Re: RBOPSW question

2020-12-03 Thread Seymour J Metz
>From force of habit, I normally look at the RB chain. The PRB for your program 
>contains the PSW and the SVRB for for the SVC contains the registers. If you 
>can find a copy of Jerry Ng's excellent diagnostic presentation at Share, I 
>suggest that you read it.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Joseph Reichman [reichman...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 3, 2020 11:56 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: RBOPSW question

Hi

This question is related to recovery routines

In the case there is SDWARBAD and SDWANAME is not there

So for example my program abended in a SVC

So RBOPSW is somewhere in that SVC

The rbregs should be my program

But my question is would I have an address or could I determine from what 
address in my program I called the SVC

Thanks

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-12-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
> IBM's excuse

Is an excuse after the fact, not a considered design decision. That's why I 
coined "Broken As Designed (BAD)".

> is that protects the user against unwittingly entering more than 1023 
> characters

Except that it doesn't. Making the field shorter protects against excessive 
length; splitting the field just makes it more awkward to use.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 12:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 16:34:27 +0000, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>> In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
>> columns, marking it with  "|".
>
>In those cases you're dealing with two input fields; you'd get the same insert 
>behavior if the input fields and the intervening output fields were in the 
>same line.
>
I was unclear.  3.17 has an adjunct panel where the user can enter a full
pathname   On a Mod 2/4 this is formatted as a single field occupying 12
lines and most of a 13th.  On a Mod 5 it's 13 separate fields in a pillarbox.

So, if I realize I've omitted characters or a level, I must turn on INSERT;
go to the end of each prior line and delete the necessary characters;
go to the beginning and retype those characters from the end of the
previous line; etc.

IBM's excuse is that protects the user against unwittingly entering more
than 1023 characters and receiving "EDC5126I   Filename too long."
Sheesh!  It's no harder to recover from EDC5126I than from a locked
keyboard.  And that's an unlikely error anyway.  And I can force the
EDC5126I anyway by entering a pathname containing a symlink.

>> Supporting the antique and not the modern is just bad design.
>
>++
>
>>  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)
>
>Only 4 decades

-- gil

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Re: Invoking IFASMFDP utility via CALL, LINK, ATTACH ?

2020-12-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
I've seen messages about programs that won't work properly if you LINK to them; 
I consider that bad form, just as I consider reentrant but not refreshable to 
be bad form. Fortunately, IFASMFDP is not such an offender.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 11:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Invoking IFASMFDP utility via CALL, LINK, ATTACH ?

When you invoke it from JCL you are invoking it with LINK or something
similar. Any program that runs from PGM= should run from LINK, CALL or
ATTACH provided the usual "MVS" linkage convention is honored by the
invoker. (Yes, it would be technically possible, but relatively unlikely,
for a program to check to see if it were the jobstep program and quit or
behave differently if it were not.)

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Mike Hochee
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 11:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Invoking IFASMFDP utility via CALL, LINK, ATTACH ?

Wondering if anyone has attempted to invoke the SMF IFASMFDP utility
(handles dumping and clearing of SMF data set logs, digital signature
validation, etc.) via program invocation using CALL, LINK, or ATTACH?  Some
of the dfp utilities allow dynamic invocation from a program, and for those
some doc is provided, however I found no equivalent doc for IFASMFDP.
(probably not a good sign)

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-12-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
> In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
> columns, marking it with  "|".

In those cases you're dealing with two input fields; you'd get the same insert 
behavior if the input fields and the intervening output fields were in the same 
line.

> Supporting the antique and not the modern is just bad design.

++

>  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)

Only 4 decades


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 8:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 16:45:46 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>I have no idea how all the layers work. My guess is that the SDSF coders
>intended one field, but when it gets turned into 80 columns centered in a >
>80 column wide screen, that ISPF turns it into two fields. As I say, I do
>not know how the various layers there interact with each other.
>
In some cases, such as 3.17, ISPF puts a visible pillarbox around the 80
columns, marking it with  "|".

>See for yourself what I am describing: sign on with a screen wider than 80.
>Go to SDSF and type /+. Hit PF5.
>
Does the behavior differ between 80 columns and wider?  (I think that's
what you're saying.)  Supporting the antique and not the modern is just
bad design.  (How long has the Mod 5 been around?)

>-Original Message-
>From: Seymour J Metz
>Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:05 PM
>
>> SDSF thinks it continues
>
>What are you trying to say? Either it is one field or it is not. Where are
>the SF/SFE positions?
>
The TAB key should be telling.  Does TAB move the cursor to the beginning
of that second line (wrong!) or farther, to the next intended field (right).

-- gil

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Re: Invoking IFASMFDP utility via CALL, LINK, ATTACH ?

2020-12-02 Thread Seymour J Metz
In general, you can invoke any utility, but some require that you be APF 
authorized. In the basic form, R1 points to a one-word PLIST with the VL (high 
bet) set, and the single parameter contains a halfword length followed by a 
parameter string. Most utilities document and support additional parameters; if 
the documentation doesn't show them then they don't exist or aren't for custome 
use.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mike Hochee [mike.hoc...@aspg.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 2, 2020 2:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Invoking IFASMFDP utility via CALL, LINK, ATTACH ?

Wondering if anyone has attempted to invoke the SMF IFASMFDP utility (handles 
dumping and clearing of SMF data set logs, digital signature validation, etc.) 
via program invocation using CALL, LINK, or ATTACH?  Some of the dfp utilities 
allow dynamic invocation from a program, and for those some doc is provided, 
however I found no equivalent doc for IFASMFDP. (probably not a good sign)

Thanks,
Mike

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-12-01 Thread Seymour J Metz
> SDSF thinks it continues

What are you trying to say? Either it is one field or it is not. Where are the 
SF/SFE positions?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 4:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

Tom Brennan's Vista conforms: if a field runs to the right edge of the screen 
and continues on the next line, then Ins mode pushes characters from one line 
to the next. I recall no relevant experience with any other emulators.

The problem with SDSF /+ is that its "Full Screen" is only 80 characters wide, 
so if your display is wide -- mine is 132 wide FWIW -- the field does not 
really continue. SDSF thinks it continues, and you know it continues, and I 
know it continues, but an emulator has no way of knowing.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 10:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:39:58 +0000, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
>inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
>are shifted to the right."
>
>"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
>calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
>of one line to the beginning of the next."
>
Clear enough.  Thanks.  Citation needed.

So Rob's terminal is nonconforming.  But if that's the modal behavior
among current emulators, it avails suppliers little to count on the
"standard" behavior.  Is it optional?

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-12-01 Thread Seymour J Metz
GA27-2742  for the second quote.

Entry Assist is all or nothing; if it's on then Ins mode causes inserted text 
to replace the blanks without shifting the non-blank text to the right. I don't 
recall whether it leaves a separating blank.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 1:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 17:39:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
>"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
>inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
>are shifted to the right."
>
>"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
>calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
>of one line to the beginning of the next."
>
Clear enough.  Thanks.  Citation needed.

So Rob's terminal is nonconforming.  But if that's the modal behavior
among current emulators, it avails suppliers little to count on the
"standard" behavior.  Is it optional?

>IBM had a ... sensible idea on some mode[l]s; if you enabled Entry Assist then 
>you could treat blanks as nulls for purposes of insert.
>
All blanks?  Trailing blanks?  Respect column alignment like ISPF Edit Change?

-- gil

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-12-01 Thread Seymour J Metz
> Is a written specification available,

"The INS MODE (3275/3277) or ~ (3276/3278/3279) key allows characters to be 
inserted into a field, while all characters following the point of insertion 
are shifted to the right."  

"If a field is a large one and covers more than one line, and if the situation 
calls for it, during the insert operation, characters will shift from the end 
of one line to the beginning of the next."

> Does IBM market "a real 3270" nowadays?

I doubt it. But what do HOD and PCCOMM do?

> Many emulators replace NULs followed by a non-null charater (sic)
> with spaces in the transmitted data stream,

That's what I call a Molly Malone:

 She died of a faever
 From which none could save her

IBM had a more sensible idea on some modes; if you enabled Entry Assist then 
you could treat blanks as nulls for purposes of insert.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 11:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 11:34:54 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Does anybody have a real 3270 they can test it on? FWIW, it works on TSPF, and 
>Tritus was extremely serious about compatability.
>
Is a written specification available, as opposed to empirical?
Does IBM market "a real 3270" nowadays?

Many emulators replace NULs followed by a non-null charater with
spaces in the transmitted data stream, claiming WYSIWIG as a
motivation.  This is often configurable in Settings.

At times I've relied on the original behavior.  To append characters
to a line it may be faster to "<-" around the right edge of the screen,
type there, and rely on collapse of the intervening NULs.

Long ago I used a 3270 lookalike, hardware, which optionally
displayed NULs visibly distinguished  from spaces.


>
>From: Rob Scott
>Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:50 AM
>
>I have just tested the ISRTSO (and ISRTSOA) panels in ISPF 7.2 and they both 
>fail the first issue (SKIP) when shown in a POPUP (this is expected).
>
>They both fail the second issue (INSERT/EOF) no matter if POPUP or not.

-- gil

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Re: markup a screen print

2020-12-01 Thread Seymour J Metz
Will gimp do what you need?


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Elaine Beal [elaine.b...@gxs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 12:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: markup a screen print

I want to mark up a screen print and am wanting a way to mark squares, arrows, 
etc.
i use snippet but see only a free form line to use
I use Word borders but they don't work with an object

Thanks,
Elaine

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-12-01 Thread Seymour J Metz
Does anybody have a real 3270 they can test it on? FWIW, it works on TSPF, and 
Tritus was extremely serious about compatability.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2020 3:50 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

I have just tested the ISRTSO (and ISRTSOA) panels in ISPF 7.2 and they both 
fail the first issue (SKIP) when shown in a POPUP (this is expected).

They both fail the second issue (INSERT/EOF) no matter if POPUP or not.

I think this leaves a wide-screen only solution the most likely method of 
solving this, which is not ideal but better than nothing.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 30 November 2020 22:55
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 08:14:06 +1100, Attila Fogarasi wrote:

>SKIP(ON) is the ISPF panel field attribute that causes automatic skip to
>next field when the cursor reaches the end of a field (SKIP(OFF) is the
>default). I'm not 100% sure about your second question (insert spanning
>
Not needed.

>fields) but AFAIK insert is limited to a single field (it certainly was in
>the original hardware). Normally a scrollable area would be used instead
>of 2 fields when they are actually 1 field logically. Not sure that all
>3270 emulators work correctly with the fancier data streams (or rather,
>I've run into lots of problems doing this).
>
IBM seems determined to inconvenience users of wide screens. The
"ISPF Command Shell panel (ISRTSO)" (see illustration):
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm>

... provides a single field covering 3 lines on an 80-column screen so
insertion simply works up to the size of the field.

This answers Rob's concern; Yes, it's possible.

On a wider screen, the panel is formatted in a "pillarbox" (GIYF) and
insertion works only within a single line. When I ranted about this
(on ISPF-L?) experts advised me, "Oh you need ISRTSOA":
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm<https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm>

... Hmmm. Configuration option; not available to mere mortal users.
But I copied ISRTSOA into my private ISPPLIB and renamed it. All
better. ISPF 3.17 suffers a similar misdesign in its entry panel with
wide screens for a poor reason.


>On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:29 AM Rob Scott wrote:
>
>> In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :
>>
>> (1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of
>> the input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?
>>
>> (2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to
>> insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to
>> accommodate the inserted bytes.
>>
>> If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and
>> implement a solution based on that in the next release.

-- gil

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-11-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
It's not just IBM that has never heard of orthogonality.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 5:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

On Tue, 1 Dec 2020 08:14:06 +1100, Attila Fogarasi  wrote:

>SKIP(ON) is the ISPF panel field attribute that causes automatic skip to
>next field when the cursor reaches the end of a field (SKIP(OFF) is the
>default).  I'm not 100% sure about your second question (insert spanning
>
Not needed.

>fields) but AFAIK insert is limited to a single field (it certainly was in
>the original hardware).  Normally a scrollable area would be used instead
>of 2 fields when they are actually 1 field logically.  Not sure that all
>3270 emulators work correctly with the fancier data streams (or rather,
>I've run into lots of problems doing this).
>
IBM seems determined to inconvenience users of wide screens.  The
"ISPF Command Shell panel (ISRTSO)" (see illustration):

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54u200/chap9.htm

... provides a single field covering 3 lines on an 80-column screen so
insertion simply works up to the size of the field.

This answers Rob's concern; Yes, it's possible.

On a wider screen, the panel is formatted in a "pillarbox" (GIYF) and
insertion works only within a single line.  When I ranted about this
(on ISPF-L?) experts advised me, "Oh you need ISRTSOA":

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.f54pc00/isppc115.htm

...  Hmmm.  Configuration option; not available to mere mortal users.
But I copied ISRTSOA into my private ISPPLIB and renamed it.  All
better.  ISPF 3.17 suffers a similar misdesign in its entry panel with
wide screens for a poor reason.


>On Tue, Dec 1, 2020 at 7:29 AM Rob Scott wrote:
>
>> In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :
>>
>> (1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of
>> the input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?
>>
>> (2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to
>> insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to
>> accommodate the inserted bytes.
>>
>> If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and
>> implement a solution based on that in the next release.

-- gil

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-11-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
Except for the handling of the New Line order, the end of a line has no 
significance to a 3270 data stream. If the field extends into another line and 
you type into the last character of the first line, then you advance to the 
first character of the next line. Similarly, if a field has trailing nulls or 
equivalent, then insert will work beyond the end of the first line. You can 
test this on the option 6 panel.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

In your example, assuming that the input field spans two lines :

(1) When the user starts to type on the first line and gets to the end of the 
input field in the line, is the input skipped to the next line?

(2) If there is existing data on the second line and the user attempts to 
insert data on the first line, does the data on the second line shift to 
accommodate the inserted bytes.

If both the above are satisfied, then I would doff my cap to you and implement 
a solution based on that in the next release.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software

On 30 Nov 2020 6:31 pm, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
EXTERNAL EMAIL




I don't understand. If you have an SFE in the middle of line n and the next 
SF/SFE is at the end of line n+1, what insert issue exists? Or do you have 
another field at the end of line n, e.g.,

)ATTR DEFAULT(%+])
^ TYPE(INPUT) CAPS(OFF) INTENS(HIGH) MAXLEN(120)
! TYPE(OUTPUT) INTENS(HIGH)
)BODY EXPAND(\\)
%BROWSE ───% \─\%LINE!ZLINE %COL!ZCL !ZCR %
%COMMAND ═══>^ZCMD \ \ %SCROLL ═══>]ZSCR%

If you move the command field to the end of the line then you can make it 
several lines long with no problem.



--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

>> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog 
>> standard.

The insert mode issue still persists. We have tried using ZEXPAND but that does 
not solve the problem either.

As for 43x80 being archaic, we still have LOTS of customers still using 24x80 !

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field.

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3><http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Origina

Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-11-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
I don't understand. If you have an SFE in the middle of line n and the next 
SF/SFE is at the end of line n+1, what insert issue exists? Or do you have 
another field at the end of line n, e.g.,

 )ATTR DEFAULT(%+])
   ^  TYPE(INPUT) CAPS(OFF) INTENS(HIGH) MAXLEN(120)
   !  TYPE(OUTPUT) INTENS(HIGH)
 )BODY EXPAND(\\)
 %BROWSE ───% \─\%LINE!ZLINE %COL!ZCL  !ZCR  %
 %COMMAND ═══>^ZCMD \ \ %SCROLL ═══>]ZSCR%

If you move the command field to the end of the line then you can make it 
several lines long with no problem.



--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

>> How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog 
>> standard.

The insert mode issue still persists. We have tried using ZEXPAND but that does 
not solve the problem either.

As for 43x80 being archaic, we still have LOTS of customers still using 24x80 !

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: 30 November 2020 16:39
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL



> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field.

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3<http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3>


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> On Behalf Of Paul 
Gilmartin
Sent: 29 November 2020 18:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> ...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected.
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR. inserting characters you didn't type, 
whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation. If it's WAD, it should 
go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender is a faithless 3270 emulator.)

(I'm most comfortable on systems where blanks aren't treated so specially.)

>Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks!

-- gil

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Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

2020-11-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
> The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
> there is a solution to that 
> apart from a wide screen panel that has a single input field. 

How about a panel that has a single field across two lines? That's bog standard.

> This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 modes and 
> most of our users are 43x80.

I never considered 132 to be wide since the advent of the 3290. You have to 
accommodate them if your users are still in the 19th century, but 43x80 sounds 
so archaic.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Rob 
Scott [rsc...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 11:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

A few notes about this issue.

(1) The reason that "skip" does not work on the POPUP panel is down to the 
interplay between the ISPF attributes and the escape characters used to draw 
the window.
(2) The original developer workaround for (1) was the ability to switch to a 
panel using PF5 to remove the POPUP window and that enables "skip" to work.
(3) Automatically stripping trailing blanks from the first line would require 
SDSF to have knowledge of the syntax of the command or some sort of awareness 
of whether quotes or double-quotes are in effect and unbounded and if so, is 
this meaningful or not. This is not something that SDSF wants to get involved 
in as the text is freeform and what might appear to be apparent strange values 
may be expected by the receiving user or ISV software product that processes 
the command.

The lack of "insert mode" across both lines is frustrating, but I am not sure 
there is a solution to that apart from a wide screen panel that has a single 
input field. This would only provide relief for people running wide screen 3270 
modes and most of our users are 43x80.

Rob Scott
Rocket Software


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: 29 November 2020 18:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extraneous blanks in SDSF issued command

EXTERNAL EMAIL





On Sun, 29 Nov 2020 17:59:14 +, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>...
>EOF does not work because the two line buffers appear not be connected.
>
If it doesn't work, it's cause for SR.  inserting characters you didn't type, 
whether "" or "CRAP" is a data integrity violation.  If it's WAD, it should 
go to RFE.

(Sometimes the offender is a faithless 3270 emulator.)

(I'm most comfortable on systems where blanks aren't treated so specially.)

>Inserting blanks up front might work. Kind of a pain. But thanks!

-- gil

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Re: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

2020-11-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
That appears to refer to native NetView EXECs, not to REXX NetView EXECs.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Barkow, Eileen [02bc504b1642-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

APAR Identifier .. OA36757  Last Changed  11/09/02
  STRIP FUNCTION TO STRIP OFF LEADING AND TRAILING BLANKS
  FROM A VARIABLE VALUE

  Symptom .. NF NEWFUNCTION   Status ... CLOSED  UR1
  Severity ... 3  Date Closed . 11/08/01
  Component .. 5697NV600  Duplicate of 
  Reported Release . 10B  Fixed Release  999
  Component Name NETVIEW FOR Z/O  Special Notice   ATTENTION
  Current Target Date ..11/08/15  Flags
  SCP ...NEW FUNCTION
  Platform 


  Status Detail: SHIPMENT - Packaged solution is available for
shipment.

  PE PTF List:

  PTF List:
  Release 10B   : UA61616 available 11/08/16 (F108 )


  Parent APAR:OA35722
  Child APAR list:


  ERROR DESCRIPTION:
  New function, called STRIP, that would strip off leading and
  trailing blanks from a variable value.
  This function could only be specified in the CMD string in an
  EXEC, and would specify the variable that would be stripped
  of blanks.


  LOCAL FIX:


  PROBLEM SUMMARY:
  
  * USERS AFFECTED: All users ot Tivoli NetView for z/OS.*
  
  * PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: When a command is executed as a result  *
  *  of an automation table EXEC statement,  *
  *  if any variable values contain leading  *
  *  or trailing blanks, the resulting   *
  *  command may fail, for example, if a *
  *  blank signifies the end of the command  *
  *  string. *
  
  * RECOMMENDATION:  *
  
  After NetView automation table processing constructs a command
  from constant strings (in quotation marks) and variables defined
  in the automation table (not in quotation marks), there is no
  way to ensure that the resulting command does not contain
  blanks. If a variable value contains blanks, and the resulting
  command does not work properly because of those blanks, NetView
  does not provide a way to strip off those blanks to allow the
  command to work.


  PROBLEM CONCLUSION:


  TEMPORARY FIX:


  COMMENTS:
  A new function, called STRIP, is being provided in automation
  table processing which can be specified in the command string in
  an EXEC statement. When specified, the variable value, without
  leading or trailing blanks or hex zeroes will be used instead of
  the variable value as specified.

  The Tivoli NetView for z/OS V6R1 Automation Guide (SC27-2846-00)
  should be changed as follows:
   In Chapter 15, The Automation Table, in the section named
   Actions, in the description of the EXEC action, in the
   description of 'cmdstring', the following should be added after
   the first paragraph:

 Because variable values could contain leading or trailing
 blanks which could cause the command to fail, you can use the
 STRIP function to strip off leading and trailing blanks or
 hexadecimal zeroes.

   Syntax: STRIP(varname)
 where 'varname' is the variable name whose value without
 leading and trailing blanks and hexadecimal zeroes is to
 be inserted into the command.


  MODULES/MACROS:   DSIAMCMD DSIMACTN DSIMCT   DSIMPRS


  SRLS:  SC27284600


  RTN CODES:


  CIRCUMVENTION:
  Instead of invoking the necessary command string from the
  EXEC statement in the automation table, specify a CLIST to be
  executed, passing the appropriate parameters, which will itself
  use the REXX STRIP() function and execute the desired command.


  MESSAGE TO SUBMITTER:



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jeremy Nicoll
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 9:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020, at 14:00, Barkow, Eileen wrote:
> Sorry about that. I see that STRIP is available in NETVIEW REXX now.
> it was not a few releases ago when I tried to use it.

I have a handful of copies of old netview execs here.  I'm looking now at one I 
wrote in 1996 and it uses strip().

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are 

Re: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

2020-11-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
Where and how is the code failing?

BTW, you don't need the STRIP the output of the WORD function.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
saurabh khandelwal [sourabhkhandelwal...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

Dear Group ,



We have requirement to automate below manual reply comes in console every
time, when we don’t find volume in our system and the standard reply to
these message is  *Reply id, NO.*


10.14.03 JOB09020 *29 *IEF455D* MOUNT *SP5145* ON 0FAA FOR CASPLPRO SARBCH
OR REPLY 'NO'l

In this above message, whenever we get message id *IEF455D *on SDSF console
and on 4th place in this line, we get volume name* SP5145 or SP5146 ,
SP5147, SP5149 *then immediately using automation we should reply

With* reply id, no.*



In order to do this, we created



IF MSGID = 'IEF455D'
THEN

EXEC(CMD('AUTREXX')) NETLOG(Y) SYSLOG(Y);





Then into *'AUTREXX'* REXX side,







/* REXX  */

trace r

'PIPE SAFE * | STEM MSG.'

TOvolume = Word( Msg,4 )

MsgID = Word( Msg,1 )

MsgID1 = substr(MsgID,2,2)



volume =  'SP5145 ' ,

   'SP5146 ' ,

'SP5147 '



Do i =  1 to Words(volume)

comp_vol = Word(volume,i)

 If Strip(comp_vol) =  TOvolume Then



But unable to complete this logic in to REXX. Can you please help in
building this REXX, which can help in replying on console once the above
mentioned criteria matches.



*Regards*

*Saurabh*

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Re: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

2020-11-30 Thread Seymour J Metz
Where is that documented? As far as I can tell Netview doesn't have its own 
REXX interpreter, but rather uses TSO/E REXX and the REXX compiler product.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Barkow, Eileen [02bc504b1642-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 7:42 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

STRIP is not  allowed in NETVIEW REXX
You can just do something like this:

V = SUBSTR(MSGVAR(4),1,8)
IF V = '*SP5145*' | V='*SP5146*' THEN
R MSGVAR(1),NO
EXIT
EXIT


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Itschak Mugzach
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2020 3:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Auto Reply on SDSF Console

See SYS1.PARMLIB(AUTORxx)

*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux and 
IBM I **|  *

*|* *Email**: i_mugz...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
*Skype**: ItschakMugzach **|* *Web**: 
https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.securiteam.co.il%2Fdata=04%7C01%7Cebarkow%40doitt.nyc.gov%7C81c1ad985d0445fd8ddb08d8950ba0e8%7C73d61799c28440228d4154cc4f1929ef%7C0%7C0%7C637423224506873215%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=2AQVh%2FozrTHV3zoGnFQrAux5punh39BwcagHjtpchog%3Dreserved=0
  **|*





On Mon, Nov 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM saurabh khandelwal < 
sourabhkhandelwal...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Group ,
>
>
>
> We have requirement to automate below manual reply comes in console
> every time, when we don’t find volume in our system and the standard
> reply to these message is  *Reply id, NO.*
>
>
> 10.14.03 JOB09020 *29 *IEF455D* MOUNT *SP5145* ON 0FAA FOR CASPLPRO
> SARBCH OR REPLY 'NO'l
>
> In this above message, whenever we get message id *IEF455D *on SDSF
> console and on 4th place in this line, we get volume name* SP5145 or
> SP5146 , SP5147, SP5149 *then immediately using automation we should
> reply
>
> With* reply id, no.*
>
>
>
> In order to do this, we created
>
>
>
> IF MSGID = 'IEF455D'
> THEN
>
> EXEC(CMD('AUTREXX')) NETLOG(Y) SYSLOG(Y);
>
>
>
>
>
> Then into *'AUTREXX'* REXX side,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> /* REXX  */
>
> trace r
>
> 'PIPE SAFE * | STEM MSG.'
>
> TOvolume = Word( Msg,4 )
>
> MsgID = Word( Msg,1 )
>
> MsgID1 = substr(MsgID,2,2)
>
>
>
> volume =  'SP5145 ' ,
>
>'SP5146 ' ,
>
> 'SP5147 '
>
>
>
> Do i =  1 to Words(volume)
>
> comp_vol = Word(volume,i)
>
>  If Strip(comp_vol) =  TOvolume Then
>
>
>
> But unable to complete this logic in to REXX. Can you please help in
> building this REXX, which can help in replying on console once the
> above mentioned criteria matches.
>
>
>
> *Regards*
>
> *Saurabh*
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: OT: using ultrawide monitor?

2020-11-28 Thread Seymour J Metz
Does ISPF support anything wider than 160?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
John McKown [john.archie.mck...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 12:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: OT: using ultrawide monitor?

I guess this might be a bit off topic. My apologies if it is.

I am considering replacing my 43 inch TV (4K HDR, 3840x2160, 16:9 aspect
ratio) with an "UltraWide" 35 inch, 3440x1440, 21:9 aspect ratio, gaming
monitor. I am wondering if I could then have a very wide 3270 screen, to
better view and edit UNIX files, in ISPF (because IBM's "vi" editor is not
very good, IMO), with long lines while still being readable.

So anybody using an UltraWide?

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Re: OT: using ultrawide monitor?

2020-11-28 Thread Seymour J Metz
I like REXX, but the choice of a comma as a continuation characters is a booby 
trap for the unwary. I much prefer either using an otherwise unused character 
or having an explicit statement terminator, e.g., semicolon.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2020 1:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OT: using ultrawide monitor?

On Sat, 28 Nov 2020 11:03:31 -0600, John McKown wrote:

>I guess this might be a bit off topic. My apologies if it is.
>
>I am considering replacing my 43 inch TV (4K HDR, 3840x2160, 16:9 aspect
>ratio) with an "UltraWide" 35 inch, 3440x1440, 21:9 aspect ratio, ...
>
>So anybody using an UltraWide?
>
I believe that at some point continuation lines offer better legibility,
just plain convenience than ultra-long lines.  However:
o Programming languages should not make that choice but leave it to the 
programmer.
o The continuation convention should be convenient, not cumbersome,
  even for strings.  Editing should be easy.

JCL and HLASM are egregious offenders on both counts.  RFEs recommended.
Don't know about Python.  C, Shell, and Rexx are pretty good.

-- gil

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
I don't beleive that either squished or unsquished is a technical term, but if 
they're going to use one then why shouldn't we use the other?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jackson, Rob 
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 2:09 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

Not that I found.  But I take it as a given they maintain an un-squished 
version.  By the way, I did not come up with that technical term.  They all 
have header comments like this:

/REXX**/
/* Part: AOFEIZPD  Squished:  19 May 2011 */

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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Seymour J Metz
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.]

Did IBM also provide a libray of unsquished REXX code?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jackson, Rob 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

Years ago while disabling some built-in automation in SA for z/OS I found that 
the REXX code SA actually ran live was almost all "squished."  I didn't dig 
into it, but I assumed (I still believe safely) that it was to reduce 
interpreter overhead.  I just took a look at it tonight to see how the 
efficiency-minded SA developers coded keywords.  A brief look says the majority 
are first-letter capitalized (as Mike said to do, I believe--which is the 
reason I always have) or completely capitalized; however, there are enough 
exceptions to make me wonder.

By the way, if you haven't seen it, here's a snippet as an example.  It is 
really . . . something:

If cond = 'NOVALUE' | cond = 'HALT' Then rc = 'N/A';Select When cond = 'HALT' 
Then desc = 'CLIST HALTED'
When cond = 'SYNTAX' Then desc = errortext(rc);When cond = 'FAILURE' Then Do If 
rc = -1 Then;desc = 'COMMAND NOT FOUND';If rc = -3 Then desc = 'COMMAND NOT 
PERMITTED';End;Otherwise Nop;End "AOFMSG 
"cond",760,LOG,"loc.0me","sigl","rc",'"desc"'";Call Aof_Exit -5;Exit -5 
Aof_Silent_Error:;Call Aof_Exit 0;Exit 0;Aof_Exit:;Procedure Expose loc.
Do ix = 1 to Words(loc.0claim_tickets);ticket = WORD(loc.0claim_tickets,ix) 
Call INGPXDEL ticket;End;if loc.0UserExit = 'Y' then;call @User_Exit lrc = 
Arg(1);If Arg(2) <> 'TEXT' then;If datatype(lrc,'W') ^= 1 Then lrc = 0 
Select;When cglobal('AOFDEBUG') = 'Y' Then "AOFMSG" 
loc.0me",702,LOG,"time()","opid()","lrc;When loc.0debug = 'Y' Then Call 
Aof_Debug 'COMPLETE, RC='||lrc||'.';Otherwise nop;End;Exit lrc

First Horizon Bank
Mainframe Technical Support

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jeremy Nicoll
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 9:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.]

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020, at 02:20, Al Ferguson wrote:
> Performance reasons. Without the quotes REXX first interprets MVS as a
> variable name

Are you sure?

I thought that environment (after address) was one of the few places in REXX 
where quotes were unnecessary because what's typed there is regarded as a 
constant.

And, that if you actually wanted a variable's value to be used, you'd have to 
code

  address value varname


> Back in the MVS & MVS/XA Days, these types of performance
> optimizations were actually quite noticeable.

Even if what you said above was true, I doubt very much that capitalising the 
environment name would ever have make a measurable difference, bearing in mind 
how few times one would typically specify an address statement in a typical 
exec.


> I similarly "always" capitalize REXX Key words, to save REXX from
> having to spend cycles actually FOLDING then up.

It's been years since I wrote any REXX on a mainframe, but I know I didn't 
uppercase my code back then ... and a quick look at current manuals shows 
sample code is sometimes in uppercase, and sometimes mixed case.

Is this idea that uppercase REXX is more efficient something that everyone here 
accepts?

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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This

Re: Unable to ALLOC dsn without new

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
Familiarity?

Operand parsing?

Stack?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Lizette Koehler 
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 1:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Unable to ALLOC dsn without new

I would put a LISTC ENT for the dataset before the allocation
If RC > 0 Then write out some diagnostics


Not sure why people are still writing in CLIST rather than using REXX.  But to 
each their own


Lizette


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Elaine Beal
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 9:36 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Unable to ALLOC dsn without new

I give up :), asking for help

Defining a new user and logon proc issues

SET  = 
ALLOC FI(ISPPROF) SHR  DA('')

the dsn is new and evidently the alloc fails

but i can manually alloc a new dsn without the new parm (under another ID)

if I try a manual allocate with the failing ID (and no new parm), it fails with

ALLOC FI(ISPPROF) SHR  DA('gayleyc.isptabl')
 DATA SET GAYLEYC.ISPTABL NOT IN CATALOG OR CATALOG CAN NOT BE ACCESSED
 ENTER DATA SET NAME -

I thought you had to have the new parm but i can ALLOC a new dsn under another 
id without it.

The ALLOC proc works on another LPAR.


Thanks,
Elaine

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
As I recall, NEATER made it readable, but there is no way to reconstruct the 
original indentation of, e.g., comments.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 17:26:30 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Did IBM also provide a libray of unsquished REXX code?
>
On CMS, they tend to provide two: source and compiled:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.rexa100/h198160575.htm

Would a pretty-printer have untangled your squisned PL/1?

There's a thread going on a Curl forum concerning methods
of transferring file permissions.  This chore is amplified by
extended attributes.  And the z/OS extensions to FTP for
transferring load modules make no accommodation for
possible need to have a non-IBM waystation.

-- gil

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Re: Unable to ALLOC dsn without new

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
What about the relevant security profiles? 
Was there a security violation logged?

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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Elaine Beal 
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Unable to ALLOC dsn without new

sorry, yes, there is an alias defined

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
Did IBM also provide a libray of unsquished REXX code?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jackson, Rob 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

Years ago while disabling some built-in automation in SA for z/OS I found that 
the REXX code SA actually ran live was almost all "squished."  I didn't dig 
into it, but I assumed (I still believe safely) that it was to reduce 
interpreter overhead.  I just took a look at it tonight to see how the 
efficiency-minded SA developers coded keywords.  A brief look says the majority 
are first-letter capitalized (as Mike said to do, I believe--which is the 
reason I always have) or completely capitalized; however, there are enough 
exceptions to make me wonder.

By the way, if you haven't seen it, here's a snippet as an example.  It is 
really . . . something:

If cond = 'NOVALUE' | cond = 'HALT' Then rc = 'N/A';Select
When cond = 'HALT' Then desc = 'CLIST HALTED'
When cond = 'SYNTAX' Then desc = errortext(rc);When cond = 'FAILURE' Then Do
If rc = -1 Then;desc = 'COMMAND NOT FOUND';If rc = -3 Then
desc = 'COMMAND NOT PERMITTED';End;Otherwise Nop;End
"AOFMSG "cond",760,LOG,"loc.0me","sigl","rc",'"desc"'";Call Aof_Exit -5;Exit -5
Aof_Silent_Error:;Call Aof_Exit 0;Exit 0;Aof_Exit:;Procedure Expose loc.
Do ix = 1 to Words(loc.0claim_tickets);ticket = WORD(loc.0claim_tickets,ix)
Call INGPXDEL ticket;End;if loc.0UserExit = 'Y' then;call @User_Exit
lrc = Arg(1);If Arg(2) <> 'TEXT' then;If datatype(lrc,'W') ^= 1 Then lrc = 0
Select;When cglobal('AOFDEBUG') = 'Y' Then
"AOFMSG" loc.0me",702,LOG,"time()","opid()","lrc;When loc.0debug = 'Y' Then
Call Aof_Debug 'COMPLETE, RC='||lrc||'.';Otherwise nop;End;Exit lrc

First Horizon Bank
Mainframe Technical Support

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jeremy Nicoll
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 9:50 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

[External Email. Exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments.]

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020, at 02:20, Al Ferguson wrote:
> Performance reasons. Without the quotes REXX first interprets MVS as a
> variable name

Are you sure?

I thought that environment (after address) was one of the few places in REXX 
where quotes were unnecessary because what's typed there is regarded as a 
constant.

And, that if you actually wanted a variable's value to be used, you'd have to 
code

  address value varname


> Back in the MVS & MVS/XA Days, these types of performance
> optimizations were actually quite noticeable.

Even if what you said above was true, I doubt very much that capitalising the 
environment name would ever have make a measurable difference, bearing in mind 
how few times one would typically specify an address statement in a typical 
exec.


> I similarly “always” capitalize REXX Key words, to save REXX from
> having to spend cycles actually FOLDING then up.

It's been years since I wrote any REXX on a mainframe, but I know I didn't 
uppercase my code back then ... and a quick look at current manuals shows 
sample code is sometimes in uppercase, and sometimes mixed case.

Is this idea that uppercase REXX is more efficient something that everyone here 
accepts?

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: Unable to ALLOC dsn without new

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
First, check whether the userid is an alias to a user catalog. Second, if you 
don't already have a dialog for creating a ne user, I recommend that you write 
one to automate everything.

It's generally easier to diagnose problems under TSO if you enable all output, 
e.g., PROFILE MSGID  WTPMSG.; in this case I'm pretty confident that it's a 
catalog or security issue.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Elaine Beal 
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Unable to ALLOC dsn without new

I give up :), asking for help

Defining a new user and logon proc issues

SET  = 
ALLOC FI(ISPPROF) SHR  DA('')

the dsn is new and evidently the alloc fails

but i can manually alloc a new dsn without the new parm (under another ID)

if I try a manual allocate with the failing ID (and no new parm), it fails with

ALLOC FI(ISPPROF) SHR  DA('gayleyc.isptabl')
 DATA SET GAYLEYC.ISPTABL NOT IN CATALOG OR CATALOG CAN NOT BE ACCESSED
 ENTER DATA SET NAME -

I thought you had to have the new parm but i can ALLOC a new dsn under another 
id without it.

The ALLOC proc works on another LPAR.


Thanks,
Elaine

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
I might believe

ADDRESS (CMD)

Unfortunately, CALL does not have a similar option, nor support the NAME option 
of ANSI REXX.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Al 
Ferguson 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

They are not necessary, but you can use a variable after the ADDRESS.  I have 
written a few REXX programs where I used:
ADDRESS CMD

Where I set CMD = “environ actual-command”.

Any non-quoted word will:
1.  Be folded up to all caps, if not already
2.  Determine if it is a “REXX reserved word”
(environments are not reserved words)
3.  If not, it is a variable and is resolved
(non-initialized variables resolve to the variable name folded 
to all caps)
4.  The resolved string is then passed to the REXX Interpreter
5.  Then executed (or if not executable, an error raised)

Quoted strings are passed, as is, to the Interpreter; skipping the first 3 
steps.

Sent via Al Ferguson’s iPad

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 20:50, Jeremy Nicoll  
> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2020, at 02:20, Al Ferguson wrote:
>> Performance reasons. Without the quotes REXX first interprets MVS as a
>> variable name
>
> Are you sure?
>
> I thought that environment (after address) was one of the few places in
> REXX where quotes were unnecessary because what's typed there is
> regarded as a constant.
>
> And, that if you actually wanted a variable's value to be used, you'd have
> to code
>
>  address value varname
>
>
>> Back in the MVS & MVS/XA Days, these types of performance optimizations
>> were actually quite noticeable.
>
> Even if what you said above was true, I doubt very much that capitalising
> the environment name would ever have make a measurable difference,
> bearing in mind how few times one would typically specify an address
> statement in a typical exec.
>
>
>> I similarly “always” capitalize REXX Key words, to save REXX from
>> having to spend cycles actually FOLDING then up.
>
> It's been years since I wrote any REXX on a mainframe, but I know I didn't
> uppercase my code back then ... and a quick look at current manuals shows
> sample code is sometimes in uppercase, and sometimes mixed case.
>
> Is this idea that uppercase REXX is more efficient something that everyone
> here accepts?
>
> --
> Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
"Note that the names of built-infunctions (and generally the names of external 
routines, too) are in uppercase; therefore, you should uppercase the name in 
the literal string."

That seems to say that REXX does *NOT* force it upper.

--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 11:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 02:07:20 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>I don't know why he quoted it, but quoting the environment name is certainly 
>valid. It's probably a matter of local style.
>
IIRC, in CMS quoted environment names and external function names
are taken as-is.  In TSO they are forced upper.  In OMVS I don't know
whether 'wombat'() and 'WOMBAT'() can distinguish the respective
functions in UNIX files.


On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 18:34:14 -0600, Al Ferguson wrote:

>FYI: EXECIO is supported by MVS and is not part of the TSO 
>extensions/functions of REXX.
>   ADDRESS “MVS” “EXECIO ”
>
>It appears to work under TSO, because REXX then passes it to MVS before 
>throughing an error.
>
Who excuses the unmatched "("?  But do I remember vaguely that
a missing ")" allowed in TSO commands?

>EXECIO can be used under IRXMVS,
>
"IRXMVS"?  "IRXJCL"?  Whatever.

>but you will need to use BPXWDYN if you want to do dynamic allocation
>(under OS390, BPXWDYN was part of, and required,USS. As of zOS,
>this is no longer the case).
>
IIRC, WJS early made BPXWDYN available as a load module on the
Tools & Toys page, but it never depended on OMVS.

Irritatingly, ADDRESS MVS EXECIO under OMVS has different syntax
and semantics from ADDRESS MVS EXECIO under TSO.  I understand
that "ADDRESS sh 'time'" is different from "ADDRESS TSO 'time'", but
the same host environment should be the same.


On Tue, 24 Nov 2020 11:57:55 +1000, Peter Vels wrote:

>x all 'foo bar'
>del all x
>
Of course.  Thanks.

The drawback is that you're flying blind; you don't see the lines
you're about to delete.  But IIRC vaguely that there's a command
that swaps X and NX lines.

Counting keystrokes because I believe interactive editing should
be a motor skill; ergonomically minimal:  Don't you need a couple
s in there?


On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 20:20:31 -0600, Al Ferguson wrote:

>Performance reasons. Without the quotes REXX first interprets MVS as a 
>variable name, which (probable) has not been set, so takes on the value of the 
>variable name in caps. By putting it in caps, and enclosing it in quotes, I 
>save REXX a few steps and it goes directly to the MVS ADDRESS environment to 
>find the EXECIO function.
>
The formal syntax of Rexx is a nightmare.  Consider the differences between:
address MVS
address ( MVS )
address(  MVS )
address( "MVS" )
... all different.
>...
>I similarly “always” capitalize REXX Key words, to save REXX from having to 
>spend cycles actually FOLDING then up. Old habits, but again I think more 
>readable.
>
I doubt that matters much.  But there's an obe\servable advantage
of "x==y" over "X=Y".  But beware the semantic difference.

And function calls are expensive.  PARSE is faster than SUBSTR() if
you can do the same thing with either.

-- gil

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-24 Thread Seymour J Metz
Compressing REXX executable code in large packages is reasonable if the 
uncompressed form is available for maintenance. OS/2 has a neat trick; the 
first time you call a REXX script, the compiler saves the tokenized code in an 
extended attribute; the next time you call it, the interpreter uses the 
existing tokenized form.

I once had the "pleasure" of getting a PL/I program with all unnecessary white 
space removed; I was not amused.


--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Al 
Ferguson 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 11:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

As for notable performance; we had a low memory, dual CP, water cooled, heavily 
overcommitted processor. My first major program covered IBM CSP v3.2 to v3.3, 
and converted DB2 View names w/shortened column names (7 characters or less, as 
v3.2 supported up to 8 character variables). This ran for 5.75 hours over our 
code base; ~5.25 with these and a few other optimizations (e.g. putting an 
entire DO loops on 1 line where possible).

Since then IBM has made numerous REXX performance improvements and supports 
more memory, more efficiently. This means these optimizations are much less 
relevant. But, if your code is heavily used, it is still worth it. Also, I 
think it is more readable.

Sent via Al Ferguson’s iPad

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 21:56, Al Ferguson  wrote:
>
> They are not necessary, but you can use a variable after the ADDRESS.  I 
> have written a few REXX programs where I used:
>ADDRESS CMD
>
> Where I set CMD = “environ actual-command”.
>
> Any non-quoted word will:
>1.Be folded up to all caps, if not already
>2.Determine if it is a “REXX reserved word”
>(environments are not reserved words)
>3.If not, it is a variable and is resolved
>(non-initialized variables resolve to the variable name folded to all 
> caps)
>4.The resolved string is then passed to the REXX Interpreter
>5.Then executed (or if not executable, an error raised)
>
> Quoted strings are passed, as is, to the Interpreter; skipping the first 3 
> steps.
>
> Sent via Al Ferguson’s iPad
>
>>> On Nov 23, 2020, at 20:50, Jeremy Nicoll  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Nov 2020, at 02:20, Al Ferguson wrote:
>>> Performance reasons. Without the quotes REXX first interprets MVS as a
>>> variable name
>>
>> Are you sure?
>>
>> I thought that environment (after address) was one of the few places in
>> REXX where quotes were unnecessary because what's typed there is
>> regarded as a constant.
>>
>> And, that if you actually wanted a variable's value to be used, you'd have
>> to code
>>
>> address value varname
>>
>>
>>> Back in the MVS & MVS/XA Days, these types of performance optimizations
>>> were actually quite noticeable.
>>
>> Even if what you said above was true, I doubt very much that capitalising
>> the environment name would ever have make a measurable difference,
>> bearing in mind how few times one would typically specify an address
>> statement in a typical exec.
>>
>>
>>> I similarly “always” capitalize REXX Key words, to save REXX from
>>> having to spend cycles actually FOLDING then up.
>>
>> It's been years since I wrote any REXX on a mainframe, but I know I didn't
>> uppercase my code back then ... and a quick look at current manuals shows
>> sample code is sometimes in uppercase, and sometimes mixed case.
>>
>> Is this idea that uppercase REXX is more efficient something that everyone
>> here accepts?
>>
>> --
>> Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
>>
>> --
>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-23 Thread Seymour J Metz
I don't know why he quoted it, but quoting the environment name is certainly 
valid. It's probably a matter of local style.


--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jeremy Nicoll 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 8:49 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

On Tue, 24 Nov 2020, at 00:34, Al Ferguson wrote:
>   ADDRESS “MVS” “EXECIO ”

Why do you have quotes around 'MVS'?


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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-23 Thread Seymour J Metz
Quoting it, or using a variable already set to the command, should do it.

Of course, if you're running under Unix System Services then the ANSI I/O 
(stream) functions are available, but good old fashioned EXECIO still works.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 8:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 21:53:15 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>> in fact, IKJPARS weakens EXECIO.  In CMS Rexx, I can simply say:
>>EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (string It's a string!

>No.
>
OK.  I forgot to quote it.  Anything else?

On Mon, 23 Nov 2020 14:16:50 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>Pardon my ignorance. What does IKJPARS have to do with EXECIO DISKW?
>
I suspect it's a cultural influence.  TSO designers expected programmers
to be so repulsed by the necessarily unbalanced "(" in:
"EXECIO 1 DISKW"  "(STRING" 
... that they required an assignment and a stem, or a push and pull.

Coming from a background of TECO, I was aghast at the verbosity of
SPF Edit; it felt like composing a program in real time whereas using
an editor should become a motor skill.  Example: if I want to delete
several lines containing "foo bar" in vi:
/foo bar
ddnddndd ...
or:
:g/foo bar/d

in ISPF Edit (I think):

x all
f 'foo bar'
del all
reset

Is there a better way?  Do I need to hone my skills?

--gil

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-23 Thread Seymour J Metz
ObSantayanah For your information REXX is part of the TSO/E component of z/OS, 
and has been part of TSO/E since TSO/E Version 2. That's why 
https://www-01.ibm.com/servers/resourcelink/svc00100.nsf/pages/zOSV2R4Library?OpenDocument
 lists z/OS Version 2 Release 4 TSO/E REXX Reference, SA32-0972-40, under z/OS 
TSO/E.

https://www.rexxla.org/links/IBM_historical_pages/rexxtso.html is your friend.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Al 
Ferguson 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 7:34 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

FYI: EXECIO is supported by MVS and is not part of the TSO extensions/functions 
of REXX.
ADDRESS “MVS” “EXECIO ”

It appears to work under TSO, because REXX then passes it to MVS before 
throughing an error.  EXECIO can be used under IRXMVS, but you will need to use 
BPXWDYN if you want to do dynamic allocation (under OS390, BPXWDYN was part of, 
and required,USS. As of zOS, this is no longer the case).

Sent via Al Ferguson’s iPad

> On Nov 23, 2020, at 18:23, Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> Absolutely nothing. EXECIO in TSO/E does its own parsing.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> Charles Mills 
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 5:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?
>
> Pardon my ignorance. What does IKJPARS have to do with EXECIO DISKW?
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:34 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?
>
>
> in fact, IKJPARS weakens EXECIO.  In CMS Rexx, I can simply say:
>EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (string It's a string!
>
> ... (any expression).  IKJPARS would prohibit this.  I suspect this was
> a deciding factor in not providing TSO Rexx EXECIO a STRING option
> and requiring instead the cumbersome:
>X.1 = 'It''s a string!'
>'EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (stem X.'
>
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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-23 Thread Seymour J Metz
Absolutely nothing. EXECIO in TSO/E does its own parsing.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 5:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

Pardon my ignorance. What does IKJPARS have to do with EXECIO DISKW?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 10:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?


in fact, IKJPARS weakens EXECIO.  In CMS Rexx, I can simply say:
EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (string It's a string!

... (any expression).  IKJPARS would prohibit this.  I suspect this was
a deciding factor in not providing TSO Rexx EXECIO a STRING option
and requiring instead the cumbersome:
X.1 = 'It''s a string!'
'EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (stem X.'

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-23 Thread Seymour J Metz
> in fact, IKJPARS weakens EXECIO.  In CMS Rexx, I can simply say:
>EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (string It's a string!

No.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2020 1:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 11:30:02 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>It would appear to be a lot of work, but it would seem that "TSO format
>command parsing" and Rexx would be a natural marriage.
>
>I have never used IKJPARS, so I don't claim to be an expert, and others
>might disagree.
>
>The issue I am struggling with is that for all of Rexx's parsing power,
>which is of course legendary, it does not seem well-suited to classic "MVS"
>(for want of a better term) quoted strings. I am considering an EXEC that
>would accept parameters of
>
>'a quoted string', 'another quoted string', simpletoken1, simpletoken2, ...
>
The UNIX System services comes closer.  The command:
myrexx 'a quoted string'  'another quoted string'  simpletoken1  
simpletoken2  ...

not only concatenates the tokens into ARG(1) but also assigns them to
__ARGV.1,  __ARGV.2,  __ARGV.3, __ARGV.4, ...

Regina has a command line option to select Rexx-like parsing (default)
or shell-like parsing.

in fact, IKJPARS weakens EXECIO.  In CMS Rexx, I can simply say:
EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (string It's a string!

... (any expression).  IKJPARS would prohibit this.  I suspect this was
a deciding factor in not providing TSO Rexx EXECIO a STRING option
and requiring instead the cumbersome:
X.1 = 'It''s a string!'
'EXECIO 1 DISKW file-spec (stem X.'

-- gil

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Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME

2020-11-21 Thread Seymour J Metz
I remember before removable DASD, although I skipped from 3330-11 to 3350 
without ever using 3340 or 3344.

Do you remember when arms moved both vertically and horizontally?


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Tony B. 
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 6:33 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME

Anyone else out there remember removable DASD, Pizza Ovens and 3340? Having
duplicate volsers was more prone to human error at the physical level.

On Sat, Nov 21, 2020 at 11:48 AM Jesse 1 Robinson 
wrote:

> Your DASD managers are the culprits. As I said in another post, this
> condition could persist for quite some time until an attempt to vary a
> duplicate volser online or to IPL.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Steve Lee
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 2:13 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME
>
> *** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***
>
> Hi Robinson,
>
> Good to know the experience you were with.
>
> Ops has a enough time to reply the WTORs in those particular lpars.
>
> Those Volumes are 3400/3800/4800 strings, not all of volumes but some of
> ranges.
> I need to check with Storage if those has been CLIPped.
> These messages started coming out from a few last IPL cycles, no messages
> until the last few IPLs which I think Storage made a change before.
>
> Possible solution would be that being allowed to indicate that in the case
> of a dup, either the HIGHER or LOWER address be put offline in IO
> Configuration part in IODF when a dup is encountered if the CLIPped is a
> necessity at their end.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
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Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME

2020-11-21 Thread Seymour J Metz
ITYM as old as OS/360, athough the message number seems to have changed.




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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson 
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 12:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME

I believe that this behavior is as old as OS/VS. I don't understand the logic 
except that it follows the principle that all connected devices are to be 
brought online unless specifically excluded in the (nowadays) IODF. It's all a 
bit counter intuitive considering that what *we* want is a particular volume to 
be online. Achieving that goal in the face of possibly several duplicate 
volsers can be daunting.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Steve Smith
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 2:07 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

I wonder why the message asks for the unit to be kept *offline*.  Seems like 
the inverse would be more logical.  And what if you have ten volumes all named 
the same?

Yes, this is merely a Friday curiosity.  Presumably, the age-old maxim, "If it 
hurts, stop doing it" would cover most practical situations.

sas


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Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME

2020-11-21 Thread Seymour J Metz
Don't go there. Use STARTIO.


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2020 2:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME

Yep... Surprise!  Usually in the middle of the night.

I wonder if anyone has written a program that can check for duplicates
in advance of the IPL.  I would guess such code would have to run its
own SSCH instructions.

On 11/21/2020 9:48 AM, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
> Your DASD managers are the culprits. As I said in another post, this 
> condition could persist for quite some time until an attempt to vary a 
> duplicate volser online or to IPL.
>
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
> robin...@sce.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
> Steve Lee
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 2:13 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: (External):Re: IEA213A DUPLICATE VOLUME
>
> *** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***
>
> Hi Robinson,
>
> Good to know the experience you were with.
>
> Ops has a enough time to reply the WTORs in those particular lpars.
>
> Those Volumes are 3400/3800/4800 strings, not all of volumes but some of 
> ranges.
> I need to check with Storage if those has been CLIPped.
> These messages started coming out from a few last IPL cycles, no messages 
> until the last few IPLs which I think Storage made a change before.
>
> Possible solution would be that being allowed to indicate that in the case of 
> a dup, either the HIGHER or LOWER address be put offline in IO Configuration 
> part in IODF when a dup is encountered if the CLIPped is a necessity at their 
> end.
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
>
>
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Re: QSAM VB update in place

2020-11-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
Using BSAM , VBS and null segements might allow you to shorten records in some 
cases, but expanding records would still be a problem.

Which VSAM organization to use would depend on wheth3er you also need to insert 
or delete records. 


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 12:01 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: QSAM VB update in place

On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 16:47:58 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>> However what If I would like to make the record size larger I might get a 
>> s0c4 possibly

>QSAM doesn't allow changing the record length and BSAM doesn't allow changing 
>the block size
>
What about RECFM=VBS, initially padding each block with a null segment,
allowing limited insertion, expansion, and deletion?

Can a VBS block consist entirely of a null segment?
"Aint no rule saying a dog can't play basketball!"

>As others have written, this is a use case for VSAM.
?
Isn't that cheating?  ESDS?  KSDS?  RRDS?  ...?

-- gil

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Re: QSAM VB update in place

2020-11-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
> However what If I would like to make the record size larger I might get a 
> s0c4 possibly 

QSAM doesn't allow changing the record length and BSAM doesn't allow changing 
the block size. As others have written, this is a use case for VSAM.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Joseph Reichman 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 9:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: QSAM VB update in place

Hi

I am trying to update a VB record in place
The documentation says for this I have to use locate mode meaning z/os supplies 
me the buffer address
So I’m assuming if I update in place I have to use z/os or DFSMS buffer address

However what If I would like to make the record size larger I might get a s0c4 
possibly

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Re: direct z/OS operator command output to SYSLOG only?

2020-11-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
Yes, but the console restructuring did not include changing all of the messages 
to stop referring to the master console that no longer existed. Presumably the 
should now refer to master console authority.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Peter Fatzinger 
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 9:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: direct z/OS operator command output to SYSLOG only?

John,
  Glad you found the problem.  The reason you couldn't find the MASTER console 
is because the concept of the MASTER console went away somewhere around z/OS 
1.8.  Since then issuing an internal DISPLAY command without the L= would 
normally cause the command response to go to the hardcopy log as well as any 
operator console with INTIDS=Y unless the command processor did additional 
checking to not allow it.
Peter Fatzinger
IBM z/OS Core Technologies Design & Development

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Re: QSAM VB update in place

2020-11-20 Thread Seymour J Metz
You may be able to use BSAM to update a VB record in place, but you can't 
change the block size. Even if you use EXCP you would have the same problem. 
Why not use VSAM?


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Farley, Peter x23353 <031df298a9da-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 11:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: QSAM VB update in place

Assuming the xSAM I/O routines provide a BLKSIZE-sized buffer, ISTM you could 
use BSAM to read blocks, deblock records yourself, and then if you want/need to 
change a record's length you can move the remaining records (after all you have 
the byte position and length of the "current" record in the block because you 
are deblocking it yourself) up or down the block area.  Obviously checking is 
needed to prevent a record length increase from overflowing the block-sized 
buffer area.

But that sort of RYO SAM record processing seems baroque to say the least.  The 
application recovery issues if you do have a buffer overflow case would seem to 
be more trouble than the capability is worth.

I tend to agree that use of VSAM for such an application requirement would be a 
better choice, if one is forced to use the "update in place" paradigm.

Or even simpler, don't use "update in place" at all, but instead copy input to 
output changing the output record size as the application requires.  KISS.  
Uses more disk space but far easier to code and maintain.

Take a step back and look at the application requirement from an architectural 
level - do you *really* need "update in place"?  Or are you trying to shoehorn 
a new facility or capability into an existing application design that doesn't 
easily support the new thing?  If the latter, application design should change 
to meet the new requirement.

Peter

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Joseph Reichman
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 10:24 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: QSAM VB update in place

Just looking at build and get pool it would seem you supply the buffer address 
AND you are still in LOCATE mode which seems to be the requirement for update 
in place
It seems issuing the get pool
When you issue get pool the buffer address
Is placed in BUFCB of the dcb and the get or put will use that address
Seems with getpool you supply the length so if your record size expands you 
give the size in getpool

Now I haven’t tried this but this is the way I understand the doc



> On Nov 20, 2020, at 10:06 AM, Charles Mills  wrote:
>
> How might that possibly work
>
> What would QSAM do? Slide all the following records forward???
>
> This is why they invented VSAM.
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
> Behalf Of Ray Pearce
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2020 6:21 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: QSAM VB update in place
>
> Are you being serious Joe?
> How on earth do you think you can change the size of a record *in place*
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Joseph Reichman
> Sent: 20 November 2020 14:16
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: QSAM VB update in place
>
> Hi
>
> I am trying to update a VB record in place The documentation says for this I
> have to use locate mode meaning z/os supplies me the buffer address So I’m
> assuming if I update in place I have to use z/os or DFSMS buffer address
>
> However what If I would like to make the record size larger I might get a
> s0c4 possibly
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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Why are you so easily offended? Why don't you think that accuracy matters?


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 8:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 00:10:14 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>UNIT=INTRDR is not valid in JES2, and the internal reader is very much alive 
>and well. It does not present a security issue, and bog standard users can 
>exploit it freely.
>
Why do you so often feel it's necessary to state a snarky negative
rather than constructively supplying an alternative or at least
a citation such as:

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.4.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r4.hasc300/has2z1_Submitting_to_the_internal_reader_from_jobs_or_tasks.htm

I was told long ago not to bogart an INTRDR because a finite number
would be genned and if all came to be in use hardly anyone could
SUBMIT a job.  I understand subsequently this constraint has been
relieved; INTRDRs are created dynamically.

-- gil

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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
ObSchiller "Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens"

Pistol. Foot.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

Let's say the started task is setup as SURROGAT for multiple userids.
As one of those id's, if I am given access to the JCL I could submit a
job as if I was another one of those id's.  No?

On 11/19/2020 4:12 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Sure, but why do you think that specifying the userid will do them any good?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> Tom Brennan 
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 2:16 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?
>
> I just thought of one more problem with my scenario.  If the JCL can be
> updated by the user, then they could set USER= to whatever they want,
> spoiling the idea of using a single STC for multiple users.
>
> On 11/19/2020 11:13 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:
>> So if the JCL dataset can be updated by the user and they decide to
>> remove the USER= parm, then the STC userid would get control.  And in
>> that case the unique userid set up for that STC would have little access
>> and would likely fail on the first dataset.
>>
>> Do I have that about right?
>>
>> On 11/19/2020 11:04 AM, David Spiegel wrote:
>>> Hi Skip,
>>> "... the default SAF userid for STCs will be propagated to the
>>> submitted job ..."
>>> If the submitted job has a USER= on the Job Card and the RDR STC's
>>> Userid has SURROGAT to all owner of SUBMIT'd Jobs, this is not a problem.
>>> (I also would not give RDR the default STCID.)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> David
>>>
>>> On 2020-11-19 13:45, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>>>> We use a similar process. The supplied RDR proc is a bit clumsy with
>>>> stuff coded that would work as is for pretty much no one. So like
>>>> many other shops, ages ago we wrote our own version with customized
>>>> data set and unit parameters.
>>>>
>>>> The big problem with an RDR-like solution is that the default SAF
>>>> userid for STCs will be propagated to the submitted job. That might
>>>> be wildly inappropriate for the average user.
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>> .
>>>> J.O.Skip Robinson
>>>> Southern California Edison Company
>>>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
>>>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
>>>> 323-715-0595 Mobile
>>>> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
>>>> robin...@sce.com
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>>>> Behalf Of Herring, Bobby
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 8:26 AM
>>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>>> Subject: (External):Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?
>>>>
>>>> *** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***
>>>>
>>>> We have a rather simple solution we use.
>>>>
>>>> We have this command in the JES commands member:
>>>>
>>>> $TA,T=23.00,''$VS,S JOB,J=CLEANJES'''
>>>>
>>>> That starts a started task called JOB. It is in a library that is in
>>>> the JES PROCLIB concatenation.
>>>>
>>>> It looks like this:
>>>>
>>>> //JOBPROC J=XXX,   /* MEMBER NAME TO SUBMIT*/
>>>> //   L='SYS1.TXFZ.OPERJOBS.TZ' /* LIBRARY TO SUBMIT FROM   */
>>>> //**/
>>>> //*@ STARTED TASK TO SUBMIT JOBS   */
>>>> //**/
>>>> //STEP1  EXEC PGM=IEBGENER
>>>> //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
>>>> //SYSUT2   DD SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR)
>>>> //SYSUT1   DD DISP=SHR,DSN=()
>>>> //SYSINDD DUMMY
>>>>
>>>> The JES command formats out like this:
>>>>
>>>> S JOB,J=CLEANJES
>>>>
>>>> Which starts JOB and it submits CLEANJES from the
>>>> SYS1.TXFZ.OPERJOBS.TZ library to the queue.
>>>>
>>>> The comman

Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Sure, but why do you think that specifying the userid will do them any good?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Tom 
Brennan 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 2:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

I just thought of one more problem with my scenario.  If the JCL can be
updated by the user, then they could set USER= to whatever they want,
spoiling the idea of using a single STC for multiple users.

On 11/19/2020 11:13 AM, Tom Brennan wrote:
> So if the JCL dataset can be updated by the user and they decide to
> remove the USER= parm, then the STC userid would get control.  And in
> that case the unique userid set up for that STC would have little access
> and would likely fail on the first dataset.
>
> Do I have that about right?
>
> On 11/19/2020 11:04 AM, David Spiegel wrote:
>> Hi Skip,
>> "... the default SAF userid for STCs will be propagated to the
>> submitted job ..."
>> If the submitted job has a USER= on the Job Card and the RDR STC's
>> Userid has SURROGAT to all owner of SUBMIT'd Jobs, this is not a problem.
>> (I also would not give RDR the default STCID.)
>>
>> Regards,
>> David
>>
>> On 2020-11-19 13:45, Jesse 1 Robinson wrote:
>>> We use a similar process. The supplied RDR proc is a bit clumsy with
>>> stuff coded that would work as is for pretty much no one. So like
>>> many other shops, ages ago we wrote our own version with customized
>>> data set and unit parameters.
>>>
>>> The big problem with an RDR-like solution is that the default SAF
>>> userid for STCs will be propagated to the submitted job. That might
>>> be wildly inappropriate for the average user.
>>>
>>> .
>>> .
>>> J.O.Skip Robinson
>>> Southern California Edison Company
>>> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
>>> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
>>> 323-715-0595 Mobile
>>> 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
>>> robin...@sce.com
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>>> Behalf Of Herring, Bobby
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 8:26 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: (External):Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?
>>>
>>> *** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***
>>>
>>> We have a rather simple solution we use.
>>>
>>> We have this command in the JES commands member:
>>>
>>> $TA,T=23.00,''$VS,S JOB,J=CLEANJES'''
>>>
>>> That starts a started task called JOB. It is in a library that is in
>>> the JES PROCLIB concatenation.
>>>
>>> It looks like this:
>>>
>>> //JOBPROC J=XXX,   /* MEMBER NAME TO SUBMIT*/
>>> //   L='SYS1.TXFZ.OPERJOBS.TZ' /* LIBRARY TO SUBMIT FROM   */
>>> //**/
>>> //*@ STARTED TASK TO SUBMIT JOBS   */
>>> //**/
>>> //STEP1  EXEC PGM=IEBGENER
>>> //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=*
>>> //SYSUT2   DD SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR)
>>> //SYSUT1   DD DISP=SHR,DSN=()
>>> //SYSINDD DUMMY
>>>
>>> The JES command formats out like this:
>>>
>>> S JOB,J=CLEANJES
>>>
>>> Which starts JOB and it submits CLEANJES from the
>>> SYS1.TXFZ.OPERJOBS.TZ library to the queue.
>>>
>>> The commands member gets submitted each day at midnight to refresh
>>> the commands.
>>>
>>> //CMDSTXFZ  JOB (HSKP),'CMDSTXFZ',CLASS=K,MSGCLASS=9,
>>> // MSGLEVEL=(1,1),REGION=0M
>>> //*
>>> //*   LIB: SYS1.TXFZ.OPERJOBS.TZ(CMDSTXFZ)
>>> //*@   COMMANDS TO ISSUE AT IPL TIME AND EVERY 24 HOURS
>>> //*
>>> // COMMAND '$CA,ALL'
>>> // COMMAND '$TA,T=05.00,''$VS,S JOB,J=CLEANJES'''
>>> // COMMAND '$TA,T=24.00,''$VS,S JOB,J=CMDSTXFZ'''
>>> // COMMAND '$SA,ALL'
>>> //STEP1EXEC PGM=IEFBR14
>>> /*
>>>
>>> Bobby Herring
>>> Texas Farm Bureau Insurance
>>> Waco, Tx
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
>>> Behalf Of Charles Mills
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:34 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re

Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
UNIT=INTRDR is not valid in JES2, and the internal reader is very much alive 
and well. It does not present a security issue, and bog standard users can 
exploit it freely.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Randy Hudson 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 2:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

In article <0a3501d6be09$afb97b80$0f2c7280$@mcn.org>,
 Charles Mills  wrote:

> Right! I remember that. I remember that was how you ran anything. You
> started a real reader: it fired up the 2540 and read in the job. And then
> you did a S WTR (?) to print the output. OS/360 on a 360/40.
>
> Sometimes nostalgia actually is the answer.

HASP made it easier; if you allocated an output data set as UNIT=INTRDR,
whatever was written to it would get read as input to HASP (that is, if it
started with a //JOB  card, it would be treated as a batch job).  I
believe that was carried into JES2, as well, but for security reasons, it
isn't used that way any more.

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
The REXX parse statement is not one of its strong points; certainly not in the 
same league as, e.g., Perl.

There is an old XPARSE (sp?) package that interfaces REXX to IKJPARS; I wish 
that IBM would provide a supported version, pre3ferably in a new REXX processor 
incorporating ANSI and OOREXX language levels.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 2:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

It would appear to be a lot of work, but it would seem that "TSO format
command parsing" and Rexx would be a natural marriage.

I have never used IKJPARS, so I don't claim to be an expert, and others
might disagree.

The issue I am struggling with is that for all of Rexx's parsing power,
which is of course legendary, it does not seem well-suited to classic "MVS"
(for want of a better term) quoted strings. I am considering an EXEC that
would accept parameters of

'a quoted string', 'another quoted string', simpletoken1, simpletoken2, ...

I don't see a good way to parse -- without resorting to a
character-by-character loop -- input such as

'now isn''t the time', 'nor, is this', MYTOKEN, YOURTOKEN

Am I missing something?

It would be great if one could define the expected parameters and their
format to Rexx in some systematic way, parse the user's input, and get back
either parameter values in stem variables, or an error message to present to
the user.

Any suggestions?

Charles

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Re: Xmitip multi language characters problem

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
The terms "logical order" and visual order" should be applied to an entire line 
of mixed-language text Take a look at Unicode bidi processing; it can get very 
complicated.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 2:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Xmitip multi language characters problem

On 2020-11-19, at 06:58:36, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> It's not desktop versus mainframe, but rather a codepage issue. Some software 
> on both PC and mainframes expects Hebrew in visual order. Any software 
> supporting Unicode should process Hebrew text in logical order. But the OP 
> did not say which codepage he is using.
>
I would expect that to someone literate in Hebrew
(as I am not) both "visual order" and "logical order"
would mean the same thing:
o "שָׁלוֹם" comes first (on the right) and
o "עֲלֵיכֶם" comes second (on the left).

ISPF Edit supports UTF-8 and with an IBM-424 terminal ...?

> 
> From: Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 8:52 AM
>
> On 2020-11-19, at 01:39:45, Gadi Ben-Avi wrote:
>>
>> The answer depends on what SMTP server you are running on z/OS.
>> Is it SMTP or CSSMTP.
>>
> Does either of these, or TXT2PDF, avoid problems resulting
> because (as I understand) z/OS stores Hebrew text backwards
> while desktop systems expect it forwards?
>
> Can they deal with CSSID 1208 files containing a mixture of
> such as Hebrew: שָׁלוֹם עֲלֵיכֶם‎, Greek: γεια, Russian: Здравствуйте, ...?

-- gil

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
IKJPARS has much more functionality than CLIST uses, e.g., it can syntax check 
the values.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 2:54 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

CLIST has pretty much the same parsing capabilities as TSO. I think that's 
natural as both types of command processors were developed on the same 
platform. REXX OTOH was imported to MVS from elsewhere--VM? I miss those 
TSO/REXX capabilities.

I once encountered a 'REXX preamble' that provided those parsing capabilities. 
Really complex code. I haven't seen it for years. Not sure I would line up 
today to adapt it for modern use. VM denizens don't even understand this 
conversation.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 11:30 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

It would appear to be a lot of work, but it would seem that "TSO format command 
parsing" and Rexx would be a natural marriage.

I have never used IKJPARS, so I don't claim to be an expert, and others might 
disagree.

The issue I am struggling with is that for all of Rexx's parsing power, which 
is of course legendary, it does not seem well-suited to classic "MVS"
(for want of a better term) quoted strings. I am considering an EXEC that would 
accept parameters of

'a quoted string', 'another quoted string', simpletoken1, simpletoken2, ...

I don't see a good way to parse -- without resorting to a 
character-by-character loop -- input such as

'now isn''t the time', 'nor, is this', MYTOKEN, YOURTOKEN

Am I missing something?

It would be great if one could define the expected parameters and their format 
to Rexx in some systematic way, parse the user's input, and get back either 
parameter values in stem variables, or an error message to present to the user.

Any suggestions?

Charles


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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
> Also, even if you do make TSO REXX IKJPARS-capable, all you're doing
> is making REXX inconsistent across all the different subsystems that it's
> usable in.

Not even close; you're providing a useful facility fo a particular environment, 
just as ADDRSS XEDIT or ADDRESS CONSOLE does. There is no inconsistency in 
doing so.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jeremy Nicoll 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020, at 19:30, Charles Mills wrote:
> It would appear to be a lot of work, but it would seem that "TSO format
> command parsing" and Rexx would be a natural marriage.
>
> I have never used IKJPARS, so I don't claim to be an expert, and others
> might disagree.

Surely very few people use command line TSO though?  Isn't it more
common if there's something complicated to do to offer the user an
ispf panel (which will remember previous parameter choices) to set
up the options they want?

Also, even if you do make TSO REXX IKJPARS-capable, all you're doing
is making REXX inconsistent across all the different subsystems that it's
usable in.




> The issue I am struggling with is that for all of Rexx's parsing power,
> which is of course legendary, it does not seem well-suited to classic "MVS"
> (for want of a better term) quoted strings. I am considering an EXEC that
> would accept parameters of
>
> 'a quoted string', 'another quoted string', simpletoken1, simpletoken2, ...

Why do you need quoted strings?

Something I do in some situations is make the very first character of an
arbitrary string a delimiter, and then wherever that same character
appears later on, the string gets chopped up on that.  So

> 'now isn''t the time', 'nor, is this', MYTOKEN, YOURTOKEN

might become

  !now isn't the time!nor, is this!MYTOKEN!YOURTOKEN

(I also sometimes have an escaped blank character so that an exec that
expects a single token as its argument could be given

 !the!meaning!of!life

but still process that as "the meaning of life".

Or I pass tokens which are: c2x(whatever)



--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
There is an old REXX-callable package called something like XPARSE that uses 
IKJPARSE.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

No argument. Still, it's hard to beat the flexibility of TSO/CLIST parameter 
handling. I wrote a TSO command once partly for kicks. Really complicated. 
Pointers to pointers to pointers. When it was done, it was super easy to use. 
Sigh.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Jeremy Nicoll
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 12:12 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: Has anyone integrated Rexx with IKJPARS?

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020, at 19:30, Charles Mills wrote:
> It would appear to be a lot of work, but it would seem that "TSO
> format command parsing" and Rexx would be a natural marriage.
>
> I have never used IKJPARS, so I don't claim to be an expert, and
> others might disagree.

Surely very few people use command line TSO though?  Isn't it more common if 
there's something complicated to do to offer the user an ispf panel (which will 
remember previous parameter choices) to set up the options they want?

Also, even if you do make TSO REXX IKJPARS-capable, all you're doing is making 
REXX inconsistent across all the different subsystems that it's usable in.




> The issue I am struggling with is that for all of Rexx's parsing
> power, which is of course legendary, it does not seem well-suited to classic 
> "MVS"
> (for want of a better term) quoted strings. I am considering an EXEC
> that would accept parameters of
>
> 'a quoted string', 'another quoted string', simpletoken1, simpletoken2, ...

Why do you need quoted strings?

Something I do in some situations is make the very first character of an 
arbitrary string a delimiter, and then wherever that same character appears 
later on, the string gets chopped up on that.  So

> 'now isn''t the time', 'nor, is this', MYTOKEN, YOURTOKEN

might become

  !now isn't the time!nor, is this!MYTOKEN!YOURTOKEN

(I also sometimes have an escaped blank character so that an exec that expects 
a single token as its argument could be given

 !the!meaning!of!life

but still process that as "the meaning of life".

Or I pass tokens which are: c2x(whatever)



--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.


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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
It used to be common to issue a bogus START to force allocation processing.  I 
would be surprised if there weren't a lot of very short started tasks in use.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Rupert Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

Most people I mention it to are surprised, and they expect it keep running
until a modiFy or stoP tells it otherwise.

That's the reason I mentioned it :-)

Roops

On Thu., Nov. 19, 2020, 14:22 Jeremy Nicoll, 
wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Nov 2020, at 14:12, Rupert Reynolds wrote:
> > Off the cuff, I'm pretty sure it runs as an STC, but one that doesn't do
> > the things you'd normally expect an STC to do.
>
> There's nothing that an STC is "normally expected to do".  Some run for
> ages, but some don't.  The significant point is that they start immediately
> (rather than waiting for an initiator), and they tend to do system-y things
> rather than user or batch-suite ones.
>
> --
> Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own
>

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Re: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" error

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Yes, you have been able to have a defaul UID and GID for lo these many years.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" 
error

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 16:59:13 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote:

>Why would PATH have any effect here, since I have the fully qualified path 
>specified?
>
/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl itself might issue an execvp() call or depend
on having a current working directory.

It's kinda like needing dependencies in a STEPLIB.

Isn't there nowadays a facility to create by default a unique OMVS
segment when a user lacking one is dubbed?

>
>From: Frank Swarbrick 
>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 2:03 PM
>
>//STDPARM  DD *
>SH /u/dvfjs/jira_test
>
>STDERR:
>FSUM1012 The initial working directory was not specified.
>FSUM1006 A shell was not specified. Processing continues using the default 
>shell name.
>+ echo **before**
>+ /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl --help
>/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl: /u/dvfjs/jira_test 4:
>+ echo **after**
>
>STDOUT:
>**before**
>**after**

-- gil

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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Unless you were really storage constrained, you started a writer and left it 
running untill the next IPL. Also, MVT had something called an ASB Reader, 
which ran at high speed in a small region, then ran a reader/interpreter from 
the DASD file it created.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 7:19 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

Right! I remember that. I remember that was how you ran anything. You started a 
real reader: it fired up the 2540 and read in the job. And then you did a S WTR 
(?) to print the output. OS/360 on a 360/40.

Sometimes nostalgia actually is the answer.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Spiegel
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:59 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

Hi Charles,
All of the previous responses did not address your situation.

Here is a solution that only old-timers like myself would think of:
S
RDR,DSN=mypds(mymember),UNIT=,VOL=,DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=80,BLKSIZE=27920),DISP=SHR

RDR is available in SYs1.PROCLIB and has been since dinosaurs roamed the
earth.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-18 18:00, Charles Mills wrote:
> Is there a JES2 command to submit a job from a PDS or PROCLIB, roughly
> analogous to TSO SUBMIT?
>
> I want to run a predefined job, unmodified, once a day. (No, I don't have a
> real scheduler.) I figured I could do something with $T A,I=86400,'command'
> but I don't see what the command would be. It seems like an obvious thing
> for JES2 to be able to do.
>
> Do I use $VS,'S proc' and run it like a started task that just happens to
> end after a minute or so?
>
> I vaguely recall there is a way to submit a job (via TSO or whatever) such
> that it gets held and then could be released with a JES2 command but also
> left in the input queue for another release? Am I on the right track? Or ...
> ?
>
> Thanks. Sorry for the newbie question. I'm a newbie operator.
>
> Charles
>
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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
There's almost nothing special about an STC; it's got essentially the same 
environment as, e.g., APPC, ASCH, JOB, TSU. It has a userid, and its access is 
limited to that for the userid.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Rupert Reynolds 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 9:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

Off the cuff, I'm pretty sure it runs as an STC, but one that doesn't do
the things you'd normally expect an STC to do.

I don't know whether any versions of MVS and z/OS, or any automation, would
react to an "STC" ending without doing the usual, but I'd guess not.
I know MVS 3.8 (TK4-) accepts this happily, as I start my own code from
SYS1.PARMLIB(COMMNDxx)
to create an extra control block and then exit.

Roops

On Thu., Nov. 19, 2020, 13:05 Paul Gilmartin, <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 11:04:32 +, Rupert Reynolds  wrote:
> >
> >//MYJOB  DD  SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR)
> >looks like a. In fact I've used that from TSO, lthough I can't remember
> >whether the ALLOC command hndles INTRDR, or whether I used SVC 99.
> >
> WRITER(INTRDR)
>
> Likewise for BPXWDYN.
>
> >If the job can justifiably be in something like SYS1.PROCLIB, it's even
> >easier.
> >S MYJOB :-)
>
> Does that run it as a batch job or as a started task?
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: Xmitip multi language characters problem

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
It's not desktop versus mainframe, but rather a codepage issue. Some software 
on both PC and mainframes expects Hebrew in visual order. Any software 
supporting Unicode should process Hebrew text in logical order. But the OP did 
not say which codepage he is using.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 8:52 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Xmitip multi language characters problem

On 2020-11-19, at 01:39:45, Gadi Ben-Avi wrote:
>
> The answer depends on what SMTP server you are running on z/OS.
> Is it SMTP or CSSMTP.
>
Does either of these, or TXT2PDF, avoid problems resulting
because (as I understand) z/OS stores Hebrew text backwards
while desktop systems expect it forwards?

Can they deal with CSSID 1208 files containing a mixture of
such as Hebrew: שָׁלוֹם עֲלֵיכֶם‎, Greek: γεια, Russian: Здравствуйте, ...?

> For SMTP I think you need to have a file named TCPIPPFX.STANDARD.TCPXLBIN 
> with the correct translation table.
> TCPIPPFX is defined in the DATASETPREFIX parameter in TCPDATA.
>
> For CSSMTP there is a parameter named CSSMTP_CODEPAGE_CONFIG. The value 
> should be IBM-424.
> These is also a parameter call Charset which should be ISO8859-8.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Weizman arbel
> Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:10 AM
>
> I am working in israeli bank
> And have a problem with
> Hebrew characters
> When i am sending email
> By xmitip.

-- gil

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Re: Xmitip multi language characters problem

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Which EBCDIC code page are you using? What parameters do you have on xmitip?

You may have to do the translation yourself and send the data as binary.



iC


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Weizman arbel 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Xmitip multi language characters problem

Hello ,
I am working in israeli bank
And have a problem with
Hebrew characters
When i am sending email
By xmitip.
Hebrew characters doesn't
Translate.
Any suggestion how to solve
This problem ?
(Where and how to change the
   Smtp translate characters table ?)

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Re: Xmitip multi language characters problem

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
Nit: both are SMTP clients. An SMTP server receives jobs via SMTP.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Gadi Ben-Avi 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 3:39 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Xmitip multi language characters problem

The answer depends on what SMTP server you are running on z/OS.
Is it SMTP or CSSMTP.
For SMTP I think you need to have a file named TCPIPPFX.STANDARD.TCPXLBIN with 
the correct translation table.
TCPIPPFX is defined in the DATASETPREFIX parameter in TCPDATA.

For CSSMTP there is a parameter named CSSMTP_CODEPAGE_CONFIG. The value should 
be IBM-424.
These is also a parameter call Charset which should be ISO8859-8.

Gadi

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Weizman arbel
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 10:10 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Xmitip multi language characters problem

Hello ,
I am working in israeli bank
And have a problem with
Hebrew characters
When i am sending email
By xmitip.
Hebrew characters doesn't
Translate.
Any suggestion how to solve
This problem ?
(Where and how to change the
   Smtp translate characters table ?)

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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
If you have a card reader and you start RDR with the address of a card reader 
then it submits jobs from that cards reader. Subject to security, you can read 
from any dataset as long as it supports FB80.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Jeremy Nicoll 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 4:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020, at 00:19, Charles Mills wrote:
> Right! I remember that. I remember that was how you ran anything. You
> started a real reader: it fired up the 2540 and read in the job. And
> then you did a S WTR (?) to print the output. OS/360 on a 360/40.

But the S RDR... command doesn't start a real reader.  It's just starting a
started task.   The previous reply talking about $TA etc was for faking a
scheduler.  All you need is a way to run an IEBGENER to an INTRDR and
that could also be in a normal job (subject to what one's security software
allows).

You only need the $TA aspect if you want JES2 to handle the aspect of
deciding when the STC is to execute.

--
Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

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Re: direct z/OS operator command output to SYSLOG only?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz


SYSLOG is not a console, nor is OPERLOG. You could direct the output to an out 
of line area, e.g., L=A, if you have one.

Does that console have MAStER authority?


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
John McKown 
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 7:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: direct z/OS operator command output to SYSLOG only?

I know that I can direct the output of a command, such as DISPLAY, to a
specific console using something like D A,L,L=consname . But is there a way
to direct it only to SYSLOG? I have a CA-OPS/MVS message rule which issues
a DISPLAY command. I had  to put a L=specific_console because I got the
following:

IGD007I COMMAND REJECTED 205
TARGET CONSOLE (DEFAULT IS MASTER CONSOLE) IS NOT ACTIVE

To add insult to injury, I cannot figure out which console is the MASTER
CONSOLE .  The command D C,L doesn't seem to tell me that. And all but 3
of my consoles show up as ACT-LIH1 where LIH1 is the sysname of my single
z/OS system.

This is on z/OS 1.12 (which  we are assured will die in about 6 months)

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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-19 Thread Seymour J Metz
STC.


--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2020 8:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

On Thu, 19 Nov 2020 11:04:32 +, Rupert Reynolds  wrote:
>
>//MYJOB  DD  SYSOUT=(A,INTRDR)
>looks like a. In fact I've used that from TSO, lthough I can't remember
>whether the ALLOC command hndles INTRDR, or whether I used SVC 99.
>
WRITER(INTRDR)

Likewise for BPXWDYN.

>If the job can justifiably be in something like SYS1.PROCLIB, it's even
>easier.
>S MYJOB :-)

Does that run it as a batch job or as a started task?

-- gil

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Re: How to get CEEDUMP with DFSORT?

2020-11-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
ESPIE only catches program checks, it doesn't catch ABENDs. A COBOL program can 
get an ABEND not related to a program check.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of Sri 
h Kolusu 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How to get CEEDUMP with DFSORT?

> Thank you, I had read this. I expect that doing this will return me
> to the CEEDUMP behavior I had the other sort product. I was hoping
> for an option where the DFSORT termination would continue on to the
> LE termination. That was my specific question. Will, or can I get the
CEEDUMP?

Dave,

Generally if you have an error in COBOL , then Language environment  SPIE
takes over and generates the CEEDUMP.  So if your shop has IBM-supplied
default  TRAP(ON,SPIE) , you would get CEEDUMP.

> I still think I am better off setting ESTAE=NO as a default. I would
> rather my programmers can fix the error from the first run, rather
> than needing another failing run with debug options.

If you intend to go with turning of ESTAE , then make sure that you only do
it for ICEAM2 environment so that only program invoked sorts have their
ESTAE disabled. Please do not turn it off for ICEAM1 environment.

Thanks,
Kolusu
DFSORT Development
IBM Corporation



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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
Obvious answer: because HASP is Half ASP. But you don't need a JES2  command; 
IBM provides a proc called RDR that copies its input to an internal reader.


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

Thanks. This will work. Kind of convoluted -- a $T A command to issue a $VS 
command to issue an S command to start an STC that submits a job, but hey, it's 
mainframe. If it was easy we wouldn't get the big bucks.

Idle musing: why doesn't JES2 have a command to submit a job, either from a 
named DSN or from a defined PROCLIB? Seems like an incredibly obvious feature. 
I spent 30 minutes in the commands manual going "I know it has to be in here 
somewhere."

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 3:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

We did something like that before we had CA-7 (actually Runtrack). We used
the $TA command to start a task which then submitted the actual JCL. The
started task JCL looked something like:

//OPER  PROC JOBLIB=PROD.JOBS.JCLLIB,MEMBER=NOTHING
//OPER EXEC PGM=IEBGENER
//SYSIN DD  DUMMY
//SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=Z PURGE CLASS
//SYSUT2 DD SYSOUT=(*,INTRDR)
//SYSUT1 DD DISP=SHR,DSN=()
//* END OF PROC

The $TA  would include the $VS command like: $VS,'S OPER,MEMBER=SOMEJOB'

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Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

2020-11-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
Subject to security constraints.  


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
David Spiegel 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2020 6:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is there a JES2 command to submit a job?

Hi Charles,
All of the previous responses did not address your situation.

Here is a solution that only old-timers like myself would think of:
S
RDR,DSN=mypds(mymember),UNIT=,VOL=,DCB=(RECFM=FB,LRECL=80,BLKSIZE=27920),DISP=SHR

RDR is available in SYs1.PROCLIB and has been since dinosaurs roamed the
earth.

Regards,
David

On 2020-11-18 18:00, Charles Mills wrote:
> Is there a JES2 command to submit a job from a PDS or PROCLIB, roughly
> analogous to TSO SUBMIT?
>
> I want to run a predefined job, unmodified, once a day. (No, I don't have a
> real scheduler.) I figured I could do something with $T A,I=86400,'command'
> but I don't see what the command would be. It seems like an obvious thing
> for JES2 to be able to do.
>
> Do I use $VS,'S proc' and run it like a started task that just happens to
> end after a minute or so?
>
> I vaguely recall there is a way to submit a job (via TSO or whatever) such
> that it gets held and then could be released with a JES2 command but also
> left in the input queue for another release? Am I on the right track? Or ...
> ?
>
> Thanks. Sorry for the newbie question. I'm a newbie operator.
>
> Charles
>
> --
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Re: [MVS-OE] [External] Re: [MVS-OE] Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" error

2020-11-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
Did you need the read bit on the entire path, or only the execute bit?


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Frank Swarbrick 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 4:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [MVS-OE] [External] Re: [MVS-OE] Other user trying to run my shell 
script gets "FSUM7351 not found" error

OK, issue resolved.  I not only had to set the read and execute bits on the 
program itself (curl), but also on the entire directory path.  Not sure what 
the difference is in regard to executing the program directly vs inside a 
script, but hey.


From: MVS OpenEdition  on behalf of Pommier, Rex 

Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 12:47 PM
To: mvs...@vm.marist.edu 
Subject: Re: [MVS-OE] [External] Re: [MVS-OE] Other user trying to run my shell 
script gets "FSUM7351 not found" error

Except Frank said the other user could run curl directly, just not if he was 
using Frank's script.

-Original Message-
From: MVS OpenEdition  On Behalf Of Kirk Wolf
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 1:10 PM
To: mvs...@vm.marist.edu
Subject: [External] Re: [MVS-OE] Other user trying to run my shell script gets 
"FSUM7351 not found" error

Perhaps the user doesn't have read/search/execute permissions to the full 
directory path of /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl  ?

Kirk Wolf
Dovetailed Technologies
http://secure-web.cisco.com/1lyBFXiveOds6XamK3ZgQmj8A7-ybpz8sz21wX2PPg7b0fQfZiVzOAq2aIdMQt2YtbZW3F9lFUYCwahSfc9lZA4FEjMRfIaLAZIyh3zjGSyeG5OMziI3LEmko0rELjoIMRGE-MnAy7zdVyShSCjTbphBNHy7qaHA3zDOloSe-CPHx3jiiMkbRWkTy3cxRxsBHN8oK2CUOeLKuBq_3IxW3umtjD7E16Vz35v3Hhhl2w68ihmgf6F_6F2FExu4nsrr46vy0S1bW3aygSIy85l1rTEy5U3YbJMsLPAOpReHzePb64_uuTeEuOmbitquoOOvi3n-7p7dpkQLeRhgiiVU9PldzauUpBNexw4c6eIRBAylqA7UGeebw5bo9yjVopq4u0rojPakPp1WGt7IJah0e-PhbnEZ1FOMY4oBKeLQxrJGt5tFfsoWJlRed6rHFV87K/http%3A%2F%2Fdovetail.com


On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 12:51 PM Frank Swarbrick < frank.swarbr...@outlook.com> 
wrote:

> Any thoughts on this?  I can execute this job and have no issue.  I'm
> trying to let another developer run it.  He's able to run
> /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl directly (in STDPARM, following "SH ".)  But
> if he executes my shell script (/u/dvfjs/jira_test) he gets
> "/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl: /u/dvfjs/jira_test 4: FSUM7351 not found".
>
> I've set the read and execution bits for user, group and other for
> both curl and the jira_test shell script.  Since the "echo" commands
> are working for him, he's obviously able to execute my shell script
> itself.  What else might I be missing?  The other developer has an
> OMVS segment, but he doesn't have an initial working directory or default 
> shell configured yet.
> Could that be the issue?  If so, what specifically is causing this
> particular issue?
>
> JCL:
> //DVRJZTST JOB ,'Test',CLASS=C,REGION=0M,NOTIFY=
> //*
> //UNIX EXEC PGM=BPXBATCH
> //STDOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
> //STDERR   DD SYSOUT=*
> //STDPARM  DD *
> SH /u/dvfjs/jira_test
> /*
>
> /u/dvfjs/jira_test:
> #!/bin/sh -x
>
> echo **before**
> /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl --help
> echo **after**
>
> File attributes:
> -sh|DVFJS:/u/dvfjs:>ls -FalTHp /u/dvfjs/jira_test
> - untaggedT=off -rwxr-xr-x     1 DVFJSDEPT9971  77 Nov 16
> 12:24 /u/dvfjs/jira_test
> -sh|DVFJS:/u/dvfjs:>ls -FalTHp /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl
> - untaggedT=off -rwxr-xr-x     1 DVFJSDEPT9971 21266432 Nov
> 1  2019 /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl
>
> STDERR:
> FSUM1012 The initial working directory was not specified.
> FSUM1006 A shell was not specified. Processing continues using the
> default shell name.
> + echo **before**
> + /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl --help
> /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl: /u/dvfjs/jira_test 4:
> + echo **after**
>
> STDOUT:
> **before**
> **after**
>
>
>
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Re: Reference for NIH or Mellon multi-access SPOOL?

2020-11-18 Thread Seymour J Metz
I don't know, but if anybody has copies of any of. e.g.,  the Share projects 
mods tapes, I urge you to make them known to the CBTtape and Hercules 
communities.

Thanks.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Clark Morris 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 9:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Reference for NIH or Mellon multi-access SPOOL?

[Default] On 17 Nov 2020 09:24:13 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
sme...@gmu.edu (Seymour J Metz) wrote:

>Can anybody point me to documentation on the provenance of the NIH (HASP II 
>V3) or Mellon (HASP II V4) mods for mult-access SPOOL? There are citation 
>needed tags in 
>https://secure-web.cisco.com/1NMdsAmWJzHy3OIMdnHW4RUIliT2f2Ks4pe2mlBWQdAHkqGZTmvFsTg7_A7SxM1xaGU_1upyTBi1nkh4eW_U-At6CaQe5I3WEMw_qlCmNW9Te4UlwQ5QwRlkgAg33f12NvoVSO4q9qfzUff6xHCiY4DSQDsaLiex7j_SAqGZExYoFXRa708oBfdAZ9GP4uxnTMQ21F6jmb3sRJu1YywOb7dHN1I36JK1Rbw2cE2ItJ0paUtldTpIYP6A4HSPWRRSY7FQTbi0d-tPOsI7jHqhHHJZ1UaYJ00ZLCoiKR1v35i1ORuR1VyAHLUqJciIu_bpwwlekkMYXoNam_znjpUfJdPT0q4SBK2g8zabFSxllkFLZ1hcFktTERtNFBuQkQynadr19YCHS88_L0jMH83LFCgUaowYFqyhMu3fW7lHsdHoAYCvwngqUK84mT8wV7-ej/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJob_Entry_Subsystem_2%2F3
> and I'd like to include some. Thanks.

Are cumulative JES2 mods tapes online? the MICHMODS MVT tapes of
varying vintages? These might have what you want as might contemporary
SHARE proceedings because they probably would have been subjects of
sessions.  The Mellon Bank mods may also be on early CBT tapes if they
predate MVS.

Clark Morris

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Reference for NIH or Mellon multi-access SPOOL?

2020-11-17 Thread Seymour J Metz
Can anybody point me to documentation on the provenance of the NIH (HASP II V3) 
or Mellon (HASP II V4) mods for mult-access SPOOL? There are citation needed 
tags in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_Entry_Subsystem_2/3 and I'd like to 
include some. Thanks.


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Re: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" error

2020-11-17 Thread Seymour J Metz
You're right. Ghosties and ghoulies and things that go bump n the night?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Frank Swarbrick 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 11:59 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" 
error

Why would PATH have any effect here, since I have the fully qualified path 
specified?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Seymour J Metz 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 6:22 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" 
error

That sounds like PATH is different in the two cases.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Frank Swarbrick 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 2:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" 
error

Any thoughts on this?  I can execute this job and have no issue.  I'm trying to 
let another developer run it.  He's able to run /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl 
directly (in STDPARM, following "SH ".)  But if he executes my shell script 
(/u/dvfjs/jira_test) he gets "/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl: /u/dvfjs/jira_test 4: 
FSUM7351 not found".

I've set the read and execution bits for user, group and other for both curl 
and the jira_test shell script.  Since the "echo" commands are working for him, 
he's obviously able to execute my shell script itself.  What else might I be 
missing?  The other developer has an OMVS segment, but he doesn't have an 
initial working directory or default shell configured yet.  Could that be the 
issue?  If so, what specifically is causing this particular issue?

JCL:
//DVRJZTST JOB ,'Test',CLASS=C,REGION=0M,NOTIFY=
//*
//UNIX EXEC PGM=BPXBATCH
//STDOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
//STDERR   DD SYSOUT=*
//STDPARM  DD *
SH /u/dvfjs/jira_test
/*

/u/dvfjs/jira_test:
#!/bin/sh -x

echo **before**
/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl --help
echo **after**

File attributes:
-sh|DVFJS:/u/dvfjs:>ls -FalTHp /u/dvfjs/jira_test
- untaggedT=off -rwxr-xr-x     1 DVFJSDEPT9971  77 Nov 16 12:24 
/u/dvfjs/jira_test
-sh|DVFJS:/u/dvfjs:>ls -FalTHp /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl
- untaggedT=off -rwxr-xr-x     1 DVFJSDEPT9971 21266432 Nov  1  
2019 /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl

STDERR:
FSUM1012 The initial working directory was not specified.
FSUM1006 A shell was not specified. Processing continues using the default 
shell name.
+ echo **before**
+ /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl --help
/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl: /u/dvfjs/jira_test 4:
+ echo **after**

STDOUT:
**before**
**after**



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Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

2020-11-17 Thread Seymour J Metz
ypo, that should be ISO-8859-15, Latin9.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 13:29:32 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>NFW; unless the documentation describes such bizarre behavior, it should *NOT* 
>translate characters to SUB when there is a correct translation. If you want 
>to preserve the length then use a character set in which all characters are 8 
>bits, e.g., ISO-8869=15.

"8869="?

Pedant!  I easily presumed "not in the target character set" as Charles's 
intent.


From:  Charles Mills
>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 4:14 PM

>If you tell FTP that the non-EBCDIC file is UTF-8 then FTP *should* convert
>accented characters and such to EBCDIC SUB (X'3F') rather than to two bytes.
>Should. YMMV.

I understand this to be common practice, as described in:

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CU1T9ZeyF6UHYCkeSdBDfGguunRASoBn4ZgLNTkuMZb59Yo5npGD_H2Pb6G5bijvF5VlGkp1sQk8zyGkV0uupjf4wRqqbivc76xIl5_nMR1p4lJotPuLYnFZzEiKj_QZKq-RH638h74A5UAOGONfx7qRmo5sC7LxMlqYQTvqyvKRBaaVSfyBuGqHwG0LIy3NJ_VpgJTVE4mvnsmHtHdHpV0JsgR26LmlhPskpvOnV_VR2pOpsUyhSxn1G7Yo2-NE78BL--lV-ejaElC25jvV66skTxjmFnz0M30_pGpYOEtC5uXHLr9GQksuagnLZEg3OJJbUo1Ht6_Ju7osBkrBLEvXwbrcqLZGvjqlSQcgIh9eFULW0RFdcDvOoYqiOrMklQdCW0qnAH5EkgOSODNDzkrqxCmJ0vvJrjN2ARIeKry6ECw5kYcS1k6rggdUCv64/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.asciihex.com%2Fcharacter%2Fcontrol%2F26%2F0x1A%2Fsub-substitute
(citation with better authority needed)
A substitute character (␚) is a control character. It is represented in the
place of a character that is identified to be invalid or incorrect, or in 
cases
when it can't be represented on a device used. Besides, it's used in the
role if an escape sequence in some programming languages.

(Let's not further discuss the CPM/DOS/Windows abuse of 0x1a (SUB).)

Alas, IBM too characteristically flaunts common practice:
SA23-2280-40  UNIX System Services Command Reference
iconv - Convert characters from one code set to another
-c  Characters containing conversion errors are not written to the output.
By default, characters not in the source character set are converted
to the value 0xff and written to the output.

Does "conversion errors" mean "invalid octet sequences" in the source
as well as characters valid in the source CCSID but having no equivalent
in the target charact set.  In the former case, how many 0xff are written?

(is "0xff" possibly a typo for "0x3f"?

Truly, if the target character set is ASCII-like the substitute character
should be 0x1a; if EBCDIC-like, 0x3f; if DBCS, ???, but not a single octet.


SC14-7314-40  XL C/C++ Runtime Library Reference
says:
iconv() — Code conversion
If a sequence of input bytes does not form a valid character in the
specified encoded character set, conversion stops after the previous
successfully converted character, and iconv() sets errno to EILSEQ.
...
If iconv() encounters a character in the input buffer that is valid, but
for which a conversion is not defined in the conversion descriptor, cd,
then iconv() performs a nonidentical conversion on this character.
The conversion is implementation-defined.

This document describes the z/OS implementation and should define
that conversion.

Do iconv and FTP both rely on that behavior?

I feel like a couple RCFs

-- gil











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Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

2020-11-17 Thread Seymour J Metz
Why would you presume that the character is not in the target character set? 
Certainly there are EBCIDIC character sets containing  accented letters, and 
there iare the issues of GE and SI/SO. In either direction encodings of 
characters can legitimately change length.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 10:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 13:29:32 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>NFW; unless the documentation describes such bizarre behavior, it should *NOT* 
>translate characters to SUB when there is a correct translation. If you want 
>to preserve the length then use a character set in which all characters are 8 
>bits, e.g., ISO-8869=15.

"8869="?

Pedant!  I easily presumed "not in the target character set" as Charles's 
intent.


From:  Charles Mills
>Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 4:14 PM

>If you tell FTP that the non-EBCDIC file is UTF-8 then FTP *should* convert
>accented characters and such to EBCDIC SUB (X'3F') rather than to two bytes.
>Should. YMMV.

I understand this to be common practice, as described in:

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1CU1T9ZeyF6UHYCkeSdBDfGguunRASoBn4ZgLNTkuMZb59Yo5npGD_H2Pb6G5bijvF5VlGkp1sQk8zyGkV0uupjf4wRqqbivc76xIl5_nMR1p4lJotPuLYnFZzEiKj_QZKq-RH638h74A5UAOGONfx7qRmo5sC7LxMlqYQTvqyvKRBaaVSfyBuGqHwG0LIy3NJ_VpgJTVE4mvnsmHtHdHpV0JsgR26LmlhPskpvOnV_VR2pOpsUyhSxn1G7Yo2-NE78BL--lV-ejaElC25jvV66skTxjmFnz0M30_pGpYOEtC5uXHLr9GQksuagnLZEg3OJJbUo1Ht6_Ju7osBkrBLEvXwbrcqLZGvjqlSQcgIh9eFULW0RFdcDvOoYqiOrMklQdCW0qnAH5EkgOSODNDzkrqxCmJ0vvJrjN2ARIeKry6ECw5kYcS1k6rggdUCv64/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.asciihex.com%2Fcharacter%2Fcontrol%2F26%2F0x1A%2Fsub-substitute
(citation with better authority needed)
A substitute character (␚) is a control character. It is represented in the
place of a character that is identified to be invalid or incorrect, or in 
cases
when it can't be represented on a device used. Besides, it's used in the
role if an escape sequence in some programming languages.

(Let's not further discuss the CPM/DOS/Windows abuse of 0x1a (SUB).)

Alas, IBM too characteristically flaunts common practice:
SA23-2280-40  UNIX System Services Command Reference
iconv - Convert characters from one code set to another
-c  Characters containing conversion errors are not written to the output.
By default, characters not in the source character set are converted
to the value 0xff and written to the output.

Does "conversion errors" mean "invalid octet sequences" in the source
as well as characters valid in the source CCSID but having no equivalent
in the target charact set.  In the former case, how many 0xff are written?

(is "0xff" possibly a typo for "0x3f"?

Truly, if the target character set is ASCII-like the substitute character
should be 0x1a; if EBCDIC-like, 0x3f; if DBCS, ???, but not a single octet.


SC14-7314-40  XL C/C++ Runtime Library Reference
says:
iconv() — Code conversion
If a sequence of input bytes does not form a valid character in the
specified encoded character set, conversion stops after the previous
successfully converted character, and iconv() sets errno to EILSEQ.
...
If iconv() encounters a character in the input buffer that is valid, but
for which a conversion is not defined in the conversion descriptor, cd,
then iconv() performs a nonidentical conversion on this character.
The conversion is implementation-defined.

This document describes the z/OS implementation and should define
that conversion.

Do iconv and FTP both rely on that behavior?

I feel like a couple RCFs

-- gil











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Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

2020-11-17 Thread Seymour J Metz
NFW; unless the documentation describes such bizarre behavior, it should *NOT* 
translate characters to SUB when there is a correct translation. If you want to 
preserve the length then use a character set in which all characters are 8 
bits, e.g., ISO-8869=15.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 4:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

If you tell FTP that the non-EBCDIC file is UTF-8 then FTP *should* convert
accented characters and such to EBCDIC SUB (X'3F') rather than to two bytes.
Should. YMMV.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Frank Swarbrick
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

The record is made up of multiple fixed-length fields.  I guess the field in
question technically didn't overflow.  But rather it "expanded" the field by
one byte, pushing every other field one byte to the right.  Likely the
program that creates the file is treating the "field length" as the number
of characters, rather than the number of bytes.  I've actually asked them to
create the file as ISO-8859-1 instead of UTF-8, and if they're willing/able
to do that then this entire discussion is moot.  But I wanted to have this
as a backup solution.


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: FTP converting between UTF-8 and EBCDIC

On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:26:12 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote:

>Yes, it "overflowed" a fixed-length field.  x'C3A1' in the source file was
treated as two separate "ASCII" characters, x'C3' and x'A1'.  Since those
don't exist in the EBCDIC code page I am using they just get converted to
two "nonsense" characters.
>
How wide is that field?  You must have been on the bitter edge of the limit.
What happens if a client enters an actual surname exceeding the limit?

>I agree that ideally the input source would restrict the input.  But since
that's on another team, and this workaround is likely "good enough", that's
probably unlikely to happen.
>
What was the workaround you chose, converting to which EBCDIC CCSID?
Is there no possibility of a client's entering a character not in that
CCSID?
What happens if someone does?  Can you fuzz test or would that intrude
"on another team"?

I'd expect you need to do some filtering, perhaps to preclude SQL injection
downstream.  But that might be achieved by encoding.

(I guessed wrong: "á", not  "â".  Spellcheck flags both.)

-- gil

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Re: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" error

2020-11-17 Thread Seymour J Metz
That sounds like PATH is different in the two cases.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Frank Swarbrick 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 2:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Other user trying to run my shell script gets "FSUM7351 not found" 
error

Any thoughts on this?  I can execute this job and have no issue.  I'm trying to 
let another developer run it.  He's able to run /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl 
directly (in STDPARM, following "SH ".)  But if he executes my shell script 
(/u/dvfjs/jira_test) he gets "/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl: /u/dvfjs/jira_test 4: 
FSUM7351 not found".

I've set the read and execution bits for user, group and other for both curl 
and the jira_test shell script.  Since the "echo" commands are working for him, 
he's obviously able to execute my shell script itself.  What else might I be 
missing?  The other developer has an OMVS segment, but he doesn't have an 
initial working directory or default shell configured yet.  Could that be the 
issue?  If so, what specifically is causing this particular issue?

JCL:
//DVRJZTST JOB ,'Test',CLASS=C,REGION=0M,NOTIFY=
//*
//UNIX EXEC PGM=BPXBATCH
//STDOUT   DD SYSOUT=*
//STDERR   DD SYSOUT=*
//STDPARM  DD *
SH /u/dvfjs/jira_test
/*

/u/dvfjs/jira_test:
#!/bin/sh -x

echo **before**
/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl --help
echo **after**

File attributes:
-sh|DVFJS:/u/dvfjs:>ls -FalTHp /u/dvfjs/jira_test
- untaggedT=off -rwxr-xr-x     1 DVFJSDEPT9971  77 Nov 16 12:24 
/u/dvfjs/jira_test
-sh|DVFJS:/u/dvfjs:>ls -FalTHp /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl
- untaggedT=off -rwxr-xr-x     1 DVFJSDEPT9971 21266432 Nov  1  
2019 /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl

STDERR:
FSUM1012 The initial working directory was not specified.
FSUM1006 A shell was not specified. Processing continues using the default 
shell name.
+ echo **before**
+ /u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl --help
/u/dvfjs/rocket/bin/curl: /u/dvfjs/jira_test 4:
+ echo **after**

STDOUT:
**before**
**after**



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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-16 Thread Seymour J Metz
That's still wrong:

http://bitsavers.org/pdf/ibm/7030/22-6530-2_7030RefMan.pdf#page=169


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Mike Schwab 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 4:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

Sorry.  First computer to use 8 bits per character.

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:09 AM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> > You have to remember that S/360 was the first 8 bit computer.
>
> What is the 7030, chopped liver?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> Mike Schwab 
> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2020 9:25 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?
>
> You have to remember that S/360 was the first 8 bit computer.  Prior
> computers used 4 bits for a digit and 6 bits for a character.  They
> designed EBCDIC to be easily converted for use with existing 7 track
> tape drives, printers, card and tape readers and punches.  There was a
> proposed ASCII code that was put on documentation but dropped for the
> 370 virtual memory bit in the PSW.
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 6:39 PM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
> >
> > I doubt that IBM custumers would have been happy with an 8-bit code page 
> > with only 128 valid code points. International considerations would still 
> > have forced IBM to device incompatible code pages for different countries.
> >
> > Obviously 8859 is another Tower of Babel; why do you think I described it 
> > as "a dollar short"?
> >
> > No,, IBM could not have implemented full Unicode, or even the full MLP, 
> > back in the 1960s. But it could certainly have implemented a basic subset 
> > for all customers and selected additional pages for international 
> > customers. Had Unicode and UTF-8 been around at the time, I'm certain that 
> > IBM would have gone that route.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> > Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2020 6:22 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?
> >
> > On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 23:00:00 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> >
> > >Because there was no standard 8-bit code at the time. IBM did push for an 
> > >8-bit ASCII,
> > >
> > That's not an obstacle.  DEC PDP-8 stored ASCII characters one per
> > 12-bit word.  IBM could have simply declared the top bit "reserved"
> > as they are so often wont to do.
> >
> > >but it never happened except for a mapping between octets and punch 
> > >combinations on cards. Had Unicode been around at the time they would 
> > >probably have jumped at it.
> > >
> > >ISO 8859 was a day late and a dollar short.
> > >
> > ISO-8859-* is afflicted with the same babel as EBCDIC code pages
> > because of the "*" you elided.
> >
> > UTF-8 is the norm nowadays because of a peculiar upward compatibility
> > with ASCII.  But the mebibytes and megahertz to support it came a day late.
> >
> > -- gil
> >
> > --
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>
>
> --
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
>
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--
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-16 Thread Seymour J Metz
> They only had 7 track tapes at the time.

Are you a betting man?


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Mike Schwab 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 5:28 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

They only had 7 track tapes at the time.

9 track tapes introduced with S/360 in 1964.
https://secure-web.cisco.com/15XvqSwTkb8sH4cs6M51pKSQPk3d5UMx0-OZWOJ-qVN-Xi3Em6QAF-WxBpwlIxb4H-MIL_lx-Sjm3-fYErj8-_wb3XmyqHn8YwVkyLcFpqfg5HOxgP-3u6TV5WZoS9eSBARFIPSwxXNPiVInLz7T7XfYMW8GF4xFUHfMkxEQqaugiyRJI2b-7ozMXS67SLYZdCL_GML_68jxRtZS8n1wpWPPi4_gJBf7UrHScZXtCb_mTD6A0KCSIXj79GLDoX1HfombbmMh1rWbORrUkfDCfuqb3oudoIDruIhlxDkbAP_-7tY49ZzJiT37K2xxiMe3hr2vjakbV8KMdSRC_vYHFs6DTqTkK9PhyVHfnweIZwHbdul1nV5ajaPlYlmIHw915zOZMUqtYPHHOw_GoTnqH6YimQOMHeC53GnS4KHEiXoelc3T9eAJL_QjV-RFTKdkI/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F9_track_tape

On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 3:36 PM Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:13:24 -0600, Mike Schwab wrote:
>
> >Sorry.  First computer to use 8 bits per character.
> >
> Wikipedia, not necessarily an authority, says:
> 
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1nkIhum4wox25jkI5iyrdaNhYiLZ-wEKIr3K4FJU0KBpoOtcfywPRSnP9jzVOX-9S8QZjIml46GxRNS1b2fKnylfTLqYAXUVsy4GHz8fzHXPRAKuVy0q0Q-ha8KLERcqzewzfdpjYIlNEbkZQ8xYjzgsF9vD3-o9FFmMk-ZeQsGyfATz-ct5fo02aXF-g0sn7_8Ax67Ftiy2kjGEiZk3yDaEs75vcK08soi_H9HBWYSZfMwEgNQ5Chi0qaI-OEaMOGvf-fNfsdgO7cGmxGOyIGst1qyQOoBzS9V1CrFsevh-h3fKH6xVuolZBz2I9ylh_gOKwSoCLhkRxeb_KPNJNUXkPHactrTwT2naYwfJdOoMoksJuj1NYmtSqNw74vRX0d7Z3Gsf0FyPEnz-J_EIEafTVDrXhAJrT7AnH2MdZC9iUY1BW9ldH5qyOiC-gCu7f/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIBM_7030_Stretch#Data_formats
> Alphanumeric characters are variable length and can use any character 
> code of 8 bits or less.
>
> ... so, if true, 8 bits was at least possible.  Was it widely in "use"?
>
> >On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 11:09 AM Seymour J Metz wrote:
> >>
> >> > You have to remember that S/360 was the first 8 bit computer.
> >>
> >> What is the 7030, chopped liver?
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-16 Thread Seymour J Metz
Faster than Atlas?


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Bernd Oppolzer 
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 5:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

Telefunken TR 4, designed 1958, first delivered in 1962. This predates
IBM/360
by at least 4 years. The fastest mainframe built in Europe at that time.
The internal code ("Zentralcode") was an 8-bit code using 256 characters.
Word structure, a word had 48 bits plus 2 tag bits (tagged architecture)
plus some parity bits, not seen by the programmer.
Mostly used with ALGOL; the TR 4 was "a Hardware implementation of ALGOL"
(quote from E.J. Dijkstra).
A word could hold up to six characters, but some later languages
(like Fortran) decided to store only 4 characters in one word,
to be more compatible with IBM Fortran.

Kind regards

Bernd


Am 15.11.2020 um 03:25 schrieb Mike Schwab:
> You have to remember that S/360 was the first 8 bit computer.  Prior
> computers used 4 bits for a digit and 6 bits for a character.  They
> designed EBCDIC to be easily converted for use with existing 7 track
> tape drives, printers, card and tape readers and punches.  There was a
> proposed ASCII code that was put on documentation but dropped for the
> 370 virtual memory bit in the PSW.
>

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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-16 Thread Seymour J Metz
Did you ask him what he though the various distribution tapes were?  On 7-track 
tape you really don't have much choice what to use.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2020 6:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 16:28:02 -0600, Mike Schwab  wrote:

>They only had 7 track tapes at the time.
>
>9 track tapes introduced with S/360 in 1964.
>https://secure-web.cisco.com/1g3kTcng6DKLa2wZpjswahVbue_vj3uf2QkkhXiKJmCVFfYS7CwPJCOtzLp6sJGh2jwDBJtf-fQIAfhpg9JoyFjr-NP3GJ49DpgasRSaveY70zBAeUcG96cx9DjCCN7RLPVCYV0a5iunz5SDfQn5nUBPwdAzgTbqxMX_OnnnrbUL7OE0eJTsPrbRH4BSajmMRuFZmnPF6bjm9LjWZhRPwPeokTh9c_ZgD83Nr3egz_aDsyHEFvR8fWZl1pcJuZD_eSGb4o_-LVqZnSkkL72wa2225iWLTRU_R7Lmg5vfQNsInxpKROCItW2KofD7KGBQqfEte6pHmt7jYDvsPEWDAgyA4uUlhNRJ6lYNNRE6AzdSfLrBhnJIaQa1NyExfHakIOcVdnTX_c-_bwT1zHcIr9fhzdLOUcUwlKyrq_rn8c2c-w42RxSz2qvekUt_uRHN0/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F9_track_tape
>
Which was no obstacle.  There were two modes of I/O to 7-track tapes:
TRTCH=T, which mapped each tape frame of 6 data bits
plus 1 parity to one 8-bit byte.
TRTCH=C, which mapped the 24 data bits of 4 tape frames to 3 bytes

I know; I successfully used the latter.  I had to argue with ops who tried
to tell me that I shouldn't use that; it would corrupt mu data.  It didn't.

-- gil

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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-16 Thread Seymour J Metz
No, the 7030 was bit addressable. 

At the time of the S/360 announcement I thought that the decision to have a 
Model T "any byte size you want as long as it's 8" was a bad one, and I still 
think so. I also didn't like the 4 bit storage key and the 24 bit address. I 
thought that general registers might have been a good idea if there were 32, 
but that a maximum of base+index registers of 15 was too small.

What blindsided me was that IBM never supported the ASCII bit .


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Timothy Sipples 
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 3:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

Mike Schwab wrote:
>You have to remember that S/360 was the first 8 bit computer.
>[]
>Sorry.  First computer to use 8 bits per character.

I see others have cited the IBM 7030 and Telefunken TR 4 as examples of
early computers that used (or at least were explicitly engineered to use)
8 bit character encoding. However, as far as I can tell both of those
machines were word addressable machines, and their word sizes were
different and much larger than their character sizes. Was there any
pre-System/360 example of a computer that stored characters in 8 bits
*and* offered 8 bit memory addressing? (Or 6 and 6, or 7 and 7?) For that
matter, are there any still extant digital computer processors that (only)
have word addressable memory and don't have 8 bit byte addressable memory?

History evidently judges that particular System/360 design decision as
wise or at least not unwise.

- - - - - - - - - -
Timothy Sipples
I.T. Architect Executive
Digital Asset & Other Industry Solutions
IBM Z & LinuxONE
- - - - - - - - - -
E-Mail: sipp...@sg.ibm.com

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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-15 Thread Seymour J Metz
> You have to remember that S/360 was the first 8 bit computer.  

What is the 7030, chopped liver?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Mike Schwab 
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2020 9:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

You have to remember that S/360 was the first 8 bit computer.  Prior
computers used 4 bits for a digit and 6 bits for a character.  They
designed EBCDIC to be easily converted for use with existing 7 track
tape drives, printers, card and tape readers and punches.  There was a
proposed ASCII code that was put on documentation but dropped for the
370 virtual memory bit in the PSW.

On Sat, Nov 14, 2020 at 6:39 PM Seymour J Metz  wrote:
>
> I doubt that IBM custumers would have been happy with an 8-bit code page with 
> only 128 valid code points. International considerations would still have 
> forced IBM to device incompatible code pages for different countries.
>
> Obviously 8859 is another Tower of Babel; why do you think I described it as 
> "a dollar short"?
>
> No,, IBM could not have implemented full Unicode, or even the full MLP, back 
> in the 1960s. But it could certainly have implemented a basic subset for all 
> customers and selected additional pages for international customers. Had 
> Unicode and UTF-8 been around at the time, I'm certain that IBM would have 
> gone that route.
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
> Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2020 6:22 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?
>
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 23:00:00 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>
> >Because there was no standard 8-bit code at the time. IBM did push for an 
> >8-bit ASCII,
> >
> That's not an obstacle.  DEC PDP-8 stored ASCII characters one per
> 12-bit word.  IBM could have simply declared the top bit "reserved"
> as they are so often wont to do.
>
> >but it never happened except for a mapping between octets and punch 
> >combinations on cards. Had Unicode been around at the time they would 
> >probably have jumped at it.
> >
> >ISO 8859 was a day late and a dollar short.
> >
> ISO-8859-* is afflicted with the same babel as EBCDIC code pages
> because of the "*" you elided.
>
> UTF-8 is the norm nowadays because of a peculiar upward compatibility
> with ASCII.  But the mebibytes and megahertz to support it came a day late.
>
> -- gil
>
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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-14 Thread Seymour J Metz
I doubt that IBM custumers would have been happy with an 8-bit code page with 
only 128 valid code points. International considerations would still have 
forced IBM to device incompatible code pages for different countries.

Obviously 8859 is another Tower of Babel; why do you think I described it as "a 
dollar short"?

No,, IBM could not have implemented full Unicode, or even the full MLP, back in 
the 1960s. But it could certainly have implemented a basic subset for all 
customers and selected additional pages for international customers. Had 
Unicode and UTF-8 been around at the time, I'm certain that IBM would have gone 
that route.


--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3



From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2020 6:22 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 23:00:00 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Because there was no standard 8-bit code at the time. IBM did push for an 
>8-bit ASCII,
>
That's not an obstacle.  DEC PDP-8 stored ASCII characters one per
12-bit word.  IBM could have simply declared the top bit "reserved"
as they are so often wont to do.

>but it never happened except for a mapping between octets and punch 
>combinations on cards. Had Unicode been around at the time they would probably 
>have jumped at it.
>
>ISO 8859 was a day late and a dollar short.
>
ISO-8859-* is afflicted with the same babel as EBCDIC code pages
because of the "*" you elided.

UTF-8 is the norm nowadays because of a peculiar upward compatibility
with ASCII.  But the mebibytes and megahertz to support it came a day late.

-- gil

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Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

2020-11-14 Thread Seymour J Metz
Because there was no standard 8-bit code at the time. IBM did push for an 8-bit 
ASCII, but it never happened except for a mapping between octets and punch 
combinations on cards. Had Unicode been around at the time they would probably 
have jumped at it.

ISO 8859 was a day late and a dollar short.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Improve OMVS cp performance?

On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 11:21:08 +1100, Andrew Rowley wrote:
>
>I admit I had never looked at the details of FILEDATA=RECORD. It appears
>that IBM has taken RFC 4506 and made a small change so their
>implementation is incompatible with anything that actually follows the RFC.
>
Is that:
RFC 4506   XDR: External Data Representation Standard   May 2006
???  Which section?

>Why would IBM do that? Implementing the RFC format seems reasonable.
>Implementing an incompatible variation, less so.
>
Because they can.  Why EBCDIC?

-- gil

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Re: XYplorer - EBCDIC to ASCII translation - CP500 or something better

2020-11-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
I'd be more interested if it ran on Linux and supported more code pages, both 
on the PC side and the z side.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Robert Prins [robert.ah.pr...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 4:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: XYplorer - EBCDIC to ASCII translation - CP500 or something better

For those who don't know, XYplorer 
<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1txRrbtV0XP8MVmIvKL2TUY5592xDPKZMFBUYtHrY1NjAL6OPzkcLrKzqsYh7tfhXb8DPElC1kc-8qcDwLs0A2ddjuRHZzEM2M97jg8xNTkpGf1ikLzFKt2p9lAeVoo1wiPRvoUEJ4wAFqqc6gb59CbSwZ-O9SfE2AKLhHqeSyE6mNqMS_lpd1qevgKCE5JpbPHFkq0s3sHi9KV3FHf1JXmr5PwO2C69UoJ5rizwToddojI7OzR0ueYCoDZ9za4NgU0X25wY3vyT5DpQ3SX3x_y1ppL6CADAGqYTHzfy-HIgP5umXNv88buWTBTye-XvPaOS6SJZZO6CXNHCR5YNxK5GI4Hfor4o2S-fT0C3VQUF5qubWr_5lnv4gMOblNWKZmJqucqObCuroJ-inyhXy1ODJjFuuguLWq2iUKJonllAySl51va73BfJjqwvHh6EL/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.xyplorer.com%2F>
 is a replacement
for Windows' Explorer, with rather a lot more functionality, and that's a huge
understatement. Like Tom Brennan's Vista TN3270, you can try it free for 30
days, the "Standard License Pro" costs USD 39.95, never expires, and gives free
upgrades (usually a few per week(!)) for a year, the "Lifetime License Pro"
costs USD 79.95, never expires, and gives free upgrades forever. Both can be
used on all of your computers.

OK, advertising out of the way, Donald Lessau the developer has added a tweak to
  the "Mouse-Down Blow-Up" feature (click and hold on the icon of a file, and
you'll see its contents) to auto-convert EBCDIC files. I asked for it (it's kind
of useful to have a quick look at XMIT files containing source, README, or
"$INDEX" like members) and he has hard-coded some defaults:

The conversion is hard-coded to IBM EBCDIC International (codepage 500)
and a record length of 80.
Affects Text Preview, Hover Box, Mouse Down Blow Up, Quick File View,
Floating Preview.

I suggested the LRECL=80, he himself went for CP 500. I've already suggested
that he "externalizes" the CP, but if he doesn't, is there a opinion on which
code-page might be more useful for "Joe Average".

For what it's worth, I suggested that the EBCDIC auto-detect is based on long
strings of the ASCII "@" character, the EBCDIC space.

Robert
--
Robert AH Prins
robert.ah.prins(a)gmail.com
The hitchhiking grandfather - 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1za9WpfYYLbRTrQO4iF4IFKN3NWjlZtqqefmChD3PECaWBRWNuNjn2R5uMiKTU5_X3XzzeFMtNOuWmKehQjfXoKUrq6gvtLvUF5WAWaZFexCdGNCj-ZCpNrUroAi7dAnMiVZHxQu7fexGkvSkPdFwpr0pOkEOy1Z6nF4b5PBGMl19STKu9wWApYxM0vdhRM5ujeJLhBzpC6xwrh7laVaM--muaVYt352sLPudXKl-Kzcy2d2jurYs7s43cCAJ17HlCwganWg79DM9C1W67MKp1aKog_kIXivIhpF5J5cm3dZmacQbCFwQxwfGe6NIvocen5Bg8PG_Cd9Mrln4Ps3lxeZfMCWZn9615XMrzoq45ez8-k1O02nIU4HrvGOdx-KQAO5NedNTQoZuV7SLjQL2c5Ob57rV1kiv3dhbv9yC9yZvk-IoJAoh3_oc_-E4cRGh/https%3A%2F%2Fprino.neocities.org%2F
Some REXX code for use on z/OS - 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1KldTsRMrrC8rMDgsL4poB_uPyMCVgGcle5qSJ7Y4Y9G0Fj92d19JHAtPV7SxNdaMFJMIYSNOJZsMm6eUOwethqwIIBhBMT6Y0FM8uoQ5Cp6fAYso55nHwGUFV2KZgy4792cvHN6-RZLn-0vaXog8fXzivUn5CmYoJ2fHOoYtH3DallD8PcwB10E_fJjR_uFu1ktCCcH2vJKOk7RcgKnKaTtweqo_yAyYVlPAl4FaWk4GIiUrwReXrotUznL8jz2gda5eZVdR8frp5VNCa1NNnUI2dFd-g-BCwrVuVqi82rKaty78nuJS-4Z9N6ryKO9TAPKoE7aUVlTr-Kt9goBRD4RxNMpK2vbLlv5Zj2kYkjeozTYK6iZ53sSieQft5CG34K5oxcBpjW-92lpBtRjLy4QecP1y_WzIKb9FSAbnbUEe2SIBtvYkcivdbmd43V8D/https%3A%2F%2Fprino.neocities.org%2FzOS%2FzOS-Tools.html

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Re: Have I misunderstood TOD clock & leap seconds?

2020-11-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
OS/VS2 is before sysplex, and doesn't have support for an ETR; the operator 
sets the TOD clock, and it increments without any steering. That remained true 
with MVS/SE, MVS/XA and every flavor of MVS/ESA before sysplex.


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From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Rupert Reynolds [rreyno...@cix.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 9:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Have I misunderstood TOD clock & leap seconds?

Thanks Paul Gilmartin, you've reminded me to get GCC try on this museum
piece. And maybe PL/1, for old times :-)

And thanks to all for the advice.

If I read the replies right, z/OS does what I expected--keeps track of how
many leap seconds are included in the TOD clock, so that short intervals
measured across the leap second are right, but it can still be converted
into date by subtracting the extra seconds.

But MVS 3.8 (I checked SYS1.AMODGEN(CVT) ) doesn't have any reference to
leap seconds i can see. I suppose it was up to ops to adjust the time, and
TOD intervals would be out by a second across the leap second, but it makes
TOD time a bit easier to convert.

Hercules (as installed with defaults from TK4-) follows the Win64 host
clock trustingly. I IPL'd in 2019, saved my work, wound the clock forward
to the evening of Feb 28th 2020, and all the TSO sessions timed out in the
blink of an eye :-)

Interestingly perhaps, this version of MVS returns the century from TIME
DEC in x'0cyydddF', so I only have to add 1900 for . But there is no
STCKCONV, and the instruction set of a 3033 is a bit limiting :-)

Roops


On Thu., Nov. 12, 2020, 10:47 Paul Gilmartin, <
000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 16:13:41 +1100, Attila Fogarasi  wrote:
>
> >Hercules emulates the TOD clock, so what you see is Hercules behaviour and
> >not the real hardware behaviour for any particular machine type.
> >
> Yes.  And I suspect H merely naively converts the Linux(?) system clock
> to TOD format (add 1970 years; etc.)
> >
> >On Thu, Nov 12, 2020 at 2:13 PM Rupert Reynolds  wrote:
> >
> >> I did look for IBM docs online, but I haven't found anything very
> helpful.
> >>
> You have probably read "TOD Programmable Register" in recent PoOp.
>
> >> I read of someone using STCK and converting (the hard way!) to display
> >> time, instead of using TIME DEC. So I tried it on my Hercules/MVS 3.8
> >> setup.
> >>
> Officially, z/OS keeps a leap second count in CVTLSO and *subtracts* that
> from TOD to get UTC and adds CVTLDTO to get local time.  What value
> do you see for CVTLSO/4096/100?  (Oops!  Does 3.8 have a CVTLSO?)
>
> At an ordinary leap second z/OS adds 1 second to CVTLSO (there has never
> been a negative leap second.)
> 
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1jsiHGlspR01GS4FBOdZyArkCtmOQkgjhWblnd0CZSUbptOzlTijBnZXQaWfF2RRKnLKYSQdVJNpVCvnVKHA1cfFX4mVq2TEVBJhYTkcAD9HHxYXMTbD-3ZhnuE82dqy1DCcgFUy1qiwyHKQ4e7ZCvWFVvL-GgQNQWREupO9p0Epve9PhqqCkCqVSd-S6ryaBZhFAZiIVAfu-DVSRye3RdKnlShAhfB__zF0Oq2AAaFabo_y0qHv3EcIAr876bvZ36LyYz3GbFBkRrPDEMw7BdK_kmefTLOEeTYlhAES98gAkN3aNBQed9FKIJGHl59923KJhwCO3GAWCOoeUrThQx_x-zxXbEC1WXffsE7Y3ddbetYcXDSKH18SQA00FBkmsxOMfU0ew5krez1dAEDjf57ilUY-gfYoReDJ5qPEVxiUKqBPlQXl6Lbrne0D8sSDn/https%3A%2F%2Fhpiers.obspm.fr%2Fiers%2Fbul%2Fbulc%2Fbulletinc.dat
> 
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1o7UnCDHKCzi4165kWWs5LAw990Ghbf7QUVqADjbz6iqdrv9K2oYqbKEeW9eY8ftthYd_4a-eOqu24IAkZP9mm9ZhKbfQu0n6Zxrzj4n0z8pTGIZf1L3tU-rD9j-FlBG7hb4FWIAKjjT8N_AK16KLCB__QKD2-reaX68TD2Mtg5vijZCeBdZY8qvspxune0ivNVoUA1QvWUgfWuxH4Vbtpbjwkkuxfn7YzFq_QMmd6mYjZyvumvh_6ca3uQPAUrfXn4RUS_iLUMG7J33S-RnPyn1CRWt7pD_UVCdjGr9urUMYl8rhUcaSmrcDK_OQ2KgmDUhMHFNb5RJYzIVxiwLWWzcfhJynLUCZre9nrjoqIraDMv3B-HIv4jGvLwMxD09zcwyMcknyPRWt0yz0X3QsrnoUXcj6n8W8bS2kt8HnK2QLuKGu4FnaqJL0p2HpMhvo/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iana.org%2Ftime-zones
>
> During that leap second z/OS makes user processes nondispatchable so
> callers
> of TIME do not see anachronistic results.  No z/OS internals expert has
> ever
> come forth in this forum to explain how TIME accounts for the minuscule
> timing window that CVTLSO/CVTLDTO might be accessed and STCK performed
> on opposite sides of a leap second or DST boundary.
>
> Years ago, our site encountered two software products (both from IBM, IIRC)
> that had different notions of whether to apply CVTLSO, resulting in several
> seconds' inconsistency in SMF data.  We turned off leap seconds; set
> CVTLSO=0 and stayed that way ever after.
>
> I'll attempt to attach a C program that displays TAI rather than UTC.
>
> -- gil
> /* ** */
> /* Doc: Display TAI.
>BUGS: Requi

Re: Can a non-admin restrict others from viewing one of their own MVS data sets?

2020-11-12 Thread Seymour J Metz
There's nothing special about TSO; HLQ=userid is handled the same way in batch, 
STC and TSO.


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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
R.S. [r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl]
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2020 5:05 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Can a non-admin restrict others from viewing one of their own MVS 
data sets?

W dniu 06.11.2020 o 22:43, Frank Swarbrick pisze:
> In the Unix world one can use chmod (change mode) on their own files to make 
> it so non-superusers cannot view a particular file.  Is there anything 
> similar for MVS data sets?

Few points:
1. In MVS world there is no concept of file ownership like in Unix.
2. For TSO users HLQ=userID is special case, but it is rather "ALTER by
default", which is hard to restrict and it has very little to do with
authorities management.
2.1 Such datasets are called "his own" despite there is no ownership
concept.
2.2 Note, special treatment is not for every RACF user, it is for TSO
users only. So, for example ftp and many other methods are excluded
(assuming the user has no TSO segment).
3. Every TSO user may or may NOT have rights to manage dataset
authorities, his own (HLQ=userid) OR OTHER DATASETS.
4. Details depend on your setup. Usually "his own" datasets are in scope
of the user (userid is the owner of userid.** profile) and that is
enough to manage access list and UACC.
5. However admin may restrict RACF commands like AD, ALDSD nad PE and
then user cannot use them to manage rights. There are other methods also.

HTH

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland





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Re: IPCS - DAE gets RC -71

2020-11-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
"Ensure that the active IKJTSOxx parmlib member includes the program name 
ADYOPCMD in the AUTHCMD NAMES section. "


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Giannelli [billgianne...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 3:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IPCS - DAE gets RC -71

how do I tell that?

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Re: JES2 message $HASP375 Estimate exceeded

2020-11-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
It's a SMOP: 
http://afpcinc.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/PTOCA-Reference-Presentation-Text-Object-Content-Architecture-Reference.pdf

It's probably more trouble than it's worth unless there is an existing program 
to do it. The same is true of PDF.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Edward Finnell [000248cce9f3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 4:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 message $HASP375 Estimate exceeded

AFP is a control stream to the printer starting with x'5a' in column 1. All the 
rest is text andsearchable.

Is AFP searchable?




-Original Message-
From: Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Sent: Wed, Nov 11, 2020 7:54 am
Subject: Re: JES2 message $HASP375 Estimate exceeded

On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:01:44 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Graphic SPOOL files should be in the format expected by the output device or 
>driver.  Try sending PDF to a PCL only printer nand see what happens.
>
I haven't a PCL printer to try.  I expect it to work fine if the PCL printer
driver is PDF-savvy.

Even as AFP works if the writer for the PCL printer writer is AFP-savvy.

And PDF is more commonly supported than AFP.  IBM distributes the z/OS
doc as PDF, not AFP.

Is AFP searchable?

>
>From: Paul Gilmartin
>Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 1:23 PM
>    ...
>Ideally for portability, graphic spool files should be in a common format
>such as PDF (MacOS appear to do that), ...

-- gil

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Re: IPCS - DAE gets RC -71

2020-11-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
But is it in the TSO authorized commands table?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Giannelli [billgianne...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 3:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IPCS - DAE gets RC -71

yes, its in SYS1.LINKLIB.
Bill

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Re: IPCS - DAE gets RC -71

2020-11-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
Is ADYOPCMD authorized?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Giannelli [billgianne...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 2:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IPCS - DAE gets RC -71

When I try to turn off dump suppression in IPCS / DAE I get the following:
586 *-*Address TSO "ADYOPCMD 1"  /* Stop DAE @01A*/
+++ RC(-71) +++

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Re: JES2 message $HASP375 Estimate exceeded

2020-11-11 Thread Seymour J Metz
Which part of "only" don't you understand?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2020 8:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 message $HASP375 Estimate exceeded

On Tue, 10 Nov 2020 19:01:44 +0000, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>Graphic SPOOL files should be in the format expected by the output device or 
>driver.  Try sending PDF to a PCL only printer nand see what happens.
>
I haven't a PCL printer to try.  I expect it to work fine if the PCL printer
driver is PDF-savvy.

Even as AFP works if the writer for the PCL printer writer is AFP-savvy.

And PDF is more commonly supported than AFP.  IBM distributes the z/OS
doc as PDF, not AFP.

Is AFP searchable?

>
>From: Paul Gilmartin
>Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 1:23 PM
>...
>Ideally for portability, graphic spool files should be in a common format
>such as PDF (MacOS appear to do that), ...

-- gil

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Re: JES2 message $HASP375 Estimate exceeded

2020-11-10 Thread Seymour J Metz
Graphic SPOOL files should be in the format expected by the output device or 
driver.  Try sending PDF to a PCL only printer nand see what happens.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2020 1:23 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 message $HASP375 Estimate exceeded

On Mon, 9 Nov 2020 19:04:46 +, Mark Jacobs wrote:

>Look at your jes2parm for what the limits are set at. I've seen messages for 
>lines exceeded and later KBYTES in the same job log once that limit was 
>reached. I assume that pages are specifically meant for fully composed AFP 
>data and lines for line mode data.
>
What happens if a program writes millions of lines print-nospace to a
composed AFP data spool file?  Might that generate tens of megabytes,
exceeding the KBYTES limit with PAGES 1?

How does an AFP data spool file appear viewed with SDSF?  Does it matter
if the terminal has graphic capability?

I might expect desktop AFP viewers, most likely for Windows.

Ideally for portability, graphic spool files should be in a common format
such as PDF (MacOS appear to do that), PostScript, SVG, ...

>‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>On Monday, November 9th, 2020 at 1:55 PM, Jesse 1 Robinson 
> wrote:
>
>> We've had some cases of a job taking over the spool. In researching a 
>> solution, we've noticed that message $HASP375 varies in ways we don't 
>> understand. Doc for the message looks like this:
>>
>> > --jobname--ESTIMATE EXCEEDED BY--nnn--+-LINES--+--->
>>
>>+-CARDS--+
>>+-KBYTES-+
>>'-PAGES--'

-- gil

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Re: Can a non-admin restrict others from viewing one of their own MVS data sets?

2020-11-07 Thread Seymour J Metz
Password?  (Checks calendar - 2020). Is anybody still using dataset passwords?


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 5:31 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Can a non-admin restrict others from viewing one of their own MVS 
data sets?

On Fri, 6 Nov 2020 14:58:13 -0700, Lizette Koehler wrote:

>If you own the dataset and RACF Admins permit it,
>
What does "own" mean to MVS?  I believe from the beginning it
meant,  "The sysop consents to enter your data set password
when prompted."

>You should be able to alter your Datasets in MVS using the RACF Commands or 
>Panels.
>
>Will not work if you are not the owner of the file.
>
>For Example I own all datasets that begin with my TSO ID.  I do not own SYS1 
>datasets.
>
>SO it just depends


>-Original Message-
>From: Frank Swarbrick
>Sent: Friday, November 6, 2020 2:43 PM
>
>In the Unix world one can use chmod (change mode) on their own files to make
>it so non-superusers cannot view a particular file.  Is there anything
>similar for MVS data sets?

-- gil

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Re: Gwyn's Maxim (was: FSUM7197 pax ...)

2020-11-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
IBM fixed IEBGENER to not clobber the SYSUT2 directory. Changing the behavior 
of OPEN would have broken a lot of code.

The decision that file globbing should be in the shell makes it much more 
fragile than it would otherwise have been. I prefer the TSO approach of proving 
services and letting the command invoke, e.g., IKJPARSE with parameters 
describing what input is valid.


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Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 6:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Gwyn's Maxim (was: FSUM7197 pax ...)

> Probably there's a "dusty deck" somewhere whose inexcusably clever
> author relied on the behavior

Well, you can certainly see some JCL somewhere where there is for example

// SET DSN1=SOME.PDS(FOO)

And there are a bunch of references to DSN=, most of which really "want" 
the member qualification, but one of which is a DISP=(OLD,DELETE) that is in 
fact working as the coder intended. If I had coded that I don't think I would 
consider it inexcusably clever.

IIRC they did fix another trap for the unwary. A program opens DD1 as an output 
SAM dataset. Someone executes the program and codes //DD1 DD DSN=SOME.PDS, when 
what they really meant was SOME.PDS(FOO). IIRC back in the good old days MVS 
would overwrite the directory of SOME.PDS, with the obvious negative 
consequences. I think they fixed that and the described scenario now fails. I 
will leave testing it as an exercise for the reader.

> Shell doesn't know what's a file and what's a switch.

Well, if it is expanding pax * to pax file file file file could it not 
recognize that one such file looked a heck of a lot like a switch?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Gwyn's Maxim (was: FSUM7197 pax ...)

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1kA1nzS5bWbEveUQu96rFIxSd-w35tunHkOaalpolTZTe2jBLFVW0vP7ZSrQnnGIPgpSe3Vpiv3vsfh6sedWX9btx5QaEIrGhx-I3TYvh8O5--QIceF1_5Lh9ebdxX22YlACn5vu2Y_sePOvVjgOJg6I3kiY798_Uz_ic0IB2su6__oEc3fBsnVGbBlJGncN4VIphgY8-Hcpx6kvbsJDT7Kg-QPwF8Rt-F5zG1Eh3mFxiXV_ECxxdNt3YJQJ572-x_QQfUvKh-KUwl4VzKMKk3JKeUDrpyI5czZzEnCZl_AEGrNXTNpe7J4pt-cEo-ObAjs9t1Jgax9aqK1C4eOtfClC9SKiWl19riXAjKlT3fRgTTBMCGKUcK3MPIXT-9UtyTBfvasrhhCINL0Gnc_WCKnuHnpYMOMMig83J1pN7iE0NeEq5dx28VJSRIk6E8kCh/https%3A%2F%2Fopensource.com%2Fbusiness%2F14%2F12%2Flinux-philosophy

On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 06:46:15 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>What the heck were the UNIX designers thinking when they allowed the casual 
>creation of a filename of -x? There may be a legitimate reason why someone 
>would want to create a file named -x but if so, then *they* should be made to 
>jump through some small hoop and "escape" the name in some way. The innocent 
>victim who stumbles into this situation should not be the one made to jump 
>through hoops. Will UNIX allow the creation of a file named "rm *"? That could 
>have some interesting side effects.
>
Even worse, a file named "-rf *".

This resembles the plaint of a JCL novice who has just encountered, painfully,
the astonishing behavior of:
//SYSUT1 DD DSN=(MEMBER),DISP=(OLD,DELETE)

That should be fixed for DYNALLOC, JCL, TSO, globally by making the
TU for member mutex with the TU for delete.  Who volunteers to bell
the RFE cat?

Probably there's a "dusty deck" somewhere whose inexcusably clever
author relied on the behavior and whose heirs haven't access to the
source.

>How did I inadvertently create a file named -x? I had a pax command
>
>pax -wzvf /my/archive.pax *
>
>I had an error that I thought might be solved by -x os390. Looking at the 
>above command I forgot that /my/archive.pax "went with" the -f and coded
>
>pax -wzvf -x os390 /my/archive.pax *
>...
>Heck, if the shell is going to expand the * then it could generate a warning 
>"hey, did you know that one of your files has a name that looks just like a 
>switch?"
>
Shell doesn't know what's a file and what's a switch.  That's the
responsibility of the utility, even as JCL shouldn't know what PARM means:
 //STEP  EXEC  PGM=BPXBATCH,PARM='sudo rm -rf /'

-- gil

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Re: Gwyn's Maxim (was: FSUM7197 pax ...)

2020-11-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
"When the only tool you have is a pipe, everything looks like a filter."


--
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http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 3:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Gwyn's Maxim (was: FSUM7197 pax ...)

https://secure-web.cisco.com/1A7riZAPpr7boeK8ALMZCZTcsWrAD-ueyShFiA0hGSb0JnXAB9iXit1YkpYeISqRcMkVid4NR0HzMd_kBWzPx2KH9Yox8M1rB0s3QuED6mXI_nXCeF9vkG6TE2i3TzaPjgoX1Agsr613PPvZr-vZNu64QzEOC8OfkrTBUkN_jdqrLS-KIkF8E8deFrT-ThadFUD-Xj-sYa4i_AJOZ9wLAbO-ta5AA8TQO0Cp_v8FnfQ0RayCU8b5rIYCBniyHGkj4l188oyX_cSAGJf2UUEmsmO6lzD_QlKgc3Q60vQaBG11euFAtWhpN76k074Pwm9ZBjuP5QJ_Kk3UpURu1B6pbGw-deceq7EmXEiJIrOtnSQH_Gj_O8ixdhCo2MxYd5Qtm3J7uBgMTNObxNxCds-ecj-cjG27DUCfiRLQoQ7UYUnnoTXk7gjGXHubqPZulogpQ/https%3A%2F%2Fopensource.com%2Fbusiness%2F14%2F12%2Flinux-philosophy

On Thu, 5 Nov 2020 06:46:15 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>What the heck were the UNIX designers thinking when they allowed the casual 
>creation of a filename of -x? There may be a legitimate reason why someone 
>would want to create a file named -x but if so, then *they* should be made to 
>jump through some small hoop and "escape" the name in some way. The innocent 
>victim who stumbles into this situation should not be the one made to jump 
>through hoops. Will UNIX allow the creation of a file named "rm *"? That could 
>have some interesting side effects.
>
Even worse, a file named "-rf *".

This resembles the plaint of a JCL novice who has just encountered, painfully,
the astonishing behavior of:
//SYSUT1 DD DSN=(MEMBER),DISP=(OLD,DELETE)

That should be fixed for DYNALLOC, JCL, TSO, globally by making the
TU for member mutex with the TU for delete.  Who volunteers to bell
the RFE cat?

Probably there's a "dusty deck" somewhere whose inexcusably clever
author relied on the behavior and whose heirs haven't access to the
source.

>How did I inadvertently create a file named -x? I had a pax command
>
>pax -wzvf /my/archive.pax *
>
>I had an error that I thought might be solved by -x os390. Looking at the 
>above command I forgot that /my/archive.pax "went with" the -f and coded
>
>pax -wzvf -x os390 /my/archive.pax *
>...
>Heck, if the shell is going to expand the * then it could generate a warning 
>"hey, did you know that one of your files has a name that looks just like a 
>switch?"
>
Shell doesn't know what's a file and what's a switch.  That's the
responsibility of the utility, even as JCL shouldn't know what PARM means:
 //STEP  EXEC  PGM=BPXBATCH,PARM='sudo rm -rf /'

-- gil

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Re: FSUM7197 pax: invalid archive format selected

2020-11-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
Eunix was designed for a PDP-7, and we are suffering from some of the design 
decisions made then. But the myth of windows being user friendly is just a 
myth; the reality is quite different. So, yes, z/OS suffers from some really 
bad decisions made decades ago, but so do the other systems. The prevalence of 
windows has as much to do with the monopolistic practices of ms as with 
anything else.

BTW, to what extent has z/VSE overcome the ghastly syntax of DOS JCL?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Charles Mills [charl...@mcn.org]
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FSUM7197 pax: invalid archive format selected

It's fine that UNIX is designed for professionals but (a.) some of us are 
professionals at many things but have to use UNIX only occasionally; and (b.) 
no one is born a professional. If you make it hard for folks to get started as 
non-professionals, then they will gravitate elsewhere and become professionals 
there. That may be why Windows is a lot more common choice for desktops than is 
UNIX. (And why z/OS is not exactly storming the marketplace. Your COND= plaint 
is of course legendary.) Good software design would be newbie-friendly by 
default, and accommodating of professionals if one so chose.

The link is amusing. Thanks. I don't hate UNIX. I am not a computer religious 
zealot. People pay me to use computers, and I enjoy doing so for the most part, 
so I do. This feature of UNIX wasted an hour of my client's time. And some of 
your time and Gil's. And others who read the post, shook their heads, and moved 
on.

> IBM really goofed up by not using the GNU libraries

IBM does not share their thinking with me but I suspect they wanted "real" 
UNIX, and GNU is of course ... Not UNIX.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 9:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: FSUM7197 pax: invalid archive format selected

Caution -- tacky in-line comment.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 8:46 AM Charles Mills  wrote:

> What the heck were the UNIX designers thinking when they allowed the
> casual creation of a filename of -x?


They were thinking that UNIX is for professionals who know what they're
doing and didn't want to be "molly coddled" and protected from themselves.
That's for Windows users. And, really, this is more an artifact of the
Bourne shell, not the UNIX kernel. In fact, UNIX allows a file to have any
characters in it other than 0x00. Mainly because it is written in C. That's
freedom, which requires responsibility.

Well, actually, UNIX probably allowed it because it was developed, I think,
on a PDP-7 which was very memory constrained and so they didn't do a whole
lot of coding to validate "reasonableness".

You might enjoy this: 
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1-dM3BmUBAUH2sYYhQ2RsAvGkVtVKvvlmn3hdBcYfcSknMrTzVTPbBJFXPAESy6rTdpzcZacofe__Dg3GxMaZHSw_of1qimWxUcoewgghJarztW2FVxbiAdANmeTIfBI7nluNfkbyqgBMm5IamPVQQPiWFvvzDFDZHlurgt0gilfOoKRJdzjYkCtuej7AS_bid4n8H4E8jC4NV8RhuSBJze3KrS3qtoQqb1Lc8t1ZVyRSSBmB15KX5cdZ2TUKLeI78r-BWaEkfZWky7Sg7-yeQvjbW2YzZ9yDHOam26YNo8CIOVFPGeJgshgrw8XDVpZH2JmROkcuQBbWS4n9HSp-AQIQe2B3p3AywEmsrVL4dAmIeTQ_9oEj_p-v4ozuWJPILEiqw3BefiNi_i251bOEFFBBoo5NDhy5I5DlvHNGuG0ybZO8TwBBl_7mSxLIR2jQ/https%3A%2F%2Fweb.mit.edu%2F%7Esimsong%2Fwww%2Fugh.pdf
 The UNIX
Haters Handbook.



> There may be a legitimate reason why someone would want to create a file
> named -x but if so, then *they* should be made to jump through some small
> hoop and "escape" the name in some way. The innocent victim who stumbles
> into this situation should not be the one made to jump through hoops. Will
> UNIX allow the creation of a file named "rm *"? That could have some
> interesting side effects.
>

Simple to do that:

touch  'rm *'

More  "difficult"

touch rm\ \*


>
> How did I inadvertently create a file named -x? I had a pax command
>
> pax -wzvf /my/archive.pax *
>
> I had an error that I thought might be solved by -x os390. Looking at the
> above command I forgot that /my/archive.pax "went with" the -f and coded
>
> pax -wzvf -x os390 /my/archive.pax *
>
> That has the effect of creating an archive named -x. UNIX did not complain
> or warn about that at all. (It complained about some unnamed file not being
> found, presumably os390.) That is poor design IMHO.
>

Perhaps. But, then again, WAD. Or perhaps BAD. But the command did exactly
what it was documented to do. Might as well complain, as I have, about the
backwardness of COND= in JCL. I now only use // IF  and it's friends for
condition checking.



>
> Heck, if the shell is going t

Re: Documentation for environment of EXCP appendages

2020-11-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
That was the first place I looked. It mentions key 0 and supervisor mode, but 
no more.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mike Myers [m...@mentor-services.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 3:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Documentation for environment of EXCP appendages

Seymour:

I found there is documentation online. I searched for: IBM z/OS EXCP
appendage and came back with a hit:

EXCP and EXCPVR Appendages
in
z/OS DFSMSdfp Advanced Services

It has been several years, but I have explored use of the appendages
dating back to OS/360, where I used to teach the internals of ISAM and
BDAM to PSRs. The neatest use was PCI, where the interrupt coming from a
specific CCW in a channel program notified the appendage of the point
where the channel program was executing and the appendage could make
changes to the channel program in response. In general, the appendage
could choose to let the channel program end or could add more CCWs to
the channel program to continue the I/O operation in response to new
information obtained in data read or in response to new related requests
from system activity.

The main usage was "self modifying channel programs" as in ISAM and BDAM
and in "seldom ending channel programs" more recently in ASM, where a
channel program already running and performing paging I/O could add new
page I/O to the running channel program as more page in or page out
requests occurred.

Mike Myers


On 11/4/20 10:52 PM, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> I'm editing the wiki article on EXCP, and I'd like to correct what it says 
> about appendages. I couldn't find any documentation on the environment in 
> which appendages run, although I'm fairly certain that it's PASN, SRB and all 
> the usual suspects. Wiki politics being what they are, it's a lot easier if I 
> provide a citation for everything.
>
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: JES2 Policies

2020-11-05 Thread Seymour J Metz
Part of real need is complying with lawful management edicts, even when they 
are not wise. You have an obligation to point out the problems, but if 
management wants to do it regardless, then you must shut up and code.

Of course, in that situation it is prudent to retain an audit trail showing 
that you did object.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
R.S. [r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl]
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 7:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Policies

Joe,
This is not my call (honestly I don't know this idiom). This is not my
dog, this is not my business.
I can leave it with no answer, but my willing is to help.
And part of the help is not to just code the exit, but discuss about
solution.

And I'm pretty sure no business department is interested in ACCNT field
and its content. Believe me or not: IT is a tool to achieve business
goal, but the details, guts, fields, commas are NOT in the scope of
business focus. They want working application, it is up to IT how to do
it. Changing ACCNT or classes are not strategic.
BTW: Gadi's further explanation sched more light on that.
That's why I proposed solution for real need.  Not just abstract
excercise to solve.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 05.11.2020 o 13:05, Joe Monk pisze:
> "However I think it not valid
> requirement, there is no business need behind it."
>
> Thats not your call to make. They are entitled to run their business how
> they see fit.
>
> Joe
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 5:53 AM R.S.  wrote:
>
>> W dniu 04.11.2020 o 19:50, Lizette Koehler pisze:
>>> Can RACF see the account code and make a decision?
>> Obviously not. RACF is also unable to see submitters trousers, check how
>> many days left to nearest holiday, etc.
>>
>>> That is what (as I understand it) the initial requirement is.
>> Yes, that requirement was presented to us. However I think it not valid
>> requirement, there is no business need behind it.
>> It is more complex: some reasonable business need led to use accnt. And
>> this is worth to discuss IMHO. Or just go back to business need and
>> discuss how to satisfy it. To avoid Rube Goldberg machinery.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Radoslaw Skorupka
>> Lodz, Poland



==

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Documentation for environment of EXCP appendages

2020-11-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
I'm editing the wiki article on EXCP, and I'd like to correct what it says 
about appendages. I couldn't find any documentation on the environment in which 
appendages run, although I'm fairly certain that it's PASN, SRB and all the 
usual suspects. Wiki politics being what they are, it's a lot easier if I 
provide a citation for everything.



--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3

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Re: JES2 Policies

2020-11-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
Well, if I had to use account numbers for such purposes I would control it 
through RACF profiles. And, no, I would not run a job in the wrong job class if 
validation failed.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Jesse 1 Robinson [jesse1.robin...@sce.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 3:04 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Policies

In a previous life at the late great Security Pacific, we an *elaborate* scheme 
based on account numbers. Even the job name was generated from account number. 
To control all this, we had a VSAM file containing all valid account numbers 
along with indications of who could submit jobs with each number. An array of 
JES2 and SMF exits were employed to make all this work. At the end of the year, 
account numbers were used for chargeback to respective departments for resource 
usage.

There is no way in h*ll I would recommend this complex scheme for a modern 
shop. But yes, with enough time and $$, it can be done.

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Lizette Koehler
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 10:53 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: JES2 Policies

*** EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when opening links or attachments ***

Initial Request:
The current goal is to change a job's class or service class depending on 
certain values in the accounting information.

It also seems to me that a JCL tool, Like JCLPLUS could put rules into JCL 
Scanning and force users to adhere to a standard.  But that would mean you have 
a Source management system that is used to deploy Jobs to various systems.

It could have rules that say, if Account Code is this, then the job should have 
Service Class STCLOW  and CLASS X


Lizette


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Allan Staller
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:35 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Policies

Wouldn't RACF jobclass controls be more appropriate?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Joe 
Monk
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 10:31 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Policies

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

Radoslaw,

I think what the OP is really saying is that certain accounts should be 
restricted from certain jobclasses i.e. DEV cant use PROD jobclasses. So, if 
they code a CLASS=X, but the  account info says  that they dont have access to 
CLASS=X, then dump the job.

OP: This has been around a long time, and is very mature...

Joe

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 8:20 AM R.S.  wrote:

> W dniu 04.11.2020 o 13:10, Gadi Ben-Avi pisze:
> > Hi,
> > I've started looking into JES2 Policies.
> >
> > The current goal is to change a job's class or service class
> > depending
> on certain values in the accounting information.
> > >From reading the manual, it seems that this is possible.
> >
> > Has anyone done something like this?
> > Is there a way to debug these policies?
> >
> > Is this feature mature enough to use?
>
> I dare to disagree ...with your goal. More precisely I disagree with
> your presentation of the goal.
> Does it really have to depend on account information? Why?
>
> That means user has to code something in the jobcard, in the first
> positional. So he may code CLASS= keyword as well, can't he?
> Maybe your accnt infor is already somehowe controlled (my guess, lack
> of information). However jobclass can be RACF-controlled.
> And this is quite mature way to control job classes and (indirectly)
> service classes.
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland

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Re: JES2 Policies

2020-11-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
While I am always on the lookout for new features that allow replacing local 
mods with exits and replacing exits with parameters, sometimes the new way is 
more work or harder to maintain. You have to carve the bird at the joint. 

The advantage of a program product is that someone else does the maintenance. 
The disadvantage of a program product is also that someone else does the 
maintenance. If the vendor doesn't have the same priorities that you do, or 
worse, drops the product, then you're out on a limb. You have to look at the 
trade-offs and decide what makes sense for your shop.

That said:
"Now these are the Laws of the Jungle, and many and mighty are they;
But the head and the hoof of the Law and the haunch and the hump is — " 
document.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Lizette Koehler [stars...@mindspring.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 1:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Policies

I have to put in one small comment (well maybe a couple)

Start Rant\

First, look  at z/OSEM by Trident Software.  It does everything you want and 
more.   And if you consider this product, that is what you are trying to 
create.  If the process you want to build is like z/OSEM it should be easy.  
But it requires a high level of assembler coding expertise.  And if it were 
easy, there would not be a product like z/OSEM to do it.  All shops could do it 
with their eyes close.

When you start putting in lots of exits and IF THIS / THEN THAT logic into JES2 
or z/OS you will find your processing will have to be constantly reviewed for 
the "exceptions"

>From my view (and I do not know your shop so take this with a grain of salt)

Either you let the system run in a vanilla process or you will spend many man 
(or woman) hours in updating the code you want to implement with upgrades or 
fixes.  IBM will try hard to make sure exits are less impacted by changes, but 
it cannot be guaranteed.

Scenario:  The exits are in and working.  Now you want to upgrade to the next 
level of z/OS - how much time will you dedicate to validating  these exits and 
ensure they work as expected?  Who can support these exits once the person that 
wrote them are gone?

I know companies will prefer to have someone write code rather than buy a 
product.  However, once SYSPROG1 writes assembler routines to do specific 
functions, then what happens when that person leaves and there is no one to 
manage/support those exits in Assembler.

/End of Rant

Note:  Here are some products that might help
Trident Software z/OSEM
DTS Software  EasyExit

I worked in a shop with over 500 exits in JES2/zOS/Vtam etc...   Each upgrade 
took longer to do - basically do to validation of the code.  One upgrade we 
decided to reduce that down and let the system perform its own functions.  Went 
down to 30 exits and the systems worked just fine and upgrade times were faster.


Lizette

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of R.S.
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 10:45 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Policies

First, I still disagree to keep prod and dev on same system. However this is 
different topic.
Second, in your scenario user can put wrong class, but system automagically 
recognize it using ACCNT field.
So - we assume possibility of user mistake in the class coding, but we rely on 
ACCNT field. Why? Is the field protected from mistakes? How?
I don't see any sense here, I'm sorry. When we allow user to use two classes 
but one is for "better" jobs, and the second for "worse" jobs - in fact we stil 
allow user to decide. Or make a mistake.

For simple control of job classes and service classes (that was in the
question) it is enough to use standard RACF profiles. Why to to complicate it?

In fact majority of discussion is based on some assumptions, not real and 
clearly presented needs. That's why I wrote provocating words in my previous 
message (however no offence intended). Just to encourage OP to better 
explanation.

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 04.11.2020 o 17:30, Joe Monk pisze:
> Radoslaw,
>
> I think what the OP is really saying is that certain accounts should be
> restricted from certain jobclasses i.e. DEV cant use PROD jobclasses. So,
> if they code a CLASS=X, but the  account info says  that they dont have
> access to CLASS=X, then dump the job.
>
> OP: This has been around a long time, and is very mature...
>
> Joe
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 8:20 AM R.S.  wrote:
>
>> W dniu 04.11.2020 o 13:10, Gadi Ben-Avi pisze:
>>> Hi,
>>> I've started looking into JES2 Policies.
>>>
>>> The current goal is to change a job's class or service class depending
>> on certain values i

Re: SMPE holddata comparing 2 different CSIs

2020-11-04 Thread Seymour J Metz
Comparing the applied service makes sense; comparing the holddata does not. You 
should always receive the most current holddata.

Chapter 16. The REPORT CROSSZONE command


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Giannelli [billgianne...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:35 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SMPE holddata comparing 2 different CSIs

We have software at 2 different maintenance levels, with separate CSIs and 
zones.
Is there a report I can run to compare the maintenance levels and get the 
holddata needed for the "higher level" maintenance?
I hope my question makes sense.
thanks
Bill

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Re: SDSF NO DATA IN DATA SETS while on the same system

2020-11-03 Thread Seymour J Metz
SDSF used to behave differently depending on what command you used to get to 
the dataset.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2020 11:29 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: SDSF NO DATA IN DATA SETS while on the same system

On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 09:33:04 -0600, Carmen Vitullo wrote:
>
>Brian try using the SDSF primary command 'INPUT ON' first some address spaces 
>will show records, but will not display for some reason.
>
It has been my experience that instream ("SYSIN"; input) data sets
appear empty in SDSF until a job step actually opens or reads them.

I don't know whether this is WAD.

-- gil

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Re: REXX: ADDRESS ISPEXEC failing with rc = -3

2020-10-31 Thread Seymour J Metz
> Is Lloyd posting on BITNET 

ITYM the news group bit.listserv.ibm-main; does BITNET even exist these days?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2020 11:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: REXX: ADDRESS ISPEXEC failing with rc = -3

On Fri, 30 Oct 2020 20:34:42 -0400, Tom Conley wrote:

>On 10/30/2020 7:13 PM, lloyd christensen wrote:
>> Thanks, took that plus hours of cursing and trying different stuff. Finally 
>> got a different IKJEFTxx member and it worked. Lots of problems with it 
>> wanting to allocate the same profile I was logged on with, and aggravation 
>> with allocation issues for the profile and ISPFILE. Eventually got it though.
>>
Is Lloyd posting on BITNET where many of us can't see his questions, but
only your replies?

>If you don't care about saving anything in the profile, allocate a temp
>PDS dataset with a small allocation for ISPPROF.  Same for any other
>output files you don't care about saving.
>
+1
I do that regularly, not only to avoid ENQ conflicts but also in code for
general consumption where I want to control the environment and not
have it muddled by individual users' idiosyncratic profiles.

Likewise, any libraries specific to interactive operation such as panels
can be omitted, DUMMY, or DISP=(NEW,DELETE) in batch operations.

Unless the OP is heavily invested in ISPF craft this seems like something
that might be done more simply in pure Rexx with an IRXJCL step, shedding
the burden of ISPF and all its libraries.

Of course, I'd do such a chore in a POSIX shell script invoked by BPXBATCH,
AOPBATCH, BPXWUNIX, or COZBATCH.  Rexx has no instream data sets of
its own (but JCL SYSINs might suffice.)  Shell here-documents provide a
combination of symbol substitution and command substitution not available
with SYSIN DD DATA,SYMBOLS=...

I truly miss command substitution in JCL.

-- gil

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Re: Smart hyphens smart!

2020-10-28 Thread Seymour J Metz
They call them smart hyphens because someone is guarantied to smart when they 
are covertly used. A gentleman name Dante wrote a comedy about people who 
deploy such code. It's as bad as the auto-defect code that automatically and 
silently changes correct words to incorrect, and ludicrous, words. PARM= 
parameter anybody?


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2020 3:44 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Smart hyphens smart!

In
   
https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.bpxa500/r4paxsh.htm

each option is shown as being introduced by an en-dash, x'e2 80 93'
rather than the corrct hyphen, x'2d'.  This is a disservice to
programmers who choose to copy-and-paste code from the reference
materials to commands they are composing.

In my case, I was frustrated when I tried "Find in Page" for "-c"
only to discover it needs to be "–c" (en-dash rather than hyphen.)
The similar appearance is inexcusably deceptive.

RCF submitted.  The problem does not appear in the PDF.

This may be worse than smart quotes, the bane of copy-and-paste
code examples, because the appearance is more similar.

-- gil

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