13:50:05 +0200, Itschak Mugzach
wrote:
So, you you want to populate the command field of the panel? If so, in the
)init section of the panel, set ZCMd = x, where x was set as previpusly
explained.
ITschak
*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
Answers inline.
> On 6 Jan 2022, at 04:54, David Crayford levelled. If
> young employees don’t want to work on 3270 tube images or JCL, maybe we
> should stop hiring prima donna’s but instead disadvantaged people who want to
> work and learn something.
>
> It's insulting to call young people
>Then again, you still haven't answered the fundamental question: WHY DO YOU
>WANT TO DO THIS?
In several situations I want to prepare/offer the user command
after he exeute my rexx.
I don't want to use a message option
In a similar case IBMDSC (spufy)
after global find (g f 'abc') in member
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 09:40, Willy Jensen
wrote:
> Long thread, not sure if this has been mentioned before.
> The first input (or output field for that matter) will have a variable
> name associated with it, that is the variable name you use in the
> assignment. Not X.
>
At long last a sensible
If you mean to this
It does not work
address ispexec
x = 'my text'
"vput X profile"
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 10:24:27 +0200, Itschak Mugzach
wrote:
>You better tell us what you are trying to achieve. If the text
>should retain over sessions, use vput
Long thread, not sure if this has been mentioned before.
The first input (or output field for that matter) will have a variable name
associated with it, that is the variable name you use in the assignment. Not X.
--
For IBM-MAIN
On 5/1/22 8:55 pm, René Jansen wrote:
I also salute the CICS guys, who seem to have free reign to put everything in
CICS that is available elsewhere. I agree that IBM should make mainframe
emulators freely available, not only for universities. IBM should realize that
mainframes are not unlike
You better tell us what you are trying to achieve. If the text
should retain over sessions, use vput 'x' profile.
*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux
and IBM I **| *
*|* *Email**:
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