Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#History On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gerhard, I wonder why the government chose Ada...? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 29, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote: On 9/29/2013 9:45 PM, John McKown wrote: is. But I don't think that Ada took off any better than PL/I did. So much for either of them being the one language to rule them all. While I don't know what the current status is, there was at one time an edict that all U.S. Government work had to be done with Ada. A friend of mine spent almost as much time finding compiler (and language definition) problems as doing coding. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, Vermont -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On 30/09/2013 2:11 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#History There is no doubt that Ada is a much, much better programming language then PL/I, C, COBOL etc. It's lack of popularity is probably due to the substantial inertia of it's peers, ala Betamax vs VHS. On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gerhard, I wonder why the government chose Ada...? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 29, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote: On 9/29/2013 9:45 PM, John McKown wrote: is. But I don't think that Ada took off any better than PL/I did. So much for either of them being the one language to rule them all. While I don't know what the current status is, there was at one time an edict that all U.S. Government work had to be done with Ada. A friend of mine spent almost as much time finding compiler (and language definition) problems as doing coding. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, Vermont -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SPLEVEL SET=2
Yep, I compared the assembler listings. The result was that there was no difference in code so that SPLEVEL SET=6 had no effect for this particular program. I wanted to get rid of this ancient setting. So I happily did set the SPLEVEL to 6. -- Thanks, Manfred On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 9:05 PM, Peter Relson rel...@us.ibm.com wrote: SPLEVEL has not been changed since 1996. Some macros will expand differently based on SPLEVEL. So I'd say that if you truly want to see if there is any effect, you either need to do a lot of analysis (of macro invocations and expansions) or, as you mention, compare the assembler and/or object code. There should be no need to have SPLEVEL=2 unless your exploitation requires functions that existed prior to SPLEVEL=3 (MVS/ESA) that are implemented differently as of SPLEVEL=3. Many macros rely on indicates set by SYSSTATE and if you specify SPLEVEL=2 they will assume that you are compiling using a release that doesn't even have the SYSSTATE macro. They will certainly assume ASC mode of Primary. SETLOCK is a macro that differentiates SPLEVEL 4 from SPLEVEL = 4. CALLDISP differentiates SPLEVEL 3 from SPLEVEL = 3. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SPLEVEL SET=2
I agree fully that there is nothing to worry about. However, for the existing program I do not want to bother with ARCHLVL setting as it requires me to analyze all code changes resulting from ARCHLVL=2. However, for new programs I will take over your suggestion in the previous post. -- Thanks a lot, Manfred On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 6:11 PM, Ed Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.comwrote: On 9/27/2013 1:21 AM, Manfred Lotz wrote: The change is this: [snip] There is nothing to worry about. The two expansions make the identical service call (as seen by the operating system), but the technique used by the updated expansion is usable by programs that use the relative immediate instruction facility (you get that with ARCHLVL=1 or higher). Basically, the inline parameters and the 'L 15,IHB0004F' instruction in the old-style expansion would force a modern program to establish temporary code base register coverage just for the GETMAIN macro, which is ugly code that uses an extra register and slows down the program a little bit. The newer expansions remove that restriction by moving the inline parameters into the literal pool and can be safely by older programs. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.**com/ http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ --**--**-- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COBOL problem (not really), but sort of.
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael G Phillips Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 8:32 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COBOL problem (not really), but sort of. Thanks. I'll point him to it. He has already, somewhat jokingly, said fix it! But COBOL doesn't have the DWIW (Do What I Want) verb. I'm still waiting for the DWIT (Do What I'm Thinking) and RAE (Remove All Errors) instructions... ;-) I'm using the compiler option NOBUG. :) Best Regards Thomas Berg ___ Thomas Berg Specialist zOS\RQM\IT Delivery SWEDBANK AB (Publ) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COBOL problem (not really), but sort of.
Michael G Phillips wrote: Thanks. I'll point him to it. He has already, somewhat jokingly, said fix it! But COBOL doesn't have the DWIW (Do What I Want) verb. I'm still waiting for the DWIT (Do What I'm Thinking) and RAE (Remove All Errors) instructions... ;-) Add this action: WF (Wait Forever) :-D Thomas Berg wrote: I'm using the compiler option NOBUG. :) I have 'TEST(ed)' it. My compiler is buggy/outdated/BrokenAsDesigned: IGYOS4003-E Invalid option NOBUG was found and discarded. :-D And I have 'NOWORD' for that problem, because there are 'NOSPACE' for me as a 'NONAME'! ;-D Ok, I'm using 'EXIT' from this thread... Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Need Help with an ARR
An ARR is nothing more than a fast ESTAEX. Anything you can do in one you can do in the other. So the question morphs into what can you do with an ESTAEX or an ARR. As with any recovery routine (including an FRR), as Binyamin noted, you identify what to dump by requesting the dump (with SDUMPX) with suitable parameters (such as the ASIDLST parameter or even simply TYPE=XMEME which indicates to dump the group of spaces identified by the home, current primary, and current secondary spaces at the time of error). The requirement of one or more of SRB or lock or EUT FRR for BRANCH=YES have not been necessary for a long time. The forthcoming book has removed that paragraph. You of course need to be supervisor state and PSW key 0. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Does your company have different SLO / SLA's for Scheduled / Unscheduled downtime?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 00:40:01 -0400, Thomas Kern tlk_sysp...@yahoo.com wrote: I like to account for four different types of service time for SLAs. Scheduled Maintenance Windows: These are predefined, scheduled, well-publicized and should not count against an SLA. Scheduled Outages: These are outages for maintenance, upgrades etc that cannot wait until the next maintenance window, but can still be scheduled for a day or two out. These should count against an SLA but not as much as an unscheduled outage. Unscheduled Outage: This is a service failure. This is what no one ever wants and it needs to be honestly, accurately recorded and counted against an SLA. Service Available: This is what we all want all the time. The goal of IT is to maximize this value. For scheduled outages under your definition, what does don't count as much mean? If your outage is an hour it only counts as half an hour? Who determines how to quantify that and what the penalties are if any? Regards, Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:m...@mzelden.com ITIL v3 Foundation Certified Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: DSNAME Syntax
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 21:59:32 -0500, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: (And I still see no good explanation of why data set names beginning with a period are prohibited, at least by JCL.) This is just wild speculation on my part, but maybe IBM is considering a future change to the rule for the DSNAME parameter in JCL, in both quoted and unquoted forms, such that a name will be allowed to start with a period. Names that start with a period would be prefixed with the job's userid or a prefix specified separately. It might be that a leading period is not currently allowed even in quoted names so there will not be any existing JCL that would be adversely affected by the future introduction of such a change. SAS already uses this convention for its FILENAME and LIBNAME statements, allowing the user to specify the prefix separately. Google for SAS and SYSPREF. Bill -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, been encouraging. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. It must be conceded that many of these deficiencies are not specific to security. Suboptimizing, a department's pursuit of its own objectives at the expense of those of the organization it serves, is ubiquitous. There is another problem too, and it is a harder to talk about politely. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
David, I am not familiar with Ada, interesting have written C,Cobol,PL/1 . ADA like other languages sounds like it has it strengths. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:25 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/09/2013 2:11 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#History There is no doubt that Ada is a much, much better programming language then PL/I, C, COBOL etc. It's lack of popularity is probably due to the substantial inertia of it's peers, ala Betamax vs VHS. On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gerhard, I wonder why the government chose Ada...? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 29, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote: On 9/29/2013 9:45 PM, John McKown wrote: is. But I don't think that Ada took off any better than PL/I did. So much for either of them being the one language to rule them all. While I don't know what the current status is, there was at one time an edict that all U.S. Government work had to be done with Ada. A friend of mine spent almost as much time finding compiler (and language definition) problems as doing coding. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, Vermont -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I am a full-time mainframe (RACF) security engineer (I hate that term...) and have been for almost nine years. Prior to that, I was a zOS (MFT, SVS, MVS, OS390, XA, ESA, etc.) systems programmer for approximately 30 years (for two very large companies that each have a 3-letter name). IHMO, I was/am considered to be very good at both jobs. The big difference was changing from a 60- to 80- hour work week to a 40-hour one Amazing how one adapts when outsourcing and resource actions come into play. Randy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:10 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, been encouraging. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. It must be conceded that many of these deficiencies are not specific to security. Suboptimizing, a department's pursuit of its own objectives at the expense of those of the organization it serves, is ubiquitous. There is another problem too, and it is a harder to talk about politely. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:10:00 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. In fact, the rationale of dissolving collusions was suggested to me decades ago, by someone unfamiliar with IT, in the context of physical plant security; preventing pilfering of physical assets. (Among the obvious targets are model shops; one can arrange to divert *anything* from a model shop. I recall a case locally where an employee of a model shop at a highly secure Federal installation had diverted enough materials to build a spiral stairway in his house worth $15K: http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/06/us/gift-orders-filled-at-top-secret-shop-of-colorado-nuclear-weapon-plant.html?pagewanted=allsrc=pm But no maple syrup.) But the principle is the same as staggering vacations in financial institutions to dissolve collusions. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
I do not know Randall Gross personally, and it was anyway no part of my intent to impugn the competence of any particular mainframe security specialist. I indeed made it clear that I judge that the effectiveness of such groups varies widely. I am nevertheless unrepentent about my view that most of these groups are no great shakes technically, bureaucratically orient[at]ed, and ineffective. I am not sure just how 'staggering vacations in financial institutions' dissolves collusions. It may well prevent them during the interval when either of, say, two colluders is vacationing; but there would still be ample opportunity for collusive misbehavior during the the nine months (assuming six-week non-overlapping vacations for each of two colluders) when both would be present. Indeed, the historical rationale for these longish bank-officer vacations|holidays has been that they provided opportunities for the detection of fraud, not that they prevented it; and for this purpose simultaneous vacations for two colluding officers would be more effective. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Need Help with an ARR
Wouldn't SETRP DUMP=YES,DUMPOPX= be the preferred method than SDUMPX? The original request was about ARR in a PC routine. It should automatically include the primary, home and secondary address spaces. In addition, wouldn't it have the SDWA directly available when accessing the dump? Are there situations where SETRP won't work versus SDUMPX? Jon Perryman. From: Peter Relson rel...@us.ibm.com As with any recovery routine (including an FRR), as Binyamin noted, you identify what to dump by requesting the dump (with SDUMPX) with suitable parameters (such as the ASIDLST parameter or even simply TYPE=XMEME which indicates to dump the group of spaces identified by the home, current primary, and current secondary spaces at the time of error). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
John, Actually, I do agree with you, and no offense was taken. \ Interestingly enough, when I was interviewing here, it was for a sysprog opening. After being interviewd by the sysprog manager and the VP of operations, I had a final interview with the CIO. The CIO noticed on my resume that I had some experience in the RACF arena (can you say GSD-331); he asked if I would be interested in a RACF job for the same pay - he felt that his security organizaion needed more technical mainframe knowledge - someone who could intelligently interface with the sysprogs and rest of the data center. The rest is history. Our CIO is not your run-of the-mill executive - he started professional life as an operator on a mainframe. Randy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Gilmore Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 10:43 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I do not know Randall Gross personally, and it was anyway no part of my intent to impugn the competence of any particular mainframe security specialist. I indeed made it clear that I judge that the effectiveness of such groups varies widely. I am nevertheless unrepentent about my view that most of these groups are no great shakes technically, bureaucratically orient[at]ed, and ineffective. I am not sure just how 'staggering vacations in financial institutions' dissolves collusions. It may well prevent them during the interval when either of, say, two colluders is vacationing; but there would still be ample opportunity for collusive misbehavior during the the nine months (assuming six-week non-overlapping vacations for each of two colluders) when both would be present. Indeed, the historical rationale for these longish bank-officer vacations|holidays has been that they provided opportunities for the detection of fraud, not that they prevented it; and for this purpose simultaneous vacations for two colluding officers would be more effective. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
John Gilmore wrote: I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. True. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. Aka 'red tape'. I hate it. My opinion. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. I have started as junior programmer, worked my way up to be a fulltime MVS/XA, OS/390 system programmer responsible for the operating system. I was also a storage admin amongst other duties like assisting users with languages including Assembler. Now, I'm exclusive on RACF and security, while still assisting other teams on as needed base. Granted, you have never met me personally ( good thing? ;-D hehehe ), but I'm sure many IBM-MAIN members have done multiple roles and excelled in whatever role they're fulfilling. Mind you, many IBM-MAIN members are contractors, just like you if I remember correctly. You take up what is given to you. And fix whatever problem there are including security. But you forget about security of the network too. You need security on M/F and also on network, thus 2 teams doing their own work. But for myself, I have NEVER met a network person who is ONLY with security. Did you met such a [network] person? There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. True. Remedies can only be done with buy-in of the management of the data centre. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. Yes! Here I agree with you! You are a sharp observer! ;-) Groete / Greetings Elardus Engelbrecht -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Need Help with an ARR
The things Binyamin and Peter have been saying are useful, but I have a rooted preference for making some attempts at recovery in an ARR. A dump after this attempt or these attempts fail is fine; a case can indeed be made for taking the dump before the waters are too much muddied by failed recovery attempts, i.e., before them. These posts do, however, seem to be saying that the proper function of an ARR is [only] to take a well-contrived dump. -- John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
Actually in some circles ADA is the ONLY language. Talk to the embedded systems people. Unless things have changed quite a bit in the past 6 years or so, ADA is heavily used in airplanes, etc. Lloyd From: John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2013 9:45 PM Subject: Re: Quote on Slashdot.org I guess that good to know. And I can sort of see it, from what little I remember of Turbo Pascal and Delphi, and a brief flirtation with Modula II. I've only had the GCC Ada compiler, and I don't really know how standard it is. But I don't think that Ada took off any better than PL/I did. So much for either of them being the one language to rule them all. On z/OS, COBOL still seems to be King (at least in terms of number of lines of customer code). On UNIX, C/C++ seems to still the be the main winner, but with a large retinue of others (Perl, Python, Ruby, ...). On Windows, well I plead ignorance and apathy: I don't know and I don't care. I despise MS-Windows. As is likely well known by now. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net wrote: In caajsdjhovrtxbmxk+bhdqwookpp7_h3z4mtthsyoyzyjfnj...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/26/2013 at 09:10 AM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com said: Ada is PL/I trying to be Smalltalk. -- Codoso diBlini Actually Ada comes from the Pascal tradition and is quite at variance with PL/I. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- I have _not_ lost my mind! It is backed up on a flash drive somewhere. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
$TJOBCLASS(x),XEQMEMBER(xxxx)=MAX=0. Why not?
$TJOBCLASS(T),XEQMEMBER(V341)=MAX=0 returns: /HASP003 RC=(08),T /HASP003 RC=(08),T JOBCLASS(T) XEQMEMBER(V341) MAX - VALUE IS /HASP003 OUTSIDE NUMERICAL RANGE, RANGE IS /HASP003 (1-4294967295) Why? Is it a bug? Another approach to stop a specific WLM class in a member? Thanks groups. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
Pascal is like an improved PL/I, Ada is an improved Pascal. On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: David, I am not familiar with Ada, interesting have written C,Cobol,PL/1 . ADA like other languages sounds like it has it strengths. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:25 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/09/2013 2:11 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#History There is no doubt that Ada is a much, much better programming language then PL/I, C, COBOL etc. It's lack of popularity is probably due to the substantial inertia of it's peers, ala Betamax vs VHS. On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gerhard, I wonder why the government chose Ada...? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 29, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote: On 9/29/2013 9:45 PM, John McKown wrote: is. But I don't think that Ada took off any better than PL/I did. So much for either of them being the one language to rule them all. While I don't know what the current status is, there was at one time an edict that all U.S. Government work had to be done with Ada. A friend of mine spent almost as much time finding compiler (and language definition) problems as doing coding. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, Vermont -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Need Help with an ARR
Abend diagnostics and abend recovery are equally important in abend recovery. Implementing both is certainly recommended. This is simply a question about obtaining dumps as part of the diagnostics. Jon Perryman From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com The things Binyamin and Peter have been saying are useful, but I have a rooted preference for making some attempts at recovery in an ARR. A dump after this attempt or these attempts fail is fine; a case can indeed be made for taking the dump before the waters are too much muddied by failed recovery attempts, i.e., before them. These posts do, however, seem to be saying that the proper function of an ARR is [only] to take a well-contrived dump. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
John: That's typical for my experience in large shops. Unfortunately I think people in large environments get more specialized. Scott J Ford Software Engineer http://www.identityforge.com/ From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:10 AM Subject: Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s)) I am sure that outsourced security varies in quality and effectiveness, as does perforce 'outsourced' auditing. My now extended observation of it in several mainframe shops has not, however, been encouraging. Exclusive preoccupation with security seems to lead ineluctably to rigid, rote, highly standardized measures that make systems increasingly awkward and unworkable without in fact making them more secure. It must be conceded that many of these deficiencies are not specific to security. Suboptimizing, a department's pursuit of its own objectives at the expense of those of the organization it serves, is ubiquitous. There is another problem too, and it is a harder to talk about politely. I have never met a fulltime computer-security person for a mainframe shop who really knew much about the operating system he or she was attempting to defend. Moreover, I have never met a highly competent z/OS or z/VM systems programmer who was willing to devote herself or himself exclusively to security for a single shop. There is a severe, all but sui generis paucity of both talent and long experience with the target operating system among these security people; and it is not at all clear how these deficiencies can be remedied. Part-time attention to security by a few talented, appropriately experienced people is all but certain to be much more effective than that given to it by a much larger group of dedicated mediocrities; but this notion is unpalatable to many CIOs for the obvious reason. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Need Help with an ARR
Wouldn't SETRP DUMP=YES,DUMPOPX= be the preferred method than SDUMPX? The original request was about ARR in a PC routine. It should automatically include the primary, home and secondary address spaces. In addition, wouldn't it have the SDWA directly available when accessing the dump? Are there situations where SETRP won't work versus SDUMPX? SETUP DUMP=YES causes RTM2 to initiate a SYSUDUMP/SYSABEND/SYSMDUMP after the ESTAE(X)/ARR returns to RTM2. SDUMP(X) and IEATDUMP initiate a dump immediately (although for SDUMP(X), depending on the options and environment, the SUMDUMP might be the only thing which is captured synchronously). There is no preferred method. It depends on your environment, which kind of dump you want, and when you want it to be initiated. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On 2013-09-30 16:40, Mike Schwab wrote: Pascal is like an improved PL/I, Ada is an improved Pascal. I would rather say that Pascal is a very inferior copy of PL/I. Robert -- Robert AH Prins robert(a)prino(d)org On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: David, I am not familiar with Ada, interesting have written C,Cobol,PL/1 . ADA like other languages sounds like it has it strengths. Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 30, 2013, at 2:25 AM, David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/09/2013 2:11 PM, Mike Schwab wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#History There is no doubt that Ada is a much, much better programming language then PL/I, C, COBOL etc. It's lack of popularity is probably due to the substantial inertia of it's peers, ala Betamax vs VHS. On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:11 AM, Scott Ford scott_j_f...@yahoo.com wrote: Gerhard, I wonder why the government chose Ada...? Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 29, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net wrote: On 9/29/2013 9:45 PM, John McKown wrote: is. But I don't think that Ada took off any better than PL/I did. So much for either of them being the one language to rule them all. While I don't know what the current status is, there was at one time an edict that all U.S. Government work had to be done with Ada. A friend of mine spent almost as much time finding compiler (and language definition) problems as doing coding. -- Robert AH Prins robert(a)prino(d)org -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On 29 Sep 2013 22:13:02 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: John, Yeah, there are still a ton of Cobol shops and not many young bucks and does wanting to learn it ..sorry play on words There may be a ton of shops but are there paying jobs in them or have they been outsourced to lower wage areas? Clark Morris Scott ford www.identityforge.com from my IPAD 'Infinite wisdom through infinite means' On Sep 29, 2013, at 9:45 PM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com wrote: I guess that good to know. And I can sort of see it, from what little I remember of Turbo Pascal and Delphi, and a brief flirtation with Modula II. I've only had the GCC Ada compiler, and I don't really know how standard it is. But I don't think that Ada took off any better than PL/I did. So much for either of them being the one language to rule them all. On z/OS, COBOL still seems to be King (at least in terms of number of lines of customer code). On UNIX, C/C++ seems to still the be the main winner, but with a large retinue of others (Perl, Python, Ruby, ...). On Windows, well I plead ignorance and apathy: I don't know and I don't care. I despise MS-Windows. As is likely well known by now. On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:46 PM, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net wrote: In caajsdjhovrtxbmxk+bhdqwookpp7_h3z4mtthsyoyzyjfnj...@mail.gmail.com, on 09/26/2013 at 09:10 AM, John McKown john.archie.mck...@gmail.com said: Ada is PL/I trying to be Smalltalk. -- Codoso diBlini Actually Ada comes from the Pascal tradition and is quite at variance with PL/I. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- I have _not_ lost my mind! It is backed up on a flash drive somewhere. Maranatha! John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Need Help with an ARR
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:53:38 -0700 Jon Perryman jperr...@pacbell.net wrote: :Abend diagnostics and abend recovery are equally important in abend recovery. Implementing both is certainly recommended. This is simply a question about obtaining dumps as part of the diagnostics. I am pretty sure that John knew that - sometimes he feels the need to pontificate. _ : From: John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com : : :The things Binyamin and Peter have been saying are useful, but I have :a rooted preference for making some attempts at recovery in an ARR. : :A dump after this attempt or these attempts fail is fine; a case can :indeed be made for taking the dump before the waters are too much :muddied by failed recovery attempts, i.e., before them. These posts :do, however, seem to be saying that the proper function of an ARR is :[only] to take a well-contrived dump. -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On Sep 30, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Robert Prins robert.ah.pr...@gmail.com wrote: Pascal is like an improved PL/I, Ada is an improved Pascal. I would rather say that Pascal is a very inferior copy of PL/I. Pascal was written by Niklaus Wirth as a teaching language to instruct programmers in the principles of structured programming. PL/I was developed by an IBM team to be the one language to rule them all, replacing COBOL for business programming and FORTRAN for scientific programming. Neither is a copy of the other, although both were heavily influenced by Algol. Bu then, almost all languages developed after Algol were heavily influenced by it. Tony Hoare once said, The amazing thing about Algol was it was such an improvement over most of its successors. -- Curtis Pew (c@its.utexas.edu) ITS Systems Core The University of Texas at Austin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Need Help with an ARR
I am most inclined to 'pontificate' in a thread after it appears to me that all the voyage of its life is bound in shallows. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
I remember in the fall of 1975 taking a PL/I class at THE Ohio State University - the instructor was confident that by 1980 - COBOL and Fortran would not exist outside of museums ...PL/I was THAT good ... (and he MIGHT have been right - had there not been such an overwhelming legacy of code in both languages bu 1975 - which cost to convert overwhelmed whatever savings the ease and efficiency of PL/I provided ...) Chris hoelscher Technology Architect | Database Infrastructure Services Technology Solution Services 123 East Main Street |Louisville, KY 40202 choelsc...@humana.com Humana.com (502) 476-2538 - office (502) 714-8615 - blackberry Keeping CAS and Metavance safe for all HUMANAty The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material. If you receive this material/information in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
I would amend Curtis Pew's language with just one word, that shown in majuscules below Pascal was writtern by Niklaus Wirth as a teaching langjuage to instruct NOVICE programmers in the principles of structured programming. It is much concerned to interdict practices, e.g., GOTOs or unconditional branches, that it deems 'unstructured' or 'anarchic'. Opinions still differ sharply---There has been no design convergence---on what an optimal programming language is. We do, however, know one thing: Requiring students to use a nanny language, be it Pascal or Smalltalk, to pick two very different ones, does not teach them to be good programmers. They can and usually do write opaque, turgid routines in both. -- John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 19:40 +, Pew, Curtis G wrote: Tony Hoare once said, The amazing thing about Algol was it was such an improvement over most of its successors. Not having a defined I/O facility didn't help Algol. An undergraduate prof of mine (George Haynam, did the SDS Algol 60 compiler) claimed that this was the source of Algol's unpopularity in the US. Maybe he was right. -- David Andrews A. Duda Sons, Inc. david.andr...@duda.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: DSNAME Syntax
Might I give an example, from some things I have done in VSE to MVS migrations? Come to think of it, in just MVS systems where the security system was not strong. DSN='.TAPE.FILE.A12345' will match the DSN on a tape label having the same content (forgive me if I miscounted, the data set name must be at least 17 characters for this). DSN=myuserid.TAPE.FILE.A12345 will past muster for RACF if you do not have a tape librarian (here, you could use ANY qualifiers you like as long as the last 17 characters match the tape label). So the idea that you can not start a DSN with a period is wrong -- where enclosed in apostrophes. This is also how you can access OLD data set names on VSE on DASD that is shared with MVS. E.g., DSN='PAYROLL 080925 DETAILS',VOL=SER=VSE000,UNIT=3380 Dunno if z/VSE still allows a DLBL to specify such non-standard data set names. Regards, Steve Thompson -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill Godfrey Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:05 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: DSNAME Syntax On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 21:59:32 -0500, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: (And I still see no good explanation of why data set names beginning with a period are prohibited, at least by JCL.) This is just wild speculation on my part, but maybe IBM is considering a future change to the rule for the DSNAME parameter in JCL, in both quoted and unquoted forms, such that a name will be allowed to start with a period. Names that start with a period would be prefixed with the job's userid or a prefix specified separately. It might be that a leading period is not currently allowed even in quoted names so there will not be any existing JCL that would be adversely affected by the future introduction of such a change. SAS already uses this convention for its FILENAME and LIBNAME statements, allowing the user to specify the prefix separately. Google for SAS and SYSPREF. Bill -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain CONFIDENTIAL material. If you receive this material/information in error, please contact the sender and delete or destroy the material/information. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
ALGOL was the first high-level language I learned, on a Burroughs B5500. I liked it a lot, except that it was special character happy, using the full 64-character set found on the model 029 129 keypunches. The college only had four 029's (that students could use) but they had a bunch of model 026, 48 character set keypunches all over campus. Most of us got to be very good at multi-punching The best learning language I ever ran across was COMAL... Randy -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Andrews Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 4:12 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Quote on Slashdot.org On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 19:40 +, Pew, Curtis G wrote: Tony Hoare once said, The amazing thing about Algol was it was such an improvement over most of its successors. Not having a defined I/O facility didn't help Algol. An undergraduate prof of mine (George Haynam, did the SDS Algol 60 compiler) claimed that this was the source of Algol's unpopularity in the US. Maybe he was right. -- David Andrews A. Duda Sons, Inc. david.andr...@duda.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 15:55:14 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: [Pascal] is much concerned to interdict practices, e.g., GOTOs or unconditional branches, that it deems 'unstructured' or 'anarchic'. Pascal has GOTO. Dismayingly, statement labels are numeric, perhaps a legacy of FORTRAN (and ALGOL 60). In my opinion, the greatest value of GOTO is the longjump; the ability to exit a nest of not only compounds, but also blocks and function calls. I pine for this facility in Rexx, POSIX shell, and C. One could synthesize the longjump by a call to a function declared nested in an outer function and containing only a GOTO. Alas, nested function declarations are out of style, in C, Modula2, ...; possibly because of the induced requirement that a reference to a function have two pointers; one to the entry point, the other to the stack frame of the statically enclosing scope. ALGOL 60 has its warts: o Dangling ELSE (An Unexpected Journey and a strong argument for strong closure). o The requirement that an integer actual parameter contain both a numeric attribute and a label attribute. o The implied comment after END coding pitfall. o ... (Name your favorite.) Pascal has its warts: o The requirement to predeclare GOTO labels; a consequence of single-pass compilation. o Byzantine operator precedence, most probably a consequence of letting the 60-bit architecture of the CDC 6600 limit the number of nonterminal symbols in its grammar. o That the standard type identifiers are not reserved words. I'm worried by this far less than others. If the programmer chooses to redeclare integer that's his bad programming convention, not to be interdicted by a nanny language. o ... (Name your favorite.) -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
New Z announcement
I got this email in and was wondering if anyone had an insight what it might be about... Every day, we create 2.5 quintillion bytes of data—so much that 90% of the data in the world today has been created in the last two years alone. This data comes from everywhere: sensors are used to gather climate information, medical information, digital pictures, to purchase transaction records, and to process cell phone transactions, just to name a few. All this data must be provided in a cloud environment, on mobile devices—really anytime, anywhere. Listen to Ray Jones, IBM Vice President System z Software Sales, discuss how IBM's new announcements create the perfect environment for managing this explosion of data. Hear how customers have used System z solutions and the value they realized with the use of System z. ANyone? Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
Many C dialects do support long jumps as a language extension. They began in PL/I where they were/are called out-of-block GOTOs. PL/I's used of contextually recognized instead of reserved words is a high virtue. It is often caricatured as permitting constructs like declare file file record sequential buffered ; which does indeed declare a file named file. Its real virtues are that it facilitates language growth without nasty side effects and makes language extensions, assuming the availability of a suitably powerful macro preprocessor, easy. The confusion of popularity with quality is misleading. There may even be an inverse relationship between language popularity and language quality, although unpopularity is not an attribute that should be sought after as such. John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
The problem with the absence of I/O facilities in ALGOL 60 was not perhaps their absence per se as that what was invariably picked up and used to make good this deficiency was FORTRAN I/O. -- John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:51:29 -0400, John Gilmore wrote: Many C dialects do support long jumps as a language extension. As a language extension, or via functions? (Some purists make a distinction. But it can't be done with functions without depending on out-of-band knowledge of the stack structure.) They began in PL/I where they were/are called out-of-block GOTOs. began only if you consider PL/I to antedate ALGOL 60, which I believe is contrary to history. (And ALGOL 60 allows such label objects to be passed as actual parameters; I don't know about PL/I.) PL/I's used of contextually recognized instead of reserved words is a high virtue. It is often caricatured as permitting constructs like declare file file record sequential buffered ; And the worst compromise is Rexx, wherein such words are reserved with the bonus of added contextual sensitivity: ELSE = 'id' /* OK */ ''ELSE/* OK */ ELSE/* IRX0008I Error ...: Unexpected THEN or ELSE */ -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
PL/I has the data types label constant and label variable and of
course permits them to be passed as arguments. (The PL/I mapping of
{formal parameter, actual parameter} is {parameter, argument}.) I
use such a label in, for example, a routine that searches a binary
tree recursively With success, however defined, control is returned
from the block/recursive invocation in which it occurs directly to the
instance of the label in the block from which the search entry was
first invoked, the stack being cleaned appropriately.
John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA
--
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Re: Does your company have different SLO / SLA's for Scheduled / Unscheduled downtime?
I do not like changing the actual time value, if the Scheduled Outage is one hour, it is reported as One Hour, but all parties concerned understand that that is not as impacting as a one hour Unscheduled Outage which gives no one any warning. I also leave it up to the management negotiators to settle the penalties and such and hope that there are some penalties for any Outage, just not as bad for the Scheduled ones. /Tom Kern On 09/30/2013 08:49 AM, Mark Zelden wrote: On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 00:40:01 -0400, Thomas Kern tlk_sysp...@yahoo.com wrote: I like to account for four different types of service time for SLAs. Scheduled Maintenance Windows: These are predefined, scheduled, well-publicized and should not count against an SLA. Scheduled Outages: These are outages for maintenance, upgrades etc that cannot wait until the next maintenance window, but can still be scheduled for a day or two out. These should count against an SLA but not as much as an unscheduled outage. Unscheduled Outage: This is a service failure. This is what no one ever wants and it needs to be honestly, accurately recorded and counted against an SLA. Service Available: This is what we all want all the time. The goal of IT is to maximize this value. For scheduled outages under your definition, what does don't count as much mean? If your outage is an hour it only counts as half an hour? Who determines how to quantify that and what the penalties are if any? Regards, Mark -- Mark Zelden - Zelden Consulting Services - z/OS, OS/390 and MVS mailto:m...@mzelden.com ITIL v3 Foundation Certified Mark's MVS Utilities: http://www.mzelden.com/mvsutil.html Systems Programming expert at http://search390.techtarget.com/ateExperts/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Work long hours (Was Re: Pissing contest(s))
On 30 September 2013 10:43, John Gilmore jwgli...@gmail.com wrote: I am not sure just how 'staggering vacations in financial institutions' dissolves collusions. It may well prevent them during the interval when either of, say, two colluders is vacationing; but there would still be ample opportunity for collusive misbehavior during the the nine months (assuming six-week non-overlapping vacations for each of two colluders) when both would be present. I understand that historically, many bank frauds by insiders are unsustainable; Ponzi or kiting schemes and the like that contain the seeds of their own failure, and must collapse eventually. Requiring vacations to be taken may force the collapse and ultimately save the bank money and reputation. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On 9/30/2013 5:27 PM, John McKown wrote: teach them to be good programmers. They can and usually do write opaque, turgid routines in both. Yes, the old You can write FORTRAN in any language. When I first migrated to OS/360 from the 7094, I wrote a small flowcharting program (manual assignment of position and connectors) in ASM F. For curiosity's sake I also wrote it in ForTran, then PL/I. The ASM version required about 8K, the Fortran version 20K, and PL/I closer to 80K, with proportinal CPU times. Shmuel said that just shows that I couldn't write PL/I programs - in hindsight he was probably right, but the early versions of PL/I were atrocious; e.g., changing a bit flag resulted in a subroutine call rather than one or two instructions in-line. Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, Vermont -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On 9/30/2013 5:17 PM, Gerhard Postpischil wrote: the early versions of PL/I were atrocious; e.g., changing a bit flag resulted in a subroutine call rather than one or two instructions in-line. Later PL/I versions did a great job optimizing and formed the basis for today's ultra-smart IBM compiler back-ends. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
DLm2100 and DD4500 Config for MF
Just curious if any one has experience with a DLm2100 with a DD4500 for the Mainframe? I need to know any lessons learned. Any things to watch out for? Any performance considerations? I/O Gen considerations? I do not find a lot of details on how the device works with internet searches. Any guidance will be helpful. My objective is to compare and contrast a DLm8100 with DD990 with the DLm2100 with DD4500. Probably 80% of my tapes are ML2. And I have software encryption. To do a comparison, I will need to address those issues as well as performance. Thanks for any thoughts. So far, you all have provided a lot of good info, I just need this one little bit to be done. Thanks Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: $TJOBCLASS(x),XEQMEMBER(xxxx)=MAX=0. Why not?
use $TJOBCLASS(0),QAFF=-SYSA ===system affinity for class=0 ..so in jesplex SYSA will not run any job in class 0 managed by wlm. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: $TJOBCLASS(x),XEQMEMBER(xxxx)=MAX=0. Why not?[SEC=UNOFFICIAL]
A quick read of the manual suggests you have missed a set of () in your command. Have you tried: $TJOBCLASS(T),XEQMEMBER(V341)=(MAX=0) Regards, Ian Buckham Mainframe Infrastructure Services Department of Human Services Phone: 02 62115977 I think therefore I am confused -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of IBM-MAIN automatic digest system Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 2:00 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: IBM-MAIN Digest - 29 Sep 2013 to 30 Sep 2013 (#2013-273) [TO BE CLASSIFIED] Date:Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:24:20 -0500 From:Salva Carrasco scarra...@unicaja.es Subject: $TJOBCLASS(x),XEQMEMBER()=MAX=0. Why not? $TJOBCLASS(T),XEQMEMBER(V341)=MAX=0 returns: /HASP003 RC=(08),T /HASP003 RC=(08),T JOBCLASS(T) XEQMEMBER(V341) MAX - VALUE IS /HASP003 OUTSIDE NUMERICAL RANGE, RANGE IS /HASP003 (1-4294967295) Why? Is it a bug? Another approach to stop a specific WLM class in a member? Thanks groups. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- __ IMPORTANT 1. Before opening any attachments, please check for viruses. 2. This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain confidential information for the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies of this email. 3. Any views expressed in this e-mail are those of the sender and are not a statement of Australian Government Policy unless otherwise stated. 4. Electronic addresses published in this email are not conspicuous publications and DVA does not consent to the receipt of commercial electronic messages. 5. To unsubscribe from emails from the Department of Veterans' Affairs (DVA) please go to http://www.dva.gov.au/contact_us/Pages/feedback.aspx , and advise which mailing list you would like to unsubscribe from. 6. Finally, please do not remove this notice. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Quote on Slashdot.org
On 1/10/2013 5:11 AM, Robert Prins wrote: On 2013-09-30 16:40, Mike Schwab wrote: Pascal is like an improved PL/I, Ada is an improved Pascal. I would rather say that Pascal is a very inferior copy of PL/I. I would have to humbly disagree. Pascals type system alone is far superior. I learned Pascal at school and never used it again. I programmed in PL/I professionally and IMO Pascal is a far cleaner language with more expressive features. Pascals successors, such as Module/2 and Delphi, widen the gap even more. Wouldn't it be nice to have a dynamic string type in PL/I? Robert -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
